Subject: 
              Restricted freedom or "Transylvania's seven deadly sins"
        Date: 
              Sat, 2 Nov 1996 07:27:46 GMT
       From: 
              Mihai Caragiu >
Organization: 
              mathematics department WSU
 Newsgroups: 
              soc.culture.romanian


Anthony Malczanek wrote:

> Transylvania is the land where for the first time in
> the world, by an act, religious freedom was granted

The diet of Torda voted in 1568 religious freedom for exactly
four rites, i.e., the four churches of the three "favorite
nations": the Evangelical, the Lutheran, the Roman-Catholic
and the Unitarian Church. Wesselenyi counts like this: 3 "Received 
Nations" + 4 "Received Religions" = 7 Deadly Sins of Transylvania!
A significant part, if not the majority, of the inhabitants of 
Transylvania belonged to the "Non-Received" Orthodox Church, so 
it is hard to agree with the official hungarian point of view 
on this subject... The Romanians lived then in the...empty half
of the glass.

Regards,
Mihai Caragiu

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 15:40:08 -0800
From: arpad nemes >
To: 
Subject: UNICUM: Valasztasok Romaniaban

Kedves Mindenki!

KERLEK ERTESITSETEK AMERIKABAN TARTOZKODO ROMAN ALLAMPOLGARSAGGAL RENDELKEZO 
ERDELYI ISMEROSEITEKET, hogy:

Holnap, november 3-an valasztasok lesznek Romaniaban. A 68/1992-es torveny erte
lmeben 
minden Amerikaban tartozkodo roman allampolgar szavazhat a nagyobb varosokban 
felallitott szavazokorzetekben. Ezek a korzetek a nagykovetseg, konzulatusok, v
agy 
egyhazak gondozasaban a kovetkezo helysegekben talalhatok:

Washington, D.C. 202-232-4749, roman nagykovetseg
New York, NY 212-689-9120, roman konzulatus
Los Angeles, CA 310-444-0043, roman konzulatus
Los Angeles, CA 714-776-1972,  
Los Angeles, CA 213-225-8583 
San Francisco, CA 510-614-9282
Chicago, IL 312-728-2727
Detroit, MI 810-795-3325
Hallandale, FL 954-457-1466
Portland, OR 503-761-5067
Boston, MA 617-552-3805
Cleveland, OH 216-941-5550

A feljogosultak 9 es 17 ora kozott adhatjak le a szavazataikat. Szukseges igazo
lo 
iratok: utlevel (ha lejart az sem baj amennyiben az illeto roman allampolgar) v
agy 
szemelyazonossagi igazolvany  vagy szuletesi igazolvany, vagy hajtasi igazolvan
y.

Koszonom a segitsegeteket.

nemes arpad

In article >,
   Mordekhai > wrote:
>
>
>>> That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human semen
>>> into the Holy Spirit.
>>
>> I agree that there is a strong parallel between the Holy Spirit and
>> human semen in that human semen is involved in the creation of new
>> life, and when the Holy Spirit comes upon a human being, he or she is
>> filled with new life, but I don't understand what you are intending
>> to say whgen you say that "Jesus gave to the apostles the power to
>> change the human semen into the Holy Spirit.
>
>I am intending to say that Jesus gave to the apostles the power
>to manipulate the divine person of the Holy Spirit. They received
>the power to force the Holy Spirit to take on himself the image
>of their semen. Not the semen is holy, but the Holy Spirit
>which looks like a semen. It is like Eucharist: the difference
>between bread and wine and body and blood of Christ. Both look
>same, but in fact it is completly different. The sinful sexual
>acts like adultery or pederasty become with the Holy Spirit
>holy.
>
>>> Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a semen,
>>> it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy 
Spirit,
>>> you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).
>>
>> This seems to me to be saying that the passing on of the Holy
>> Spirit from one person to another is very like sexual intercourse
>> in that it is a gift of new life.  Am I correct?
>
>Exactly.
>
>>> What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.
>>
>> Are you saying that the physical act of sex has to be an actual
>> part of this blessing?  Or is the symbolic act - such as the laying
>> on of hands enought to transmit the Holy Spirit?
>
>The blessing is an ejaculation, i.e. when the Holy Spirit, which looks like
>a semen, goes out trought someone's penis, and someone is filled
>by the Holy Spirit.
>
>> I Corinthians suggests that the early churches had sexual orgies as
>> part of their worship.  Paul condemned this as being wrong.  My own
>> opinion is that the form of pagan worship that was carried out by
>> the gentile nations included sex-orgies - and Christianity held
>> this to be wrong.  I wouldn't have thought that the spiritual orgy
>> that you describe would have looked like a sex orgy - why do you
>> feel that this is the case?
>

What does this have to do with soc.culture.croatia ???

Ozi

>> That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human semen
>> into the Holy Spirit.
>
> I agree that there is a strong parallel between the Holy Spirit and
> human semen in that human semen is involved in the creation of new
> life, and when the Holy Spirit comes upon a human being, he or she is
> filled with new life, but I don't understand what you are intending
> to say whgen you say that "Jesus gave to the apostles the power to
> change the human semen into the Holy Spirit.

I am intending to say that Jesus gave to the apostles the power
to manipulate the divine person of the Holy Spirit. They received
the power to force the Holy Spirit to take on himself the image
of their semen. Not the semen is holy, but the Holy Spirit
which looks like a semen. It is like Eucharist: the difference
between bread and wine and body and blood of Christ. Both look
same, but in fact it is completly different. The sinful sexual
acts like adultery or pederasty become with the Holy Spirit
holy.

>> Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a semen,
>> it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy Spirit,
>> you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).
>
> This seems to me to be saying that the passing on of the Holy
> Spirit from one person to another is very like sexual intercourse
> in that it is a gift of new life.  Am I correct?

Exactly.

>> What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.
>
> Are you saying that the physical act of sex has to be an actual
> part of this blessing?  Or is the symbolic act - such as the laying
> on of hands enought to transmit the Holy Spirit?

The blessing is an ejaculation, i.e. when the Holy Spirit, which looks like
a semen, goes out trought someone's penis, and someone is filled
by the Holy Spirit.

> I Corinthians suggests that the early churches had sexual orgies as
> part of their worship.  Paul condemned this as being wrong.  My own
> opinion is that the form of pagan worship that was carried out by
> the gentile nations included sex-orgies - and Christianity held
> this to be wrong.  I wouldn't have thought that the spiritual orgy
> that you describe would have looked like a sex orgy - why do you
> feel that this is the case?

Well, the power over the Holy Spirit received Peter and apostles as whole.
These are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Mattew 16:3 (?), 18:18).
On this power is based the apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church.
Christians held the gentile sex-orgies to be wrong, because they
didn't believe that from the gentile proceed the Holy Spirit, and
they didn't belive that they have the power to force the Holy Spirit
to take on himself the image of their semen.

In case of Acts 2:1-4 is written about tongues which looked like tongues
of fire. From the context is also clear that by that tongues were
the apostles filled by the Holy Spirit. What is more natural to think
than that the tongues were the erected penises of the apostles, and that
the Holy Spirit, which looked like a semen proceeded through them.
They filled each other by the Holy Spirit.

To understand the crucial importance of the apostolic power help us
Platon in his famous work "Symposium" where he decribes the relations
between him and Socrates. Socrates was his teacher. Socrates met
Platon when he was 13 years old boy. The relations between them were
highly homoerotical. Socrates loved Platon, made with him love, and
taught him philosophy. He taucht him, because he loved him. I think
that this is exactly the thing that ensures the judeo-catholic continuation.
The knowledge of Torah goes hand-in-hand together with Eros. It is
the mystery of the relation father-son. In the Holy Trinity Christians
glorify the sacred homosexuality. The Father loves his Son, and he fill
him by the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit proceeds from both:
from the Father and from the Son. The Catholic Church tries to incorporate
the life of the Holy Trinity in its own life. That's why there is
the obligation of celibacy (i.e. to be not married and no other obligation),
and inadmission of women to an active priesthood (because from woman cannot
proceed the Holy Spirit in his most natural image, i.e. that of semen).

Mordekhai

===> God+Jacob <===
===> David*Jonathan <===
===> Love is the Holy Spirit <===
===> The Holy Spirit ensures the unity of the Holy Trinity <===
===> Is Jesus the son of Ephraim, the son of Jacob? (read P.P.S.) <===


The apostles received many powers from Jesus.
The well known are: to change the wine into the blood (soul) of Christ,
and to change the bread into the body of Christ.

But from Eucharist doesn't proceed the Holy Spirit, as it proceeds
from the Son.

That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human semen
into the Holy Spirit.

Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a semen,
it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy Spirit,
you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).

What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.

The beautiful power gave Jesus to the apostles. The power of love.

The apostles used this power first time when they received the Holy Spirit.
(Acts 2:1-4) It was a spiritual orgy which looked like a sexual orgy, but
instead of semen there was "speaking" the Holy Spirit which looked like
a semen.

This power is used also during the eucharistic prayer, because the priests
put their hands above the bread and the wine. It is the symbol of love
(=the Holy Spirit). The bread and wine are filled by the Holy Spirit,
and by that act the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ
full of the Holy Spirit. Something similar is happening during making
a new bishop. Love (the Holy Spirit) can take on himself many images
(i.e. it can look like many thinks). The image of semen is one of them.

Mordekhai

P.S.: The virginity of any man is broken only by a fucking with a semen,
but it remains unbroken by a fucking by the Holy Spirit. That's why
Mary is really virgin, because she was never fucked by a semen. She was
fucked by the Holy Spirit with the assistance of the angel Gabriel.

P.P.S.: There is possible to envelop a concept of spiritual genealogy
of Jesus, i.e. the genealogy of the Holy Spirit. Jacob was fucked
by the Holy Spirit (Genesis 32:24-29). He filled his son Josef
by the Holy Spirit, and Josef filled his son Ephraim by the Holy Spirit
(I Paralipomenon 5:1-2). It continued to the priest Eli which filled
Samuel the prophet by the Holy Spirit (I Samuel 3:6), Samuel filled
Shaul the first king of Israel, Shaul filled Jonathan his son,
Jonathan filled David (I Samuel 18:3, 20:16-17, 20:42, 23:18),
David filled Sholomo. It continued to John the Baptist which filled Jesus.

I will be interested to reconstruct the entire spiritual genealogy of Jesus.

This is, may be, the partial genealogy:
God->Jacob->Josef->Ephraim-> ... ->Eli->Samuel->Shaul->Jonathan->David->
Sholomo-> ... ->Elijah->JESUS

-Surensoy,E. > wrote:
>
>	Ottoman never declared or calim itself as a Turkish state or any
>	other political entity; its official language in foreign relations
>	was Armenian language. Its internal official language was mainly
>	a mixture of Arabic and Persian sprinkled with a few Turkish words
>	for which probobly they could not find any Arabic or Persian  
>	substitutes.

If this is so, why then is the current Turkish government placing such
emphasis on honoring such leaders of the Ottoman Empire as Suliman II.
(if my numbering is right), who died during the 16th century siege of
the Hungarian fort, Szigetvar.  They managed to erect a statue to his
memory at that place a few years ago, amidst considerable controversy.
As I understand it, the Turkish government consider its custodial duty
to preserve and maintain other memories of that Ottoman era as well.
It seems to me that in the treatment of Ottoman history, Turks want
to have the cake and eat it, too. 

Joe Pannon

bond wrote:
> 
> why don't you take your traumatized faggot ass out
> of this group and take your shit with you. You are
> nothing but the aids infected cum that rests in a
> fags ass, you need help.. and not from a
> psychiatrist .. from an ax handle to your demented
> head..

Keep this out of here. Though the original posting was uncalled for you
should realize that posting offensive messages like above makes you fit
in the same category as the demented person you're reffering to. 
You really need a smile & hug. PLUR
Cat.

In > Mordekhai > writes: 
>
>
>===> God+Jacob <===
>===> David*Jonathan <===
>===> Love is the Holy Spirit <===
>===> The Holy Spirit ensures the unity of the Holy Trinity <===
>===> Is Jesus the son of Ephraim, the son of Jacob? (read P.P.S.) <===
>
>
>The apostles received many powers from Jesus.
>The well known are: to change the wine into the blood (soul) of
Christ,
>and to change the bread into the body of Christ.
>
>But from Eucharist doesn't proceed the Holy Spirit, as it proceeds
>from the Son.
>
>That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human
semen
>into the Holy Spirit.
>
>Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a
semen,
>it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy
Spirit,
>you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).
>
>What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit blessing.
>
>The beautiful power gave Jesus to the apostles. The power of love.
>
>The apostles used this power first time when they received the Holy
Spirit.
>(Acts 2:1-4) It was a spiritual orgy which looked like a sexual orgy,
but
>instead of semen there was "speaking" the Holy Spirit which looked
like
>a semen.
>
>This power is used also during the eucharistic prayer, because the
priests
>put their hands above the bread and the wine. It is the symbol of love
>(=the Holy Spirit). The bread and wine are filled by the Holy Spirit,
>and by that act the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ
>full of the Holy Spirit. Something similar is happening during making
>a new bishop. Love (the Holy Spirit) can take on himself many images
>(i.e. it can look like many thinks). The image of semen is one of
them.
>
>Mordekhai
>
>P.S.: The virginity of any man is broken only by a fucking with a
semen,
>but it remains unbroken by a fucking by the Holy Spirit. That's why
>Mary is really virgin, because she was never fucked by a semen. She
was
>fucked by the Holy Spirit with the assistance of the angel Gabriel.
>
>P.P.S.: There is possible to envelop a concept of spiritual genealogy
>of Jesus, i.e. the genealogy of the Holy Spirit. Jacob was fucked
>by the Holy Spirit (Genesis 32:24-29). He filled his son Josef
>by the Holy Spirit, and Josef filled his son Ephraim by the Holy
Spirit
>(I Paralipomenon 5:1-2). It continued to the priest Eli which filled
>Samuel the prophet by the Holy Spirit (I Samuel 3:6), Samuel filled
>Shaul the first king of Israel, Shaul filled Jonathan his son,
>Jonathan filled David (I Samuel 18:3, 20:16-17, 20:42, 23:18),
>David filled Sholomo. It continued to John the Baptist which filled
Jesus.
>
>I will be interested to reconstruct the entire spiritual genealogy of
Jesus.
>
>This is, may be, the partial genealogy:
>God->Jacob->Josef->Ephraim-> ...
->Eli->Samuel->Shaul->Jonathan->David->
>Sholomo-> ... ->Elijah->JESUS
>
........

In article >, 
(-Surensoy,E.) wrote:


>         Do you thing Alexander the Great, one of the most merciless Greek 
>         murderers of the history, has anything "to offer to the modern 
>         world" ???


alexander the great was not greek, he was macedonian.  although not
slavic, they were a different people back then.  much of macedonia has
since been absorbed into Greece.

Jason

-- 
Jason Menayan

Serious mail gets a reply; flames get laughed at

In article >,  > wrote:
| -Surensoy,E. > wrote:
| >
| >	Ottoman never declared or calim itself as a Turkish state or any
| >	other political entity; its official language in foreign relations
| >	was Armenian language. Its internal official language was mainly
| >	a mixture of Arabic and Persian sprinkled with a few Turkish words
| >	for which probobly they could not find any Arabic or Persian  
| >	substitutes.
| 
| If this is so, why then is the current Turkish government placing such
| emphasis on honoring such leaders of the Ottoman Empire as Suliman II.
| (if my numbering is right), who died during the 16th century siege of
| the Hungarian fort, Szigetvar.  They managed to erect a statue to his
| memory at that place a few years ago, amidst considerable controversy.
| As I understand it, the Turkish government consider its custodial duty
| to preserve and maintain other memories of that Ottoman era as well.
| It seems to me that in the treatment of Ottoman history, Turks want
| to have the cake and eat it, too. 
| 
| Joe Pannon

Joe - true enough but who isn't doing the same wrt history?

Istvan

In > Mordekhai > writes: 
>
>
>
>>> That's why Jesus gave to the apostles the power to change the human
semen
>>> into the Holy Spirit.
>>
>> I agree that there is a strong parallel between the Holy Spirit and
>> human semen in that human semen is involved in the creation of new
>> life, and when the Holy Spirit comes upon a human being, he or she
is
>> filled with new life, but I don't understand what you are intending
>> to say whgen you say that "Jesus gave to the apostles the power to
>> change the human semen into the Holy Spirit.
>
>I am intending to say that Jesus gave to the apostles the power
>to manipulate the divine person of the Holy Spirit. They received
>the power to force the Holy Spirit to take on himself the image
>of their semen. Not the semen is holy, but the Holy Spirit
>which looks like a semen. It is like Eucharist: the difference
>between bread and wine and body and blood of Christ. Both look
>same, but in fact it is completly different. The sinful sexual
>acts like adultery or pederasty become with the Holy Spirit
>holy.
>
>>> Why it is important? Well, for example when you fuck a boy with a
semen,
>>> it is a sin (Leviticus 18:22), but if you fuck a boy with the Holy
Spirit,
>>> you bless him (Genesis 32:24-29).
>>
>> This seems to me to be saying that the passing on of the Holy
>> Spirit from one person to another is very like sexual intercourse
>> in that it is a gift of new life.  Am I correct?
>
>Exactly.
>
>>> What is without the Holy Spirit adultery, is with the Spirit
blessing.
>>
>> Are you saying that the physical act of sex has to be an actual
>> part of this blessing?  Or is the symbolic act - such as the laying
>> on of hands enought to transmit the Holy Spirit?
>
>The blessing is an ejaculation, i.e. when the Holy Spirit, which looks
like
>a semen, goes out trought someone's penis, and someone is filled
>by the Holy Spirit.
>
>> I Corinthians suggests that the early churches had sexual orgies as
>> part of their worship.  Paul condemned this as being wrong.  My own
>> opinion is that the form of pagan worship that was carried out by
>> the gentile nations included sex-orgies - and Christianity held
>> this to be wrong.  I wouldn't have thought that the spiritual orgy
>> that you describe would have looked like a sex orgy - why do you
>> feel that this is the case?
>
>Well, the power over the Holy Spirit received Peter and apostles as
whole.
>These are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven (Mattew 16:3 (?), 18:18).
>On this power is based the apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church.
>Christians held the gentile sex-orgies to be wrong, because they
>didn't believe that from the gentile proceed the Holy Spirit, and
>they didn't belive that they have the power to force the Holy Spirit
>to take on himself the image of their semen.
>
>In case of Acts 2:1-4 is written about tongues which looked like
tongues
>of fire. From the context is also clear that by that tongues were
>the apostles filled by the Holy Spirit. What is more natural to think
>than that the tongues were the erected penises of the apostles, and
that
>the Holy Spirit, which looked like a semen proceeded through them.
>They filled each other by the Holy Spirit.
>
>To understand the crucial importance of the apostolic power help us
>Platon in his famous work "Symposium" where he decribes the relations
>between him and Socrates. Socrates was his teacher. Socrates met
>Platon when he was 13 years old boy. The relations between them were
>highly homoerotical. Socrates loved Platon, made with him love, and
>taught him philosophy. He taucht him, because he loved him. I think
>that this is exactly the thing that ensures the judeo-catholic
continuation.
>The knowledge of Torah goes hand-in-hand together with Eros. It is
>the mystery of the relation father-son. In the Holy Trinity Christians
>glorify the sacred homosexuality. The Father loves his Son, and he
fill
>him by the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit proceeds from both:
>from the Father and from the Son. The Catholic Church tries to
incorporate
>the life of the Holy Trinity in its own life. That's why there is
>the obligation of celibacy (i.e. to be not married and no other
obligation),
>and inadmission of women to an active priesthood (because from woman
cannot
>proceed the Holy Spirit in his most natural image, i.e. that of
semen).
>
>Mordekhai
>
.............

Aki rendelkezik grafikai vagy zenei(gig,pcx,cut...-mod,bnk,emf...)
allomanyok-nak a leirasaval, akkor legyen szives az alabbi email
cimre elkuldeni: .
Konkretan a mod- es hasonlo zenei allomanyoknak a cimuk,es egyeb
hasonloan fontos inf.-nak a kiszedese erdekel, mig a grafikai 
allomanyokbol a kep merete,szinek szama..., erdekel.
Bocsanat a helyesirasi es egyeb hibak miatt, de kapkodtam mivel
szoritott az ido.			Koszi Andras.