Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 100
Copyright (C) HIX
1994-10-10
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 CITIZENSHIP (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: THe vote for overseas Hungarians (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Roma in CR and Hungary (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Changes in Hungary (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)

+ - CITIZENSHIP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

<I read an article in March in Hungary about the current citizenship laws and
<here is what they said:
<Everybody who has any Hungarian ancestry is a Hungarian citizen by default.
<This law is fairly similar to the corresponding law in Germany.

Istvan,
     So if I understand you correctly, since my father was born in Budapest, I
technically have hungarian citizenship?  Is this right?  Is there not some
sort of language requirement (I speak very little Hungarian)?  Would you still
have that article?  Anybody know where I could look into this, how could I get
a Hungarian passport ect;? I already have a French and an American passport,
is it legal to have three?  very interesting....marc
+ - Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > "H. MARC"
> writes:
>
><I read an article in March in Hungary about the current citizenship laws and
><here is what they said:
><Everybody who has any Hungarian ancestry is a Hungarian citizen by default.
><This law is fairly similar to the corresponding law in Germany.
>
>Istvan,
>     So if I understand you correctly, since my father was born in Budapest, I
>technically have hungarian citizenship?  Is this right?  Is there not some
>sort of language requirement (I speak very little Hungarian)?  Would you still
>have that article?  Anybody know where I could look into this, how could I get
>a Hungarian passport ect;? I already have a French and an American passport,
>is it legal to have three?  very interesting....marc

Some time ago I was asking about the same thing (my mother beeing Hungarian)
and was told that I am by default a Hungarian (cool!), but before I get a
passport I just need to know something...will I be drafted to the Hungarian
army to do some kind of military service ? (I'm 22), someone told me that
they don't draft people over the age of 26, is this true ? Should I wait
a few years and then claim my citizenship ? (I do NOT want to be a Hungarian
soldier!)
Thanks for any info...

/stefan
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+ - Re: THe vote for overseas Hungarians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tibor Asztalos wrote:

>George Antony wrote:
>>As for the broader issue, I think it is fair to let only those to vote
>>who are willing to live with the consequences of their vote, that is,
>>in Hungary rather than kibitzing from across the ocean.  Note that this
>>excludes me too.


> You are right in principle. I agree. But

> Nobody asked me in May about my life.
> Do I want to REMAIN in Hungary after the election or not?
> In principle I can go and remain in other country.
> I could kibitzing from across the ocean.

> Did anyboby ask those who live abroad any question about their
> intention to return?

Well, I suppose one could set such conditions for eligibility for voting,
only it would neither be cheap nor very effective: personal conditions
can change, and nobody could be forced to stay where they said they would.

In general, the country of permanent residence is as good an indicator of
one's country of main interest, and a predictor of the country of residence
a few years hence, as any.

George Antony

PS.  For those who are counting the examples of countries allowing emigree
     citizens to vote: chalk up rump Yugoslavia too.  I supppose, treating
     Serbia and Montenegro as two would improve the statistics further.
     If really after numbers, one could list Serbian Krajina and the Bosnian
     Serb Republic also: they have been voting in Sydney on every referendum
     that was held recently.
+ - Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Pannon wrote:

>As far as I know most if not all democratic countries, including the US,
>allow their citizens abroad to vote.  Among the former Communist Bloc
>countries Poland and Romania also does.

I would consider at least Poland as a democratic country nowadays.  As for
other 'pro' examples, one can count in just about every state and statelet
in the former Yugoslavia.  I suppose, as long as Hungary only follows them
in this respect it's all right.

>George's disdain for such practices sounds good on the surface, but if
>followed consistently, it would also apply to in-country citizens on
>government dole.  What is to restrain them to vote on politicians taxing
>the productive citizens to oblivion so they could get more benefits for
>themselves?

It is the free choice of the electors in a community to extend suffrage
as wide as they please.  In the days of the numerus clausus, only the
'productive' citizens had the vote.

>BTW, George was also off the mark blaming Antall's coalition government
>for the present situation.  True, they were then the majority,
>however, the election law requires 2/3 majority which Antall never had.

True, Antall did not have a 2/3 majority.  However, there were acts of
parliament passed that required such a majority.  If the government
had felt strongly enough about this issue, it could have submitted it
to parliament.  Getting the additional votes needed would have involved
some tradeoffs as it does in such situations in all democratic countries:
it is all a matter of priorities.  Giving overseas Hungarians the vote
obviously was not a high-enough priority for the previous coalition to
give grounds on other issues for its acceptance in parliament.

>analysis, be worth more than the votes themselves.  As it is now, more
>and more Hungarians I talk to here come to the conclusion that all our
>kins in Hungary want from us is our MONEY and they think they did their
>good deed by making us feel good about ourselves when we gave that money.

This is a rather unfortunate generalization, especially if by this you
mean handouts.  I think, what Hungary needs most is INVESTMENT, not
charity, and this is something that benefits both parties.

George Antony
+ - Re: Roma in CR and Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hugh Agnew wrote:
>It's all a part of the
>Czech version of Vergangenheitsbewaeltigung, a process only partially finished
.
>And possibly also in Hungary?

I think Hungary is very close to West Germany in facing her past.

My knowledge of history texts is limited to those under the past regime, but
the theme of past misdeeds was hammered hard, complete with details of
atricities committed by the Hungarian Army in Yugoslavia and the role of
Hungarians in the Endloesung.  The phrase "Hitler's last ally" was used to refe
r
to Hungary often, of course to a great extent to show the Horthy regime in the
worst possible light.

In all, this education cum brainwashing had positive effects: witness the vote
nationalists get in Hungary v. that in  every neighbouring country.  Hungary is
on par with Germany, all the neighbours of Hungary are a worry, now even
including Austria that never decided if she was a villain or a victim.

George Antony
+ - Re: Changes in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

[no name given] wrote:
>Csurka is back to what he has always been. Csurka is a writer, with
>his head clearly thinking, his mouth articulately expressing his views

I suppose here we differ.  I like his plays, but I think that his
political polemics are a bombastic parody of the Hungarian language
and constitute just another confused contribution to the world
literature on conspiracy theories.  The voters in Hungary seem to
agree with this.

>and -most importantly- his patriotic heart being committed to his
>nation and to his country.

I wish his brains were in the same condition as his heart, then we
may have a few good plays more.

>The "digest" below, a"translation" (compression, rather) of his recent
>writing, which circulates on the Internet lately, but does not do
>justicy to his original style, clearly shows that Csurka is a patriot who
>had been adroitly framed as an "extremist" by those who like
>Hungary but dislike Hungarians. (This is not so unusual, remember
>the saying "France is a marvelleous country - except the French").

And, presumably, you did not put your name to the above article because they
are after you too.  My condolences.

George Antony
+ - Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Marc asks on 9-Oct-94 how to get a Hungarian passport, etc.--

Some months ago several people posted information on applying formally for
Hungarian citizenship under conditions of Hungarian ancestry.  I will post
the info if I haven't deleted it.  But it should also be available through the
list archive.  However, some knowledgeable person will have to provide info
on accessing *that*.

Udv.,
Be'la


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