(Marcel Bigger) writes:

 (Yigit kavurmacioglu) wrote:

>>I have serious problem of understanding the logic of previous lines. This kin
d 
>>of mind set feeds these and other kinds of terrorist acts. Every reasonable 
>>person should understand and act in a way that there is no "good " terrorism 
, 
>>today or tomorrow everybody will suffer and most importantly human rights 
>>should be for humans not for any kind of terrorists.

>The term "terrorism" is IMHO a meaningless one. It does not describe
>anything specific. Let me take a try at a good definition. What is


Wonder of your IMHO would change if yer mum were blown up while
she was walking in some mall because some asshole wanted to make a point
about America's role in the Middle East talks.

Tonalamatl/Sat. Jul 20, 1996

    Today is the 202th day of 1996 with 164 remaining.
    The moon is a waxing crescent, moving towards its first quarter. (06)
    The morning stars are Venus, Mars, Saturn.
    The evening stars are Mercury, Jupiter.
    Those born on this date are under the sign of Cancer.

Maya Long Count: 12. 19. 3. 6. 2.  LAHCA-Ik HO Xul
Mexica: MACTLACTLI-Tecpatl. MACTLACTLIOME-Ehecatl Quecholli NAHUI
Otomi  Quenza: 10-Aneyaxi. Mapa: 12-Amadahi. Cana: Antzhoni 4
Purepecha: TEMBEN-Tzhinapu. TEMBENTZIMAN-Tarhiyata. Caheri Uapanscuaro TAMU
Zapotec Yza: 7-Pija. Chij: 12-Laa. Cocijo: 1-Loo. Cocij: 1-Loo.
    Sabado 20 de Julio de 1996
Today is the Saint's Day for Margarita, Jeronimo, Bulmaro, Divino Redentor

490 Years Ago, in 1506:
    [Day 10-Ehecatl Year 1-Tochtli] An eclipse of the sun is followed
    by an earthquake in the Anahuac Valley.

475 Years Ago, in 1521:
    [Day 3-Cipactli Year 3-Calli] Second Invasion to Tenochtitlan. Hernan
    Cortes and his troops enter Tenochtitlan and begin its house by house
    destruction.

Just look at what those nasty Europeans did to our Mongolian brothers, exactly
475 years ago!

Gabor
aka. Bird Jaguar, Lord of the Mayas at Yaxchilan

Steven C. Scheer > wrote:

>e-mail campaign "against" NBC Sports, letting them know
>in no uncertain terms that by callously cutting certain
>of the nations out of the Parade of Nations they have betrayed
>the very spirit of the games they were trying to project and
>to promote. By cutting some, they have in effect undermined
>the integrity of the whole . . . 

Why are you surprised?  American networks always concentrated their
coverage on American athletes and used to cover others only as fillers.
I think we'll only see non-American athletes when they are competing
against Americans.  Thanks to that, we just witnessed Krisztina
Egerszegi's slip to the third place in the 400m "valtouszas".

Joe

In article >,
Maria Egorov > wrote:
>GO TO: ARE THE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Version 3)

I would certainly hope so...just think what a great line that would be:
"Hi, I'm a Mongolian."
Imagine the confusion and chaos when people see me introduce myself as a 
Mongolian. Sheer pandemonium.
I think this would be a great line to meet chicks. I'll let y'all
know of the results in the following weeks. Stay tuned!

Gabor
aka. Bird Jaguar, Lord of the Mayas at Yaxchilan

P.S. Hey, Maria, I think the Mayans, Aztecs and Incas were of Mongolian origin,
too! (So were the Mixtecs, Zapotecs, Toltecs, Olmecs, and Guaranis, I guess.)
So, actually, Hungarians have a right to all of the American continent, due to
our proud Mongolian origins. Just imagine, Maria, all those Mongolians living 
1,000 years ago from the Strait of Magellan to Alaska, and from the China Sea
to Cape Roca. Now I know why I like Mexico so much...a genetic connection, if 
you will.

[===========================================================]
    [  On July 6/96 in >   ]
    [   (Maria Egorov) declared:             ]
    [  |...the Nobel Prize Winners you prezented to us are all  ]
    [  |nonHungarians.(Look Britanica,There are no Hungarin     ]
    [  |Nobel Prize Winners.) They were Germans ,Slavs or Jews. ]
    [===========================================================]

First intervention:
  
  [===============================================================]
  [ On July 6/96  (Liviu Iordache) quoted  ]
  [ from the Britannica:                                          ]
  [ |Wigner, Eugene Paul, Hungarian JENO PAL WIGNER (b. Nov. 17,  ]
  [ |1902, Budapest, Hung.--d. Jan. 1, 1995, Princeton, NJ US)    ]
  [ |Hungarian-born American physicist, joint winner with J. Hans ]
  [ |D. Jensen of West Germany and Maria Goeppert Mayer of the    ]
  [ |United States of the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1963. He     ]
  [ |received the prize for his many contributions to . . .       ]
  [ |                                                             ]
  [ |Olah, George A. in full GEORGE ANDREW OLAH (b. May 22, 1927, ]
  [ |Budapest, Hung.) Hungarian-American chemist who won the 1994 ]
  [ |Nobel Prize in Chemistry for work conducted in the early     ]
  [ |1960s that isolated carbocations...                          ]
  [===============================================================]

The next day:

   [============================================================]
   [ On July 7/96  (Maria Egorov) declared:  ]
   [ |In the list of the so called Hungarian scientists you     ]
   [ |included Austrians like Robert Barany, Richard Zsiymondy, ]
   [ |etc. The rest of the scientists presented by you are Jews ]
   [ |and Slavs. Many of them having their names magyarized.    ]
   [============================================================]

OK Ms., we have EUGENE PAUL WIGNER and GEORGE A OLAH, both recipients of the
Nobel prize. These two men are "nonHungarians" as you claim. Now could you
tell us which one of these two are Jews and/or Slavs who had their names
Magyarized? Support your claim, or else admit that your posting was
thoughtless and malicious. The ball is in your court Ms Egorov.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

[===========================================================]
    [  On July 6/96 in >   ]
    [   (Maria Egorov) declared:             ]
    [  |...the Nobel Prize Winners you prezented to us are all  ]
    [  |nonHungarians.(Look Britanica,There are no Hungarin     ]
    [  |Nobel Prize Winners.) They were Germans ,Slavs or Jews. ]
    [===========================================================]

First intervention:
  
  [===============================================================]
  [ On July 6/96  (Liviu Iordache) quoted  ]
  [ from the Britannica:                                          ]
  [ |Wigner, Eugene Paul, Hungarian JENO PAL WIGNER (b. Nov. 17,  ]
  [ |1902, Budapest, Hung.--d. Jan. 1, 1995, Princeton, NJ US)    ]
  [ |Hungarian-born American physicist, joint winner with J. Hans ]
  [ |D. Jensen of West Germany and Maria Goeppert Mayer of the    ]
  [ |United States of the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1963. He     ]
  [ |received the prize for his many contributions to . . .       ]
  [ |                                                             ]
  [ |Olah, George A. in full GEORGE ANDREW OLAH (b. May 22, 1927, ]
  [ |Budapest, Hung.) Hungarian-American chemist who won the 1994 ]
  [ |Nobel Prize in Chemistry for work conducted in the early     ]
  [ |1960s that isolated carbocations...                          ]
  [===============================================================]

The next day:

   [============================================================]
   [ On July 7/96  (Maria Egorov) declared:  ]
   [ |In the list of the so called Hungarian scientists you     ]
   [ |included Austrians like Robert Barany, Richard Zsiymondy, ]
   [ |etc. The rest of the scientists presented by you are Jews ]
   [ |and Slavs. Many of them having their names magyarized.    ]
   [============================================================]

I query:

[===================================================================]
[  On July 8/96 in >               ]
[   (Wally Keeler) wrote:                          ]
[  |Being born in Hungary's capital city confers no Hungarianness   ]
[  |upon a person? Growing up within Hungary, within the Hungarian  ]
[  |language, within the Hungarian culture, within the Hungarian    ]
[  |educational system confers no Hungarianness upon a person? In   ]
[  |spite of this Wigner and Olah cannot be regarded as Hungarians  ]
[  |or should be regarded as "nonHungarians" as you put it? Please  ]
[  |explain Maria Egorov. Please do.                                ]
[===================================================================]

Can you cite any publication in which Wigner or Olah had ever denied their
Hungarianness? Is there any proof ANYWHERE that Wigner or Olah covered-up
their Hungarianness? Support your claim, or else admit that your posting was
thoughtless and malicious. The ball is in your court Ms Egorov.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

[============================================================]
   [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
   [ |do you think Albert Einstein after arriving in United     ]
   [ |States, started to yell "I am a German"?.NOT AT ALL.      ]
   [============================================================]

[====================================================================]
[ On July 11/96 in >               ]
[  (Wally Keeler) replied:                          ]
[ |I don't think he was yelling any message. I'm a fifth generation  ]
[ |Canadian and I've never yelled - "I am a Canadian." NOT AT ALL.   ]
[ |Do you yell out your nationality or ethnicity. The salient point  ]
[ |is that Albert never <denied> his roots.                          ]
[====================================================================]

             Do you have any proof whatsoever that Albert 
             Einstein had ever denied his Germanness?

             Support your claim, or else admit that your 
             posting was thoughtless and malicious. The 
             ball is in your court Ms Egorov.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Charles M. Vamossy ) writes:
> In > "Andras"
> > writes: 
>>While I was watching the olympic march of athletes, I got more and
> more
>>anxious as Hungary was to take the walk around the track.  Just as
> Hungary
>>was to be introduced, the coverage broke away to a NBC interview with
>>Charles Barkley.  When the coverage continued, NBC had skipped
> coverage of
>>Hungary and went right to Iceland. I feel that this was a slap in the
>>Andras W, Vancsa
> 
> I just wrote the following letter to NBC Sports:
> 
> As one of the two million Hungarian-Americans who were 
> enthusiastically awaiting the appearance of the Hungarian 
> Olympic Team in Atlanta, I want to express my deepest 
> disappointment that NBC chose to cut away from the 
> coverage and chose not to show their entry into the stadium.
> 
> It comes, of course, as no surprise, since NBC has 
> purchased the exclusive rights to broadcast the event  

I saw the entry of the Hungarian team in Canada via CBC's coverage.
However, there were commercial breakways from time to time and other
national groups in Canada were slighted. In the Toronto area we are
fortunate enough to have the best/worst of both worlds -- NBC & CBC. What
about Hungary -- were the people in Hungary able to see the entry of their
team?

> I can perhaps best express my outrage by boycotting the  
> products that sponsor NBC's coverage and urge my fellow 
> Hungarian Americans to do the same.   Perhaps members of 
> other ethnic groups you have insulted by either cutting 
> their coverage or by making uniformed and disparaging 
> remarks about them will also follow suit.


For what it is worth, the CBC did comment on the Hungarian team, but not
in any disparaging way. In the Globe & Mail they listed the top ten
winners of medals during the entire history of the modern Olympics --
Hungary was 8th. Quite an accomplishment for a puddle of people in the world
of other huge seas of nationalities. Congratulations!

On Friday, July 26 at 11:30pm, TVO, Ontario's public, commercial free
television, will show "Stranger Than Paradise".  The film is listed as
a 1984 comedy-drama staring John Lurie and Eszter Balint.  It's a low
budget black and white film in which Brooklyn lowlife Willie and his
buddy drive Willie's Hungarian cousin Eva to Florida.  Although some
Hungarian is spoken, most of the dialogue is in English.
(1hr.40mins.)

When the film was playing in Toronto a movie critic who really liked
the film said that "Stranger Than Paradise" is "odder than hell".  I'd
agree!  

Joe Szalai

If you are interested in having a penpal in Asia, I suggest you see
AsiaWest FRIENDS at http://www.asia-west-friends.com/

Alot of Asian girls from Hong Kong, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc want
penpals in the US and Europe.

Good fun!

Andrew

On 19 Jul 1996 17:13:54 -0400,  (Chris Eastland)
wrote:

 (Marcel Bigger) writes:
>
 (Yigit kavurmacioglu) wrote:
>
>>>I have serious problem of understanding the logic of previous lines. This ki
nd 
>>>of mind set feeds these and other kinds of terrorist acts. Every reasonable 
>>>person should understand and act in a way that there is no "good " terrorism
 , 
>>>today or tomorrow everybody will suffer and most importantly human rights 
>>>should be for humans not for any kind of terrorists.
>
>>The term "terrorism" is IMHO a meaningless one. It does not describe
>>anything specific. Let me take a try at a good definition. What is
>
>
>Wonder of your IMHO would change if yer mum were blown up while
>she was walking in some mall because some asshole wanted to make a point
>about America's role in the Middle East talks.
>
>
Point well made. I think Freud would have a field day with THIS
particular conjecture.

Rozsa Bandi



> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 < OR >          
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.            
> =============================================================

Subject: TO MR. KEELER FROM MARIA
On July 20/96 in >
 (Maria Egorov) wrote::
|Sir, you are gone with the wind,and you spit against it. Not a smart 
|thing to do . Just like RHETT BUTTLER.
|Sicne you are a fan of Rhett I am going to be indulgent with you. 

I have no idea who RHETT BUTTLER is. How could you divine that I would be a
fan of someone whom I do not know. I think it is YOU who is making up
stories. 

|The following article is going to be written to your level of 
|comprenhension(which I overestimated at the begining).
|Sistematic proof for those uninitated(who were historicly BRAIN WASHED by 
|different groups as NAZI,COMMUNISTS,ETC.
|Since you have analitic tendencies:
|
|GO TO: ARE THE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Version 3)

I have read it and there is nothing there that addresses the very specific
questions I put to you that challenge your very specific and unfounded
contentions. You proved the case yourself -- please note:

  [==================================================================]
  [ Subject: MOR THAN etc etc etc. To W.KEELER                       ]
  [ On July 16/96 in >          ]
  [  (Maria Egorov) wrote:                        ]
  [ |Mr.,I attacked you on two fronts                                ]
  [ |1. The identity of the Hungarians.                              ]
  [ |2. The identity of the Jews living in Hungary.                  ]
  [ |Lets solve the first problem.                                   ]
  [ | 1. The identity of the Hungarians.(Which are their ROOTS ?).   ]
  [==================================================================]

You have only posted [ARE THE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Version 3)] a so-called
response to the "first problem" but nothing regarding no. 2. "The identity
of the Jews living in Hungary."

Why are you avoiding to address this "problem"? I have specific questions
about this. Are you afraid to answer my questions which not only challenge
your ludicrous contentions, but effectively corrode them in the face of
logic? You are only able to post generic replies to specific questions? You
run like a scared little kitten when someone focusses in, zeroes in, on your
specific comments. 

I am going to post those questions once again in soc.culture.magyar and this
time I will also send them directly to your mailbox so that you cannot claim
not to have noticed them. 

Unless you are a coward, or lack the specific knowledge to address each
individual question, then I will expect you to leave this newsgroup in
shame. You made very deliberate statements which condescend, and which you
presented in a posture of arrogance. I am calling you on it Ms Egorov. All
of soc.culture.magyar is waiting for your specific responses. 
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

[================================================================]
  [ On July 7/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:         ]
  [ |The Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor camps   ]
  [ |and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was concluded    ]
  [ |proudly by the Hungarians, without German supervision).       ]
  [================================================================]

You claim that the forced evacuation of Hungarian Jews was "concluded
proudly by the Hungarians." Can you provide documentation that proves that
the VAST MAJORITY of the population of Hungary was PROUD to evacuate
Hungarian Jews to death camps?

Would you agree that the following would be a far more accurate way of
stating your contention:

  [================================================================]
  [ |Many Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor camps  ]
  [ |and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was concluded    ]
  [ |proudly by a few Hungarians, with Nazi supervision).          ]
  [================================================================]

Please reply specifically. Support your claim, or else admit that your posting
was thoughtless and malicious. The ball is in your court Ms Egorov.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Los Angeles, California area attorney needs document translated into 
Hungarian.  Prefer that you either 1) live in southern California and/or 
2) can supply translation in WordPerfect 5.1/5.2 format.

Mike Stone, Attorney at Law


(310) 598-9875
(310) 431-1777 fax

[============================================================]
   [ On July 7/96  (Maria Egorov) declared:  ]
   [ |In the list of the so called Hungarian scientists you     ]
   [ |included Austrians like Robert Barany, Richard Zsiymondy, ]
   [ |etc. The rest of the scientists presented by you are Jews ]
   [ |and Slavs. Many of them having their names magyarized.    ]
   [ |The Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor     ]
   [ |camps and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was    ]
   [ |concluded proudly by the Hungarians, without German       ]
   [ |supervision). Knowing these facts, do you think it is     ]
   [ |easy for the Jews born in Hungary, survivors of the       ]
   [ |holocaust, (who are living abroad for obvious reasons) to ]
   [ |identify themselves as Hungarians? NOT AT ALL.            ]
   [============================================================]

I intervened

[===================================================================]
[ On July 8/96 in >                ]
[  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                           ]
[ |Wrong. The great Hungarian poet, George Faludy, visited my home  ]
[ |several times. He's a Jew. He suffered at the hands of the Nazis.]
[ |He also suffered at the hands of the Communists. He is proud of  ]
[ |his Hungarian identity, his Hungarian language, his Hungarian    ]
[ |culture. In spite of 20 fruitful and peaceful years in Toronto,  ]
[ |Canada, his Hungarianness compelled him to return to his beloved ]
[ |Hungary to end his days in his homeland.                         ]
[ |                                                                 ]
[ |A good friend of Faludy's, George Egri, also a Hungarian Jew,    ]
[ |who lived in Toronto for decades, returned to Hungary after the  ]
[ |Communists ate dirt. He was a journalist and columnist in        ]
[ |Toronto. I had many visits with him at his home and mine. When I ]
[ |met up with him in Budapest, he waxed poetic about being "home,  ]
[ |I am home again." George Egri also suffered the same situation   ]
[ | as George Faludy.                                               ]
[ |                                                                 ]
[ |Another good friend of George Faludy and George Egri, who is     ]
[ |also a Hungarian Jew, and who shared their experience in Hungary ]
[ |-- also had been imprisoned together in the infamous Rajk        ]
[ |concentration camp, although not returning to Hungary (because   ]
[ |he has a good life in Canada)does not forsake his Hungarianness. ]
[ |His name is George Gabori. His experiences can be read in his    ]
[ |book, WHEN EVILS WERE MOST FREE.                                 ]
[===================================================================]

And then...

   [============================================================]
   [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
   [ |do you think Albert Einstein after arriving in United     ]
   [ |States, started to yell "I am a German"?.NOT AT ALL. Do   ]
   [ |you really think that the Jews from Hungary (those who    ]
   [ |escaped the death camps)came to United States and proudly ]
   [ |said:"I am a Hungarian" or "long live Hungary"? Do you    ]
   [ |really think that these same Jews(only older)would change ]
   [ |their minds just because you changed the government?. Or  ]
   [ |Any gesture of public relation(like inviting Jews to your ]
   [ |home,etc.)will attenuate the pain,but they will definitely]
   [ |not become the Hungarians, Austrians or Germans you wish  ]
   [ |them to be(PERIOD) In the past Hungary, Germany & Austria ]
   [ |called the Slavs,Jews&Gipsies: "RATS"&"SUBHUMAN" This     ]
   [ |mentality still persists in Hungary and it is hidden as   ]
   [ |it is in Germany and Austria of today. In these           ]
   [ |circumstances I know that there are no Jews who would     ]
   [ |proudly say:I am a Hungarian.                             ]
   [============================================================]

So I replied:

 [====================================================================]
 [ On July 11/96 in >               ]
 [  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                            ]
 [ |If you read George Faludy's autobiographical book, My Happy Days  ]
 [ |In Hell, you'd find that he had no problem with being a Hungarian ]
 [ |and Jew. He made absolutely no effort to hide nor to even play    ]
 [ |down the fact. He was neither ashamed of being Hungarian nor      ]
 [ |Jewish. He certainly didn't BECOME AMERICAN. Although he moved to ]
 [ |Toronto for a couple decades, and appreciated it more than any    ]
 [ |other place, he remained a proud Hungarian and Jew, even with     ]
 [ |Canadian citizenship. I knew other Hungarians and Jews and they   ]
 [ |never expressed the kind of crap you think they do.               ]
 [====================================================================]

I overlooked mentioning a friend and ally of the Peoples Republic of
Poetry, and publisher of many books of poetry and prose, Robert Zend, who
was also a Hungarian Jew. He was always proud of both characteristics and
he had never denied those characteristics. At poetry readings he was
introduced as a Hungarian. The same went for George Faludy when I attended
his poetry readings. These are public affairs. 

I can mentioned 2nd rate poet and first rate columnist, George Jonas, who
is also a Hungarian Jew. (he had once been married to "right-wing"
columnist, Barbara Amiel, who is now married to Canadian and international
media mogul, Conrad Black.) In his [Jonas] published works and activities,
he had no hesitation in declaring his Hungarianness. 

In spite of the fact that I presented several very public Hungarian Jews
who never denied, indeed proclaimed, their Hungarianness, you declared:
     [=======================================================]
     [ |I know that there are no Jews who would proudly say: ]
     [ |I am a Hungarian.                                    ]
     [=======================================================]

Question: Can you name any Hungarian Jew who publicly disavowed his
          Hungarianness? Support your claim, or else admit that your 
          posting was thoughtless and malicious. The ball is in your 
          court Ms Egorov.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

[===================================================================]
[ On July 8/96 in >                ]
[  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                           ]
[ |Wrong. The great Hungarian poet, George Faludy, visited my home  ]
[ |several times. He's a Jew. He suffered at the hands of the Nazis.]
[ |He also suffered at the hands of the Communists. He is proud of  ]
[ |his Hungarian identity, his Hungarian language, his Hungarian    ]
[ |culture. In spite of 20 fruitful and peaceful years in Toronto,  ]
[ |Canada, his Hungarianness compelled him to return to his beloved ]
[ |Hungary to end his days in his homeland.                         ]
[ |                                                                 ]
[ |A good friend of Faludy's, George Egri, also a Hungarian Jew,    ]
[ |who lived in Toronto for decades, returned to Hungary after the  ]
[ |Communists ate dirt. He was a journalist and columnist in        ]
[ |Toronto. I had many visits with him at his home and mine. When I ]
[ |met up with him in Budapest, he waxed poetic about being "home,  ]
[ |I am home again." George Egri also suffered the same situation   ]
[ | as George Faludy.                                               ]
[===================================================================]

So Ms said:

   [============================================================]
   [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
   [ |Any gesture of public relation(like inviting Jews to your ]
   [ |home,etc.)will attenuate the pain,but they will definitely]
   [ |not become the Hungarians, Austrians or Germans you wish  ]
   [ |them to be(PERIOD)                                        ]
   [============================================================]

And I wrote:

 [====================================================================]
 [ On July 11/96 in >               ]
 [  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                            ]
 [ |If you read George Faludy's autobiographical book, My Happy Days  ]
 [ |In Hell, you'd find that he had no problem with being a Hungarian ]
 [ |and Jew. He made absolutely no effort to hide nor to even play    ]
 [ |down the fact. He was neither ashamed of being Hungarian nor      ]
 [ |Jewish. He certainly didn't BECOME AMERICAN. Although he moved to ]
 [ |Toronto for a couple decades, and appreciated it more than any    ]
 [ |other place, he remained a proud Hungarian and Jew, even with     ]
 [ |Canadian citizenship. I knew other Hungarians and Jews and they   ]
 [ |never expressed the kind of crap you think they do.               ]
 [====================================================================]

Please explain why you know that George Faludy or George Egri feel angst
("attentuate the pain") whenever they visited my home or when I visited them?
Support your claim, or else admit that your posting was thoughtless and
malicious. The ball is in your court Ms Egorov.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

e a richardson wrote:
> 
> TTTTT EEEEE SSSSS TTTTT
>   T   E     S       T
>   T   EEEEE SSSSS   T
>   T   E         S   T
>   T   EEEEE SSSSS   T
> 
> PPPPP AAAAA TTTTT TTTTT EEEEE RRRR  N   N
> P   P A   A   T     T   E     R   R NN  N
> PPPPP AAAAA   T     T   EEEEE RRRRR N N N
> P     A   A   T     T   E     R   R N  NN
> P     A   A   T     T   EEEEE R   R N   N
> 
> Box 425  Vienna, VA  22183
> Copyright 1996
> complimentary excerpt
> 
> ==============================================
> Tuesday, July 2, 1996
> ==============================================
> 
> 1.  The Invisible Lebanese-Americans.
> 
> We know the Irish; we grew up
> with the MacDougals, O'Garritys and Ginleys.
> Murphy's Pub does a fine business in
> Guiness Stout and Bass Ale served with lemon.
> All around the country, Celtic Music Festivals
> follow closely on St. Patrick's Day.  The Irish are
> on TV and in the movies, as the cops, the sports
> figures, the drunken neighbors of Middle America.
> 
> Italians are also quite visible on the American
> scene.  One if by pasta, two if by pizza, Little Italy is a phenomenon in
> major cities across the country.  On television, Italian-American imagery
> is often used to typify blue collar workers. In the movies, they are
> gangsters with fine clothes and fancy cars,sobbing to opera while slicing
> off  your fingers.  They don't get no respect, and they all seem to talk
> funny.
> 
> Speaking of no respect, we know the Poles.
> Are street fairs even allowed that don't serve
> kielbasa-- I mean, are these ethnics ubiquitous or what?  While cinema
> remains indifferent to them,  Television positively hates them, offering
> a regular tribute of ridicule through programs such as Married With
> Children.  TV's borscht belt standup comics planted the Polish Joke in
> the American cultural landscape, and the Polish Joke
> has been nourished there ever since.  It is the Jewish way of ridiculing
> the Poles.
> 
> Probably the Germans have it the worst though.  Not only television and
> cinema, but every form of media regularly carries Nazi this and WWII
> that, and Nazis killing Jews, Nazis killing Jews.  Additionally, the
> stereotypical psycho, a regular fixture in adolescent television and
> cinema, couldn't appear more German.  Television has gone to great
> lengths to intimidate, suppress, and depress, the ethnic German spirit,
> from early indoctrination through the teen years, when the influence
> becomes quite severe.  Media sees nothing good in Germans, meaning
> German-Americans, but rather seems to tolerate them.  And Germans are
> widespread in America, offering up to the common spirit some of our most
> unique and fascinating cultural icons, from Amish Communities to gifted
> and skilled citizens.  Again, ubiquitous.  And again, Christians,
> Methodists, with that set of common moral values so easily shared with
> the Irish, Italians, Poles.
> 
> We have to ask by now: why are they so silent?  and the Poles, why are
> they so silent?
> 
> Media's message to Blacks is repetitive, stupid, violent, and heavily
> reinforced.  Mainstream Black music is designed to guide rather than
> reflect Black culture.  Blacks display prominently in news as criminals
> involved with guns, drugs, prostitution, rape, and violent crime.
> Television prefers to show Black men more interested in white women,
> further denigrating and ridiculing Black women in society at large,
> especially in the eyes of Black men.  The ominous, disgusting O.J.
> Simpson `show` was designed as a long-running set of commericals showing
> that it is all right for Black men to `kill white chicks`, because Jews
> will save and rescue Black men, from justice if necessary.  In short, the
> crime of the year turned into a long-running commercial to present a mass
> mediated image of how well Blacks and Jews get along.
> 
> Jews have the most consistently positive, enlightening, wholesome
> presentations of any ethnic representation on television or anywhere in
> the mass media.  From the regularly broadcast gut-wrenching graphic
> trauma of WWII (staple programs on Public television nationwide)
> presenting the image of Jewish victims, to the regular hype as to why
> Seinfeld is such intellectually clever comedy, media
> never has anything more nasty to say about Jews than is said by Woody
> Allen, a media Jew whose idea of a bad Jew is one who eats greasy pork
> chops.  Media portrays Jews, and only Jews, as middle class American
> heroes, eating hot dogs and rooting for the New York Yankees, showing
> kindness to their families and their fellow Man, and being religious,
> faithful and true.
> 
> To ride the curve from the most prominent ethnic images in American media
> to the images that are least visible, we cascade through portrayals of
> stupid Chinese, bound by superstition and ritual, to the nearsighted
> Swede, lilting along in a clearly exaggerated ridicule of accent, the
> spiritually misguided American Indian, the Mexican dust-eaters, and other
> negative smatterings of ethnic diversity.
> 
> The image of the Lebanese is an image of foreign Arabs, suggesting that
> Arabs are foreign to America as well as hostile, along with the
> well-documented host of negative imagery associated with Arabs in
> American media.  Even after fifteen years of civil war, American media
> was unable to produce even one ethnic Lebanese national news commentator.
> For national and international news coverage, and especially noticeable,
> for American news coverage of the Mideast, there simply are no ethnic
> Arab-Americans.  There are Arab foreigners, but no Arab Americans.
> 
> Not that Lebanese care to be ridiculed any more than already proposed by
> Jewish media.    But in the realm of mass mediated information -- the
> news
> about your world from your most trusted source-- the absence of
> Lebanese-Amerian newspersons for national and international news
> reporting
> from the Mideast, even during 15 years of Lebanese strife, was peculiar.
>  Lebanese-Americans are most regularly the loudest complainers about the
> level of U.S. aid to Israel, the total cost of which has skyrocketed well
> beyond the costs of any other American military involvement in American
> history.  Yet the entire Lebanese-American ethnic population, with roots
> going back now for many generations in the United States, were seemingly
> not able to muster as many as one native journalist willing to cover
> those issues.  Not one appeared to be interested.  Yet thinking on these
> issues
> has been rampant in the Lebanese-American community.  These ethnic
> Lebanese Americans are totally absent from the debate on the most
> expensive foreign policy issue in American history, mostly because those
> who dared to speak out were harassed, intimnidated, and ruined into
> silence by nasty little groups of Israel-supported American Jews who saw
> waging social warfare against their fellow Americans as doing their bit
> for Israel.  But this was back in the 60s and 70s, long after medias
> audience research of the 50s painstakingly documented the characteristics
> of so many American nationalities.  As the only Arabs in America, the
> Lebanese-Americans became the main enemy, unsuspecting targets.
> 
> <<...regular, or decaf??  Hello? ...>>
> 
> Given media's ability to lavish negative imagery on other ethnics,
> perhaps the Lebanese have it good.  But the quesition that remains to be
> asked is many sided.  Why are American ethnics, from the Irish to the
> Poles to the Germans, to the Italians to the Blacks, regularly attacked
> by the media with religious and ethnic ridicule?  If American media is
> not an Israeli propaganda machine controlled by American Jews, why does
> this happen? And why are these media Jews using a set of demographically
> precise attacks on American citizens through the media?    American
> citizens have not been at war with each other since the Civil War, but
> now we have proof that American Jews are at war with many ethnic
> Americans, in order to suppress anti-Israel thinking, and to avoid real
> debate of American passionate attachment to Israel.
> 
> It has been quite plain for some time now that Israel has had a free
> reign over the apparatus of the Jewish propaganda in the United States,
> and probably other countries as well.  The dominance of Jewish influence
> in American media generally is also well-known and documented.  And if,
> as John Lennon asserted, "one and one and one is three," it is not
> difficult to see the extent of damage that Israel has brought upon
> American society in its war to dominate the resources of the United
> States to Israel's advantage.
> 
> What do these groups have in common, that they should all suffer the same
> mass-mediated ridicule?  They are all Christians, for starters.  The
> Mideast wars have become one big religious war after all.  Judaism is
> surely at war with the very threatening picture of organized Christianity
> in the United States, and so better to oppress the spirit of these people
> as best as they can be catigorized.
> 
> -------------------------------------------
> 
> TEST PATTERN, the newsletter of American ethnic Lebanese and
> Arab-American public opinion -- media's inverted image!
> 
> The most heavily censored American political thought in the latter half
> of the twentieth century:
> 
> Subscribe now to 52 issues for only $49.95.
> That's $9.95 off the news-stand-less price!!
> 
> TEST PATTERN
> TEST PATTERNIsrael is Iraq's twentieth lost province... :-)

In article > Charles M. Vamossy,
 writes:
>I will also urge the International Olympic Committee to 
>never again give any communications company a monopoly 
>contract.

The IOC gave the monopoly of broadcasting to NBC until,
ant I am not joking, 2008, for the next three games as
well, for 4 bn $ (from The Economist).

Tamas

>
>What should I do ? I drink neither Coca C. nor Pepsi C.  ;-)
>
>Tamas

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Stay with your Gaterade...

Dr. Laszlo

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Hi,

I don't know who the original poster was; didn't  any of the followups
either. But, if he or she wants to see  "Just how bad was communism
morally," all s/he needs to do is read SCR for a couple weeks.


--
If you don't hear back from me after a few days mail to:

~~~~
Disclaimer:I work for myself, thus I stand behind my words!  SO THERE!
~~~~
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the 
contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one 
person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind"
                                                      John Stuart Mill