Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: question (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
2 International Adoption Law (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
3 Dayton-1 (mind)  65 sor     (cikkei)
4 Kadar - Forgiveness (mind)  78 sor     (cikkei)
5 Hungarian coalition against bankloan-slavery (mind)  246 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: anti-Semitism (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: anti-Semitism (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: anti-Semitism (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Andrew Szolnoki message (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: anti-Semitism (mind)  36 sor     (cikkei)
11 Seeking to contact Dr Kopits Istvan (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: question (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Juhi wrote:

>Liptak Bela in his reminicences wrote that the Israelis (together with the
>British and the French) took advantage of the Hungarian uprising to attack
>Egypt. Hidas Peter wrote that the Russians took advantage of the Suez crises
>to attack Hungary. There seems to be a contradiction here. Which of the two
>statements is true (or closer to the truth)?  Juhi

I don't see any contradiction.  I think the Brits and Israelis were pretty
much ready for the Suez invasion when the uprising presented them a
golden opportunity to strike.  Then their strike made the Russian
decisions to crush the uprising easier.

Joe Pannon
+ - International Adoption Law (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


I am sorry for disturbing you and for any duplication due to my
crossposting of msgs to other lists.

I am currently researching adoption law around the World.  In
particular I am trying to find a country where it is possible for 2
adults to adopt each other quickly and easily.  I believe that this
could be beneficial in certain cases relating to immigration and
nationality law, and also relating to wills and probate.

If anyone can help I would be enormously grateful.  May I apologise
again if I have wasted your time.  As I am not necessarily a
subscriber to this list I would be grateful if you could contact me

Sanwar Ali
BCL Immigration Services
Acorn House
74-94 Cherry Orchard Road
Surrey CR0 6BA, UK

Tel: +44 181 680 9621
Fax: +44 181 667 0378
+ - Dayton-1 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues.

The Dayton Daily News is making an impact of the national media concerning
the thinking about Central Europe. It would be helpful, if the paper was
flooded by fax messages which suggest the broadening of the scope of the
meeting. You can send a letter similar to the one below not only to the
Dayton Daily News, but also to your local paper.
Please do: Bela Liptak

Dayton Daily News
(FAX: 513-225-2088)

To The Editor,

Unfortunately the plan for a Greater Serbia has succeeded. Nothing proves
that more clearly than the maps in the American media, which now include
Vojvodina and Kosovo as part of Serbia. That was the goal of the Serbian
dictator. Slobodan Milosevic, the cause of the Bosnian tragedy is an unlikely
pillar of it's solution. The deal that he is after, is to get the blessing of
the international community to keep Kosovo and Vojvodina, in exchange for
Bosnia. But instead of satisfying the desires of a ruthless dictator, we
should see and act on the larger picture.
       The collapse of the Soviet Empire was an earthquake, which damaged the
building of Central Europe. To make this building stable and self-supporting,
temporary reenforce ment of one floor (Bosnia for one year) is not enough. If
that is all that is done Western Europe will shortly be flooded with
despairing refugees and the whole region will be destabilized. Cracks are
already appearing on the floor of Kosovo, where Albanians are oppressed and
collapse is imminent on the floor of Vojvodina, where Serb refugees are
cleansing Croats and Hungarians.
         Therefore, the scope of the Dayton Conference, should not be limited
to Bosnia and the participants should include all heads of state of Central
        History has shown, that whenever a power vacuum evolved in the
Carpathian Basin, the Balkans became unstable. History has also shown that no
outsiders, not even the UN, the EC or NATO can permanently fill such a
vacuum, because they have no vital interests in the region. The only people
who have a vital interest in the stability of that region, are the people who
live there. Therefore, what is needed is the establishment of an economically
self-sufficient, politically stable, militarily neutral and geographically
large enough federation, which can fill the present power vacuum. Such a
Danubian Confederation can be crystallized around the nucleus of Austria,
Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Slovakia and Ruthenia, and later can be expanded
to also include Poland, The Baltic States, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Czech
Republic and even Italy.
       The building of such a federation requires both the support of the
international community and an atmosphere of reconciliation. Armies can not
create an atmosphere of reconciliation, only justice can. Justice can only be
provided through the guarantee of autonomy to all ethnic groups. Just as the
autonomy of Tyrol has eliminated the tensions between Austria and Italy, the
granting of cultural autonomy to all indigenous minorities of the region will
do the same for Central Europe. Once ethnic tensions have dissipated, the
atmosphere for federation will be ripe.
       President Wilson originally proposed such a federation. It would be
fitting if, 75 years later, it would be American leadership, which catalyzed
its formation. History does not solve problems accidentally, a better future
can only be achieved, if we have a vision of it today. It is such a vision
that is needed at the Dayton Conference.

Your name, address, title
+ - Kadar - Forgiveness (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

George Antony wrote:
>Either I have amnesia or you do.  My recollection is that up to 1982
>(whenI left Hungary) there was no public discussion of 1956.

All right, may be the term  public discussion  was too excessive.  Of
course, there was no public discussion about  56 in the national media.
However, how about Gyorgy Moldova s book about  56 which was allowed to
be published in the early seventies (Sorry I forgot the title).  That
book started most sincere talk about  56.  How about, the history
classes in general school (1968 - 1970) where teachers told us how
Kadar did the right thing and his government was the only solution to
the crisis.  How about, the annually changing  explanations  from the
KISZ and Party agit.prop. personnel who was called in before every Oct.
23rd for brainwash meetings, and was told different lies about  56, and
was also encouraged to spread that word to the masses in response to
questions (1970 - 1984).  How about, university professors discussing
 56 in history related classes (1975 -1980) and desperately trying to
justify the legitimacy of the Kadar government in response to student s
questions, and portraying Kadar and his party as the best thing that
could happen to us.  (By the way, most of these professors appeared on
the other side, after 1989, in different parties in high positions, in
the government as cabinet members and advocated just the opposite.
Disgusting!!!  Sorry, this is a different story.)
What were these?

G.M. wrote:
>> One acknowledged that Kadar was responsible for calling the Russians
>> back, however, it related that a Russian invasion was inevitable
>> anyway.
G.A. wrote in response:
>This is truism, not propaganda.

Truisms do not get created in a vacuum.  Where did you live?  Did not
you notice that hordes of reliable party members wrote countless
 hangulatjelentes  about the state of the mind of the masses.  In
response to these reports, Party and KISZ theoreticians created counter
propaganda, trained the personnel to have ready response to common
questions from the people.  These people then commingled with the rest
of us and very effectively spread the party supported propaganda that
obviously did not have the appearance of propaganda.  They were
packaged as friendly discussions and advice from the senior class to
our young generation who did not, could not know all the facts.  Didn t
you notice it?.  Wasn t that propaganda?  It was present everywhere, in
the schools and in the workplace.

G.A. wrote:
>If life in Hungary was better than in other Eastern-Bloc countries
>that must imply some competence on part of the leadership.

Competence in what?  Taking away the wealth and redistributing it in a
way that bankrupted the Country so deeply that She cannot escape from
that situation until today?  Is it competence to pour money -- the hard
earned money of all of us -- into consumer consumption, or social
programs, and neglecting to capitalize and modernize the industry and
the agriculture?  I hardly believe such a remark from someone living in
a capitalist country.

G.A. wrote:
>I get mad every time I read this red herring of some people not having
>other reliable sources of information.  Everybody I knew knew of Radio
>Free Europe and owned a radio receiver that was suitable to listen to
>it.  There were plenty of alternative sources of information ...

It is obvious that you were a member of the highly educated part of
society and you had the sense, the interest, and the encouragement from
your piers to listen to other sources.  I was, too.  However, the
masses at the end of the lower education hardly listened to Radio Free
Europe or any other Western source.  It is a mistake to believe that
the majority of people listened to them.  Time to time when a very
important news hit the media and sounded fishy (for example the shot
down of the Korean airliner by the Russians) then people tuned to these
sources for explanation and thruth spread rapidly.  Otherwise these
western sources did not have too much effect on the majority of people.


Gabor Morocz
+ - Hungarian coalition against bankloan-slavery (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

My mailbox is stuffed recently by a new "paper".
I found this article the other day very interesting.
Andras Szucs

Subject: Nemzet 1995.10.30.
X-Subscribe__: >
X-Unsubscribe: >

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Wolfenshon faces coalition to liberate Hungary from IMF bankloan-slavery

World Bank President James Wolfenshon, in his visit to Budapest, ran into
tough opposition. An "Open Letter" to Wolfenshon appeared on Saturday
(28th) in daily "Magyar Nemzet", signed by 17 leading economists of
Hungary. The extremely detailed professional analysis, running a full-page
in the paper, takes the ill-advised and secretive IMF policies into
shreads. Cutting expert criticism leaves no doubt that IMF bureaucrats are
totally ignorant of special socio-economical problems of "post communist
societies" and provide blatantly incompetent answers to the unprecedented
historical challenge.

The "Open Letter" is but the latest piece in a broad-based popular
coalition that was put together over the tumultuous 39th anniversary, last
weekend, of the 1956 anti-soviet revolution in Hungary.

This time it is not oppressive foreign tanks that Hungary is up in arms in
opposition, as she was in 1956. Today, it is the oppressive foreign banks
that "Hungarian Financial Freedom Fighters" are uprising against.

"Coalition to liberate Hungary from International Monetary Fund
bankloan-slavery" aims at breaking financial dependency on a monopolistic
and secretive IMF, by cancelling its part in Hungary's staggering $32
Billion foreign debt.  Hungary would thus follow the pattern of massive
reduction of IMF-debt that Poland, Bulgaria and even lowly Albania could
already successfully implement, leaving historically "avant guard" and
proud Hungary in the dust so far.

The coalition is as broad-based in Hungarian society, within and outside
the borders of this tiny Central-European "post-communist" country, as
broad is the rationale of the popular movement.

As for its base, no single political party can claim dominance over the
grass-root movement, although practically all parties in opposition of the
ruling Socialist-Liberal coalition are linked to it in varying closeness.
The leader of the movement in Hungary, Dr. Anthony Endrey, an elderly
statesmanlike lawyer with impeccable professional and political
credentials, who repatriated in 1988 after a 40 year exile to Australia, is
extremely reluctant to brand his teflon-clean crusade with particular
political parties, groups, races or ideologies within or outside Hungary.
Dr. Endrey claims that it is basic survival interest of *all* people in
Hungary to liberate their homeland from the crushing burden of foreign
debt, originally amassed in completely illegal fashion by lawless

In a letter to (socialist) Prime Minister Mr. Horn on 7th of July, Dr.
Endrey proposed that Hungary file lawsuits against IMF/Worldbank for
"negligent advice", claiming billions of dollars in compensation. Mr.
Horn's office responded forthright, signalling interest as well as the
existence of a most uncomfortable straightjacket, but coyly assigned the
duty of reply to Finance Ministry, lead by IMF-puppet Mr. Bokros. Since he
is a most despised, supremely arrogant hatchet man who loves to inflict
social misery on Hungarians by slavishly implementing the ignorant
IMF-decrees, it is not surprising that Mr. Bokros elected on customary
stonewalling of "complaints of the oppressed aborigines".

Thus Dr. Endrey, on 7th of September, filed lawsuit himself against IMF
President Mr. Camdessus.

Also, an external pillar of the "Coalition to liberate Hungary from
International Monetary Fund bankloan-slavery" was formed in California, led
by a Hungarian scientist living abroad, Dr. Pellionisz. He addressed an
"Open Letter" to Mr. Bokros by September 23, appearing in daily "Uj
Magyarorszag" in Hungary and posted at various Internet lists. This
reminder of the responsibility of replying, as well as of the historical
fact that the 1956 revolution exploded when jaded leaders failed to engage
in dialogue with revolting masses was apparently well timed, as the Open
Letter arrived at the very time when Hungarians prepared themselves for a
massive anti-government rally on 22nd of October, 1995. Thus, within two
days after Pellionisz's "Open Letter", Finance Ministry did indeed reply to
Dr. Endrey, and in a most significant fashion. Mr. Bokros assigned the duty
of reply to socialist Secretary of State at Ministry of Finance (Mr. Laszlo
Akar), who apologized for the delay and signalled that "they also study
themselves the opportunity spotted by Dr. Endrey".  Apparently, Socialists
know full well that after (an imminent) collapse of their coalition with
Free Democrats the only way to avoid a chaotic bankruptcy would be a
reliance on Dr. Endrey's perfectly legal lawsuits, by declaring a
moratorium on IMF debt payments while the lawsuits are pending.

In the meantime, social support started to rally behind Dr. Endrey in a big
way. A highly reputed panel of "Independent experts" (MAG) issued a
proclamation a month ago in the Hungarian and the English language, in
support of the movement to attain a massive reduction of IMF-debt. The
proclamation was signed by economists (e.g. prof. Erzsebet Gidai), lawyers
(e.g. Zsolt Zetenyi, former representative to Hungarian Parliament) and
prominent Hungarian intellectuals (e.g. Imre Makovetz, architect of the
World-famous Hungarian pavilion at the Barcelona EXPO).

The series of celebrations of the 1956 revolution last week displayed a
virtually unanimous support of the movement by nearly all political
parties. Except the liberal SZDSZ, which painted itself into the
politically suicidal corner, that of the servile executor of foreign (IMF)
interests over Hungarians. No political power since the AVO (Hungarian KGB
in 1956), assumed such openly subservient role to foreign interests. Over
the celebrations of the 56 Revolution, the first rally of tens of thousands
of demonstrators was that of the radicals ("MIEP": Party of Hungarian Life
and Justice), putting forward its twelve demands; where right after
demanding the resignation of the government the second point was the
"immediate termination of bankloan-slavery and the dismissal of Mr. Bokros
and Suranyi" (liberal puppets of IMF). MIEP leadership emphasized also
another failure of the UN in Hungarian matters, i.e. that the "Bosnian
embargo" imposed by UN inflicted economic damages on Hungary amounting to
billions of dollars, with no compensation whatsoever. Next day (23rd of
October) an entire coalition of "National Federation" (composed of
Smallholders, Christian Democrats and Hungarian Democratic Forum) echoed in
its demonstration the 12 points, particularly the call for termination of
IMF bankloan-slavery. In addition, Dr. Torgyan, head of most popular
"Smallholders'" party addressed a letter early this week to IMF, sharply
protesting its meddling in Hungarian sovereignty, especially doing so in an
offensive patronizing manner, amounting to humiliation of the proud
Hungarian nation. "World Federation of Hungarian Freedom Fighters", led by
Gergely Pongratz is particularly offended by such "high horse" attitude of
(otherwise very mediocre) UN bureaucrats, as brave Hungarians put up an
armed rebellion to Soviets in 1956 and delivered the first fatal blow onto
the Communist monolith, while UN bureaucrats hid in remote corners shying
away from "interfering with Soviet dominance over East Europe" and coming
to the help of bleeding Hungarians. Apparently, betrayal of Hungary by the
UN once was enough. With the second betrayal of Bosnian embargo it is more
than enough. With the third betrayal, of ill-advised post-communists
economic policies, Hungary is completely fed up with the UN. Freedom
Fighters of Hungary now submit therefore the bill to the UN for what they
claim as 1956 amounting to 1% of the cost of "beating Soviet Communism".
(Cancellation of $30 billion debt is 1% of the cost of "Cold War"; widely
claimed as approximately $3 trillion).

Dr. Endrey, having received tacit encouragement of his movement from
Socialists (MSZP), outright support from Smallholders (KGNP), Christian
Democrats (KDNP), Hungarian Democratic Forum (MDF) and Hungarian Life and
Justice (MIEP), decided on the 24th of October on filing his case with the
Constitutional Court of Hungary. In his legal objection, he claimed that
lawless communist Hungary "joined" the IMF/Worldbank illegally and
unconstitutionally, with no authorization from her people, thus loans taken
must be collected from communist officials and not from the innocent
Hungarian people. Given the fact that the Constitutional Court of Hungary,
with its socialist bent, already almost fatally torpedoed implementation of
IMF policies by Finance Minister Mr. Bokros, it is quite likely that Dr.
Endrey's movement "liberation of Hungary from IMF bankloan-slavery" will
gain a boost from the Constitutional Court.

Lastly, the official "blue" press in Hungary, controlled by IMF-puppet
militant-liberals of the "Free Democrats" (SZDSZ), elected to ignore, or
worse, to ridicule Endrey, the head of "liberation of Hungary from IMF
bankloan-slavery" movement. Nonetheless, a couple of dailies (e.g. Uj
Magyarorszag and Magyar Nemzet) and periodicals (e.g. Magyar Forum and
Nemzeti Ujsag), as well as several Internet-listings provide publicity for
the movement. In fact, extremist sleeze-tactic of the "blue" media appear
to be badly backfiring in Hungary: it already resulted in a virtually total
rejection of media-misrepresentations by the people, comparable only to the
rejection of earlier pathological lies (mostly by the exact same
journalists) during the "bygone" (?) communist era. Economic and social
polarization and tension is so great that even moderate liberals are
extremely worried about the backlash that the hyped-up tactics of the
irresponsible "blues" are likely to trigger.

P.S. [I asked "Nemzet" to comment on the most recent developments, and
received by return mail the following addendum]

While IFM is arm-twisting with Hungary over a new "standby" loan, to
provide continuity for bankloan-slavery, Germany has stepped in to signal
her interest in East-European capital markets, should they free themselves
from the yoke of IMF. When negotiations came to a dead end and the IMF boys
left Budapest in a huff a few weeks ago, Kohl quietly threw in DM 1 Billion
to Hungary. Most interestingly, half of the amount was contributed by the
Federal States of Bayern and Baden-Wurttenberg, thus Kohl remained immune to
the immediate and very sharp criticism from the IMF for "meddling with the
official IMF-line over East-European matters". The second round came
just a few days ago in late October, when visiting WorldBank President
extended a "helping hand" to Hungary (worth $200-300 million even if IMF
negotiations remain frozen!), out of fear of loosing this milk-cow
altogether, while Germany virtually on the same day stepped-in (again) with
another DM 300 million, this time from the Federal State of

One wonders how many German Federal States are in line to bid coyly against
IMF on the emerging Central European capital market. One is even more
curious what would happen once Dr. Torgyan (a longtime champion of bringing
Pacific Rim capital into the region) became successful in making the
present "two-sided equation" between Anglo-American dominated IMF and
German capital into a "three body problem" where
Anglo-American/German/Pacific Rim capital would compete for the
East-European market. Given the fact that the Japanese
are drowning into their money (with NEGATIVE interests!) they should be
much more eager on the East-European market than the Germans, who have their
hands full with re-building former East Germany (having cost them already a
staggering DM 300 Billion).

International politics seem to favor Hungary to become a linchpin for
East-European capital market, since Russia is likely to turn fiercely
nationalist extremely soon and will be very unfriendly to the idea of
providing a stepping stone to any of the economic superpowers. Hungary, on
the other hand, is presently wide open to all of them; providing perhaps
the only possibility for establishing a major Anglo-American foothold on
Continental Europe, providing an opportunity to Germany for a new economic
Ostpolitik, and providing an opportunity to Pacific Rim capital to
an economic-financial framework in Hungary that presently is NOT a member
in European Economic Community and thus penetration is unopposed, while
with the likely membership of Hungary, soon, the Pacific Rim infrastructure
could become an extremely valuable built-in mechanism for them in a New
Europe of 21st Century. This unprecedented geopolitical opportunity for
Hungary will become
the undoing of the present SZDSZ-dominated policy, since their extremely
narrowminded subservience to monopolistic IMF relegates Hungary onto the
slippery slope of rapidly becoming an impoverished "Third World" colony.
In contrast, an independent-minded policy for Hungary, that would balance
the three economic superpowers against one-another, holds the realistic
promise of turning this central East-European nation into a spectacular
and geopolitical success, that even Tito's Yugoslavia would pale in comparison

But Hungary has first to rid herself from the thin layer of politicians who,
for their bribe, sustain an IMF-dominance for the moment. With the above
"coalition" clearly signalling a true groundswell, the breakthrough will
likely to be similar to the ease of the Hungarian revolt in 1956, sweeping
Hungary clean of the thin layer of AVO (KGB) traitors, who sustained a Soviet-
monopoly over Hungarian interests at that time. In 1956, however, Hungary
acted faster than the World was ready for -- the international
infrastructure just wasn't there yet to step into the place of a
downfalling Soviet Union. Today, the reverse is true.The World (Europe
certainly) is ready for replacing impotent UN (IMF) dominance, not only in
Bosnia, but also in East-Central Europe, with an open (economic)
competition of superpowers. Hungarians, however, have grown exhausted and
especially their self-confidence as a nation has been systematically

The nation, however, will grow up to the challenge as she always did before.
+ - Re: anti-Semitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Peter I. Hidas wrote:

>Are they wrong for intellectual reasons or because their mother was Jewish?

Having jumped into the discussion in the middle, I can't comment about all
that came earlier.  No one is ever wrong because of ethnic background...nor
are they right because of it.  It seems, however, that any public disagreement
about an issue the Jewish establishment has an opinion on (Anti XDefemation
League, etc) results in those who oppose the Jews asxx being labeled as
anti-semetic.  I disagree with existance of the Jewish settlements in the
West Bank and Gaza, and the taking of land this past summer by the city
of Jerusalem frmo Palestinians.  In many circles that is enough for me to be
labeled as anti-semetic.  Is this reasonable?  I think not.  This is the
objection that I rexx

+ - Re: anti-Semitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>One can certainly criticise a Jew without being anti-Semitic, but a
>how would you take it if somebody suggested that "All those hungarians
>care about is...."

Such a statement about Hungarians, or most others, does not typically
draw at least some critisicm and accusations of anti-Hungarianism, as
regular as an Austrian train schedule.  Such a critisicm about Jews
would draw a downpour  of accusations.  That was the critisicm - constant
denial that the "Jewish" position can be wrong.

One example comes to mind.  PBS had a documentary about the creation of Isreal.
On it, Hentry Kissenger (yes, I know he's Jewish) told a story of negotiation
the US was envolved with between the Palestinians and the Jewss.  At te time
Golda Meyer was te Jewish rep.  After one session of negotiation, the
Palestinians agreed to 9 of 10 demands by the Jews.  When Kissenger brought
this wonderful news to Mrs. Meyer, she turned to an associate and said,
"the Americans have let us down again."  Kissenger told the story as a
funny example of the eventsa of the time, but it is also one drop in an
ocean of such attitudes. "We get everything we want, or you're evil".  This
attitude is what I criticise.

+ - Re: anti-Semitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andrew Szolnoki wrote:

>We should remove all ethnic and other labels from people. There are good
>If I do something bad to you it should have nothing to do with my
>jewishness and the rest of the world's jews should not be blamed for it.

Generally true, but what about when groups people who belong to a group
act together against others?  In the 1960's, many/most whites did discriminate
against blacks, and this has led to blacks as a group gaining some legal
assistance at the expense of whites, even when discrimnination is not
present.  In cases where it is plain to see, I agree with such measures.
For example, in the 3 semiconductor industry companies that I've worked
for, I have never worked with a black engineer (well, that's wrong.
I did work with one once).  Yet, they all hired tons of foreigners.
Isn't there something wrong with that picture?  Also, in New York City,
without or with only few exceptions, the only people who get hired in
the diamond industry are Jews - PBS jsut had a show on hhe industry,
and you couln't miss the pattern -  no blacks, few if any non-Jews.
Isn't there someting wrong with that picture?  This looks like
discrimination to me, but you can bet nothing will or could be
done in NY about this.

Peopl do act in and think as groups - Jews, Hungarians, Italians, etc.

+ - Re: Andrew Szolnoki message (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Darren Purcell wrote:

*****************************> I am Jewish and experienced quite a bit of overt
 and covert anti-semitism
> in Hungary and some in the United States. My childhood experiences have
> strongly effected me for the rest of my life. To me this is very simple.
> We should remove all ethnic and other labels from people. There are good
> people and bad people of all nationalities, races and religions. If I do
> something bad to you it should have nothing to do with my jewishness and
> the rest of the world's jews should not be blamed for it. This is the
> point that most people who hate "groups" sorely missed. Also if I can't
> make it in life it is my fault, not the jew's or the catholic's or the
> white's etc. etc.... whatever the case maybe.

I wish we could, but part of the human psyche needs identification and
until we raise it past the level of nations and states, we will still
hang on to forms of competing identities that will serve as tools for
someone. Perhaps not the majority will use them to discriminate (though
in the good ol' USA, I am beginning to doubt that more and more).

Darren Purcell
Department of Geography
Florida State University

Nothing wrong with groups.  Is there something wrong in your mind that
all of us gather here because we feel a bond to Hungary?  We are entitled
to preserving our group, but not at the expense of others. As long
as we respect other groups, and they respect us and each other, groups
are good, since they act to define our unique originas - I;xx I'm not
Italian, I'm Hungarian!  Nothing wrong woith being Italian, or Indian, or
Chinese, but that aint me!

Paul Gelencser
+ - Re: anti-Semitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Andrew Szolnoki wrote:
>>We should remove all ethnic and other labels from people. There are good
>>If I do something bad to you it should have nothing to do with my
>>jewishness and the rest of the world's jews should not be blamed for it.
>Generally true, but what about when groups people who belong to a group
>act together against others?  In the 1960's, many/most whites did discriminate
>against blacks, and this has led to blacks as a group gaining some legal
>assistance at the expense of whites, even when discrimnination is not
>present.  In cases where it is plain to see, I agree with such measures.
>For example, in the 3 semiconductor industry companies that I've worked
>for, I have never worked with a black engineer (well, that's wrong.
>I did work with one once).  Yet, they all hired tons of foreigners.
>Isn't there something wrong with that picture?  Also, in New York City,
>without or with only few exceptions, the only people who get hired in
>the diamond industry are Jews - PBS jsut had a show on hhe industry,
>and you couln't miss the pattern -  no blacks, few if any non-Jews.
>Isn't there someting wrong with that picture?  This looks like
>discrimination to me, but you can bet nothing will or could be
>done in NY about this.
>Peopl do act in and think as groups - Jews, Hungarians, Italians, etc.

Your message is racist without you realizing it. People do not act as a
group - most of the time. One could say that there are too many
Afro-American playing basketball. Too few Jews. Discrimination! Or are
there (at least used to be) too many Hungarians in Holywood.
Discrimination! Should the diamond industry hire you if you are not a
specialist just because there are too few Hungarians in the industry?

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

+ - Seeking to contact Dr Kopits Istvan (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I would like to contact Dr. Kopits Istvan of U.S.A. (New York area?).
Does anyone has the address or phone number?
Thank you for your help!