Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX HUNGARY 469
Copyright (C) HIX
1995-10-25
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 transulation please (mind)  22 sor     (cikkei)
2 Why some letters are missing (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
3 US Involvement in 1956 Revolt? (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: US Involvement in 1956 Revolt? (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: 1956 Recollections (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: zandari - madarski a ceski (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: zandari - madarski a ceski (mind)  3 sor     (cikkei)
8 Re: *** HUNGARY *** #468 (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
9 Honor the memory (October 28-29, 1956) (mind)  420 sor     (cikkei)
10 Hungary-report (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
11 Revolution today? (mind)  24 sor     (cikkei)
12 The nature of 1956 (mind)  90 sor     (cikkei)
13 Re: transulation please (mind)  38 sor     (cikkei)
14 Difference between native magyars (mind)  17 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: Hungary-report (mind)  20 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: The nature of 1956 (mind)  58 sor     (cikkei)

+ - transulation please (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I do not want to start another buta argument (no pun intended) but I am
still working on my Church-State relations article and I need a good
translation. One that is not necessarily literal, but captures the
true meaning. here is the quote (from a 1958 Kozponti bizottsaga
politikai bizottsagnak hatarozata.)

A socializmus gyozelme, az osztalytarsadalom felszamolasa megszunteti a
vallasi ideologiak tarsadalmi baxisat. A tudomanyos elorehaladas a
termeszet- es a tarsadalomtudomanyok, valamint a gondolkodas teruleterol
fokozatosan kiszoritja a vallas misztikus, tudomanytalan tanitasait,s
ezaltal megszunteti a vallas szellemi alapjait--a tudatlansagot.

my transulation is as follows;
The dissolvement of the class society, the socialist triumph, is putting
an end to religion's ideological social basis. Scientific advancement,
nature, sociology, as well as the cognitive domain will gradually
supercede religion and it's unscientific teachings. They will put an end
to religion's spiritual base--ignorance.
It is a bit ridged and I am not sure if I have transulated the meaning
correctly. It is important that I do. If anyone has any suggestions,
please write. Thank you much
dini metro-roland
+ - Why some letters are missing (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > you write:
>HUNGARY  Comment what you may not like
>*.: Ern Ger is Erno: Gero: in Hungarian. The Ern is OK, but why
>the Gero is Ger ? His official name was Gero at that time.

If you had read Prof. Liptak's posts carefully, you would have noticed
him explaining this.  Briefly, he originally used the Hungarian long
diacritcs which, however, could not be transmitted here from AOL.
In their place you see a blank.

Oh, and please fill in the Subject field for all our sakes..

Joe Pannon
+ - US Involvement in 1956 Revolt? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear Friends,
        I am writing my senior honors thesis about the US involvement in and
reaction to the Hungarian Revolt of 1956, and I would appreciate any
information that anyone could give me about whether the US encouraged the
revolt, and the role or Radio Free Europe. I would also like to know anything
about CIA involvement.  Replys will be very much appreciated!!!!
        Sincerely,
                The Big Cool Guy
+ - Re: US Involvement in 1956 Revolt? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > you write:
>       I am writing my senior honors thesis about the US involvement in and
>reaction to the Hungarian Revolt of 1956, and I would appreciate any
>information that anyone could give me about whether the US encouraged the
>revolt, and the role or Radio Free Europe. I would also like to know anything
>about CIA involvement.  Replys will be very much appreciated!!!!

An equally good or even better angle might be if the Eisenhower
administration encouraged the Soviets to crush the uprising.  I am
thinking of the rumored State Dept. cable to Tito at the time of
Hrushchev's visit there in which was a clear signal to the Soviets that
they need not worry about US interference in Eastern Europe.
The phrase a keep remembering from that alleged cable was something
like: "the United States government does not look with favor to the
establishment of regimes in the region that are unfriendly to the Soviet
Union."  I think it's not hard to guess what this meant in the given
situation and the Soviets got the message.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: 1956 Recollections (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

It looks like there are several uf us, "oldtimers", who witnessed the
events in '56.

Barna wrote:

>The way I remember it was in his impromptu, reluctantly given speech to the
>crowd at the Parliament Square on the 23rd. I was there, I remember clearly
>the booing, and disappointment with his speech starting with the hated word
>"Elvtarsak".
>
>I don't think this speech was broadcasted.

For some reason, even if I was not there personally, I am recalling it
as if I had heard it broadcast on the radio.  Perhaps it was captured on
news real and may have seen it that way somewhere.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: zandari - madarski a ceski (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>Jeden moj madarsky kamarat sa zveril o otcovou skusenostou:
>(niekde od Novych Zamkov) - v krcme, kam rad chodieval ako kazdy
>normalny clovek, sa skoro vzdy strhla nejaka bitka. Do toho casto
>'vliezol' uhorsky (ci madarsky) zandar a s obuskom (ci palicou, ci
>co to mal) zacal vsetko okolo seba mlatit, kam dociahol. (tusim
>najradsej po hlave tlkol).

I have no doubt this was so.  However, I've heard a lot of old folks
mentioning it that at least in those times there was order and people
who had nothing to hide, felt a lot safer than now, in the "big
democracy".  There is something to be said, also, for the Singapour
method of administering justice.  They may have learned it from the
"madarskyh zandarov". ;-)

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: zandari - madarski a ceski (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Oops! Wrong address. Sorry!

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: *** HUNGARY *** #468 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Kedves Kristyan,
        Gero eredeti neve Singer volt. Sajnos azt kell mondanom, ha,
zsidok kozott, nem lennenek bunozok, talan nem is lennenk igazi nep. Mi
is Homo Sapiens Sapiens vagyunk, akik kozott jo szammal akadnak kegyetlenek.
        Udv,                                    Robert
+ - Honor the memory (October 28-29, 1956) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

NOTE: This is the 7th segment of a memoir of the Hungarian Revolution,
consisting of 15 such segments. My goal is to pay tribute to two of the
martyrs of 1956, Istvan Angyal and Janos Danner. If at the end of this
series, you would like me to send you the complete text (330,000 bits,)
please let me know. I apologize that some of the Hungarian vowels are
deformed by the AOL software (such as  e'=i, etc.), but this is still
preferred, because this way the hard prints are correct. Be'la Lipta'k




        VII
As I am heading toward the garage at 36 T|zolts Street, the headquarters of
Istvan Angyal, I hear gunfire from that direction. So I approach the area
from the back, through Mester and Viola Streets. As I turn into Viola Street,
I can see a Russian tank at the intersection with \ll i Street. Viole Street
is strangely still and quiet, it seems completely deserted.
        Now I see an aluminum waste-basket on the street corner with T|zolts
Street. It is moving by itself! It is slowly crossing Viola Street. I stare
at it hypnotised. Now the tank at the intersection starts firing at the
rubbish-bin, and at that very instant, somebody pulls me into a doorway.  Are
you out of your mind?  - yells a bolding, bespectacled man.  Nobody walks on
Viola, particularly not with a tri-colored arm-band and a sub- machine-gun!
  Sorry about that, but what made the garbage-can move?   They are pulling it
on a string. That is the only way to send something across the street.  - he
explains.
       So, how do I get to the garage on T|zolts Street?   They have knocked
out the walls between the basements. That is the only safe way, I'll take you
there.  and without an other word, he starts moving. We descend into his
basement. It is dark and dirty. I try to be careful with my once beautiful
corduroy jacket, but it is hopeless. We are crawling through coal-cellars and
holes in basement walls. After a good half an hour, I can smell gasoline: we
must be in the basement of a garage.
      As we climb the stairs, I see a number of parked cars, including the
truck with the Red Cross flag and two dozen young people, including a couple
of soldiers in uniform. Most of them are working on an ad hoc assembly line.
They are converting milk bottles into Molotov cocktails. As they fill the
flasks with gasoline, some of the fluid spills out. This is why I smelled gas
in the basement. Before putting the cork back, they isert a thick piece of
cloth into the jar. This wick soaks up the gasoline and is lit before the jar
is thrown.
      In the garage, the radio is on. I hear the announcement:  A new
national  government has been formed, headed by Imre Nagy!  There is cheering
on the assembly-line. Istvan Angyal is sitting in the corner, he is reading a
leaflet.
        Must be very interesting!  - I say to him.  It's a poem, but what are
you doing here?  He looks surprised, but happy to see me.  Oh, just checking
to make sure, that you take your cough syrup? My secondary purpose is to buy
the patent of your self- propelled garbage-can.  He laughs and offers me to
sit down. The bespectacled bold guy looks at us respectfully. He is impressed
by Angyal, because he is the commander, and me, because I know him. Istvan
Angyal is a 28 years old construction foreman, he is shorter than me, wears a
white smock, his hair is brown, his teeth are crooked.
       So what makes me interesting?  - he asks.  It must be the coffee!
Anybody who braves tank-fire to bring coffee to his man must be at least
unique!   We also have women!  - he corrects me, grinning and asks:  Speaking
of coffee, can I get you some?   Sure, and also some bread, if you have any?
I am meeting our truck at the Pet fi Bridge at 4 PM and in the meanwhile, I
decided to come to this coffee house for lunch.
      While sipping my coffee, I tell Pista (the familiar form of Istvan),
that the chief of police, Sandor Kopacsi thinks, that we look alike.  Now,
that is an insult! I don't wire my sandals, like some people!  - he says,
looking at my disintegrating shoes.  He also told me, that you were deported
to Auschwitz.  - I continue.  Yes. His wife got me onto the subject. Her
family was also deported by the Germans. I was 16, she perhaps 20-22. In my
family, I was the only one who survived. So we had something in common.   Why
do you say something?  - I ask, as I detect a bit of sarcasm in his voice.
 You are too young for that, besides it's 3 PM and you will miss your truck!
  Not, if you walk with me. Then you can explain what you mean by that
something, as you are showing me the way.   OK, I will take you to Mester
Street, the rest of the way is easy.  - he says, folding up his poem.
      As we climb down into the dark basement, he begins:  You see, being a
Hungarian Jew is not the same as being of Slavic, Germanic or Latin origin.
They blend in, they assimilate much easier, we dress differently, we form
ghettos, we stand out.
       On Magyarbanhegyes, where I was born, we were the only Jews. I knew
that I am a Sephardi Jew, but knew nothing about Israel, I never been to a
synagogue, I danced the Csardas and sung the Hungarian folk songs. My father
made shoelaces and called me the  Little Magyar , because I preferred boots
to shoes and because I memorized all of Pet fi's poems. And then, on a May
morning in 1944, the SS came and deported the four of us: my mother, Tibor,
Teriz and me. They shoot Tibor, because he refused to get into the
freightcar, they hanged my mother, because she tried to escape, while Teriz
died in the gas chambers and I survived.
     We are in the middle of a coal-cellar, Pista stops, grabs a shovel and
furiously throws it into the coal pile.  They not only killed my family, they
also wanted to destroy my soul. According to the Germans, I was not a
Hungarian! The Germans meant that I do not belong here, that I am not, who I
am! Ever since I been trying to prove them wrong, to show that I am not any
less of a patriot, as the next guy. And I am not the only one who feels this
way! It was in Auschwitz where I met Jszsef Gali, one of our leaders today.
      You see Vcsi (he calls me by my nickname for the first time), some
terrible things happened here, when you were a child. First the general
population allowed the Germans to deport their Jewish compatriots, then, when
the survivors returned, a few of them wanted to take revenge. So they decided
to work for the Russians.
     It would not have been so bad if Russian Communism did not turn into a
terrorist nightmare, but it did. So the Jews in Rakosi's government, the Jews
heading the AVH, the police and the military, the Jewish factory directors
eviscerating the industrial workers and the Jews directing the compulsory
produce collections on the farms, became the represen tatives of the regime.
The suffering throughout Hungary became associated with Jewish Rule. Because
of a few traitors, the odium of Stalinism fell on the Jews.
      We are now climbing out from a basement on Mester Street. Pista is
still very excited. Every time he says something, he seems dissatisfied with
himself for not having said it clearer or for not having covered the topic
more thoroughly. I can tell, that he could go on for hours, as he continues:
 Mind you, I myself am a Communist, not a party member, but still a Commnist,
so I don't blame anybody who
tries to improve the lot of the poor, the underprivileged. What I hate is
tyranny and foreign domination, not Communism. Mind you, if instead of the
Jews, the stamp-collectors or the Unitarians decided to collaborate with the
Russians, the result would have been the same. The same barbaric madness
would have evolved, except that today the Unitarians and not the Jews would
be blamed for it.
        So, when you said, that you had something in common with Kopacsi's
wife, you meant that you too survived Auschwitz, but that is all?
        Pista's eyes flash like lightning:  Well, I don't know what her
family did, how her husband became the chief of police, or why, but I am
saying that we, the overwhelming majority of Hungarian Jews, are not Russian
collaborators, but patriotic Hungarians! We feel most ashamed of the Rakosis
and the AVH murderers, and one day, I hope, one day...  - his lips are
trembling, his eyes are moist and I feel guilty and ashamed, without knowing
precisely why. So I put my arms on his shoulders and we walk silently, side
by side for a while, before I tell him:  You know, there is an other guy I
really respect, he is a German-Hungarian, a blond giant, his name is Jancsi
Danner. He fought a few blocks from you at the Corvin Theater. They knocked
out five tanks. He does not articulate things like you do, but he too is
trying to prove the obvious: that he is Hungarian.
       By now, we have walked almost all the way to the Pet fi Bridge. I see
Gyurka's truck waiting, so I hug Pista good by and run. This time both trucks
are loaded with sub-ma chine-guns. It was 6 PM by the time we unloaded them,
made an other round by 9 PM and then returned for a last trip, with only one
truck, to complete the job. By the time everything is neatly unloadad in the
gymnasium, it is midnight. There is a lot of fresh food that arrived from the
villages during the day. So we sit down with Gyurka and stuff ourselves.
       In the MEFESZ office Kati Sz ke and Tibor Vmgh are sitting in the
corner, they must be discussing the purpose of life or something. It is
obvious that they do not need my assistance. Colonel Marian is writing,
Sandor Varga is on the telephone, so I report to Jancsi Danner:  We unloaded
six truck-loads of weapons into the gymnasium. I also met Istvan Angyal, the
leader at T|zolts utca.   Good job! I heard of Angyal's group, when I was in
the Corvin Theater. They were the first ones with the Molotov coctails. What
is it like there?   The Russian tanks are at the main intersections on \ll i
Street, some of them fire at anything that moves, others just sit there, but
in either case, they make little difference. The district is ours, the AVH
has disappeared, we are in full control. How was your day?
       Met a bunch of generals at the Hungarian Military Headquarters and
later some politicians in the Parliament. They wanted us to disarm, but I'm
sure they will settle for integrating our forces with the police. We, in turn
demanded, that they disband the AVH and remove the Russians from the capital.
There will be more meetings tomorrow. I trust Imre Nagy, but he is naive and
isolated by the AVH at Communist Headquarters.  After the meetings I did a
couple of patrol tours. The district is quiet, the stores are untouched, the
people are glad to see our patrols, and Gabi is glad to see me, when on my
rounds I reach her house.
       You are lucky with Gabi. I don't seem to be able to get in touch with
Agnes. I guess, they left the city.  - I add.
       Well, maybe it's all for the better. You are not exactly a dashing
jeune premier at the moment, you know!  - he says. I look at my dirty hands,
my feet with the wired sandals and my corduroy jacket. They are shocking. The
jacket is so dirty, that it can just about stand up on it's own. On its right
side is a large blotch of blood, on the back, where my gun rests, there is a
big oil stain, plus the whole jacket is crumpled from my sleeping in it and
is covered by all kinds of dirt, including coal dust, which is the last layer
of dirt.  Well, I see your point  -I admit and go the men's room, to try to
improve on my appearance. When I get back, Jancsi is snoring on the sofa in
the right hand office, so I quietly lie down on the rug and in a moment his
solo is converted into a duet.
       It is a beautiful Sunday morning. The ringing of the telephone wakes
me up. Attila Szigethy, the president of the Revolutionary Council in the
city of Gy r is calling:  I just want you to know  - he says -  that the
local Russian Commander has declared our cause to be a just one and ordered
his troops to cooperate with us.  In the MEFESZ office, we are floating on
air. It has been only 5 days since our march to the Bem statue and now
victory is in the air. The AVH has disintegrated, a formal cease fire has
been declared, Imre Nagy is finally in the Parliament. It is too good to be
true.
      I am so happy, I want to share it with Agnes. Her mother picks up the
telephone:  No, she stayed down at lake Balaton. No, I'm leaving too. No, we
have no phone there. Yes, the Russians are still surrounding the city. Yes, I
will tell her.  - she gives her answers in her rapid-fire style. I guess, she
just hates talking on the phone.
      Kati Sz ke was watching me with empathy:  No Agnes?  - she asks. I nod,
while she hands me a typewritten permit, which allows me to enter the
university at any time. Pista asked her to set up some controls, as our
numbers have grown, we already have about a hundred people milling around and
thousands are expected.  Yours has the serial number 3, Pista is 1, I am 2.
So, don't feel down, Agnes will come around!
      There are a dozen AVH officers in the KA-51 lecture hall. Some have
been picked up by our patrols, others came on their own, seeking protection.
We give them food, let them play chess and eventually we will hand them over
to the courts, when the justice system starts functioning.
      Pista's eyes are still blood-shot, he must have worked throughout most
of the night. Now he is on his third coffee and is just as optimistic as the
rest of us. He declares:  We have won! The Revolution is over, the AVH has
been beaten, power is in the hands of the Revolutionary Councils. In a few
days, we will become the government and if the Russians attack us, that will
no longer be called a revolution, it will be a war between two socialist
states. This is not just my view, I am quoting the commander of the Kilian
Barracks, the next Defense Minister of Hungary, General Pal Maliter.
      Next, Pista shows us the plans, which he worked out last night. It is
the defense strategy for our First National Guard Battalion, which we named
after the poet Sandor Pet fi. Our task is to defend the triangle between
Moricz Square and the two bridges, Freedom and Pet fi.
      I was about to find something to eat for breakfast, in the gym, when
Pista turns to me:  Vcsi, would you take this plan to the freedom fighters on
Szina Square and ask for their comments?  So, instead of breakfast, Gyurka
drives me to the headquarters of the already legendary Janos Szabs. I know
that he is from Transylvania, about 60, a truck driver and is the husband of
the director of our nursery at the university.
        I also heard that he is a most clever guerilla leader. A couple of
days ago he took a dozen dinner plates, sprayed them black, and placed them
in front of an advancing Russian tank column. In order to avoid these  mines
, the column turned into the only street, which had no plates. That street
climbed up Castle Hill. After the first bend, the tanks noticed that the
pavement is covered with oil, but by then it was too late to turn back. The
caterpillar-tracks of the tanks started to slip, the tanks got stuck and the
Molotov cocktails started to fly from the windows and rooftops. That was the
end of that tank column.
      The headquarter is in the workers' hostel of the construction company,
that is building the subway. The place is swarming with armed youngsters, all
of them working class boys and girls. In the center of this commotion stands
a tall, graying man, with a gigantic, dark mustache and a red beret pulled
down to his eyes. I feel a little embarrassed, because while I am talking, my
stomach decides to rumble. I try to be very official, very military. I report
on the plans of our Pet fi Battalion, I talk about Colonel Marian and his
defense triangle, while Szabs is looking at me with a twinkle in his eyes. So
I redouble my effort to sound even more military, I tell him, which are his
bridges and which are ours and how we are to alert each other, if we see
advancing Russian troops.
       He still has not said anything, but now he puts his arm on my
shoulder, and walks me into the kitchen. The smell of bacon and eggs is
making me dizzy, but I bravely continue my tirade about defense triangles and
bridges. Finally he interrupts:  Three or four?  - he asks. I repeat in
desperation:  No, no! You defend only two bridges, yours are the Chain and
the Margaret bridges.   I don't mean bridges, I mean eggs!  - he says, still
grinning and then he turns to the lady at the stove:  Give this hungry
warrior four eggs and a lot of bacon!
      He watches me, while I am eating. His eyes are warm, they remind me of
Aptyi's. He swallows when I do, he nods when I wipe the grease from my plate
with the crumb of the bread. Only when I am done, does he look at Pista's
plans. He marks in the locations of his lookouts, writes down two telephone
numbers on which he can be reached and a list of the firearms he has, then
turns to me:  At last count, I had 310 sons here, but if things get rough,
I'm sure they will bring their brothers and sisters. So we can stage a decent
welcoming party for the Russians!  He is constantly kidding, and always
refers to his fighters, including the girls, as  my sons .
      Uncle Szabs is the first, authentic popular leader I have ever met. His
aura is such, that when he enters a room, all activity stops and people look
up. He is playful and close- tongued, merry and serene, he radiates
confidence and displays composure. In short, I am so impressed by him, that
if Pista did not need me at the university, I would gladly become one of his
 sons.  (After the second Russian attack on November 4, 1956, he was captured
and on the 19th of January, 1957, he was hanged.)
       On our way back to the university, we are watching the streets of
Budapest. There is no fighting, people are pouring out of the churches, they
are dressed in their Sunday best. In the stores, the goods behind the broken
windows, are untouched. On the corners, trucks and horse drawn wagons are
distributing the produce, which was brought in from the villages. We see an
unguarded collection box for the victims of the fighting. It is over flowing
with paper money. The streets are patrolled by youngsters wearing tri-colored
arm- bands, the city is at peace. The Russian tanks are still at the main
intersections, but they are passive, they are probably getting ready to
leave. In short, it is a lovely Sunday noon, when we get back to the
Technical University.
       Colonel Marian is happy with the information we bring. He says, he
will call up Janos Szabs, but before doing that, he gives me a new
assignment: We have to go to the Vvlgy Street Military Laboratory and obtain
a laud-speaker car and a short-wave radio transmitter from them. Pista's
bloody eyes look worried, as he warns me, that the Laboratory has not yet
been visited by freedom fighters and it is full of very  reliable  officers,
who work on military secrets. By  reliable , he means loyal Communists,
possibly members of the AVH. Therefore, he feels, that we should be prepared
for armed resistance.  In other words, be very careful. If they fire, do not
shoot back, just leave!  - he says.
       As I am getting into our car, I see the tall figure of Jancsi Danner,
climbing out of an armored car:  Who's car is that, Jancsi?  - I ask.  It
belongs to the Prime Minister, Imre Nagy. He sent me back in it from a
meeting, because, I guess, he is worried about my safety or something.
 Jancsi is smiling, he can not conceive that anybody would want to harm him.

         Vvlgy Street is up in the Buda Hills, the district, where before the
War, the wealthy had their graceful and luxurious chateaus. These villas have
all been nationalized and given to the new privileged class, the Communist
bosses. The Military Laboratory is in a three-story, ornate palace. It is
ringed by tall brick walls. Their top is sprinkled with broken glass. There
is a bell-pull next to the iron door. The street is empty, except for two
little girls, playing with horse chestnuts, in front of the next villa.
Gyurka stops the car a few yards from the gate and pulls out his pistol. I
too take out my polished lady's pistol, which I got from police chief
Kopacsi. When we reach the gate, I pull the bell-wire.
        We hear the pleasant sound of a real bell, which is ringing at some
distance from the gate. We stand on the two sides of the gate, partially
protected by the brick wall. My hand is shaking, my throat is dry. It seems
that a long time has passed, when finally we hear some steps, then the key
turns and the door slowly opens.
      With my pistol drawn, I step into the doorway and declare:  In the name
of the Revolution, I seize this Laboratory!  The graying officer looks
startled, holds out his hand for a handshake and when I finally manage to put
away my revolver, we shake hands.  Colonel Kovacs  - he says.  Vcsi  - I
reply. He also shakes hands with Gyurka and then leads us into a large
conference room. The conference table is the size of two ping-pong tables, a
dozen officers are sitting around it. Colonel Kovacs directs us to the head
of the table and when we are seated, makes a somewhat formal welcoming
speech.
       He explains, that the laboratory has formed it's own revolutionary
council, they have kicked out their Russian superiors and the AVH general who
headed the laboratory and have been waiting for days, to make formal contact
with us. He welcomes us, as the representatives of all freedom fighters. He
assures us, that they too want a free and democratic Hungary and that both
their skills and their equipment is at our disposal. While he talks, Gyurka's
right hand is resting on his pistol. Mine has disappeared in the side pocket
of my corduroy jacket.
       I tell them, that we would like to borrow a shortwave radio
transmitter, in order to make direct contact with the Russian tank crews, on
the streets of Budapest. I also ask for a loud-speaker van. They agree to
provide both. Because I do not know how to drive, they also give us a driver,
to bring the van back to our garage. One of the officers hands me a slip of
paper, listing the short wave frequencies used by the Russians. An other
explains, how I can use the loud-speaker car, either by talking into the
microphone or by switching to tapes or radio broadcasts. They also give me an
organization chart, which lists their areas of competence, names and
telephone numbers.
       We are ready to leave, when Colonel Kovacs asks if we would need
anything else, like clothing or boots? I don't understand what he is driving
at. I tell him, that our Pet fi Batallion is a temporary National Guard unit,
which does not need uniforms. On our way out, he points at my wired sandals
and says:  You can not win a revolution, if you got pneumonia!  So I finally
get his point. Two or three officers run out and in a minute they return with
a variety of shoes, boots and a pile of clothing.
      The conference room is converted into a dressing room. I feel
embarrassed these officers who are twice my age, are looking at my dirty feet
and at the pathetic remains of my socks. They stand around and assist, while
I am trying on some of these soft leather beauties. I leave the laboratory in
black riding boots and in a rubberized trench coat over my jacket. My boots
are so polished, that the feet of a landing fly would slip and she would land
on her behind.
       The change in my appearance must have been substantial, because the
student guard in front of the MEFESZ office stops me and asks for my identily
papers. This has never happened before. So I decide to get rid of the
officer's trench-coat, but I still keep the black riding boots.
       Pista is very happy with the cars and the equipment we got. He asks
some electrical engineering students to arrange for regular radio broadcasts
and asks Gyurka to get Igor Smk involved in the Russian language broadcasts.
Igor grew up in Moscow, when his father was Hungary's ambassador, so his
Russian is perfect. Since Igor is Gyurka's brother-in- law, this is a natural
assignment for him. While Gyurka is hunting for Igor, I join Jancsi Danner
for a patrol tour of our district.
       The street lights are dark, no buses or street-cars are running. The
people feel safer, if they see our regular patrols. I feel funny walking next
to Jancsi, because at 6'-2 , I still  feel like a midget. We start out, just
the two of us, on the embankment of the Danube, walking toward Pet fi Bridge.
The city is quiet, there is practically no traffic, we meet no one, as we
walk toward the bridge. Jancsi is the quiet type. He would probably cover
this 3-mile triangular loop without saying a word. Therefore I have to get
him started:
       So what do you think of my new boots?
       Nice, really nice.  - he says, but I can tell, that he is totally
uninterested in my boots.
       Did I tell you about Pista Angyal?  - I try again.
       Only, that you met him. What kind of a guy is he?
       Well, he is a six foot midget with crooked teeth. He is brave and
smart, he is about your age, but already divorced. So watch out with Gabi! -
I reply, but Jancsi does not laugh, he does not appreciate my kind of humor.
       I did not mean his teeth or height.  - he says.   was interested, if
you got a sense of what he stands for, what kind of man he is on the inside?
 - he asks.
       Well, yes I did. He is a Hungarian patriot, if I ever saw one! He is a
selfless idealist, he thinks that he is a Communist, but to him that word
means justice and protection of the weak. He also hates dictatorship. He told
me that in his toilet, he hanged Stalin's portrait upside down. His family
was killed in Auswitz, they were sephardim Jews. I told him that you seem to
be his German equivalent.
       What do you mean?  - Jancsi says, startled.
       Oh, nothing much: My Father told me, that first or second generation
Hungarians are the most patriotic.  - I reply.
       I'm not first or second generation, the Danner store of Szeged, is
about a hundred years old!  - says Jancsi, with his voice raised.
       OK, OK, so I am wrong. I just had that feeling that you both are
trying to prove something. Sorry about that. So why did you leave Szeged?
       Well, my parents were divorced.  - he starts, but I interrupt:  So
were Angyal's!
       Stop this comparison-foolishness! I stayed with my Father in Szeged.
Got in trouble with the police in 1948, when the Communists outlawed
religious education in the schools. Did Angyal do that too?
       No. Actually, I don't think he is religious at all.
       Good, because I am. I know that there is a Creator, I know that our
lifes have a purpose. I do not know what that purpose is? It might be to
protect the survival of life on this planet, it might be to see, if free will
makes the human soul impove or degenerate? All I know is that the atheists
are wrong, that there is more to life, than 70 years of selfishness, comfort,
security and animal-functions. I also know, that what is occuring in Hungary
today is much more than an attempt by a small nation to gain her freedom. The
human spirit itself is being reborn in Hungary. Our fight is a confrontation
between ideals and tanks.  - I have never seen Jancsi this electrified, this
carried away. He is saying things, that he probably never articulated, not
even for himself. So I keep quiet and he continues:
        Before the dawn can come, we have to triumph over the night. I feel
it in my bones, that our sun, the sun of World Freedom, the sun of human
dignity is rising. I feel that this world will experience a new renaissance,
a spiritual renewal, and mankind will find its higher purpose. It will take
heroes, it will take sacrifice, but it will occur. Our role is a noble one,
we can not escape it. Today, we are showing a cynical and faithless world,
what the human spirit can do. As, with our bare hands, we face the tanks,
some might laugh at us. But they are wrong. Tanks can not kill ideals, they
can not roll over the human spirit, and even if we fail, our ideals will
outlast their tanks. So don't worry. Let us just continue our patrol, let us
just follow our hearts. What has to come, will come anyway, we can not miss
our destiny, we can not escape our fate. We must walk the walk, until our
moment comes.
       It is close to midnight when we get back to the university. I hug
Jancsi, before going down to the emergency room, to sleep on my narrow and
uncomfortable bed-on-wheels. Jancsi looks a bit embarrassed for having opened
up, for having allowed me to look into his heart, to take a peak beyond his
veil of discipline and self control. I am grateful, because he has
articulated some of my feelings also. This night, it takes a long time for me
to go to sleep. This is how the fisherman must have felt, at the Sea of
Galilee, when they began to understand their roles and responsibilities. It
was both scary and uplifting.
+ - Hungary-report (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I just hope most of you have read this essay by Laszlo Petrovics-Onfer.
There are too many other stories wich are related to 56.
Hatred and revenge was part of this uprising also.
This is one reason I left Hungary.I did not want to be husled somewhere or
shot at sight again.
Amdy K.
+ - Revolution today? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Dear  [Canada]!

You mention that you heard someone at your local Magyar Haz to say that:

>another " '56 Revolution" is right around the corner.  Now, my family
>and I keep in regular contact with our relatives in Hungary and receive
>daily newspapers from Europe and Hungary itself (via the NET), and have
>heard nothing to prove this statement to be true.  My question is has
>anybody else heard anything regarding this (based on facts), or was this
>just a personal opinion, or is it a few know it all American/Canadian
>"Hungarians" trying to stir the **** by filling people's heads full of false
>information, so that they can look like martyrs when they attempt to save
>their fellow Hungarians?

You have encountered someone with right-wing political views. Istvan Csurka
and his MIEP party have been talking rather wildly about another revolution
("lazadas!") because, according to them, there is no possiblel way of getting
rid of the present government in a legal manner. Istvan Csurka and his
followers are not known for their realistic assessment of political
situations.

Admittedly, times are hard but things are not that bad yet.

Eva Balogh
+ - The nature of 1956 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Joe Pannon's contribution today draws on discussions which have been taking
place on the Hungarian-language Forum. There, some people have been comparing
the student demonstration of thirty-nine years ago to student demonstrations
of today. I see no connection between the two demonstrations. Today Hungarian
students demonstrate against the introduction of tuition, in my opinion, a
basically selfish cause. In 1956 the students didn't demonstrate for better
food in the cafeterias or higher stipends but for altruistic reasons. In
fact, the impetus for the demonstration came from Hungarians' age-long
solidarity with the Poles. One of the placards ELTE students carried read:
"The Polish cause is our cause too!"

The other topic of discussion was: what did the students, what did the
people, what did the demonstrators, want on the afternoon of October 23? We
talked about this question on this list as well: Peter Hidas, whose main
interest is 1956, contributed to the discussion. I argued that the younger
generation, the students, did not want the return of capitalism but only
turned against the Stalinist, totalitarian, Soviet-type regime. They wanted
to have "socialism with a human face," using a newer phrase. Later, of
course, the demands included the introduction of multi-party demoncracy.

Joe envisages the scenario in the following manner:

>I think initially nobody in his or her
>right mind thought that the regime could be overthrown as it later
>turned out.  So the initial goals of the organizers and most
>participants were a simple reformation of the system, something what
>might be called socialism with a human face.  This doesn't mean,
>however, that socialism was what the people really wanted, in my
>opinion.  Only that they resigned themselves to make the best out of a
>given situation.  As the events unfolded later, and freedom seemed
>within reach, the demands became more and more radical, expressing the
>REAL hopes and wishes of the people they did not even dare to imagine
>possible before.  I think this was the dynamics of the revolution.

I see it somewhat differently. The students, the oldest ones being 22 years
old, spent their formative years in an environment in which "capitalism" was
a dirty word. They also studied a version of modern Hungarian history which
condemned the church, the large landowners and capitalists. All this played a
powerful role in their thinking. But it was not only the brainwashed younger
generation which didn't want full-fledged capitalism (which, of course, they
never really experienced due to Hungary's economic backwardness). Not only
those with leftist leanings were anti-capitalists, but those people also,
belonging to the older generation, who were contemplating neither a socialist
nor a capitalist development for the country, but something different,
something between the two, something called "the third road," a slogan spread
by Hungary's populist writers during the 1930s. These populist writers could
come both from the right and from the left and indeed some of them ended up
in the Nazi camp while others ended up in the Communist party. In any case,
populism was, and is, a powerful force in Hungarian political life. In fact,
I consider today's so-called "national camp," directly influenced by populist
thinking. I even think that Imre Nagy, a long-time member of the illegal
communist party and after the early thirties a Muscovite, was influenced by
populism. (As a graduate student once I wrote an essay about this topic.
Unfortunately, I didn't keep a copy.) But even without any populist
influence, it is not at all surprising that the former MSZMP members embrace
capitalism only half-heartedly. It would be strange otherwise.

In the thirties Hungary also had a group of writers and thinkers which is
called the urbanite camp. They were people from Budapest and a fair number
came from Jewish-Hungarian families. They considered Hungary's backwardness
something which should be overcome and not glorified, and the model was the
"West." (These writers are mostly associated with the periodical called
*Nyugat,* meaning West. Not surprisingly one group of populists established a
periodical, called *Kelet nepe," meaning People of the East!)

This division in Hungarian political thinking is still plaguing us. We still
have our populists and our urbanites, except today we call them something
else. Most of our discussions center around core questions, such as, "Whither
Hungary," to some kind of uniquely national paradise, or to a more
cosmopolitan, international, Western, capitalistic world. Most of our
discussions on the Forum, and to some extent on Hungary too, revolve around
this very basic question. And, given the miserable economic situation,
anti-capitalism, always strong in Hungary, is growing.

But to return to 1956. The whole revolutionary episode was too short for
political differences to come to the surface. As long as there was a common
enemy (the Soviet Union) there was unity. But by the end, I, as a
20-year-old, had the distinct feeling that socialism was losing out. I wasn't
even sure about the political fate of Imre Nagy. Powerful passions were
unleashed against a very brutal regime, and the reaction would have been most
likely very strong, propelling public opinion to the other end of the
political spectrum.

Eva Balogh

P.S. By the way, Joe, I took out a map of Budapest and tried to figure out
which group of students marched close to Ostrom utca around 2-3 o'clock in
the afternoon, and I cannot come up with anything. The students from the Pest
side were nowhere close: We marched on Szent Istvan korut, then Margit-hid,
and from there to Bem Jozsef ter, via a side street called Lipthay utca.
+ - Re: transulation please (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Mon, 23 Oct 1995, Michelle Marie Metro-Roland wrote:

> I do not want to start another buta argument (no pun intended) but I am
> still working on my Church-State relations article and I need a good
> translation. One that is not necessarily literal, but captures the
> true meaning. here is the quote (from a 1958 Kozponti bizottsaga
> politikai bizottsagnak hatarozata.)
>
> A socializmus gyozelme, az osztalytarsadalom felszamolasa megszunteti a
> vallasi ideologiak tarsadalmi baxisat. A tudomanyos elorehaladas a
> termeszet- es a tarsadalomtudomanyok, valamint a gondolkodas teruleterol
> fokozatosan kiszoritja a vallas misztikus, tudomanytalan tanitasait,s
> ezaltal megszunteti a vallas szellemi alapjait--a tudatlansagot.
>
> my transulation is as follows;
> The dissolvement of the class society, the socialist triumph, is putting
> an end to religion's ideological social basis. Scientific advancement,
> nature, sociology, as well as the cognitive domain will gradually
> supercede religion and it's unscientific teachings. They will put an end
> to religion's spiritual base--ignorance.
> It is a bit ridged and I am not sure if I have transulated the meaning
> correctly. It is important that I do. If anyone has any suggestions,
> please write. Thank you much
> dini metro-roland
>

The following may be somewhat closer to the meaning and pomposity of the
original:

The victory of socialism, the abolition of class society, will eliminate
the societal basis of religious ideologies. Scientific progress will
gradually oust the mystical, unscientific teachings of religion from the
spheres of the natural and social sciences, and of cogitation; it will
thereby do away with the spiritual basis of religion: ignorance.


Louis Elteto
Portland State University
+ - Difference between native magyars (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

When I toured Serbia (Vajdasag), the woman I was with described being
treated differently by Magyars in Pecs. I had heard similar things by
those coming from Kolozsvar or Temesvar to study in Hungary. Is there
anyone else that could comment on this phenomenon or perception?

The woman from Szabadtka/Subotica talked of here identity being both
Magyar/Croat and Yugoslav. It was a strange and emotional discussion for
her, one that I could not really relate to. Well, let the commentary roll.

Additionally, sorry to have not found the notes from teh trip to Serbia.
I hoep that they are just in a box I have yet to unpack. (Does it always
take someone a year to unpack or is it the hatred of the moving process
that impedes it :-)

Darren Purcell
Department of Geography
Florida State University
+ - Re: Hungary-report (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Andy K:

>I just hope most of you have read this essay by Laszlo Petrovics-Onfer.
>There are too many other stories wich are related to 56.
>Hatred and revenge was part of this uprising also.
>This is one reason I left Hungary.I did not want to be husled somewhere or
>shot at sight again.

What Hungary report are you talking about?  Though I haven't seen it, I
think I can guess its thrust based on his previous posts and yours.
Considering the magnitude of the uprising, revenge taking was relatively
quite small, IMHO.  Certainly smaller than the revenge taking after '45
and '56.

I don't quite understand what you meant by not wanting to be shot again?
By whom?  The way you put it, it sounds like from the revolutionaries.
I don't think you had to worry about them if you were not formerly part
of the communist terror apparatus.

Joe Pannon
+ - Re: The nature of 1956 (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Eva Balogh wrote:

>I see it somewhat differently. The students, the oldest ones being 22 years
>old, spent their formative years in an environment in which "capitalism" was
>a dirty word. They also studied a version of modern Hungarian history which
>condemned the church, the large landowners and capitalists. All this played a
>powerful role in their thinking. But it was not only the brainwashed younger
>generation which didn't want full-fledged capitalism (which, of course, they
>never really experienced due to Hungary's economic backwardness). Not only
>those with leftist leanings were anti-capitalists, but those people also,
>belonging to the older generation, who were contemplating neither a socialist
>nor a capitalist development for the country, but something different,

We must have had different experiences, perhaps largely due to our
different background.  If anybody, my age group certainly should have
been brainwashed by '56 because I started going to elementary school
right after the war.  Yet, the brainwashing attempt totally failed
because whatever we heard in the school or public, was neutralized at
home and at the church.  I can't see how Eva could have different
experience, considering the harsh AVO years of the early '50s, when
virtually everybody was worried about those 2 AM door bell sounds.
Especially in the cities.  In the country side, the forced
collectivization was a sure antidote for any successful brainwashing.

Now that's probably true that most people did not want to replace what
they had then with what they had before the war.  But to me
Eva's premise, as I understand it, is unrealistic.  In my opinion the
kind of system that existed in Hungary before the war was not a
realistic alternative to the socialist/communist system.  The capitalist
system in most Western European countries after the war wasn't identical
to the one before the war, so why assume that it would be any different
in Hungary?  I wouldn't even necessarily call it a "third way", though
the concept certainly had a school in Hungary, as Eva pointed out.

Whatever ideas people might have had about the future, most of them
tended to agree about the immediate task at hand: to get rid off the
hated communist system if at all possible.  That explains the unusual
unity we all experienced in those heady days.
I'm sure if the revolution's success had lasted longer than
those 10 days or so, the eventual differences about the future path
would have split that unity, just as we have seen it happening in our
time, since 1989.  That also seems to be the dynamics of most
revolutions.

>P.S. By the way, Joe, I took out a map of Budapest and tried to figure out
>which group of students marched close to Ostrom utca around 2-3 o'clock in
>the afternoon, and I cannot come up with anything. The students from the Pest
>side were nowhere close: We marched on Szent Istvan korut, then Margit-hid,
>and from there to Bem Jozsef ter, via a side street called Lipthay utca.

I've thought about this again, and it just occured to me that they may
have been the students from the Phys Ed Academy (Testnevelesi Foiskola),
which was (and may still be) in Alkotas utca, not far from the Southern
Railroad Station (Deli p.u.).  That location and the direction of the
march would fit.  It would be nice to have this confirmed by some
graduate of that school.

Joe Pannon

AGYKONTROLL ALLAT AUTO AZSIA BUDAPEST CODER DOSZ FELVIDEK FILM FILOZOFIA FORUM GURU HANG HIPHOP HIRDETES HIRMONDO HIXDVD HUDOM HUNGARY JATEK KEP KONYHA KONYV KORNYESZ KUKKER KULTURA LINUX MAGELLAN MAHAL MOBIL MOKA MOZAIK NARANCS NARANCS1 NY NYELV OTTHON OTTHONKA PARA RANDI REJTVENY SCM SPORT SZABAD SZALON TANC TIPP TUDOMANY UK UTAZAS UTLEVEL VITA WEBMESTER WINDOWS