Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: A question on periodicals (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
2 Chomsky As Gospel (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
3 Plan B from Outer Space (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Balogh, the socialist (mind)  42 sor     (cikkei)
5 To Peter Hidas (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
6 Information Park (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
7 Information Park in Budapest (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
8 Socialist reform vs. Antibolsevist revolution of 56 (mind)  128 sor     (cikkei)
9 Writing Off the Debt (mind)  49 sor     (cikkei)
10 declassing Hungary (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: A question on periodicals (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dr. Panagiotis Antonopoulos asked about periodicals dealing with Hungarian-
Byzantine relations.  I can't help with periodicals, but I highly recommend

AUTHOR       Makk, Ferenc
 TITLE        The Arpads and the Comneni : political relations between Hungary
                and Byzantium in the 12th century / Ferenc Makk ; [translated
                by Gyorgy Novak ; translation revised by Maurice F. Cassidy and
                Istvan Petrovics ; Hungarian text revised by Pal Engel]
 PUBLISH INFO Budapest : Akademiai Kiado, 1989.
 DESCRIPT'N   213 p. : ill. ; 25 cm.
 NOTE         Includes bibliographical references (p. 181-201) and index.
 SUBJECTS     Hungary --Foreign relations --Byzantine Empire.
              Byzantine Empire --Foreign relations --Hungary.
              Byzantine Empire --History --Comneni dynasty, 1081-1185.
 LC NO        DB926.3.B9 M33 1989.
 OCLC #       21375584.

Hope this helps and good luck with your research!

Tom Angi, Dayton OH
+ - Chomsky As Gospel (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I guess I am not the only one to get a kick out of hearing Dr Pellionisz
quote Chomsky on the evils of capitalist robbery and exploitation.  This
is really quite funny.  Maybe Dr Pellionisz is turning Bolshie on us?
Chomsky is pretty good, but there is much better stuff on the evils of
capitalism in the works of Trotsky and Lenin.  And if you want to get
the real low-down on capitalist wreckers and saboteurs, the Collected
Trial Speeches of Vishinsky are a must read.  Dr Pellionisz might find
a real kindred spirit there.

Assuming Dr Pellionisz is quoting him faithfully, this is what Chomsky
says about the countries of Eastern Europe:

> That is the IMF system.  If we can get them to accept that, they will
> be very easily exploitable, and will move toward their new role as a
> kind of Brazil or Mexico.

This was probably intended by Chomsky as a dire warning, but perhaps in
this case it is Chomsky who is suffering from first-world tunnel vision.
Mexico may seem like the epitome of backwardness for Chomsky, but for
much of Eastern Europe it would be a step up to rise to Mexican standards.
I am not sure if Chomsky is even aware that Mexico's per capita GNP is
already 17% higher than Hungary's, and life expectancy in Mexico is also
higher.  Hungary is still just a tad ahead of Brazil on those same
statistics, but Brazil is catching up fast.

In Dr Pellionisz' words:

----End of Chomsky--------End of Chomsky--------End of Chomsky--

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Plan B from Outer Space (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On the theory that almost anything beats paying what you owe, the
Bulgarians apparently got a handle on the debt problem.  Dr Endrey
might be interested in the latest innovative approach to getting
rid of the national debt in one fell swoop.  Mind you, this is just
a backup option, in case the IMF lawsuit idea does not work out.

The item below is from yesterday's AP newswire.

Gabor Fencsik

    SOFIA, Bulgaria (AP) -- Talk about foreign aid!
    Lured by three self-styled mediums, about 1,500 people gathered
 at an airfield in northern Bulgaria on Monday, awaiting the arrival
 of eight space ships piloted by extraterrestrials, police Maj.
 Stoyan Marinov said.
    Among other things, state TV reported, the mediums promised that
 the aliens would help this poor Balkan country pay its $12.9
 billion foreign debt.
    The crowd gathered in Shtraklevo, 200 miles northeast of the
 capital, Sofia, after three local women -- Radka Trifonova, Zdravka
 Krumova and Ekaterina Nikiforova -- declared that space ships from
 distant galaxies would land at 11 a.m.
    The mediums, wearing identical dresses they had sewn for the
 occasion, waited along with the crowd.
    Nothing came.
    Bulgaria's BTA news agency said that 30 minutes after the
 scheduled arrival, the three told the crowd that warplanes flying
 in the region were scaring off the aliens.
    After an hour had passed, they said the aliens weren't coming
 because President Zhelyu Zhelev had declined to meet with them.
    Police had to usher the women away from the angry crowd,
 although Marinov said there was no violence.
    Like elsewhere in the former Soviet bloc, despair and
 uncertainty over the future has made Bulgaria fertile territory for
 would-be seers and psychics. Self-proclaimed mediums who claim to
 communicate with extraterrestrials or to treat diseases are widely
+ - Re: Balogh, the socialist (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>  But I have grown up since--today I can't even admire my namesake's
> fervent socialist beliefs.

I haven't got ideological beliefs. I accept the Marxist
theory to be correct, until it is shown not to describe
the present systems and future possibilities adequately.
So far the main arguments against it:
1/ socialism has never worked yet anywhere.
    -  socialism per definition is a more democratic system
       than any other, as such it has never existed yet,
        so its successrate cannot be evaluated yet;
        this is not a valid point in denying its future
        existence, history has shown that new structures
        come about periodically.
2/ human nature is not somehow up to such a system
     -  the marxist theory did not envisaged a new type
        of human for the transformation of capitalism,
        it relies on the basic uniformity of human needs
        and "selfishness".

I know there are more "academic" dialogues, but this is what
one can encounter on the streets of Budapest or Manchester.

I think it is sad if someone looses the motivation/wish
after "growing up" to live in a world without the senseless
suffering of millions. People need a future and heartwarming
ideas about it, this need is not satisfied or just crudely
substituted     in the present
system, which produces masses of physically/emotionally
disturbed and unhappy people even in the countries which
are supposedly the richest.  (Look at "Aryan Nation" and
fundamentalist groups in the US - and their reflections
in Hungary)    Are you all still that sure, that this is
all irrelevant?   How can an intelligent and caring
person "fervently" believe in this system and not
searching for better options?
I'm sorry, just trying to comprehend...

+ - To Peter Hidas (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Peter (Hidas),

You wrote back to me:

>While I agree with your evaluation of the revolution of 1956, the evaluation
> that is presented in your September 12 communication, I regret that you
> it
>necessary to tell me...

Admittedly, the letter bear the solutation "Dear Peter," but its contents
really wasn't addressed to you personally. I simply wanted to clarify my
stand on the Hungarian revolution for the benefit of those who don't know me
and my views as well as you do.

Lazy me! I really should collect my thoughts on my "escape" story and send it
to you. It will come, don't fret.

Eva (Balogh)
+ - Information Park (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

    I would like to know more about the Information Park,
         which is, as I understand it, the beautiful VISION
              yet to be realized of Hungarian Premier Gyula Horn.
    Thank You.
                           Cordially, Katalin.

                Remain beautiful!
+ - Information Park in Budapest (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

    I would like to know more about the Information Park,
         which is, as I understand it, the beautiful VISION
              yet to be realized of Hungarian Premier Gyula Horn.
    Thank You.
                           Cordially, Katalin.

                Remain beautiful!
+ - Socialist reform vs. Antibolsevist revolution of 56 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

As its anniversary, the 23rd of October is nearing upon us again, I
am glad for the readers that those historical events are brought into
some international limelight. 1956 richly deserves it, as it was the
first deadly blow on communism. Western civilization is still deeply
in debt for the "Hungarian Freedom Fighters" (who were, btw,
featured as the "Man in the Year" of Time Magazine, but I don't recall
they featured them as "Socialist Revolutioners" :-). They sacrificed
their life against 26 Soviet Tank batailons . In fact, considering the
cost of the final deadly blow on communism (SDI, the hyperescala-
tion of arms race; amounting beyond $3 TRILLION), the case is strong
to have Hungary's $30 Billion debt to the West written off -- as a
mere 1% of the cost of "beating communism" that 1956 extremely
well earned. Thus Hungary not only has the moral "high ground"
against the IMF as it declassed our Homeland into a "Third World
country", but she also has the doubled perfect justification for
writing off $30 billion, as compensation for 1% of the costs of beating
communism. The antibolsevist revolution was done with blood, in the
streets of Budapest in 1956. (I was not in the remote village of Pecs,
I lived in Budapest in the dead center [Baross utca 105. III. em 19.]
of the triangle of "Radio in Brody Sandor utca", "Corvin Koz" and
"Koztarsasag Ter" and roamed the streets day and night. Thus,
heroes of the Hungarian Freedom Fighters, who waged the armed
revolution and fought for independence, are indelibly etched in my
memory. I owe THEM to slap in the face of anybody trying to frame
1956 as some phony Socialist Revolution: "Over my dead body!"

It is because after 1989 the revolution of 1956 gained a renewed
vital importance (when "post mortem" all the outstanding bills for
beating communism became finally due), that exactly those who
vehemently oppose the revolt of Bankloan-Slaves (in their tipically
unfairly ways; who called Dr. Endrey "senile", dear Ms. Balogh?), the
same characters would also like to degrade the 1956 antibolsevist
revolution and antisoviet freedom fight into "Socialist Revolution".

Sharp readers will spot two disqualifying problems with Ms. Balogh
in her misrepresentation of the 1956 antibolsevist revolution. First, she
admits in yesterday's issue that "she was 20 years old" in 1956 and
confesses "I believed in 'real' socialism when I was twenty". Further,
she states her membership in the "Budapest Revolutionary Student
Council" (as a naive believer in socialism, what we came to term in
our language "hithu kommunista" [religiously communist]). Can a
committed starry-eyed "socialist" who, by her own confession,
wanted to steer events towards her own naive socialist objectives be
taken as an "unbiased witness"? I simply don't think so, just as I
don't accept her witness of Trianon [Nicolson] as an unbiased source
after he confessed "acute distaste" against Hungarians. Ms. Balogh
apparently wishes to be both the historical judge on the revolution,
and an unbiased witness of the case. In my opinion she is a biased
party by her own confession, thus she is excluded as an objective
witness. As its active participant, certainly cannot be the "judge"
of the case. And it is simply preposterous for her to try to be BOTH
a fair witness and an ultimate judge since she is neither.

The other problem with Ms. Balogh's professional misrepresentation
is even more serious for her as a "historian", as she appears to totally
confuse two distinct categories of history.  REFORM is not identical
with REVOLUTION and they must NOT be confused, as she did all
along, including yesterday:

>I said that the revolution was prepared, at least in the minds of the
>people, by people who turned against the Stalinist version of
>socialism and hoped to transform the regime to a socialist one, with
>a human face, to use a later phrase. The intellectuals who were in
>the forefront of the events were socialists; the students were
>socialists, or at least, they didn't want the return of capitalism.
>However, said I, the revolution soon became more than an attempt
>at reforming the then existing socialism. In it fought side by side
>many people of different political persuasions from the far-left to
>the far-right."

Ms. Balogh fails to realize, even 40 years after, that as October of
1956 neared, "REFORM COMMUNISTS" (to use a later phrase)
desperately tried to furnish their doomed "socialism" with a "human
face" (Ms. Balogh in their ranks as an active member), yet the efforts
towards IMPROVING socialism do not constitute "revolution". (There
is no such thing as "socialist revolution" in a "socialist country". The
basics are not changed -in revolution, they are!- efforts toward
improvement may yield acceleration ["evolution"] or revision of
implementation of the basics ["reform"]). Hardliner communists
(Rakosi-Gero) wanted to accelerate (harden) the grip of tyranny
[elesedik az osztalyharc, "a helyzet fokozodik"], while reform-
communists such as Balogh wished for "reforms" (Imre Nagy was
extremely reluctant to join in, probably realized it was far too late
for "reforms" -- the situation already ripened to "revolution"). The
key sentence in her testimony is "the revolution soon became more
than an attempt at reforming the then existing socialism" which
should read (when confusion of "reform" with "revolution" is

"The attempt at reforming the then existing socialism became
something more than a "reform", it became a "revolution"

Ms. Balogh forgot to tell exactly WHEN, WHY and HOW peaceful
attempts at "reforming" socialism (keeping the system but
"improving" its implementation) turned into armed and blody
"revolution" (rejecting any sort of soviet bolsevism no matter what
its "Hungarian version" might be).  The slogan "Had enough for ten
years!" clearly indicates that total rejection that Ms. Balogh timidly
labels as "far right" [fighting side-by-side with far-left, she goes on
with a blatant "Big Lie"]. I did not see anybody from the "far-left"
shooting at the Radio station starting about 10 P.M. on the 23rd of
October FROM THE OUTSIDE. What Ms. Balogh calls "far-left" were the
Hungarian KGB [AVO] officers shooting FROM THE INSIDE of the
Radio, while what she calls "far-right" (and I call the Revolutioners)
were shooting at them FROM THE OUTSIDE.  Likewise, on Oct. 25th at
the Parliament, the "far-left" machine-gunned from rooftops at the
revolutionary masses and innocent bystanders (what she calls "far-
right") on the square, (hundreds of the "far-right" bleed to their
death, the AVO "far-left" disappeared unharmed from the rooftops.
In other words, the "far-left" (the communists, called then
"socialists") and the revolutioners (whom she calls "far-right") were
SHOOTING AGAINST EACH OTHER, not "side-by-side" but against one
another. It was the "reform communists" and the "hardliner
comumunists" who fought "side-by-side", once they realized that
their stalemated and sabotaged "reform-struggle" sparked a massive
armed revolution -- but it was too late.

I turned 13 during those historical days, was innocent and unbiased
since I got a massive dose of communist propaganda at school, but
my father who returned from "malenky robot" from Siberia in 1949
and my mother who could not work in her profession as a teacher
(but was a typist) since she graduated from the "Ranolder" Catholic
Teacher's School, provided me with the sober balancing antidote.
1956 was "showdown-time" for me, some sort of "high noon", and I
did not miss a second of it.  The above is MY eyewitness testimony
- and at least twelve of YOU (but ultimately, many hundreds of milions
of people, called HISTORY [not some clearly biased historians])
are the judge.
+ - Writing Off the Debt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dr Pellionisz writes:

> In fact, considering the cost of the final deadly blow on communism
> (SDI, the hyperescalation of arms race; amounting beyond $3 TRILLION),
> the case is strong to have Hungary's $30 Billion debt to the West
> written off -- as a mere 1% of the cost of "beating communism" that
> 1956 extremely well earned.

I assume this passage means Dr Pellionisz has just dropped his support
for Dr Endrey's IMF lawsuit, and wants instead to hand in an application
for debt relief to the same IMF he was about to sue.  It stands to
reason that Hungary cannot lobby for debt relief, especially debt
relief given as a political reward for past services, while also
engaging the IMF in an adversarial process.

The case for debt relief was indeed strong in 1989-90.  If the MDF
government had started a well-organized lobbying effort in 1990 to have
much of the debt written off, it might have worked.  Many people argued
for this.  Soros and Prime Minister Antall had a long one-on-one talk
shortly after the first free elections of 1990 where Soros was trying
to persuade Antall to do just that.  Soros felt there was going to be a
small window during which such an operation could be pulled off in the
post-Cold War euphoria of the time, provided Hungary plays its cards
right.  Antall never warmed to the idea.  Thought it undignified, or
could not get interested in penny-ante issues like that, or whatever.
He is not around to tell us why.

The window for debt relief has closed long ago.  Especially debt relief
based on a perceived obligation to repay services rendered during the
Cold War.  It is useless to harp on this now.  The basic question in
politics is always "what have you done for us lately?"  Hungary is now
in the position of a country that has repeatedly breached its agreements
with the IMF.  It is also a country that cannot plausibly claim it is
in trouble because it has been saddled with onerous debts left over by
the Communists.  Over 33% of the outstanding debt has in fact been
accumulated since 1990, and the percentage keeps increasing every month.
The debt is growing at twice the rate it was growing in the 1980s.

Even if all of Hungary's debts were wiped off the books tomorrow, on
present trends the debt mountain would be back at its present size in
10 to 15 years.  What will we do then?  Ask for debt relief again?
Based on what?  This false hope for a miraculous cure by somehow
wishing away the debt is what keeps people from recognizing what
the disease is.  A country that is running out of willing creditors
cannot continue to run up big deficits.  It is really that simple.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - declassing Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

It's taken a while, but it's finally occurred to me that renouncing the nationa
debt is a characteristic of a third world nation: so who is it, indeed, who is
`declassing' Hungary, those opposed to such a move, or those advocating it?

--Greg Grose