Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 listdoc Hungary (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
4 COMPENSATION COUPONS (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
5 Double S (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Gypsies (mind)  59 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: The vote for... Hungarians-- at least 3 (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Gypsies (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Gypsies (mind)  93 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Vergangenheitsbewaeltigung (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (Was: Re: (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Gypsies (mind)  56 sor     (cikkei)

+ - listdoc Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

+ - Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>     So if I understand you correctly, since my father was born in Budapest, I
>technically have hungarian citizenship?  Is this right?  Is there not some
>sort of language requirement (I speak very little Hungarian)?  Would you still
>have that article?  Anybody know where I could look into this, how could I get
>a Hungarian passport ect;? I already have a French and an American passport,
>is it legal to have three?  very interesting....marc


Unfortunately I don't have the article and I'm not quite sure in which paper
I've read it (Eszakmagyarorszag - maybe?). The article, however, didn't
mention any restrictions or requirements such as language efficiency.
If you need more information, I would suggest you to contact the Hungarian
Consulate, whichever is nearest to you.

+ - Re: CITIZENSHIP (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Regarding your fear of being drafted, I have a few thoughts. First of all, the
26 years age limit does not exist. It used to be 28, then they raised it to
30 and the last thing I've heard about it was that they were going to extend it
to 40(!). There are some exceptions to the service though. If you have one
child, you only need to serve I think 8 months. With 2 children, 6 months, and
 with 3 or more, none. Theoretically, you would probably have to serve, however
there are some technical problems with drafting people who don't have a steady
residence in Hungary. What happens is that periodically they send you a
questionnaire to inquire about your status, whether you study or not, etc. Then
if you seem to be available, they "invite" you for enlistment. These enlistment
orders are sent to addresses in Hungary only. If you don't respond, they won't
draft you. When time comes, they send you another enlistment order (that is,
if you have an address in Hungary.) If you still don't show up, a policeman
might try to visit you and see what's going on but this is very unlikely for
they have so many other things to worry about. And without going to this
enlistment thing, you can't be drafted. The actual draft would take place a
few months after the enlistment, but even then you can go abroad.
Fortunately, the Hungarian army - just like so many other government organiza-
tions in Hungary - are not equipped with a usable computer system, so all
the tracking is done manually by shuffling papers. The whole process is very
slow and it's pretty easy to get around it.
After all is said and done, you don't have to worry about the service.
+ - COMPENSATION COUPONS (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am in possession of compensation coupons that I would like to exchange  or
convert to stocks on the Hungarian stock market. Could someone help me find a
broker or other to assist me. I live in N.J,USA and would not pay right now
for me to visit Hungary, but I do  plan to visit in a year or two.
+ - Double S (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Just out of curiosity - why do you spell your last name with a double s?
I have never seen that form of "Sipos" before.
+ - Re: Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Gypsies
From: paul, 
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 18:16:28 EDT
In article > paul,
>Rebecca Tracy wrote:
>>Because Romani people originally came from India, much of the underlying
>>culture is based upon a caste system. Therefore, non-Roma are considered
>>ritually unclean, and this causes problems with group interaction. It is
>>difficult to maintain caste norms when you must work and live among
>>"unclean" people.
>Thank you Rebecca for the honest most "defenders of the weak" on this
>list haven't shown.  I wasn't aware of this belief by the Roma, but
>it is a clear example of an unacceptable idea people of all political
>ideas can agree on.  It doesn't make Roma bad people, and certainly
>make them good people, but it is an idea held by people of that culture
>which is wrong in the eyes of Europeans.  Imagine that, a negative
>attribute!  Shocking that the world is not like the image shown at the
>'It's a Small World After All' ride at Disney Land.  Can we agree that
>belief is not worth defending as part of Roma culture in Europe?  At the
>same time, I'm sure therare folks on the list who will defend this too.
>Paul .

that is a novel view on "europeans". the caste system is alive and well
in europe, albeit not equally in all nations. many european countries are
still monarchies: spain, the united kingdom, belgium, the netherlands,
denmark, sweden, norway, luxemburg, liechtenstein, monaco. they support
aristocracies with systemic privileges. even countries which are no longer
monarchies sometimes retain the aristocratic classes, such as germany,
where the extent of the privilege is not as great, but the entitlements
the vestige of previous days of glory.

the caste system takes different forms. in switzerland, republican or not,
not all citizens are equal, with distinctions highly correlated with, for
example, one's native language or origin. it is not unusual to hear there
that "a foreigner always remains a foreigner", even after obtaining
swiss citizenship. the same is true of the "pakis" and "chinks" in the
united kingdom, or the "turks" in germany.

in your eurocentic megalomania, you seem to have ignored the fact that
hungarians seem to originate, linguistically and historically from a
region as remote from the europe you cherish as the gypsies, and seem to
have arrived on the scene not too far apart in time.

it would indeed be interesting to see what european culture would be like
if all extra-european influences were removed as foreign. for a start,
look at "typically european food". what wuld be left if extra-european
foods were to be removed from the european diet?

no potatoes, no tomatoes, no paprika, no grapes, no tea, no coffee, no
garlic, no lemons, no peaches, no oranges, no pepper, no spaghetti, no
wine, no maize. need i go on?
+ - Re: The vote for... Hungarians-- at least 3 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: The vote for... Hungarians-- at least 3
From: Asztalos Tibor dr., 
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 13:42:06 MET
In article >
Asztalos Tibor dr.,  writes:
>> Greg asks--
>> >Do other European states allow non-resident citizens to vote?

> Bela answers:

>> Yes, at least two--Austria and France.  Two Austrian students of mine
>> recently voted in the Austrian referendum on EU membership, or will
vote in

>  My answer is:

>  Yes, at least 3
>  My friends from Romania voted at the embassy in Budapest 2 years ago.

>  Tibor Asztalos SZEGED

in several swiss cantons, resident foreign citizens are entitled to vote
in local elections. i believe the same is true of a number of other
european countries.

+ - Re: Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

From: paul, 
Date: Sat, 1 Oct 1994 16:54:59 EDT
In article > paul,
>>even criticized the propriety of such a joke.  There was also an
>>of vicious anti-Gypsy graffiti around the city, even on munuments on the
>>main drag.  Two stand out--"Ciga1nyok India1ba" [Gypsies back to India]

>Gypsies chose to live on the fringes of society and one the whole have
>become part of the society.

and the unemployed in britain "choose" to live in cardboard boxes, the
of the middle ages "chose" to live in ghettos.....

>It may not be clear what to do with them, but
>since they take great pride in stealing and crime as part of their
>culture (see my 20/20 news show posting),
>sending them someplace doesn't seem like an unrealistic idea.

ah! that sounds familiar! I have read similar ideas for dealing with
gypsies before, usually with similar proposals for jews, blacks, etc.
if you like, i'll post some translations for you.

+ - Re: Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Gypsies
From: paul, 
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:34:34 EDT
In article > paul,
>>ugliest racism, and I can't agree with it. However, whether gypsies
steal or
>>not, whether their culture is inferior or not, is not the question. THE
>>PROBLEMS. I think you haven't even come close to that, not even to
>>the problem, in fact.
>Please sign your postings in the future so we know who said what.  All
>is to identify the writer is the e-mail address.
>Ok, let's talk about addressing the problem.  Can you tell me what the
>of the liberals would be if someone suggested addressing the 'problem' of
>the inferior culture or habits of an ethnic group?

i  hope i am not in danger of a churchillian misunderstanding here, but i
would hope that any serious liberal would answer: "hold on there, you
bigotted bastard! what the hell do you mean by 'inferior culture and

> Do you think that kind of
>a suggestion would go over well?  If you agree (and I don't mean to
>you do) that stealing and antisocial behavior is a cultural trait of the
>Gypsies, what you the liberals concede to as a solution or course of

it depends on how you define stealing. if expropriation or arrogation are
forms of stealing, then our society  is indeed one based on stealing. i
wonder how the map of the united states of america would look had there
been no stealing of lanfd from the indigenous peoples.

of course in a society which does not admit private property --- as
to personal property --- "stealing" would be very different from
in a society based on private property.

similarly anti-social behaviour is determined by the given society. the
problems arise when two or more societies inhabit the same geographical
region. which society't values have priority? the thinking liberals'
would of course be "neither. each should respect the other." that would
be a civilised solution.

>I smell the ugly head

you are indeed possessed of extraordinary abilities. you manage to assess
optical qualities with your olfactory senses! bravo!

>of the ACLU rearing here!!  To be clear, I DO NOT
>suggest all Gypsies behave in an antisocia; manner, for I don't have any
>way to make that determination, and I am a strong believer in the
>principal the there is no such thing as 'all' with respect to groups of
>people.  But, there is such a thing as behaviors with are more likely in
>one group than in the population as a whole.  That is what we  call
>For good and bad, culture is defined be behaviors and preferences of one
>group of people, which are different than the behaviors and preferences
>other groups.  Italians speak with their hands, hung and kiss a lot, and
>stand on top of you during a conversation.  Northern Europeans are more

the german army of world war ii was hardly a group of subdued men.

>and feel more comfortable standing a bit further away while speaking
>to each other.

> Neither is good or bad - they just are.  These are
>elements of culture, and demonstrate that people do behave differently
>and have different preferences, for good or bad.  The problem is that
> 'progressive' minded folks only acknowledge the positive aspects of
>culture, as if culture was the packaged stuff at weekend festivals.  The
>more to Polish people than polkas. and to russians than caviar.

here you again import the evaluation of culture. what supracultural
criteria form the basis of such evaluation?

+ - Re: Vergangenheitsbewaeltigung (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Vergangenheitsbewaeltigung
From: Asztalos Tibor dr., 
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 16:58:28 MET

> From: "H. MARC" >
> Subject: Vergangenheitsbewaeltigung
> What does Vergangenheitsbewaeltigungmean?  BTW, Thanx for the Respekt
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

it means coming to terms with the past.

+ - Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (Was: Re: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: The vote for overseas Hungarians (Was: Re:
From: W. BATKAY, 
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 00:23:00 EST
Greg asks--

>Do other European states allow non-resident citizens to vote?

switzerland and germany do

+ - Re: Gypsies (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: Gypsies
From: paul, 
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 18:51:41 EDT
In article > paul,
>>What should be done? We, Romani people, should become less
factionalized and
>>more cohesive in our approach to government representation. We should
>>discourage parasite economics, based on cultural norms or otherwise,
>>encouraging pride in traditions that are valuable to the survival of our
>>need to be literate; and among Gadze, who need to know more about our
>>culture in order to respect it. If we don't reach out, we will die.
That is
>>Rebecca Tracy
>Now, I was born and raised in the US, so my prespective is not a
>but an American one.  IMHO, if you want to live in Hungary, fit in or

i doubt your sincerity! the region known as hungary today was once
peopled by celts, amongst others. the "honfoglalas" was not exactly a
case of the immigrants deciding to fit in or leave. similarly, if that
had happened in new jersey, it would not be called new jersey and you
would not be speaking american english but some "indian" language.

> The US has an immigrant, primarily Northern European culture, but
>Hungary does not.

the hungarian culture is an imported one into europe. centuries of
contact and conquest have modified and europeanised it, but the language
is still not a european one, nor are the foods typically consumed by
hungarians predominantly european: imagine "hungarian" cuisine without
garlic, paprika, potato, rice, coffee, lemon, wine, etc

> There is a native Hungarian culture, and except for the
>accomodations needed of other culures due to border shifting (Poles,
>Ukraininas, etc.) there should not be any talk of multiculturalism as it
>exists in the US (a ridiculous idea in itself, but that is for another
>newsgroup) which dictates that all cultures are equal, rather than local
>cultures being tolerated as is done in Europe.  If Gypsies or any groups
>want to live by traditions in they traditions villages, fine, but don't
>bring it to the national level.  It is wrong to expect the nation to
>accept local minority beahviors which are repulsive to the majority

in fact today's hungary is a very mixed society, with multiple ancestry.
it is, whether you like it or not, the reulst of hungary's being a melting
pot for different ethnic groups for centuries.