||Re: No such user: firstname.lastname@example.org. (mind)
|| 262 sor
|| 9 sor
||Magyar culture (mind)
|| 13 sor
||Re: 56-invasion (mind)
|| 30 sor
||Re: Magyar culture (mind)
|| 43 sor
||Re: 56-invasion (mind)
|| 41 sor
|+ - ||Re: No such user: email@example.com. (mind)
In article >,
>>From: > (MAILER-DAEMON) (by way of
>>Subject: No such user: .
>>No such user: . Try .
>>----- YOUR ORIGINAL MESSAGE -----
>>>From Wed Oct 25 13:44:05 1995
>>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 13:46:59 -0400
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>From: (Rick Bruner) (by way of (Andy
>>Subject: Hungary Report 1.24/a (SPECIAL)
>> The Hungary Report
>> Direct from Budapest, every week
>> Also available on the World Wide Web
>> No. 1.24/a (SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT FEATURE)
>> October 23, 1995
>> SPONSORED BY: iSYS Kft., providing full Internet solutions for
>> companies and individuals in Hungary. For further information, send
>> e-mail to >, view our World Wide Web home page
>> (http://www.isys.hu) or call (+36-1) 266-6090.
>>Greetings Dear Readers,
>>In light of the fact that we sent out the latest issue of the Hungary
>>Report only last Thursday, we will not publish a full edition this week,
>>but only next Monday, October 30. Below, however, please find an essay
>>specially relevant to today's public holiday, the 39th anniversary of the
>>1956 Uprising. We hope you find it thought-provoking.
>>Brown Shoes and the Dymystification of 1956
>>By Laszlo Petrovics-Onfer
>>Copyright (c) 1995
>>Most recountings of October 1956 are still anecdotal, derived from what
>>people saw or experienced. These recountings are very real to them, and
>>tend to view it as the "real thing" -- the actuality of what happened. But
>>this does not make for historical fact, only as a grain of sand is an
>>actuality in the desert, and historians must take into account the
>>mutiplicity of communal experience.
>>My professor at Eotvos Lorand, weeping, recounted her experieces of living
>>the Boulevard and when the first shootings occured into the demonstrators in
>>front of Parliament heard, and still hears, the sirens of ambulances
>>screaming all day and well into the night. She turned to me. "You lived on
>>Damjanics Street. You had luck. It was far from the fighting."
>>Early mythologizing of the Revolution began with people like Mitchner whose
>>"Bridge at Andau" actually states that the very first shot fired by the AVO
>>from the rooftops hit, of all things, "a baby in his mother's arms." Good
>>for Mitchner, and the school of usery, but poor for history, for Hungary.
>>The poor book, the first rush to print in the West and first massive media
>>exposure of the Revolution, is such a quickie that no editing was undertaken
>>in the first editions. It is riddled with misspelling and poor grammar on
>>every page as any High School essay. It can hardly be considered
>>"historically accurate." But one can consider it as hurtful, even
>>debauching, as it befouls the sanctity of that Autumn when, eyes wide open,
>>beheld the purest of truth and also peered closely at a purity of hate.
>>will echo down from those few days -- to us, to our children, to another
>>Damjanics Street lay next to the Gorky Row, lined with young chestnuts whose
>>lower branches were almost within reach -- almost. It is true, I did not
>>hear sirens. And it is true, my parents wanted me to stay indoors. But I
>>snuck out. And this is what I saw. By Gorky Row students with the
>>tri-colored armbands rushing and shouting about a traitor. The "secret
>>policeman," or so presumed, was hung by his legs over a small fire. The
>>plaid trousers that covered his frame only partially, was singed, but
>>recognizable at once -- the used pair of trousers recieved in a care package
>>from relatives in the States weeks earlier, '50s wild-plaid, belonged to
>>Gyula Bacsi, the father of a neighbor, Pisti, a friend in third grade, two
>>ahead of me. I had played soccer with him, wrestled in the playground out
>>back and he had taught me chess, the Queen's gambit and Cicylian defense.
>>I stood amid dark wood then, in the cold October -- my fellow countrymen
>>howling, as when storm-swept wind rakes Buda's hills -- I do not recall
>>crying at the time, unlike my Professor from Eotvos. So blest even now, as
>>many Hungarians, by healing tears. I stood transfixed and numb from
>>Gyula was a plumber, no member of the Party and a true patriot, this much I
>>knew. A white light overcame my child's consciousness. I saw his charred
>>skull, face half eaten by flame. I looked into the heart of darkness, a
>>blackness now consuming all light, the heart of Hatered. I heard the cry,
>>"Barna cipo," rotten brown-shoed, the color of the shoes of the sercet
>>service officers. It was only years later, in psychoanalysis, that I
>>reconstructed that the man had been lynched for wearing his only pair of
>>shoes -- a deadly color at the time.
>>So, as a young '56er, were you to ask me of the revolution, the last phrase
>>would use is a "glorious uprising against Communism." And I would be
>>-- for me it was my nation reduced once again to animal-like fratricide.
>>this view is far from history -- far from historical fact. As we are still
>>not suffciently distanced, nor free from the vicissitudes and feelings that
>>color those days. The Revolution was, in fact, the first glorious
>>to Russian tyranny. But there were also criminal elements -- prisoners of
>>crime let loose to gut the Corvin. There was also, especially as the
>>uprising waned, fascist elements. Graffiti on the wall -- "Moshe, you will
>>die before you reach Auschwitz."
>>Whether the Revolution foreshadowed the cataclysmic changes of 1989 is not
>>yet sure. It is a fact, that especially among those who escaped and looked
>>longingly backward toward Transdanubia, across heaving borders and heaving
>>seas, it was "glorious," as much as 1848 was "glorious," and tragic, as any
>>"A People's Tragedy" by Imre Madacs. But history, from the mist of
>>mythology, may draw different conclusions as even today the American
>>Revolution is rewritten. "The American Revolution: How Revolutionary Was
>>It?" asks a recent book from a historian from the Universityof Worchester.
>>We have the right, all of us, to cry for our pain, and also to ask -- '56s:
>>revolutionary was it? After romanticism and mythology wane, will it be seen
>>as a counter revolution, a patriotic revolt, or a mere skirmish. Will it
>>echo down as the germ, foreshadowing of the changes of 1989. Or will it be
>>seen as a mere slide into the 40 year deep bowl of "gulyas communism." Will
>>the Hungarian history of this century be remembered by 1956, or perhaps by
>>1944? The sheer weight of numbers bear strong on true history. In 1956
>>nearly 10,000 Hungarians died at enemy hands, in 1944, 600,000 Hungarians
>>died largely at Hungarian hands. Which will be remembered? In flesh or
>>thought? Especially since even the most professional of historians are human
>>and hunger for "the new slant on history," we simply are left to our
>>mythologizing for now, outside the veins of history, which have yet to be
>>But, according to critics in the field of history, definitve texts about the
>>Hungarian Holocaust HAVE already been written. Moment by moment, thematic
>>accounts ranging back to Jewish Emancipation in 1861, and sentences that are
>>jammed with so many facts from Numerus Clausus to Numerus Nullus through
>>1944, that one sentence may yield many pages of cross references, and pages
>>of related information, quotes from newspapers, Parliamentary Decrees, other
>>texts as well as eye-witness accounts --in 8 point font, no less, the facts
>>behind the facts, that reinforce and sustain a backdrop for the main text.
>>Politics of Genocide: The Hungarian Holocaust, Columbia University Press, by
>>Randolph Braham, is one such book. It speaks to the world, because it is
>>written in English. And it speaks to Hungary, because it has been
>>I know of no such multiple volume work in English about the Revolution, one
>>that may definitively speak to the world. A group effort, led by the
>>of one like Braham, is imperative while those who experienced 1956 in flesh
>>can contribute their recountings. Otherwise, a key to our historical
>>heritage may rest in the hands of Revisionists, a movement that tried to
>>discolor the historical facts of 1944. One feels the craving for the
>>It is wonderful that you can demythologize the truth but when do you know
that it is the truth ?
>> * * *
>>Laszlo Petrovics-Ofner is a Hungarian-American novelist and psychologist
>>living in Budapest. His first novel, Broken Places (Atlantic Monthly
>>Press), is a collection of oral histories from his family spanning from
>>WWII to 1956. He is currently at work on his second novel dealing with the
>>Americanization of a Hungarian emigre youth.
>>The Hungary Report is free to readers. To subscribe, send an email
>>message to the following Internet address:
>>containing (in the body of the message, not in the headers) the
>>Conversely, to stop receiving Hungary Report, simply send to the same
>>address (in the body of the message) the single word
>> Please note: all mailing lists suffer from frequent "error"
>> addresses. If we have problems with sending to your address more
>> than one week in a row, we may remove you from the list. If you
>> haven't received the report for more than one week, feel free to
>> enquire directly to Rick Bruner > (but
>> please wait for at least a week, as we're also occassionally
>> late in getting the thing out sometimes :)
>> * * *
>>Back issues of The Hungary Report are available on the World-Wide Web
>>and via FTP
>> * * *
>>The entire contents of The Hungary Report is copyrighted by the
>>authors. Permission is granted for not-for-profit, electronic
>>redistribution and storage of the material. If readers redistribute
>>any part of The Hungary Report by itself, PLEASE RESPECT AUTHORS'
>>BY-LINES and copyright notices.
>>Reprinting and resale of the material is strictly prohibited without
>>explicit prior consent by the authors. Please contact the authors
>>directy by email to enquire about resale rights.
>> * * *
>>For information on becoming a corporate sponsor of The Hungary
>>Report, contact Rick E. Bruner or Steven Carlson.
>>Feedback is welcome.
>>Rick E. Bruner, Creator >
>>Steven Carlson, Publisher >
>>Jennifer Brown, Co-editor >
>>Krisztina Fenyo, Co-editor >
>>Tibor Vidos, Columnist >
Telematrix, Perth, Western Australia
|+ - ||100,000? (mind)
As the Million Men March made it clear, counting the number of people
actually present at a public demonstration is quite hard. But from all
available reports, the number of people present at Csurka's annual
be-in was somewhere between 20,000 and 40,000, significantly below the
100,000 that we hear from siliconvalley.com. This figure is quite
consistent with the actual weight of MIE1P which is well below the 5%
minimum required for electability.
|+ - ||Magyar culture (mind)
Does anyone have a handle on the cultural evolution of the Magyar people
before and after their migrations from the Asian steppes to the Danubian
plains? Would like to know inter-relations of family, clan, tribe, etc.
What were their staple foods? Domestic animals? Clothing, housing, tools,
weapons? What was their pre-Christian religion like? Ceremonies,
rituals? Did it include shamans or other reilious leaders?
Please send any bits you have to offer, they can be fit into the larger puzzle.
Thanks, Don Maroc
|+ - ||Re: 56-invasion (mind)
> And this message came personally from Eisenhower, saying it openly that
> "America does not like if small countries start business what is to big for
>I should like to know what could have been the source of this info? I
>accept, that this information may not be correct, but in this case, what
>did he misunderstand? Did E. say anything like that, how and when and where ?
The closest thing I came to the source of this info was in a Hungarian
emigre paper I read quite a few years ago. The article mentioned that
it was an American Congressamn speaking to a Hungarian audience
way back in the '60s. I'm not sure what the occasion was: either
running for re-election, or it was during the commemoration of the
uprising (or both!). Anyway, as I recall, the Congressman said he had
seen the incriminating State Dept cable which was an answer to some
repeated cables from Tito, asking what the intention of Americans was,
or something like that. The American cable could only be interpreted as
a green light to the Soviet invasion. Perhaps it was some kind of
"trade" in exchange of the Soviets not interfering in the Suez Canal
crisis. This only goes to point out again the unfortunate timing of the
uprising. But then, what's new in Hungary's last 500 years?
Anyway, the newspaper article also mentioned something about several attempts
to locate that cable in various archives since that Congressman's
revelation, to no avail. The politician in question was I think from
the Midwest and probably long since dead. His name was in the article,
but I don't remember it. Perhaps historians researching 1956, such as Peter
Hidas, might come up with something yet. Or perhaps Stephen Sisa might
know more about it.
|+ - ||Re: Magyar culture (mind)
>Does anyone have a handle on the cultural evolution of the Magyar people
>before and after their migrations from the Asian steppes to the Danubian
>plains? Would like to know inter-relations of family, clan, tribe, etc.
>What were their staple foods? Domestic animals? Clothing, housing, tools,
>weapons? What was their pre-Christian religion like? Ceremonies,
>rituals? Did it include shamans or other reilious leaders?
>Please send any bits you have to offer, they can be fit into the larger puz=
>Thanks, Don Maroc
Try the following works. I will send you a list in Hungarian if you can
read Hungarian text.
Bartha, Antal. Hungarian Society in the 9th and 10th Centuries. Budapest
: Akademiai Kiado, 1975.
=46odor, Istv=E1n. In Search of a New Homeland; The Prehistory of the Hungar=
People and the Conquest. Budapest: Corvina, 1975.
Macartney, C. A. The Medieval Hungarian Historians : A Critical and
Analytical. Cambridge, Eng. : University Press, 1953.
Sinor Denis, "The Earliest Period of Hungarian Turkic Relations," Hungarian
History - World History. ed. Gyorgy Ranki. Budapest: Akademiai Kiado,
Vambery, Armin. Hungary in Ancient, Mediaeval, and Modern Times. London :
T. Fisher Unwin, 1886.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
|+ - ||Re: 56-invasion (mind)
>> And this message came personally from Eisenhower, saying it openly that
>> "America does not like if small countries start business what is to big for
>>I should like to know what could have been the source of this info? I
>>accept, that this information may not be correct, but in this case, what
>>did he misunderstand? Did E. say anything like that, how and when and where ?
>The closest thing I came to the source of this info was in a Hungarian
>emigre paper I read quite a few years ago. The article mentioned that
>it was an American Congressamn speaking to a Hungarian audience
>way back in the '60s. I'm not sure what the occasion was: either
>running for re-election, or it was during the commemoration of the
>uprising (or both!). Anyway, as I recall, the Congressman said he had
>seen the incriminating State Dept cable which was an answer to some
>repeated cables from Tito, asking what the intention of Americans was,
>or something like that. The American cable could only be interpreted as
>a green light to the Soviet invasion. Perhaps it was some kind of
>"trade" in exchange of the Soviets not interfering in the Suez Canal
>crisis. This only goes to point out again the unfortunate timing of the
>uprising. But then, what's new in Hungary's last 500 years?
>Anyway, the newspaper article also mentioned something about several attempts
>to locate that cable in various archives since that Congressman's
>revelation, to no avail. The politician in question was I think from
>the Midwest and probably long since dead. His name was in the article,
>but I don't remember it. Perhaps historians researching 1956, such as Peter
>Hidas, might come up with something yet. Or perhaps Stephen Sisa might
>know more about it.
Try to locate Janos M. Rainer's article entitled THE YELTSIN DOSSIER:
SOVIET DOCUMENTS ON HUNGARY in the Spring 1995 BULLETIN of the Woddrow
Wilson International Center for Scholars, Washigton, D.C.
In a few days I will try to send you some interesting tid-bits.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal