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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Pellionisz v. IMF (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Pellionisz v. IMF (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
3 Pellionisz and the IMF (mind)  44 sor     (cikkei)
4 Support of Endrey from an American Professor (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
5 Fencsik-Fantasy (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)
6 Youthful Ignorance (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Pellionisz v. IMF (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Pellionisz v. IMF (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Fencsik, with his characteristic modesty, wrote:

>The Net being what it is, there is no way to tell whether Dr Vitez Lo'fo"
>Anthony Endrey, Dr. Jur., LL.B. (Hons.), QC, etc. actually exists, or if
>he is just another figment of Dr Pellionisz' lively imagination.  Someone
>acting as Her Majesty's Counsel for the States of Victoria and Tasmania,
>while residing in Hodmezovasarhely, is just the kind of character to spring
>-- fully armed -- from the head of the good Doctor.

Well, what Gabor says is, that Dr. Endrey cannot exist because he's never
heard of him.  Actually, Endrey's name is quite well known in Western
Hungarian immigrant circles from which Fencsik probably kept a safe distance.
Dr. Endrey wrote even a useful book, entitled "THE OTHER HUNGARY, The
History of Transylvania."  Useful, because it's in English, and gives
the Hungarian side of that much debated history in a widely used

The reason he writes from Hodmezovasarhely is explained in his original
press release: that's where he retired after returning from Australia.

I don't feel to be qualified to comment on the merits of his novel law
suit idea, but I have a feeling that filing the suit at the US Supreme
Court is probably a mistranslation from Hungarian ("Legfelsobb
Birosag"?).  Hungary, as many other countries have what amounts to two
"Supreme Courts":  one is the Constitutional, the other "just" the
Supreme.  In the US there is only one Supreme court.  So I suppose
Endrey really was thinking filing the suit in one of the Federal
District Courts.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: Pellionisz v. IMF (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Pannon is graciously trying to clarify what Dr Endrey might have
meant to say about which court is to hear his lawsuit against the IMF:

> I don't feel to be qualified to comment on the merits of his novel law
> suit idea, but I have a feeling that filing the suit at the US Supreme
> Court is probably a mistranslation from Hungarian ("Legfelsobb
> Birosag"?).  Hungary, as many other countries have what amounts to two
> "Supreme Courts":  one is the Constitutional, the other "just" the
> Supreme.  In the US there is only one Supreme court.  So I suppose
> Endrey really was thinking filing the suit in one of the Federal
> District Courts.

Joe, you don't understand.  We are talking here about the top expert on
Tasmanian law in all of Hodmezovasarhely.  Why does he need to translate
legal terminology from Hungarian into English?  Isn't he Her Majesty's
Very Own Counsel for the States of Victoria and Tasmania, Dr. Jur., LL.B.
(Hons.), QC, and all that?  Why, this stuff sounds almost as impressive
as the Humboldt Prize.  You can't tell me the man is some kind of two-bit
lawyer.  This is the very man who has been "authorized to disclose" the
imminent filing of the lawsuit.  Are you telling me the announcement is
a sham?  That he has not been authorized by anyone to do anything, he
does not have a brief, and he does not even know the name of the court
where his lawsuit is about to be filed?  Say it ain't so, Joe.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Pellionisz and the IMF (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am grateful to Gabor Fencsik for his comments on this latest brainchild of
the Hungarian right: a letter written to the prime minister of Hungary,
urging him to sue the International Monetary Fund for bad advice. The
original letter of our shining knight, Dr. Antal Erdey, royal counselor, was
published in several Hungarian papers and therefore I have to assume that Dr.
Erdey does exist. Every country must have a certain number of nuts, and
Hungary always had its share!

Andras Pellionisz republished this letter for the Hungarian-language list,
Forum, and to my utter surprise the majority of the active members of that
list considered this half-baked idea the handiwork of a genius. The amazing
thing about this whole affair, at least to my mind, that those who were most
enthusiastic about a suit at the *Supreme Court* have been living in this
country for decades and yet they seem to know next to nothing about the
United States, its constitution and its institutions.

There are nuts and there are nuts and, of course, this whole thing will die a
quiet death soon enough. What worries me is the number of people in Hungary,
who, on the Forum as well as in private letters to me, keep telling me that
Hungary has no other way--the debt load is such that the country is unable to
carry it. Suggestions are: outright refusal to pay; reorganization of the
debt; sueing the IMF and World Bank. It seems to me that the opposition
(especially its populist wing) put forth the idea that (1) Hungary will go
bankrupt because of its high indebtedness and (2) the debt load is solely or
largely responsible for the current hardships.

Meanwhile more sober voices declare that (1) it is not necessary to
reorganize the debt because Hungary manages its debt load quite easily (2) it
would be almost impossible to reorganize this debt because almost 90% of it
are not outright loans but are in form of bonds, held mostly by individuals
all over the world.

The right-wing propaganda on the debt load seems to bear fruit--more and more
people are convinced that if Hungary could get rid of the debt all would be
well! In connection with this propaganda there is also a trend which I think
is new: it is the West that is responsible for Hungary's troubles. And how?
 By clever political and economic moves they ruined "the socialist camp," and
Hungary now pays the price for it. Thus, Hungary's economic problems do not
stem from forty years of command economy, but from the ruinous machinations
of the capitalist world. I find the whole trend rather frightening,
especially at the time when there are hopeful signs of

Eva Balogh
+ - Support of Endrey from an American Professor (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From: Frederick Sweet >
Subject: Re: Hungary Takes IMF/World Bank to Court for Negligence__GOOD!
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:00:04 -0500 (CDT)
Cc:  (Frederick Sweet)
MIME-Version: 1.0


The situation described in the Press Release was interestingly predicted
by Professor Noam Chomsky in his small book "What Does Uncle Sam Really
Want?"  Chomsky foretells that after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the western
bankers will make haste to create Third World dependancy of the East
European countries via debt obligations to the IMF/World Bank.
Now, it has happened.

      Prof. Isaac Asimov once observed, "To become a prophet one merely
needs to predict the inevitable."

      F. Sweet., St. Louis USA
+ - Fencsik-Fantasy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am happy for readers of "Hungary" for the entertainment Fencsik's
Fantasy provides us. It is a pity, though, that he blatantly
ignores facts while trying to amuse us. First, although his attempt to
engage in "ad hominem" attacks in lieau of fair factual debate is
given the high stakes of those who profit from Hungary's rape, at the least
he should aim his attacks at Dr. Endrey in Hungary, the person who
conceived the
suit of IMF/World Bank for negligence. Mr. Fencsik commits the laughable
error of
"mistaken identity" by not realizing that Dr. Endrey cannot be identical to
me, as Endrey was interviewed by numerous Hungarian newspapers as well as by th
Public Radio Broadcast Station in Budapest, while a reporter from the same
Radio Station talked to me, asking for an interview during the same time
in the San Francisco region. These cities are, as some of us realize,
many-many thousands of miles apart. Indeed, it is very easy for any
newsperson to interview
Dr. Endrey in person at the address he publicized, or at the least call him
(36-62-342-959) to get his story firsthand. (Dr. Endrey, having lived about

40 years in Australia where he practiced law, attaining the title "Her
Majesty's Council", commands an excellent English; thus no knowledge of his
native Hungarian language is necessary to come up with a fascinating piece
for the newsmedia).

Second, I regret Mr. Fencsik's profound ignorance of even the US Constitution.
For readers of "Hungary" I verbatim quote below Section 2. of Article III,
pertaining the original jurisdiction of the Supreme Court (EMPHASIS ADDED;

"Section 2. The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and
Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and
Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; - to all
Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls; - to all
Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction; - to CONTROVERSIES TO WHICH
THE UNITED STATES SHALL BE A PARTY; - to Controversies between to or more
States; - between a State and Citizens of another State;, - between Citizens
of different States, - betweeen Citizens of the same State claiming Lands
under Grants of different States, and BETWEEN A STATE, OR THE CITIZENS THEREOF,

IN ALL CASES affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and
ORIGINAL JURISDICTION. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme
Court shall
have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and  Fact, with such Exceptions
and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make."

I'd like to reassure readers of "Hungary" that not all Hungarians possess the
entertaining yet treacherous trait of youthful ignorance -- and it is certainly
a slim minority of the population that actively profits from robbing Hungary
blind under the pretext of "repaying" (many-many times!) those
irresponsible loans
taken out by (supposedly) "fallen" communists.

Dr. Andras Pellionisz
+ - Youthful Ignorance (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dr Pellionisz, an advocate of the pea-brained lawsuit cooked up by his
Tasmanian alter-ego Dr Endrey, thinks that the U.S. Constitution
allows the filing of class action suits in the Supreme Court.  Let me
repeat, for the good Doctor's benefit, my original statement:

> If Vitez Dr Endrey is indeed such an accomplished legal scholar, then
> he ought to know that under the U.S. Constitution it is not possible
> to file class action suits in the Supreme Court.  Article III of the
> Constitution confers original jurisdiction to the U.S. Supreme Court
> only over cases involving ambassadors, and suits involving the states
> as parties.

Dr Pellionisz objects to this by quoting, verbatim, Article III of the
U.S. Constitution, but apparently without understanding a word of what
he is typing.  For a keen legal mind such as Dr Pellionisz, the
distinction one must firmly keep in mind is the one between *original*
jurisdiction, and *appellate* jurisdiction.  Article III lists the few
cases in which the Court has original jurisdiction.  Class action suits
are not among these.  The Court may consider class action suits only on
appeal, after they have been disposed of by the lower courts. Therefore,
Dr Endrey's suit would need to be filed in a lower court first, and
wind its way up to the Supreme Court on appeal.  Joe Pannon understood
this right away, and tried to help out by explaining how Dr Endrey
might have misspoken himself -- to use a Zieglerian expression.  Joe
even zeroed in on the solution: file in a lower Federal court first
(and wish for good luck).  See, it's not rocket science.  I am sure it
will take no more than a few seconds of intense concentration for the
good Doctor to grasp the point.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Re: Pellionisz v. IMF (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Fencsik again:

>Joe, you don't understand.  We are talking here about the top expert on
>Tasmanian law in all of Hodmezovasarhely.  Why does he need to translate
>legal terminology from Hungarian into English?  Isn't he Her Majesty's
>Very Own Counsel for the States of Victoria and Tasmania, Dr. Jur., LL.B.
>(Hons.), QC, and all that?

No, you misunderstood me, Gabor!  What I meant implicitly was that
perhaps he issued his statement originally to the Hungarian press in
Hungarian which then the press translated to English and that's what we
have seen here.  But as I said, it was just a guess of mine for I, too,
would find it hard to believe that Dr. Endrey would not know that the US
Supreme Court could not be the court of original jurisdiction in such a
law suit.

BTW, though suing the IMF and World Bank may be a novel idea, the
criticism of these two institutions is far from an idea of some lunatic
fringe.  Over the last few years I've read enough of it in the
mainstream US press from respectable economists.  The last one of these,
if memory serves (and you of all people should know something about
that!), was from the maverick Harvard economist, Jeffrey Sachs.
Personally, I'd like to see such a precedent setting law suit proceed,
because one thing banks hate most is bad publicity.  For this reason,
even if they are sure they could win the case, they'd rather settle than
go to trial.  So it would be interesting show to watch, if nothing else.
But my hunch is that this effort to get the law suit started will fizzle
out before long, in the good old Hungarian "szalmalang" tradition.
Especially because they'll have trouble raising the funds for such an
expensive law suit.