Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 I wish to export computers to hungary (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
2 test (mind)  1 sor     (cikkei)
3 I need a hungarian friend. (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
4 Be'la Szabados: In Light of Chaos (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
5 BULI ! Hungarian Picnic - Washington, DC 05/10/1996 (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Cultural Superiority Complex (mind)  72 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Be'la Szabados: In Light of Chaos (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
8 1956 (mind)  111 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Shock therapy (mind)  62 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Church: Bible stuff.... (mind)  106 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: 1956 (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: komondor, puli, kuvasz, (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)

+ - I wish to export computers to hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

any one out there can help me ?

i have 900 machines to unload at 175$ US !!!
all great toshiba NOTEBOOKS !!!


+ - test (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

+ - I need a hungarian friend. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I need a friend who can tell me about Hungary.
I learned hungarian for four years but I almost forgot after
graduation. But I want to keep in touch with Hungary.
So I need your help.
Is there any body who can help me?
Kossonom szepen
+ - Be'la Szabados: In Light of Chaos (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Some of the readers of Hungary may be interested to look up this little
book (125 pages), written by a Philosophy Professor at University of Regina,
Calgary. I really enjoyed reading this book which does not seem to have any
axe to grind, it has no obvious political agenda. It is about the life of
Hungarian-Canadian, born in Hungary in 1942, came to Canada after the 1956
revolution and started graduate work in 1966. His recollections from life
in Hungary, Austria, and in Montreal is organized in three sections.

The mottos selected for the three sections gives a good indication of his
-   "A true autobiography .. is an impossibility; a man is bound to lie
about himself" -Dostoyevsky [I assume this stands for women too, BB]
-   "You can't REALLY tell it like it REALLY is" -Derrida, borrowed from a
pop song.
-   "Don't apologize for anything, don't leave anything out, look and say
what it's rally like -- but you must see something that throws new light on
the facts." -Wittgenstein

In the Journal on _Essays on Canadian Writing_, n57 (Winter 1995) Marlene
Kadar in an article _Reading ethnicity into life writing: out from Under
the Ribs of Death_ comments this book thusly: "A noteworthy example of a
new Hungarian Canadian text is Bela Szabados's In Light of Chaos, a novel
that can be read as a life - writing text, but one that is neither a "true"
personal story nor fully a "novel."

I hoped to find more examples of this "new Hungarian Canadian text",
unfortunately so far I could not find any. Can anybody suggest any new
Hungarian-Canadian or Hungarian-American fiction in English.

Barna Bozoki
+ - BULI ! Hungarian Picnic - Washington, DC 05/10/1996 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


It's party time!

Young Hungarians' and Friends' Picnic in Washington, DC

Hungarian students and young professionals in the Washington, DC
Metropolitan Area cordially invite you and your friends to our annual
picnic. Join us for an afternoon of fun, food and music.

Date & Time: October 5, 1996, Saturday, 1:00 pm
Place: Rock Creek Park, Washington, DC, outside of the Hungarian Embassy,
in case of rain the picnic will take place in the building of the
Hungarian Embassy (metro accessible)

If you are interested send mail to: 
or check out our web page at: http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/picnic/

This picnic is sponsored by:
Hungarian Embassy in Washington, D.C.
American Hungarian Educators' Association
UMCP Hungarian American Association


Buli van!

Washingtoni magyar fiatalok szeretettel meghivnak Teged es Barataid eves
piknikjukre. Lesz etel, ital es zene.

Mikor: 1996. oktober 5., szombat, 1:00
Hol: Rock Creek Park, Washington, DC, a Magyar Nagykovetseg epulete
mellett, eso eseten a Magyar Nagykovetseg epuleteben (metro a kozelben)

Tovabbi informacioert fordulj hozzank:
www:    http://www.glue.umd.edu/~hungaria/picnic/

Ez a piknik nem jonne letre a
washingtoni Magyar Nagykovetseg,
az Amerikai Magyar Tanarok Egyesulete es
a Maryland-i Egyetem Magyar Amerikai Diakszovetsegenek
segitsege nelkul.

+ - Re: Cultural Superiority Complex (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Talking about Simone Weil, we may want to collect some
facts of her life. Let's have a look at them  (Sz.Z.):

                          Simone Weil -- 1909-1943

          Simone Weil (pronounced "vey") is the patron philosopher
          of the If Monks had Macs... new media library. She wrote
          with the clarity of a brilliant mind educated in the
          best French schools, the social conscience of a
          grass-roots labor organizer, and the certainty and
          humility of a Christian mystic. Andre Gide called her
          the saint of all outsiders. Despite her rapturous love
          of Jesus Christ, she never ceased to study the truths of
          the religions of the East. She stayed outside of any
          church, but her passionate need to share the sufferings
          of others led her to fight with the anarchists in the
          Spanish Civil War, to work as a field hand and an
          unskilled laborer, and ultimately to die in England at
          the age of 34 from tuberculosis complicated by her
          refusing to eat more than Hitler's rations allotted to
          her countrymen in occupied France. After her death
          writers as diverse as T.S Eliot and Albert Camus
          declared her one of our century's foremost thinkers.

                               Weil, the facts

          Simone Weil was born in Paris in 1909 into an affluent
          close-knit Jewish family.

      |   By the time she entered college
      |   she was writing incisive critiques of Marxist thought.
      |   Nonetheless she continued to oppose capitalist systems
      |   of production, not so much because the elite own the
      |   means of production but because another more fundamental
      |   conflict had been added, "by the very means of
      |   production, between those who have the machine at their
      |   disposal and those who are at the disposal of the
      |   machine."

          In 1937 Simone Weil left for Spain to fight on the
          anarchist side of the Spanish Civil War. Although she
          was on the front lines wandering around with a gun she
          didn't shoot anyone, nor, according to her comrades, not
          even at target practice did she hit anything.

          In the last year of her life, in
          addition to her war duties she wrote a number of major
          essays. As she lay dying she wrote "The Need for Roots"
          in which she noted that we have declared the rights of
          man but overlooked the obligations and this has left us
          self-righteous and rootless. The book outlined what Weil
          believed would be the necessary first steps for a
          rebirth of freedom and justice in Europe.

                             Waiting for God:

          "...It is not for man to seek, or even to believe in
          God. He has only to refuse to believe in everything that
          is not God. This refusal does not presuppose belief. It
          is enough to recognize, what is obvious to any mind,
          that all the goods of this world, past, present, or
          future, real or imaginary, are finite and limited and
          radically incapable of satisfying the desire which burns
          perpetually with in us for an infinite and perfect
          good... It is not a matter of self-questioning or
          searching. A man has only to persist in his refusal, and
          one day or another God will come to him."

          -- Weil, Simone, ON SCIENCE, NECESSITY, AND THE LOVE OF
          GOD, ed.     Richard Rees, London, Oxford University
          Press, 1968.- )
+ - Re: Be'la Szabados: In Light of Chaos (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 03:07 PM 9/12/96 -0400, Barna Bozoki wrote:

>I hoped to find more examples of this "new Hungarian Canadian text",
>unfortunately so far I could not find any. Can anybody suggest any new
>Hungarian-Canadian or Hungarian-American fiction in English.

I can't suggest any Hungarian-Canadian or Hungarian-American fiction.
However, last week, CBC radio from Toronto, informed listeners that there is
an Hungarian writing and reading group that meets regularily in one of the
libraries in North York.  They gave a phone number for those who wanted more
information but I lost it.  I guess if you called the libraries in North
York they could give you more information.  And I'll bet that if there are
any good new Hungarian-Canadian fiction the groups facilitator would know.

I hope this helps.

Joe Szalai
+ - 1956 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

REPRESSION 1953-1963.  London and New York: Longman, 1996.

        Forty years ago two important political events shook the world: the
Hungarian Revolution and the Suez Crisis. They both occurred in
October-November 1956, involved the Great Powers, threatened world peace or
rather the Cold War equilibrium but were not interconnected. The decision
to invade Egypt was made before the outbreak of the Hungarian Revolution.
Moscow decided to crush the Budapest regime only when it became obvious
that the reform communists had lost control in Hungary. Neither the West
nor Russia "took advantage" of their opponent's situation.  Western public
opinion in 1956 initially considered the uprising in Hungary the internal
affair of the Soviet empire and thus paid far less attention to it than to
the Suez Crisis. THE NEW YORK TIMES wrote eight times as much about the
latter than about Hungary; the Paris LEMONDE seven times more.  As time
passed, the historical significance of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956
became generally acknowledged. It is likely that the fortieth anniversary
of the popular uprising will be celebrated world-wide and especially in
Hungary, where 1956 will create a greater stir than the 1,100th year of
statehood did this year. Hungarians are at  odds concerning the character
of 1956 and the role of Imre Nagy in the Revolution. In 1990 the Hungarian
parliament passed a law declaring 23 October, the beginning of the
uprising, a national holiday but when in 1996 the same body passed a
resolution ascertaining the historical greatness of Imre Nagy, many members
voted against the proposal. They wished to exclude from the celebration the
ruling socialist party whose prime minister was active in the militia that
assisted the Soviets in putting down the revolution. The celebration and
remembrance will go on, nevertheless, and with the help of the book
reviewed here with a clearer view of 1956 than was possible to date.

        In 1989 a small group of historians and sociologists, many former
veterans of the Revolution of 1956, founded the Institute for the History
of the 1956 Hungarian Revolution. In 1991 the Institute was "asked to
provide a synthesis of the history of the reform era, the Revolution and
the repression that could be used in schools." (p.XIV). The reviewed text
is a modified translation of the Hungarian text. The main text of eight
chapters is preceded by an excellent historical introduction by the London
based Hungarian writer G. Schopflin and concluded with the brilliant
analysis of P. Kende of Paris, France. The staff of the Institute produced
the main part of the book which incorporated most of the new findings
available since 1989.

        The very title of the book reveals something new about the
Revolution. The authors no longer talk about events between 23 October and
4 November 1956 but claim indirectly that the upheaval in Hungary began in
the summer of 1953 and lasted until 1963 only to be resurrected in 1989
when a new generation could carry on the torch from an emasculated one, the
one that was destroyed by the Kadar regime. The authors  also claim that,
except for the notable exception of the freedom fighters, the political
elite of the Revolution, from Imre Nagy to Bela Kiraly, most of the
revolutionary councils, the workers' councils, the writers and most of the
intellectuals, remained reform communists. Even Cardinal Mindszenty, the
most vehement opponent of the communists, including Imre Nagy, spoke in his
3 October 1956 address to the nation about "classless society" and the
"principle of private property limited by social concern." (p.129) During
the last week of the uprising the street fighters forced such concessions
from the communist leadership and Imre Nagy which provoked the Russians to
intervene militarily  to prevent the establishment of an independent
Hungary with a liberal-democratic regime. Between the summer of 1953 and
October 1956 and between  (4)November 1956 and the end of 1963, the workers
and the elite fought for a democratic socialist regime, a democracy within
the party, albeit a one- party system, and freedom of speech and the press.
=46reedom of enterprise, that is capitalism, was rejected. What united the
revolutionaries of 1956 and the reformers was the desire for national
independence and the rejection of the Soviet model of socialism. The two
components of the Revolution, the street fighters and the reformers
temporarily united behind Imre Nagy, who abandoning the Bolshevik tradition
and practices but not necessarily his Marxist faith, decided to lead all
Magyars, socialists and nationalists.

        Peter Kende in his "Afterward" to the book emphasizes the
anti-totalitarian character of the Hungarian Revolution. He claims that
this movement was the most important episode in the destruction of East
European communism. The message from Poland, for example, was that society
is alive, but from Budapest that communism can be toppled. (p.167) Another
major result of the uprising was "an accelerated change in the relationship
between the Kremlin and the European satellite parties." (p.167.) The
intervention on 4 November sealed the fate of the Soviet empire. (p.168.)
That date became the Waterloo of leftist thought. (p.174.) With the
Hungarian Revolution the political and spiritual influence of Soviet
communism went into permanent decline leading to its eventual
self-destruction under Gorbachev. (p.172)

        The book THE HUNGARIAN REVOLUTION OF 1956 covers events from 1953
to 1963 in 170 pages devoting less than fifty pages (55-99) to the uprising
itself. Missing is the description of the role of the Hungarian army and
the State Security Authorities. The style is uneven and it is hard to
imagine how it could have been used as a textbook by Hungarian students.
The sections translated from Hungarian at places border on the
incomprehensible  (p.40) followed by a brilliant analysis in good English
on the next page. Footnotes are absent but there is a useful glossary of
institutions, publications and individuals followed by a selected
bibliography of English-language references. Let us hope that eventually
the Institute of 1956 will be able to produce an authoritative and
definitive history of the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 but for now the
reader will have to be satisfied with this brief summary of their work in

[Decision in the Kremlin, 1956; The Debates in the Soviet Party Presidency
concerning Hungary], Budapest: 1956-os Intezet, 1956.
2. Janos Miska, "Forradalmunk a  vilagsajtoban" [Our  Revolution in the
World Press], MAGYAROK VASARNAPJA [Canada], 23 October 1994.

Peter I. Hidas

Hungarian Studies
Department Of Russian and Slavic Studies
McGill University
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

+ - Re: Shock therapy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:23 AM 9/11/96 -0400, Eva Balogh wrote:

>However, I still believe that Joe fundamentally
>misunderstood my reference to shock therapy.

I didn't misunderstand your reference.  I just don't agree with it.  I was
also commenting on your apparent refusal to believe that the brunt of that
kind of economic shock therapy will be borne by the poor.

>        Let me repeat again. Shock therapy simply means a quick switch over
>from a command economy and state ownership to market economy and
>privatization. Not a dragged out, slow process which the Hungarians opted
>for, but the Polish model of fast change over.

The more drastic the shock therapy the less money Hungary will get.  If
international investors realize that there is a huge "fire sale" in Hungary
they'll know that things can be purchased at bargin basement prices.  And to
whose benefit is that?

>As a result of this radical move, several formerly subsidized state
>factories will simply die or will move into private hands.

I'm sure that the one's that are salvagable have been privatized already.
The rest will die.  Can you understand why a government, any government,
does not want to face that possibility?

>Most likely a lot of people will be out of jobs.

Adding to the high unemployment rate already.  The unemployed do not produce

>Not just the poorest segments of society but a very large slice of the
>population, including engineers, accounts, factory managers, and so on and
>so forth.

The engineers, accountants, and factory managers will probably land on their
feet.  The others?  Who knows for sure?

>However, because of the quick change over to market economy new
>opportunities will arise in time and the temporary hardship will perhaps,
>even everything goes well, will be eliminated.

And maybe it won't.  Not all who play the capitalist game are winners.  Your
faith in capitalism seems religious.  It also appears to be mechanical.

>In Poland it worked, there is a healthy seven-percent economic growth/per
>year. In Hungary, on the other hand, there is no growth and the possibility
>of quick change in this respect is illusionary.

Perhaps.  By the way, did the average Pole's buying power go up by seven

>Hungary still has the same number of unemployed and a large
>segment of the populatiaon live below poverty-level without any hope of
>change. And here the emphasis is ln "without any hope of change."

Capitalism does not solve the unemployment problem.  In fact, it needs
unemployed people to keep wages down.  Capitalism does not solve poverty,

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: Church: Bible stuff.... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, Mark Humphreys wrote:

> Hello Peter,
> I was glad to read your posting yesterday. I don't agree with many points, bu
> it's always a fun debate.
> 1) You asked who is keeping nature's laws in effect.  Well, religious people
>    say a god is and Darwinists say nature itself is. Who knows for sure?
+++++> OK then answer me this WHO/WHAT/HOW/WHY is nature??

> 2) You mention problems being caused because people stray away from the ways
>    the Bible.
++++ I suppose that one takes that from what the Bible said.
>    Well, the Baha'i religion is interesting: they feel as our lives on Earth
>    change and develop new documents are needed to guide these lives... and th
>    Bible has good messages, but is no longer fully relevant.  Human emotions
>    are maybe the same, but society, transportation, communications,
>    have all greatly developed. Each with their own blessings and evils.
>    (Speaking of social changes: People in the Bible and God accepted slavery,
>     but who does today? Should we return to slavery so as not to stray from
>     Bible?)
+++++++> Perhaps you are missing some of the point in the Bible. The
slavery that was accepted (as you say) was because the Jews were sinners
and had been taught a lesson. Later, after they were freed, they also
wandered in the desert for 40 years (to kill off one [sinning]
generation) before they found their way.

The Bahai is interesting in a sense (I have been to a Bahai Temple) where
people - regadless of religion are welcomed and pray --- it has to be
quiet and respectful. Perhaps this is the way all churches (at least the
welcome) should be. Of course there I did not see/hear any sermons.

As far as the blessings and evils are concerned...that is another VERY
interesting issue. If one analyzes life and really looks into it one will
find that EVERYTHING on thsi earth can be used for good or evil purposes.
One hast o make a choice. Let me give an example: I can drive fast and
recklessly, or just fast and carefully, or tag along at the speed limit.
If the first, then I can cause others and myself to be hurt more than if
I was more careful.

I can use my brain for creating a bomb (nuclear) and I would be
successful, but it does not enter into my mind....and even if it did, one
must make a choice!!!

>    ?? Nothing is perfect, so why is it when something naturally has a fault o
>    does something bad... it's as if it should be perfect, but went against
++++++++> ONLY God is perfect, everything else is less!
(If you wish to argue with me, then you can say that GOD=NATURE)

>    This idea of punishments for going against the Bible and against the way o
>    god seems a bit narrow-sighted.  Rome flourished
fine without any help from
>    this god for HUNDREDS of years. China and Japan are doing fine. China
>    had its share of problems because of Western imperialism and Christian
>    missionaries and power plays. Many Thais seem to be doing fine: Many of
>    have heard of Christianity, but choose their Buddha.
++++++> Flourishing as you say does not mean that God approves. It may be
that He is giving them and us time to get things better or right(er).

>    If madcow disease is caused by people not following the Bible's cow tradi-
>    tions, why did many cows die of various diseases before this? In the Middl
>    Ages, I'm sure the poor cows were probably raised close to biblical stan-
>    dards. Even the Black Plaque, I think, was attributed less to god and more
>    RATS!

+++++++> Well if one followed the laws of God then there would not have
been the palgue (flilth, etc.) was caused by unsanitary conditions!!!
Pewrfect example: When an El-Al Israeli plane was hijacked at Entebe
ariport, the only ones that did NOT suffer or get sick were the orthodox
Jews who kept Kosher!!! Try that one one for sizE!!

> This idea that anything unknown or unable to be solved by people should be at
> tributed to a god really escapes me.  If my car breaks down and two mechanics
> can't find the problem, I don't think that would make me think a god broke th
> car. (That sounds like Greeks and Romans creating gods to explain natural
> mena that people at that time did not understand.) This problem possibly mean
>  either the problem is very hard to fix- or so obvious no one saw the

+++++ > Well I do not know, perhaps your mechanics arent worth a dime!
One cannot go balme everything on God that is possibly our own doing or
misunderstanding!  There are many things that people balme on God, yet it
is most likely not His fault at all!

+ - Re: 1956 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In a message dated 96-09-12 19:04:51 EDT,  (Peter
I. Hidas) writes:
>The authors  also claim that, .......
>intellectuals, remained reform communists. Even Cardinal Mindszenty, the
>most vehement opponent of the communists, including Imre Nagy, spoke in his
>3 October 1956 address to the nation about "classless society" and the
>"principle of private property limited by social concern." (p.129) .......

My recollection of the events and the mood of the times is different. I
remember how upset some people were, because the Cardinal asked for the
return of all church property in his speach. The feeling was, that there were
other issues more important to discuss. The country wanted to be read of the
Soviet yoke along with communism -- without returning to the old ways (before
WW2). Times have changed, the hope was to create a democratic
government/society. But than again, I can only speak of my experience. One
thing is certain, everyone wanted the Soviets and the communist regime to
disappear. That probably is the only thing that we Hungarians ever agreed on.

Thank you for your most interesting article. I guess I have some reading to

Marina E. Pflieger
+ - Re: komondor, puli, kuvasz, (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:01:37 +0200, Zimanyi Magdolna
> wrote:

>A few days ago  Andrew_Rozsa > wrote:
> >All this discussion about dogs rekindled a long desire of mine to get
> >a Hungarian dog. Never had the space or the time for one, but now

>If you are interested in Kuvasz, there is a mailing list for Kuvasz
>owners.  If you write to the list or a personal letter to the
>listowner, I am sure you will get helpful messages and a lot of useful
>You can subscribe by sending an E-mail to the address
>with the message body
>                SUBSCRIBE KUVASZ-L Your Name
>Listowner is Melissa Paul >.
>Hope this helps. With best regards,
>szivelyes udvozlettel
>Magda Zimanyi

Thanks, Magda. Will definitely follow through.

BTW, very impressive credentials on your Web page. Loved the article
about the Net. Learned a lot of new Hungarian words. Thanks.

Rozsa Bandi
> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rszsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
> =============================================================