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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 HUNGARY Vote in Vojvodina (Vajdasag) (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
2 **FREE Trial Pack of Middle School - College Essays** (mind)  43 sor     (cikkei)
3 Recipes for sale get them now... (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
4 Sell Our recipes. Participate and make $$$$$$ Try it! (mind)  153 sor     (cikkei)
5 OSI-ISO and NATO (mind)  45 sor     (cikkei)
6 Vojvodina (mind)  143 sor     (cikkei)
7 Back to style and Ady (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
8 Personal attack and personal attack (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
9 politika (mind)  85 sor     (cikkei)

+ - HUNGARY Vote in Vojvodina (Vajdasag) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Day before yesterday : Vojvodina (Vajdasag) population was 80-90%
Hungarian in 1918. (This is what I red; a hungarian wrote;
I discard the issues.)

Boris Bjelica wrote yesterday :
Vojvodina has been mostly part of Austrian and Hungarian countries.  But,
the region of original Vojvodina (Banat, Backa, Baranja) declared its
unification with Kingdom of Serbia in 1918.

It is hard to believe that they voted in this way. What happened?
It seems to me that different people know the history happened diferent way.
To my knowledge the people who made the decision they did not ask the
natives. I am on the side that natives must get their own territories
and live by their rules. But the "Trianon idea" was evident : to destroy
the Hungarin-Austrian empire which was competitive to French, England, etc.
But see them today, you can not compare. A "fruitfull way" was to do
this is TO MAKE THE ETHNIC GROUPS AS ENEMIES. And this politics was
very succesfull. (The Habsburgs had done this bofore also.)
+ - **FREE Trial Pack of Middle School - College Essays** (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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+ - Recipes for sale get them now... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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+ - Sell Our recipes. Participate and make $$$$$$ Try it! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

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+ - OSI-ISO and NATO (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

It was with a great deal of surprise that I read the article on the cheap
Internet: why would anybody reopen a standards debate that has been
effectively settled five years ago? Why would anybody bemoan the fact that
yes, anybody can put anything on the internet, with no central authority to
stop him/her from doing so? I was surprised, but as they say in the wine
magazines, I just relaxed, enjoying the nutty flavor (to be honest I didn't
actually think he was a certified nut) and the strong finish (olcso1 no3nek
hi1g a leve -- nesze neked politikai korrektse1g).

There were so many mysteries about this article that it took another one,
this time about NATO, for the scales to fall from my eyes. Mr. Zsada1nyi
writes for the Workers' Party (Munka1spa1rt), the party of the unreformed
communists. Of course he would have sympathy with the outdated, never
successfully implemented, super-regulated but technically inferior nightmare
that was OSI/ISO. Of course he'd be opposed to Hungarian membership in NATO.
Of course he proudly proclaims he is a member of MUOSZ. This proclamation
would make him seem normal (over 90% of Hungarian journalists are members of
MUOSZ), except there was something weird about it, like proudly declaring
you went to grade school. Well, this certainly sets you apart from those who
never learned the three r's, but only at the price of setting you apart from
the ones who don't think that graduating from grade school was a really big

Anyway I welcome Pa1l Zsada1nyi, journalist, member of MUOSZ, to HUNGARY. We
have enough right-wing extremists here, it was high time to get a left-wing
extremist.  I always wondered how long it will take for the true communists
to show up in greater numbers -- E1va Durant must've been getting pretty
tired of guarding the light all by herself. Since the vast majority of the
flaming nationalists opted against going back to Hungary, while few true
communists chose to emigrate when the tides have turned, in Hungary
Munka1spa1rt is as big as MIE1P, if not bigger. Among the emigre1s MIE1P is
still big, and the internet was more accessible to them. But now Hungary has
good enough net connection for Munka1spa1rt finally to show up, which will
definitely shift the debate more towards the actual mixture of opinions we
find in Hungary.

Ironically, better (thogh still very far from good) connection to Hungary
didn't came about thanks to ISO's effort. In fact, it happened in spite of
ISO, who would still be having committee meetings to perfect OSI, with
actual working networks nowhere in sight. Even more ironically, Mr. Zsada1nyi
has net access only becuase Compu$erve, a dreaded multinational corporation,
paid some of its filthy lucre to set up and maintain a net connection to

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Vojvodina (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Bela Liptak
        84 Old N. Stamford Road, Stamford, CT 06905-3961
        T:203-357-7614, Fax:203-325-3922,

It might seem that the Holbrooke-Milosevic pact will deliver justice, as it
makes the Bosnian Serbs to taste their own medicine. Unfortunately, the
domino-effect of this pact creates worst problems than what it solves and the
new victims are innocent third parties: Hungarians and Albanians. Because the
American public is totally unaware of this, I prepared the attached OP-ED
piece. If you need it, I can also fax you maps: Bila Liptak.

        The Balkan Tragedy: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina
It was Mark Almond, who observed, that: "Rarely has there been so much
peace-making and so few survivors." George Orwell, a few decades earlier,
noted, that "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and
murder respectable, while giving an appearance of solidity to pure wind." My
purpose in writing about Vojvodina is to increase the number of survivors and
to expose political language.
     Vojvodina's population is greater than Bosnia's. A multi-cultural
tapestry of Hungarian, Croatian, Serb, German, Roma, Slovak, Romanian and
Ruthenian cultures flourished here for centuries. Yet, many maps don't even
distinguish Vojvodina from Serbia and few in the West know what is happening
there, because few reporters ever visit Vojvodina. Yet, the process of ethnic
cleansing, which caused the Bosnian tragedy, has also reached Vojvodina. The
majority of the over 200,000 Serbs dislodged from the Krajina region of
Croatia and from southern Bosnia are being used to extricate the Hungarian
and Croatian population of Vojvodina.
       Why is it, that by attempting to solve one problem (Bosnia), we manage
to create two: the de-stabilizing of both Vojvodina and Kosovo? Why is it,
that the ethnic cleansing of the Krajina Serbs from Croatia, which our State
Department called  a window of opportunity for peace , and the ethnic
cleansing of the south-Bosnia Serbs, which is a byproduct of NATO's bombing,
might not facilitate peace, and in fact, could draw the neighboring countries
of Hungary and Albania into the conflict. Why is it, that in order to make
Slobodan Milisevic to sign on to the American-led Contact Group's peace
proposal, he has to be offered a trade-off, at the expense of the Hungarians,
Croatians and other non-Serbs in Vojvodina and of the Albanians in Kosovo?
      To find the answers, we have to understand the mind-set of the
bureaucrats in the State Department. In the Kissinger-Eagleburger cookbook,
the recipe for solving international problems is to mix one part of selective
justice with two parts of alternating determination against and appeasement
of the aggressors. Such a recipe usually lacks the salt of an overall plan or
of a long range regional concept. Bureaucrats believe that only the victors
deserve justice and only the losers can be found guilty. Therefore the Serbs
and Croats (in addition to the Muslims) deserve full autonomy within Bosnia,
but the minorities in Serbia, or elsewhere in Central Europe do not.
       For most of the last 1100 years, Vojvodina was part of Hungary. Only
after the dismemberment of the Hungarian Kingdom and the creation of such
unnatural entities as Yugoslavia in 1918-20, did Vojvodina become an
autonomous region of that federation. According to the 1974 Yugoslav
constitution, Vojvodina should be an autonomous province of Yugoslavia (not
Serbia!) This autonomy, and that of Kosovo, were arbitrarily rescinded in
       Vojvodina is the breadbasket of Serbian-Yugoslavia. It, together with
Kosovo, is already it's most densely populated region, consisting of the
Srem, which was the Austrian province, called Croatia-Slavonia until 1918,
Backa, which was part of Hungary and the western part of Banat, also part of
Hungary. The Hungarians did not get involved in the Bosnian war. They did not
side with any of the warring factions. Consequently they are being treated as
enemies by all.
     Today Croatia and Serbia are getting ready to fight over Eastern
Slavonia. Here, in the Baranja region, their war of 1991 has  already
 emptyed of the Hungarian villages. Croatia is also furthering her ethnic
purity in a number of ways. In the Krajina region, not only Serbs, but other
minorities, including Hungarians, have been "cleansed." Croatia has also
quadrupled the taxes on the Adriatic vacation homes of Vojvodina Hungarians,
which, under the present economic conditions is the same as confiscating
       At the time of Hungary's dismemberment in 1920, Vojvodina's Serb
population was only 25%. Through expulsions, and other forms of uprooting of
the non-Serb population and by importing Serb colonialists, the Serbian
population by 1948, has increased to 55%. During the Communist era, this
ethnic cleansing process has further intensified, and by 1991 the Hungarian
population of Vojvodina was reduced to 17%.  In order to escape being drafted
into the Serbian Army, some 100,000 young Hungarians left Vojvodina during
the last couple of years. Today, only 350,000 Hungarians remain in Vojvodina
and the only compact cluster of Hungarian presence that survives is in the
north-central part, along the Tisza river. It is this  problem  that the Serb
refugees from the Krajina and south-Bosnia are supposed to  solve .
       According to the Democratic Community of Hungarians in Vojvodina:  The
Hungarians of Vojvodina are facing the danger of a FINAL SOLUTION, because
Vojvodina is being purged of its non-Serb popula tion.  According to them,
the Croat victory in the Krajina and in south- Bosnia was so swift, because
this  population transfer  has already been agreed to by both the Serbs and
the Croats.
       Bela Csorba, a Hungarian MP in the Serb-Yugoslav Parliament, described
the ethnic cleansing of a small Hungarian village named Svilojevo (Szilagyi)
in this manner:  The Krajina Serbs cruised up and down the streets of Apatin,
Sombor, Sonta and Svilojevo. On August 11, 1995 homes were confiscated from
their owners. By the time we have arrived to investigate, the village was
almost completely abandoned by its original inhabitants.
       Part of the problem is due to the difference in the personalities
between the Krajina Serbs and the indigenous inhabitants of Vojvodina,
incuding the Hungarians. The Krajina Serbs have a warrior mentality, they
carry guns, for centuries they have been in uninterrupted conflict with the
Croats, their view of life is based on constant struggle and hate for one's
neighbors, their personality corresponds to the rugged terrain they have
inherited. The placidity of the people of Vojvodina, including the
Hungarians, corresponds to the openness of their fertile plains. Yet, their
friendly and mild personality does not mean, that their patience is
unlimited. They are a strong and determined people. Monica Seles is a
Vojvodina Hungarian.
       Politicians who push Hungarians to the limit, should remember 1915,
the only time when Serbia was occupied in this century, or 1956, when the Red
Army learned, what happens, when Hungarians lose their temper. Hungary has
already accepted some 50,000 Hungarian and some 100,000 non-Hungarian
refugees from the disintegrating Yugoslavia. This economic burden, combined
with the loss of Hungary's southern markets, is testing her frail economy to
the limit. She has already protested the ethnic cleansing of Vojvodina and
will have no choice, but to defend her interests more forcefully, if this
process continues.
     So what is the long range solution, not only for the microcosm of
Vojvodina, but also for the macrocosm of Central Europe?
      The immediate steps should include the dispatching of UN and NATO
observers to Vojvodina, and the restoration of her autonomy. These steps
should be made an integral part of any overall peace agreement.
     As to the longer range solution, which would bring stability to the
whole of Central Europe, it is essential to replace the practice of selective
justice and appeasement of aggressors, with  clearly defined overall goals
and with uniform standards that are applicable to all. Richard Holbrooke is
right, when he wants to provide group rights to all three ethnic groups in
Bosnia, but he is wrong, if he wants to limit these rights only to Bosnia.
There will be no peace in Central Europe, until all ethnic groups are
guaranteed their full cultural autonomy.
     On the other hand, once the ethnic tensions are eliminated through the
universal guarantee of cultural autonomy, the root cause of the upheavals in
the Balkans can also be solved. The cause of instability is the  power vacuum
 in the region. Throughout history, the Balkans were stable, when local power
existed in the Danubian Basin. For centuries, this stabilizing force was the
Kingdom of Hungary, followed by the Austro-Hungarian Empire. It should be
clearly understood, that the present power vacuum can only be eliminated
through the reestablishment of a powerful local entity: the formation of an
economically self-sufficient, politically stable and militarily neutral
Danubian Confederation.
       In 1920, President Wilson felt, that only through the formation of a
Danubian Confederation can a peaceful and prosperous Central Europe be
re-established. It would be a tribute to Wilsonian vision, if President
Clinton, would recognize this and would express his support for the Danubian
Bila Liptak is a former Yale professor, who has published many technical
books and has recently been invited to Budapest as a Fulbright Scholar.
+ - Back to style and Ady (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

After being away for over a week I found an incredible amount of mail in my
mailbox. It will take me a few days to read through it all carefully enough
to be able to comment on some of the discussions. Until then just a short
piece about Endre Ady and Hungarian journalistic style. Andras Kornai wrote
an interesting piece about it a day before my departure.

Oh, yes, I agree that Endre Ady is responsible for the style of Hungarian
journalism of today, but it still doesn't make it any better as far as I am
concerned. And I say this although I greatly admire Endre Ady as a poet. He
was THE POET of my teenage days. One of my first independent purchases was a
volume of his collected poems, and even today I have a strong emotional
reaction to his verses in spite of the fact that now I am much more aware of
his mannerisms. But let's go back to his prose.

By the turn of the century practically all Hungarian poets and prose writers
made their living by working for newspapers as journalists. While some
American composers and poets were earning their living by working for
insurance companies (I think here of Wallace Stevens and Charles Ives) the
Hungarian men of letters preferred journalism. But, as Andras himself
mentioned it, Endre Ady's style was a peculiar one: rhapsodic, pathetic,
highly stylized. His journalistic activities--as a result of his fame as a
poet--also received quite a bit of attention, of course. For example, his
collected prose works were published by the press of the Hungarian National
Academy in many, many volumes. When one of these volumes came out I did
purchase it and you know what: I found it almost impossible to read through
it. Even if you were quite familiar with the political events of the day it
was close to impossible to follow his writings. By today's standards, by
American standards, it was bad journalism. The first rule of journalism that
it is written with such conventions in mind that anyone, even those
unfamiliar with the events, can easily understand it. This is certainly
wasn't true of Ady's writing then and it is certainly not true of Hungarian
journalism now.

The meandering style of Hungarian journalists can be simply irritating. You
want to say: cut to the chase! Let's get it over with! Come to the point! The
former prime minister of Hungary, Jozsef Antall, was known for this kind of
meandering style, for his endless sentences. I just finished a biography of
Antall in which the author of the volume gave "one" sentence uttered by the
prime minister in a speech. I am not even trying to translate it.

"A masik, amit ehhez hozzateszek, hogy a masik oldalon, ahol joszandeku
emberek kozott, de olyanok akadnak, akik elvetik a parlamentaris demokracia
intezmenyet, meg akkor is, hogyha a parlamentaris demokracia idonkent
tehetetlennek bizonyul, nem kepes gyorsan vegrehajtani ugy, ahogy egy
diktaturaban konnyu, meg az sem eleg indok ahhoz, hogy valaki errol a
demokraciarol lemondjon, mert vallom Churchill-lel es masokkal, hogy meg
mindeg a a lehetseges legjobb a legrosszabbak kozott ez a politikai rendszer,
es az ido mindig ennek a politikai rendszernek dolgozik, es azokra nem kell
hallgatni, hanem fel kell venni a politikai es eszmei kuzdelmet, akik valoban
nem tudjak neha, hogy mit beszelnek, akik bolsevik, mensevik szarnyakrol
beszelnek a Magyar Demokrata Forumban, vagy akik olyan kijelenteseket
tesznek, amelyek tevedeseken alapulnak, gyanusitgatasokon, azok tovabb kell
menni, es tudomasul kell venni, kerem, azt a tenyt, hogy egy diktatura
bukasakor, egy diktaturabol a demokraciaba valo atmenet idejen, amikor az
emberek sokfele okbol lesznek eloszor ellenzekiek egy totalis rendszerrel
szemben, lassan tisztul meg a politikai ellenzek, nagyon sokan kerulnek mint
szellemi ellenzek es nagyon sokan kerulnek mint pszichiatriai ellenzek
(taps), eppen ezert azok, akik a magyar politikai ellenzekhez a pszichiatriai
ellenzek oldalarol csapodtak oda, azok hangosak, es elobb-utobb majd csak
megszabadul tole a magyar politikai elet."

I believe that there is a connection between thinking and writing. Clarity in
writing signals clarity in thinking. On the other hand, unclear writing
usually means muddle mindedness.

Eva Balogh
+ - Personal attack and personal attack (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

My friend Ferenc has to say the following:

>But, having admitted your lack of a proper education, why do you then
>passing judgement on Hungarian practitioners of prose?  Not having been
>exposed to examples of good writing, it is only natural that your knowledge
>of the subject is less than adequate.

That takes gall considering that I happened to be majoring in Hungarian
literature and linquistics at the University of Budapest before I left
Hungary. Thus, I spent three years studying Hungarian literature and was
successful enough to be allowed to concentrate only on Hungarian and able to
drop my second major. (It was called "tudomanyos egyszakos," a rare
distinction. In my class there were only two people chosen.)

You objected to Gabor Fencsik's "personal attacks" in the very same issue you
published the above personal attack--a most interesting twist.

Eva Balogh
+ - politika (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

 MET HU ISSN 1216-0229 *  INTERNET HIRUGYNOKSEG * MET copyright 1990
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tartalom : BELPOL, KULPOL -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
- Ujabb miniszter mondott le veglegesen...
- Kell-e nekunk Mohi ?
- Deviza vita - nem a borunkre megy a jatek
- Magyarorszag EBESZ misszioja. Es a vajdasagi magyarsag ?


 - Ujabb miniszter mondott le veglegesen...
 - Kell-e nekunk Mohi ?
   Kosane Kovacs Magda lemondott munkaugyi miniszter sajtotajekoztatojan
kijelentette, hogy lepese -az elterjedt varakozasok ellenere-
vegleges, annak ellenere, hogy Horn Gyula miniszterelnok november
30-an meg ujbol visszaterne lepese visszavonasara. Kijelentette, hogy
lemondasa nem a stabilizacio ellen szol, arra szukseg van, de a
tarsadalom teherbirasan es a jogallamisag keretein belul. Lenodasaval
meg akarta akadalyozni, hogy az alkotmanyellenes 25 napos munkaadoi
betgszabadsag-fizetesi kotelezetseg egyaltalan kormanyjavaslatta
valjon illetve a parlament ele keruljon. Komoly mukodesi zavarok
vannak, de sokszor az utolso pillanatban kapnak meg a kormanytagok.
A penzugymiminszternek tulhatalma van, holott az lenne a helyes, hogy
az egyes esetekben a szaktarcae legyen a donto szo. Helyes, hogy
szakmai szempontok eseteben a donto szo ne a penzugyi tarcae, hanem
a szakminiszteriume legyen.
    Az Orszagyules szuneteben...
tartott sajtotajekoztaton bejelentettek (Fidesz-MPP) hogy a
biztonsagi kovetelmenyeknek nem megfeleloen fellepiteni kivant
Szlovak (Mohi) atomeromu hataraink kozeleben reagalast kivan az
Orszaggyulestol. Ezt hatarozati javaslat formajaban terjesztik a
T.Haz ele. A kormanyparti es ellenzeki kepviseloknek egyarant
kotelessege, hogy "nem piszkalva, hanem segitve a kormanyzati
munkat" alkotmanyos kotelezettsegeinek - az orszagyyulesi kontroll
megvalositasanak eleget tegyenek. Egy ilyen atomeromu ellen egyebkent
nyugati korok, pl. Osztrak reszrol is mar tobbszor tiltakoztak.
   Ezutan a kormanykoalicio kepviseloi jelentettek be, hogy a most
vitara bocsatott devizatorveny elfogadasa fontos lepes a forint
konvertibilitasanak megvalositasa fele. Hasonloan helyes lepesnek
bizonyult (a spekulacio visszaszoritasara - a szerk. megjegyzese) a
folyamatos csuszo forimntleertekeles bevezetese - hangoztattak a
koalicio kepviseloi.
-  Az Europai Biztonsagi es Egyuttmukodesi Szervezet es a Baltikum
  Kovacs  Laszlo  kulugyminiszter,  az  EBESZ  Soros Elnoke varhatoan
holnap erkezi vissza tallini es rigai utjarol, ahol a legmagasabb
szinten folytatott targyalasokat az EBESZ  esztorszagi, illetve
lettorszagi tovabbi szerepvallalasarol.  A szervezet egyebkent mar
mindket orszagban  mukodtet  allando  missziot.
- EBESZ-misszio Horvatorszagba. Erdos Andre helyettes allamtitkar, az
EBESZ Soros Elnoke szemelyes kepviselojenek vezetesevel 1995. oktober
6-an EBESZ- delegacio jart Horvatorszagban,  hogy  felterkepezze  a
szervezet  allando horvatorszagi  jelenletenek  felteteleit.  Az
elmult idoszakban  az  EBESZ tagallamainak koreben felerosodott az a
torekves, hogy a szervezet az eddigieknel aktivabban kapcsolodjon be
a delszlav valsag megoldasaba azokon a teruleteken, ahol komparativ
elonyokkel rendelkezik mas szervezetekkel szemben, oly modon, hogy ne
veszelyeztesse a mas csatornakon folyo rendezesi torekveseket.  Az
allando misszio - amelynek telepitesevel a horvat kormany is
egyetertett - elsodleges feladata a tervek szerint az lesz, hogy
segitse a nernregiben visszafoglalt horvat teruletek bekes
reintegraciojat, a demokratikus intezmenyek kiepiteset, illetve
megerositeset.  A delegacioban, melyet Erdos Andre vezetett,helyet
kaptak az Osszekoto Csoport tagallamai, es valamennyi programban
reszt vettek az Europa Tanacs kepviseloi.
   A KM sajtotajoekoztaton az INTERNET HIRUGYNOKSEG kerdesere -az
elemenekult vajdasagi magyarok visszateresi lehetosegeirol-
Szentivanyi Gabor kulugyi szovivo valaszolt. Megerositette, hogy a
hazankban tartozkodo vajdasagi menekultek kerdeset szem elott
tartjak. Tudnak a nehezsegekrol (kulfoldi hirforrasok tobbszor
emlitettek, hogy a hazaikban mar sok esetben szerbek laknak - a
szerk.)  es a megoldasban sokat tehetnek az ottani magyar
szervezetek, valamint a HTMH. Termesztesen az EBESZ is -cselekvesi
lehetoseget kap a megoldashoz vezeto uton.
                           Szerkesztette:  Orczan Csaba Sandor
           * INTYERNET HIRUGYNOKSEG * MET (c) 1990 *
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