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1 Mr.Tony Pace's contributions (sorry) (mind)  222 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Mr.Tony Pace's contributions (sorry) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The following text is about Mr. Tony Pace's contributions. It's for
me a disagreeable and painful task as to have to deal again with his
low tricks and as this introduction indicates, it's not a pleasant
reading. If you decide to continue reading below this, please don't
complain, you have been warned.

For a quick reference, the key elements are: Mr. Tony Pace performs
an attack on integrity of a scholar who had the misfortune that his
contribution has been commented in a way the "good Slovak nationalist"
disagrees with.

Let's stress the fact that Mr. Tony Pace's attack has not been directed
against the comment regarding the original contribution:

>"No prosim...ved som to vravel...(zeby aj toto bol nejaky cechofil)??"

>[Yes please... I said it... (perhaps yet an another Czechophile)??
  - Approximative translation by RK 28 June 95.
    Slovak is one of these rare languages where "No" means "Yes" ;-]

Instead, the target of Mr. Tony Pace's aggression was the PERSON of the
original contributor in his usual way: So you say the opinion of this
man is a reference? Down with your reference!

Let's remark that Mr. Tony Pace failed to address any single point
contained in the original contribution. Let's remark the ferocity,
gratuitous, purely personal character, speculative suspicion, and lack
of any evidence in the key elements of the attack:

>Neviem, ale zda sa, ze nema vela chute diskutovat tu, iba na inych forach,
>a pokial sa diskusia rozviedla tu, pripada to byt len pokus o jej rozprasenie

>[I don't know, but it seems, that he doesn't have much taste to discuss here,
>only on other forums, and since the discussion developed here, it would appear
>to be merely an attempt toward its dispersion. - Mr. Tony Pace's own
>                                         translation of 16 June 1995]

Let's also remark that in the Tony Pace's contribution, all the
reference to the original contributor's text has been deleted and only
the Slovak comment is quoted. For a person who does not understand
Slovak, it therefore becomes impossible to react to this aggression
and even get aware of. In this sense, it's a mere semi-anonymous attack.
Really a progress, indeed, compared to previous Mr. Tony Pace's

Haveing myself made the experience of being the target of Mr. Tony
Pace's childish style personal attacks (and much worse), I find it
increasingly disturbing as to assist to such manners again and again.
After all, Slovak-L is claimed to be a forum of discussion of Slovak
issues, and theoretically it's not expected someone will jump on
scientists discussing here like a pittbull on a mailman.

When people get aggressed in such a manner, I consider to be of my
obligation to offer them my help, be it at least by allowing them
to have equal chances with their aggressor. It's in that sense, in
order to offer the victim (and the rest of the world) a possibility
to assess the phenomenon, as a public service, I made a translation of
the Slovak text into English, which provoked the following reaction from
Mr. Tony Pace (Message-Id: > ):

 The "disinformation" aspects of the translation are denoted with an "^".
 The literal translation follows the Mr. Kanala's spin-doctored translation.

>"I don't know but it seems he has no much envy to discuss here, only on
>others forums, and if the discussion has developed here, it seems to be
>only an attempt to vaporize it."

I don't know, but it seems, that he doesn't have much taste to discuss here,
only on other forums, and since the discussion developed here, it would appear
to be merely an attempt toward its dispersion.( the discussion's dispersion ).

>So far Mr. Tony Pace. I am sure his scientific authority will only grow

Do not confuse Mr. Kanala's spin-doctored translations and various so-called
"scientific" ad-hominem directed towards the author with "scientific" activity.

So far Mr. Tony Pace.

It happens that the exact translation into French would be using the
expression "l'envie de discuter ici", which I transposed to English as
"envy", which word has only one single meaning compared to French
multipurpose word.

The whole impressive construction of insinuendos Mr Tony Pace built
seems to be based upon this imprecise translation. Trying to invalidate
a statement by attacking a single irrelevant detail is an old proven
tactics on Slovak-L. Let's reader make his own opinion.

Regarding the "scientificity" of contributions, again, one can only be
glad that even Mr. Tony Pace, who obviously does not even know what
epistemology really means, is using that criterion instead of usual
extreme nationalist scale of hate. Again, let's reader make his own

In his following contributions under various subjects, Mr. Tony Pace
tried to disculpe his manners by declaring that he knew in advance that
his victim understands Slovak. I don't doubt about sincerity of this
Mr. Tony Pace's declaration, because it would be an equivalent of
considering him to be a pathologic liar and would be contrary to all
evidence of his bright record so far. I only would like to remark that
myself, I did not know the gentleman could defend himself in Slovak,
otherwise I would let him doing so, should he decide himself to do so.

It's interesting to remark that for Mr. Tony Pace, that difference means
that his deed was perfectly justified, as implies his another thoughtful
finding, that an injustice is being done on him, yes, HIM, as he is
being blamed for writing in Slovak, while the remark of the other
contributor, the one Mr. Tony Pace reacted to, was also in Slovak and
not subject to any flames. It seems to escape to Mr. Tony Pace's ability
to understand that there is a difference between a neutral comment and a
ruthless attack on the contributor's integrity. After all, considering
the regular show he is producing here, it might be THE normal way of
communication at the Ford Motor Company Research Laboratories...
Rather interesting. Rather sad.

Still to this topic, I would like to add that I had problems to find all
Mr. Tony Pace's recent contributions in the newsreader, but the mailing
list Slovak-L showed to be a more complete source. Seems there are
intermittent problems with the news/mail gateway. Fortunately, I have
subscribed to the Slovak-L also as recipient of the mailing list. There
also is a third source, the Slovak-L list archives, but I am affraid
there is no guarantee it contains all the articles.

Finally, a brief summary of several previous events that might be of
some relevance to this matter (these are FACTS and not subject to a

Last Summer, I have been publicly accused by Mr. Tony Pace to be the
person contributing under pseudonyme >,
Applications Manager, who used to sign his contributions to Hungary list
as Apponyi, and to have falsified a message as if it came from a third
person. I know the identity of the impostor, it's pretty obvious.
Applications Manager performed his opus for a long time until he did
the final faux pas and people openly started to call him Tony Pace.
No explanation offered neither from the Applications Manager at the
Ford Motor Co. nor from Mr. Tony Pace himself.

I have not said the Applications Manager is Mr. Tony Pace, only that
I know the identity of the impostor and that it's not me, which fact
I have proven with headers of an E-mail message that the Application
Manager sent me. Later, I have learned that what happened was that
within a hour or two, on 30 August 1994, an anonymous user
"" sent out an E-mail to addresses of some of my
colleagues the following text:

~Roman Kanala es un AIDS patient
~  Universite de Geneve
~    Economie Commerciale et Industrielle

Let's remark the bad French mixed with English. Let's remark the hate
and shortcut reaction of a psychically destabilized person. Let's remark
the timing (coincides with publication of proof that the impostor comes
from Ford). Let's remark the knowledge how to find addresses.

This time, we see an act that's not only a violation of net etiquette
and of all rules of civilized behaviour, but also of the law. Let's
recall that, should the information be true, informing about such fact
would constitute a delict of diffamation. But the information is of
course false: I enjoy to be in excellent health and donated my blood
over 25 times. Thus the act constitutes a crime: it's a qualified act
of calumny. As a victim, it's on me to decide whether I file a criminal
suit against an unknown perpetrator. So far, I didn't do so, but Mr.
Tony Pace seems to want me to change my mind.

If the perpetrator hoped to compromise me among my colleagues, he was
wrong. After his dirty act, I have experienced a moving attention from
my colleagues that I did not understand until I learned the reason of
their increasingly human attitude. When I explained what's going on,
we laughed for a while. What else to do in face of such amount of dirt ?
One of my colleagues commented the story as "Mais quel sale con", which
words I prefer not to translate, while an another one reacted "and I
thought that all the crash tests in motor makers' labs are done with
figurines - humans may get brain damaged..."

I am affraid people who learned about the story, should they consider
to buy a Ford car a day, will have they purchase decision influenced...

The story does not stop there: later, I have learned that E-mail
messages with forged headers have been sent out and even got an angry
reply from a netter to an E-mail message that I never sent. I got an
echo also about other similar smear acts as well.

Several times, Mr. Tony Pace has been warned that his tricks are
illegal. Last time, the listowner of Slovak-l has been warned about the
possibility of legal recourse and asked to take a position regarding the
acts of Mr. Tony Pace. I haven't noticed any followup action from the
listowner of Slovak-L.

I am crossposting this message to Slovak-L list, as the major part Mr.
Tony Pace's dirty tricks have been performed here, to Hungary list,
where the Applications Manager of Ford Motor Company started his carreer
of falsificator, and to soc.culture.czecho-slovak newsgroup, where an
another anonymous username came after the August dirty trick to publish
texts from Mr. Tony Pace's rich treasury of anti-Magyar hate quotations.

Slovak-L is claimed to be a scholarly oriented list. It can be read as a
newsgroup bit.listserv.slovak-l or subscribed to as 
Hungary is a scholarly oriented discussion list that can be read as a
newsgroup bit.listserv.hungary or subscribed to as .
Soc.culture.czecho-slovak is a newsgroup.

Sorry for the inconvenience, but I believe this warning to be a public
service. Studying the presented specimen is an exceptionally rare
opportunity to understand the roots of the present Slovak tragedy.

Roman Kanala

Disclaimer: All the above showed opinions are strictly mine private
ones and I am the sole responsible for them. The only link to the
University of Geneva is that the University is my Internet provider,
like the PTT are my phone and mail provider.
Copyright (C) 1995 by Roman Kanala, except portions owned by others.
All right reserved, worldwide.