In article >,
 wrote:

> I used to live in HUNGARY, and now I want to return the favor:
> HERE is how to make a LOT of money ONLINE>>>let's be penpals....
> 
> On-line Success Strategies
> Learn How to Sign Up Sixty Active People Each Month!
> 
> Exciting FREE REPORT reveals details of how you can receive the
> acclaimed "Secrets of Electronic Marketing"-- a sixty-page "how-to"
> manual, absolutely FREE.  Learn the systemme created by on-line
> networking pioneers:  Kempf, Schroeder, Salvato, and Mitchell...
> to SUPER-CHARGE your organization's growth and PROFITS!
> 
> Send your request for this FREE REPORT-- include the words
> "CYBERTECH" in your request-- to:

It disgusts me that you would even consider telling this lie to deceive my
people.

Please get your garbage off this newsgroup immediately!!! And Hungary does
not need people like you whatsoever!! 

GET LOST!!!

Steve Mihaly

Anthony Malczanek wrote:
>For more than seventy-five years the ethnic Hungarian community in
>Romania has been threated by elimination, being subjected to various
ways
>of aggressive assimilation by the different Romanian governments.

Check your facts, sir.
Do you know how many Hungarians were living in Romania, and how many
Romanians were living in Hungary, immediately after the Trianon treaty ?
Compare the figures with the current ones.
There are probably more Hungarians in Romania now, while the Romanians
(as well as other minorities in Hungary) HAVE been forcibly assimilated.
Only in the last few years, Hungary has been trying to show a better 
face towards minorities, after there is almost nobody left.
The only Romanian high school in Hungary, as far as I know, is the one
from Gyula. The principal there, a Romanian, admits that his own child
does not know to speak Romanian.
Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak Hungarian!

So, who is assimilating who?

I'm interested in finding a Hungarian group, or an informal group of
Hungarians, in Austin, Tx.  I just moved to the area from NJ, and was
hoping to continue learning the language with some help.  Also, are
there any cultural/social Hungarian groups in the area?

Thanks,

	Paul Gelencser

>Anthony Malczanek wrote:
>>For more than seventy-five years the ethnic Hungarian community in
>>Romania has been threated by elimination, being subjected to various
>ways
>>of aggressive assimilation by the different Romanian governments.
>
>Check your facts, sir.
>Do you know how many Hungarians were living in Romania, and how many
>Romanians were living in Hungary, immediately after the Trianon treaty ?
>... The principal there, a Romanian, admits that his own child does not know
>to speak Romanian. Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak
>Hungarian!
>
>So, who is assimilating who?
>
 Be serious! Hungarian in Romania speak Hungarian because they never
accepted Romanian attempt to be aggressively assimilated. They were
Hungarians for many centuries living in Erdely (Transylvania) which was
Hungary for many centuries.

If the Romanian principal's son does not speak Romanian it is his own
foult! Who else do you expect to speak with him Romanian in a Hungarian
environment?

I wish you guys would stop this wishful thinking that Hungarians were the
minority before Trianon, the biggest mistake the Western powers ever did.
Hungary with Erdely was a natural defense against Eastern invadors for
centuries and would have stopped the Nazis and the Communists in WWII.

HIX BULI:
---------
          mar tobb, mint 50-en jelentkeztek!

          hol/mikor  : oktober 6-7-8 (Szeged), szallas megoldhato (800 Ft)
          bovebben   : finger 

          jelentkezes: a > cimen

          szervezok  : Magdi (vmagdi@) es Aniko (berko@)

Jozsi. /HIX/

> From:  (Dan Pop)
 
 .culture.romanian:20709
> 
> In >
 (Adrian Precup-Pop) writes:
> 
> >  REGARDING           Re: SCM: RE: Flag ban law passed
> 
> >Tom Angi wrote:
> 
> >>The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the
theory of
> >>Daco-Rumanian continuity.
> 
> >You do not have to advocate a spelling, you just have to look it up in
a
> >dictionary or use a spell checker.
> 
> Did you follow your own advice?  The Webster lists three different
> spellings: Rumania, Roumania and Romania, but the last two are
simply
> pointers to the first, which seems to be the preferred spelling in
> English (both British and American).

Not anymore.  Read the newspapapers published in the US, like New
York Times, etc. and you'll find ROMANIA.
It is true that Rumania was used for example in American newspapers
before 1950-60, but things have changed.

> This is consistent with the German (Rumaenien) and French
(Roumanie) spelling

Or Spanish and Italian : Rumania.  But that is mostly not to confuse it
with Roma, the capital of Italy (I guess!?).
Are we writing here in anything but English ?

> Other languages are free to ignore our own ideas about the
> right spelling of our country name, the same way we do with the
> Romanian names of other countries: Anglia (England), Finlanda
(Suomi),
> Germania (Deutschland), etc.

Nobody doubts that, except that many Hungarians are purposely using
Rumania and Rumanian to irritate us or to emphasize their dislike of the
connection : Romania -- Rome -- Daco-Roman- Romanian continuity
theory.  
They are missing one point, and that is the Language Romanian, no
matter if  Daco-Romanian continuity is valid or not, is coming from
ROME, not from MARS.

This repeat conversation is so silly indeed !!

> 
> Dan
 

Adrian (from Hadrian) C.

Tamas:

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.

Not sure how I will write to the mayor of Vecs seeing as I 
can not write Hungarian...but who knows,...maybe they will 
understand English.

Thanks also for the meaning of the names that I posted.  I 
was not aware that Kudelka was Czech.

Al in Cleveland

> From:  (Gyorgy Kovacs)
 
> In article >,
> Adrian Precup-Pop > wrote:
> >  REGARDING           Re: SCM: RE: Flag ban law passed
> 
> >Tom Angi wrote:
 
> >>The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the
theory of
> >>Daco-Rumanian continuity.
> >You do not have to advocate a spelling, you just have to look it up in
a
> >dictionary or use a spell checker.
> >Did you ever read the newsgroup title??
> 
> So the sentence should read: The spelling "Rumania" is perfectly
correct
> referring to the country that lies South-East of Transylvania.

You guys are really hung up on it aren't you ?
A more realistic description would be :

Frankenstadt or Draculasvar or even Tg. Mamaliga,
where Count Chocola met Dr. Frankenwiener
to get his fangs a new crown !
And so on, went the Grimm brothers with their fairy tails ... pony and
all.

> My spell checker always accepts Rumania, but not Romania. Strange
huh?
> 
> Gyuri

"Romania" seems to be OK according to:
WordPerfect Speller
OIKO-2.0/Spell Finder
Version 1.4

Your speller is probably :
PaprikaPerfect Speller
Gulyas-2.3/Szekler Finder
Version 123.89
Made in Hungary (no doubt)

You guys make the "Children of the Night" more real every day !

Hadrian

In article >,
 > wrote:
>> From:  (Gyorgy Kovacs)
>> Adrian Precup-Pop > wrote:
>> >  REGARDING           Re: SCM: RE: Flag ban law passed
>>
>> >Tom Angi wrote:
>> >theory of Daco-Rumanian continuity.
>You guys are really hung up on it aren't you ?
>A more realistic description would be :
>
>Frankenstadt or Draculasvar or even Tg. Mamaliga,
>where Count Chocola met Dr. Frankenwiener
>to get his fangs a new crown !
>And so on, went the Grimm brothers with their fairy tails ... pony and
>all.
>Your speller is probably :
>PaprikaPerfect Speller
>Gulyas-2.3/Szekler Finder
>Version 123.89
>Made in Hungary (no doubt)
>
>You guys make the "Children of the Night" more real every day !

Guys, guys, guys.
This thread indeed is getting very Dimaesque. Of course, you can
post what you want, but if you have so much time on your hands, why not check 
out the web-site of Penthouse magazine? It's a bit more fun. (Pretty 
spiffy...!)
(Or we can ask Mr. Cris Tomescu or Mr. (H)Adrian Cosoroa to inform us of the
heated nightlife of the SF bay area.)

Gabor

RE:
   From:  (Janos Szamosfalvi) On: 09/27/95  01:57
Subject: SCM: Rumanian vs. Romanian ( was: Re: Re- SCM- RE
Reply-To: 

Adrian Precup-Pop ) wrote:

: _"Rumania"_ should be _"Romania"_
: Simple, isn't it?

: >The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the theory of
: >Daco-Rumanian continuity.: You do not have to advocate a spelling, you just 
h

: dictionary or use a spell checker.
: Did you ever read the newsgroup title??

An almost verbatim quote from Webster's New World Dictionary
of the American Language:

Rumania  [...]  same as Romania  - Rumanian adj., n.

I omitted the pronunciation guide (I put "[...]" there) and the center
dots showing syllabification.

My only comment is that while Rumanians have the power to call themselves
anything they wish, I don't think they can change American English, even
if it's just a couple of entries.

> --------------------------------------------

Here! Here!

my thoughts on the scholarship are that there ought to be some
sort of fund to help our own. iam a hungarian american, even
have been a hung. scout and folk dancer. I have not heard of
anything that may be of assistance at the present, but i have an
idea of the marketing variety. Im starting out an office supply company
with 10% of profits for just such a cause. If others who see this response wish
to cal re: prices on 1000s of items, i'll be happy to accomodate.
i'd also like input to the structure of the award process and qualifications.
in the mean time you might want to check with Kalman Magyar
of the Hungarian folklore Centrum in teaneck, n.j. He might
be able to suggest other leads. look in your large bookstores for
books in the career/college sections for various $ leads for students
of all backgrounds. try the web browser for "hungarian" to
find a website KMCSSZ which is worldwide in scope and seems to
be very far reaching. besst wishes, by the way what and where are
you studying?

> From:  (Dan Pop)
 
 .culture.romanian:20709
> 
> In >
 (Adrian Precup-Pop) writes:
> 
> >  REGARDING           Re: SCM: RE: Flag ban law passed
> 
> >Tom Angi wrote:
> 
> >>The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the
theory of
> >>Daco-Rumanian continuity.
> 
> >You do not have to advocate a spelling, you just have to look it up in
a
> >dictionary or use a spell checker.
> 
> Did you follow your own advice?  The Webster lists three different
> spellings: Rumania, Roumania and Romania, but the last two are
simply
> pointers to the first, which seems to be the preferred spelling in
> English (both British and American).

Not anymore.  Read the newspapapers published in the US, like New
York Times, etc. and you'll find ROMANIA.
It is true that Rumania was used for example in American newspapers
before 1950-60, but things have changed.

> This is consistent with the German (Rumaenien) and French
(Roumanie) spelling

Or Spanish and Italian : Rumania.  But that is mostly not to confuse it
with Roma, the capital of Italy (I guess!?).
Are we writing here in anything but English ?

> Other languages are free to ignore our own ideas about the
> right spelling of our country name, the same way we do with the
> Romanian names of other countries: Anglia (England), Finlanda
(Suomi),
> Germania (Deutschland), etc.

Nobody doubts that, except that many Hungarians are purposely using
Rumania and Rumanian to irritate us or to emphasize their dislike of the
connection : Romania -- Rome -- Daco-Roman- Romanian continuity
theory.  
They are missing one point, and that is the Language Romanian, no
matter if  Daco-Romanian continuity is valid or not, is coming from
ROME, not from MARS.

This repeat conversation is so silly indeed !!

> 
> Dan
 

Adrian (from Hadrian) C.

In article > Adrian Precup-Pop,
 writes:
>Only in the last few years, Hungary has been trying to show a better 
>face towards minorities, after there is almost nobody left.

Well, I live (in Hungary)  in a mixed village (German + Hungarian).
The German was always keen to learn their mother language (as a
matter of fact they are learning high german now, the dialect is
spoken only by the olds). I had ethnic German classmates in high
school. They fought with their third or fourth language when we
Hungarians tried to learn our first foreign lang. (I don't count
Russian)

And, by the way, my cousin speaks Slovak fluently.

>The only Romanian high school in Hungary, as far as I know, is the one
>from Gyula. The principal there, a Romanian, admits that his own child
>does not know to speak Romanian.

AFAIK, the Romanian minority is very small (30,000) in Hungary. They
have a large high school, but there is not enough student who want to
learn in Romanian. The parents think it is not important to teach the
language, when they are young kids, and in high school its a little bit
too late.
I think such a small community can only keep the mother language
with big difficulties, only if they took active steps for it. Otherwise
they will be assimilated.

>Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak Hun-
>garian !

You might be surpised but there are Hungarians overthere who don't
speak Hungarian and there are Romanians whose mother language
are Hungarian. Funny, isn't it ?

Tamas

On Wed, 13 Sep 1995, Joseph Veres wrote:

> The Magyar Vilagkongresszus will be held again this year in Cleveland, Ohio
> from November 23-26, 1995. This four day event will consist of programs
> pertaining to Hungarian culture, history, as well as select technical and
> medical topics. As in the past, there will be a formal dinner/ ball on
> Saturday evening (Nov. 25).
> 
> If you would like more information, I can send you the detailed program
> listing the events.
> 
> Joe Veres 

Joe Veres has sent me the program in Hungarian. I have deposited it at 
the following URL:

http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/News/Current_Events/

Gotthard
--
mailto:
http://mineral.umd.edu/~gotthard/

I'm interested in finding a Hungarian group, or an informal group of
Hungarians, in Austin, Tx.  I just moved to the area from NJ, and was
hoping to continue learning the language with some help.  Also, are
there any cultural/social Hungarian groups in the area?

Thanks,

	Paul Gelencser

In >  writes:

>> From:  (Dan Pop)
> 
>> Did you follow your own advice?  The Webster lists three different
>> spellings: Rumania, Roumania and Romania, but the last two are
>simply
>> pointers to the first, which seems to be the preferred spelling in
>> English (both British and American).
>
>Not anymore.  Read the newspapapers published in the US, like New
>York Times, etc. and you'll find ROMANIA.
>It is true that Rumania was used for example in American newspapers
>before 1950-60, but things have changed.

When exactly have they changed?  My Webster was printed in 1989.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

> From:  (Gyorgy Kovacs)
 
> In article >,
> Adrian Precup-Pop > wrote:
> >  REGARDING           Re: SCM: RE: Flag ban law passed
> 
> >Tom Angi wrote:
 
> >>The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the
theory of
> >>Daco-Rumanian continuity.
> >You do not have to advocate a spelling, you just have to look it up in
a
> >dictionary or use a spell checker.
> >Did you ever read the newsgroup title??
> 
> So the sentence should read: The spelling "Rumania" is perfectly
correct
> referring to the country that lies South-East of Transylvania.

You guys are really hung up on it aren't you ?
A more realistic description would be :

Frankenstadt or Draculasvar or even Tg. Mamaliga,
where Count Chocola met Dr. Frankenwiener
to get his fangs a new crown !
And so on, went the Grimm brothers with their fairy tails ... pony and
all.

> My spell checker always accepts Rumania, but not Romania. Strange
huh?
> 
> Gyuri

"Romania" seems to be OK according to:
WordPerfect Speller
OIKO-2.0/Spell Finder
Version 1.4

Your speller is probably :
PaprikaPerfect Speller
Gulyas-2.3/Szekler Finder
Version 123.89
Made in Hungary (no doubt)

You guys make the "Children of the Night" more real every day !

Hadrian

I've been asked to find a drinking toast in Magyar.  What can
you suggest?  I suppose what is being sought is the equivalent
of "Cheers" or "Skoal." 

Thanks.

-- 
---------------------------|------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Holt            | As experience teaches, the subconscious almost
Richmond, Virginia         | automatically weighs the odds.
U.S.A.                     |       -- Adm E. B. Fluckey
---------------------------|-------------------------------------------------

> From:  (Gabor Barsai)
 
> Organization: The Ohio State University
> 
> 
> In article >,
>  > wrote:
 
 ........
> >You guys make the "Children of the Night" more real every day !
> 
> Guys, guys, guys.
> This thread indeed is getting very Dimaesque. Of course, you can
> post what you want, but if you have so much time on your hands,
why not check
> out the web-site of Penthouse magazine? It's a bit more fun. (Pretty
> spiffy...!)

I got a better one that you can set up on your Netscape to come up every
day with a new bikini girl:

http://www.webcom.com/~assist/babes.html

Check it out !

> (Or we can ask Mr. Cris Tomescu or Mr. (H)Adrian Cosoroa to inform
us of the
> heated nightlife of the SF bay area.)

 Not as heated as Acapulco  or the Greek Isles !

> Gabor

(H)Adrian

In article > ,  writes:
>I've been asked to find a drinking toast in Magyar.  What can
>you suggest?  I suppose what is being sought is the equivalent
>of "Cheers" or "Skoal."

csirió !
isten-isten !
egészségünkre !
proszit !
igyunk, hogy legyen hugyunk !

Tamás

>Anthony Malczanek wrote:
>>For more than seventy-five years the ethnic Hungarian community in
>>Romania has been threated by elimination, being subjected to various
>ways
>>of aggressive assimilation by the different Romanian governments.
>
>Check your facts, sir.
>Do you know how many Hungarians were living in Romania, and how many
>Romanians were living in Hungary, immediately after the Trianon treaty ?
>... The principal there, a Romanian, admits that his own child does not know
>to speak Romanian. Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak
>Hungarian!
>
>So, who is assimilating who?
>
 Be serious! Hungarian in Romania speak Hungarian because they never
accepted Romanian attempt to be aggressively assimilated. They were
Hungarians for many centuries living in Erdely (Transylvania) which was
Hungary for many centuries.

If the Romanian principal's son does not speak Romanian it is his own
foult! Who else do you expect to speak with him Romanian in a Hungarian
environment?

I wish you guys would stop this wishful thinking that Hungarians were the
minority before Trianon, the biggest mistake the Western powers ever did.
Hungary with Erdely was a natural defense against Eastern invadors for
centuries and would have stopped the Nazis and the Communists in WWII.

+
In article >,
 > wrote:
>
>You guys are really hung up on it aren't you ?
>A more realistic description would be :
>
>Frankenstadt or Draculasvar or even Tg. Mamaliga,
>etc... And so on, went the Grimm brothers with their fairy tails ... pony and
>all.
>
>"Romania" seems to be OK according to: WordPerfect Speller OIKO-2.0/Spell 
Finder Version 1.4
>
>Your speller is probably :
>PaprikaPerfect Speller Gulyas-2.3/Szekler Finder Version 123.89
>Made in Hungary (no doubt)
>You guys make the "Children of the Night" more real every day !
>Hadrian
-------------------
Let me attempt to be serious for a moment: I really appreciate Hadrian's
approach, who was the only one so far to notice the JOKE! Instead of being
vulgar like Adrian (see on SCM) he was intelligent and FUNNY! Thank you
Hadrian, and I mean it!
Hungary is innocent in my spell-checker business, I customized it myself.
If we choose to bug each other, lets do it in a civilized manner! Thanks in 
advance!
Regards:   Gyuri

Anthony Malczanek wrote:
>For more than seventy-five years the ethnic Hungarian community in
>Romania has been threated by elimination, being subjected to various
ways
>of aggressive assimilation by the different Romanian governments.

Check your facts, sir.
Do you know how many Hungarians were living in Romania, and how many
Romanians were living in Hungary, immediately after the Trianon treaty ?
Compare the figures with the current ones.
There are probably more Hungarians in Romania now, while the Romanians
(as well as other minorities in Hungary) HAVE been forcibly assimilated.
Only in the last few years, Hungary has been trying to show a better 
face towards minorities, after there is almost nobody left.
The only Romanian high school in Hungary, as far as I know, is the one
from Gyula. The principal there, a Romanian, admits that his own child
does not know to speak Romanian.
Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak Hungarian!

So, who is assimilating who?

>> The spelling "Rumania" is prefectly correct in refering to the country
>>that lies to East of Hungary!
>> 
>> The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the theory
>>of Daco-Rumanian continuity.
> 
> In that case as I expected only Hungary does not accept this theory.
>Check out some recent American dictionaries.
>I am afraid you guys don't have much leverage.

Why not ask the native how they want the name of the country to
be spelled?
-- 
---------------------------|------------------------------------------------
Michael B. Holt            | As experience teaches, the subconscious almost
Richmond, Virginia         | automatically weighs the odds.
U.S.A.                     |       -- Adm E. B. Fluckey
---------------------------|-------------------------------------------------

In article >,
Adrian Precup-Pop > wrote:
>Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak Hungarian!

Well, AFAIK, Laszlo Veress, who was the top communist in Harghita (or was in 
Covasna?) couldn't utter a word in Hungarian (this was in the good old days, 
prior to 1989).

>So, who is assimilating who?

Gabor

: > The spelling "Rumania" is prefectly correct in refering to the country
: that
: > lies to East of Hungary!
: > 
: > The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the theory
: of
: > Daco-Rumanian continuity.
:  
  Wrong in most cases countrys refer to a country by its offical name.  
Romania is the offical english.  Rumania is hopeful thinking by 
those historical denial.

I made a mistake, tsk, tsk on me:

In article >,
Gabor Barsai > wrote:
>
>
>In article >,
>Adrian Precup-Pop > wrote:
>>Show me one Hungarian in Romania who does not know to speak Hungarian!
>
>Well, AFAIK, Laszlo Veress, who was the top communist in Harghita (or was in
>Covasna?) couldn't utter a word in Hungarian (this was in the good old days,
>prior to 1989).
>
>>So, who is assimilating who?
>
>Gabor

Laszlo Fazekas was in charge, not Laszlo Veress. AFAIK, Mr. Fazekas was put in
charge due to his Hungarian name, but was more loyal to the genius of
Carpathians then to his own people.

I was thinking of the Romanian (Rumanian? Roumanian?) ambassador at that time
to Hungary, who was Nicolae Veress, as I remember. He couldn't speak Hungarian
either.

Gabor

Adrian Precup-Pop ) wrote:
: Janos Szamosfalvi wrote:
: >My only comment is that while Rumanians have the power to call
: themselves
: >antything they wish, I don't think they can change American English

: I am quoting from The Oxford Dictionary of Current English,
: Oxford University Press, 1992:
: Romanian 1. of Romania
:          2. native or language of Romania
: Rumanian var. of Romanian.
:          ---

: I did not know that there is a language called American English.

Ever heard of dialects?

: FYI, check an English list of countries in the United Nations.
: Did you watch the football/soccer World Cup 1994 in USA?
: There was a country playing in Group 1, and winning it, called Romania,
: not Rumania, by the English speaking and writing commentators. 
: Try also the list of USA embassies and check the correct spelling.
: Again, check the newsgroup title.
: Do you want quotes from English language newspapers?

I just to want to make sure that you understood my previous post:
I didn't say, nor implied that Romania is incorrect -- I only said
that Rumania is also an acceptable word.   If you don't like it 
you can write a petition to the publisher about the removal of 
Rumania:

New World Dictionaries  
850 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44114

As far as I'm concerned, the case is closed.

RE:
   From:  (Janos Szamosfalvi) On: 09/27/95  01:57
Subject: SCM: Rumanian vs. Romanian ( was: Re: Re- SCM- RE
Reply-To: 

Adrian Precup-Pop ) wrote:

: _"Rumania"_ should be _"Romania"_
: Simple, isn't it?

: >The spelling "Romania" is advocated by those who accept the theory of
: >Daco-Rumanian continuity.: You do not have to advocate a spelling, you just 
h

: dictionary or use a spell checker.
: Did you ever read the newsgroup title??

An almost verbatim quote from Webster's New World Dictionary
of the American Language:

Rumania  [...]  same as Romania  - Rumanian adj., n.

I omitted the pronunciation guide (I put "[...]" there) and the center
dots showing syllabification.

My only comment is that while Rumanians have the power to call themselves
anything they wish, I don't think they can change American English, even
if it's just a couple of entries.

> --------------------------------------------

Here! Here!