Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 About the "Brown shoes ..." (mind)  65 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: anti-Semitism (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
3 Honor the memory (November 4, 1956) (mind)  296 sor     (cikkei)
4 On SZDSZ and antisemitism (mind)  69 sor     (cikkei)
5 What happened at the Csurka rally? (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Oktober 23 (mind)  113 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: anti-Semitism (mind)  35 sor     (cikkei)
8 Rakosi vs. Kadar regime (mind)  40 sor     (cikkei)
9 clarification (mind)  71 sor     (cikkei)

+ - About the "Brown shoes ..." (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I am surprised nobody critiqued the content of Petrovics-Ofner's "Brown
shoes ..." essay yet, even though references were made to it.
Haven't most of you read it?  Or you found it not worth to discuss?
Well, let me mention just a few items I found objectionable.

Right at the beginning, P-O goes into a pitty attack on Mitchner's
"Bridge at Andau", because the author used some literary licence to
describe events, such as the very first shot fired by the AVO on that
bloody Thursday hit a baby in his mother's arms.  Well, I, too think
that this was probably just a dramatization by Mitchell, but it
certainly is not something that could not have happened.  As a matter of
fact, it might as well have happened.  (Just as an aside, do you think
Bela did not use any dramatization in his series?  Just consider the
minute details he recalls from the distance of 39 years, not to mention
how a non-speaker of English is able to remember such an English phrase
as the one repeated by that American reporter.)  So, some dramatization
is almost to be expected from such writings which -- after all -- are
not written for professional historian audience.

The other thing that P-O took great pain to criticize in the Mitchell
book was the supposedly numerous misspellings and typos of Hungarian
names, as well as poor grammar.  "This guy sure has a nerve", I told
myself as I counted his own shortcomings on the same score.  Obviously,
he, too, must have rushed his piece to print, as Mitchner was. ;-)

But that was just the opener for Petrovics-Ofner.  He went for the
"kill" with what followed.  Just a sample of these:

  '... were you to ask me of the revolution, the last phrase I would use
is a "glorious uprising against Communism."  And I would be correct,
--- for me it was my nation reduced once again to animal-like

Then he pays a salute to the fighters of the famous Corvin Koz so:

  '... But there were also criminal elements --- prisoners of crime let
loose to gut the Corvin.'

You may wonder how P-O was able to ascertain this at the tender age of 8!

Further insinuations, leaving little doubt that he belongs to that 17% :

  '... After romanticism and mythology wane, will it be seen as a
counter revolution, a patriotic revolt, or a mere skirmish.'

But that was just an excuse to lead the reader to, what I suspect O-P's
real purpose was by committing his op-ed, the Hungarian Holocaust:

  "... In 1956 nearly 10,000 Hungarians died at enemy hands, on 1944,
600,000 Hungarians died largely at Hungarian hands.  Which will be

As if one had to choose.  Doesn't that sound like he is worrying that
1956 might "crowd out", divert attention from 1944?
How about that phrase: "largely at Hungarian hands?"  As if Hungary's
German occupation had nothing to do with it.  As if Auschwitz was
operated by Hungarians.

Am I the only one who thinks that O-P's piece is a hatchet job that is
clearly aimed to defame the '56 Hungarian uprising?

Where is that Hungarian Anti-Defamation League Bela mentioned several
times in recent weeks?

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: anti-Semitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Karcsi,

I think, you're absolutely right. It's not only in Hungary or any other
Eastern European country. Even Michael Jackson's song with a word "jew"
in it was regarded as highly ani-semitic earlier this year, though there
was nothing insulting in it.
The worst thing is that most of the polititians take all those insinuations
for granted and do their best to make their politic career of this.

+ - Honor the memory (November 4, 1956) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

NOTE: This is the 12th segment of a memoir of the Hungarian Revolution, which
consists of 15 such daily segments. In these I pay tribute to the memories of
two of the martyrs of 1956: Istvan Angyal and Janos Danner. If at the end of
this series, you would like me to send you the complete text (330,000 bits,)
please let me know. I will also be happy to place this material into any
archive, which asks for it.
    My apologies for the spelling errors in Hungarian words. This is due to
the present limitations of the Internet. As I want to correctly spell all the
Hungarian accent marks in the hard printed copies, this causes problems with
the E-Mailed ones. So the accented vowels are deleted on  and some
are converted by . I hope that in spite of that, the manuscript
is legible.
            The poems quoted in the earlier sections were from Tibor Tollas,
T.E., Endre Ady and Attila Ge'recz.
        I would also like to ask you, that if you find any factual errors
(names, dates, places, etc.), please let me know at , or if
you write about such errors on any of the open forums, please snd me a
personal cpoy.

Best regards: Be'la Lipta'k

Istva'n Bibo' wrote:

"It is the sacred duty of all Hungarians, to pretect, against all slander,
forgetfulness or monotony, the fresh-purity of the flag of the revolution,
which is also the flag of a free-er future of all humanity." (We should all
ask ourselves: Did we live up to Bibo's expectations?)

Laci Zsindely found me in the dean's office on his way to the men's room. I
was sitting on the floow, slumped down next to a radio. First I saw his
talking face, then I started to hear his voice and sometimes later I began to
make sense out of what he was saying:   ..also at Csepel. They were beaten
back on \ll i Street. The streets of Pest are dotted with burned out Russian
tanks. They have also been stopped at Stalin City and in the mining regions
of Pics. According to Radio Free Europe: the Congress of the American
Veterans is demanding that NATO help us and they are mobilizing. As of yet,
there are no Russians in Buda and the barricades are almost ready at Msricz
Square. Every minute, more and more people arrive to man the barricades.
      Each news item is a straw to clutch onto. I want to believe that there
is hope, I want to do my part, but the first words, the first steps are so
hard. If Laci wasn't here, I just could not take them. Laci has such a warm
smile. He knows that we will make it. So I stand up. He is much shorter than
me, but somehow manages to put his arms on my shoulder, and slowly, embracing
each other, like returning from an abyss, he walks me back to the MEFESZ
      The office I return to, is a different place from the earlier one.
These people who are here, are willing to put their lives, where their mouth
is. We don't need a lot of hot air to communicate. We know, that life is
about deeds, not words. Here is Gyuri Egry, better known as Csampi the Men .
This is the last time I see him. (In 1994, he died as the plant mnager of a
corn factory in Peru, leaving behind three sons: Lehel, Akos and Levente.)
      Gyuszi Perr is here, with Marika. They are trying to bring more of our
tanks to Msricz Square. We have 14 parked next to the Library, but they could
move only one, because the rest of the Pilisvvrvsvar tank crews have
disappeared. The one tank that was moved, is commanded by a lieutenant who's
brother died during the first attack two weeks ago. He will fight, I know.
Brothers of that sort do fight.
     Ede Nimethy and Gyurka Burger are giving us the latest news, while
Marika leaves to get some bread. If we fail to hold the square, Gyuszi's
group is heading for the mountains, and Marika knows, that they will need
something to eat. While Marika is gone, I learn that Janos Kadar became the
Hungarian Quisling and formed a counter-revolutionary poppet government. The
Russians gave him a radio transmitter in Szolnok, and he is broadcasting from
there, as the new boss of the Hungarian slaves.
      To my relief, I also learn, that there are no other traitors in Imre
Nagy's government. General Kiraly and our 100 guards are retreating through
the trans-Danubia mountains toward Austria. The majority of the cabinet has
taken refuge at the Yugoslav Embassy, Cardinal Mindszenthy asked for asylum
at the American Embassy and two brave leaders are still at their posts. They
are Sandor Kopacsi, who is still at police headquarters and the minister
without portfolio, Istvan Bibs, who is still in the Parliament.
      While the Soviet tanks are destroying one of Europe's most beautiful
capitals, Bibs is hand-writing, a historic document, which outlines a just
and peaceful resolution of the conflict and lists the steps, which the
Western Powers must take, in order to meet both their legal and moral
obligations. When he is done, he proceeds to meticulously translate the text
into English, French, German and Spanish. He uses his thesaurus dictio nary
to avoid using the same adjective twice, he neatly addresses the four
envelopes, packs up his papers, walks out past the Russian soldiers and
proceeds to each of the four embassies. He hand-delivers this remarkable
document, this confirmation of courage and integrity, this proof that at
least one person in Hungary still has fate in the integrity and sense of
justice of the international community.
       When I hear, that most of our tank crews have run off, it occurs to
me, that uncle Feri, Duduke's husband was a tank commander once.  You think
he would be willing to drive some tanks to the square?  - asks Laci Zsindely.
 I have no idea, but we can check!
       So, we drop into the KA-51 lecture hall, to pick up some powdered milk
from the gift piles received from Austria. Duduke is my Mother's younger
sister. Her baby is only a few weeks old: I'm sure, they can use the milk.
(For decades, the age of this baby, Andrea, indicated to me the length of
Communism's death struggle, after the red behemoth was mortally wounded on
the streets of Budapest in 1956. Unfortunately, Andrea did not live to see
this end, she committed suicide before the monster expired.)
      As we are walking through the corridors, I also pick up some blankets
left behind by the departed military cadets. They will come handy either in
the hills, or if Duduke is out of coal and their apartment is cold. As we are
walking over to number one on Bartsk Street, I tell Laci Zsindely about
Duduke's first baby, who was born some eleven years ago.
      That baby was born at the end of the war. We were in Sopron, the city
was already occupied by the Russians. Duduke had no milk and could not buy
any either, because the Russians commandeered all the cattle and posted armed
guards around the herds. As the baby was slowly starving, Piter and I, aged
11 and 9, decided to steal back some milk from the Russians.
      We got a white, enameled pot and after dark, we took off to find the
herd. Around their camp-fires, the Russian soldiers were drinking vodka,
while we kept creeping on our bellies, towards the herd. This was our first
attempt at milking cows. In the tall weeds, there was no place to put down
the pot, the cows were kicking and mooing, they were doing everything except
standing still and giving milk. I must admit, that our methods at attempted
milking were not conventional, and it must have been painful for the cows, as
we kept pulling on their tender teats. The end result was a couple of ounces
of dirt mixed with milk, and eventually the baby died.
      As we are walking over to Duduke, we can smell the smoke, we can hear
the unrelenting cannon thunder coming from the Pest side of the river. We can
also hear a few words from the loudspeaker on Msricz Square, which is
broadcasting the program of Radio Free Europe. When the pedestrians see our
arm-bands and the sub-machine guns on our shoulders, they stare at the
ground, there is no more approval or expression of solidarity in their body
      In the dignified stair-hall of Duduke's house, as we walk up the marble
stairs, we run into scared tenants, who are on their way to the basement.
They don't look in our eyes either. They are moving into the basement,
carrying food and other essentials. Their eyes blame us for their
      Even before ringing the bell, I can hear the baby crying. In the hall,
the wall is covered by antlers and by uncle Feri's other hunting memorabilia.
His first word is:  Did anybody see you coming here?  I shake my head and
place the milk powder and the blankets on a side table. The BBC radio is on.
It is rebroadcasting the plea of the freedom fighters from Stalin City. They
are begging for paratroopers, their ammunition is low, they are outgunned and
outnumbered by the Russians. The appeal ends in English:  For the sake of God
and freedom, help Hungary!
      Nobody said anything, yet I already know where we stand. The apartment
is filled with terror. They keep staring at our guns. It is obvious, that
they wish us to leave. I say nothing about our tanks or about the upcoming
defense of Msricz Square. I just mumble something about the milk powder and
we leave.
      As we walk back to the university, we hear the same unrelenting thunder
of tank cannon blasts, from the Pest side of the river, which we heard when
we came.  Pista Angyal's welcoming party!  - I point toward \ll i Street.  I
am glad, that you are kidding once again.  - says Laci.
      The university is almost empty. We decide to completely evacuate it and
to close all it's gates, so that it will not be damaged by fighting. We walk
through all the buildings, turn off all the lights, lock all the doors. The
few people we find: a fireman, two medical student girls, Imre Majoross,
Jancsi Danner's driver, and a few others, - we take them to the medical
emergency room and tell them to wait there until the fighting is over. By the
time we get back to the empty MEFESZ office, it is evening.
      Radio Budapest is in the hands of the traitors. Only BBC, RFE and a few
shortwave transmitters are still transmitting the  voices of freedom. Radio
Csokonai is broadcasting from Stalin City, we can hear the cannon fire in the
background as the announcer is begging for western help:  The life of our
nation is in the hands of the United Nations. Please save Hungary! Please
      Now we can also hear the din of the battle from Msricz Square. We turn
off the last lights, lock the main gate and start walking towards the square.
It is dark. It takes us more than an hour to reach the freedom fighters in
the houses surrounding the square. The square itself and the streets leading
to it are already held by the Russian tanks. Gellirt Hill and the side
streets are still ours. We have to approach the square through the gardens
behind the houses. We are climbing fences and fighting dogs in the process.
The closer we get, the more deafening is the thunder of the cannons. I had no
idea, that such loudness existed at all.
      Between the thundering roars, we can still hear the broadcast of Radio
Free Europe, which is amplified through a loudspeaker. Right now, a refined
female voice is talking about Eisenhower's chances in next Tuesday's
election.  Those idiots elected him once, because he promised to liberate us,
now they will reelect him, because he broke his pledge!  - says Laci.
     We are trying to get to the apartment house, where Gyuszi Perr and
Marika are fighting, on the first floor. First we enter the basement, which
is now converted into an air-raid- shelter. It is full of residents. There is
chaos, panic and confusion. The superintendent was shoot in the stomach just
a few minutes ago. He is lying on his back, there is rattle in his throat and
is bleeding profusely.  Would you take him to Orlay Street?  - asks somebody
and without waiting for an answer, they are pulling a medic's white smock
over my head.
     Laci finds a ladder, which can be used as a stretcher. We tie down the
poor guy onto it, and start out, through the gardens. It is the same way as
we came. We are heading toward the office of Dr. Bakay in Orlay Street. It is
a long struggle. The dying man is heavy, the night is dark, the terrain is
impossible. It must take an hour to cover this one mile distance. Bakay's
office is full of wounded people. We leave the poor guy on the floor, and
turn around to go back to the square. We take our ladder-stretcher with us,
just in case.
      It must be around midnight, when we get back. On the square, all hell
broke loose. Houses are on fire, the flashes of muzzle-fires illuminate the
sky. The detonations torture my ear, paralyze my mind. What I feel is more
than panic or terror. It feels like if my mind has short-circuited and
stopped functioning altogether, that I turned into a vegetable from the
piercing noise and the blinding flashes.
       The upper floors of Gyuszi's apartment-house are ablaze. The cracking
and crashing sounds mix with the thunder of the tank cannons. The front of
the building faces the square, the back is toward Gellirt Hill. On this, the
back or courtyard-side of the burning building, an outside corridor is
running along its whole length. I see professor Bsnis from the Metallurgy
Department. He is on the second floor of this long balcony. He is running
from one apartment to the next, with his sub-machine-gun at the ready. (After
the revolution he became a professor at MIT and today he is a major supporter
and sponsor of the Boston Opera.)
       Most of the firing is by the Russians. Their tanks stand in a circle,
- like the pioneer's wagons did, when attacked by Indians. The freedom
fighters fire only intermittently, many of their guns have fallen silent. The
tanks are systematically firing their salvos at each window, in which they
see movement, or where they receive fire from. We run up to the first floor
apartment, where Gyuszi Perr and Marika has their machine-gun. The apartment,
has received several hits, the front wall, which was facing the square, is
gone, the floor is knee-deep in debris.
       The other members of Gyuszi's group are fighting from the other
apartments on this floor. Every time the gun-barrels turn toward their floor,
they run out to the outside-corridor in the back, which connects the
entrances of all apartments on that floor.
      Gyuszi's machine-gun is still operational, but they are low on
ammunition. He is trying to pierce the gasoline tank of the nearest tank, but
on these new tanks, the gasoline container is not on the outside, but under
the armoring. Therefore it is a very difficult to puncture it. In spite of
that, I can see four or five Russian tanks, which have been de stroyed, by
either Gyuszi's method, by Molotov cocktails or by our one tank.
      I also see this one tank of ours, which made it to Msricz Square, the
one driven by a young lieutenant, who's brother died during the first attack,
two weeks ago. It now looks like a pile of junk metal. Both that tank and our
one anti-aircraft cannon, were protecting and facing into Bartsk Street's
west entrance of the square and when the Russians attacked from Fehirvari
Street, their backs became exposed. Still, they stopped the Bartsk Street
tank column. If we had just one other tank at the entrance of Fehirvari
Street, the outcome could have been different.
      There are no Russian infantryman on the square yet, they are waiting
next to the tennis courts at the Bottomless Lake. They are waiting for our
small arms fire to subside. Behind all the thunder and chaos, when the noise
periodically subsides for a few seconds, we can hear the broadcasts of Radio
Free Europe. It is Monday morning, the morning of the day before election day
in the United States. The radio is broadcasting a speech by Eisenhower, which
he made during the previous election campaign, four years ago, when he
announced his  policy of liberation.  This policy is our last straw of hope,
and we hang onto it.
      Now Gyuszi has noticed the movement of a tank cannon and yells:  Escape
to the back corridor!  We scramble out of the room and run toward the
entrance of the apartment, which is on the back balcony. In the door, Marika
turns around and runs back for the bread.  Come back! Leave it!  -roars
Gyuszi, but it is too late. One blinding flash, one piercing blast and a
second or two later, a puff of smoke and dust billows out of the apartment
door, and rolls down the side of the building.
      Gyuszi is out of his mind. He is down on all fours, he is groping and
fumbling around, he is coughing his lungs out, his face is covered with black
soot, except for the two lines, which the streaming tears have washed on his
face. We all try to find Marika. I have covered my mouth with my
handkerchief, so I'm not coughing that hard. Lacika is also down on all
fours. Now he screams. He has grabbed a piece of red hot metal, it could be
either a piece of the exploded shell or the barrel of Gyuszi's machine-gun.
As I am crawling blindly in the smoke and dust, I almost fall out to the
square, because the front wall of the apartment has completely disappeared,
and the smoke is so thick that I can not distinguish between the inside and
the outside.
      Now, suddenly there is total silence. We hold back our coughing and
during this temporary lull, we all hear it. It comes from the back of the
room. It is a quiet, slow dripping, that we hear. We all crawl into that
darkest corner of the room and than Gyuszi reaches into something sticky. As
he does, we all hear this painful, animal squeak. It was Marika's wounded leg
that he touched. She is half covered by plaster, her clothing is in shreds,
the wound on her leg is so deep, that the knee bone is visible. She is still
holding onto the loaf of bread, which she came back for, when the tank fired.
       The blond little gymnast is white as a sheet or as my medic's smock.
She is limp and light, as we carry her down to the basement. We bandage her
up to stop the bleeding, and start out once more, with our ladder-stretcher,
toward the Orlay Street office of Dr. Bakay. Our load is much lighter than
during the previous trip. Marika is still holding the loaf of bread. We cover
her closed eyes, so that the flashes of the cannon blasts would not frighten
her. Our progress is faster than before, by now we have learned the way and
Marika does not weigh anything.
       Dr. Bakay's office floor is completely covered with the bodies of the
wounded. We are stepping over people, as we finally find a bit of room in one
corridor. We put her down. Gyuszi is talking to the doctor. Marika has lost
consciousness. As we are waiting for Gyuszi, it seems as if her eyelids
moved. I kneel down next to her. It appears as if her mouth has also moved. I
put my ear to her mouth to hear her frail little whisper:  Vcsi, there is
some candy in my right pocket, take some.
       My heart is in my mouth. I don't know what to say, I don't know what
to do. I feel enormous anger and frustration. It would feel so good to be
able to cry, to weep over my little sister, to cry over our dreams, the
dreams of the millions who dared, who gave everything they got, who believed,
but I can't. I can't, because of this anger which is swelling up inside me. I
want to call down the wrath of God on these red butchers. I want to do the
same to the idle bureaucrats of the UN, to the oil hungry businessman
manipulating the Suez crisis, to the rich and heartless West, to the lying
American President and I want to curse myself, most of all myself, for having
talked this little girl and so many others, into believing that there is
justice, that we can win, that freedom is more precious than life itself,
when all I did was talking them into committing suicide.
     (This was the last time I have seen Marika, I do not know, if she
survived that awful wound, but her last sentence, I will treasure forever. In
the early 1990's, I did hear from Gyuszi Parr. He was flying over me and was
calling from his company airplane, that of the Cummings Engine Company of
Columbus in Ohio.)
+ - On SZDSZ and antisemitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tamas Toth:

>I am sorry about the sarcasm on your higher faculties; I know it was

No, it wasn't cruel. It was misplaced.

>Again, I still would not have written it that way, had you not had a
>track record of rushed-into judgements that seem to be politically rather
>than intellectually motivated.  (For instance the latest shot from the hip
>"I don't know what AMOSZ is but sure as hell they are bad guys", to quote
>the *substance* of your words.)

No, my first reaction was: how primitive and stupid! It may be a
"rushed-into" judgment, but this is how I feel. But over and above that, I am
unable to have a very high opinion of the largest American-Hungarian emigre
organization which spends its members' money on the madcap ideas of a tiny,
extremist minority.

>Now in my mind it is your God-given right to be political.

It has nothing to do with politics--it has something to do with intelligence.

>What you seemed to have missed is the *subject*.
>        The subject was *you*, Eva, to be more specific, some thinking
>patterns of yours which I think are not correct.

This list happens to concern itself with the history, politics, economics,
and culture of Hungary. It is not a list where we analyze each other's
"thinking patterns."

>However, I happen to believe that much of the current (self-
>proclaimed) liberal thinking is intellectually bankrupt.

You are certainly entitled to that.

>You often stated that SZDSZ is closest to you in the
>Hungarian political spectrum.  Now if this is based on a working knowledge
>of what SZDSZ stands for, it is fine.  But if it is motivated primarily by
>emotions (for instance: antisemites hate them, I hate antisemites, therefore
>I am pro-SZDSZ), than you may have missed the latest train ("lemaradt egy

Yes, I said several times that given the Hungarian political scene, the SZDSZ
is the closest to a modern Western party. I especially agreed with their
economic plans; that is, quick and radical move into market economy. I also
appreciated their leaders' participation in the dissident movement--as
opposed to those who became such avid anti-communists only when it became
safe. It may surprise you that by American standards I am not a liberal and
certainly I am a conservative when it comes to economics. On the other hand,
I was disappointed in the SZDSZ's leaders when they decided to join Gyula
Horn's government.

Anyone who is not entirely familiar with the Hungarian political scene may
not understand your somewhat oblique reference to "I hate antisemites,
therefore I am pro-SZDSZ." I want you to know that indeed I do not like
antisemites but this has nothing to do whatsoever with my sympathies for the
SZDSZ. On the other hand, if people find the SZDSZ's politics unacceptable
simply because it is considered to be a "Jewish party," I consider these
people antisemitic. By the way, I am, just like you, a Calvinist and my
ancestors were Hungarians, Croats, and Germans. Not one Jew among them. But
my family belonging to the Hungarian middle class (not the so-called "uri
kozeposztaly" [gentry middle-class]) had strong ties with other members of
the same middle class who were often Jewish. As a child I had no idea who was
and who wasn't Jewish--only when 80 percent of my kindergarten class perished
in the holocaust did I find out. And I will fight against antisemitism
because I never want something similar to happen again.

Eva Balogh
+ - What happened at the Csurka rally? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Someone asked:

>Mi volt 23-an ? How many people at Csurka rally?

First of all, I think Csurka's rally took place on the 22nd. According to one
report 7,000 people showed up while another claims that there were 25,000
people present. In any case, they shouted some anti-semitic slogans; went to
the Radio where they wanted to read their "12 points," a la in 1956 but they
were turned away.

Eva Balogh
+ - Re: Oktober 23 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The excerpts below come from the English-language news service
Hungary Around the Clock.
Tibor Szendrei

Nationwide commemorations mark 1956 uprising

Commemorations were held throughout Hungary on Monday marking the 39th
anniversary of the start of the Hungarian uprising on October 23, 1956.
Decorations were presented in Parliament at noon Monday and Speaker of
Parliament Zoltan Gal announced that the pensions of those who could
prove they actively took part in the revolution would be raised to Ft
25,000 a month from January 1. Speaking at a state wreath-laying ceremony
Monday morning in Rakoskeresztur public cemetery, where many of the
martyrs of the failed uprising are buried, including the late prime minister
Imre Nagy, Foreign
Minister Laszlo Kovacs said that those who try to use the occasion to
jeopardize democracy and a
state governed by the rule of law and who want to tarnish the
remembrance with
extremist organizations are not the inheritors of 1956. He remarked that
has a democratically elected government, and only unconstitutional
rather than a revolution can be declared against it. Parliamentary
committee chairman Imre Mecs recalled that several of the demands raised
in 1956
are still topical, since restoration of the economy is still ahead. Prime
Minister Gyula Horn, Kovacs and Gal then paid tribute to the memory of
and martyrs. Later on Monday the opposition parties and various other
organizations paid tribute to the anniversary in separate commemorations.
Democratic Forum president Lajos Fur joined Christian Democrat
Peter Harrach and Young Democrat leader Viktor Orban at a ceremony
staged by
Technological University's 1956 Foundation and Rakoczi Federation at the
University of Technology. At rally in Castle District Sunday evening, Fur
declared that the present government is preparing a society in which the
law of
the jungle prevails, adding that as the government is one of social
and lack of national commitment, it must be dissolved under
constitutional and
legitimate frameworks. Smallholders President Jozsef Torgyan told a
arranged by The National Organization of Political Prisoners of War
that if those who sympathize with the Smallholders can combine their
they can win a sweeping victory in 1998 or in early elections. Speaking
in the
Corvin koz, one of the principal sites of fighting in 1956, Smallholders
vice-president Agnes G. Nagy Maczo called into question democracy in
today. She also said it was hard to explain why the authorities allowed
extremist groups to stage a demonstration, alluding to functions
arranged by
Hungarian Public Welfare Federation. Hungarian men of letters unveiled a
memorial plaque outside the Hungarian Writers Association building on
utca. Christian Democrat president Gyorgy Giczy said his party wants
Christian Democrat president Gyorgy Giczy said his party wants to see
consistent representation of national interests on major political,
social and
economic issues facing the country. Viktor Orban told a press briefing
there is a realistic chance that the government will not complete its
term of
office, as it is unable to achieve economic growth and defeat the black
thus levying shocking taxes on the population. He said his party can
governing jointly with the Democratic Forum and the Christian Democrats,
would like to have peaceful coexistence with the Smallholders. On Sunday
Hungarian Justice and Life Party staged a demonstration outside Hungarian
Television, demanding early elections and the resignation of the
Party president Istvan Csurka called for civil disobedience,  as Hungary
has no
revolutionary youth. A three-member delegation took a 12-point petition to
Hungarian Television, which was, however, not read aloud on TV, only
for study. (October 24, Magyar Hirlap pp.1&5; Magyar Nemzet p.5;
Nepszabadsag pp.1&4; Nepszava pp.1&2; Kossuth Radio; TV1)

Csurka plans civil disobedience

Istvan Csurka, president of the Hungarian Justice and Life Party (MIEP),
reporters Thursday that further acts of protest demonstrations and civil
disobedience like that in Budapest Sunday are planned for the future. He
his party dissociates himself from the extremist trend represented by
Albert Szabo. Csurka said Szabo and his associates are "commissioned" to
at all MIEP functions, but he cannot prove this. He noted that the
placing of
video cameras in trees to film participants in the October 22
demonstration was
an unconstitutional act. (October 27, Nepszabadsag p.4; TV1)

On Fri, 27 Oct 1995

> Mi volt 23-an ? How many people at Csurka rally?
+ - Re: anti-Semitism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

paul > wrote:

>Peter I. Hidas wrote:
>>Is it the aim of most (if not all) Jewish writers/intellectuals to
>>turn everything round into an antisemetic discussion? - or am I just being

>>Dear Karcsi,
>>You are not being over dramati but you are making anti-Semitic statements.

>Why and how under the sky can this statement be called anti-Semitic?
>Is critisizing a Jew the definition of anti-Semitism?  Jews are no better
>than anyone else, and can justly be critisized.

>Are you saying that a Jew cannot be wrong? It's unfortunate when one among
>"God's chosen people" takes to thinking he is among "God's only people" or
>"God's best people".

>Paul Gelencser

One can certainly criticise a Jew without being anti-Semitic, but a
blanket criticism of all Jews is by definition.... well, how would you
take it if somebody suggested that "All those hungarians care about

I'm sure that most Jewish intellectuals and writers would like to get
past anti-semitism and have seen the last of it.  They would rather
discuss other ideas, but naturally Jews will be more sensitive to
anti-Semitism than most gentiles, and it remains a problem in most
European and American countries, including the US and Hungary.

In case anybody wants to lump me into a category, I'm a Roman
+ - Rakosi vs. Kadar regime (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Writing about the difference in the influence the Rakosi regime vs the Kadar
regime had on society, she wrote:

 > Although it seemed like
>ages, the Rakosi period in our history was really very short. It was a
>brutal, Stalinist, terror-ridden, totalitarian regime and therefore its
>message (if there was such) didn't penetrate very deeply into the
>consciousness of the population. The Kadar regime, on the other hand,
>especially after the mid-1960s, used entirely different tactics and these
>milder methods (called "puha diktatura" in Hungary; i.e., soft dictatorship)
>proved to be much more effective. Whole generations grew up in this regime
>and it would be surprising if their thinking didn't reflect all that.
>Unfortunately, the political and economic surroundings especially influenced
>people's attitude toward individual achievement, self-reliance, and
>initiative. They have become passive always waiting for the state to solve
>their problems. This is what I find most disturbing.

I would like to add a personal observation:

Growing up in Leanyfalu, Hungary in the 50's, I spent a lot of time at our
neighbor's place, Bishop Ravasz (mostly with his grandchildren, of
course...)  His son in law was Istvan Bibo.  At the time I really had little
understanding as to who he was as a politician and statesman, I knew him as
a librarian and one of my friends' Dad.

Of course, as 56 happened, I heard a great deal about him and learned a lot
more about him.

In 68, when I first went home, I looked him up.  He was just recently
released from jail.  I didn't even think of why, but he suggested we go
outside for a walk.  Once outside, he talked to me, not so much as a family
friend but as someone who could take a message back to the US.  He said that
Communism did not win in 1948 (when they won their first rigged elections)
or in 1956 (when Soviet troops enforced the communist regime by putting down
the Revolution) but won in the 1960's, when Kadar loosened the reigns of
communism, and insinuated itself into everyone's mind.

Over the years I remembered often his prophetic words...

Charlie Vamossy
+ - clarification (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


---------- Originally,  wrote to PETROVICS
OFNER ----------

 Peter Hidas writes:
 P> Subject:      Re: anti-Semitism
 P> The problem is why an intellectual is wrong
 P> or mistaken and why a writer is
 P> incorrect re facts or opinion. Are they wrong
 P> for intellectual reasons or
 P> because their mother was Jewish? I have no
 P> objection to any attack or criticism
 P> of any view but why are you attacking the
 P> messenger rather than the message?

It is far easier to attack people. They are concrete entities.
Messages, or ideas --in my case, a simple "Opinion Piece" is abstract,
the capacity for Formal Operations, as Piaget calls it.
People operating at Concrete Operations levels of development, in
tend to attack the messenger.

I am seriously interested in views I post and hope you will
take the effort to clarify your objections to my own effort at
clarification in  posts
of my own position that
the relation between 1944 and 1956 is drawn out by survival guilt.
When Stalin's Statue
was pulled down, the shadow of Hitler loomed from his boots for some,
perhaps many.
Certainly that is not a fact, as I have stated over and again, and
have reduced my
opinion to a solitary view, even to a grain of sand in history.

It is striking to me that readers overlook the rounded perspective
when I also stated that
the Revolution was a quest "for the purest of truth" --an outcry for

I do not think that there is any sin in a young '56'er yearning for
the same
careful treatment of 1956 as Braham gave from 1861 onward for the
Jewish experience:
in English, in multiple texts, facts backing facts, etc.  Kindly let
me know if there
is such a text, a product of group effort?

As an Opion Piece, one has a right to opinion --especially from
personal recountings.
I agree that my language was not suited for this Forum --perhaps for
psychologists or
writers, perhaps not right for some particular
people in this Forum. My voice carried over from disappointment in
readings of "revised"
and "updated" texts used in the education system here that mistreat or
both 1956 and 1944.


--- MOMS 3.0