Hermes > writes:



>On 12 Jul 1995  wrote:

>> You can repeat that lie all you want, but that won't make it true.
>> It's an all too obvious attempt of selfjustification by squatters. 
>> Joe

>We may as well resurect the Roman Empire and give them Panonia, for
>that is all the Magyar is, tribes of reindeer hearders that 'settled'
>where ever they could steal land from its rightfull owner. Some were
>even squatters in eastern Transylvania.

>m.c.



first of all the proper name is bozgor -):
second, with you guys around, who needs 
Dima?


--

>From:  (hargitai)

>>> On 12 Jul 1995  wrote:
>>> You can repeat that lie all you want, but that won't make it true.
>>> It's an all too obvious attempt of selfjustification by squatters.
>>> Joe

>>Hermes > writes:
>>We may as well resurect the Roman Empire and give them Panonia, for
>>that is all the Magyar is, tribes of reindeer hearders that 'settled'
>>where ever they could steal land from its rightfull owner. Some were
>>even squatters in eastern Transylvania.

>first of all the proper name is bozgor -):

nah, not nearly as cool as bonghin :=)

>second, with you guys around, who needs Dima?

I see, smocking mushrooms again you are.  What do you expect ?
After Panonescu's goading and galling post, which I quoted entirely 
- I am sure you missed it the first time -, perhaps you expected the 
stupid 'olah' to turn the other cheek. Heck, I am not even cristian 
but agnostic !

Do you think Dima is needed to read the riot act to any moronic
poster ? He doesn't do that anymore, he is a professor now !

But allow me to elaborate on Mr. Panonescu's masterpiece, since you
did not want to allow me to get away with the same kind of joke I am
sure that he intended originally.

Even if the amateur historians of Panonescu's caliber will deny that
Romanians had a continuous presence in Transylvania, they are still in
hot water historically speaking.
If we are to accept that Romanians or Vlachs or Olahs were mere
'squatters' as Mr.  Panonescu so expertly notes, it does not and should
not mean much as far as historical 'rights' to the region are concerned.

For assuming that the 'squatters' came from somewhere south of the Danube,
they would still have a GRANDFATHER clause over Transylvania. For coming
south of the Danube they would most certainly have been the descendants of
the Romans, thus the former masters of Transylvania. The late coming
Magyars would be at best the usurpers. The returning Vlachs would only
have been reaserting their right over the area, now encroached by what
were  formerly nomadic wanderers, driven out of Lapland by their kin,
most likely on account of a rainbow of sexual perversions and other
deviant behavior. But they learned nothing, as soon as they got to
Panonia they started killing, raping, pillaging and sodomizing their
way into Central Europe and Transylvania.

 m.c.

In > Hermes
> writes: 
>
>
>>From:  (hargitai)
>
>>>> On 12 Jul 1995  wrote:
>>>> You can repeat that lie all you want, but that won't make it true.
>>>> It's an all too obvious attempt of selfjustification by squatters.
>>>> Joe
>
>>>Hermes > writes:
>>>We may as well resurect the Roman Empire and give them Panonia, for
>>>that is all the Magyar is, tribes of reindeer hearders that
'settled'
>>>where ever they could steal land from its rightfull owner. Some were
>>>even squatters in eastern Transylvania.
>
>>first of all the proper name is bozgor -):
>
>nah, not nearly as cool as bonghin :=)
>
>>second, with you guys around, who needs Dima?
>
>I see, smocking mushrooms again you are.  What do you expect ?
>After Panonescu's goading and galling post, which I quoted entirely 
>- I am sure you missed it the first time -, perhaps you expected the 
>stupid 'olah' to turn the other cheek. Heck, I am not even cristian 
>but agnostic !
>
>Do you think Dima is needed to read the riot act to any moronic
>poster ? He doesn't do that anymore, he is a professor now !
>
>But allow me to elaborate on Mr. Panonescu's masterpiece, since you
>did not want to allow me to get away with the same kind of joke I am
>sure that he intended originally.
>
>Even if the amateur historians of Panonescu's caliber will deny that
>Romanians had a continuous presence in Transylvania, they are still in
>hot water historically speaking.
>If we are to accept that Romanians or Vlachs or Olahs were mere
>'squatters' as Mr.  Panonescu so expertly notes, it does not and
should
>not mean much as far as historical 'rights' to the region are
concerned.
>
>For assuming that the 'squatters' came from somewhere south of the
Danube,
>they would still have a GRANDFATHER clause over Transylvania. For
coming
>south of the Danube they would most certainly have been the
descendants of
>the Romans, thus the former masters of Transylvania. The late coming
>Magyars would be at best the usurpers. The returning Vlachs would only
>have been reaserting their right over the area, now encroached by what
>were  formerly nomadic wanderers, driven out of Lapland by their kin,
>most likely on account of a rainbow of sexual perversions and other
>deviant behavior. But they learned nothing, as soon as they got to
>Panonia they started killing, raping, pillaging and sodomizing their
>way into Central Europe and Transylvania.
>
> m.c.

I think the real masters of Transylvania will ultimately be the
Transylvanians who live there. It doesn't really matter who came from
where. The Romanians may just as well have come from the bottom of the
Danube or the moon. What's your argument with this?

OD

>In article >  wrote:
>: In article > ,  writes=
:
: In article >, T. Kocsis
: > writes:
: >> I like this say .
:
: >If anything, then "saying", but you probably mean "ditty", or
: >soemthing like that.
:
: No, honeybird, i exactly meant 'say'. Believe or not, i felt it
: very clumsy but I trusted in authorities:
:
:  ### mond=DBka ###
:
: **1:
: Orsz=B7gh L=B7szl=DB
: Angol-Magyar Sz=DBt=B7r:
: say- fn, mond=B7s, mond=DBka
:
: Orsz=B7gh L=B7szl=DB
: Magyar-Angol Sz=DBt=B7r:
: mond=DBka- (sy's) say
:
: **2:
: The Oxford Dictionary of Current English:
: saying- n. frequent or proverbial remark

Honeybird isn't here now, but I'll let her know that
you've left a message for her. I'm sure she'll appreciate
a message from you as her prescription laxatives have run out,
and her doctor is away on hoidays. She will be *very*
relieved to read your missive.

But in the meantime, note that **2 above confirms what I wrote:
"If anything, then "saying","
The Oxford agrees that it should be "sayING" and not "say".

According to page 1893 of The Shorter English Oxford Dictionary of 1980,
the only currently used nouns "say" in English mean:

1. "A cloth of fine texture, resembling serge; formerly partly of silk,
subseq. entirely of wool."

2. "What a person says; words as compared with action; also, a saying,
dictum, now poetic."

3. "What one has planned to say; chiefly in phr. to say (out) one's s."

4. "A talk to or with a person. Now dial."

As an instance of 2, which is the one which comes closest to your
misuse, the same dictionary offers an illustration:

"You hearken to the lover's say,
And happy is the lover."
                        --- A. E. Housman

I doubt that Housman's poetry is what you had in mind.

Since you raised the matter of correct usage,

1. Note that English is one of the only languages which
uses a capital letter for the first person singular. I
don't know why that is so, especially since the first
person singular does not begin with a capital letter
(except, of course, at the beginning of a sentence).
That is just the way it is.

2. "'Say' is precisely what I meant" would probably be the
most natural English equivalent of "i exactly meant 'say'",
or perhaps "I meant precisely 'say'".

3. "Believe or not," should be "Believe it or not".


It is a positive sign that you felt your expression to be clumsy,
because it was extremely clumsy to say the least.
Your English is usually quite clumsy and frequently incorrect.
It is, as I have pointed out before, that it is to your credit
that you nevertheless contribute in what a less kind person
would call a parody of English. I frankly admit that the reason
I don't contribute in Hungarian is that while my Hungarian is
better than your English, it is still deficient. When I have
been asked why I choose to write in English rather than Hungarian,
my answer has invariably been: "Out of respect for the Hungarian
language". I commend you, as before, for writing in your version
of English.

I would like to remind you that I refrained from commenting
on your misuse and abuse of English grammar, syntax, vocabulary
and orthography until you made an issue of these with someone
else. What's sauce for a gander, is surely sauce for a goose
of your calibre.

:
: Orsz=B7gh L=B7szl=DB
: Angol-Magyar Sz=DBt=B7r:
: saying-n.  kijelent=C8s, mond=B7s
:
: /*---*/

Even Orszagh agrees with me here. Of course I have heard that
Orszagh's Hungarian-English and English-Hungarian dictionaries
are/were a Stalinist plot to undermine Anglo-Hungarian relationships.

:
: >> I appreciate your try
: >
: >Yopu probably mean "trying".
:
: The Oxford Dictionary of Current English:
: try-  n. effort to accomplish something
:

The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary of 1980 (p.2375) lists the
current meanings of the noun "try" as:

1. "An act of trying; an experiment (rare), attempt, effort
(chiefly colloq.)"

2. "Rugby Football. The right of attemptinga kick at goal,
obtained by carrying the ball behind the opponent's goal-line
and touching it on the ground; the points scored when the try
is not 'converted' into a goal."

I presume your reference was not to rugby football, in which
ase your phrase is stilted in the context you used it. You
may or may ot be aware that English is a highly contextual
language, so that synonyms are not always interchangeable.
Thus "to build" and "to erect" are synonymous, and it is
common to speak of "erecting a building", but to write
instead of "building an erection" would result in offence
being taken by the more reserved listener, a snigger from the
less squeamish, and inquiries about the location of the
potency clinic you're attending from the flippant. I assure you
that in your context, "I appreciate your try" would jar on the
ears of English speakers.


: BTW, was bedeutet 'Yopu' ?????

Die Bedeutung von ,,Yopu'' ist einfach. Das Wort ,,Yopu'' gibt
es nicht, zumindest nicht in der englischen Sprache. Die
Erklaerung ist ebenso einfach: Ich habe aus lauter Ungeschicktheit
zwei Tasten gleichzeitig getroffen. Ich bin halt ein schlechter
Stenograf.

:
: Youknow,

You probably mean "You know".

: Imi,

When addressing me, avoid presuming a familiarity and intimacy
we patently do not share.

: kett=9Enk k=96z=B8l nem =C8n

The fact that you posted your missive in a public forum, rather than
sending it to me makes it anything *but* "between the two of us".

: nem in vagyok az, aki azt
: hiszi mag=B7r=DBl, hogy tud angolul...
:

Rightly so, since you have provided ample written evidence that
you don't have a very good grasp of English.

I'll pass your message on to Honeybird.

d.A.

////////////////////

When I arrived in Budapest from Bucharest, I told my Hungarian
friends how many dogs I saw in Bucharest. There are tons of
stray dogs in Bucharest today who don't belong to anyone.
My Hungarian friend told me that there are many dogs on the
streets in Budapest. I didn't notice it, however. Could someone
varify this claim?

Jun

////

The explanation is simple, they look human,
and after they have a drink or two, they bark:

HAMMMM ! ERDELYI !
HAMMMM ! ERDELYI !

You might even find them around here as well,
check out this guy called Pannon !

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to .
If you reply to this message, your message WILL be *automatically* anonymized
and you are allocated an anon id. Read the help file to prevent this.
Please report any problems, inappropriate use etc. to .

Thanks to everybody who answered my request. Your help was very appreciated.

And just to let you know: Fekete lyuk was what I was looking for and what
is the name of the Budapest disco. (I've never been there but I heard a
lot about it)

Regards, Rainer

Hermes ) wrote:
: On 12 Jul 1995  wrote:
: > You can repeat that lie all you want, but that won't make it true.
: > It's an all too obvious attempt of selfjustification by squatters. 
: > Joe
: We may as well resurect the Roman Empire and give them Panonia, for
: that is all the Magyar is, tribes of reindeer hearders that 'settled'
: where ever they could steal land from its rightfull owner. Some were
: even squatters in eastern Transylvania.
Get real unalphabetic AH! Try to suck a reindeer, which NO magyar has seen
since following a white buck to their UN-INHABITED land... but of course your 
AH revisionistic thinks would call THAT a UN-inhabited peacekeeper land....
here's a clue: hogs, horses, sheep (szalona,lovas,bunda) ARE magyar, while
reindeer, goats, llamas (o"z,kecske,la'ma) are far away from their environs,
as should be your ravings about squatters... check-out tigers and platypus 
farms in southern Pannonia... open a zoo... AH! jeez!
janos

: m.c.

On 13 Jul 1995, Ors Deak wrote:

> I think the real masters of Transylvania will ultimately be the
> Transylvanians who live there. It doesn't really matter who came from
> where. The Romanians may just as well have come from the bottom of the
> Danube or the moon. 

> What's your argument with this?

None, for it is irrelevant. Resistance is futile, they will be asimilated...
in an amourphous mass of opinci wearing, mamaliga reaking Romanians.

May 'o  Pula-n cur' (The Force in Romanian) be with you forever !

m.c.

Ha már szóba került, hogy az Országh-féle szótár milyen rossz,
meg hogy mijjen béna vagyok az angolhoz, szeretném tudni a
véleményeteket a Kónya-Országh féle Rendszeres Angol Nyelv-
tanról. Dobjam egyből ki a szemétbe a könyvet (húgom biztosan
nem örülne neki, az övét csóreszoltan el, és hoztam ki magam-
mal Svájba), és vegyek valami jobbat ?
Melyik a legjobb angol nyelvtankönyv / nyelvművelőkönyv a
piacon ?

Tamás

Kim Niendorf > writes:

>I have a simple (and mundane?) question for anyone in this group who
>may be prepared to help me.  A friend last week returned from Budapest
>and presented me with a bottle of "Zwack".  Can anyone please tell me

Your question is far from mundane, as it addresses an important piece of
Hungarian culture ;-).

It sounds like you got a bottle of Zwack's UNICUM.  (Zwack is a company name,
Unicum is the product name, and apart from this Zwack produces other 
stuff as well.  Unicum is pronounced "oonikoom", with the "oo" as in "book"
and the "i" as in "it".)

>1)Is this widely consumed in Hungary;

It has been traditional in Hungary before WWII.  After WWII, the company 
was nationalized and continued to produce a version of the Unicum, despite
Mr Zwack contesting the unauthorized use of his trademark.  According to my
friends, the Unicum those days was inferior to today's, as now the company
is back in Mr Zwack's ownership and the secret original recipe is used again.
THe liqueur is quite popular, and it is uniquely Hungarian (although, of
course, there are similar liqueurs especially in Central Europe).

>2)What is it made of (Caramel is the only ingredient I can recognise;

As someone else listed, the only unknown ingredient is the herb extracts.
This is where the flavour is from that makes Unicum unique.

>3)What is the preferred method of drinking (i.e. straight, mixed,
>      diluted etc.)

Straight, if you are a traditionalist.  There may be all sorts of mixes,
but the purists would not touch them.  Serious drinkers drink it with beer 
chasers.  If the flavour is too overwhelming, I suppose you could try it on
the rocks.

As someone else pointed it out, it was originally intended as a digestive.
However, my friends drink it just as much as an aperitif, or a between-meals
drink.  THe latter is most flexible, as if one is not actually eating one is
between meals ;-)

Happy quaffing.

George Antony

Hi everyone!

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Warning: only the parts regarding ESL, Education, Internship and Fly and 
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ready shortly) It is also only in English for now but the other 
langauges, French, German, Italian, Spanish will be ready very soon. We 
are the first "virtual travel catalogue" on-line: choose, book and buy 
your travel or vacation to the USA directly and comforatbly sitting at 
your computer.

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suggestions that you make will enable us to  better our efforts in making 
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to visit the famous amusement park Marine World Africa USA in San 
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receipt.The tickets can be collected from our offices in Santa Barbara 
California, if you can't come yourselves, bad luck, give it to a friend 
who's coming. The tickets are valid until December 1995. We will confirm 
the first 500 winners by e-mail.

Sincerely,

Massimo

In article >, DBrutus > wrote:
>
>If there would have been an acceptable plebescite most of 
>Transylvania would have gone to Romania according to Mr. Pannon.
>Yet even though he admits that most of Transylvania should be
>in Romania, restoring fully half the territory was only "a partial 
>justice".  Am I alone in smelling something wrong here?

Depends what you smell as wrong.  For if you had read an earlier post of
mine (and remembered it, instead of trying to find something you could
catch me on), you would know that I basically object to the idea that a
country with liberal immigration policies should be a victim of those
policies when the immigrants outnumber those who originally established
the state.  It's like inviting guests to a party and then the guests kick
out the host, claiming they are the majority.

But, and this is the key here, if one is forced to partition a country
anyway, - AND - the justification is SELF-DETERMINATION (!), then at least a
plebiscite would be in order!  This is what I was commenting on, and you
were trying to pick on.  Now how about putting on your glasses and check
your seat for that bad smell?
 
>This is nonsense since none of these Cubans would wish to put
>themselves under Castro much as none of the many Italians in
>America would wish to put themselves under Italian rule today.

Yes, but Cuba is not going to be ruled by Castro very much longer.
Italian is a bad example because Italy is not neighbor to the US.  Cuba
is.  So, maybe your problem is not so much with your sense of smell but
your perception.

Joe

In article >,
Hermes  > wrote:
>
>We may as well resurect the Roman Empire and give them Panonia, for
>that is all the Magyar is, tribes of reindeer hearders that 'settled'
>where ever they could steal land from its rightfull owner. Some were
>even squatters in eastern Transylvania.

The Roman Empire was long gone when the Hungarians arrived in the
Carpathian Basin at the end of the period commonly known as the Great
Migration of People.  The standards of that period were quite a bit different
than that of the 20th century.  The closest thing to the UN of that era
was the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and if he legitimized a conquest and
status quo, that was all that was needed.  One does not even have to get
into the who-was-in-Transylvania-first debate to get a concensus on who
established a state in the Carpathian Basin that lasted to this day in
one form or another.  (I think the issue of Habsburg period is a dead
horse, we've covered it here in minute detail.  Same goes for the
Ottoman era.)  That state was recognized by the international community
as legitimate for many centuries, so challenging that legitimacy with
ridiculous claims dating back to over a 1,000 years is absurd.
So I agree with *S* that Trianon was not about what the Romanians like
to call "historic justice", but something much less noble.

Joe

Hello!

I'm coming to Hungary in late August and would like to take part in a
road running race (5-15 km). Could anyone provide me any information
on races organised in Hungary during that time?

Thanks.

--
******************* "Caught in a web,         *******************************
* Mika Perkiomaki *  removed from the world.  *  http://www.uta.fi/~csmipe/ *
*    *  Hanging on by a thread,  *******************************
*******************  spinning the lies devised in my head." - Dream Theater -

In article > Rainer Lingmann,
 writes:
>(I've never been there

You haven't lost anything. It is a shitty place with terrible
acoustics for rubbish music. The bier ist warm and the queue
is always long and slow. The people (mostly 14 years old
kids) as shitty and rubbish as the music.

Tamás

In article >  (Mika Perki|m{ki) azt mondja:
:I'm coming to Hungary in late August and would like to take part in a
:road running race (5-15 km). Could anyone provide me any information
:on races organised in Hungary during that time?

Me too! I'll be there 8/8 => 8/27. I'd be interested in a 10K or half marathon
or a full marathon (if there are enough water stations).

On a related note: I'd like to run from the Felszabadul\'as t\'er (new name?)
in Budapest to the "23 km mark" at Szentendre. Can someone tell me what
directions to take and how far is that (23 km?).

K"osz\"on\"om sz\'epen...Paul

Paul Nevai                            
Department of Mathematics             
The Ohio State University             http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~nevai
231 West Eighteenth Avenue            1-614-292-3317 (Office)
Columbus, Ohio 43210-1174             1-614-292-5310 (Answering Machine)
The United States of America          1-614-292-1479 (Math Dept Fax)

In article > ibokor, 
writes:
>>In article >  wrote:
>>: In article > ,  writes=

>: Országh László
>: Angol-Magyar Szótár:
>: saying-n.  kijelentés, mondás

>Even Orszagh agrees with me here.

Kijelentés, mondás is not equal to mondóka. It seems English has
no word for 'mondóka'.
/*---*/

>: >> I appreciate your try
>: >Yopu probably mean "trying".

>: The Oxford Dictionary of Current English:
>: try-  n. effort to accomplish something

>The Shorter Oxford English Dictionary of 1980 (p.2375) lists the
>current meanings of the noun "try" as:
>1. "An act of trying; an experiment (rare), attempt, effort
>(chiefly colloq.)"

The New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary (1993) says:
3. gen. The action or an act of trying;
an experiment or attempt at something;
an endeavour.

On the basis of the dictionary's definition alone you can
not exclude the way i used the word.
/*---*/

>Since you raised the matter of correct usage,
>1. Note that English is one of the only languages which
>uses a capital letter for the first person singular.

Well, i am neither English nor one of that languages so
i use it as i like it.
/*---*/

>: kettőnk közül nem én vagyok az, aki azt
>: hiszi magáról, hogy tud angolul...

>The fact that you posted your missive in a public forum, rather than
>sending it to me makes it anything *but* "between the two of us".

this is nice to read it from someone who posted a missive in a public
forum, instead of sending me when its topic is considered avoidable
on such forums.

Tamás