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1 Re: Neszvadba (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
2 In search of the Mag(y)ar (?) tribe. (mind)  122 sor     (cikkei)
3 Maly Gyres (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Keyser Soze (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
5 seek assistant/translator in Budapest (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: 1880s map of Hungary (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
7 Name search: Horvath and Paar (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Name search: Horvath and Paar (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Neszvadba (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hugh Agnew writes about the origins of the surname "Neszvadba":

> It's most likely Slavic in origin (there's a reasonably well-known Czech
> author of science fiction named Josef Nesvadba, for example, which would
> be pronounced exactly like the Hungarian Neszvadba).

"Neszvadba" meaning "wedding-less" may possibly refer to an out of wedlock
birth, centuries ago.  Negations built into Slavic surnames are indeed
quite common: there is a Moscow TV reporter named Nevzorov ("Sightless"),
there is Tolstoy's hero Nekhlyudov in Resurrection, and there is Nekrasov
the poet.  This kind of thing seems less common in non-Slavic languages,
although there is of course Professor Unrath (of Blue Angel fame) in German,
and in the U.S. one runs into an occasional Loveless (probably a corruption
of "Lovelace").

In Hungarian one rarely finds negated surnames.  The one example that comes
to mind is Bornemissza, meaning one who abstains from wine, a historic
surname going back many centuries.  Perhaps the best known member of the
clan is Peter Bornemissza, a fiery 16th century preacher, who must have
anticipated the antics of the Siliconvalley Gang when he said, in the
pungent no-nonsense language of the era: "Ha szarral harcolsz, ha
megbirod is, ha megbir is, szaros leszesz."  Words to live by.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - In search of the Mag(y)ar (?) tribe. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


I couldn't find the article at home, so I e-mailed Jim Michaels at the Budapest
Sun to see if he had the article. This is the follow up article, but is just as
fascinating. Enjoy!!!

Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com
To: John_Czifra @ shi.com (John Czifra) @ Internet
cc:  (bcc: John Czifra/SHI)
From: 100275.456 @ compuserve.com (JIM MICHAELS) @ Internet @ WORLDCOM
Date: 01/05/96 04:25:57 AM CST
Subject: Re: Looking for article.

Dear Mr. Czifra,

The following is the text from the article you mentioned.  This was a followup
to an earlier article before the expedition left for Tibet.  This article
appeared in Issue 142, vol.3, Nov. 30-Dec.6, and was wrtitten by Todd Heth.  If
you need the original article or something else, let me know.


Craig Coulter
Systems Administrator
The Budapest Sun

A primitive tribe of people in the remote reaches of western Nepal could hold
some cultural connections to ancient Hungarians.
A trio of documentary journalists and amateur Hungarian anthropologists returne
earlier this month from the Asian country, where they met a tribe that may be
connected to ancient Magyars.
The team gathered countless bits of information, film and audio tapes to
document the obscure tribe that lives at the base of the Himalayas in an
isolated, undeveloped region of Asia. The name of this tribe, Magar, differs by
only one letter from the Hungarian word for the Hungarian people, which is
"We don't know yet if there's a connection (to Hungarians)," said Bela Kunckel,
a 25-year-old ethnic Hungarian from Venezuela who went on the trip.
"We only have the facts now of what we gathered and saw," he said. "The next
step is to consult experts everywhere to see if there's enough evidence to show
a connection."
The trip was organized by Ferenc Lovass, who works for Hungarian state
television and owns a private production studio. Lovass, 52, formed a foundatio
to help support research on the possible link. For 20 years he has planned to
visit the area, ever since he heard about the possible Hungarian connection.
But political difficulties in Hungary and Nepal have kept him from making his
trip any earlier. For many years Hungarians learned imposed, historical theorie
about their ethnic origins that were advocated during communism. But Lovass
hopes the trip and its findings will spark an interest in Hungarian roots.
"Our main aim is to raise interest from specialists in this research," Lovass
In addition to their recent three-week field study of the Magar people, the
group also made contacts with specialists in the culture, language and
anthropology of Magars.
"The biggest problem now is how to process all the information," Kunckel said.
Lovass' group trekked four days on foot from the closest road to villages calle
Bara-Magarant, Gusbang and Uwa with amateur guides who came from the region.
They traveled to an area called the Rolpa district of Nepal, which is
essentially sealed off from civilization by rugged terrain. The Magar people ar
isolated from the rest of Nepal by geographical, cultural and political
"(The tribes) live like people did back in the Middle Ages or even before," sai
Bode Sarolta, the third member of the team.
The Magars are a nomadic people. During the monsoon season, they herd cattle in
the hills. In the dry season they live in lowland villages.
There is very little influence from the surrounding Hindu and Buddhist cultures
and the people still speak Magar exclusively.
Perhaps the strongest evidence of a Hungarian connection is the similar
tradition of erecting carved wooden markers on graves. Lovass said they are
strikingly similar to the kopjafa still used in Transylvania. There are no othe
known cultures with the same tradition. Despite hard ground, Magars also bury
rather than burn their dead, as surrounding cultures do.
And their mythology about a bird called gurul is similar to Hungarian mythology
about a bird called turul. The myths describe how each culture began.
Linguistically, there also may be some similarities. The Magars use the words
ide, meaning "to here;" oda, meaning "to there;" and neki, meaning "to or for
him, her or it." The Hungarian words are the same.
The Magars and Hungarians also pronounce the letter combination "ng" the same
And in a region where all the surrounding cultures eat rice, the Magars grow
corn, as did the Hungarians.
"They could be close relatives of our ancestors or just cultural neighbors,"
Kunckel said.
One theory about the ancestral connection is that the ancient Hungarian tribes
split when the Tibetan plateaus dried up. One tribe may have gone south to Nepa
and the other went north toward Mongolia and eventually Siberia, from where the
Hungarians are believed to have migrated.
"It is very possible that (Magars) are ancestral cousins (of the Hungarians)
from the Tibetan plateau," Lovass said.
He suggested researchers could perform DNA testing in the future to establish i
there is any genetic connection, although he is skeptical that there will be an
exact link.
The Nepalese and Magars have already begun searching for information about thei
own roots after living under repressive dictators until a little more than a
year ago. They have shown an intense interest in the Hungarian connection.
Some researchers in Nepal asked for more information and contacts in Europe to
further explore their roots. Lovass, who has studied the possible connection
since the 1960s, is hoping Hungarians will have the same enthusiasm for their
own roots.
The research foundation plans to release a documentary film or publication by
next year, which is the 1,100th anniversary of Hungarian settlement in Europe.
Lovass and his colleagues want to garner financial support for further research
"In modern times, Hungarians have always wanted to go beyond the theories about
the Finno-Ugric people of Siberia being our ancestors to find out more about ou
roots," Sarolta said. "Now we have a good chance."
+ - Maly Gyres (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Marianne,

I don't have a detailed 1880 map of Greater Hungary, but I have a 1910
Hungarian census. The problem here is that the place names are given in
Hungarian and therefore I had to find a place which resembled to Maly Gyres
in Hungarian. Maly means "Kis," that is, "Small," in Hungarian.

I did find a place name very similar to Maly Gyres--Kisge'res, in
Zemple'n/Zemplin (Slovaks! correct spelling?) County. The only problem with
it that in 1910 it was inhabited by Hungarians, not Slovaks.

Perhaps our Slovak friends could help.

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Keyser Soze (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

the Keyser Soze in the movie was Turkish; TRy posting to that group.
John Uhlemann
+ - seek assistant/translator in Budapest (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I will be in Budapest from Jan 22 to Jan 27. I am looking for someone to
assist me in translating and establishing appointments. You should speak
fluent Hungarian and English. I am doing research on Budapest's health
care system. I can pay up to USD $15 per day.

I would prefer someone who has contacts with hospitals and doctors, but
this is not a requirement. If you are interested, please e-mail me with
information about yourself.
+ - Re: 1880s map of Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

What is the Hungarian name of Maly Gyres?
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
+ - Name search: Horvath and Paar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I'm interested in finding out anything about the surnames Horvath or Paar.. I
was told that Horvath is a Hungarian name for a person from Croatia. Also,
any information about a small village in, I believe, nortwest Hungary near
Austria called Kundorfa or perhaps Kondorfa.  Any information regarding
genealogical records in that area would be very appreciated too.
+ - Re: Name search: Horvath and Paar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

As far as I know quite a few people from Croatia have settled in the
mentioned area (prob. 18th Century). I once did some on site genealogical
research in a village called Horvathkimle, in the Hegyeshalom area. All the
names in the R-C church books seemed slavic.
If you want to do genealogical research:
-go to the villages yourself (or write: you might get surprised)
or, if this is too much of a trip
-go to the nearest Latter Day Saint Genealogical Centre in your area for
information (this is free, and might give you a lot of information).


>I'm interested in finding out anything about the surnames Horvath or Paar.. I
>was told that Horvath is a Hungarian name for a person from Croatia. Also,
>any information about a small village in, I believe, nortwest Hungary near
>Austria called Kundorfa or perhaps Kondorfa.  Any information regarding
>genealogical records in that area would be very appreciated too.


Klaas J.J. Wierenga, research fellow
MRC laboratories, Sickle Cell Unit
University of the West Indies
Kingston 7, Jamaica, West Indies

voice (H) 1-809-9272410, for fax: call first
voice (W) 1-809-9272471, fax (W) 1-809-9272984