Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX KORNYESZ 265
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-09-21
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 klorozott szervesek, elso resz (mind)  126 sor     (cikkei)
2 klorozott szervesek masodik resz (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: *** KORNYESZ *** #264 (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
4 meadows rovat (mind)  87 sor     (cikkei)
5 (Fwd) East-East NGO Exchange Program (mind)  93 sor     (cikkei)
6 HYPO a szennyviztisztitoban (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)

+ - klorozott szervesek, elso resz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Adalekkent a DDT es tarsai eszmecserehez elobanyasztam nehany nem tul regi
cikk-kivonatot. Ennyi osszefoglalo idegen szakteruletrol nalam sulyos
emesztesi zavarokat szokott okozni. A Tisztalt Tarsasagot kimelendo,
vagassal tovabb tomoritettem ezeket az osszefoglalokat. Persze ennek az a
kockazata, hogy a keszult metszet tul szubjektiv. Kivansagra barkinek el
tudom kuldeni a teljes szoveget. Csupan azt kerem, nevezzetek Barnanak,
ugyanis az a keresztnevem.
Ime a klip:

%A Chevreuil-M %A Garmouma-M %A Teil-MJ %A Chesterikoff-A
%T Occurrence of Organochlorines (Pcbs, Pesticides) and Herbicides (Triazines,
Phenylureas) in the Atmosphere and in the Fallout from Urban and Rural Stations
Of the Paris Area
%J Science of the Total Environment%D 1996%V 182%N 1-3
%X  Paris area in 1992 and in 1993  Fallout rural  gaseous phase PCB
concentrations (0.3-4.9 ng/m(3))  fallout (20-520 ng/l) varied, according to
the local emission, with the temperature and the direction of wind. Compared
to 1986, there were no changes of pollution levels 
 The pollution level of atrazine was close to that found in Europe
and in North America, while the organochlorine and the simazine levels were
higher.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
%A Bidleman-TF%A Jantunen-LM%A Falconer-RL%A Barrie-LA%A Fellin-P
%T Decline of Hexachlorocyclohexane in the Arctic Atmosphere and Reversal of
Air-sea Gas-exchange
%J Geophysical Research Letters%D 1995%V 22%N 3
 A compilation of measurements made between 1979-93 from stations in the
Canadian and Norwegian Arctic and from cruises in the Bering and Chukchi 
seas indicates  HCH has reversed the net direction of air-sea gas exchange to
 the point where some northern waters are now sources of the pesticide to 
the atmosphere instead of sinks.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
%A Fingler-S%A Tkalcevic-B%A Frobe-Z%A Drevenkar-V
%T Analysis of Polychlorinated-biphenyls, Organochlorine Pesticides and
Chlorophenols in Rain and Snow
%J Analyst%D 1994%V 119%N 6
%X Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), organochlorine pesticides and
chlorophenols were measured in samples of rain and snow collected at urban and
suburban/semi-rural locations in the Zagreb City area, Croatia. 
 PCBs were detected in all water (<1-203 ng l(-1)) and particle (40-4155 ng
g(-1)) samples. The only organochlorine
pesticide present in all rain and snow water (1-36 ng l(-1)) and in particle
(7-512 ng g(-1)) samples was gamma-hexachlorocyclohexane as a consequence of
the regular local usage of lindane. A positive correlation was found between
its concentration in the water phase and the average air temperature during the
sampling period. Compounds of the DDT-type, trace amounts of which were
detected in only two rain water samples, were determined in most particle
samples.  The DDE:DDT median concentration ratio in particles was lower than
unity and indicated a recent input of DDT into the atmosphere.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
%A Bidleman-TF%A Walla-MD%A Roura-R%A Carr-E%A Schmidt-S
%T Organochlorine Pesticides in the Atmosphere of the Southern-ocean and
Antarctica, January March, 1990
%J Marine Pollution Bulletin %D 1993%V 26%N 5
%X Chlorinated pesticides in air were measured from the Greenpeace ship
Gondwana between New Zealand and Ross Island, January-March, 1990. Geometric
mean concentrations (pg m-3) were: alpha and gamma-hexachlorocyclohexanes = 4.0
and 3.8, hexachlorobenzene = 60, heptachlor epoxide=0.52,
chlordanes+nonachlors=1.8, p,p'-DDE+p,p'-DDT=0.81. A trend of decreasing
pesticide concentration at higher latitudes was noted.  The low levels of DDTs
found in this study and also by Larsson et al. (1992) during 1988-90 on Ross
Island indicates that atmospheric DDT over the Southern Ocean has dropped
markedly in the last decade.  Recent concentrations of DDTs in Antarctic air
are similar to those in the Arctic.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
%A Ballschmiter-K%A Wittlinger-R
%T Interhemisphere Exchange of Hexachlorocyclohexanes, Hexachlorobenzene,
Polychlorobiphenyls, and 1,1,1-trichloro-2,2-bis(para-chlorophenyl)ethane in
The Lower Troposphere
%J Environmental Science & Technology%D 1991%V 25%N 6
%X Two nearly independent hemispheric compartments exist in the atmosphere for
hexachlorobenzene [HCB; south/north (S/N) ratio of 0.06] and
alpha-hexachlorocyclohexane (alpha-HCH; S/N = 0.09), as base-line measurements
in both hemispheres indicate.  The interhemispheric differences in the profile
of the alpha and gamma isomers of hexachlorocyclohexane can be explained best
by the different HCH products applied worldwide.  Both isomers occur in
technical HCH, the so-called benzene hexachloride (BHC), which is preferably
used in the Northern Hemisphere, and the purified HCH "lindane", consisting of
> 99% gamma-HCH, which is used worldwide.  
results require the conclusion that the interhemispheric
exchange of other compounds with similar physicochemical data as given by HCB
and alpha-HCH must be very slow in the atmosphere if it occurs at all at a
significant level.  
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ti Geographical-distribution of Persistent Organochlorines in Air, Water and
   Sediments from Asia and Oceania, and Their Implications for Global
   Redistribution from Lower Latitudes
Iwata-H  Tanabe-S  Sakai-N Nishimura-A Tatsukawa-R
JN ENV. POLLUTION VL 85 NO 1PG 15-33 PY 1994
AB Persistent organochlorines in air, river water and sediment samples were
   analysed from eastern and southern Asia (India, Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia,
   Indonesia) and Oceania (Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands) to elucidate
   their geographical distribution in tropical environment. 
 Atmospheric and hydrospheric  concentrations of HCHs
(hexachlorocyclohexanes) and DDTs (DDT and its
   metabolites) in the tropical developing countries were apparently higher
   than those observed in the developed nations, suggesting extensive usage of
   these chemicals in the lower latitudes.  
   Distribution patterns of organochlorines in sediments showed smaller spatial
   variations on global terms, indicating that the chemicals released in the
   tropical environment are dispersed rapidly through air and water and
   retained less in sediments. The ratios of organochlorine concentrations in
   sediment and water phases were positively correlated with the latitude of
   sampling, suggesting that persistent and semivolatile compounds discharged
   in the tropics tend to be redistributed on a global scale.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
%A Muir-DCG%A Grift-NP%A Lockhart-WL%A Wilkinson-P%A Billeck-BN%A Brunskill-GJ
%T Spatial Trends and Historical Profiles of Organochlorine Pesticides in
Arctic Lake-sediments
%J Science of the Total Environment%D 1995%V 161
%X Sediment cores were collected from eight remote lakes in Canada, along a
mid-continental transect from 49 degrees N to 82 degrees N, with the objective
of examining latitudinal and temporal differences in deposition of a wide range
of persistent, semi-volatile, organochlorine (OC) pesticides such as DDT,
dieldrin, hexachlorobenzene (HCB), hexachlorocyclohexane (HCH), and toxaphene.
 Concentrations of total DDT (Sigma DDT) in surface sediments (0-1.3 cm depth) 
declined significantly with latitude from 9.7 ng/g (dry wt.)   to 0.10 ng/g 
 Concentrations of other OC pesticides (total HCH, total chlordane,
toxaphene, and dieldrin) were generally in the range of 0.1-3 ng/g, with the
sites at 63 degrees N and 75 degrees N generally having the highest levels. The
profiles of Sigma DDT and total chlorobenzenes in all the mid-continental lakes

showed maxima in slices dated from the late 1970s to the 1980s, which is about
5-10 years later than maxima reported for Lake Ontario.  The results generally
support several of the predictions of the cold condensation hypothesis.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - klorozott szervesek masodik resz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Meg nehany szo, ez mar szemelyes.
A DDT-t es a HCH-t a negyvenes evek ota hasznaljuk. Akarmilyen
mechanizmussal is, de ezek a joszagok terjednek (talan mert ok is ismerik a
termodinamika teteleit) es valahogy bomlanak is. Fontos kerdes a ket
folyamat sebessegenek az aranya.
Az olyan joszagok, mint peldaul a ken-hexafluorid elelnek ugy tizezer evet.
Gazok, nem is igen akaroznak kimosodni a legkorbol, mennek, ahova a szel
fujja oket. Egy-ket ev alatt a kibocsato felteke felett elegge egyenletesen
elterulnek, olyan oteves idoskalan az eszki-deli felgomb kozotti kulonbseg
is elmosodik es elkezd a szennyezes maszni felfele a sztratoszferaba. Kb
husz ev alatt el is keveredik szep egyenletesen. 
Egy masik veglet lehet a szerves higanyvegyuletek. Azok imadnak ratapadni
valamilyen szilard reszecskere. Ha ezek bejutnak a troposzferaba, nagyreszuk
vissza is kerul az elso esovel a felszinre es elobb-utobb leulnek valahol
egy iszapretegben. Ez nem jelenti azt, hogy nincs tovabb, hiszen a kagylok
furkaljak az iszapot, a kagylot bepuszilja egy ehes hal es uszik tovabb. A
higany tuleli a halat, ideje van, megy tovabb.
A DDT-t es a HCH valahol a fenti ketto kozott van. A HCH-nak velhetoleg
nagysagrend(ekk)el nagyobb a goznyomasa, mint a DDT-nek, ennek megfeleloen
az o legkori transzportja gyorsabb. Mindaddig, mig a sarkok fele haladva
olyan hideggel nem talalkozik, hogy mar az o tenzioja is elhanyagolhato.
Nyilvan ott sem all meg, porhoz hozzaragadva utazhat tovabb magasabb
delkorok fele, de ez mar lassub folyamat. A DDT alighanem mar Michigan-ben
is fazik, ezzel magyarazhato a ket vegyulet eloszlasanak kulonbozosege
Kanadaban.
Ezeknek a vegyuleteknek a legkori transzportja a tropusokon gyorsabb.
Reszben azert, mert melegebb van, a joszagok goznyomasa nagyobb. Reszben
pedig azert, mert a gyorsan visszagozolgo eso "vizgozdesztillacioval" eleg
sok szemetet felrant magaval. Hamar vissza is hullik, de azert szaz
kilometer is valami.
Mindenesetre, ha a mintegy 20 eve nem hasznalt DDT Kanadaban ekkora
eloszlasbeli kulonbseget mutat (9.7 ppb az 50. eszaki szelessegnel es 0.1
ppb a 80-iknal), kell hogy legyen egy hatekonyabb globalis
transzportmechanizmus is. Itt fontos a globalis kifejezes, arra a
mechanizmusra gondolok, amelyik kb harminc ev alatt ugy szetszorta a DDT-t,
hogy a hatvanas evekben mar a jegesmacikban is ki lehetett mutatni. Erre a
celra kivaloan megfelel egy lebego anyagoktol suru vizaramlat. Lebego anyag
lehet  a macskacapatol kezdve a szervetlen hordalekig barmi. 
 Szamomra ezek a cikkek azt sugalljak, hogy azok a szerencsetlen
malariaszunyog-permetezok a sajat jovojuk  erdekeben jobban tennek, ha nem
hasznalnak azokat az olcso vacakokat, de a globalis budzsere nehany eves
tavlatban nemigen van hatasuk. Mi meg mindig azt a szemetet gurgulazzuk fel,
amit hajdanan kiszortunk. Vagy meg most is szorjuk! "Parizsba beszokott az
osz", igy hat varhato, hogy az Alpok csapadekvizeiben merheto klorozott
szervesanyagtartalom a szilva araval egyetemben csokkenni fog.
Bizonyara tul erzekeny vagyok ebben a kerdesben. Ugy erzem nincs erkolcsi
alapunk arra, hogy a fejlodo orszagokat eliteljuk azert, mert csak ilyen
megoldasra van penzuk, mert csak ilyen megoldas jut eszukbe. Ha nem tudjuk
megoldani a gondjukat es az o "megoldasuk" nem okoz nagyobb karokat,  mint
amilyeneket "mi, fejlettek" okozunk magunknak (meg nekik), hat hagyjuk oket
bekeben! Hogy konkretabb legyek: amig a napi tizmillio tonna koolaj tulnyomo
resze a fejlettek hazatajan eg el, kifejezetten csunya dolog a bozotegetokre
mutogatni, hogy ok szennyezik a legkort. (bar azert ok sem elhanyagolhatoak)
Ugyanigy a DDT. Mi mar nem hasznaljuk. Nagyszeruen nemesek vagyunk!
Hasznalunk mast: Parizs kornyeki csapadekban mert adatok 1992-93-bol
(nanogramm/liter) lindan :5-350, atrazin 5-380, simazin 5-650. 
EGYEBKENT OTVOS  EDIT NEM IS MONDTA, HOGY A SZERECSENEK
 FELELOSEK AZ "ORGANOKLOR-SZENNYEZODESUNKERT" csupan 
csak az en szememben volt voros poszto az "Afrikara mutogatnak, hogy onnan 
jon a szennyezodes"
Azzal tokeletesen egyetertek, hogy a DDT terjedeset  vizsgalni  kell. Azert,
mert egy szennyezodes-tipus modellvegyulete: lassan bomlo, kis goznyomasu,
vizben alig oldodo joszag. Ilyenbol van meg egypar, csak nem hasznaljuk oket
olyan hosszu ideje.

Laszlo Barna
+ - Re: *** KORNYESZ *** #264 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Hat a kerdes inkabb naiv, mint provokativ, mert kerdezem en, miert
> hasznalnak otthon olmozott benzint, miert hasznalnak olyan vegyuleteket
> szerte a vilagban, amirol tudott, hogy karos, miert szennyezik
> egyaltalan a levegot, stb...Mert olcsobb, mert egyszerubb, mert nincs
> masra penz, mert csak az orrukig latnak stb...

Persze, sokkal szebb meg jobb lenne, ha szepen egeszsegesen halnanak ehen.

MaXX
+ - meadows rovat (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

WAITING FOR THE FROST

The sun rises in a new place every morning now.  Its first beam hits the garden
at a southerly angle.  It's equinox time, and Old Sol is distancing himself
quickly, every day lower in the sky.  Since June we've lost four hours of
light; we'll lose another four by December.

This brief moment between summer and autumn throws our farm into a strange
mixture of hurry and stillness.  The hurry comes from the pressure of the
harvest.  The stillness comes as we hold our breaths, and all nature seems to
hold still too, waiting for the first frost.

When we started farming in this valley in the 1970s, the first killing frost
came like clockwork during the third week of September.  Our year was adjusted
to that date.  It determined when we started the pepper seeds indoors in
February and when we thought we could get away with the last corn planting in
June.

Lately though, global warming or something is playing havoc with the schedule.
Some years we get weeks of grace.  The frost has held off as late as October
12.  But we can't count on that.  Last year it froze hard right on the equinox
-- and then we had a whole frost-free month.  If we had covered our tomato
plants that one chilly night, we could have gone on harvesting almost up to
Halloween.

So we've turned into gamblers, planting a few late crops that we know might get
zapped, or, if we're lucky, maybe not.  We sniff the afternoon air anxiously
and keep a close eye on Mount Ascutney.  Most of the old houses in the valley
face that mountain, "our mountain."  One of the first things our neighbors
taught us when we moved in was to watch it on possible frost nights.  "It gets
a certain look," they said.  "It gets super-clear, like it's suddenly moved two
miles closer.  Then you know we're going to Get It."

So far the mountain is staying in its place, but we're scurrying.  The tomatoes
are ripening at about a bushel a day, so every night there's canning to do.
Last weekend we had a Tomato Taste Test.  Fourteen varieties, cut into wedges,
ripe and juicy, arranged along the kitchen counter with a clipboard to record
our judgements and those of our neighbors and anyone else we could snare.  The
old-fashioned Brandywine won hands down, but a surprise high finisher was Big
Beef, one of those gorgeous modern types, easy to grow and high-yielding, which
we usually assume are tasteless.  This one isn't!

The peppers are ripening too, and we have long debates about their relative
hotness and how many to throw into the salsa.  The table on the back porch is
piled with the brown pods of dry beans.  When we get a minute, we stop and
shuck a few.  Glass jars are lined up to receive them -- Red Kidneys, Black
Beans, Vermont Cranberries, Maine Yellow Eyes, Swedish Brown Beans, speckled
Wren's Egg pole beans.  Such a beautiful array, like multicolored garden
jewels.

Because any night we could Get It, we try to scoop up every green bean and cob
of sweet corn and either savor it for dinner or blanch it for the freezer,
which is just about full now.  We won't have green beans or fresh corn much
longer, or flowers.  So we fill the house with bouquets of dahlias, cosmos,
bright red zinnias.  No point in stinting.  Enjoy every blossom while it lasts.

The crickets still sing outdoors at night, the gnats swarm around our faces in
the day.  We dash around, spreading compost, tilling up the spaces where
onions, garlic, and other early crops grew, sowing winter cover crops.  We have
to get the plastic on the hoop house before frost.  We have to harvest the
pumpkins.  The late raspberries need picking and the early ones need pruning.
Grab the basil and make it into pesto!  Last chance for zucchini bread!  Hurry!

The birds are hurrying with us; the phoebes chasing the last flies, stocking up
for the trip south, the bluejays diving for berries, the goldfinches hanging
upside down from the drooping sunflowers.

And yet there are long moments when I just stop.  The breathlessness of the
land stops me.  The greens are fading ever so slowly, beginning to hint at the
riotous oranges and reds underneath.  The grasses and wildflowers are just
about to shatter their ripened seeds.  There are no bird songs.  The brook that
was rushing last spring is a bare trickle now.  The wind stops, the sun comes
through the pines at its new angle, and I know I'd better soak it in.  All this
will be gone soon.  Be quiet, slow down, love it while it lasts.

It should be a sad time, and by November it will be.  But the frost hasn't come
yet.  We can still graze on cherry tomatoes while we work in the garden.  The
yard is cheery with marigolds and gloriosa daisies and even roses.  The garden
overflows with the abundance that grew from our work and the blessings of the
soil and sun and rain.  The kitchen is aglow with red tomatoes, purple
eggplant, green and yellow peppers.

For now -- and in just about a week the trees all over the valley will join in
-- it's a time for celebration.

(Donella H. Meadows is an adjunct professor of environmental studies at
Dartmouth College.)
+ - (Fwd) East-East NGO Exchange Program (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

East-East NGO Exchange Program

(please note that the deadline for receiving applications to the
REC Head Office is September 25, 1996.)
We are pleased to announce the second phase of the East-East NGO
Exchange Program (EENEP), previously known as the Environmental
Leadership Training Program. Following please find the description of
the program and application procedure for interning with the host NGOs
for this period.

What is the East-East NGO Exchange Program?
In November 1995, the Environmental Partnership for Central Europe
(EPCE) and the Regional Environmental Center for Central and Eastern
Europe (REC) initiated the Environmental Leadership Training Program.
This pilot project involved six host NGOs and six interns and is
currently proceeding very well. On the basis of experiences with this
pilot project we have extended the program for 1996-1997 to include
more countries and more host NGOs.
The East-East NGO Exchange Program allows members from less
experienced environmental NGOs to stay with more experienced NGOs in
the CEE region for up to one month. The purpose of the program is to
develop management and leadership skills, to exchange experiences in
various fields of expertise and to establish links for future
cooperation with the host organizations.
During the program, interns will join in the activities of the host
organization and will receive training from experienced members of the
groups. They will get an inside view into the operations of the NGOs
and the preparations for an ongoing campaign or project.
The EENEP includes a visit to the offices of the Environmental
Partnership for Central Europe and the Regional Environmental Center
in the country of the host organization. A meeting of host NGOs will
be held from September 13 to 15, 1996 where they will be given a
complete introduction to EENEP and training for hosting an intern.

During this program the interns will have an opportunity to: 
     develop project management skills 
     get an inside view into the everyday work of a well-established
     and experienced NGO exchange experiences develop regional
     cooperation with other groups in CEE participate in an ongoing
     project or campaign 

Host organizations have the following profile: 
     well-established with considerable experience in environmental
     issues an office with permanent staff ongoing projects working
     space for an intern 

Who can apply?   You should apply if: 
     you have at least 1 year experience working in an environmental
     NGO you have good English language skills or know the language of
     the host NGO you have clear ideas about your objectives for the
     internship you have the support of your NGO you are a citizen of
     one of the participating countries (magyarorsz benne van - diana)

How to apply?   Send a letter of application, in English, explaining: 
     your motives for applying for the internship program 
     your expectations from the program 
     the specific topics on which you want to focus during the four
     week period which host organization(s) you would like to work
     with your experience with environmental activism, as well as
     other interests and hobbies what your NGO is doing, when it was
     established, what achievements it has made up-to-date, and what
     the specific goals of your NGO are how long you have been working
     with your NGO, what your function is in the organization, whether
     you are an employee or volunteer, and what kind of projects
     you've been involved in how you are planning to implement your
     internship experiences in the future work of your NGO which
     period you are available for the internship 

Please include your curriculum vitae (CV), in English, containing: 
     family name and first name(s) 
     full postal address 
     telephone number (where messages may be left) 
     fax number and e-mail address (if available) 
     nationality 
     passport number 
     date and place of birth 
     education and field of specialization 
     knowledge of foreign languages (indicate good, fair or poor) work
     experience and other relevant experience computer skills name,
     address, telephone, and fax of your NGO 

to:      Melita Rogelj 
     East-East NGO Exchange Program 
     Regional Environmental Center for Central and Eastern Europe
     Miklos ter 1, 1035 Budapest, Hungary Tel: (36 1) 250 3401, Fax:
     (36 1) 250 3403, E-mail:  
Deadline for receiving applications to the REC Head Office is
September 25, 1996.

(a kiiras meg folytatodik, de nem akarom az egesz 
Kornyesz-olvasotabort lefarasztani, ezert akit erdekel, az mar 
irjon melitanak -- aki amugy egy roppant kedves makedon 
lany (termeszetesen o is CEU hallgato volt.....:-))
+ - HYPO a szennyviztisztitoban (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> =======================================================
> Felado : Meszaros Laszlo
> E-mail :  [Sweden]
> Temakor: HYPO ( 6 sor )
> Idopont: Mon Sep 16 11:11:34 EDT 1996 KORNYESZ #263
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> Nem az osztrak bankra gondolok, hanem arra a budos lere, amivel neha mosnak,
> feheritenek, fertotlenitenek. Mivel nekunk hazi szennyviztarolonk van, igyex-
> xem tartozkodni a HYPO hasznalatatol, de azert erdekel: milyen hatasa van
egy
> normalis, biologiai szennyviztisztito mukodesere az, hogy egyes haziasszonyok
> hetente egy liter hypot ontenek a kulonfele lefolyokba? Gyilkos? Vagy ekkora
> mennyiseg boven elhasznalodik a csatornaban a szervesanyagok lebontasara?/lms
> 

Ha arra gondolunk, hogy a vezetekes ivoviz megengedett aktiv klortartalma 1-
3 mg/l kozott van es sajat mereseim szerint meg is van benne mindig a 0,2-0,
5 mg/l klor, akkor a HYPO lefolyoba valo ontogetese a szennyviztisztito 
bakterimuflorajara nezve gyilkos katasztrofa!
Nem tudom mennyi a HYPO klortaralma, de biztosan az ivoviz klortartalmanak 
tobb  tiz- vagy szazezerszerese. Es a kis klor az ivovizben tokeletesen 
fertotlenit!
Mester Zsolt
> =======================================================

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