Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
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Megrendelés Lemondás

Ha jossz, de meg nem jelentkeztel, akkor kerlek kuldj egy levelet a
 cimre. A Subject-be csak egy szamot irj: hanyan.
Erre azert van szukseg, hogy a resztvevok szamat elore minel
jobban meg tudjuk becsulni. Termeszetesen azok a HIXesek is
bejohetnek, akik nem jelentkeznek elore, HA befernek!

A buli elorelathatolag dec. 29-en lesz a Budapesti Eotvos Jozsef
Gimnazium pinceklubjaban. Veglegesites 2-3 napon belul varhato.

Jozsi. /HIX/
1 Re: Looking for Hungarian Gou... (mind)  48 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: From Ko3ba1nya to Bosnia (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
7 RedePsi: A Latin-American network for the 'Psy' area (mind)  151 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Statistics and life expectancy (mind)  48 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Life expectancy in USA (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Horn and NATO again (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
11 Horn and NATO (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Looking for Hungarian Gou... (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: a rose is a rose is a rose is a rose (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
14 It is the national debt, stupid! (mind)  48 sor     (cikkei)
15 travelling to hugary (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Looking for Hungarian Gou... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Sat, 10 Dec 1994 00:58:46 GMT Victor F. Marx said:
>We are thinking of going back to MAY-October beef finishing season, buying
>a 500 lbs. steer in May (or early June), and slaughther it when it reaches
>about 750 lbs in the fall.
--You might want to consider raising the beef to around 1000 pounds
before slaughter.  Also, you might look into raising Herefords.  Angus
tastes better, but tends to have more fat.  We used to raise Angus,
and they dressed out about 67% meat.  I think that Hereford is a bit
higher (meat).  We also used to raise our own hogs and chickens as well.
On two acres.  We kept every grass clipping and everything off the
vegetable garden.  Even picked up garbage from a local cafe.  Can't
feed raw garbage any more, but it wasn't illegal in those days.  Seems
to me that we used to get the calves at about 200 pounds, but I can't
remember how much grain we used to finish them.  Wasn't much, though.
Grew up eating home-made lard, bacon, ham.  We even made our own
laundry soap.  And head cheese.  Traded eggs to Mrs. Smith across
the road for milk and cream.  We bought only flour, salt, pepper and
citrus fruit.  Raided apples, pears, cherries, gooseberries and

Oh, I almost forgot.  Dad used to buy two calves each spring.  We
raised both the about 1000 pounds, and sold one.  The price we got
paid for the cost of raising both.  We raised three pigs, sold a
pig and a half and kept a pig and a half.  Essentially, except for
our labor, we had free meat all the time I was growing up.  Your posting
took me back.  Sorry for the length of my response, but nostalgia
took over.  Wonder if we could find a little place in the country...?

>Well, farm chores provide me with some excercise, which is more effective
>combating high cholesterol than diet alone.
Exercise is the key thing, I think.  I come from a long line of dirt
farmers, and most of them lived a long time while eating lard, pork,
and butter.  They all worked like hell, which I think made the
difference.  For what it's worth, I have tried to keep active.  I
raise my own vegetables, do my own yard work, and most home repairs.
I weigh less than I did when I graduated from high school in 1949
and my cholesterol is around 200, which isn't too bad for age 63.
And let us look into canonizing Dr. Arthur Klatzky of the UCLA
medical school whose pioneering work suggested that a couple of belts
a day was better than either heavy drinking or no drinking.


+ - Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> On Fri, 9 Dec 1994 10:33:25 +0000 Eva Durant said:
> >If this is a new definition as to who is Hungarian, I am
> >definitely not! 
> >
> >>
> >> Charles writes:
> >>
> >> > "Hungarians always pay their debts...."
> >>
It is strange to read that from somebody who faithfully pays her debt to
a regime that is passe.

+ - Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Charles writes in response to Istvan Nagy
> --Not necessary nor desireable!  But do check out the literature on
> what is called critical multiculturalism.  The radical idea of social
> justice is predicated on a restructuring of the American economy "in
> ways that would bring it into greater harmony with forms of
> democratic socialism."  Giroux & McLaren, 1989.  Or Alfie Kohn's
> "Punished by Rewards" which argues that rewards (A's or other
> incentives)  represent external motivation and are immoral because
> they create or exacerbate power differentials.  I hardly think
> these folks wicked, but I do believe them to be mistaken.

Or just peruse Eva Durant's postings. I don't think she is wicked

Regards, Jeliko
+ - Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Charles writes:
>.  The important thing about the
> American Left is that they teach teachers.

Well, I would not even call it teaching, would you settle for
indoctrinating as a substitute.

+ - Re: It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

George Lazar writes quoting some Hungarian circles:
> They suggest that
> if '"benevolent" foreign governments would want to "bail out" Hungary
> for political reasons, nothing is simpler for their central financial
> institutions than simply "buy up" the debt scattered to a huge array of
> small private lenders.'

> Don't hold your breath...

Let me see, the only way I can get my money back from my bank, which loaned
money to Hungary, if as a taxpayer, I give my government tax funds to
pay off my bank.

Don't hold your breath for that either.

+ - Re: From Ko3ba1nya to Bosnia (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

JELIKO ) wrote:
: Eva Durant writes:
: > Healthy food is EXPENSIVE! Such as fresh fruit + veg, lean meat!!
: > Needs time to be bought and prepared! Must be something to do
: > with it, surely! 

: Hmmm. Could be grown also. Now let me see that involves work......
: Jeliko.

i can just see the residents of an apartment block in manhatten with
cows grazing on the roof-top and growing corn on their north-facing

of course the residents on andrassy ut would have pigs on their roofs
and garlic and paprika in their window-sills. still they wouldn't
have to add lead to the paprika.

+ - RedePsi: A Latin-American network for the 'Psy' area (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


                A Latin-American network for the 'psy' area

The RedePsi consists of electronic forums for dissemination and discussion
of topics which are relevant to all professionals in the "psy" area
(psychologists, psychoanalists, psychiatrists, among others). The idea behind
RedePsi is to try and bring together Latin-American professionals of the "psy"
area, integrating them to the international community.

Although the main language for communication is Spanish or Portuguese, we will
certainly end up using English in order to integrate Spanish-Portuguese-
speaking participants to the international community. So the communication is
expected to be either in Spanish, Portuguese or English.

Besides allowing for the quick exchange of information, it will provide a space
for interdisciplinary collaboration in conducting research, as well as in
theoretical development and professional practice. The RedePsi will comprise a
general forum for dissemination of information, and several forums for thematic
discussion, listed below.

Forums in RedePsi
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The goal is to publicize topics relevant to network members, such as
conferences, conventions, congresses, publications, etc. It will also be
utilized in the general coordination of RedePsi. All participants in the
RedePsi are encouraged to subscribe to this forum. Coordinator: Cesar
Piccinini, Ph.D. >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe INFOPSI
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 This forum aims to discuss development in the context of social interactions,
especially the development of autonomy in adolescence, in the context of family
interactions, the relationship between attachment and autonomy, and the
implications of socio-cultural context. Coord: Rita Sobreira Lopes, Ph.D.

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe ADOLESCENCIA-FAMILIA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is intended to discuss research results and ongoing problems related to
human perception, cognitive functioning, representation and construction of
knowledge, with special attention to Information technology and Communication.
Coord.: Dr. Lea da Cruz Fagundes >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe COGNICAO
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum is open to all interested in Community Psychology. Special emphasis
is given to applications appropriate to developing countries and to high risk
groups, such as street children, drug addicts, pregnant adolescents, and
others. Coord.: Claudio Hutz, Ph.D. >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe COMUNITARIA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

One discusses the application of phenomenological theory and methodology for
the investigation of topics related to psychological development: adolescence,
adulthood, aging, personality, socialization, among others. Coord.: William B.
Gomes, Ph.D. >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe FENOMENOLOGIA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum discusses child-child interaction , especially in play activities,
with normal and atypical children. There is interest in discussiong the
development of various methodologies appropriate to the field. Coord.: Tania M.
Sperb, Ph.D. >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe INTERACAO-SOCIAL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum discusses the father/mother-child interaction and its implications
for socio-emotional development. Discussions concernig early interaction,
attachment, and cognition are welcome, as well as parental socialization
strategies in diffeent socio-cultural contexts. Coord.: Cesar A. Piccinini,
Ph.D. >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe PAIS-CRIANCA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It proposes discussion of basic texts and determinants of the
psychopathological field and corpus. It transmits reviews of articles
presentetd in conventions and journals, of books or courses about recent or
ongoing psychopathology research. Polemics are discouraged, and "comparative
psychopathology" is encouraged. Coord.: Jose L. Caon, Ph.D.

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe PSICOPATOLOGIA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It aims to discuss issues related to evaluation and intervention in
psychosomatic disorders. Although other approaches are not discarded, the basis
has been that of Paris Psychosomatic School. Coord.: Maria Lucia Tiellet Nunes,
Ph.D. >

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe PSICOSSOMATICA
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum has as its goal the discussion of theoretical and methodological
issues in the study of sociomoral development. Specific topics are included,
such as cultural aspects of sociomoral development, interventions, etc. Coord.:
Angela M. Biaggio, PhD >/Clary M. Sapiro, PhD

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe SOCIO-MORAL
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

This forum discusses issues that comprise the examination of work and its
articulations with subjectivity. Contributions are welcome that deal with the
examination of modes of subjectivity and of constitution of the subject in the
dynamics of social relations that prioritize the significance of work as a
socio-historical category in this process. Coord. Dr. Maria da Graca Jacques.

In order to subscribe, send the message: subscribe TRABALHO-SUJEITO
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Informations: , or to Professor Cesar A. Piccinini/
UFRGS/CPG PSICOLOGIA/Rua Ramiro Barcelos 2600 - Porto Alegre, RS - Brazil -
Telfax +55.51.330-6768.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+ - Re: Statistics and life expectancy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

: I found a few statistics which may interest readers of the list concerning
: eating habits, life expectancy, death rate, causes of death, and so on and so
: forth. I am afraid my source is a bit dated: it is Gyo2rgy Balo1 and Iva1n
: Lipovecz, eds., *Te1nyek--Ko2nyvek: Magyar e1s nemzetko2zi almanach,*
: Budapest, 1987. However, it shows trends between 1950 and 1986. Let's start
: with meat (chicken and fish included) consumption in kilograms. While in 1950
: per person consumption was 34.9 kg. per year, in 1970 it was 60.4; in 1980 it
: was 73.8; and in 1986 it was 80.3. Number of eggs: in 1950 only 85; in 1986
: 318. Lard in 1950: 14.4 kg; in 1986: 22.3 kg. Cooking oil: 1.8 kg in 1950 and
: 5.6 in 1986. Sugar in 1950: 16.3 kg; in 1986 35.4 kg. Vegetables: in 1960
: 84.1 kg; in 1986 75.0 kg (so actually consumption of vegetables declined with
: the increase of meat consumption). Hard liquor in 1950 1.5 liters; in 1986
: 10.5 liters; wine in 1950: 33 liters; in 1986: 23.3 liters (that is, wine
: drinking declined). Beer consumption, on the other hand, soared: 1950: 8.3
: liters; in 1986: 99.4 liters! Consumption of tobacco: in 1950 1.1 kg; in
: 1980: 2.4 kg and in 1986: 2.2 kg. I assume a great deal of this growth comes
: from women who began smoking in the 1950s. And finally alcohol consumption
: almost doubled between 1960 and 1983. Not surprisingly the number of cases of
: death from cirrhosis of the liver also increased rather dramatically.
: Numbers/100,000 inhabitants in 1960: 8.9; and in 1982: 32.2. Unfortunately, I
: don't have separate statistics for lung cancer but deaths from cancer in
: general have increased dramatically since 1950: 142 per 100,000 inhabitans to
: 267.4 in 1985. When it comes to deaths caused by heart diseases in 1950 there
: were 147 deaths per 100,000 while in 1972 there were 375.3 and in 1985 there
: were 323.4.

: Eva Balogh

there is a problem with such comparisons, for in 1950, the situation in
as in most of europe could hardly be called "normal", the effects of
world war ii were still being felt, there having been shortages of all manner
of things. these could very easily cause a shift in the causes of death.
world war ii took many lives, but these did not seem to be randomly
distributed across the entire demographic profile. this does not affect the
accuracy of the data, but does impinge upon their significance.

and before any conclusions can be reliably drawn, a great deal needs to
be known about all sorts of factors which impinge.

that is not to play down the importance of such data, but a caveat about
jumping all too rapidly to unwarranted conclusions.

by the way, i still have not seen or received the life-expectancy data
on hungary and other european countries. do you have them?

+ - Re: Life expectancy in USA (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thomas Breed writes:
> with American history, the unmarried men in the Donner's party died like
> flies while the married by and large survived.

Maybe they taste different also.
+ - Re: Horn and NATO again (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Balogh writes:
> Horn and NATO will be the death of me! Every time I open a newspaper or
> through the electronic news something different comes up about Horn and
Gee, I did not realize that the Hungarian PM is so Americanized in his
actions. Wonder why Clinton did not stay longer in Budapest to exchange
foreign policy consistency stories.
+ - Horn and NATO (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Another item on Horn and NATO. Matyas Eorsi (SZDSZ), head of the foreign
affairs committee of parliament, announced that Hungary is a sovereign and
independent country and as such it doesn't need the approval of a third party
when it concludes an agreement. Eorsi expressed his disappointment that the
prime minister expresses opinions which can be misinterpreted. However, he is
satisfied with the explanation of the Foreign Ministry according to which
Horn was simply talking about "consultation with Russia" concerning Hungary's
membership in NATO.

It seems to me that Horn is again has problem with the Hungarian
language--public speaking is not his forte and he doesn't seem to think
before he talks. The result is political trouble.

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Looking for Hungarian Gou... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


> Exercise is the key thing, I think.  I come from a long line of dirt
> farmers, and most of them lived a long time while eating lard, pork,
> and butter.  They all worked like hell, which I think made the
> difference.  For what it's worth, I have tried to keep active.  I

Have you seen that recent CBS 60 Minutes piece about a small Italian
village where heart desease is virtually unknown, yet their diet is
cholesterol rich?  They found a mutant gene the cause for this.
Maybe you, too, are a lucky guy, coming from a family with such mutant
gene, eh?

+ - Re: a rose is a rose is a rose is a rose (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Subject: Re: a rose is a rose is a rose is a rose
From: BREEDT14
Date: Fri, 9 Dec 1994 13:13:18 -0600
In article > ,

>It's unrealistic and ridiculuos because Hungary's history and
culture have
>very little in common with either Russia or Serbia.

of course it is nonsense to claim that hungary's history has very
in common with either russia or serbia. that is like claiming catalan
history has little in common with french and spanish history
or that irish, welsh, scottish history have little in common with
english history.

>these ignormasus opinions

when referring to people, the noun is "ignoramus" and the adjective
is "ignorant".

+ - It is the national debt, stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Zoli, one of us is gravely out of touch of reality.

My understanding is that more than four billion dollars are siphoned
away YEARLY from Hungary as straight debt servicing. Another
untold but huge amount is taken out as "profit". Further, Hungary can
only meet this deadly hemorrhage of funds by selling off (at dirt
prices) Hungarian agriculture, Hungarian industry, Hungarian science,
and by impoverishing Hungarian society beyond belief. If you don't
realize for instance that Hungarian science is sold down the river
consider the fifteen thousand Hungarian scientists who went abroad
in the last decade. Or think for a moment about the 71% decrease of
R&D in Hungary in the same time-period.  And if you believe these
scientists fetch premium prices ask them and learn what
horrendously bad deals they are forced to make since they have no
choice to stay at thome.

On the other hand, you call this "international assistance" that leads
us to "achieve growth", and "foreign help" by which Hungary will
make it to EU and NATO.

What are you talking about?  How can you call the West's looting
Hungary, by many billions of dollars per year, as "Foreign Help?"
Can you tell me with a straight face how much "Foreign Help"
Hungary received since she is "free", and how super-eager EU and
NATO have been to have Hungary become "integral part" of the

The picture I see is that Hungary is actually driven farther and
farther apart from the "West" -- after her reasonably democratic
government communist restoration is as complete as can be and the
impoverished Hungarian society is growing incompatible with West
Europe, day after day.

Oh yes, maybe I know how can you call these tragedies "international
assistance"!  I recall that it was also "international assistance" (of
sixteen tank divisions) that trampled Hungarian freedom fighters
into death in 1956.  It was also "foreign help" by the comrades by
which Hungary became "integral part" of the so-called "Peace-Camp".

With the absurd vocabulary of internationalists, in which military
aggressors were called "friends" providing "international assistance",
you can perhaps also brand the present looting of Hungary
"international assistance" and billions of dollars taken AWAY as
"foreign help".

Your internationalist vocabulary, however, is straight out from
Orwell's 1984.  I for one suspect that following "your book" is a
receipt for tragedy of historical proportions.
+ - travelling to hugary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

i have just found this list and was wondering if anyone could
send me information on places to stay and student hangouts as i
will be travelling to hungary sometime in march or april. also
if anyone else is going to be there around the same time and
would like to meet up let me know times and dates if available.