Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
Copyright (C) HIX
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: millcentenial articles (mind)  39 sor     (cikkei)
2 Honor the memory (October 21, 1956) (mind)  296 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Hungary need vision of hope,not more history! (mind)  21 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: millcentenial articles (mind)  33 sor     (cikkei)
5 The Paris Peace Conference and Trianon (mind)  49 sor     (cikkei)
6 On Szendi and Erdey (mind)  50 sor     (cikkei)
7 HUNGARY To von Ghyczy (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: millcentenial articles (mind)  4 sor     (cikkei)
9 (sort of) Free cookies! (fwd) (mind)  78 sor     (cikkei)
10 To the administrator/moderator (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Dr. Endrey's politics (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
12 ISO9002 (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re : Moving to Hunagry!!! (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: millcentenial articles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Fred Hamori ) wrote:
: Looking for interesting articles related to the 896AD settlement of the
: Magyar Federation whether it is history, archeology, anthropology, music,
: art, etc. I have started a Webpage on this topic in preparation for next
: years event. Also would like any information on celebrations planned in
: hungary or throughout the world. Only positive, serious inputs will be
: taken. My webpage is at http://server.snni.com/~fredh if you want to get
: a glance at what we have so far. All related material or news is welcome.
: Fred Hamori

        I would like to express my opinion here about 896 AD. In my opinion
        ( and probably in a few others' ) this was the _second_ 'honfoglalas'
        . I maintain that the _first_ one was when the Huns came from the
        East in the V. century.In my opinion we should not separate Huns and
        Hungarians as different groups.The connection between the two of
        course only exist(ed) in 'legends' only as there is no written (?)
        proof of it.We should look at Attila as the first 'honfoglalo',
        a brilliant leader ( as recently it was expressed in 2 book(lets)
        by an american author ). He _really_ conquered East & West unlike
        Alexander the Great,Napoleon,Hitler,Stalin,etc... . I don't want
        to into this now but we really should shake off the history written
        and _distorted_ by communist ( and leftist ) 'historians' all over
        the world.When Arpad came in 896 AD they didn't just miraculously
        'find' the Carpathian base , they followed an oral history of their
        forebears.I repeat again as 1996 approaches that we should really
        face the facts about this.There is nothing to be ashamed about the
        Huns.I hope some people will understand this.

        One more thing: In either this group or in s.c.m I've seen ( I think
        it was Hungary Digest ) a post from someone ( sorry I can't recall
        now ) in which Transylvania was equated with 'Siebenburgen'.
        Could someone please correct me but I always remembered that it is
        'Siebenwalden'. I don't want to start an argument here , I'm just
        curious and like to be correct.Maybe one of us with German knowledge
        can post here an answer.        Thank you.

                                        Csaba  Harangozo
+ - Honor the memory (October 21, 1956) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

This is that part of the year, when it is time to remind the world, remind
our fellow Americans (by writing letters to our local papers) that the
down-payment for the peace dividend, resulting from the collapse of
Communism, was paid for in Hungarian blood 39 years ago. That memory is our
national treasure, we should, we must protect it.
        Mine is a lucky generation: we were there, we have seen the miracle.
We have known the children who faced down the tanks. For us this is not
history, it is a piece of our lives, an event that changed us and changed the
        Yes, I know that none of this is new. I know that this topic is not
"in", that today  we are more interested in party politics, privatization,
debt payment and the like. But I also know that reform must be rooted in
spiritual renewal, in faith and solidarity. So we must recall the days, when
the nation was a family, when our spirits were unconquerable, when we dared
to dream. We must remember those who paid an advance in blood to secure a
better future for all of mankind and never asked anything in return. This is
why I am writing about the Davids who mortally wounded the Goliath of tyranny
in 1956.
        This recollection starts on the 21st of October, 1956:

        Dedicated to the memories of
        Istvan Angyal, Janos Danner
        and the heroic children
        of Budapest*

        (* This is not a history book, it probably contains
        errors in both facts and identities. Yet real names
        are used and actual events are described, based on
        the fading memory of one, who in 1956,
         was a 20 year old student.)

                The yellow number 47 tram was screeching as it made the
ninety degree turn onto Freedom bridge. It took only 3 or 4 long steps to
reach the last car and to jump onto it. The ticket collector, a big busted
blond women, is right there on the dirty back platform:  No standing on the
stairs! Please come up to the platform.  - she says to the young man standing
next to me. He moves up, I stay on the stairs. I know that being 187
centimeters (6'-2 ), I am tall enough for her to think that I am already up.
I must be 6 inches taller than the average Hungari an. That is just about the
height of one step. I was right, the ticket collector did not bother me.
      It was 3:58 PM when I caught the tram on \ll i Street and decided to
jump off between stops, right in front of the Kinizsi sports field. I am good
at this: One has to jump backwards, to reduce the forward speed relative to
the pavement at landing, but one has to do that, while facing forward. When
your shoes hit the pavement, you better run like hell, otherwise you will
still fall on your face. I guess I can jump off at a speed of 40 miles per
hour or so.
      I quickly change into my slightly dirty red and white jumping outfit
and put on my nailed and rather stinking jumping shoes in the equally smelly
changing room. I liked my red athletic tricots, because they made my skinny
upper body look more muscular. The jumping competition has already started.
The bar is already at 130 centimeters. When I check in, uncle Jani (in
Hungarian the familiar address for an older man is  bacsi  which can be
loosely translated as uncle), the coach gives me an annoyed bark:  Hey, are
you another one of those conceited prima donnas? You don't even show up until
we pass 130? Or was it Agnes?  I act as if I did not hear him and concentrate
on bending, stretching and loosening my muscles, which are already loose from
the hot bath. I was surprised that he remembered Agnes. Uncle Jani did not
see my 15 years old, green eyed little girl friend more than once or twice,
as she was waiting for me after training. So how can he remem ber?
      When I get in line, the bar is at 140. There are two jumpers ahead of
me. The first is a spectacled, redheaded fellow, he took off his glasses, ran
directly at the bar and jumped head first, in the newly fashionable  rolling
 style. He clears. The next jumper, a tall, blond guy, uses the same  scissor
 technique as I, except that he pushes off from his left foot and therefore
approaches the bar from the right. He also clears. Now it is my turn. I run
at the bar from the left, kick off when I am almost completely under it, feel
a good lift and then my left knee hits the bar.  Number 29, second try!  -
yells the judge while I am spitting out the sand, which I swallowed upon
      I cleared 140 on the second try and that made me less nervous. At 150,
I cleared the bar on the first attempt and by a good margin.  Not bad number
29!  - mumbled the judge. Out of the 50 or so jumpers, about half of us have
cleared 150. My best jump ever was 155, but today I feel particularly good. I
clear 155 in the company of about 10 others. At 160 I got a bit scared. I
never jumped that height before. The bar was as tall as my Mother or Agnes.
That is high! I missed  twice at 160 and then on the third try cleared it
like a bird. Wow! This felt good! There are only six of us left. Now, people
start gathering around the jumping area. There is the blond little runner,
Marika, the bride of Gyuszi Perr. She is so vibrant, so full of energy. (Who
would think that in two weeks she will be dyeing in my arms.) Attila is also
watching, it feels good to be the center of attention. It gives me energy and
      At 165 I am the fourth to jump. The first cleared, the next two missed.
Now it is my turn. I start further back than ever before, pick up as much
speed as I know how and then take three very long steps and on the last step,
kick off with all my might. I was rising, the bar came closer and closer, now
it is at eye level, now I am looking down at it, now my left leg is over, now
my bottom, my right leg; I cleared it! I can't believe it! It was so easy, so
simple and natural. For a moment they are all looking at me. Marika comes
over and says:  Just like a field frog!  and pushes her index finger into my
      I start taking off my jumping shoes, but uncle Jani stops me:  Don't
you want to try for 170? If you clear, you get a medal!   How do you know
that?  - I ask.  Come on! I know everybody here. Gulyas will win at 180,
Kovacs will clear 175 and either you or Varga will take the bronze at 170.
  Well, it will be Varga!  - I reply.  For me 165 is just fine. Besides, we
have no bread at home and its my job to bring some for dinner.   Bread on
Sunday?  - muses uncle Jani.  Yeh, the Baros Kvzirt is open until 6, so I
have to run!
      When one is 20 and did not eat since morning, the smell of freshly
baked bread is kind of special. The two kilogram (4.4 pounds) loaf costs 6.80
Forints. Memi gave me 10 for the bread and I had 2 of my own. The ticket to
Gellirt was 4.60, so now I don't have enough money to call Agnes. This is
bad! I still have 10 minutes until the train leaves for Kerepes, so I could
tell her about clearing 165 and we could make plans to see  The Women of
Selistye , this Italian movie, tomorrow. The movie starts at 4 PM. Her
classes are probably over by then. Of course I don't have money for the movie
tickets either, but tomorrow is the 22nd of October, so I can try to get my
November stipend. That is 140 Forints. God, that is a lot of money. I would
be rich!
       While waiting for the 6:24 train, and while thinking about tomorrow,
my hand, almost without my knowledge, peels off a bit of the crust of the
bread. Wow! It is so good. Now a bigger piece. Now some of the warm, steaming
inside. I keep picking at the loaf while waiting for the train. I continue
doing that during the 50 minute ride to Kerepes. There is an other 20 minute
walk to our house. Its almost 8 PM by the time I get home, half of the loaf
is gone.
      As I open the creaking iron gate, Bukucs, my young German shepherd runs
to me at full speed. She is just crazy about me, nobody loves me like that! I
don't know why I deserve this? Is it my smell? Is this my reward for keeping
my cleansing urges under control? She is rubbing her nose to my knee, she
can't stop the licking and the jumping. Is she trying to remind me that it
has been some time, since I went with her (only with her!), for a full day in
the woods, picking mush rooms, watching birds? Is she trying to make a point?
        The light is on in the kitchen. As I step through the door, Andris
starts yelling:  Vcsi ate the bread! Vcsi ate the bread!  Andris is four
years younger than I, he is a skinny cry baby, but still calls me  Vcsi ,
which means  little brother . I got this name before Andris was born, when I
had only an older brother, Piter. So at that time I was the little brother:
Vcsi. In the corner of the kitchen, Aptyi is talking excitedly with two of
our neighbors. Their hats are on, half empty wine glasses are in their hands
and I hear the mispronounced name:  Eisenhoffer  over and over again, but I
am not paying much attention. Memi takes the bread:  For tomorrow's
sandwiches!  - she says, and gives me a bowl of steaming hot bean soup, but
no bread. Piter is reading in the next room and Nagymemi (my mother's mother)
is just leaving, going slowly back to her room. As always, she has her winter
coat on.
         I cleared 165!  - I say to no one in particular. The conversation
stops for a few seconds, Aptyi looks at me proudly, Memi is searching the
markings on the door post, where the heights of the family are dated, to see
how high is 165 centimeters? The only one who is really impressed is Andris.
 My foot  - he says -  you did not!  Now, that is a real compliment!
       After dinner, I throw my drafting board on the kitchen table and start
working on the ball bearing design that I have to hand in tomorrow. I already
drew the outlines in light pencil, what is left is to ink it over. I am using
pitch black India ink and a razor blade to scrape out the slightest mistakes.
 Appear ance is everything to professor Vvrvs  - I say to Andris, -  he does
not care, if the balls are cubical as long as the drawing is neat.
      While I am still working, the neighbors start saying their elaborate
good nights. Some say, that Hungarians say good by and stay, but this is a
slight exaggeration, they eventually do leave, it just takes longer for them
than for anybody else on this planet. Then, when Memi is done with cleaning
up, she too goes to bed. Aptyi checks on the animals before following Memi to
their bedroom. It is well after midnight, Andris and Piter are snoring, when
I finally roll up the drawing and hit the bed myself.
      Memi tries to wake me at 6 AM and again at 6:15 AM. There is no heat in
the house, the bathroom is dreadful, so who wants to get up? The toilet does
not flush, the hot water is cold and everybody wants to get in there at the
same time. Aptyi is long gone. I dress quickly.
     My sandals are cold for October, but I am certainly not going to wear
out my beautiful new  csukas.  Csuka is the name for the shoes with two inch
thick synthetic rubber soles. I spent all my earnings of last summer to buy
my csuka and an equally smart purple corduroy jacket. I never had new shoes
before. So I will wear the sandals, my jampec (teddy-boy) pants, which are so
tight below the knee that I need a zipper to get into them and I will
certainly wear my tailor made, purple corduroy jacket, which I spent 8 weeks
of wages on. It is my first and only tailor made jacket. It gives me broad
shoulders and a muscular, dashing look. It also gives Agnes an armpit to nest
in as we walk. That armpit was made just for her and she loves it. She looks
up from there with a mischievous twinkle in her eye, while contemplating
whether she should trip me or if an unexpected shove with her little tush
will do?
     I leave the house at 6:35 AM, the train leaves at 6:52 and I need 20
minutes to get to the station, so I am running. I pass Iva Ordassy, an other
beauty I am in love with (without her knowledge.) She is on her way to the
Teachers College. She is catching the 7:02 local. I am in trouble! So I run
like a gazelle. Running is not easy with the ball bearing drawing and the
books I am carrying. It is 6:51 AM, when I get to the top of the hill, I see
the train coming in. I am still some 500 meters from the station. I run like
my life depended on it. I have an other 300 meters to go when the train
stops. I am 200 meters when the last passenger gets on. I am 100 meters when
the train starts again. I see Tibi Bakonyi keeping the door open on the last
car. The train is already picking up speed when I grab the handle with my
right hand. It yanks me forward and I fly up onto the stairs. The drawing and
books are safe under my left arm. I made it.
       Tibi is my friend. He pretends to be cool and aloof. His pitch black
hair is always neatly combed. He also owns an authentic Pelican fountain-pen.
His father was one of the Regent's guards. He lost his right leg during the
fighting, when the German SS occupied the palace some 12 years ago. Tibi's
father, uncle Aladar, hates all occupiers, including our present ones, the
Russians. Tibi is playing tarot. Tarot is the aristocrat of card games, it
compares to bridge like Connecticut compares to New Jersey. It is also the
card game of the opposition, any and all oppositions. There is no such thing
as a conformist tarot player.
       My Mother's first love, Janos Melocco was a tarot player. Later he
became a reporter for a Catholic paper. When uncle Janos found out that the
Communists have drugged Mind szenty, the Catholic Primate, in order to make
him  confess  to his  crimes , and tried to report on that, he was arrested
and hanged.
      The delicate Communist method of notifying his wife, aunt Dora, was to
send her a package, containing his clothing and a printed form. The form
stated that his hanging is a state secret, not to be discussed with anyone.
(In Hungarian, the familiar term for an older lady is  nini . I'm using aunt,
as an approximate translation.) Otherwise, there was no explanation, nothing.
Some respect for human life!
        When Aptyi learned of this package, and after he did his colorful
cursing, which could go on for 15-20 minutes, without repeating a single
profanity, he started attending the Catho lic(!) mass, in the only church of
our village. He was no Catholic, he disliked both organized religion and the
sanctimo nious Catholic priests. He attended in protest. He attended, so that
at the end of the sermon, his voice could shake the windows as he sung the
National Anthem. That was the only place where the anthem, - this
reactionary, counter-revolution ary and chauvinistic relic of the past, - was
tolerated. Outside, you could only sing about the heroic Soviet people and
their leading role in the heroic struggle for peace.
       When the train gets in, I do my usual running and streetcar jumping to
be on time for my first class at the Technical University. I scale the many
stairs, of this majestic jewel of Hungarian architecture on the banks of the
Danube, two at a time. My first class is Machine Design 302.
      This is one of the most boring subjects which a junior of mechanical
engineering has to endure. I turn in the india ink drawing and settle down
next to Attila Lipcsey.  If I knew about india ink when I applied for
university admission, I would have tried for music school!  - says Attila.
 Good for you! My father rented 50 acres in Kerepes, so we became kulaks
(wealthy peasants, whom the Communists considered as enemies.) We  class
enemies , had no choice. With the X-category stamped in my identity papers, I
was grateful to be admitted anywhere.  I mumble and start reading the sports
paper, which is reporting on yesterday's athletic competition.  Yeah, Varga
took the bronze  - I say out loudly. Vvrvs stops in mid-sentence and some 200
heads turn toward me, so I shut up.
       At lunch time, on the way to the cafeteria, we stop at the scholarship
office. I am lucky, my favorite administrator is there. She is a Communist
party activist or something, but in spite of all that, she is still a good
woman. I tell her that I am penniless and would like to get my November
scholarship.  But this is only the 22nd of October!  - she says.  Yes, but
Agnes and I would like to see this Italian movie, the Women of Selistye and
today is the last day they are showing it! - I plead.  I know that the Women
of Selistye is an Italian movie!  - she says defensively, implying that not
all party secretaries are complete morons. I do not debate the point, just
continue pleading.  You know, Agnes is only 15, for her, seeing this movie is
very important. Besides, the national economy is not going to collapse if I
get my 140 Forint stipend 4 days early. Now, will it?
       She smiles, opens the safe, counts out 140 Forints and as she hands it
over, says:  You know about the meeting in the Aula at 2 PM. Be there, it is
going to be a very important meeting!   An other one of those important ones?
What is it this time? Are we intensifying the fight for peace or reestab
lishing our eternal friendship with Albania? - I ask.  No, this is important!
It is about Poland and Poznan.  Her face is serious, so I shut up and back
out of her office.
       I call Agnes from the cafeteria. She is home for lunch, this is a good
time to call. I can hear that she is jumping up and down while we are talking
on the phone. She wanted to see this movie very badly and now her mouth is
running at twice the speed of her brain. This is good: she is so happy! It
was worth fighting to get the money.  So I will see you at the Bastya movie
house at 4 PM sweetheart?   Yes, sure, definitely, absolutely, certainly and
in addition also assuredly. I will be there even if mini-Gypsies are falling
from the sky!  - she gabbles in her usual calm and understated way.
       During lunch I learn from Men  (his real name is Gyuri Egry and his
nick name  Men   refers to a person who gets to places, a person who is  with
it ), that there was a meeting last Saturday in the city of Szeged where the
students established an independent student organization, the League of
Hungarian University and College Student Associations (abbreviated as MEFESZ
in Hungarian). Men  is also a junior in mechanical engineering, an inch or
two taller than me, he has a long, always smiling horse-face, walks like a
camel (side-to-side), with his toes turned in, he is a basketball player and
a real good friend. During last summer's military training, we both marched
in the front row of our platoon in tennis shoes, because the army did not
have big enough boots for us. (I suspect, that the reason why the Russians
did not occupy Scandinavia was that the Red Army lacked their shoe sizes.)
 Are you coming to this meeting at 2 PM ? - I ask him.  Yeah. It can't hurt
 - he says.  It can hurt me, if I miss the movie at 4 PM. Agnes will never
forgive me!    So what? You leave at 3:30 PM. End of discussion!  -declares
Gyuri the Men , and I agree. (After the Revolution Men  ended up as the
director of a cereal factory in Peru.)
         After lunch, we decide (Attila an I) to visit the  Gellirt
Department.  The mountain of Saint Gellirt is on the banks of the Danube in
the middle of Budapest. Gellirt became a saint when the Hungarians got tired
of listening to the preachings of this Italian priest, and threw him off
these cliffs, some 1000 years ago. I love to walk on this hill, in the middle
of this beautiful city. I understand that the only city with similar beauty
is Rio de Janeiro.
      Attila does not understand why I like to visit the Cliff Chapel, this
church, in one of the caves, and I don't tell him. My Mother, as a teenager,
spent a whole night in this chapel, praying, when she was afraid to go home,
because she was 30 minutes late for her curfew. That tells you something
about my Grandfather, this tough little Austro-Hungarian colonel who in 1915
succeeded in beating the shit out of the Serbs for killing Francis Ferdinand
and right after that, set down to translate Mallarmi, Rimbaud and Verlaine.
+ - Re: Hungary need vision of hope,not more history! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Toth Laci writes:

>>I am surprised how much time Bela Liptak devote to history.

>>But somehow we have lost the sense of excitement or potencial for
>>Hungary's future.Historiens can't provide this for us,but Bela Liptak can!

I would agree with the Toth Laci's letter, but for two things.

1. The fate of of the ethnic hungarians outside Hungary, cannot be ignored.

2. We living outside Hungary, cannot do too much for Hungary's future.
Our advice, if there is any, rightly or wrongly usually ignored. We have
no saying in the affairs of Hungary through voting. Besides sending
money to Hungary, the only thing we can do effectively is lobbying.
(In addition we have more freedom of action, since the hungarian
goverment will always be blamed, (for the same action) for teritorial

+ - Re: millcentenial articles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>        I would like to express my opinion here about 896 AD. In my opinion
>        ( and probably in a few others' ) this was the _second_ 'honfoglalas'
>        . I maintain that the _first_ one was when the Huns came from the
>        East in the V. century.In my opinion we should not separate Huns and
>        Hungarians as different groups.The connection between the two of
>        course only exist(ed) in 'legends' only as there is no written (?)
>        proof of it.We should look at Attila as the first 'honfoglalo',
>        a brilliant leader ( as recently it was expressed in 2 book(lets)
>        by an american author ). He _really_ conquered East & West unlike
>        Alexander the Great,Napoleon,Hitler,Stalin,etc... . I don't want
>        to into this now but we really should shake off the history written
>        and _distorted_ by communist ( and leftist ) 'historians' all over
>        the world.When Arpad came in 896 AD they didn't just miraculously
>        'find' the Carpathian base , they followed an oral history of their
>        forebears.I repeat again as 1996 approaches that we should really
>        face the facts about this.There is nothing to be ashamed about the
>        Huns.I hope some people will understand this.

Arpad entered  the Carpathian basin   in late 895.  The Conquest was a
two-prong one. Some of the tribes, led by Arpad, crossed the Carpathian at
the North-East, other tribes took Transylvania. Certain historian claim
that there were already Hungarians in the area but they do not claim that
they were there when the Huns were in the area in the 5th century. Huns and
Hungarians were not related. They lived thousands of miles apart at the
time. The Hunor and Magor story is nothing but a historical fiction as was
admitted by historian of the Horthy regime (and not the communists). There
is no respectable historian today who subscribe to the Hun-Hungarian

Peter I. Hidas, Montreal

+ - The Paris Peace Conference and Trianon (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Mr. Kristyan claims that,

>The Trianon countries politics about minorities is/was also NOT succesfull.

Well, they were successful enough to regain their former borders after World
War II.

A little bit of correction in translation:

>"buta magyar" (meaning "silly Hungarian")

Slovak kids said of the Hungarian invading forces. The term "silly" is
inaccurate. "Stupid" would be much better.

Mr. Kristyan says:

>I remember the history class in Hungary
> in elementary school. I was told that besides the Hungarian
> government represenrtatives were not asked, were not allowed to attend,
> because they were arrested, etc., BUT they also WERE asked, but silence
> was a mistake. It was told that a little bit bigger "small Hungary"
> was also a plan by the French, but because the "no respond" and
> because the Trianon countries - of course - opposed, this
> plan was dropped.

You don't remember too well. The representatives of the vanquished countries
were not represented at the Paris Peace Conference. There were no German,
Austrian, Hungarian, Bulgarian, or Turkish representatives either at the
conference itself or in Paris. The proceedings of the conference were lead
exclusively by the Great Powers: the United States of America, Great Britain
(and its appendages, like Canada, Australia and South Africa), France, and
Italy. The representatives of the future Little Entente countries
(Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Serbia) didn't take active part in the
proceedings but were present in the French capital and the heads of their
delegations could present their views in front of the representatives of the
Great Powers. But more importantly, they were in Paris during the
negotiations and were often consulted by the committees which were working
out the new borders. Otherwise, the committees used the 1910 Hungarian census
as the basis of their decisions. But, of course, it was not only ethnic
composition which determined the future borders, but military, economic, and
many other, including the fact that Hungary was the vanquished country and
the neighbors were victorious.

The French were the least sympathetic to the Hungarian cause. Both Great
Britain and the United States (especially the latter) originally suggested
borders which had been more advantageous to Hungary. However, as a result of
French opposition, their plans were dropped.

Eva Balogh
+ - On Szendi and Erdey (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

A few words on the exchange between Joe Pannon and myself.

Joe wrote:

>I can imagine such a law suit having merit regardless of his politics.

That's the difference between us. I see no merit in it whatsoever.

On the Freemasons' conspiracy:

>Well, I don't know what to believe.  I just know that you cannot prove
>your position any more than he can his on that one.

True enough but the likelihood of the World Bank and the IMF being under the
thumb of Freemasons, who conspire against Hungarian national interests is
close to zero, in my opinion.


>Wasn't it Zsazsa who said that even bad publicity is better than no

Might be so in Hollywood but hard to imagine the same in Washington.


>Just what do you know about this Szendi guy?  I haven't read his book,
>but I certainly would not jump condemning him based on what some
>organizations (looking for former Nazies under every bed) allege about
>him. The Ivan Demianuk case should have thought us that much!
I haven't read the book either but the Hungarian courts considered it so
imflammatory that they started the prosecution against him for "kozosseg
elleni izgatas [incitement of the public]."

What do I know about him? According to people who know his case better than I
do, Szendi was first prosecuted for denying his membership in a fascist
organization. Then it turned out that Szendi had a direct hand in the arrest
of Endre Bajcsy-Zsilinszky. And finally it came to light that he had a few
killings on his hands as well.

I think the Demianuk case was very different. There the accused man's name
was unknown, or rather the inmates of the concentration camp simply
remembered him as "Ivan the Terrible," and they seemed to have known that he
was Ukrainian. It was most likely a case of mistaken identity and half way
through the affair I was myself very skeptical about it. This seems to me
different. Szendi's name is known and his activities during the war are
known. There is no question that Szendi of today was Szendi of 1944.

Eva Balogh
+ - HUNGARY To von Ghyczy (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Would someone care to define group as opposed to say the set of people who
>dislike eating raw fish?
 This is a way HOW not to understand what everybody understands.
 (I am not talking about you!!!) But authorities who does not want
 to understand what is not advatageous for them, they do talk like this.
   There was a
 whore in the history who made a much more famous sentence/answer:
 Ha nincs kenyer egyenek kalacsot!
 (If no bred, they shoul eat "hot dog buns";- I do not know the official
  translation to English from Franch.)
 And an older one from ancient time :
 A penznek nincs szaga. (Money does not smell.)
                                  von I
+ - Re: millcentenial articles (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The German name of Transylvania is Siebenbuergen.

L.J. Elteto
Portland State University
+ - (sort of) Free cookies! (fwd) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

This message has nothing to do with Hungary, but it is an interesting
story.  Read or delete as you desire.

Paul Gelencser

> > This message is sent to you with the hope you will forward it to
> > EVERYONE you have ever even seen the e-mail address of. In the spirit of th
> > originator,please feel free to post it anywhere and everywhere.
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> >
> > Okay, everyone....a true story of justice in the good old U.S. of A.
> > Thought y'all might enjoy this; if nothing else, it shows internet
> > justice, if it can be called that.
> >
> > My daughter & I had just finished a salad at Neiman-Marcus Cafe
> > in Dallas & decided to have a small dessert.  Because our family are
> > such cookie lovers, we decided to try the "Neiman-Marcus Cookie". It
> > was  so excellent that I asked if they would give me the recipe and they
> > with a small frown, "I'm afraid not."  Well, I said, would you let me buy
> > recipe? With a cute smile, she said, "Yes."  I asked how much, and she
> > responded, "Two fifty." I said with approval, just add it to my tab.
> >
> > Thirty days later, I received my VISA statement from Neiman-Marcus and
> > it was $285.00.  I looked again and I remembered I had only spent $9.95 for
> > two salads and about $20.00 for a scarf.  As I glanced at the bottom of the
> > statement, it said, "Cookie Recipe - $250.00."  Boy, was I upset!! I called
> > Neiman's Accounting Dept. and told them the waitress said it was
> > and I did not realize she meant $250.00 for a cookie recipe.
> >
> > I asked them to take back the recipe and reduce my bill and they
> > said they were sorry, but because all the recipes were this expensive
> > so not just everyone could duplicate any of our bakery recipes....the bill
> > would stand.
> >
> > I waited, thinking of how I could get even or even try and get any of
> > my money back.
> >
> > I just said, "Okay, you folks got my $250.00 and now I'm going
> > to have $250.00 worth of fun." I told her that I was going to see to it
> > that every cookie lover will have a $250.00 cookie recipe from
> > Neiman-Marcus for nothing. She replied, "I wish you wouldn't do this." I
> > said, "I'm sorry but this is the only way I feel I could get even," and I
> > will.
> >
> > So, here it is, and please pass it to someone else or run a few
> > copies....I paid for it; now you can have it for free.
> >
> >                     (Recipe may be halved.):
> >
> >       2  cups butter                     4  cups flower
> >       2  tsp. soda                       2  cups sugar
> >       5  cups blended oatmeal**         24 oz. chocolate chips
> >       2  cups brown sugar                1  tsp. salt
> >       1  8 oz. Hershey Bar (grated)      4  eggs
> >       2  tsp. baking powder              3 cups chopped nuts (your choice)
> >       2  tsp. vanilla
> >
> >         ** measure oatmeal and blend in a blender to a fine powder.
> >             Cream the butter and both sugars.  Add eggs and vanilla;
> >             mix together with flour, oatmeal, salt, baking powder, and
> >             soda. Add chocolate chips, Hershey Bar and nuts.  Roll into
> >             balls and place two inches apart on a cookie sheet.  Bake
> >             for 10 minutes at 375 degrees.  Makes 112 cookies.
> >
> >         Have fun!!!  This is not a joke --- this is a true story..
> >
> >            ************************************************************
> >        That's it. Please, pass it along to everyone you know, single
> >         people, mailing lists, etc.....
> >
> > Ride free, citizen!
> >
+ - To the administrator/moderator (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Some time ago I requested to be removed from this discussion list because I
will be away for a few months.  Still nothing has happened.  Since then I
have seen two other individuals wanting the same.  There is obviously a
need to insert in the header of these messages the correct addresses for
subscribing and unsubscribing from the list.  But, regardless of whether
this suggestion is taken up, could the person responsible for administering
the activities of this list unsubscribe me personally, please, as I am
running out of time.

Thank you.

Charles Bako

Charles Bako                       Coombs Building, Rm. 2208
Philosophy Program,                       ph. (06) 249 2076
Research School of Social Sciences,
Australian National University,
ACT 0200, Australia
+ - Re: Dr. Endrey's politics (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Pannon wrote in reply to Eva Balogh's unjustified, inconsiderate
generalization about the intellectual abilities of "AMOSZ" members:

>Don't rush to judgement because not all of them wake up sleepless
>thinking about the Masons.  I think some of the most selfless Hungarians
>can be found among the older (DP) wave of immigrants.  When it comes to
>a Hungarian cause, these people are far more likely to reach for their
>check book or volunteering than any later wave.  We may not always agree
>with their tactics, but they could almost always ask the rest of us with
>credibility: "What have YOU done for Hungary lately?"

Joe is absolutily right. We may criticize these people for their politics,
but nobody has the right to call them stupid. Most of them are highly
intelligent, strong people. They had a tough life and they survived with
dignity and still fighting for a cause they believe in.

Barna Bozoki
+ - ISO9002 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Do you use electronic components, connectors, solder and other parts
for electronics industry?
Do you need just in time delivery or just a good prices?
Our New Stocking Catalogue is available, listing many new products.

We are ISO 9002 Certified Company, Distributors of Electronic Components

If you have web browser, check out:
or E-mail:  
+ - Re : Moving to Hunagry!!! (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

My father is about to retire early (he is 62) and would like to move
to Hungary as he was born there and has family there.

Please could someone tell me if....

1) It is possible to claim unemployment benefit from Britain while
living in Hungary? How can this be done?

2) What will happen to his state pension when he reaches 65? ie. Will
he be able to get it transferred?

3) How will he transfer money from Britain to Hungary?

4) Does he have to become a Hungarian citizen again?

5) Are there any other things that he should consider?