Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: Csurka (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: The Medium is the Message (mind)  51 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
4 Canadian businessman-accountant going to Hungary, summe (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
5 Hungarian economy (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
6 Kornai-Balogh-Fencsik vs Pellionisz (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
7 THAT Antonescu? (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
8 Agents are dressed in impeccable style (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
9 Vigasztalja (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
10 It is "lazadas", stupid! (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
11 small mistake (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Style (mind)  66 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Csurka (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
15 Open Letter to Finance Minister of Hungary (mind)  95 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: THAT Antonescu? (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Vigasztalja (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
18 Csurka (mind)  105 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Hungarian prose (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: Csurka (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> There are rumors, for instance, that Goncz himself was a "rat"
> while in prison.

-- says Joe Pannon.  And he is right.  Let me point out that sentences
beginning with "there are rumors..." are very special logical constructs.
They constitute their own proof.  For example, I might say

 (1) "There is a rumor that Joe is wearing a padded bra."

This statement is automatically true.  There is indeed such a rumor.
I just started it.  In fact, statement (1) is not only true, but also
consistent with its (apparent) opposite.  That is, I might assert (1),
along with

 (2) "There is a rumor that Joe's bra is *not* padded."

These are both true statements.  Both rumors do exist (now).  They
exist for purposes of illustrating an interesting fact of modal logic.
The examples are not intended to reflect on Joe's recreational habits
in any way.  And if they do, they are only a rumor.  Right?

Best regards,

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Re: The Medium is the Message (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hugh Agnew asks:

> What I'd be interested in knowing, perhaps from people who read regularly
> the FORUM and/or SZALON lists, is: what are Messrs Pellionisz and Nemenyi
> like when they write in Magyar language?  And, if their style in English
> is a reflection of their style in Magyarul, what literary/journalistic
> tradition is it rooted in?  Or is it their unique discovery?

A close textual analysis of the voluminous oeuvre of these masters is not
yet possible.  Years of immersion in their work is needed before the
manifold layers of meaning can be understood and appreciated.  Tracing each
subtle allusion back to its literary roots is a task for future generations
of scholars.  As yet, we can merely scratch the surface.

The subtle interplay between their English and Hungarian writings is in
itself a rich field for future research.  The English texts are much more
than faithful translations of the Hungarian originals.  They reflect the
full tonal range and sensibility of the original text, but they also add
that 'je ne sais quoi' that is the mark of a master translator.  They mimic
the inflections of the Urtext with great precision, including the elements
that resist intelligibility and signification -- what the Lacanians call
'substance morcelee'.

The trickiest task facing the translator is to find the voice that most
closely approximates the tonal quality of the original.  For example, a
Hungarian translator of Huckleberry Finn must find a specific linguistic
layer to transplant Huck's (and Jim's) speech into the target language.
This may be hard at times.  There is no ready-made Hungarian dialect to
mirror Jim's speech patterns.  It is the translator's job to make one up
with the materials at hand.

Dr Pellionisz and Mr Nemenyi were faced with just such a problem.  They
had to find a lingo, a voice, a linguistic layer to correspond to a style
(their own) that has no English equivalent.  They solved the problem
independently and simultaneously.  The solution they found is brilliant.
They adopted the literary style and tone of early 60s vintage Japanese
car owner's manuals.

This was a masterstroke of the translator's art.  Those early Japanese
owner's manuals were a steaming heap of verbal brilliance.  A gem in every
sentence.  "When a passenger of the foot heave in sight, tootle the horn.
Trumpet at him melodiously at first, but if he still obstacles your passage,
then tootle him with vigor."  And so on, ad nauseam.  The very tonality and
texture one was looking for.  Just what the Doctor ordered.  The result is
something very rare and precious: an English version that faithfully
reflects the Hungarian original, while managing to improve on it in terms
of clarity, economy of expression, and intellectual depth.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dan Pop ) wrote:

: Anyway, for some obscure reasons, the Hungarians from USA and Canada seem
: seem to despair orders of magnitude more than those from Transylvania.

How do you know this?   Do you have Hungrarian friends, perchance?

I happen to know 3 families and a few other persons here in the Seattle
area who came from TS, and I didn't hear very many good things from them
about Romania.
+ - Canadian businessman-accountant going to Hungary, summe (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hungarian born, Canadian businessman-accountant will travel to Budapest
during the summer,1996.

   Will take on assignments to look for business opportunities,  do
investment and business evaluations and audits.

Robert Gelb C.M.A.
Robert Gelb and Associates Inc.
12 Bradenton Drive,Willowdale,Ontario M2H 1Y5
(905)946-1734 FAX
- Business Plan and Investment Specialists
- Business Plan Evaluations
- Start up ventures
- Financial Consulting
+ - Hungarian economy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear fellow Hungarians,

I need a few economic facts about Hungary.

I would like to know what the current inflation rate in Hungary is these
What are the interest rates the banks are paying on deposits in Forints?
And what about on deposits in Dollars? Can capital be moved freely in and
out of the country?

 If someone took a couple of minutes to answer, it would be greatly


Frank Kemeny
+ - Kornai-Balogh-Fencsik vs Pellionisz (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have been following the whole sorry course of this angry exchange far
longer than it merits.  By now it has deteriorated -- if it is possible at
all -- into a mud-slinging match from both sides.  Enough already!

It is especially disheartening to see one of the participants -- Gabor
Fencsik -- to waste his considerable wit and facility with the language on
personal attacks on his opponent.   His writings tend to consist of derisive
comments and empty witticisms without anything his own to contribute.
 Andra's Kornai and Eva Balogh have enriched this list with many original --
and often controversial -- contributions that have enlivened FORUM and
spawned several interesting discussions.  I think most of us would like to
hear something original from Mr. Fencsik as well, if he has anything of his
own to say.

+ - THAT Antonescu? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Episcopia Reformata
>Str. Marshal Ion Antonescu 1
>Oradea 3700, Romania

I couldn't believe my eyes.  Is that street named after the Rumanian fascist
dictator?  Please say it ain't so!

+ - Agents are dressed in impeccable style (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Now it is clear to the reader that NO ONE issued a "call to arms"
for Oct. 23, 1995. This started the debate on Whatshisname.

Who LIED to us here, was also the one calling Dr. Endrey "senile"
(in "Forum"). That triggered the heated exchange on IMF vs Endrey.

Can anyone tell me where this style comes from?

(1) throw in a major insult and then
(2) pretend to be the elderly virgin who smells like a paper-rose?

To me, her style smells like something completely different.
Readers on "Forum" sniffed out exactly what she is.
The same as her smooth talking liberal male friend.
Who carries too much luggage to set foot in "Forum", however.
+ - Vigasztalja (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Revai Ersebet vigastalja o haitassal tellyes urat
>"vigas[z]talja" = comforts
>"o haitas[sal]" might be "ohajta's" = wish
>"tellyes" = "teljes"? = complete?
>Erzsebet Revai consoles her lord with a wish? Does this make sense? But I
>can't quite figure out what it means "teljes ur" since "complete lord"
>doesn't make a lot of sense.
I think you need to put "tellyes" together with "o haitas" to make
"o haitassal tellyes" -- wishful, full of desire so that it becomes
Revai Ersebet consoling her lord (who is) full of desire. I also
suspect it's not her (feudal) lord but her husband...

Andra1s Kornai
+ - It is "lazadas", stupid! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Folks!

   I guess Hugh's gentle reminder didn't get through. But such
people don't understand nicely worded messages. It is just not
in their nature.
   I was trying to stay out of this,  but I can't let "hitting
below the belt" go by.  Calling a lady a lier is just one step
below wife beating,  and a clear demonstration  of the lack of
understanding the  Hungarian language in this case.  The other
problem is,  with people  like Pallionisz,  that they are even
bragging about such behavior. How sad!
   BTW - does anybody know when Pallionisz was released ......
from the asylum that is?
   I hope that he and his cohorts  will move back to the black
hole in the ground and stay there. Having done this yesterday,
were way too late.
   Let's get some civility back on this list!

**       #@&@#@&@#         AMOS  J.  DANUBE         #@&@#@&@#       **
**  "Cherish          **       Rutgers - The State University       **
**       Yesterday,   **               of New Jersey                **
**   Dream of         **       Library of Science and Medicine      **
**       Tomorrow,    **  P.O.Box 1029, Piscataway, NJ 08855-1029   **
**   and Live         **  Voice:908, 445-2896  Fax:908, 445-3208    **
**       for Today!"  **       E-mail:        **
**       SMILE!  It makes 'em wonder what you've been up to!        **
+ - small mistake (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The Alexander von Humbolt Foundation
(AvH) enables young highly qualified scholars of
foreign nationality holding doctorates to carry out
research projects of their own choice in Germany
(age limit 40 years).  Applications may be
submitted for long-term research stays of
between 6 and 12 months.

>From the Information Sheet of the Alexander von
Humbolt Foundation.

Dr. Pellionisz,

Since you stayed the "compulsory" 6 months visit,
that goes with the Humbolt Prize, would you please
list the scientific publications, which resulted
from this stay? I am unable to find them in our
MELVYL Current Contents DataBase. Did I miss

Gyongyi Gaal
+ - Re: Clinton-Iliescu Meeting (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In >  (Janos
Szamosfalvi) writes:

>Dan Pop ) wrote:
>: Anyway, for some obscure reasons, the Hungarians from USA and Canada seem
>: seem to despair orders of magnitude more than those from Transylvania.
>How do you know this?   Do you have Hungrarian friends, perchance?

Yes, of course.  Even relatives.
>I happen to know 3 families and a few other persons here in the Seattle
>area who came from TS, and I didn't hear very many good things from them
>about Romania.

I happen to know families in Cluj and they didn't seem particularly
worried.  Of course, they knew pretty well that they couldn't sell me
the usual hostile propaganda, which is good only for export to people who
have no clue about Romania's realities and are ready to buy anything
about the Hungarian and Gypsy "discrimination", "genocide", "oppression",
etc in Romania.

Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland
+ - Re: Style (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> Felado : Pannon Jozsef
> These are pretty interesting observations.  I am curious though ...
> where would you put Jozsef Debreczeni's style?
I only read a couple of pieces by Debreceni and I would not want to pass
judgement on such a slim basis. But the one I remember best, about the
naked emperor (A1rpa1d Go2ncz) was not a cool analytic piece...

> As to that quote from Csurka, well ... who wouldn't have a few writings
> like that in some closet?  Especially those who made their living with
> the pen.
Quite a few. The most important poets to survive WWII were (on my subjective
opinion) Lajos Kassa1k, Sa1ndor Weo2res, and Gyula Illye1s. Kassa1k was
absolutely unbendable: as a long-time supporter of the culture of the
proletariat he could have become a communist eulogist easily, but he didn't.
Weo3res was declared a formalist (an enemy of the people for all practical
purposes) and didn't have to compromise himself. Illye1s did have to
compromise himself, but I think he never wrote Stalin-odes or Ra1kosi-songs.
It's the same for prose: Ge1za Ottlik never compromised, Tibor De1ry did.

> Is it much worse than all the "correct" answers we gave in the
> the "Scientific Socialism" (Tud Szoc) courses at the university in
> essays or verbal exams?  How many of us really meant it then?
You forget the date. It was 1975, not 1955. I just finished high school and
I remember *exactly* how much ideological pressure was applied. I was under
considerable pressure to get a haircut. It was understood that lack of KISZ
membership might be viewed as problematic at the university entrance exam.
But nobody, nobody wanted rousing declarations of faith in socialism and the
working masses. To be sure, such declarations, or being a member of the
Worker's Guard, were useful to advance your carreer. But they were by no
means required: people by that time could make good carreers without them.
Even the cultural censorship was loosened, and in the early seventies
Weo2res and Kassa1k was published again.

> BTW, what ever happened to that lustration committee of judges that
> caused such an uproar with their revelation that they already found a
> few former agents among the MPs?  I always wonder if any of those were
> among the chorus damning Csurka for "signing."  So don't tell me about
> Csurka until we are not allowed to find out about the other signers,
> many of whom actually delivered on their signatures.
Didn't Der Spiegel back in 1992 publish some of Csurka's (code name:
Rasputin) reports on his fellow writers? But I don't care, the man is
politically dead. He and MIE1P got about the same size of fringe vote as
Gyula Thu2rmer and his Workers' Party.

A much more interesting character is Jo1zsef Torgya1n. He is also fat and a
good rabble-rouser, but this is where the similarity ends. Torgya1n survived
Antall's maneuvering, Csurka didn't. Torgya1n carried his party against all
significant opposition (O1molna1r and others) while Csurka never succeeded
in getting significant political figures to join his party.  Finally,
Torgya1n never played the race card. For all his bombastic style, this is a
very clever man, worth watching. He positions his party at the right side of
Parliement so that he, and not Csurka, will actually catch the fringe right
vote. More important than this 2% is the 6-8% or so yellow dog Smallholders,
and the "kuruc" wing of the MDF, another 5%, which finds Torgya1n much more
palatable than Csurka. So he has maybe 15% to begin with, and the big
contest at the next election will be between the Smallholders and the
moderate right wing (Christian Democrats, MDF, Fidesz) which is already
forming a coalition. Unless somebody or something changes Mr. Orba1n's
thinking, the tripartite model of politics (left-center-right) is indeed
doomed, and a bipolar model (left-right) will define Hungary for many years
to come. Why Orba1n, after being the independent "kid of divorced parents"
finally decided to go with one parent (MDF) against the other (SZDSZ) I
don't know, but maybe it's a winning strategy. We'll see at the next

Andra1s Kornai
+ - Re: Csurka (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have to give it to Fencsik: he's got a way with words!  Not to mention
his ability to totally miss the central point of his opponent's message
when he sees an opening in some peripheral comment.  So let me state
my point again: criticism of Csurka's past by people whose past was not
subjected to similar scrutiny is simply not credible.  The fact itself
that they so vehemently oppose lustration makes them suspect.
Compared to this point my "rumor mongering" about Goncz was only an

On the other hand, Gabor's recalling those japanese car owner's manuals
was a real master stroke!  Even if it had been at my expense.  Because who
would not recall those manuals with fond memories?  The last time I
encountered that style was not here though, but in the official
publications of the former, Antall government.

+ - Open Letter to Finance Minister of Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Nyilt Level
Bokros Lajos Penzugyminiszternek
Budapest, Jozsef Nador ter 2/4
H 1051, Hungary                             1995  szeptember 23
Fax: (+36-1) 117 8389

Kedves Bokros Lajos!

A magyar nemzet kamatrabszolgasaganak karterites kovetelessel
valo feltorese celjabol Dr. Endrey Antal Magyarorszagon elo magyar
allampolgar (angolszasz teruleten szerzett tobb evtizedes nemzetkozi
tapasztalattal biro ugyved)  julius 6-an Dr. Horn Gyulahoz irt
leveleben kozerdeku irasbeli javaslatot tett a gyakorlatilag mar az
egesz Vilag elott ismertte valt magyar penzugyi valsag megoldasa
vegett. Mind Endrey Antal levele, mind pedig az a valaszlevel
Endreynek melyet Horn Gyula hivatala egy heten belul irt (s
melyben az on altal vezetett Penzugyminiszteriumot szolitja fel
valaszadasra) az "Internet" szamitogepes halozaton eredeti magyar
nyelven es angol forditasban a legteljesebb nemzetkozi
nyilvanossagot latott.  A tobb listan folyo igen heves vitak nagy
tobbsegben Dr. Endrey javaslatanak helyesleset mutattak. Voltak
akik azt egyenesen zsenialisnak tartottak, amennyiben az
jogalap lehetne az adossagfizetes felfuggesztesere. Az is felszinre
kerult, hogy a Nemzetkozi Valutaalap (IMF) szamos orszagot egyre
melyebb nyomorba donto politikajat mar mintegy ketszazotven
szervezet tamadja igen elesen (kb. fele az USA-ban, fele Europaban
es a Harmadik Vilagban mukodve). Ez nem meglepo, hiszen az ENSZ-
nek ezen intezmenye is a felevszazad elotti, a II. Vilaghaboru utani,
nem pedig a jelenkori, III (hideg) Vilaghaboru vege utan fennallo
geopolitikai allapotokat tukrozi, s igy hasonlokeppen inkompetens a
posztkommunizmus problemainak megoldasaban, mint ahogy a
balkani haboru "megoldasaval" is mondhatni igen keseru csalodast
keltett eddig a Vilagban. Tragikus, hogy a magyar nemzetet mindket
inkompetencia sujtja. Ugyanakkor igy Magyarorszag szamara
kulonleges szerep indokolt abban, hogy Dr. Endrey javaslataval
kezdemenyezokent lepjen fel az IMF ellen a legalkalmasabb
helyeken meginditott leheto legtorvenyesebb eljaras (per) legalabbis
igen komoly es nyilvanos megfontolasaval, meg akkor is ha azzal
nem mindenki, vagy nem mindenben ertene egyet.

Koztudomas szerint kozerdeku bejelentesekre kozhivatal 30 napon
belul valaszolni koteles. Az, hogy az on Miniszteriuma most mar tobb
mint ket honapja sem adott valaszt Dr. Endreynek, kulonosen
sulyosnak tunik annak fenyeben, hogy valaszadasra a Miniszterelnok
hivatala irasban felszolitotta. Igy ha egy valasztot nem is meltatna
valaszadasra, meltanyosnak tunne azt feltetelezni, hogy legalabbis
hivatali felettese, a Miniszterelnok fele szolgalati kotelmenek tartja a

Termeszetesen ha sem a magyar nemzet, sem a valasztok, sem pedig
a kormany fele nem erezne kotelezettseget, csupan a Nemzetkozi
Valutaalap fennhatosagat szolgalna, az a kesobbiek szamara
rendkivul vilagossa es igy konnyen es egyertelmuen
megallapithatova tenne az on tortenelmi felelosseget.

Felmerulhet onben is, vajon miert eppen egy kulfoldon (USA-ban) elo
magyar allampolgartol kap on egy ilyen termeszetu nyilt levelet.
Nos, minduntalan azt vagjak azon magyar allampolgarok szemebe,
akik Lengyelorszag IMF adossaganak immar masodik lefelezeset
(negyedeleset) hozzak fel kovetendo peldanak, hogy "persze, mert
Lengyelorszagnak eros Amerikai emigracioja van, amelynek
segitsegevel ezt meg lehetett csinalni, de hol a magyar emigracio?"
Ezert szeretnem on tudomasara hozni, hogy a Magyarorszag
adossaganak konnyiteset kivano magyar allampolgarsagu kulfoldi
szemelyekbol komoly erot tudnank mi is szervezni, igy hat az on
ilyen termeszetu elhatarozasa eseten ne habozzek azt az
erdekeltekkel haladektalanul kozolni.

Nagyon szerencsetlennek lehetne erezni, ha idejetmult ENSZ
szervezetek kettos inkompetenciaja utan Magyarorszagot meg az a
tovabbi is sujtana, hogy a vezetes elzarkozik megoldast kereso es
szorgalmazo parbeszedektol. Kotelessegunk lehet emlekezni arra,
hogy 1956-ban egy hasonlo kommunikacios ellehetetlenules, mikor
Gero Erno mereven elzarkozott attol, hogy a Radional jogos
koveteleseiket hangoztato tomegekkel dialogusra lepjen, egy
iszonyu tarsadalmi robbanast gyujtott be, holott erdemi dialogussal
az meg talan elkerulheto lett volna.  Perspektivabol ugy velheto,
hogy kulonosen amennyiben az Endrey-pereket jogalapkent lehetne
hasznalni az IMF adossagfizetes felfuggesztesere, egy ilyen
kezdemenyezes tarsadalmi megvitatasatol valo elzarkozas nem csak
valaszadasi felelosseggel jar.

Legjobbakat kivanva:

Dr. Pellionisz Andras, USA-ban elo magyar allampolgar
San Francisco obolkornyek
Postacim: 1030 E. El Camino Real, #393, Sunnyvale, CA 94087, USA
Fax: (408) 746-2765

E "Nyilt Level" masolata elkuldve az alabbiak szamara:
(1) Dr. Endrey Antal
(2) Nyomtatott es elektronikus sajto
(3) Internet
(4) Miniszterelnoki titkarsag
+ - Re: THAT Antonescu? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>>Episcopia Reformata
>>Str. Marshal Ion Antonescu 1
>>Oradea 3700, Romania
>I couldn't believe my eyes.  Is that street named after the Rumanian fascist
>dictator?  Please say it ain't so!

So it wasn't just I who noticed this!  I have a feeling that it's not a
coincidence that they chose to "honor" the street where the episcopal
seat of Laszlo Tokes is.  It was probably a deliberate choice.
On the other hand, this migh turn into a shot in the foot if Tokes makes
a point of circulating that address in the West as much as possible.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: Vigasztalja (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Re: Kornai's interpretation

>I think you need to put "tellyes" together with "o haitas" to make
>"o haitassal tellyes" -- wishful, full of desire so that it becomes
>Revai Ersebet consoling her lord (who is) full of desire. I also
>suspect it's not her (feudal) lord but her husband...

That's how I read it, too: full of (lustful?) desire.  Though I don't
quite get it why she had to console him about that, if you get my

+ - Csurka (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


  (I am aware that my English writing skill is still less than perfect,
   even that it is a bit of a shame. Warning: I am an egghead mathematician
   whose liberal art credentials are closely approximating zero)

    I would like to comment my old
  buddy in pellioniszbashing , Andrash Kornai, on a different matter.
  I have reread many of Csurka's early plays and I can still feel
  the same way I felt the first time. Csurka was an excellent playwright
  a not-unusually-leftist patriot, and yes, a honest and
  brave member of the tiny and not very influential Hungarian Anticommunist
  Opposition. I am aware of his upbringing, his father went extremely
  far-right , Istvan Eorsi a former friend noted Csurka's early
  anti-semitic sentiments, and yes, there was the infamous Szigliget incident,
  when the completely drunk Csurka called a woman a "jewish whore".

  He was accused to make lip-service for the Kadar goverment at the time
  of the occupation of Czechoslovakia. (He had written a commentary
  which was read shortly before the announcement of the Warshaw Pact inter-
  vention) He got several awards from Kadar. (Even, Goncz got some,
  Antall got even more, you
  had to do something really "gross" to avoid this kind of embarrassment.)

  His first drama-success was "Who will be the Loser?!" (Ki lesz a balanya)
  a play about the 1956 tragedy , so moving that Kadar personally tried to
  stop the rehearsals. Aczel, whose relation to Csurka, Csoori and
  others was always very,very strange, brought Kadar to a public rehearsal
  and convinced him to give a green light. Moreover, the storyline
  did not end with the so-called " red tail". ( Red tail was
  a sort of proof of loyalty, a piece of proletarinternationalistic crap)

  I liked Dead Mines ("Doglott aknak", it was published under the title
 " Mr Moor and Mr Paal"), although it was more "mainstream", it ridiculed
  anti-communism (well, sort of red tail) ,it was kinda sitcomish, well-crafted
  comedy, like when Old Noam Chomsky meets Old Rush Limbaugh in a
  hospital, prostate problems soon evolve to politics. Really funny stuff.

 In the "Deficit" , which I
 regard as one of the best dozen Hungarian plays ever written, you might find
 a certain alienation from 1956. It is hard to judge. Whether it is
 about lost illusions, or about futility of revolt, or a bit more
 serious in the sense of reconciling with the Party, I do not know.
 In the "Deficit" a certain luggage was hidden, it supposed
 to contain a machine-gun, used in 1956. At a molnarisque
 last scene it turned out the luggage was empty, so empty that
 you knew the machine-gun never existed. As far as I know
 Csurka disassociated himself with the "Dead Mines" (stupid decision), but
 still considers "Deficit" as one of his best works.

 In the "Janitor's Apartment", (Hazmesterlakas), Csurka stepped over
 any red line you can imagine. Openly ridiculed the corruption of
 the communist system. He presented the underclass of Kadar-style socialism.
 Their humiliations, their dependence, their pityful lives.
 Yes, he had socialistic values, (see also "Kettos Kolbasz"
 collected short essays) he sympathised with the "little guys" lost in the
 communist bureaucratic system. Even nowadays, his  "brownness" has
 some obviously pinkish spots. In this play,  Csurka's tale involves
 the memory of the Holocaust, in an era , when
 jewishness was completely taboo, when the radio could not broadcast
  "If I were a rich man". A young jewish woman is one
 of the most loveable character on the scene.

  By the way, when Grosz
 persecuted  Jewish opposition figure Gyorgy Gado a complete nuts too, years
 later Csurka's biggest enemy : Istvan Csurka publicly critized Grosz
 in the samizdat "Beszelo". It  was the late 80's, but still, not
 a adviseable career-move. Csurka's former friends (Zelk, Rez Pal
 and others) were almost exclusively Jews. In spite  of his genuine feeling
 about Bekes, and the Hungarian peasantry, he was a "lipotvarosi"
 very, very urban playwright. He bet on horses, was a formidable poker-player,
 played "lehuzos" (a game involving the series-number of paper money)
 he was a former national team athlete, drunkard, good fellow, and
 of course, serious womanizer. ( I am certain, that the way Antall knew about
 the Signature, Csurka knew about the Other Woman. The lady in black, who
 was awarded the day after our late prime minister passed away.)

 Even if we accept the fact, Csurka had prejudice against jewish people
 (just for the record, my father is a Holocaust-survivor, this piece is
 not intended to be any kind of a Csurka-apology),
 it is still unimaginable for me, why he did, what he had done.

  Csurka has never been an informant. He was tortured, blackmailed,
 so he signed, something. This part does not count. The fact that
 lately he protested against the outcome of the Miss Hungary Pageant,
 because the winner was not "hungarian", that counts. This is madness.
 (The gal is Weinberger or something. Average foxy modell-looking
 He published tons of anti-semite, racist crap. From 1989 to 1995.
 That counts. He is calling for an armed (he specifically addressed
 army officiers and policemen) uprising, that counts.

 I am always mad, when former commie bootlickers are alluding to
 the early maoism of Haraszti, early marxism of Kis, or the fact
 Peto's father might or might not have been az AVO-man.  I am unwilling
 to do anything even similar.
 Csurka was a good man, a honest man, a genuine patriot. He became
 a pathetic nazi. Somewhere, not too deeply I must say, he represents
 our failures. Our failure to communicate with, our failure to
 tolerate views different from ours, our failure to admit our errors.
 Now we pay for it. We pay with lost friends, with lost hopes, with lost

  That is pretty
 much it. So long. EG
+ - Re: Hungarian prose (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Balogh writes:

>Unfortunately, Hungarian prose writers could learn a bit from the much more
>economical writing in English--fewer words, tighter constructions, logical
>sequences of thought. I as a high school student in the 50's was never
>to write properly.

Dear Eva,

The fact that you were not taught to write properly is probably not your
fault.  There are plenty of people in the States, too, who actually graduate
from school without being able to read or write properly.  It is generally
the school that is at fault, as I am sure you know.

But, having admitted your lack of a proper education, why do you then proceed
passing judgement on Hungarian practitioners of prose?  Not having been
exposed to examples of good writing, it is only natural that your knowledge
of the subject is less than adequate.  I hope you read Andra's Kornai's
posting, which addressed the question in proper depth and perspective.