Hello Eva,

I agree with You fully with what You have written.It is
disgusting and enraging how some would attempt to rewrite the
history of Hungary,trying to water down a freedom fight to
"revolution".It was a freedomfight,as every hungarian knows it.
Keep up the good work!


               

Wrong.It was not an uprising,revolution but a freedomfight.It
was not uprisers,revolutioneries,but FREEDOMFIGHTERS!And also
defeated the russians,I might add.

Dear Colleagues,

The November 18-24th issue of The Economist provides a fair and
comprehensiveSurvey  of Central Europe.

When the article discusses Slovakia, it says: "Slovaks came under Hungarian
rule in Habsburg times."

The article makes two errors by omission: The first is that it does not
mention the Benes Decretums: the confiscation of Hungarian property and the
deportation of Hungarians, only because of their nationality. The other
omission is that the article does not describe the "language law" and the
many other attempts of the Meciar government to de-nationalize and
de-culturize the indigenous Hungarian regions.

It would be very helpful, if the Economist received letters from around the
world to correct these two shortcomings of an otherwise accurate and in-debth
article. I urge you to write to:  or fax to:
44-171-839-2968

Best regards: Bela Liptak

>I am getting tired of seeing my namesake misrepresenting what I wrote.
>Joe szalai claims:
>>
>>My original posting was mainly to express my disappointment at seeing the ga
>>ga attitude expressed by Joe Pannon and Eva Balogh at the thought of
>>American GIs in Pecs.  They can't seem to wait!
>
>First, I wrote "it will be interesting to see American GIs in Pecs", not
>that I couldn't wait for it!  Second, I expressed my assesment of what I
>know about Hungarian fascination with Americans when I wrote that they
>would sure find a friendlier host there than at some other places.
>
>It's fine with me, if Joe Szalai wants to use this as an occasion to
>express his anti-Americanism, but don't do it at my expense, Joe, OK?
>
>Thanks,
>Joe Pannon

Sorry Joe.  I must have hit a raw nerve with you.
It's too bad that you don't want me to interpret what you wrote.  What else
don't you want me to do?

Read my posting carefully.  I used words like 'seems' and 'attitude' to
comment on what you wrote.  Is that automatically a misrepresentation of
what you wrote?  Are you a literalist?

By the way, I never said that I am anti-American.  You said that.  You
allowed yourself to interpret what I wrote.  Interesting that you don't want
me to interpret what you wrote.  This isn't a case of 'do as I say' and not
'do as I do'??

However, more importantly, you chose to label me anti-American rather than
address my criticism of American foreign policy.  I guess it's easier that
way.

Szia

Joe Szalai

Joe Szalai can't even recall what he himself wrote.

>>I am getting tired of seeing my namesake misrepresenting what I wrote.
>>Joe szalai claims:
>>>
>>>My original posting was mainly to express my disappointment at seeing the ga
>>>ga attitude expressed by Joe Pannon and Eva Balogh at the thought of
>>>American GIs in Pecs.  They can't seem to wait!
>>
>>First, I wrote "it will be interesting to see American GIs in Pecs", not
>>that I couldn't wait for it!  Second, I expressed my assesment of what I
>>know about Hungarian fascination with Americans when I wrote that they
>>would sure find a friendlier host there than at some other places.
>>
>>It's fine with me, if Joe Szalai wants to use this as an occasion to
>>express his anti-Americanism, but don't do it at my expense, Joe, OK?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Joe Pannon
>
>Sorry Joe.  I must have hit a raw nerve with you.
>It's too bad that you don't want me to interpret what you wrote.  What else
>don't you want me to do?

At least quote what I wrote, which was about MISinterpretation, not
interpretation.  The other thing I don't care for in your letter is your
arrogance.
>
>Read my posting carefully.  I used words like 'seems' and 'attitude' to
>comment on what you wrote.  Is that automatically a misrepresentation of
>what you wrote?  Are you a literalist?

Oh yeah?  How about the following?

>My original posting was mainly to express my disappointment at seeing the ga
>ga attitude expressed by Joe Pannon and Eva Balogh at the thought of
>American GIs in Pecs.  They can't seem to wait!

Gaga attitude?  Can't seem to wait? It's clear that you attributed to me
(and Eva) a cheerleader attitude about it when all I was trying to do is
stimulate a discussion about it.  Especially as to how that might effect
the Hungarian minority's situation across the border.

>By the way, I never said that I am anti-American.  You said that.

Sure.  Just like most anti-semites don't spell out (in public, at least)
that they are anti-Jewish.  Yet people can usually tell.

>You allowed yourself to interpret what I wrote.  Interesting that you don't
>want me to interpret what you wrote.  This isn't a case of 'do as I say' and
>not 'do as I do'??

You only mentioned the code word for anti-Americanism, i.e. the
"policeman".  When this is used by non-Americans with the tone you used
it, there is not much room to interpret it any other way.

Joe Pannon

Where can I purchase Hungarian CDs.  Would prefer the contact info of some
mail order outfit in Hungary with a large selection.
Also, can one order Hungarian movies from a Hungarian distributor that is
US VCR compatible?

send info to this culture hungry expatriate direct to

I have spent considerable time about thinking the problem of the
Pellionisz/Szucs/Kiss phenomenon and its effect on the list. My first
reaction was: yes, let's bar him from the list. Not a surprising first
reaction from someone who has been the target of the Pellionisz/Szucs/Kiss's
attack more often than I like to remember. But then I changed my mind. His
expulsion from the list would be interpreted by him as the result of a
sinister conspiracy of liberal-bolshevik elements to silence the "true voice"
of the nation. Therefore, with a heavy heart, I suggest to put up with him
and simply try to ignore him. My suggestion would be not to answer any of his
insults, however insidious, untrue, undeserved they might be. I would
actually suggest of ignoring him as if he didn't exist. Perhaps he would get
tired of "crying in the wilderness."

Eva Balogh

paul ) wrote:
:
: There is no such thing as always, but that doesn't mean that we should
: ignore wahat is usually true, or mostly of some character.  there may not be
: many pure Hungarians, and English, but does not mean tat there are no
:  differences
: between their bloodlines.  I cannot go to India or Kenya or France and claim
any
: connection to those peoples and places, and for me to do so would be silly.

that depends on how far back you wish to trace your origins, for if
you give modern biologists credence, *all* human beings can trace their
ancestry back to africa, very near to modern kenya.

as for an indian connection, you may also be surprised at the
link that indo-europeans ar supposed to have with the northern
part of the indian sub-continent. if you have any gypsy connections,
all the more so.

: Yes
: we are all human and should therefore respect each other and help each other
: when needed, but that is not an arguement of destrying each other with
kindness.
: There is nothing wrong with saying, " I respect you and if you need help I'll
: be there, and we can talk and learn from each other, but I have a society and
: nation that I belong to, and that is not something I want to share totally
and
: openly, since that would destroy it."

the society and nation that you (or any of us today) subscribe to is the
result of the very processes you seek to prevent. just look at cuisine.
take away from european cuisine the exotic ingredients and you would not
find it recognisable: no coffee, no tea, no rice, no potatoes, no wine,
no garlic, no lemons, no paprika, no peaches, no tomatoes, no pasta, no
corn, no cinammon, no chocolate.

societies have evolved and should continue to evolve. what i find
unfortunate is when the influence of one upon another is the destruction
of rather than the enhancement of the latter, when one is supplanted rather
than supplemented by the other. that is what seems to be happening today.
the fact that it is happenening again, rather than for the first time, is
cold comfort indeed.

d.a.

paul ) wrote:
:That is like taking every homeless person who meet into your
: house and letting them decide whcih holidays you'll celebrate, and what
: religion you'll worship.  You are not expected by anyone to go that far - you
: don't have to give up who you are.  You can help those people find work, and
:  bul ild
: build them a home, but you don't haver to give them yours.
:

the problem is, at least in the case of so many modern states, that
we have rendered them homeless in the first place by taking away
from them their abodes.

d.a.

Joe Szalai says:

>Your eagerness to see American GIs in Pecs is a bit disappointing.  I'm not
>sure why Joe thinks that they will be better received in Hungary than
>elsewhere in the world. . . . . As
>an Hungarian-Canadian I would be happy if the Americans stayed home.  They
>are NOT the worlds police.

As a Canadian citizen but a resident of the United States I would like to
point to the least attractive characteristic of Canadians: Canadian
nationalism which can be expressed only in virulent anti-Americanism. I used
to think that it was a "native" malignancy, but obviously I was wrong. You
don't have to be a born Canadian to have a inferiority/superiority complex.

I welcome the American soldiers in Hungary (as part of NATO troops) because I
am a supporter of Hungary's eventual adherence to NATO. I think it is in
Hungary's (all Eastern Europe countries'!) interest to belong to NATO in
order to avoid the kind of no-man's land situation which occurred between the
First and the Second World Wars in that region.

Canadians (Hungarian-Canadians or not) might be happy if the Americans stayed
at home but the United States is not Canada. Canada doesn't have global
responsibilities in the world. The United States does.

Eva Balogh

Joe Pannon wrote that he wanted to have a discussion on American GIs in
Pecs.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Perhaps some of you will join in.
But please don't say anything negative about American foreign policy and
never, ever, use code words like 'cop' or 'police' to describe American
foreign policy.  If you do, Joe Pannon might jump all over you, too.  He
wants a discussion but seems more interested in showing all the readers of
this list  that I'm anti-American, arrogant, and perhaps an anti-semite.
Joe. Is this some sort of bizarre foreplay before you engage in a discussion
with me?   Do you feel more secure in your point of view if you think that
your opponent is some kind of monster?  If you must demolish something, it
should be my ideas or opinions and not me.  Otherwise it's impossible to
have a discussion.  For example, you link 'anti-American' with
'anti-semite'.  Now, if I told you that I'm not an anti-semite that would be
proof to you that I am.  And, I guess if I told you that I'm an anti-semite
then you would conclude that I'm not.  C'mon Joe.  I've read your postings
to this list for a long time and I know that you're smarter than that.  I'll
admit that I was a bit flippant (my attempt at getting a discussion going)
by writing that you and Eva Balogh couldn't seem to wait for the American
GIs to get to Pecs.  But, on the other hand, you were already decorating the
rooms before the house was bought. Perhaps you weren't cheerleading, but you
were, in my opinion, very eager.

Joe Szalai

I'd like to know, too.  I was disappointed when I visited the
Qualiton/Hungaroton store on Vaci Utca this summer- - my local CD shop
has a better selection than they did, and the clerks were much less than
helpful.
Chuck Bender


In article >, Akos  > wrote:
>Where can I purchase Hungarian CDs.  Would prefer the contact info of some
>mail order outfit in Hungary with a large selection.
>Also, can one order Hungarian movies from a Hungarian distributor that is
>US VCR compatible?
>
>send info to this culture hungry expatriate direct to
>

>

Joe Szalai finally admits:

>I'll admit that I was a bit flippant (my attempt at getting a discussion going
)
>by writing that you and Eva Balogh couldn't seem to wait for the American
>GIs to get to Pecs.

Well, I'm glad and that should mark the end of my dialog with him.
The rest of what he wrote is not worth my time.
I think Eva already said what I was going to say based on my experience
of many Canadians.  Sometimes they should be honest with themselves and
admit who bears the major burden for their independence, too.

Joe Pannon

On Fri, 24 Nov 1995, Csaba Zoltani (ASHPC/CTD) wrote:

> Louis Elteto > writes in response to Half a
> Century Ago
>
> <
> <Sadly, you are quite wrong. Though the ...
> <
>
> The professor erred. During thee period discussed, April 1941 to March
> 1942, when Bardossy was prime minister, Hungarian Jews were not
> deported, illegal aliens (persons without residency permits or Hungarian
> citizenship) were. It seems that Prof. Elteto had the events after the
> German invasion of Hungary in 1944 in mind. Bardossy neither had the
> responsibility for nor was he the leading participant in those events.
>
> CSABA K. ZOLTANI

You're quite right, I read your comments out of context. I'm sorry. Of
course that does not change my overall view of the subject.

L.J.E.