Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: A few numbers concerning HungarHotels' sale (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L (mind)  46 sor     (cikkei)
3 Cybernazism (Was About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Heidegger and Hungary Part 3 (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Hungarian Picnic - Washington, DC 05/10/1996 (mind)  14 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: An opinion from Hungary (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Gutter language (mind)  23 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: * Mr. Frajkor, School of Journalism, Carleton Univ. (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
10 The Philosophy Sweepstakes (mind)  56 sor     (cikkei)
11 I'm back! (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
12 Re: To agent "Lup". (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: Friends. (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: Marina,Marina. (mind)  26 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: The Bloody Footprints of the Commissar (2) (mind)  16 sor     (cikkei)
16 Newworld editorial/Soros (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
17 Funar (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Newworld editorial/Soros (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
19 The Pope In Hungary (mind)  131 sor     (cikkei)
20 HungarHotels + freedom of speach (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: The Pope In Hungary (mind)  42 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
23 Re: Friends. (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: Gutter language (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: A few numbers concerning HungarHotels' sale (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Balogh wrote:

>         About a week ago there was news on the hotel front: there is a new
> buyer and the price is higher than it was a year and a half ago. Well,
> yesterday's *Vilaggazdasag,* a very good daily economic paper, explained the
> real story. Because of the different exchange rates (today the forint is
> worth less than then), because of different interest rates, and because of
> the size of the share, the actual amount of money received for the hotel
> chain is 52% less than it would have been in December 1994!!
>         Obviously other papers also commented on these figures and today's
> the spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office felt the need to explain the
> *real sitaution*: in fact, the Vilaggazdasag's assessment is inaccurate, the
> decision not to sell was an excellent decision. And here it is why:
> [In brief: the decision to stop the privatization of HungaryHotels was the
> right decision because last year one would have been able to receive only an
> income of 3.8 billion forints, while the hotel chain's sale now resulted in
> 15.6 billion forints.]
>         Anyone who can understand this and can explain it to me will have my
> admiration and gratitude.

The crunch will come when the Forum Hotel will be sold.

I recall that the unsuccessful US bidders said something to the effect that
only the Forum was worth anything, the rest was useless and they only offered
to buy them because they were part of the package.  Given this, perhaps
somewhat self-serving, opinion it may well be better that those hotels have
been sold off completely, not only 51% of them as in the original deal, and
even if at a lower price considering currency movements.

Selling only 51% would have left the Hungarian government outvoted in board
decisions while still having to foot nearly half of any future bills.

If the Hungarian government can sell the Forum at a decent price, the total
revenue may exceed that promised in the  rejected offer, and it also allows
the government to quit the hotel business.

George Antony
+ - Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of Slovak-L (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Aug 30, 1996 13:39:17 in article <Re: Mr. Frajkor, listowner of
Slovak-L>,  (Kristina Szurek)' wrote:


>An EFFECTIVE way to deal with ATTENTION SEEKERS is to IGNORE them. It is
>sometimes hard to pass by a posting in this group that insults me to the
>but remember, the author is SICK.  Unfortunately, it is not possible to
>someone's head, or smash a beer bottle on it as someone suggested;

In other words, if anybody does not agree with Ms. Szurek political views,
( preferably on
Slovakia) then that person is "SICK".  She wishes she could "shake
someone's head,
or  smash a beer bottle on it as someone suggested" as part of her therapy.
for her a tool like that is not (yet) available through Internet.

But don't worry friends, if somebody would get hit on the head anyway, Ms.
Szurek can
help.   In her advertisement in - alt.education.disabled newsgroup, on June
25, 1996
Ms. Szurek stated: (please note the last words of the quote)

   "Hi, I have just graduated from York University with the Bachelor degree
(BA) in
Psychology.  I also have a Rehabilitation Certificate from Seneca College.
I live in
Toronto, Ontario...
My experience includes working with physically and mentally challenged
children and
adults, persons with developmental or learning disabilities, or head

Paul Zapletal
+ - Cybernazism (Was About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear "HUNGARY" Readers,

I haven't been able to follow the wise discourse on this list lately.  My
very presence in Cyberheaven/hell is becoming doubtful and my attention is
occupied with the practicalities, (so to speak). I've merely looked in from
time to time at the usual fun.

Before I leave youall, for however long it may be, I'd like you to
consider, in view of the recent demise of our own "nazi"-s, how, on the one
hand, we can rejoice how much more polite we Hungarians (nazis or the
opposite) are, and on the other hand, sorrow and fear about how much more
effective the Slovak nazis appear to be.

Bye for now,

Tibor Benke
(my address is iffy right now, but it's still  for the time being)
+ - Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >
Peter Hakel > writes:
>From: Peter Hakel >
>Subject: Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks
>Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 11:18:34 -0700

>On 1 Sep 1996, Michael Hajovsky wrote:

>> If you want to take up a crusade, work for the passage of something
>> resembling the first amendment into the Slovak constitution. God knows
>> they could use it.

>The freedom of speech (sloboda prejavu) is included in the Slovak

Good point - I think that Germany is much more democratic than Slovakia (it
would be joke to call Slovakia democratic) and freedom of expression is
included in German constitution, too. But promotion of nazi or fascist
ideology is still illegal there - and Mein Kampf is not on bestseller list.


 >Peter Hakel
+ - Re: Heidegger and Hungary Part 3 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, Ferenc Novak
> writes:

>Now, why does this "career advice" look so familiar to me?  Is it only my
>imagination, or have the letters NPA suddenly, mysteriously flash in my
>Maybe Sam can explain...

Did NPA write the same thing to him? Perhaps, then, Zoltan had better pay
attention. If his comments about Americans, homosexuals and Jews weren't
controversial and repugnant to most of his co-workers, he wouldn't have
any problem sharing those views with the people he works with, would he?
You, of course, didn't think about that before posting the above, did you?
You've helped prove my point about Zoltan and I thank you. Too bad AOL
doesn't allow screen names longer than eight characters. Yours would more
aptly be "NAbility2Nfer." Thanks for taking me out of your kill file. It's
always a pleasure to assist you in making a public fool out of yourself.
Not difficult, mind you, but pleasant.
Sam Stowe

"I only use my gun
Whenever kindness fails..."
-- Robert Earl Keen
+ - Re: Hungarian Picnic - Washington, DC 05/10/1996 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sorry, can't make what sounds like a great picnic--but I'm glad you
spelled out the date in your message.  I couldn't help thinking, why tell
us now about something that happened last May?

I once heard of an American soldier during WWII who fell in love with a
European girl (I forget which country).  When he got back home, he wrote
her: "Meet me at such and such church on 11/12 and we'll be married."  He
showed up on Nov. 12 and she wasn't there, so he went home.  She showed up
on Dec. 11 and wound up deserted at the altar.

So be careful, unless you don't want anyone to come!

Have a great time,
+ - Re: An opinion from Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Thanks for the input on the fact that communism was overthrown in Hungary
for economic rather than political reasons.  I kind of figured that, and
should have made clearer that when I said Hungarians longed for freedom,
it was (like most people) in order to better their lives materially.  As
more than one person has said, freedom doesn't mean much if you're hungry
all the time.

I also understand how hard it would be for most Hungarians to know what to
do with "freedom" (in the political sense) since they've had no experience
of it.  When I read of the reasons people were executed under different
regimes--reasons which, in America, would not even be misdemeanors!

The Humanism I'd like for Hungary is simply the golden rule.  I don't
think you need great proficiency in political freedom to understand and
appreciate that.  It's not a matter of spiritual goodness anymore--it's an
economic necessity, both for Hungary and the rest of the world.

+ - Re: Gutter language (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Regarding the question of how is a "prolonged" discussion on homosexuals
relevant to the Hungary board, I can think of lots of ways.  Here's just

1)  Freedom - Now that Hungary's getting its first taste of it
(supposedly, anyway) in ages (if ever), homosexuals can serve as a great
reference point for discussing what "freedom" really means.  Does it mean
freedom to be a Catholic (now there's an oxymoron).  Or freedom to be a
nationalist (another oxymoron).  How about freedom to be who you really
are?  You don't have to agree that homosexuals should be treated just like
anyone else, but if you're going to cry "Freedom for Hungary," you simply
can't ignore us.  Truly, we force you to say what you *really* mean.

2) The Economy - Homosexuals are known for being more creative than the
average Jozsi.  We've had to be.  Now, if the Hungarian economy is to
improve and even grow strong, it needs all the creativity it can get.  A
lot of countries can offer the same stuff on the open market that a lot of
other countries offer.  I'm afraid the worldwide demand for paprika won't
make a big difference.  If I were Hungary, I would cultivate my
homosexuals.  Who knows what they could offer the world market in music,
fashion, the media, etc., etc.

+ - Re: * Mr. Frajkor, School of Journalism, Carleton Univ. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Roman Kanala > wrote:

>Some information that might be of interest to whom it may concern:

[much personal stuff about J.G. Frajkor deleted]

Roman, you're now going way beyond defending your own reputation and
embarking on something close to a vendetta. Just remember that people
who insist on throwing mud at others, usually end up with dirty hands.
Let it go already ...

>Just thought this information might be of interest to the Internet

No, not at this end.  Why don't you just drop it?

Karl Pollak
Richmond, British Columbia
+ - The Philosophy Sweepstakes (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tibor Benke, commenting on Lukacs's adventures as a political officer in
the Hungarian Red Army of 1919, writes:

> Now for my question.  I don't reckon, despite what Eva Balogh may think,
> that it can be rationally decided which philosopher is more important.
> What one may guess, depends on which balcony of the Tower of Babel,
> (which academic discipline) one is approaching the question from.  But
> I wonder which was more authentic?  It seems to me that Lukacs is ahead
> in this respect, and that Heidegger would be closer or even equal to him,
> if he had acted on his National Socialist sympathies.  Comments?

It seems that, by Tibor's reckoning, "authenticity" is in some way a function
of one's willingness to act on one's beliefs.  In what sense does that make
Lukacs "more authentic" than Heidegger?

In terms of acting on one's beliefs, the two men have a great deal in common.
Heidegger held on to his Nazi party card till 1945.  Lukacs remained a Party
member till the end of his life (aside from a brief interlude between 1956
and 1967).  Heidegger, as rector of Freiburg University, has loyally managed
the transformation of that university into a Judenfrei institution.  Lukacs
has been just as loyal to his masters when led the ideological cleansing of
Hungarian arts in the late 40s and early 50s, destroying a number of
"bourgeois" and "reactionary" writers in the process.  There is only one
tiny thing Lukacs has on Heidegger: the latter, it seems, has not caused
anyone to be killed.  Lukacs, on the other hand, as head of a military
tribunal in 1919, has ordered the execution of 8 army soldiers for cowardice
on the battlefield.  (He also had some army cooks shot for theft.)

What would Heidegger have to do to catch up with Lukacs in the authenticity
sweepstakes?  Should he have volunteered as a guard in a concentration camp?
What is Tibor's point here? Given two philosophers who both signed on to
a murderous ideology, the one that was actually willing to get blood on his
hands is automatically "more authentic" ?  Or am I misunderstanding
something?  By this standard, Lukacs is indeed more authentic than
Heidegger; but then of course Charlie Manson is more authentic than
either of them.

If we use "authenticity" in the sense of being the genuine article, the
real McCoy, then Lukacs has been an authentic philosopher one day, and an
authentic scoundrel the next.  His transformation from a Heidelberg aesthete
into a Communist revolutionary was an authentic act, comparable to a
religious conversion.  It was a desperate reaction to the unspeakable
butchery of WWI.  In the eyes of Lukacs, it was evidence that he was
living in "an era of unredeemable sinfulness" (to use one of his favorite
quotes from Fichte).  Another favorite quote of his was from Hebbel's
Judith: "If God has ordained sin to stand in the way between me and my deed,
that who am I to protest?  Can I refuse to carry out His command?"  Once
he accepted the possibility that an act may be unethical but "historically
correct", he never turned back to reexamine his assumptions, even during the
Stalinist purges in Moscow (when he was twice arrested), or during his
Romanian internment with Imre Nagy in 1956-57.  And inasmuch as he stopped
reexamining his assumptions, he ceased to be an authentic philosopher.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - I'm back! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

...and fully operational. Well, nearly.
I was away for 5 weeks! 4 weeks in Hungary, just with
Martin (11 GCSEs, 3 A*, 7A and 1B... and everyone asks
what is the B for...)  and 5 days in Edinburgh  all 4
of us.

The heating mantle is 4 x A4 length + 2cms, sorry, I
cannot find a measuring tape in this mess, I was pleased,
that I managed to locate the mantle...

Yes, there is quite a fiasko here with Derek Priest and
pr Kropholler leaving, pr Roberts going part time, etc.

I've just inspected C floor, the extension has it's floor
the new lab is nearly ready, the air-condition seems to be
in place in C3...  Lots of work to be done from now to
make itall operational again...

Keep in touch, I will probably moan to you and ask for
help as pewr usual... Judy has just rung, she is tearful again.

Love/best wishes     Eva
+ - Re: To agent "Lup". (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 10:57 PM 8/31/96 -0400, Aniko wrote in connection with Arpi Rambo's posting:

>When I see this type of shit on the net, the only thing that comes to mind
>is that some degree of maturity is obviously lacking.

        Rambo is specializing in shit.

>What is this crapola, of Agent Lup anyhow?  Am I the only one sitting in the
>Please enlighten - Aniko.

        Aniko, Lup = Woolf = Farkas. This idiot thinks that Marina is Gabor
Farkas. I don't know whether you took Latin or not but in Latin lupus =
farkas (woolf). Hence the Romanian and don't forget that Gabor comes from

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Friends. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 12:34 PM 8/31/96 EDT, "The Rambo Arpi." wrote:

>With friends like you,and your kind,who the hell needs enemies?By the
>way,why don't you mind your own business?

Hey, Rambo sweetie.  Tell me what you mean by "my kind", and I'll tell you
about "your kind".  OK?  Is it a deal, sweetie?

Joe Szalai
+ - Re: Marina,Marina. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 07:08 PM 9/1/96 -0400, Andy Kozma wrote:
>>In article >, ARPAD BERECZKY
> writes:
>>>.Have I made myself
>>>The Rambo Arpi.
>>As much as you can in your excruciatingly limited, mouth-breathing way.
>>Now, why don't you get back to your ultranationalist circle jerk over in
>>the Forum like the lady asked you to.
>>Sam Stowe
>>"I only use my gun
>>Whenever kindness fails..."
>>-- Robert Earl Keen
>I have to agree with this statement>I read enough from Rambo in Forum,just
>not to say anything,so He won't have another way to attack.This guy is good
>for the Forum,but intelligence wise....?


        Arpi Rambo (Bereczky) is not unintelligent. He is just vicious.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Re: The Bloody Footprints of the Commissar (2) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 09:25 PM 8/30/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:

> I tried to
>help you out by explaining the nature of the role of political officers (or
>"comissars") in a communist army.

        Awfully kind of you but considering that my field of concentration
in Hungarian history was the period 1918-1924, I really don't think that I
need it. I am also aware what the role of a political commissar/officer was.

        My real problem is, from a professional point of view, that I don't
find the documentation Csaba Zoltani provided adequate to make a final
judgment on Lukacs's role in the Hungarian Red Army. And here your
experiences in the Hungarian army in the 1980s are no substitute.

        Eva Balogh
+ - Newworld editorial/Soros (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

to all who read the Budapest Sun editorial, I hope you will take it with
a huge grain of salt. The Budapest Sun was one of the worst investements
I ever made in a subscription. The only perception I could get from the
paper is that the editors are a bunch of failures in American business
who went over to Eastern Europe to play, have fun, and pontificate about
the problems of Hungary by always ponting to the likes of Reagan and

Now that is not totally fair. There were occasions the writers did a
great job of covering interesting things athat would be useful for the
Americans living in Budapest. However, that was always my point about
this paper, Budapest centered and of little relavance to anyone outside
of the city.

Darren Purcell
Department of Geography
Florida State University
+ - Funar (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

According to Radio Kossuth Romanian President Iliescu pushed out Funar's
party from the governing coalition. Apparently he could not take Funar's
attacks, lately Funar called him a traitor, as a result of the proposed
treaty with Hungary.

Gabor D. Farkas
+ - Re: Newworld editorial/Soros (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, DARREN E PURCELL wrote:
> the editors are a bunch of failures in American business
> who went over to Eastern Europe to play, have fun, and pontificate about
> the problems of Hungary by always ponting to the likes of Reagan and
> Bush.

 Are you implying that there exist other sorts of Americans gone over ;-)?!

> this paper, Budapest centered and of little relavance to anyone outside
> of the city.

 Unfortunately, one only has to be a Pestian (as opposed to American) to
behave like this - must be something in the water (the capital is
appropriately known as 'the vizfej' in the rest of the country,
incidentally) ;-<...

 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

Version: 2.6.2

+ - The Pope In Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear all !

An important  Hungarian anniversarie is coming up on September
6, when the Pope visits the 1000 year old Pannonhalma Abbey.
I visited the place recently and found this article written by Bela Liptak
fascinating. For those who  read it on HL:  my apologies, use the page down,
it's a bit lengthy. So here it comes :

- Begin article -


        The Pope In My 1000 Year Old High School

On the 6th of September the Pope will participate in the millenarian
celebrations at Pannonhalma. It is rumored that he will use this occasion
to extend the list of Hungarian saints by announcing the canonization of
Gizella, the wife of Saint Stephen, first king of Hungary. When Pope
Sylvester II. sent his crown to Saint Stephen, it was sent through
Pannonhalma. Nearly a  millennium later, it was the United States, which
guarded this sacred symbol of Hungarian national existence, from 1945 to
1978, when President Carter returned it to Hungary through Pannonhalma.
       The Romans called this peak: the sacred mountain of Pannonia (Mons
Sacer Pannoniae), while in 1946, as a 10 year old resident of her boy's
school, I called it Pannonhalma.
       On our way to Pannonhalma, the cart was pulled by two horses, while
a third one was tied to the forage rack. The trip took two days, so when
it got dark, my Father and I, we slept under the cart. I was cold, because
I was "too young to wear long trousers." For me, long trousers were some
ways off, as I was only starting on my 8-year gymnasium career and one can
wear long trousers only after graduation. I was not only cold, I was also
        The horse which was tied to the forage rack of our cart, wanted to
bite me. He made strange, throaty noises, while snapping at me with his
big white teeth. His eyes were like light bulbs, they were shining with
madness in that scary night. But I did not dare to wake my Father, he was
tired, very tired.
       Next day we reached this fortress of a monastery on top of a hill.
The enormous gate in the ten feet thick stone wall was open, so we
entered. They knew who we were, because they immediately took the horse
which was tied to the forage rack. The horse turned out to be my tuition.
Then they led me into the student's hostel. There, in the large, unheated
room, were some 20-30 boys. They were just as scared as I was. I said
goodby to my Father and did not see him or any other relatives until
       This boy's school was run by the Benedictine monks. My home room
teacher was a young friar named Edvin Faggyas. He understood how scared
and lonely we all were and did his best to make us feel at home. He read
to us, organized games, told us jokes, even introduced us to his younger
sister, with whom the whole class fell in love.
       In class, Csana'd To'th was sitting next to me. He had curly
blond hair.  He was a happy, energetic and good kid. A couple of years
later, his father, La'szlo' To'th, a newspaper reporter, was hanged by
the Communists. His crime was, that he investigated the drugging of
Jo'zsef Mindszenty, the Cardinal who
 confessed his crimes  before a kangaroo court. Later Csana'd, a lifetime
friend of mine, became an under secretary of state in Washington and
accompanied Secretary of State Cyrus Vance in 1978, when the United States
returned the Holy Crown of St. Stephen to Hungary.
       I was always cold and hungry at Pannonhalma. There was no way to heat
those enormous stone walls in the winter, and food, well food was scarce.
Once in a while, we would get rice with a few specs of goose meat, with the
tips of the bird's feathers still in place. That was heavenly. But most of
the time, our meal was a dish of peas, with a cooked layer of bladder-worm
floating on top.
       For me, learning latin was almost as hard as feeding on bladder-
worm.  Yet, I had to, because Father Rezs would slap me, if I made a
mistake during altar-serving. Every day, before breakfast, scared and
shivering in my shorts, I assisted Father Rezs , as an altar boy. That was
no fun at all. But afterwards, when Ga'bor Vaszary, a student close to
graduation, who was in love with my cousin Mi=BE, told me, that at my age
he felt the same way, that made me feel better.
           In 1951, Ga'bor Vaszary too was hanged by the Communists.
       When I complained about the cold or the lack of food to Father
Edvin, he would tell me:  Last winter, we had a thousand Jewish kids here.
We were hiding them from the occupying Germans. Now, they had reason to
complain, but you don't!  As time passed, I learned more about Pannonhalma
and about the Benedictine monks. They lived their slogan ora et labora
(pray and work)  and many of their students still emulate them.
       Saint Benedict was an Italian monk. He started the first
Benedictine monastery in the 6th century. When the Benedictine monks moved
to Pannonhalma in 996 AD, the Hungarians have already been there for a
century. Yet in the West, the region was still called by its earlier name:
Pannonia, which was its name when it was a Roman province. The mountain on
which the monastery was built, was called the Saint Mountain of Pannonia.
The monks of Pannonhalma played an important role in the Christianization
of Hungary.
       Saint Martin was born here. King Saint Stephen of Hungary was a
frequent guest and so was his wife Gizella. It was here, that King
Ka'lma'n welcomed Gottfried's crusaders. It was here, that Abbot Ursos
fought off the Tartarian invasion (1207-1243) and it was here last year,
in 1945, that Abbot Krizosztom Kelemen saved those Hungarian- Jewish kids.
       The first school in Hungary was established within the walls of
this monastery. King Stephen and Queen Gizella would come here to read the
works of the ancient authors. The first books in Hungary were copied in
the scriptorium of this priory. It was a Benedictine monk from this
convent who wrote down the first Hungarian words in the founding documents
of the cloister of Tihany in 1055 AD. The library index of 1093 AD lists
250 works copied into 80 codices.
      By 1769 AD, the Abbot received the right to give doctorates in
philosophy and theology (ius gra duandi.) For centuries, the Abbot was
also a member of the Upper House of the Hungarian Kingdom.
       During the war, the Abbot obtained a promise from both the
Hungarian and later from the occupying German authorities, that no
military units would be allowed to enter the monastery. This allowed him
to save the lives of some 1000 Jewish Hungarians. After the defeat of the
Germans, Hungary was occupied by the Soviets and an other form of
religious persecution started.
       In 1948, Cardinal Mindszenty was arrested. In 1950 Pannonha lma was
nationalized and lost all of her estates. In 1951 two students of
Pannonhalma, Ga'bor Vaszary and Oto' Jezerszky were hanged. In 1953 a
number of Benedictine professors were arrested as spies.  After the
Revolution of 1956 Sa'ndor Szu:cs and Ferenc Galambos were sentenced to
death and many of my former classmates emigrated or ended up in jail.
         Today, Pannonhalma is once again doing what it did for a thousand
years. There are 360 students in her gymnasium (high school). Among the 50
professors, 19 are Benedictine monks. Last year eleven monastic fraters
were ordained here. 69 friars live in the Abbey, 62 in the home for the
elderly.  Last year 100,000 tourists visited this 1000 years old high
school of mine.  This year, it will be millions. They will include the
Polish Pope and they will double the population of the city of Gyo:r. I
never taught that my high school was that important.

- End of article  -

Comment: I tend to think it is a pretty important high school :-).
Bela Liptak is one of those rare people who believe that modesty
is a virtue a not a disability.

Best regards,
                  Biro' Jeno".
+ - HungarHotels + freedom of speach (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 08/31 Eva Balogh wrote quoting the spokesman for the Prime Minister's Office

>Kiss Elemer arrol is beszamolt, hogy a kormany szerint helyes volt a
... nyisz, nyisz  ...
>[In brief: the decision to stop the privatization of HungaryHotels was the
>right decision because last year one would have been able to receive only an
>income of 3.8 billion forints, while the hotel chain's sale now resulted in
>15.6 billion forints.]

Today's Hungary Report quoting as sources the major Hungarian dailies
(MH p.3; VG p.4; NG p.3; MN p.1; Nsz pp.1&5) quotes the selling price of what
 formerly the HungarHotels chain, to be  $101.8 million in all, figure that is
equivalent to 15.6 billion Ft at today's exchange rate. That makes at least
half of Mr. Kiss' statement sound true (the 15.6 figure). Whether or not we can
from this,  that the other half is also true I do not know. However if we do,
Horn is right : the 3.8 billion was a very low bid. Even if we consider a
50% inflation of the forint (and I'm being generous here)  for the time period
considered (1.5 years) the 3.8 billion Ft would be worth 5.7 billion in today's
The 15.6 billion figure is almost 3 times higher.

Hope I helped,
        Biro'  Jeno".

P.S. I enjoy your history debates very much. However I do not share your
pessimism when it comes to hungarians not being mature enough to
appreciate freedom of speach as a cornerstone or major ingredient
of democracy. I think they do but there is a heavy load of cinicism involved
when answering polls. (I think you mentioned a 6% figure from a poll).
Could it be caused simply by dire straits or possibly some other
psycho-social or historical factors ?
Enyone care to speculate ?
+ - Re: The Pope In Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

At 3:54 PM 9/2/96, Biro Jeno wrote:
  During the war, the Abbot obtained a promise from both the
>Hungarian and later from the occupying German authorities, that no
>military units would be allowed to enter the monastery. This allowed him
>to save the lives of some 1000 Jewish Hungarians.

Unfortunately, that is a bit of an exaggeration . For a while the Red Cross
operated at Pannonhalma but were expelled from there in 1944. Towards the
end of the war the good brothers provided temporary shelters for hundreds
of refugees but few of them were Jewish. Thirty six Jews were saved by the
Abbot. He describe these actions to his superiors in a letter dated in

=46urthermore, today you can read on the home page of the brothers of Pannon=

1944-45-ben pedig - a Nemzetk=F6zi V=F6r=F6skereszt v=E9delme alatt - t=F6bb=
menek=FClt k=F6z=F6tt csaknem sz=E1z =FCld=F6z=F6tt =E9let=E9t mentette meg =
Krizosztom f=F5ap=E1t (1933-1950).

That is close to one hundred persons were saved.

Other sources:

 Hetenyi Varga Karoly: Kelemen Krizosztom es a pannonhalmi menedek.
VIGILIA, 1985. p.299-

Szennay Andras.: A magyar katolikus egyhaz 1944-ben. VIGILIA (1985). p.290-

Peter I. Hidas

Hungarian Studies
Department Of Russian and Slavic Studies
McGill University
Montreal, Quebec, Canada

+ - Re: About Slovak fascism, general remarks (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Typicky Slovensky Narod,Jeden mudrejsi nez druhy,ale zrat medzi sebou sa
a zavidiet jeden druhemu tiez nie. Slovak som ale od Slovaka nikdy nic
Life's too short... just enjoy it Posraty to narod,nienadarmo maju Slovaci
kriz vo vlajke...... Look at yourself... And I don't want to hear from you
anything,is it clear,let me live my life the way I want it.
+ - Re: Friends. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
To Joe Szalai:
>...<snip>..By the way,why don't you mind your own business?

Because, since you've decided to post on Usenet/listserv, you've made
it his (and everybody else's) business. BTW why don't you grow up?

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC
+ - Re: Gutter language (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Joe Szalai  > wrote:
>At 11:19 PM 8/27/96 -0400, Ferenc Novak wrote:
>>This person apparently enjoys the attention he is getting as a result of his
>>outrageous prose.  He may not realize the total lack of taste and decent
>>breeding his writings demonstrate.  I feel that the best response to this
>>type of writing is the use of the Page Down button -- which I will be using
>>from now on whenever I see his name).  I would like to suggest the same to
>>others as well.  Anyway, the topic has by now veered far from any Hungarian
>Your prose demonstrates profound taste and impeccable breeding.  It also
>shows that you're homophobic.  But take heart.  A lot of Hungarians still
>are.  Not as many as I would have thought just a couple of years ago, but
>Your homophobia seems to be of the "sexual apartheid" variety.  Hence,
>homosexual topics are not 'real' Hungarian topics.  Oh sure, it can be
>mentioned once in a blue moon, but then it should be ghettoized and shoved
>off into its own little corner somewhere.
>Needless to say, I don't subscribe to your fears.  Or your breeding!!!
>Joe Szalai
        Joe - I may have entered into this thread late but in the letter
you respond to there is not one iota of homophobia - the contributor is
responding to use of language not a sexual orientation, as I said, IN
THAT letter.  :)  Again, I may have entered the thread late and maybe
this contributor is homophobic but not in THAT LETTER THEY AIN'T!  :)

Have a nice day.  :)
Mike.  :)