Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: XIX C. & XXI C. (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: guaranteed annual income (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: XIX C. & XXI C. (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Va'ci Utca (Was Orange Blood) (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
5 New Anthro of Europe list (mind)  94 sor     (cikkei)
6 Cicero, Arendt, Kant & Cato (mind)  47 sor     (cikkei)
7 Istvan Kertesz (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
8 Budapest Zoo (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
9 Relative backwardness (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
10 Cognitively challenged (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Relative backwardness (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Kempinski Hotel (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: XIX C. & XXI C. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: XIX C. & XXI C.
From: greg
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 08:00:38 -0800
In article > ,
>Charles writes:
>> And I know of no country, that takes the position that work is
>> for those able to work.
>Last time I looked there was no law in this country requiring one
to be

most countries/states have laws concerning "visbile means of
support", so
that someone without investments and without a job and not in
receipt of
social welfare payments woud be considered "vagrant". are there no
against vagrancy in the usa today?

+ - Re: guaranteed annual income (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sat, 21 Jan 1995 16:16:05 -0800 > said:
>I'm missing something.  How is a GAI different from supporting people who
>are able work?
--I gather that your question should have been:  How is GAI different
from supporting people who are able to work?  rather than How is GAI
different from supporting people who aren't able to work.

--We're going to get far away from Hungary, but briefly, The GAI would
only apply to those for whom work was next door to impossible or to those
whose employment was marginal.  Right now, the Earned Income Tax Credit
performs some of the functions of a GAI, allowing underemployed working
people to keep most of what they earn.  There has been a revived interest
in the poverty literature on a negative income tax.  Either approach
embodies a strong work incentive.  There are reasons to support the poor,
but they do not involve a MORAL committment to support people who simply
would choose not to work or who could work if they really had to do it.
There are good economic and political reasons to reduce the bureaucracy
and deal with poverty through a negative income tax.  This isn't a
very thorough explanation of a complicated subject, but I am trying
to be brief.

+ - Re: XIX C. & XXI C. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sun, 22 Jan 1995 01:54:57 GMT > said:
>most countries/states have laws concerning "visbile means of
>support", so
>that someone without investments and without a job and not in
>receipt of
>social welfare payments woud be considered "vagrant". are there no
>against vagrancy in the usa today?
--Yes, but they are rarely enforced.  One exception is when the vagrant
is jailed when there is no other way to provide him or her shelter, food,
and medical care in the winter.  This used to be more common, particularly
in rural areas where there are few shelters.

+ - Re: Va'ci Utca (Was Orange Blood) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi Karcsi,

You ask:

>        Are you sure that it was 10 years ago that the first MacDonalds opened
>in Hungary? I would have sworn that it was only about 6 years ago.
>        I`ve eaten there aswell. The food`s not bad, but the prices are
>ridiculous! I remember about 7 years ago when the whole family (of 4) ate a
>2 course ebe'd in Pest (hus leves and csirke porkult with a large dish of
>oborka salata) for less than 500 forint. Now for the same amount of money
>you can just about afford a Big Mac and, if you lucky, a small coke!

Often times I wonder if I am Hungarian or not.  I don't think I could pass
for a native of any part of Hungary for more then ten minutes, even if I
made the supreme sacrifice of cutting my beard and hair and getting the
right clothes.  And I speak, what I've been told is clear, if rather old
fashioned, Hungarian.  I also hate all forms of patriotism.  Yet, I am
Hungarian enough to lament.  To describe food one gets on Vaci Utca as 'not
bad', would be an insult even to me, and being an old, crippled hippie, I
don't have much pride.   If only someone could open a place next door that
served 'fasirozott'   or even 'szolonna's poga'csa'*...  Ah, but what am I
talking about?  Where are the old days?

I wouldn't swear to the date, but it was before I got what I laughingly dub
my 'smart person's certificate'  and that was in 1988.  Also Kadar was on
the tube, and I think, still first secretary.  I thought  '85 or '86, but
time is a blurr, the days get shorter as I get older.


*translations and/or descriptions upon request to 
+ - New Anthro of Europe list (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hi , readers of HUNGARY,

I am forwarding this item from ANTHRO-L in case anyone cares.



Date:         Sat, 21 Jan 1995 11:26:14 -0500
Reply-To: TONY GALT >
Sender: General Anthropology Bulletin Board >
Subject:      New Anthro of Europe list
To: Multiple recipients of list ANTHRO-L >
X-UIDL: 790724087.044
Status: U


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+ - Cicero, Arendt, Kant & Cato (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I found this in one of the speeches of Cicero; he describes certain men of high
rank who
         make it look as if the public had owed such a great debt to their
         ancestors that there is still a balance due to the descendants.

This struck me as somehow relevant to the Orange Blood thread of recent memory.

Second, as much as history is discussed here, perhaps this from Arendt's Life
of the Mind is of interest:

        In Kant judgement emerges as "a peculiar talent which can be practised
        only and cannot be taught." [...] "An obtuse or narrow-minded person,"
        Kant believed, "...may indeed be trained through study, even to the
        extent of becoming learned.  But as such people are commonly still
        lacking in judgement, it is not unusual to meet learned men who in the
        application of their scientific knowledge betray the original want,
        which can never be made good."        [bracketed ellipses mine]

A paragraph later:

        Here we shall have to concern ourselves...with the concept of history,
        but we may be able to reflect on the oldest meaning of this word,
        which, like so many other terms in our political and philosophical
        language, is Greek in origin and derived from *historein*, to inquire
        in order to tell how it was--*legein ta eonta* in Herodotus.  But the
        origin of this verb is again Homer (Iliad XVIII) where the noun
        *histor* ("historian" as it were) occurs, and that Homeric historian
        is the *judge*.

        If judgement is our faculty for dealing with the past, the historian is
        the inquiring man who by relating it sits in judgement over it.  If
        that is so, we may reclaim our human dignity, win it back, as it were,
        from the pseudo-divinity named History of the modern age, without
        denying history's importance but denying its right to being the
        ultimate judge.

        Old Cato...has left us a curious phrase which aptly sums up the
        political principle implied in the enterprise of reclamation.  He said
        "*Victrix causa deis placuit, sed victa Catoni*" ("The victorious cause
        pleased the gods, but the defeated one pleases Cato").

The "pseudo-divinity named History", in Arendt's view, typically was "the
notion of *Progress* as the ruling force in human history".  For the purposes
of this list, we can add "the notion of regress" to the pseudo-Pantheon.

+ - Istvan Kertesz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I learned from the Hungarian-language Forum that Istvan Kertesz who has been
an active member of HUNGARY died after a long illness on January 9, 1995. He
was thirty-eight years old.

Eva Balogh
+ - Budapest Zoo (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hello all,

I am doing a favor for a friend who needs to contact the Budapest Zoo.
She also needs to have a translator (maybe).  She is trying to obtain for
a short time (loan) a Tasmanian Devil (for the Philadelphia Academy of
Natural Sciences), and it turns out that only the
Budapest Zoo has one.  If you know the phone number to the zoo, or how to
contact it, and how to translate Hungarian if necessary, please contact

me, Jim Roper at 

or Jackie Eppolitto at (215)299-1034.




James J. Roper                  | "The infliction of cruelty with a
University of Pennsylvania      |  clear conscience is a delight to
Dept of Biology, Leidy Labs     |  moralists. That is why they invented
Philadelphia, PA 19104-6018     |               hell."
            |                      Bertrand Russell
+ - Relative backwardness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Charles Atherton wrote to me:

>--I always enjoy your postings and never have any quarrel with
>their accuracy.  I must say, however, that you are playing a losing
>game.  Most of your antagonists are post-modernists.

Oh, yes, I know. But I truly wish that these post-modernists would start a
discussion group of their own. They could go on and on about ancient Greece
versus Australian aboriginals and other exciting topics. I always thought
that deconstructialism was bad enough--intellectually dishonest nonsense, for
the most part. These deconstructialinists completely ruined literary
criticism for me. Now we have the post-modernists!

I have began contributing to this list about a year ago and I always thought
that it was one of the best discussion groups on the Internet. But lately
more often than not we are not really talking about Hungarian affairs past
and present, most likely because some of the most vocal contributors either
don't know anything about the country or they are not really interested in
it. Right now there are a score of interesting current topics: the hotels;
the leaked briefing of President Clinton on Horn; the Shell Oil Company's
announcement that it is planning to leave Hungary because of unfair practices
by their competitors; the discussion about the election of the president,
whether it should be done by popular vote or by indirect vote by
parliamentary representatives. And this is just to mention a few. Perhaps
some of the people on the list don't realize that most of this news is
readily available either in Hungarian or in English, or both. Even if you
don't know Hungarian there is quite a bit a news in English. Subscribe to
Mozaik, one of HIX's excellent programs where the news is exclusively in
English. If you can handle Hungarian, there are Hirmondo and Kepujsag, both
through HIX. If people on this list followed the news from Hungary our
discussions would be more meaningful. As it stands I know that long-time
contributors are leaving the list because they are fed up with the way things
have been going for the last couple of months.

Eva Balogh
+ - Cognitively challenged (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Norb wrote this gem:

>Tibor Benke writes:
>>  I'm cognitively challenged...
>        Does this mean that you will stop arguing with people on this list
>aren't?  I mean, if you make such a major admission, why would you want to
>continue dwelling on things you don't understand?
>        Norb
>        P. S. I will be overjoyed if this public confession will inspire
>people to "come out of the closet."

I am ready to come out of the closet. I don't really know what "cognitively
challenged" means but if I just use my common sense it just might mean: the
person cannot think adequately. It might just mean deficient in cognitive
powers. And if this is the case, Norb's question is most justified.

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Relative backwardness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tomas writes:

>BTW, if Eastern Europe's backwardness throughout all history is a commonly
>accepted fact, I must have studied under some misguided souls (though none
>of them had Eastern Europe as their field).  I was taught that projecting
>this particular dualistic portrayl back beyond the Enlightenment was

Seems that the projection of backwardness upon Eastern Europe was discussed
previously in the context of the XVIII century onward, wherein it became
apparent that the proponents of historical backwardness weren't even
acquainted with the existance of:

The Catholic University in Trnava (Tyrnau), which was established in 1635,
though transferred to Buda after 1777 (whereupon the Hungarian Academy of
Science came into being, so perhaps aspects of education preceeding 1777
are not to be found amongst the Academy's publications?).

That in 1660 the Catholic University was established in (Kaschau, Cassovia),
that the Collegium Statuum evangolicorum superioris Hungariae was established
in Presov in 1666, and which was famous not only in Hungary but also abroad.

That the Law Academy was established in (Kaschau, Cassovia) in 1669 and
a Juridical Academy was founded in 1783 in Bratislava (Pressburg, Pozsonyi),
which in 1914/1915 became the nucleus of the Law Faculty of the Elizabeth
University which in 1917/1918 was expanded to include a Philosophical Faculty.

That the University in Trnava (Tyrnau) enjoyed great success. Its enrollment
soon after establishment reached 1900 and it had four faculties:
Theology, Law, Philosophy and the Facultas Artium.

The University of Kosice's (Kaschau, Cassovia) original title was
Alma ac Episcopalis Academia Cassoviensis; after 1773 was title was
Alma Episcopalis Universitas Cassoviensis; after 1831 it became the
Regia Academia et Archi-Gymnazium Cassoviense.

+ - Re: Kempinski Hotel (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >  writes:
>Path: ankh.iia.org!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!tequesta.gate.net!sysop
>Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hungary
>Subject: Kempinski Hotel
>Date: 22 Jan 1995 00:11:47 GMT
>Lines: 6
>Message-ID: >
>NNTP-Posting-Host: dffl-1.gate.net
>Keywords: Kempinski
>X-Newsreader: AIR News 3.X (SPRY, Inc.)

>If anybody could give me information regarding the legal ownership of the
>Hotel Corvinus,
>The Kempinski Hotel.
>Thank you

>George E. Kantor

>From conversations with the staff, I believe it to be a 100% German owned
chain. I have no actual proof, nor do I know the name of the parent company. I
do know that there are other Kempinski hotels of similar quality in several
large cities, and I rather like their approach.