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Megrendelés Lemondás
1 ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popu (mind)  153 sor     (cikkei)
2 csurka IIto tamas (mind)  41 sor     (cikkei)
3 Re: Eva vs Eva; Socialism (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Romania (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: Bilingual schooling (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
6 The Medium is the Message (mind)  29 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: Romania (fwd) (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: Csurka (to Dini) (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
9 Vindictiveness (was: Measuring the rights?) (mind)  18 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: The Medium is the Message (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
11 Re: Romania (fwd) (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
12 Governor Pataki's support (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
13 The IMF and Hungary (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
14 Comments on Zoltan Szentesi's letter (mind)  81 sor     (cikkei)
15 Csurka, Balogh and 1956 (mind)  52 sor     (cikkei)
16 poetry translation (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Csurka (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Clinton-Iliescu meeting (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
19 "Teflon revolution": Hungary '95 (mind)  82 sor     (cikkei)
20 Csurka and Balogh: A Footnote (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
21 MAGYAROK (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
22 Felhivas (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
23 korozveny (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)

+ - ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popu (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA Titles

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+ - csurka IIto tamas (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>i wrote:
> >who is to blame... and most importantly, who is "without sin" and is fit
> >to throw the first stone
>You wrote
         - well, it is a carefully planted misconception (or let me be less
> polite: a disgusting lie) that basically no one was "without sin", and anybod
> with a halfway decent IQ can tell you who's political interest is to spread
> Actually, I have hard times keeping my temper when I hear it.  (But I'm still
> trying :-))  If someone told me that there were *too many* informants, colla-
> borators, etc. and you shouldn't expose Hungarian society to this shock,
> I would disagree, but at least this is something I would be willing to
> discuss.  --  Please check East Germany, which took the opposite route.
what i meant by my comment was NOT that there are no hungarians that are
free from from blame, but that i
simply do not trust those members of hungarian society who are willing to do
the "blaming". of course there were many people  who
remained true to thier ideals (pl.most of my family who still today live in
hungary) BUT, the hatred and radicalism that has historically  divided
hungary, has also  prevented it from becoming a true democracy. what you
are suggesting, my friend, is a law that would
further polarize a country already suffering from detrimental extremes.
moreover, what csurka wants is not a country free from
"traitors to totalitarianism" but his own version of a totalitarianism of
right. its too bad, what hungary needs most is unity not based on
chauvinism and anger, but on democracy and a bit of forgiveness.I
know that it is easy for me to speak of forgiveness (for i have never
lived in hungary for
 longer than a  ten month period),but you dont have to be a hungarian
citizen to see the countries that have crumbled as a result of their
extremeism. (pl. the former yugoslavia)

though there are many hungarians
that deserve to be punished, and some even put to death, i dont
believe persuing such an endevour would benifit the
country at this time.and I KNOW that giving csurka power would only
further aggravate the already terrible situation that hungary is in today.
dini metro-roland.
+ - Re: Eva vs Eva; Socialism (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> The idea is simple.  Neuclear families create a Self.  Ego.  Egoism.
> Self-ishness.  To foster an identification with the larger group --be
> it kibbutzim or the proletaruate ideal of society as a whole
> --requires the breakdown of the nuclear family.

You have to have self, ego and some selfishness in any society.
Whatever the family structure.
The point is to realise, that the needs of a sizable
majority  are not best met if at all in the present one.

> Such a breakdown was never undertaken by the Marxist Empire.  In fact,
> the Russian Empire was hardly Marxist at all.  The nuclear family was
> idealized.

I agree.

+ - Re: Romania (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)


Thanks for the explanation which I read with interest.  I wonder how
many other Americans or Westerners do what you did.  But still you left
me dangling about the original reason you went to Hungary to study the
language.  Why Hungary of all places?

>I still encourage people to contact Igloi Zoltan at the address I gave
>the list if you are at all interested, no matter the language (English,
>Magyar, Romaneste).

I guess I would be a good candidate as a former Pecs resident who was
sort of "adapted" by the Romanians in soc.culture.romanian.  So much so,
that they even gave me a Romanian name: "Panonescu".  Well, I am
thinking ... ;-)

Thanks again,
Joe Pannon
+ - Re: Bilingual schooling (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>hungarian bilingual schools Slovak was instructed in history, geography,
>Slovak as a second language and literature, singing and phys. education,
>however the Slovak language was taught in only a couple of Gymnaziums
>and only as a second language, with Hungarian as the primary language.

That may have to do with the amount of demand for it.  I haven't heard a
big cry for Slovak language education in Hungary, except from Slovaks
outside of Hungary.  This is in sharp contrast to the how Hungarian
minorities relate to the question in Slovakia or Romania.

Joe Pannon
+ - The Medium is the Message (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The invasion of the HUNGARY list by aging, syntactically challenged
skinheads is well underway.  Today we have another one crawling out
from under his rock, with an opening paragraph that puts Dr Pellionisz
to shame in sheer opacity and syntactic convolution:

> I was not surprised to read Miss Balogh's smoke screen.  In the futile
> effort to drag her points through, she is not refraining herself of a
> little character assassination  aimed at her disparate adversaries. But
> let's catechize what I am writing about....

> .... If I am not consigning anymore crimes against her intelligence with
> my beclouded English logic, I would like to take the liberty, to abide
> my reasonings, whatever algetic it might be for a super perspicacious
> member of our digital media "Hungary" like Miss Balogh!


Until now, Dr Pellionisz was the undisputed owner of the Humboldt Prize
for Opacity, Obfuscation and Tortured Syntax.  Now, for the first time,
he has a serious rival for the title.  Dr P, in the red corner, is still
holding on to a narrow lead in the number of CAPITALIZED words used per
malformed sentence.  But his lead is narrowing by the minute.  Will he
recover his lead?  Or will the challenger overtake him?  Will it be a
knock-down, drag-out fight?  Will Dr Pellionisz wilt in the final round?
Tune in tomorrow to find out.  Same time, same bat channel.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Re: Romania (fwd) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Forget my follow-up letter I just sent out.  I see you just answered it
a few articles later.

Thanks again,
+ - Re: Csurka (to Dini) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>same laws he wanted to enact.  Now his opponents (in this case most of the
>Hungarian Parliament) in their infinite wisdom refused to pass this law,
>even in a watered-down version.  They know it, why.  (And I think I know
>it too but I keep this knowledge to myself.)

That was an excellent analysys, Tamas, to which I also subscribe.  I
wonder how many people could or would have refused to sign under the
same circumstances Csurka was in.  But the main thing is that no one
ever proved that he actually did deliver on that signature.  On the
other hand, his biggest accusers have never submitted themselves to the
kind of scritiny Csurka was subjected to.  But enough of this because
I don't want this issue split up yet another discussion list.
Especially since I am not really a fan of Csurka.

>        - well, it is a carefully planted misconception (or let me be less
>polite: a disgusting lie) that basically no one was "without sin", and anybody
>with a halfway decent IQ can tell you who's political interest is to spread it
>Actually, I have hard times keeping my temper when I hear it.  (But I'm still

Same here!  I used to live in a small town where almost everybody knew
everybody else and we also knew who the few collaborators were.  And I
don't mean collaborators who just went through the motions so they are
left alone in a fairly decent standard of living, but the ones who made
the lives of others deliberately miserable.  Most people knew who these
were in their immediate environment.  What bothers the sense of justice
of the majority is that the same people were allowed to stay on the top
and convert their political power to even greater economic power.
Any wonder people are letargic and cynical about the whole transition?

Joe Pannon
+ - Vindictiveness (was: Measuring the rights?) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Lajos (Lajcsi) Pagony wrote to NPA:

>Peterke, are you really engaging yourself into a discussion with
>a lunatic spider?

What is this?  Do you need to drag your feud with Eva from FORUM to
here?  I never liked it when people did it with me and I certainly don't
like it with anybody else.  Many, if not most, people on this list don't
know the history of such feuds and are thus not in a position to judge
who is right and who is wrong.  Besides, this list has always been the
forum for more tempered and scholarly discussions than the Hungarian
language FORUM and let's keep it that way.

I am especially disappointed to see such vindictiveness exhibited by a
man of your culture and age, Lajcsi!  Ease up a bit, for crying out
loud, and don't let your big EGO get the best out of you!

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: The Medium is the Message (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

What I'd be interested in knowing, perhaps from people who read regularly
the FORUM and/or SZALON lists, is:  what are Messrs Pellionisz and Nemenyi
like when they write in Magyar language?  And, if their style in English
is a reflection of their style in Magyarul, what literary/journalistic
tradition is it rooted in?  Or is it their unique discovery?


Hugh Agnew

+ - Re: Romania (fwd) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> I grew up under the Reagan years thinking I would
> : probably die on a field invading Eastern Europe and then watching a
> : neutron bomb go up and saying my prayers in the remaining seconds.
> You grew up in the Soviet Union?
> --Greg Grose
NOt fair Greg :-)
 Would WE have stopped at repelling a Soviet invasion at the East-West
border? I should revise, I would have bought it in Germany more than
likely. REmember, I was in my early teens. Perfect understanding of what
would have happened militarily was a few years off.

+ - Governor Pataki's support (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Colleagues,

Governor Pataki has sent a very forceful letter to President Clinton,
concerning the Iliescu visit and the cultural autonomy of the indigenous
Hungarian population in Romania. He has spoken up as a member of the 262,000
Hungarian-American community in New York State and the 1.8 million (his
number, the 1990 census listed 1.64) in the USA. It took polical courage for
him to do this, because there will be many, who will say, that he should mind
the business of New York State, that he should concentrate on the welfare of
the people who elected him.

It is for this reason that I ask our Jewish friends, the International Roma
Federation, the Unitarian and Babtist church groups, and all NON-HUNGARIAN
individuals, who supported our recent effort, to write to Governor Pataki,
and assure him, that non-Hungarians also approve of what he has done. That
even the busy governor of New York can afford to send such a letter now and
then, not only, because one such letter has more weight than 1 million from
the oppressed minorities of Romania, but also because it generates goodwill
for the State of New York, from a part of the world, which in 10 years, can
grow not only into the best business partner of the state, but also into the
Switzerland of Central Europe, the gateway to the East.

We thank all our non-Hungarian friends for caring about the cultural autonomy
of the indigenous Hungarian population of Romania, and ask them to send a
brief note of thanks and support to the Governor's Mansion in Albany.

With best regards: Bela Liptak
+ - The IMF and Hungary (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In the last couple of weeks I have been looking forward to my mail with even
greater anticipation than usual: I am waiting for another gem from Gabor
Fencsik. I normally print out his writings and distribute them among my
fellow workers in the office. The reaction is always the same: an
appreciation of his sardonic sense of humor and his cleverness with words.

Mr. Fencsik wrote in Hungary #443:

>Dr Pellionisz will be happy to hear that, as far as the IMF is concerned,
>his wish has just been granted.  It is a story almost too beautiful to
>be true.  A scene to warm the heart of all true patriots.  The IMF
>delegation sent to Budapest to negotiate a $300M standby credit facility
>has just left the country in a huff.  Gone home, in a manner of speaking.
>They felt the Hungarian side was not serious, so they up and left.  Just
>like that.  Problem solved.  We really showed them this time.

Let me add a few prosaic remarks to this nice little piece. Yes, the IMF was
not impressed with the Hungarians, especially after Tamas Suchman, Horn's
favorite new minister for privatization, didn't even bother to show up at the
appointed time. Didn't bother to phone either. The IMF delegation sat around
the conference table and waited and waited and waited--for a whole hour. Our
"gentleman" apologized later--well, you know, all those pressing issues
concerning "speedy" privatization couldn't be postponed! Not even for an
hour! The Hungarian negotiators obviously didn't read Dale Carnegie's *How to
Win Friends and Influence People.* And what really surprised me that some of
our fellow Hungarians on the Internet are so unsophisticated in diplomatic
matters that they applauded Suchman's behavior! This kind of attitude will do
great harm to Hungary.

Eva Balogh
+ - Comments on Zoltan Szentesi's letter (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I enjoyed Zoltan Szentesi's writing from the Mihaly Pollack Technical School
in Pecs.

He wrote:

>They [meaning the government] expect people to work on their own in their
>businesses, but the country has no money to support this mission; the
>interests are high (30-38%) and very difficoult to obtain from the

First of all, I would like to mention that the interest rates are high
because of the high inflation rate. Some people in Hungary don't seem to be
aware that there is a link between the two. As long as the inflation rate is
close to 30 percent, you cannot lend money with lower interest rate than the
rate of inflation.

>Nowadays the government wants to decrease ist spending, so it wants
>to close hospitals, primary schools, and wants studentn to pay at
>universities almost as much as one of the parents earn monthly.

The proposed tuition is actually very low: 2,000 Ft./month. So, the above is
an exaggeration. $1.00 = 135 Ft.

>Taxes are also very high.

Yes, taxes are too high and they may climb higher after the Constitutional
Court announced parts of the austerity program unconstitutional.

> I think most of the people are not contented.

Understatement of the year! They have not been contented for a very long
time. They were not contented under the former government either.

>They hardly have the money to live, so how should they spend on culture?

Well, culture will have to be put on the back burner.

>They try to live taking advantages of the black-
>economy: after the official 8-hour working they work another 4-6
>hours to get more money. For those who can work after the 8-hour work
>at firms life is much easier.

Nothing new in that. They have been doing the same for decades!

>People are often afraid of being fired due to privatization or a new
>order from the government which may ruin the firm they  work for.

Why would privatization ruin the firm? Wouldn't it be stupid of the new owner
to spend quite a bit of money on purchasing the company and then sit down and
ruin it? In my humble opinion, the companies which are still in limbo--that
is, still waiting for privatization--are in the danger of total collapse.

>Hungary needs educated personel to suck western finance. We also have
>cheap labour.

And here we come to the most important part of the letter. Gabor Fencsik
already commented on it but let me add a couple of things.

(1) This is the first time that a Hungarian from Hungary admited that there
is a shortage of capable personnel to run this new economic and political
show. In fact, our fellow Hungarians in Hungary are certain that they know
everything better than anyone else, be that Western European, Eastern
European, American, Canadian, or Australian. They are better educated; they
are more capable; and they don't need either advice or personnel. Of course,
it is difficult to answer the question: how is it possible that with such a
talented personnel the country is still doing so poorly?

(2) Oh, yes, the cheap labor. As Gabor Fencsik pointed out: not so terribly
cheap because of low productivity. There was a very interesting article about
a month ago in the New York Times about a private business venture of
semi-assembled Ikarusz busses exported to the United States. It turned out
that while in the United States the same bus is assembled in 900 hours, in
Hungary it is close to 1,400 hours. The owners and the managers are trying to
raise productivity and hoping that they could push down this figure, if all
goes well, to 1,200 hours! Also, medical insurance and pension contributions,
paid by the employer, are over 50% of the employees' salary. What Hungarians
must realize that there are other countries where labor is much, much

Eva Balogh
+ - Csurka, Balogh and 1956 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Let me quote what the Internet "Hirmondo" had to say about the speech of Mr.
Csurka on the basis of Magyar Hirlap:

>Csurka lazadasra szolitott fel (MH)
>A Kadar-rendszer finomitott - tobbpartrendszeres - valtozataban elunk,
>de a helyzet megerett a valtoztatasra, ezert oktober 23-an az utcara
>kell menni a bukasra itelt hatalom ellen - mondta szombaton este Sumegen
>tartott nagygyulesen Csurka Istvan.
>A MIEP elnoke kijelentette:  "Minden perc, amit belenyugvassal toltunk,
>a karunkra van, mert szeduletes naivitas azt hinni, hogy 1998-ban majd
>mi jovunk, ugyanis ez a megfelemlitett es megalazott nep nem szavaz a
>szethuzo es anyagilag tonkretett ellenzeki partokra."
>Csurka szerint mar csak egyetlen megoldas lehetseges:  a polgari
>engedetlenseg, a lazadas, a tuntetes!  Eppen ezert mar oktober 22-ere a
>Kossuth terre szolitja a nemzetet, ugyanis megitelese szerint az 1956-os
>esemenyekhez hasonlo gyokeres valtoztatasokra van szukseg.  Hozzatette:
>az oktober 22-ei lazado es tunteto menetelesuket csupan a
>rendszervaltoztato akciosorozatuk elso aktusanak szanjak.

Csurka finds it "incredible naivete" to believe that "it will be our turn in
1998" [meaning the extreme right will win the next elections] because the
population is frightened and humiliated and the opposition parties are
divided and financially ruined. To me that means that by democratic means, at
the ballot box, the current government will not be voted out of power. Hence,
"the only solution: civil disobedience, rebellion, demonstration! He used the
word "lazadas" and I already quoted the Hungarian dictionary which clearly
says that the word normally implies "using arms to topple a regime." But
let's not quibble over words. The fact is that Mr. Csurka discards the
democratic means open to him at the 1998 elections for civil disobedience,
rebellion and demonstration. That's enough for me!

And finally, NPA seems to be upset that I mentioned that I didn't understand
some of his sentences. I still don't. For example, what does this mean?

>I do not have the faintest
>idea, why the heck are you bent out of shape, by a pending public gathering,
>which is a way of expressing large scale public utterance? And again, you
>are divulging about revolution.


>If the masses are unhappy with the current situation, than cohering to the
>decrees of the democracy,

NPA and his friends pile insult upon insult on others but they get terribly
upset if the other side points out some of their well established
shortcomings--like their practically incomprehensible English sentences.

Eva Balogh
+ - poetry translation (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Sorry to bother everyone on the list, but in the hope that someone is a
historian of early Hungarian literature and/or poetry translator, here
are two lines I'd be grateful to have explained in English.  I'm not
expecting really a POETIC translation,  just a prose explanation.
Second, they are not lines from the poems but acrostics, that is they are
formed by the first and last letters of the poems.  A husband (Petroczy
Istvan) enclosed the poem in a letter to his wife (Revay Erzsebet) in
1692 with this acrostic:

        Petroczi Istvan kuldgje Revai Ersebetnek

and she answered with the following acrostic:

        Revai Ersebet vigastalja o haitassal tellyes urat.

I think I know what they say but wonder if there are nuances I could miss.

Thanks for any and every response!

Norma Rudinsky   
+ - Re: Csurka (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I take Joe Pannon's word that he is no fan of Csurka, and respect
his wish not to start another flame war over him.  But there is
one point I still cannot let pass without comment.  In discussing
Csurka's agreement (signed under duress) to serve as an informer
for the Communist police authorities,  Joe says:

> I wonder how many people could or would have refused to sign under
> the same circumstances Csurka was in.

The circumstances in his case were internment and interrogation, but no
torture and no beatings.  Many people were subjected to far worse, and
still behaved honorably.  Mr Antall did.  Istvan Eorsi did.  Istvan
Angyal did.  Mr Goncz did.  Bela Szasz did.  Istvan Bibo did.  Mr Gimes
and Mr Vasarhelyi did.  Many of these people were just as young and
inexperienced as Csurka was at the time.  Some behaved despicably
under the circumstances, and some did not.

Gabor Fencsik

+ - Re: Clinton-Iliescu meeting (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tom Angi ) wrote:
: Good work everyone!
: s

        I can second that ! Although I am living in Australia through the
        Internet I saw that there are some people in the US who do some-
        thing about our Hungarian brothers in Transylvania.Keep up the good
        work.   "Nem ! Nem ! Soha !"

                                Csaba Harangozo
+ - "Teflon revolution": Hungary '95 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I never imagined there will be SO MUCH parallel between the two! For
one thing, somebody (after his crushing defeat in central issues) raises
(seemingly in "tongue-in-cheek") that "Russians go home! [Tanks go home!]"
of '56 succeeded much harder than "Banks go home!" of '95, as IMF-nego-
tiations already broke off and negotiators packed up and left a few days

This is EXACTLY what happened to Russian tanks in '56. Once Hungarian
Freedom Fighters set no more than a handful of tanks on fire, by means of
their primitive "Molotov cocktails" [bottles filled with gasoline with a
rag-stopper set on fire as a burning fuse], after two days of skirmishes
Soviet tanks were all withdrawn FROM BUDAPEST. "Victory at Last???"
Far from it! We all know better! Mr. Fencsik is not such a fool as he
pretends to be (by mistaking Dr. Pellionisz for Dr. Endrey, or confusing
"victory" with "tactical retreat").

A few dozen of Soviet tanks withdrew to the outskirts of the Capital for a
few days - ONLY TO RETURN AS 16 TANK DIVISIONS (after a huge invasion of
Hungary) on the 4th of November. Fencsix and Comp. not only know fully
well that Hungary's "(financial) Freedom Fight with IMF" hasn't yet
succeded, but it hasn't even started yet in earnest! They know that IMF
never left (the debt, UNFORTUNATELY, hasn't been abandoned by a few IMF
experts' demonstrative departure any more than withdrawal of tanks from
the streets of Budapest did not mean that the Soviets abandoned Hungary
as their occupied territory). IMF never really left, and will be "back",
as Fencsix & Comp. (more precisely; Mr. Fencsik and Balogh, even more
precisely the SZDSZ under Mr. Peto Sr.' leadership) WANT THEM BACK and
CALL THEM BACK. You'll see.

Another eery similarity is the "painting the devil on the wall" both in
Unless Ms. Balogh can prove her accusation that ANYONE in '95 is "calling
to arms" she is not at all the trustworthy historian as Mr. Hidas would
like to see her, but is a PROVEN LIER. Gero lied when he accused peace-
ful demonstrators in '56 that their protest was "nationalistic in its
character", Ms. Balogh lies that anyone issued a "call to arms" in '95
until she can prove her patently false accusation. I find it either plain
stupid or a blatant provocation that Mr. Hidas, in trying to "defend"
Ms. Balogh (e.g. by confusing my "challenge of her accusation in '95"
with a "call to arms in '56") uses the same code word "fascists" as
Mr. Gero used in '56 in a vain attempt to discredit masses protesting
against a morbid system the people find utterly distrustful and that people
wish to reject. Why is Mr. Hidas using the "F-word" in '95? Did he not
learn that Mr. Gero's use of the "F-word" ["fasisztazas"] triggered a
massive revolution in 56 from a peaceful demonstration? Or does Mr. Hidas
want EXACTLY THE SAME NOW -- provoking the masses to go beyond a line
such that unmasked use of the brutality of their side be justified?

Mr. Hidas gets on the high horse of how "democratic" the present system
of government in Hungary is, thus it can only be demoted by elections or
if it loses the peoples' trust!  If he is so "democratic", why does he
resort to the F-word ("fasisztazas") ?? Does he not know that the "gang"
he addresses by the "F-word" is a PARTY, a lawfully existing political
party in Hungary?  Does Mr. Hidas NOT KNOW that "fascist" parties are
strictly forbidden (by international regulations) in present day Hungary,
thus the party would NOT EXIST if it were "neo-fascist"?

Clearly, BIG LIES of Ms. Balogh about "call to arms", and inflammatory
phrases such as accusing ANYONE with "fascism", are the methods of Mr. Geros
of '56 and those in '95 who wish to provoke the masses to cross the borders
of legality.

and is COMPLETELY LEGAL if you declare "moratorium" to IMF-debt as long as
the Dr. Endrey type lawsuits are pending [that is, forever, since IMF
WILL FALL but will not fall soon]! Dr. Endrey has done the filing. That
old couragious gentleman, in fact an elderly statesman who showed the
Young something about dignity, lawfulness, wisdom (what some call these
days "senility") stuck up his neck for ALL Hungarians, whether of Gypsy or
Jewish in descent, or Whatever. Now ALL you need is to close your purses,
refuse to bleed to your deaths, and refuse all the "F-words" of the World,
all the "call to arm" lies, stick to you. Remember the "velvet revolution"
government out of existence without waiting years for an election, yet
without resorting to either violence or unlawful acts.  Theirs was the
"velvet revolution", ours will be the completely legal "teflon revolution"
that will reject to be spoiled by all the filth around us. "Just say NO".
Just refuse to pay, just reject the filth thrown at you; "back to the sender".


This will be the DIFFERENCE of '56 and '95.
+ - Csurka and Balogh: A Footnote (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Tamas Toth mentioned:

>Csurka took part in the 56 Revolution, on the
>same side as Ms. Balogh, i.e. the revolutionaries side.  (I was mentioning
>Eva for two reasons.  First, to indicate how messy things got in Hungary in
>the last 40 years: you could have started anywhere and ended up anywhere.

Yes. Csurka is two years older than I am and for the information of those who
might not be familiar with him he is a writer by profession. He began
publishing at the age of twenty in 1954, mostly short stories which appeared
in a volume published before the revolution. After the revolution he
published his first novel. In 1959. So, although he was arrested after 1956
he didn't spend much time in jail, and his career didn't greatly suffer.
Later he became best known not so much as a novelist but as a playwright. He
became politically active in the second half of the 1980s within the MDF
(Magyar Demokrata Forum) from where he was later ousted because of his right
radical and antisemitic views.

Tamas says that "you could have started anywhere and ended up anywhere." How
true. I ended up in a democratic country and I spent my adulthood in a
democratic society. Mr. Csurka didn't. One is not born as a democrat; one
learn the rules of democracy. But surely there are other reasons as well:
temperament and family tradition most likely play a part.

And one more thing. Tamas says:

>Second, because I think that on a personal level  --  not in peer-reviewed
>science  --  he has just as much right, NO MORE, NO LESS, to interpret
>"his 56").

Yes, on a personal level! The emphasis is on the personal. But Mr. Csurka is
a politician, who speaks, through the media, to the whole country. Therefore,
his interpretation of 1956 is not a personal matter! Much less so than my
personal opinion of 1956, which I believe, is a bit closer to the truth than
Mr. Csurka's. If for no other reason but for my training in history.

Eva Balogh
+ - MAGYAROK (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Szeretnek beszelni Magyarokkal bar honnan minden erdekel kivetel a
Politika 1965 be jottem el es itt elek Las vegas Nev USA
                  Frank Benyak
+ - Felhivas (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kedves olvaso!
Kerem ne csodalkozzon, hogy kap egy uzenetet, hogy on megrendelte
a METPRESS internet hirugynokseg szolgaltatasait.
Az eddiig mar megszokott szolgaltatasokban kisebb valtoztatasokat tervezunk,
ennek resze, hogy onoket regisztraltuk a METPRESS internet hirugynokseg
terjesztoi listajan. Varhato ,hogy idovel a MET-OHAZ illetve a MET-tozs
ujsagok terjesztese is innen a METPRESS cimrol erkezik.
udvozlettel a KIADO Dr ORCZAN Zsolt
+ - korozveny (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kedves Olvasok!

Kerjuk allitsak be a Topics ertekeket

kuldjenek levelet a  cimre

a level tartalma :

SET METPRESS TOPICS: es itt fel kell sorolni,hogy milyen tudositasok erdeklik
a Kovetkezo topics ok kozul valsztahatnak :

gazdasag, politika, kultura, tudomany, sport
economics, politics, culture, sciens, sports ezek angol nyelvuek

ha nem alltanak be semmit akkor mindent meg fognak kapni

udv a kiado