Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX SCM 516
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-11-11
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Soros sponsoring legalization of marijuana? (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Soros sponsoring legalization of marijuana? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: The Ottoman Empire and the German Reformation (mind)  84 sor     (cikkei)
4 Any (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
5 Slovaks and Czechs (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: [FW]A T E N T I E U N G A R I A ! (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Slovaks and Czechs (mind)  74 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Simply incomprehensible ... NOT! (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Az okosabb ismet megprobal engedni (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: [FW]A T E N T I E U N G A R I A ! (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Soros sponsoring legalization of marijuana? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
willy, the canadian pseudo poet and artificial artist wrote:
>You are irrelevent -- PLUNK!

Wrong answer, buttmunch. You suck.

Gabor
+ - Re: Soros sponsoring legalization of marijuana? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, 
 says...
>
>Poetician1 > wrote:
>>Oh dear me! I SHOULD be concerned -- but I'm not.
>>PLUNK!
>
>That's not a surprise. And not original. Or creative. I see you are still 
>practising to spell one word. You should have gotten it right by now.

PLUNKA!
+ - Re: The Ottoman Empire and the German Reformation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

No Turk was ever given any privilge or oportunity by Ottoman as
	"timar" or any position in Ottoman power hierarchi; on the contrary,
	all Turks were deliberately kept by the Ottoman sytsem of oppression,
	which was composed of all devshirmes who were former Christian converts
	of Greek, Armenian, and other Eastern European origins, as the most
	ignorant and powerless socially, economically and every other way.

	On the other hand Barbarossa's father was a very successfull Janissary
	that's why he was given a good timar; according to the Ottoman 
	devshirme procedures, he was taken from his Greek Ortadox family  
	when he was 8-9 years old as a tax and trained at an Ottoman military
	school as a janissary in which he excelled so well that he was 
	promoted to higher ranks ("timarli sipahi" a cavalry soldier) and
	given a timar as his retirement pension by his Ottoman masters who
	were devshirmes, including Suleyman, like himself was one.

	Nevetheless, Barbarossa was corsair for almost all his life; and it
	shows how unethical the Ottoman system of oppression was in choosing
	its people.


				../..
	

In article ),
Deniz Akkus  ) wrote:
)) ) )         Another typical example was a man known by the name Barbarossa, 
a
)) ) )         very successful(!) Greek Christain corsair, and a renegate, at t
he
)) ) )         age of 67 or 68 converted valuntarily (of course to serve for hi
s
)) ) )         own benefits) to become a Moslem (Ottoman style) and an Ottoman
)) ) )         Pasha to command the Ottoman naval fleets as the Ottoman Grand
)) ) )         Admiral.
)) ) )
)) ) )         Barbarossa was one of 4 sons of a former Ottoman devshirme (a
)) ) )         Janissary) during Suleiman II times born on the Greek Island of
)) ) )         Mytilene, the ancient Lesbos. His father was a young boy when Ot
tomans
)) ) )         abducted him from his Greek Christian parents to convert him to 
Moslem
)) ) )         and trained him to be a Janissary. After he retired, he returned
 to
)) ) )         his native island took up pottery for living and married the wid
ow
)) ) )         of a Greek Orthodox priest who gave birth to his four sons, Isha
k
)) ) )         the eldest who was a merchant, and the other three (Uruj, Khaire
ddin
)) ) )         known as Barbarossa, and Elisa) were corsairs.
)) ) )
)
)Just some corrections here.  Barbarossa's father was a "timarli sipahi"
)a cavalry soldier who had been given a "timar" namely the tax income of
)a piece of land in recognition of his service.  He might or might not
)have been a janissary -- there were instances of janissaries that became
)"timarli" and left the janissary corps.   Therefore we do not know
)whether or not Barbarossa's father was Muslim born or not.  
)
)His mother was Christian, this is correct.  Marriage to a "woman of the
)book" is allowed for Muslim men in Islam.  Children of course, would be 
)brought up Muslim.  
)
)It is without a doubt no matter even if Barbarossa was the son of a
)janissary and a Christian woman and therefore of 100% Christian stock
)(whatever that means) that Barbarossa would be born Muslim.  His father
)was either a Muslim convert (devshirme) or born Muslim and therefore
)Barbarossa would be born Muslim. 
)
)BTW, Hayreddin is the name given to him by Sultan Suleyman the
)Magnificent.  His name before that was Hizir (I think).  When Sultan
)Suleyman made him Admiral of the Navy, he was given the name Hayreddin,
)meaning "blessed" or "auspicious".   Perhaps it is this name change and
)the dropping of outlaw status and forgiving his crimes that you remember
)as having happened later in his life as he made the transition from
)Barbarossa Hizir Reis the corsair to Barbaros Hayreddin Pasha, Chief
)Admiral of the Ottoman Navy. 
)
)regards,
)Deniz Akkus
)
)PS.  Nice bit of recruitment that was.  I am in favor of this sort of
)stuff.  Get the hackers to write security software and all that.
+ - Any (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Hungarians in Romania  ---(7)--- Education in Minority
Language     (repost)
From: 007 >
Date: 6 Nov 1996 14:09:02 -0700
Message-ID: >

keep your hungarian nationalist shit where it 
belongs.. in the hungarian news. If you keep 
posting in this group I'll log complaints against 
you to the postmaster. Go away nobody is interested 
in your nationalist and extremist views.  I'm 
serious.....
+ - Slovaks and Czechs (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

There's one thing, that especially wonders me after reading
Slovak NG and also after hearing and discussing with people
from the former CS.

In Finnish media they seem to concentrate to the relations
between Hungary and Slovakia. As I know the reality, I also
know how much disinformation and exaggeration there exists
around this subject. And I also know about extremists on
both side of the border + some phenomenas not discussed here.

And what wonders me?

I'm surprized, that when reading eg. bit.listserv.slovak, it
seems that there indeed are not great problems between
Hungarians and Slovaks. The real Big problems seem to
exist between Czechs and Slovaks!!

There's also another phenomena, that reminds me sometimes
the NG soc.culture.russian: the amount of personal flames,
that have nothing to do with the discussion. And just like
in s.c.r. also in slovak NG, the flames don't very often
come from the country discussed about, but from the other
side of the Atlantic Ocean...
Why?

Cheers,
Jorma Kypp|
Laukaa
Finland
+ - Re: [FW]A T E N T I E U N G A R I A ! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  () writes:
>CLARY Olivier > wrote:
>>the article was just stupid and uninteresting, given how much poison
>>and insults fly among Romanians on s.c.romanian, far more than what
>>Joe or other Hungarians ever write there.
>You obviously make no distinction whether a post is an initial
>provocation, or a response to it.  How observant of you!

Hé, olvasd el mégegyszer! Éppen azt mondom, hogy Te és más magyarok
*nem* szórtok "mérget" oda es így messze álltok attól, amit csinálnak
a románok egymás között!

Egyébként a román szöveget tobbé-kevésbé értettem, es ezért irtam fent,
hogy az ilyen cikk nem érdekes, mert annyira elrugaszkodott a román
news-csoporton tapasztalt valóságtól.

Üdv:
-- 
-- Olivier Clary   mailto:   http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1326/
Me'te'o-France/CNRM/Groupe Mode'lisation pour Assimiln. et Pre'vision, Toulouse
Aussi loin qu'est l'orient de l'occident, Il met loin de moi mes fautes --Ps103
Se nem kicsi, se nem nagy, / E'ppen hozza'm valo' vagy!  (Lakodalmas -Te'ka e.)
+ - Re: Slovaks and Czechs (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...
>
>There's one thing, that especially wonders me after reading
>Slovak NG and also after hearing and discussing with people
>from the former CS.
>
>In Finnish media they seem to concentrate to the relations
>between Hungary and Slovakia. As I know the reality, I also
>know how much disinformation and exaggeration there exists
>around this subject. And I also know about extremists on
>both side of the border + some phenomenas not discussed here.
>
>And what wonders me?
>
>I'm surprized, that when reading eg. bit.listserv.slovak, it
>seems that there indeed are not great problems between
>Hungarians and Slovaks. The real Big problems seem to
>exist between Czechs and Slovaks!!
>
>There's also another phenomena, that reminds me sometimes
>the NG soc.culture.russian: the amount of personal flames,
>that have nothing to do with the discussion. And just like
>in s.c.r. also in slovak NG, the flames don't very often
>come from the country discussed about, but from the other
>side of the Atlantic Ocean...
>Why?
>
>Cheers,
>Jorma Kypp|
>

A thoughtful observation.  Let's see if I can help illuminate this.
Many of the nations in central Europe are paranoid about
their neighbors.  Probably due to historical  circumstances, 
this is especially true of the Slovaks.  Slovaks are afraid of  
everybody - Czechs, Pollacks, Germans, and lately even the 
Americans.  But most of all, they are afraid of the Magyars. 
This is due, again, to the history of Hungarian domination, 
current problems with a large and vocal Magyar minority, 
and the on-going border disputes with Hungary.  Since these 
things represent potential destabilizing elements in the region, 
you are seeing a more detailed press coverage.   

As to what you are seeing here on the NG, you have to 
remember that the generation of Slovaks (and Czechs) 
participating in the discussion had not DIRECTLY experienced 
Hungarian domination.  On the other hand, Slovaks believe that 
they have been dominated and exploited by Czechs in the most 
recent times, so the resentment is focused there.  I guess it's 
one thing to look up in a book the history of the Hungarian 
conquest, and quite another to have a father, brother, or uncle 
die in a Czech labor camp mining uranium.  You go where the 
scars are the freshest.  And besides, the Slovaks and Czechs 
just plain enjoy bashing the hell out of each other.  Since, as 
you have seen, this quality survives even in exile, it could be 
a genetic trait.

As to the relative lack of participation from the locals, I can 
think of several reasons:

1. In Slovakia (and Czech), the Internet is still a rich man's sport.
  
2. Locals are actually LIVING OUT what we only discuss here.  
They probably have little reason to engage in virtual combat 
in cyberspace. 

3. They are too busy earning a decent living.

4. They are tired of the whole bag of filthy laundry and want to 
just get on with their lives.

Hope this helps.

Lojzo
+ - Re: Simply incomprehensible ... NOT! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Barsai > wrote:
>
Fiuk, ez a kolcsonos nyelvoltogtes kezd eleg unalmas lenni.  Higyetek
el, semmivel sem lesz kisebb a renometok, ha nem ragaszkodtok az utolso
szohoz a koltovel valo kicsinyes vitaitokban.

Joe
+ - Re: Az okosabb ismet megprobal engedni (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Gabor Barsai > wrote:
>>Mit gondolsz Gabor?
>
>Engem inkabb a csomo kis vita a romanokkal meg szlovakokkal untatott, de ha
>valaki azt elvezi, akkor miert legyek valami jo elrontoja? Megnyomtam az "n"
>billentyut, es kesz.

En Shift-k billentyut nyomtam rajuk
>
>Azt, hogy mit csinalj, Gyuri, ne tolem kerdezd! Ha jonak latod, huzzal be
>annak a majom kanadainak! Ha nagyon beidegesit, biztos, hogy irni fogok.
>
>Gabor

Mint lathattad behuztam neki, nem is egyet (How pseudopoets are born), nem 
tanult belole, ugyhogy megegyszer behuzni pazarlas lenne. Ha csak nagyon fel 
nem mergesit en is abbahagytam.
Gyuri
+ - Re: [FW]A T E N T I E U N G A R I A ! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 () writes:

>Megjegyzem, hogy a romanok imponaloan utasitjak vissza mostanaban a
>koztuk levo neanderthaliak kiszolasait, s ez ad okot egy kis optimizmusra.
>Nem emlekszem ilyesmire korabban.

A s.c.r. megszuletese utan egy darabig nagyon jol ledorongaltak a jelentkezo
disszonans hangokat.  Ezutan jott az elnacionalizalodas es a jozanabb hanguak
kikopasa.  Orvendetes, ha megint fordult a kocka, de a kerdes az, hogy meg-
allt-e a forgas.

Anto'ny Gyuri

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