I'm cross-posting this to slovak-l for two reasons:

1. Since this is a discussion about people who are Slovak citizens and
   whose rights may be endangered by the Slovak government, slovak-l seems
   to me as a more appropriate place for it.
2. I do not regularly read soc.culture.magyar.

On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, HipCat wrote:

> The census of, I believe 1910 -give or take a few years - found
> Hungarians to be 1.5 million and Slovaks around 1.5 million.  Much more
> than a mere 300,000 as you wrote.  In other words, Slovaks were half of
                         ^^^
Just for clarification, that was somebody else.

And the communists used to receive 99.9% of the vote.

> the population, inhabiting mostly the northern mountainous regions, but
> received all the territory.  In addition, the Slovaks wanted a land
> route to the Adriatic!  Of course as with all negotiation you ask for
> more than you realistically hope to get.  Unfortunately for the
> Hungarians who were faced with French troops in Northern Hungary

Consequences of lost wars are always unfortunate for anybody.
(unless you lose to the US... :-))

As I have written on the Slovak list, the presence of Hungarians 
in Central Europe as well as the border between Slovakia and Hungary are
results of lost wars. You seem to have a problem accepting that, which is
the main reason of the tension between our countries. Living in the
past will not solve it. We have long ago accepted Hungarians as our
neighbors even though they originally came as conquerors. I think it is
time for you to accept that Slovaks have a right to have their own country
whose borders were drawn some 70 years ago. Let's move on.

> (Slovakia) and after laying down their arms and handing over their naval
> fleet on the Adriatic (honorable, but not too bright) along with French
> hopes for a weak Hungary and their plans to reward the "little entente,"
> Czechoslovakia, as it came to be known, got almost all it asked for as
> did Romania and Serbia.  Today there are many more Hungarians in
> Slovakia then even they are willing to admit due to persecution and

What exactly do you call persecution?  The school system which uses
Hungarian as the language of instruction?  The quota prescribing that
certain percentage of students admitted to colleges must be Hungarian?
Or instances when you are not helped in a store because you don't speak
Hungarian?

> marriage to non-Hungarians.

Sometimes people question the poor condition of the Slovak minority in
Hungary. Frequent counterargument is that "they don't make any noise about
it." Then similarly, if somebody ceases to declare himself/herself as
Hungarian (for whatever reason, especially mixed marriage), what's wrong
with that?

You make it sound like marrying a non-Hungarian is something strange.

> It is now ILLEGAL to speak Hungarian in
> public places - yes this at the dawn of the 21st century. This recent

This is nonsense. You probably confuse public places with government
offices. And even then it's still not true. As far as I remember the law
was to ensure that a person speaking the official language (Slovak) will
be able to communicate with government employees. If there is any "ban" it
concerns only official documents, which makes a lot of sense. The law says
nothing about verbal communication among Hungarian speaking persons,
should it take place in an office, on a street or anywhere else.

> "language purity law" even sought to ban the use of Hungarian in
> Church.  As ignorant as many of these Slovak lawmakers are, they took
> this part of the law out -  gee, thanks!

Well, they are not ignorant enough to forget Cernova. 
Your sarcasm is totally out of place.

> Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/


Peter Hakel

Dear Mr. Hakel

Thanks for the presentation of the Slovak point of view and I guess its 
only fairness that I must acknowledge it. After all, I suppose it 
would help the Magyar to survive in Slovakia (on paper that is) if they 
have a good understanding of Slovak. However, the sources which said that 
Prime Minister Meciar blamed the Magyar minority for Slovak economic 
problems were from the Encylcopedia Britannica 1994 Year Book - a fairly 
credible source in the opinion of many. 

I also question why you are genuinely perpexled at why Budapest would be 
concerned about its Magyar minority in Slovakia... Would it not make it 
sense, say if the Slovaks of Hungary (there aren't a lot of them mind 
you) were being hypothetically mistreated by their Magyar masters (God 
forbid!) and Bratislava pay attention to their hypothetical mistreatment? 
I think it makes perfect sense for a home country to be concerned about 
an ethnically-related minority (In this case Hungarian - Slovaks) or 
whenever some of its citizens or kindred people are endangered or 
whatever in a foreign country. For instance, in Canada (my home country) 
whenever there is a plane crash or disaster in a foreign land, the 
Canadian newscasters (regardless of channel) make mention of not only the 
total casualties but also whether Canadians were injured/killed or 
involved in the incident/disaster. I am sure the Americans do the same as 
well as every other nation in this world including Slovakia.

Look at Israel! Remember in 1990 about the Israeli airlift of thousands 
of Jews out of Ethiopia? They were just concerned about the safety of 
their relations and kindred! Is that wrong or even strange? Anyway with 
any country in the world, there is a big difference between de jure and 
de facto. By law according to the Slovak constitution (I'm indirectly 
quoting you), the Hungarian minority is alloted the same rights as the 
Slovak majority. Fine, but in practice the Magyars are treated 
differently. Let's face it! In the U.S. by law all citizens regardless of 
sex, race, creed, whatever are treated equally but why the hell in 
practice is there such stupid things like affirmative action (where 
blacks are allowed through this law to gain easier access to jobs whereas 
the whites are subtly discouraged by being given tougher entrance tests 
and the like?) Perhaps Count István Szechényi (a legnagyobb magyar - the 
greastest Hungarian) said it best when he said on Magyarization - 

The twirl of the tongue is never the beat of the heart. If one speaks 
Magyar it does not mean he is Magyar in spirit

The Slovak government twirls it tongue stating everyone is treated 
equally but at heart they have other things in mind. 

Sorry about bursting your bubble, but I must admit that some of your 
material was quite shocking for me (a Hungarophile) to read! 

Regards

Peter Chong

On 20 Aug 1996 05:12:19 GMT, Peter k Chong > wrote:
>Dear Mr. Hakel
>
>Thanks for the presentation of the Slovak point of view and I guess its 
>only fairness that I must acknowledge it. After all, I suppose it 
>would help the Magyar to survive in Slovakia (on paper that is) if they 
>have a good understanding of Slovak. However, the sources which said that 
>Prime Minister Meciar blamed the Magyar minority for Slovak economic 
>problems were from the Encylcopedia Britannica 1994 Year Book - a fairly 
>credible source in the opinion of many. 
>
>I also question why you are genuinely perpexled at why Budapest would be 
>concerned about its Magyar minority in Slovakia... Would it not make it 
>sense, say if the Slovaks of Hungary (there aren't a lot of them mind 
>you) were being hypothetically mistreated by their Magyar masters (God 
>forbid!) and Bratislava pay attention to their hypothetical mistreatment? 
>I think it makes perfect sense for a home country to be concerned about 
>an ethnically-related minority (In this case Hungarian - Slovaks) or 
>whenever some of its citizens or kindred people are endangered or 
>whatever in a foreign country. For instance, in Canada (my home country) 
>whenever there is a plane crash or disaster in a foreign land, the 
>Canadian newscasters (regardless of channel) make mention of not only the 
>total casualties but also whether Canadians were injured/killed or 
>involved in the incident/disaster. I am sure the Americans do the same as 
>well as every other nation in this world including Slovakia.

Of course, every country cares about their CITIZENS! It has absolutely
nothing to do with the slovak minority in Hungary and Hungarian
minority in Slovakia.

>
>Look at Israel! Remember in 1990 about the Israeli airlift of thousands 
>of Jews out of Ethiopia? They were just concerned about the safety of

OK, if a country is concerned about well being of somebody in another
country, they can do what israelis did. 

>their relations and kindred! Is that wrong or even strange? Anyway with 
>any country in the world, there is a big difference between de jure and 
>de facto. By law according to the Slovak constitution (I'm indirectly 
>quoting you), the Hungarian minority is alloted the same rights as the 
>Slovak majority. Fine, but in practice the Magyars are treated 
>differently. Let's face it! In the U.S. by law all citizens regardless of 
>sex, race, creed, whatever are treated equally but why the hell in 
>practice is there such stupid things like affirmative action (where 
>blacks are allowed through this law to gain easier access to jobs whereas 
>the whites are subtly discouraged by being given tougher entrance tests 
>and the like?) Perhaps Count István Szechényi (a legnagyobb magyar - the 
>greastest Hungarian) said it best when he said on Magyarization - 
>
>The twirl of the tongue is never the beat of the heart. If one speaks 
>Magyar it does not mean he is Magyar in spirit
>

???????? )):-o

>The Slovak government twirls it tongue stating everyone is treated 
>equally but at heart they have other things in mind. 
>

Agreement!

>Sorry about bursting your bubble, but I must admit that some of your 
>material was quite shocking for me (a Hungarophile) to read! 
>

I don't know which post are you talking about, but in general, Peter
Hakel doesn't appear to me as a supporter of current slovak
government. I just thing you are barking at a wrong tree here.  

>Regards
>
>Peter Chong
>
>  
>

lahvak
-- 
Jan Hlav\'{a}\v{c}ek

www: http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~lahvak

I'm looking for collection of short stories (or any other writings) by
Geza Csath in English that can be down-loaded.  Any info?

Hallo out there

Does anybody know the results of Hungarian lotto of Aug.17th 1996.

I would highly appreciate if the results could be sent to me by mail

Thank you

H. Spies

Peter k Chong ) wrote:



>On Romanian origins
>the Dacians are considered to be a Central Asian 
>people similar to the Scythians - that is to say they were
>a horse-riding people. Perhaps the name Dacia is related to
>Turk? (But I somehow doubt that). Anyway, it is probable that
>the Dacians came into the modern Transylvanian/Wallachian
>area before the Christian Era.

FYI Dacians belong to the Thracian family of peoples.
And they were indo-europeans as were the Greeks, the Romans, etc.
They came in Dacia around 2000 years before the Christian Era.


Excuse me, but how old are you ?
Are you in the 15-20 years old range ?
I am asking you that, because I find your behavior quite immature.
I noticed your postings on s.c.m. first on Hungarian history then
involving yourself in the "ancient" hungarian-slovak and 
hungarian-romanian  verbal warfare.
Some time ago you were asking about information on Romanians
origin. Now you came back, and with great self confidence, you post
these nonsenses.

I learned from your previous postings that you have an Hungarian
girl friend. That could explain your enthusiasm in "enrolling"
yourself on Hungarian "fronts". That is very "heroic". But won't
do it.
A little advice ? There is no need to thrive yourself in
appearing a "better Hungarian" in her eyes. Be yourself.

With deep Chinese wisdom,

Cristian Alb  ;-)

PLEASE READ THIS ARTICLE CAREFULLY! IT'S VERY IMPORTANT!
Please, post your answers to soc.culture.russian.

> --------------------------------------------------------

FIGHTING CRIMEA

Last news from occupied Crimea are terrible.
08/19/96     Ukrainian government forbade to use Russian word KVAS in Crimea.
08/20/96     Crimean government was fucked by drunken Ukrainian soldiers.
08/21/96     Shooting of Russian people started in Crimea, after a letter of
rusophob Korolev.
08/22/96     Who knows?

I am treating to all humanity - please, lets save Russian minority in Crimea!
Stop Ukrainian bandits!
Does anybody know there aren’t Russian schools in Crimea? ALL were closed,
so education in Crimean is 100 % Ukrainian. Russian children doesn’t know
native language!
Does anybody know Russian language was forbidden in Crimea, even during sex?
(except oral sex)
Does anybody know Ukrainian government produces special Anti-Russian tablets?
What are United Nations doing now? Why do they ignore genocide?
I am treating to all normal people - please, help Russians in Crimea, you can
write letters to UN with demands to save minority.
I propose to create new Newsgroup - FIGHTING CRIMEA.
First good news - first partisan group was created in Crimean mountains.
Unfortunately they haven’t many weapons - only two guns and 7 vibrators,
please, help them! They need money for first Crimean T-34!

ZIVET SVOBODNYJ KRYM!