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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Town of Kisvarda (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
2 Pannonhalma (mind)  108 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Muzsikas (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Another test (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
5 President Iliescu's Spokesman's Reply on the Cseresznye (mind)  96 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: 1956 Memoirs (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
7 Hungarian email pointer (Version: 0.90, Last-modified: (mind)  96 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Town of Kisvarda (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Does anyone on this LISTSERV live in or near the town of Kisvarda?  We
would like to learn more about it and get postcards, travel brochures,
The Genealogy Bug -- POB 6764, Knoxville, TN  37914-0764  USA
           Home of the Acuff Family Archives
Genealogy and History Research Specialist in East Tennessee Counties
+ - Pannonhalma (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

I am planning to distribute the attached text to the English Language media,
but before so doing, I am posting it here and I am asking you to read it with
a critical mind and to let me know if it contains any errors or omissions.

Your Help is much appreciated: Bela Liptak


        My 1000 Year Old High School
        (Bila Liptak*)
This summer the Pope will participate in the millenarian celebrations at
Pannonhalma. It is rumored that he will use this occasion to extend the list
of Hungarian saints by announcing the canonization of Gizella, the wife of
Saint Stephen, first king of Hungary. When Pope Sylvester II sent Saint
Stephen his crown, it was sent through Pannonhalma and nearly a  millennium
later, it was the United States, which guarded this sacred symbol of
Hungarian national existence between 1945 and 1978. The Romans called this
peak the sacred mountain of Pannonia (Mons Sacer Pannoniae), while in 1946,
as a 10 year old resident of her boy's school, I called it Pannonhalma.
       On our way to Pannonhalma, the cart was pulled by two horses, while a
third one was tied to the forage rack. The trip took two days, so when it got
dark, we slept under the cart. I was cold, because I was too young to wear
long trousers. Long trousers for me were some ways off, as I was only
starting on my 8-year gymnasium career and one can wear long trousers only
after graduation. I was not only cold, I was also scared, because the horse
which was tied to the forage rack wanted to bite me. He made strange throaty
noises, while snapping at me with his big white teeth. His eyes were like
light bulbs, they were shining with madness in that scary night, but I did
not dare to wake my Father, he was very tired.
       Next day we reached this fortress of a monastery on top of a hill. The
enormous gate in the ten feet thick stone wall was open and we entered. They
knew who we were, because they immediately took the horse which was tied to
the forage rack. The horse turned out to be my tuition. Then they led me into
the student's hostel. There, in the large, unheated room, there were some
20-30 boys, just as scared as I was. I said goodby to my Father and did not
see him or any other relative until Christmas.
       This boy's school was run by the Benedictine monks. My home room
teacher was a young friar named Edvin Faggyas. He understood how scared and
lonely we all were and did his best to make us feel at home. He read to us,
organized games, told us jokes, even introduced us to his younger sister,
with whom the whole class fell in love.
       In class, Csanad Tsth was sitting next to me. He had curly blond hair.
He was a happy, energetic and good kid. A couple of years later, his father,
Laszls Tsth, a reporter, was hanged by the Commu nists. His crime was, that
he investigated the drugging of Jszsef Mindszenty, the Cardinal who
 confessed his crimes  before a kangaroo court. Later Csanad, a lifetime
friend of mine, became an under secretary of state in Washington and
accompanied Secretary of State Cyrus Vance in 1978, when he returned the Holy
Crown of St. Stephen to Budapest.
       I was always cold and hungry at Pannonhalma. There was no way to heat
those enormous stone walls in the winter, and food, well food was scarce.
Once in a while, we would get rice with a few specs of goose meat, which
still contained the tips of the bird's feathers. That was heavenly. But most
of the time, our meal was a dish of peas, with a cooked layer of bladder-worm
floating on top. For me, learning latin was almost as hard as feeding on
bladder-worm. Yet, I had to, because Father Rezs  would slap me, if I made a
mistake during altar-serving. Every day, before breakfast, I assisted Father
Rezs , as an altar-boy, scared and shivering in my shorts. That was no fun at
all. But afterwards Gabor Vaszary, a student close to graduation, who was in
love with my cousin Mis, would tell me that he felt the same way at my age
and that made me feel better. In 1951, Gabor too was hanged by the
       When I complained about the cold or the food to Father Edvin, he would
tell me:  Last winter, we had a thousand Jewish kids here. We protected them
from the occupying Germans. Now, they had reason to complain, but you don't!
 - he would say. As time passed, I learned more about Pannonhalma and about
the Benedictine monks. They lived their slogan  ora et labora  (pray and
work) and all of their students still emulate them.
       Saint Benedict, an Italian monk, started the first Benedictine
monastery in the 6th century. When the Benedictine monks moved to Pannonhalma
in 996 AD, the Hungarians have already been there for a century, yet in the
West, the region was still called by the name of the ancient Roman province:
Pannonia. The mountain on which their monastery was built, was called the
 Saint Mountain of Pannonia . The monks of Pannonhalma played an important
role in the Christianization of Hungary.
       Saint Martin was born here. King Saint Stephen of Hungary was a
frequent guest and so was his wife Gizella. It was here that King Kalman
welcomed Gottfried's crusaders, it was here that Abbot Ursos fought off the
Tartarian invasion (1207-1243) and it was here last year in 1945, that Abbot
Krizosztom Kelemen saved those Hungarian- Jewish kids.
       The first school in Hungary was established within the walls of this
monastery. King Stephen and Queen Gizella would come here to read the works
of the ancient authors. The first books in Hungary were copied in the
scriptorium of this priory. It was a Benedictine monk from this convent who
wrote down the first Hungarian words in the founding documents of the
cloister of Tihany in 1055 AD. In 1769 the Abbot received the right to give
doctorates in philosophy and theology (ius gra duandi.) The Abbot was also a
member of the Upper House of the Hungarian Kingdom.
       During the war, the Abbot obtained a promise from both the Hungarian
and later from the occupying German authorities, that no military units would
enter the monastery. This allowed him to save the lives of some 1000 Jewish
Hungarians. After the defeat of the Germans, Hungary was occupied by the
Russians. In 1948 Cardinal Mindszenty was arrested. In 1950 Pannonhalma was
nationalized and lost all of her estates. In 1951 two students of
Pannonhalma, Gabor Vaszary and Otts Jezerszky were hanged. In 1953 a number
of Benedictine professors were arrested as  spies.  After the Revolution of
1956 Sandor Sz cs and Ferenc Galambos were sentenced to death and many of my
former classmates emigrated or ended up in jail.
         Today, Pannonhalma is once again doing what it did for a thousand
years. There are 360 students in her gymnasium. Among the 50 professors, 19
are Benedictine monks. Last year eleven monastic fraters were ordained here.
69 friars live in the Abbey, 62 in the home for the elderly. Last year
100,000 tourists visited this 1000 years old high school of mine. This year,
it will be millions.

*The writer is a former Yale professor.
+ - Re: Muzsikas (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On March 16, Bela Liptak wrote movingly of the performance by MUZSIKAS IN
New York City, and particularly the song "Szol a kakas mar," which reso-
nated particularly strongly with Jews in the audience.  No wonder!  It
was written by a Hassidic rabbi, Israel Brody, in the 19th century, whose
fairly elaborate tomb is in one of the Jewish cemeteries in Nagykallo,
northeast of Debrecen.  The anniversary of his death is the occasion for
a pilgrimage by Jews from Debrecen and elsewhere to Nagykallo, where
special prayers are said in the mausoleum, and petitions ("qvittung" in
Yiddish) are written out on little slips of paper and placed in a special
metal container affixed to the tombstone.

Far from a Hungarian folksong being "adopted" by Hungarian Jews, the direc-
tion of influence was the reverse--a Jewish folksong being adopted by gen-
tile Hungarians.  But Bela Liptak's point remains valid--both gentile and
Jewish Hungarians revere the same cultural traditions, which connects both
of them to their agricultural origins.  Whether this is a sufficient basis
for the reconciliation that Bela believes is already underway, only time
will tell.

With best wishes for a Happy Easter and a "sizn, freylichn Pesach,"

Ba'tkay Be'la
+ - Re: Another test (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Fri, 22 Mar 1996, Andy Kozma wrote:

> I wonder if this went through also

Yup.  They both did.

Martha S. Bihari
+ - President Iliescu's Spokesman's Reply on the Cseresznye (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The case of Pal Cseresznyes
Date:   96-03-24 13:04:17 EST
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File:  ILIESCU.DOC (14572 bytes)
DL Time (14400 bps): < 1 minute

                                                Bucharest, March 23rd, 1996

        Dear Mr. Liptak,

        I am replying on behalf of President Iliescu to your e-mail letters of
February 29, 1996, and of March 15, 1996 regarding the case of Mr. Pal
        Your letter, and several other letters, similar in content and even in
language, that the President of Romania received lately, was carefully
examined. Judging upon the content of the letter, you seem to be grossly
misinformed about the facts.
        1. Mr. Cseresznyes was arrested on 17 January 1991. He was found guilty
the Mures county Court of having gravely aggressed, together with other
people, a citizen named Mihaila Cofariu, seriously endangering the life of
Mr. Cofariu and causing him wounds that required, only in its initial phase
10 months of special medical care. As a result, Mr. Cofariu lost completely
his capacity to work and needs the permanent assistance of another person.
        The scene of the beating, that took place right in the front of the loc
Townhall, recorded by an Irish TV-crew, was circulated world-wide shocking
the audience with this example of "Romanian savagery". Only much later and
only half- heartedly was it acknowledged that the victim was an ethnic
Romanian and the aggressors were ethnic Hungarians.
        The fact is that Mr. Cseresznyes was identified without doubt, on that
recording, as taking part to the lynching, and received a fair trial and
eventually a fair punishment for his deeds.
        2. You made reference to the fact that, during those events "the
internationally known author Suto Andras was so badly beaten". This was a
most unfortunate occurrence and the Government expressed its deep regret and
offered him its assistance forthwith. May I add the one ethnic Romanian and
one Ethnic Gypsy, identified as aggressors, were sent to trial
        3. You speak twice in your letter about a "Government staged anti-Hunga
pogrom", referring to the events in Tbrgu Mures in March 1990. Again, you
are grossly misinformed. Facts about those unhappy events were elucidated
long time ago. As a matter of fact, those events were prompted by the
massive crossing of the border between Hungary and Romania by about 10 000
Hungarian citizens, carried in by about 1000 buses and cars, on March 15th
1990, to celebrate, in Romania, the Hungarian national day - a day of very
sad memories for the Romanian. Let me recall for you what the "Government
staged anti-Hungarian pogrom" meant: Three ethnic Hungarians and three
ethnic Romanian died, apparently during or in connection with the events;
about 100 ethnic Hungarians and about 200 ethnic Romanians - i.e. about
twice as many - were wounded.
        For a description of those events and for the context in which they too
place, I attach excerpts from the book written by Mr. Ion Iliescu, President
of Romania, who was the President of the Provisional Council of National
Union at that time and, in that capacity, had the possibility to asses
comprehensively what happened in Tbrgu Mures and why.
        4. There is nothing to prevent Amnesty International to visit him and
report on his condition, in case this organisation expresses such a desire.
Also, there is no ground to suspect ill-treatment in jail and your
insinuation that "he has not been heard from for years" is completely
without any factual support. From my inquires, subsequent to your letter,
Mr. Cseresznyes is in good health and is almost daily visited including by
people belonging to the Democratic Union of Romanian Magyars.
        I hope the information provided in this reply could clarify for you the
facts related to the case of Pal Cserensznyes.

                                                        Sincerely yours,
                                                        Traian Chebeleu
                                        Spokesman for the President of Romania

Attachment Converted: C:\INTERNET\MBOX\ILIESCU2.DOC
+ - Re: 1956 Memoirs (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Professor Liptak,

Last year when you posted your memoirs of the 1956 revolution,
you said that you would post the complete set to be
downloaded.  Did you ever do this?  We would be interested in
them if they are available.

Thank You

Jack and Chris Gergely

+ - Hungarian email pointer (Version: 0.90, Last-modified: (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Archive-name: hungarian/pointer
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: pointer
Bit-listserv-hungary-archive-name: pointer
Version: 0.90 (beta)
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1995/11/21
URL: http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer

 This document summarizes network-related resources of Hungarian
interest, which are accessible via email. Some of the most readily
available sources of information can be found in the archives of
periodical information postings to Usenet; these documents are commonly
known as FAQs (from Frequently Asked/Answered Questions). Knowing the
name of the file you can retrieve it by sending email to
 with the command "send
usenet/news.answers/<ARCHIVE-NAME>" in the message (without the quotes,
and with substituting the actual name for <ARCHIVE-NAME> in the pattern
shown above) - for example, to get the document described below, use

 send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq

 To learn more about the RTFM server just send the command "help" to it
- it will provide step-by-step intstructions on how to use the
archives, on retrieving indexes and so on.

 "Hungarian electronic resources FAQ" is a comprehensive collection
dealing with email, FTP, WWW and other Internet tools; its archive name
is 'hungarian-faq' (and the mail-server command to get it is shown in
the example above).
 If you only have direct access to email then, in order to use the
other tools, you'll need the methods described in "Accessing The
Internet By E-Mail" (Archive-name:
 To get a general introduction to Usenet (with some guides to Internet
as well - and explanation of how they are different, too) see "Welcome
to news.newusers.questions!" (Archive-name: news-newusers-intro).
 For a guide to finding someone's e-mail addresses, see the "FAQ: How
to find people's E-mail addresses" (Archive-name: finding-addresses).
Do notice that it's usually inappropriate to send such blanket requests
to mailing lists; the search tools available give much better chance to
locate addresses sought than posted queries in any case!
 An overview of commercial on-line services in Hungary is available by
John Horvath >
(Archive-name: hungarian/comm-providers).

 The hungarian-faq describes several email lists related to Hungary;
only a brief summary is shown here. Please keep in mind that
subscription requests (and other administrative communications) should
be directed to the server address, NOT to the lists themselves.

 List:  (the HUNGARY LISTSERV list)

 List: HOL (Hungary Online)

 List: hungary-report

 Lists: OMRI-L (Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest)
        MIDEUR-L (Middle European discussion list)

 List: cet-online (Central Europe Today On-Line; email )

 List: CERRO-L (Central European Regional Research Organization)

Server: email to  (Hollosi Information Exchange)
 Lists: HIX is a collection of several separate lists, including
  - MOZAIK, a collection of news items in English
  - various discussion forums in Hungarian language
  - SCM and HUNGROUPS, which are email-accessible archives of the Usenet
    newsgroup soc.culture.magyar and the hun.* national hierarchy,
    respectively; to get a directory listing of these archives (as well
    as that of other HIX lists), send email to  with
    "arch" in the 'Subject:' line. Note that the SENDDOC utility takes
    its parameter from the 'Subject:' of the message (unlike many other
    servers, like the ones described previously, which use the body)!

 Note that this document is available on the
 <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>; homepage for the "Hungarian
electronic resources FAQ" at the HIX WWW-server.
 The latter also provides access for the full FAQ via
 'finger ', and for this brief pointer you are
reading via 'finger ' (notice that you
will likely need to redirect the output to a pager or a file in order
to read it). The Usenet archive name for this document is
 hungarian/pointer .

 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '>
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!