|| 44 sor
||Re: Numerus..... (mind)
|| 23 sor
||Veget ert a helyszini szemle (mind)
|| 34 sor
||Re: Numerus..... (mind)
|| 22 sor
||By the year 2110 (mind)
|| 32 sor
||Romani Population in Europe (mind)
|| 48 sor
||Re: Kossuth monument (mind)
|| 21 sor
|+ - ||Gypsies (mind)
There is certainly great prejudice against Gypsies and not only in
Hungary but in the whole region. Don't quote me because I am not 100 percent
sure, but something like 70% of the population harbor anti-Gypsy feelings.
Here, depending on my own childhood remembrances I will try to shed
some light on the subject.
First, the prejudice and, let me add, fear of Gypsies are
transmitted from generation to generation. Although I don't specifically
remember of being frightened by my own parents, but one thing is sure: as a
child I was petrified of Gypsies! And believe me, I wasn't petrified of too
many things! As the matter of fact I was described later as absolutely
fearless who could always find answers to parental admonitions. One
particular encounter specifically remained with me. I was in fourth grade
and a short-cut to school led through a maze of houses which was known by
its German name as Durchhaus. One day, more than half way through the yard I
encountered a bunch of Gypsies: males, females, children, sitting in the
dirt of the yard. I was so afraid of them that I didn't dare to pass them
and instead turned around, went back all the way to the school, and took the
ordinary streets, which must have added another mile to my journey home, if
not more. Obviously, there had to be an all pervading culture which
instilled that kind of fear into children.
An earlier encounter is perhaps not as vivid in my memory but again
is surrounded by fear. The family is driving in the family car somewhere in
the Mecsek mountains. We stop and my father leads me to a Gypsy camp on the
side of the road. Perhaps he meant it to be an educational experience,
except I was petrified out of my mind.
Otherwise, I used to see Gypsies, selling wooden articles on the
market place. They were in traditional dresses, very often barefoot. I was
older by that time and I tried to act as if I simply didn't see them. And
one more encounter as a adult. During the summer of 1956 three of my
classmates spent a month in Pecs, working as library assistants in the
Baranya County Library. One weekend we went for a long exercursion in the
woods, along marked trails. Out of the blue suddenly there was a Gypsy camp
in front of us: huts on both sides of the trail. There was no choice but to
pass. We greeted them and they greeted us but otherwise they just stood
alongside the trail and watched. The four of us, four women, didn't find the
encounter very pleasant, especially in the middle of nowhere. All was OK but
we were all a bit shaken.
Today's Gypsies are, at least in my eyes, hardly distinguishable
from the rest of society, but I have been living in a country where one can
find all shades of color. They no longer dress differently, and I at least
couldn't pick them out of a crowd. And, of course, I no longer afraid of
them. But if my experiences are at all typical then the prejudice and fear
of Gypies must be quite imbedded in the minds and hearts of the population
and has been for some time. ESB
|+ - ||Re: Numerus..... (mind)
on Apr 3 13:12:04 EST 1997 in HUNGARY #958:
>At 06:07 PM 4/3/97 +0100, Miklos Hoffmann wrote, quoting me:
>>> And perhaps I should send you another piece of mail I received
>>You4d rather not. But that one is "just" a vulgar escalation
>>of the mutual hostile transactions spreading out on the lists.
> The piece of mail in question is not the one you saw. This was a
>piece of private correspondence from those people who often uttered "odious
>opinions" on the Forum. That was yesterda's fun mail. Today's fun mail was
>public and thank God the writer "repult."
Your last sentence escapes me. Could you please explain?
|+ - ||Veget ert a helyszini szemle (mind)
Lezárult a bős–nagymarosi szemle
Április közepén ismét Hágában találkoznak a pereskedő felek
Mind a hágai Nemzetközi Bíróság elnöke, mind a magyar
kormányfő méltatta a bős–nagymarosi helyszíni szemle
újszerűségét és tapasztalatait azon a fogadáson, amelyet
pénteken Horn Gyula adott a bírák tiszteletére.
A hágai Nemzetközi Bíróság tagjait a Parlament kupolacsarnokában
köszöntötte a magyar miniszterelnök, majd a gobelinteremben fogadást
adott. Ezen a kormány több tagja mellett képviseltette magát a
törvényhozás valamennyi frakciója. Horn Gyula kiemelte, hogy a hágai
testület történetében elöször került sor helyszíni szemlére. Kifejezte
reményét, hogy látogatásuk hozzájárul a jogállamiság erősítéséhez,
valamint a térség országai közötti együttműködéshez. Horn a Dunát
nemzeti kincsünknek, s egyúttal európai értéknek nevezte, amelynek „ha
az egyik partján valami történik, az a másik partra is kihat". Éppen ezért
a Duna partjai mentén élő népek szolidaritásának és
együttműködésének a jelképe – tette hozzá. Válaszában Stephen
Schwebel, a bíróság elnöke méltatta a munkakörülményeket, amelyek
közepette a testület mind magyar, mind pedig szlovák oldalon
vizsgálódásait folytathatta. Ugyancsak kiemelte a helyszíni tapasztalatok
súlyát, a szemle során feltett kérdéseikre kapott válaszok jelentőségét.
A találkozón részt vett a két peres fél hágai küldöttsége is, Peter
Tomka, illetve Szénási György vezetésével. Utóbbi a Népszabadság
kérdésére elégedetten szólt a terepszemléről, szerinte a látottak
meggyőzően támasztották alá a magyar érvelést.
A fogadást megelőzően a bírák a tervezett nagymarosi duzzasztómű
helyével és a lehetséges környezeti, ökológiai hatásokkal ismerkedtek
meg. Ezután a Szentendrei-szigetre utaztak, majd megtekintették a
kutakat Tahitótfaluban és Kisorosziban. Ott arról kaptak tájékoztatást,
hogy a nagymarosi duzzasztómű megépülése esetén milyen károk érték
volna a dunakanyari ivóvízbázist, amely jelentősen hozzájárul a magyar
|+ - ||Re: Numerus..... (mind)
At 06:11 AM 4/5/97 -0500, Ferenc Novak wrote:
>> The piece of mail in question is not the one you saw. This was a
>>piece of private correspondence from those people who often uttered "odious
>>opinions" on the Forum. That was yesterday's fun mail. Today's fun mail was
>>public and thank God the writer "repult."
>Your last sentence escapes me. Could you please explain?
Sure. Miklos and I both belong to a newly formed list launched by
HVG. The list has several interesting people on but at the same time a few
Hungarian university students got on the list who have been described by
those in the know as cyberpunks (cypersuhancok in Hungarian of sorts). These
guys are around 20 and extremely foul-mouthed. Extremely! They are really
juvenile and, according to one psychologist/sociologist on the list, are
simply attention-seeking. The man who heads the list found two of these guys
quite insufferable and threw them off the list, but, as it turned out, they
showed up again under different addresses. Eva
|+ - ||By the year 2110 (mind)
The Minority Rights Group 'Report No. 14' (1987), titled "Roma: Europe's
Gypsies", states the following:
"Nevertheless, the Hungarian authorities must be credited with tackling the
issues posed by the large Rom minority with realism. For a start, they are
among the few in Europe who admit to the true number of Roma. A population
study has revealed that the size of the Rom community doubles every twenty
to thirty years. While the general population has a zero grouth, the
number of Roma is likely to reach 1.5 million within forty years.
Meanwhile, fewer than 15 per cent have skilled jobs and less than 5 per
cent of those employed are engaged in the professions. Life expectancy for
Roma remains fifteen years lower than the average. Thousands of families
have been housed in recent years but up to 100,000 Roma still inhabit
If these numbers stay the same for the next 100 years, then, by the year
2110, Magyars will be a minority in Hungary. And in 200 years from now,
Magyars will be a very small minority. How would the Gypsies treat the
Magyars? Would they treat us with the same kindness and generosity that we
did? Would we get our just deserts?
N'avlom ke tumende
o maro te mangel.
Avlom ke temende
kam man pativ te den.
I did not come to you
to beg for bread.
I came to you
to demand respect.
|+ - ||Romani Population in Europe (mind)
Distributed around the world, outside India, are an estimated ten million
Roma. Half live in Europe, especially in south-east Europe.
The 1986 Romani population in Europe are based on available census figures
and previous estimates (taking into account high birth rate) and including
associated sedentary and nomadic groups:
Romani % of Romani
Population in Country pop.
Yugoslavia 850,000 3.73
Romania 760,000 3.35
Spain 745,000 1.95
Hungary 560,000 5.21
Turkey 545,000 1.09
U.S.S.R. 530,000 0.19
Bulgaria 475,000 5.3
Czechoslovakia 410,000 2.66
France 260,000 0.47
Greece 140,000 1.14
Italy 120,000 0.21
Portugal 105,000 1.05
U.K. 90,000 0.16
West Germany 84,000 0.14
Albania 80,000 2.75
Poland 70,000 0.19
Netherlands 40,000 0.28
Switzerland 35,000 0.54
Belgium 20,000 0.2
Austria 19,000 0.01
Ireland 18,000 0.53
Sweden 15,000 0.18
Finland 8,000 0.16
Norway 5,000 0.12
Denmark 4,500 0.09
East Germany 2,500 0.01
Total 5,991,000 0.74
Information taken from The Minority Rights Group, Report No.14, "Roma:
Europe's Gypsies", by Grattan Puxon.
No democracy can long survive which does not accept as fundamental to its
very existence the recognition of the rights of minorities.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
|+ - ||Re: Kossuth monument (mind)
. I wonder why the New
>York City monument requires renovation.
I have asked the same question. The New York Hungarians seem to agree that
work is needed. Most of the expenses are for the plaza, the garden, the
pavement. The statue itself but a small portion of the funds.
>BTW, when you finish with the Kossuth memorials you should consider
>extending the project to cover other Hungarian memorials also. For example,
>there is a nice Petofi bust in Buffalo, and there are numerous 1956
>memorials. Here is a short list of the 1956 monuments I know something
Thanks for the advice, but we are a long ways from finishing up the Kossuth
project. In fact we are thinking of extending it to cover his life and
career in Europe: in Hungary and exile. Next March is the 150th anniversary
of the revolt and we'd like to finish before that. We are thinking of
inviting a partner in Hungary to work with us. Tks for your help. Andy.
5743 Pignut Mtn. Dr.
Warrenton VA 20187
USA T:540 349 1408