Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
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1 New Multilingual Browser from Accent Software (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: U.S. Exchange Student (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
3 [Jeliko: Re: Romani Slavery] (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
4 Western Evangelicals in Hungary (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
5 A Response to Janos Zsargo (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
6 What does the name 'Bela' mean? (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: What does the name 'Bela' mean? (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Something to Muse About (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
9 Divorced British male seeks single/divorced female, (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
10 Funar bacsi does it again!!! (mind)  83 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: What does the name 'Bela' mean? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
12 publicity/magyarok/ciganyok (mind)  179 sor     (cikkei)

+ - New Multilingual Browser from Accent Software (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Accent Multilingual Mosaic

            Accent Software International is pleased to announce the
            beta version of Accent Multilingual Mosaic - a Web browser
            which allows you to view multilingual content in any of
            more than 30 languages, wherever you are.

            With Accent Multilingual Mosaic you can surf, for example,
            Hungarian Web sites from Budapest or anywhere in the world

            Japanese sites from your office in California or Russian
            sites from your home in Paris, using any language version
            of Windows 3.1 or 95.  Accent Multilingual Mosaic features
            a user interface in the language of your choice (from a
            selection of 20 languages) making Web browsing even
            easier.  A beta version of Accent Multilingual Mosaic is
            available for download from http://www.accentsoft.com.

            Accent Multilingual Mosaic is part of the "Internet with
            an Accent" suite which also includes Accent Multilingual
            Publisher for WYSIWYG multilingual publishing, and Accent
            MailPad for multilingual electronic mail.  For more
            information send e-mail to .
+ - Re: U.S. Exchange Student (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

  I'm not sure if I can help you with your project, but I have formed my
own impressions of evangelicals in Hungary after living there a year.  If
you would like t hear my experiences, please let me know.
--Shannon Morris
+ - [Jeliko: Re: Romani Slavery] (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Jeliko writes:

>There maybe a problem with the referenced Kogalniceanu date, if I recall
>correctly he published his autobiography in 1916, thus he would have been
>rather young in 1837, but I do not know his birthdate.


According to the Library of Congress M. Kogalniceanu was born in 1817
and died in 1891. Unless there is another Kogalniceanu, the quoted
date of the book appears to be plausible.

+ - Western Evangelicals in Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I the prospective U.S. exchange student who is interested in studying the
influx of Christian evangelicals from the States and Canada into
Hungary.  Many of them currently teach English as a second language and
provide social services that the government once provided.  I have also
heard that they conduct theatrical revivals in the city streets, at train
stations, and other public places.  I would be interested in hearing your
impressions and opinions on this trend, as well as any other information
you may have as to other mediums or venues through which evangelicals are
attempting to gain legitimacy and authority in Hungary.

Kysa Koerner Vincze
+ - A Response to Janos Zsargo (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Janos Zsargo wrote:

>Well, considering Joe's opinions about economy, society, religion, the
>'Jo napot, elvtarsak!' (Good day, comerades! or Zdrastvujte tovarisi!)
> wish would be quite appropriate to him.

I am disappointed at Janos Zsargo's inability, or perhaps unwillingness, to
have an intelligent debate.  Instead of challenging my opinions about the
economy, society, or religion he prefers to label me.  Perhaps labeling is
his forte.

And why does Mr. Zsargo say that 'elvtars' would be an appropriate way of
calling me?  It's easy.  On the question of the economy, I stated that a
social safety net is necessary for all people.  That would mean that the old
and the sick and the poor are not left to starve or die on the streets of
Hungary.  On the question of society, I stated that I was not pleased with
the way gypsies or jews were treated in Hungary.  On the question of
religion, I stated that I wished people would keep their faiths to
themselves.  Because of these views Mr. Zsargo calls me 'elvtars'.  Why the
hell dosen't he just call me a 'Kadar youth'?  He's the expert on labeling
people, is he not?

And where does Mr. Zsargo stand on the economy, society, and religion?  On
the question of the economy he has been silent.  Can I conclude that he's
happy with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer?  Or does he
not see it that way?  On the question of society, he tried to explain why
some Hungarians may not like the gypsies.  So far he has offered no possible
solutions to that problem.  Perhaps he dosen't see a problem or at least not
one that can be solved.  On the question of religion, he's just a
chauvinist.  If it's good enough for him, it should be good enough for
everyone else.  No questions or criticisms please!

For Mr. Zsargo, a criticism of Hungarian society implies that the critic is
an 'elvtars', or 'commie', if you prefer.  For me, it's interesting (sort
of) to see what the 'new' Hungarian man looks like.  I am not impressed!!

Joe Szalai
+ - What does the name 'Bela' mean? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Can anyone tell me the historical meaning of the name 'Bela'?
We have named our son Bela, but, (not being Hungarian) we don't
know the linguistic history of the name and where it came from.

+ - Re: What does the name 'Bela' mean? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tom Oehser inquired:
> Can anyone tell me the historical meaning of the name 'Bela'?
> We have named our son Bela, but, (not being Hungarian) we don't
> know the linguistic history of the name and where it came from.
> -Tom

        In Hungary, the name Be'la is the name of a hungarian king(s).
        It was common in the old times to use names for royalty which
        tied in closely to the ancient traditions and beliefs; the names
        had little twists which made the rulers appear akin to a deity.
        This interpretation may draw criticism from fellow hungarians,
        but it was once read that the name Be'la is coming from the
        name Ba'l, the Syrian fire god.  There is no debate that the
        ancient hungarians worshipped the Sun, natural deities, etc.
        However, the Syrian connection is still being argued.

+ - Re: Something to Muse About (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Szalai > wrote:
> In response to my and W. Batkay's post Peter Kaslik wrote:
> >It is not amusing!
> >I happen to believe that Jesus is God. Does that
> >make me an antisemite?
> >Jesus jokes at Christmas on a Hungarian newsgroup?
> >This is still a public forum. Please respect our creed and customs.
> >I wish I can wish you a merry something
> >With respect
> >Peter Kaslik
> Where were you the last two weeks Peter?  This Hungarian newsgroup had
> plenty of writers wishing everyone a happy, merry, something or other.
> Where was the writers respect for the creed and customs of those who are not
> religious?  You can't have it both ways.  On the one hand, you want to
> inject a bit of your faith onto this newsgroup by wishing 'merry something'
> to everyone, and then, on the other hand, you get annoyed when someone
> challenges your faith.  Religious chauvinism will, and should, be met
> head-on by non-religious chauvinism.  The alternative, of course, is for the
> religious to keep their faith to themselves.  That should ensure that the
> non-religious stick to topics more relevant to the Hungarian newsgroup.

> If you still have the urge to wish something to ALL the readers and writers
> on this group may I suggest something like, 'good day', or 'have a good
> weekend', or something like that.
> Good day.
> Joe Szalai
> P.S.  Your 'with respect' is also ok.
I wasn't referring to your initial banality, which is not worthy
of an answer. I felt offended by the Jesus joke of the other
person who jumped in and topped it off by
the untimely and distasteful posting.
Telling Jesus jokes at Christmas on a Hungarian news group is
not a challenge, but an insult to me as a  Christian and as a

Peter Kaslik

+ - Divorced British male seeks single/divorced female, (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Divorced British male (no children) 34 yr. /178 cm / 77 kg,  educated
professional seeks educated,  sensual,
well-proportioned female,  21-29 yr.,  165-175 cm,  for a loving relationship
leading to marriage.
Serious enquires only,  please.
Please reply in English by e-mail (do not post replies in the newsgroup) to:

+ - Funar bacsi does it again!!! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


The lengths that some people will go:

Toward the historic reconciliation, Funar style:

Reports from Cluj (Kolozsvar) have it that the Romanian mayor of the
city, Gheorghe Funar, asked the city council to change street names
which bear "the names of Hungarians, Jews or Communists."

Thus, the street named for the Hungarian writer Ady Endre would be
renamed for Leonard Mociulschiro, Arany Janos Street would
henceforth be called Simion Barnutiu etc.

Obviously, the road to Europe for Romania will be much longer than


You see folks, this is exactly what I've been talking about. You can't "deal"
or "bargain" with people of this mentality. This is also something that can't
wait "until both get into the EU". This has to be addressed NOW!! Some will say
that changing a street name is nothing to start an uproar about, but today it's
a street name here and there, remove bi-lingual signs here and there (except
those advertising western goods), ban plays in Hungarian, fine people, and etc.
Untouched, this problem will become worse. I don't understand why some of you
folks (even those of Hungarian ancestry) would consider bargaining with people
like this. It would be a complete sell-out if we even bow down to scum like
this. Look, the Romanian government had 5 years to rectify the "ethnic
problem". Has it gotten any better for Hungarians, Germans, Jews, and Roma???
The answer is a big fat NO!! What did these people get?? Nagy lofasz, basically


The National Salvation Front holds the following to be neccessary :

1.) that the new constitution of the country acknowledge and guarantee the
individual and collective rights and freedoms of national minorities;

2.) that a Law on National Minorities which puts into concrete form the
principles of the constitution be formulated and adopted. The parliament should
adopt this law within six months of adoption of the new constitution;

3.) the neccessary institutional framwork for the minorities to be able to
practice their basic rights, including the free use of the native language and
the preservation of ethnic identity, must be guaranteed. For this purpose, a
Ministry of Nationalities will be created.

4.) We wish to guarantee the right of national minorities to resolve the
problems of their own political, social and intellectual life through
individuals appointed or elected from within their ranks to their own
democratic organizations and the organs of state, public administration and
civil society.

So, tell me where are all these "EU friendly " actions?? Has any been
implemented, yet?? The answer is, obviously, NO!! Rather than these efforts
being made, the new constitution restricts native language education more
explicitly then it did prior to 1990. In fact, Romania's draft constitution
banned outright all political parties "founded exclusively on ethnic, religious
or language criteria". In a February 1992 Parlaimentary speech, Senator Romulus
Vulpescu went so far as to call for the creation of "concentration camps for
Rumania's Hungarian citizens."

So, the answer is not to "get over it", but actually is to WAKE UP to reality.
The Slovak, Vajdasagi, & Romanian governments aren't going to budge on this
unless we (those who believe in human rights for all) do something about it.
These governments has to recognize that until it abides by international law
and distance itself from xenophobic and anti-Hungarian views, and respect the
Hungarian minorities constitutionally guaranteed right to self expression, it
certainly can not expect to become a full member of the EU.

Hey, has anyone contacted Amnesty International?? Do they have an e-mail
address. What do they have to say about Romania, Slovakia, and so forth??

This is my last rant this year. BUEK mindenkinek!!!!!
Czifra Jancsi
john_czifra @ shi.com
+ - Re: What does the name 'Bela' mean? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tom Oehser ) wrote:
: Can anyone tell me the historical meaning of the name 'Bela'?
: We have named our son Bela, but, (not being Hungarian) we don't
: know the linguistic history of the name and where it came from.

Shouldn't you have asked this before you went ahead and named your son?
What if it means "He who is flatulent in the corn field," or something?

+ - publicity/magyarok/ciganyok (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Well, I was rather sure that all "debate" will cease about the
"fact" that Hungarians dislike Gipsies more than any minority,
at the very moment when someone digs up some actual data
pertaining to the real facts.

For readers who might wish to remember more than just an empty
debate, here are some numbers. The following material was
(re)published in "NEMZET" on Dec. 26. It contains some hard
data that Gipsies are *not* the least liked minority (54% of
population answered that they did not like Gipsies, while 84%
answered that they did not like Jews). The article also puts
one particular issue (media-distortion) into the limelight,
exactly what kind of irritation is disliked. In a more general
context, the NEMZET article raises voice against a new trend
towards a hegemony in media (not unfamiliar even in this list,
considering unilateral censorhip).

Andras Szucs

--Nemzet, Dec. 26, 1995--

(1) Mind a "HUNGARY" elnevezesu (angol nyelvu) Internet-vitaujsag, mind a
nyelveben magyar "HIX" ratert legujabban a magyarorszagi liberalfasiszta sajto
modszerere, hogy vitakban a "kirekesztes modszerevel gyozhessen". A "HUNGARY"
vitaujsag mar hetek ota olyan ciganyellenesseggel vadolja a magyarokat,
mely a lista legtobb iroja szerint tultesz barmely mas kisebbseg irant
meglevo ellenszenven. Mivel a "vita" sem erre vonatkozo konkret
szamadatokat nem kozol, sem esetleges ellenszenv konkret okait nem
targyalja, erdekes lehet a Magyar Nemzet december 14-i erre vonatkozo
felmereset ismerteto alabbi hazai cikket tanulmanyozni:

"Uj Magyarorszag", December 22

Lovas Istvan: A MERO-BOTRANY

        Kevesse valoszinu, hogy Magyarorszagon kivul letezik meg egy
olyan orszag, amelynek kozszolgalati adoja egy bizonyos kulfoldi
orszagrol minden fo adasaban ("kronikajaban") hirt es tudositast
        Aki a Magyar Radio kronikait hallgatja, gyakorlatilag egyetlen
egyszer nem teheti anelkul, hogy Mero Miklos, a radio tel-avivi
tudositoja, ne jelentkezzen.  Fuggetlenul attol, hogy fontos, kevesbe
fontos, vagy a helyi hatarokon kivul trivialisabb esemenyrol szamol
        Ennek ellenorzese nagyon egyszeru annak, aki ellenorizni
akarja. Meg nyelvtudas sem kell hozza.  Meg kell hallgatni a radion
foghato kulfoldi adokat.  Peldaul a kornyezo orszagoket, amelyekhez a
Kozel-Kelet eppen olyan tavol van, mint Magyarorszag, es az ottani
esemenyek pontosan olyan hatassal vannak az ott elokre, mint az itteni
lakossagra. Marpedig, aki meghallgatja a becsi, zagrabi, pozsonyi,
belgradi es a tobbi, foghato adot, tapasztalja, hogy a Magyar Radio
izraeli tudositasai allandosagaval szemben ott lenyegesen ritkabban
szerepelnek tel-avivi ill. jeruzsalemi hirek, nem is szolva a
        Hogy a Magyar Radio tudositaspolitikajanak milyen hatasa van a
hallgatokra Zalaegerszegtol Nyirbatorig, azt a hallgatoktol kellene
        Annyit azonban tudunk a Magyar Nemzet december 14-i szamaban
kozolt felmeresbol - amelyet sokatmondo csend kovetett -, hogy
Magyarorszagon az antiszemita erzesek 1992-hez kepest - amikor egy
akkori nemzetkozi felmeres a tersegben itt talalt a legkisebb merteku
antiszemitizmust -, nagyon felerosodtek. A megkerdezettek 84 szazaleka
(!) ugy valaszolt, hogy nem kedveli a zsidokat. (A ciganyokat 54
szazalek nem kedvelte.)
        Nem hiszem, hogy messze jarnank az igazsagtol, amikor
feltetelezzuk, hogyn nem csak a virulens, latens es potencialis
antiszemitak teszik fel a kerdest: vajon miert kell a magyar
hallgatoknak naponta negyszer kimerito tajekoztatast kapniuk egy
negymillios orszagbol akkor, amikor az egy milliardnal is tobb lakost
szamlalo Kinabol alig, de Brusszelbol, az Europai Kozosseg es a NATO
kozpontjabol sem hallhatunk minden nap helyszini tudositast?
        A mindent az antiszemitizmus alapjan magyarazok nyilvan keszen
allnak a valasszal: a media "zsido kezen van". Ha ez a "dzsoker"
magyarazat igaz lenne, akkor a Magyar Televizio hirmusorai is naponta
tudositananak Izraelbol. Marpedig nem tudositanak. Holott az MTV-nek
kituno tudositoja van Ammanban. Chrudinak Alajosnak hivjak, ha valaki
elfelejtette volna. Tole evente altalaban 3 tudositast lathatunk. Mero
Miklos hangjat pedig igen ritkan veszik at a teve emberei.  Vagyis: ha
a media valoban "zsido kezen" lenne, akkor az MTV-ben is naponta
kapnank izraeli tudositast, fuggetlenul a tudositott anyag
fontossagatol.  De ez nem igy van. A kezenfekvo magyarazat tehat ismet
csak az lehet, hogy, mint a balkani modon korrupt kozszolgalati
mediatol mar megszoktuk, szemelyes "bulizassal" allunk szemben. Mero
Miklosnak nyilvanvaloan penz kell.  Ezert gyakran es reszletesen
tudosit, mert feltehetoleg percre fizetik.  Mindezert vegsosoron az MR
elnoke, Sziranyi Janos a felelos, aki, mint koztudott, gyenge ember. A
szo minden ertelmeben. Ami kar.
        De ennel nagyobb kar, hogy akik a bulizast engedik, az okozott
nagyon nagy kart nem kalkulaljak be szamitasaikba. Butak, nagyon
butak. Es, mint azt nem egyszer tapasztalhatjuk, onveszelyesek is.
Ugy tunik azonban, szamukra a penznel nincs fontosabb. Holott,
tetelezik fel roluk ellensegeik is, szamukra vannak transzcendentalis
ertekek, melyek meg a penznel is jobban erdekli oket.  Ellensegeik
ismet tevednek.  Viszont egyszerubb lesz a medicina megtalalasa.

(2) A "HIX" Internet-listak ujabban mar nem csak "szilenciumra
itelnenek" egesz csoportokat, de a listatulajdonos mar azt is bejelzi,
hogy milyen fajta temakrol engedelyezi a "moderalatlan" vitat, s
melyekrol nem. (Pl. a HIX-ben gyakorlatta valt cenzurarol nem). A
liberalfasizmus iranyaba degeneralodott, cenzurazatlan vitat betilto
HIX-ben nem lehozhato "tilos" temaknak a Nemzet azonban termeszetesen
helyt ad. A kiado es a szerkesztobizottsag elnoke (Toth Jozsef) a
HIX-ben nem fejtheti ki allaspontjat meg az "utolso szo jogan sem",
bar az olvasonak joga lehet hogy mindket oldal szavat hallhassa:

Toth Jozsef kozlemenye:

(A) A HIX-tulajdonos meg mindig nem beszel egy arva szoval sem arrol,
hogy haromszori cenzurazas elozte meg az elhamarkodott
hix-nix-et. Miert hallgatja el, hogy a Szucs Andras altal bekuldott
Szatmari anyagnak (amely eppen a sajtohegemoniarol szolt) koze volt a

(B) Az egesz "siliconvalley" domain hasznaloinak (es tulajdonosanak)
eltiltasa nyilvanvaloan unfair, de meg a kiado es szerkesztobizott-
sag elnokenek eltiltasa sem indokolhato az alabbi fenntartasok nelkul.

(a) A szerkeszto valoban felelos azert, hogy egyetlen alkalommal (dec. 18)
a hiranyagba valoban belekerult 3 olyan hazai lapokbol szarmazo anyag,
melyrol a Hirmondo is tudositott. Ezert azonban a HIX a Nemzet kiadojat a
fair play szabalyait figyelembe veve nem "buntetheti" mert:
        (i) Az atvett anyag eredendoen nem a Hirmondo-tol szarmazik,
hanem a Magyar Nemzet, Magyar Hirlap es hasonlo otthoni lapoktol.
Vajon a Hirmondo-nak van engedelye ezektol a lapoktol atvetelre?
        (ii) A Hirmondo anyagaban sehol sincs "copyright". Nem copy-
right-ozott internet-anyagok clippelese teljesen szeleskoru gyakorlat.
        (iii) Hollosira mint "birora" HIX dolgok tartozhatnak (mert o a HIX
tulajdonos), de a Hirmondo NEM hix.
        (iv) A Nemzet a Hirmondoban is lehozott harom anyagot egyaltalan nem
*sajat* anyagakent hozta le, hanem feltuntette hogy a kivonatok a
"Batthyany Alapitvany anyagabol ES MAS LAPOKBOL szarmaznak. Az
"elTULAJDONitas vadja tehat egyszeruen nem igaz.
        (v) Amennyiben Ferko Janos vagy egyebek nehezmenyeznek a Nemzet
olyan kozleseit, melyekrol a Hirmondo is beszamol, az lenne elfogadhato, ha
ok irnanak,akkor is eloszor pusztan figyelmeztetve. A Hirmondo-ban nem is
illetekes Hollosi minden figyelmeztetes nelkuli, sot a "buntetetettek"-
nek meg "utolso szo jogat" is megtagado "eltiltasa" unfair.

(b) A nemzet felelos kiadojan kivuli szemelyek "buntetese" nyilvanvaloan
tokeletesen unfair. A "siliconvalley" domain-nek valoban Pellionisz
a bejegyzett tulajdonosa, de o page lapjan (www.siliconvalley.com)
kulon feltunteti, hogy "public service"-kent csupan *helyet ad*
magyar anyagok kozlesere. Pellionisz "rendori" feladatot, az anyagok
tartalmanak vizsgalatat es azokert valo felelosseget nem vallalja, pl.
azert sem, mert  barmi "ellenorzesi" torekvese Alkotmanyellenesnek lenne
minositheto, hiszen cenzura az USA Constitution First Amendment-jenek
(Freedom of Expression) ellentmond. Egyebkent is, honnan kellene
tudni az Internet-domain tulajdonos Pellionisznak, hogy a domain egy
hasznalojanak van-e engedelye pl. a Hirmondotol, milyen engedelye van,
vagy egyaltalan szukseges-e engedely? Ha valaki a telefonon obszcen
dolgokkal zaklat barkit, akkor *soha* nem a telefontarsasag tulajdonosat
buntetik meg, hanem legfeljebb azt aki zaklatast kovetett el. Pellionisz
tokeletesen vetlen, eltiltasa unfair.

(c) Szucs Andras eltiltasa meg nyilvanvalobban teljesen indokolatlan
hacsak nem tenyleg arrol van szo, hogy Hollosi ot akarta megakadalyozni
a Szatmari anyag kozleseben. Mi koze van Szucs Andrasnak ahhoz, hogy
a Nemzet szerkeszto mit hozott le otthoni ujsagokbol a Hirmondo-hoz
hasonlo modon Pellionisz domain-jenek technikai segitsegevel? Semmi.
Raadasul ezt a megjegyzest Szucs Andras meg elo sem adhatja, mert "utolso
szo joga" nelkul ki van tiltva.

(d) A "siliconvalley" domain-nek tobb tucat "public" hasznaloja van,
akiknek semmi kozuk nincs, nem csak a Hirmondo-hoz hasonloan lehozott
harom rovidhirhez, de meg a Nemzet-hez sem. Igaz, hogy ok eddig
nem irtak bele semmit a HIX-be, de milyen alapon tiltja meg ezeknek
a HIX-tulajdonos, hogy a jovoben esetleg irhassanak?  Van ennek fair
play-hez barmi koze?

(e) A "Hirmondo" es a "Nemzet" esetleges surlodasanak elhamarkodott
tulreagalassal valo kezelese konnyen eppen a Hirmondonak arthat. A Nemzet-
ben legalabb otszor tobb, vagy ket nappal frissebb (aznapi!), es nem
liberalis beallitottsagu hiranyag van kulonbozo forrasokbol, mint a
Hirmondoban. Ha ez a "botrany" a HIX-ben le van fojtva, a Hirmondo
konnyen rafizethet, mert az olvasok tomegesen elveszthetik erdeklodesuket
a Hirmondo irant. Talan nem attol hogy *olvassak* a Hirmondot, de attol
nagyon valoszinuen elkedvetlenednek hogy a fenti unfair huzasokert meg
fizessenek is a penzt szedo Hirmondo-nak.