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||Benes Decrees Revisited (mind)
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||Re: Southern Slovakia in 1938-1945 (mind)
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||Let's discuss politics (mind)
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||Re: World Association of Hungarians (mind)
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||Re: Gloomy Hungary (mind)
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||Re: Hungarian readiness for NATO (mind)
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||To Balogh Eva (mind)
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||Hungarian Foundation (mind)
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||going to Hungary in April (mind)
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||Re: World Federation of Hungarians (MVSZ) (mind)
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||Renault America (mind)
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||Re: going to Hungary in April (mind)
|| 31 sor
||meeting others through personal ads (advertisement) (mind)
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||unsubscribe hungary-l Thank you! vb (mind)
|| 1 sor
||sign off hungary-l (mind)
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|+ - ||Re: Let's discuss politics! (mind)
Eva Balogh wrote:
> By the way, I was highly amused that Charlie thinks that my sympathies lie
> with the liberals. He should ask some people on the left of me what they
> think of me! I am a huge disappointment to the so-called liberals!
As has been pointed out a number of times,
LEFT =X= LIBERAL,
LEFT .NE. LIBERAL,
LEFT does not equal LIBERAL,
in the European and European-derived political cultures, hence in Hungary.
The US-specific washing together of the two concepts is only applicable
to the US.
|+ - ||Re: Economic Meltdown.... (mind)
> It seems that the economy is out of control.. Since Horn is unable to
> drastic financial measures, I expect a Mexico type meltdown by the summer.
> Any comments ?
1. 2000Ft/months tuition fees to be paid by university students;
2. Quote: "A szegenyek es a raszorulok erdekeben megszuntetik a
GyED-et, a csaladi potlekot, es GyES-t is csak a nagyon raszorulok
kapnak". ("for the sake of the poor" practically all child-
benefit payments will stop to the average family, bringing
in "targetting" schemes, tried and failed in the UK.
3. 9% devaluation of Ft.
All in one day - what is your proposition? I suggest, privatise
the people. Slavery would bring so much revenue. All these interim
measures upsetting people anyway and the DEBTS STILL WILL NOT BE
PAID, because it's bloody impossible. Please one of you tell me,
for how many years, what percentage of the nat. income you envisage
to be taken for the IMF and the financial maffia to be happy??
|+ - ||Re: Media watch (mind)
: The price of
: potato is somehow connected with "the building of capitalism" because if
: there were full-fledged capitalism in Hungary the price of potato wouldn't be
: so high. In real, western capitalism the state interferes, and even the
: merchants are careful not to upset "the balance." Whatever that means.
Oh, well, it's just possible that Mr Hazafi had farm price supports in
mind, or perhaps the EU CAP (if it's still called that).
|+ - ||Benes Decrees Revisited (mind)
RE: Opinion of the Czech Constitutional Court on the Benes Decrees
According to news reports from Europe, a recent decision of the Czech
Constitutional Court let stand some of the infamous Benes Decrees.
These, as it is known, deprived ethnic Hungarians and Germans of
Czechoslovakia of their civil rights, property and ordered their
deportation from their ancestral homelands. The court changed
"collective guilt" of the Germans and Hungarians to "collective
responsibility" but still refuses to compensate the victims.
Since such concepts are not recognized in international law or in ay of
the instruments (laws) among the states of the West or of the states
themselves, it would be of some interest to know the exact text and
legal reasoning behind the court's opinion. If you have access to a
translated copy, I think that some of us in this Discussion Group would
be interested in reading it.
Thank you in advance.
|+ - ||Re: Southern Slovakia in 1938-1945 (mind)
------------------- the last part ---------------------------------
School matters in southern Slovakia initially influenced - although also
strengthened at a later time - political tendencies, which attempted to bring
Eastern and Western Slovaks against one another. In an attempt to create an
independent "Slovyak langauge" from an eastern Slovak dialect an idea
surfaced that the teaching language in the eastern Slovak schools would be
"the Slovyak language". The PM Teleki himself issued the order
to the minister of culture Homan, to investigate this question .
The preparation works were initiated for the introduction of the "Slovyak"
teaching language. From the textbooks for the minority schools with "Slovyak"
teaching language was worked up the grammar book "Abeceda"/Alphabet;
at the Ministry of culture a survey was put together of the pedagogues who
were from the "Slovyak" area, that they could be later transfered to schools
to this area. The municipal organs upheld the establishing of the "Slovyak"
teaching lang. in all ways possible  with the assumption that
the "Slovyak" children will be forced to attend Hu schools in areas where
they would not have been able to establish "Slovyak" schools .
In summer of 1942 Kallay's gov. stopped the "Slovyak" action against which
there were emphatic protests from the Slovak side . And thus the
establishment of a "Slovyak" teaching lang. was not implemented even then.
Different associations and organizations filled with Hungarization tendencies
were closely associated with the Hu school policy in the annexed territory,
their diligence was often referred to even the littlest children.
The State attempted to change the Sk kindergarden to a Hu one (Lucenec).
The organization United Lady's Camp (Egyesult Noi tabor) accomplished that
Hun. harvest refuges were establishment for Sk children in Sk villages.
They wanted todraw students of Kosice's Sk parallel school to join Hu scouts.
Amongst students of the trade school they recruited for joining TURUL
(Turul Bajtarsi Szovetseg) association demonstrating exaggerated and noisy
patriotism . Teleki sent scout divisions to the annexed territory that
through the singing of Hungarian songs with a Sk text they would teach
the Sk youth to love Hu songs. Gendarmes and the public administration
disliked the sight of Teleki's scouts, suspected them and kept them under
Slovak theatre performances, which had a great tradition, declined,
because municipal organs did not allow performances of even such innocent
plays, as even Palarik's Drotar/The Tinker . The Folk-enlighnment and
upbringing outside the school declined too. The gendarmes disposed of
the library materials of a wide-spread network of public libraries, which in
the territory inhabited by Magyars also included copious funds of Hu books.
Confirmed forms of public education perished e.g. cooperative schools and
agro-schools. Interest in educational lectures fell to a minimum .
The Hu organs' jealousy of the public enlightnment also suppressed
the activity of SzMKE (Szlovenskoi Magyar Kultur Egylet) .
The most zealous reviver of SzMKE's activity was Gyula Fleischmann,
who told :"In the reannexed territory we unconditionaly need a social
organization, which will strengthen Magyars on cultural matters effectively,
it will actively be interested in the small islands of dispersed Magyars and
will actively pursue the official minority policy of the Hungarain state,
it will execute a similar mission as the Slovak league in the minority area
with regard to Magyars" . In agreement with this program it was renamed
to Sechenyi Magyar Kultur Egylet. The representatives of SzMKE Kosice's club
were invited in autumn 1939 to Budapest to the department of nationalities
and minorities in the office of PM to negotiate "re-Magyarization, resp.
the strengthening of the Hu national character of re-formational inhabitants
despersed eastward from Kosice in Olsava river valley" .
The activity of SzMKE's in the years 1942-43 unfolded: in Perbenik, Kosice,
Roznava, Levice, Vrable, Nove Zamky; in people's Universities, resp.
in courses of people's Universities a series of lectures were carefully
prepared, which later on also became filler material of public universities
in northern Transylvania and the occupied southern territories .
Participants of these public universities or their courses were exclusively
recruited from Hu circles, they then pledged the ceremonious promise in
the final ceremony: "I promise that my land, shop, workshop and plant will
always be Magyar. I will increase all that in the interest of my nation,
my working brothers in most modern way; if I should separate from it
I will hand it over to a Hu citizen only. In all economical life, in market,
in shop I will give preference first of all to my Magyar brothers, I will
not allow that a citizen of a different race or ethnicallity would gain
economical power over me or my brothers. Finally, I promise, that I will not
be satisfied until the Hungarian power reaches the 1000 yr. borders" .
In the interest of the "Sk-Hu common fate" the public's enlighment
amongst the Sk inhabitants was handed to "reliable Hu" pedagogues, who
knew Slovak and their lectures were enrichened by recitations, singing, etc,
and for the enlivenment they joined even their pupils - students of higher
classes of Sk gymnazia. The more self-conscious students soon distinguished
the tendency of this sort of public awareness and refused to participate
in these actions and they also "enjoined" their friends to do alike.
A disciplinary meeting of the professorial staff of the Sk Kosice gymnazium
on 30.IV. 1940 established impeachment proceedings against Anna Vlc~kova' an
VIIth class student, a charge of provoking against "St. Stephen state idea",
because she wanted to convince her schoolmates that "lecture in the series
of people's enlighment is Hu propaganda which Slovaks could not partake of".
Though some members of the teaching staff argued with "do not make needless
martyrs of Slovaks" however the majority of them decided to prohibit study
to A. Vlckova in all of Kosice's secondary schools because "it is self-
consciously committed delinquency, which the offender is not inclined
neither to be sorry for nor to be excused for" .
Slovak section of KALOT (Katolikus Legenyegyletek Orszagos Titkarsaga -
Regional secretariat of Catholic youth clubs)/The Association of Catholic
youth (ACY) also tried to propagate notions by Slovak words and associate
itself to the public instruction work. However as Fleischmann reported:
"Even this public instruction activity is in a patriotic spirit and
nevertheless the administrative organs make troubles in its unfolding...
In many places the gendarmes are cancelling meetings, resp. the undertakings
of KALOT and make troubles for their participants" . The propagating
of notions by Sk press was spread by Magyarorszagi Szlovak Kozmuvelodesi
Tarsulat /The Hu regional educational Sk club (HRTSC) by mediation of
a series of public-library brochures. In this series besides the edition
about the first Hu king "Sv. Stephen, 1. king of Hungary" / and about
the "History of farmers" also published were booklets about cultivating
the soil properly, about pastures, about fattening of sow, tax solicitor,
etc . Besides the callendars published in Slovak, a journal of the
society of St. Vojtech was also published "The good shepperd; SKM journal
"Pramen"/"The sping" did not make for popular reading. HRTSC planned to
renew the illustrated magazine "the Homeland and the World", which
was published prior to 1918. Although the gov's was of the opinion,
"that in the present situation, when even non-Magyars are in large numbers
purchasing Magyar illustrated amgazines, it would not recommend, that
these excellent Hungarization means be cast aside by publishing illustrated
papers in the minority languages" .
The political efforts, which were oriented toward dividing the Slovaks
- as in the school polics - were also reflected in the area of enlighment.
In the interest of the "Slovyak action" the association "Ojcizna Slovyacka"
was established, which tried to establish folk-enlighment lectures in the
"Slovyak tongue" and to supply amateur theatre societies with Slovyak plays
. But the "Slovyak" action could not develop on the folk-enlighment
scene because it was refused outright by the attitude of Sk population,
which this action evoked amongst the leading Slovaks in Hungary, and
in the leading circles of Slovakia, which supported them.
In the interest of extra-curricular folk-enlighment activity amongst
Slovaks an important role was performed by the lessons of Magyar lang.
The Commision for people's enlighment in Abov county established 16 courses
of the Hu lang. . Such courses were arranged in each county.
The Slow pace of acceptance of the Magyar lang. was proof that the idea
of the Magyar state remained completely strange for the Slovaks .
For this reason a proposal was studied in detail on how to gain Slovaks
by means of religion. According to this proposal old Slovak chuch hymnals
were to be introduced, in which it is said of the Lord's mother as if
she were the Patron of Magyars and which make the connection between
St. Cyrill and Method with the Arpad kings -Saints Stephen and Laszlo.
In another proposal "the National education" amongst Slovaks should be
realized in a manner exhibiting an individual social consiousness.
Individual divisions of scouts were to be established and other societies
composed of specially trained members, which would sing the hymns in church
with the people on Sundays and walking amongst the folks from house to
house, they would tell of their fate in the common Homeland .
Only in the autumn 1943 Hu gov. reached the decision, that instead of
various social actions, it needs to secure planned and systematic people's
enlighment activity for the minorities, which would be considered as
the state's role. Rejecting the direct Magyarization's tendencies in
people's enlighment activities it took the attitude, that this enlighment
work be realized in the mother language of the minorities, because only
this way will it be possible to achieve, that "our minorities attain
the correct knowledge about Magyars and the idea of the Hungarian state
and would more firmly adhere to the Magyar Homeland". This plan, which was
to have been realized first of all toward the Slovaks, had to be postponed
in consequence of the of German occupation of Hungary in MAR 1944.
Although all of the efforts, which they wanted to achieve with public
enlighment amongst the Slovaks in the name of "St. Stephen state idea",
were condemned to failure. In Hungary the Slovaks in a defensive action
succeeded in considerable measure to develop their own idea. In its
direction a large role was played by self-confident Sk youth, which
in the association of Slovak undergraduates in Hungary, in the support
group of students of secondary schools "Hviezdoslav" and in self-educating
groups of Sk secondary schools in spite of extraordinary obstacles found
a way to cultivate the national spirit and during vacation time realized
awareness action in the Sk villages .
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box 73/a, G 18250/1940.
Pal Teleki's letter to B. Homan from 24.6. 1940.
 Ibid, box. 144, P 18454/1942. G. Fleischmann's intimate report,
Budapest 18.11. 1940.
 Ibid, box 73, G 19050/1940.
 Ibid, box 144, P 21243/1942.
 Ibid, box 69, G 15375/1940. Major county lord of Novohrad county
Jozef Baross' report, Balassagyarmat 14.10. 1939.
 St. archives, Nitra, Major ispan's documents of Tekov-Hont county
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box 74, H 15933/1940. The director of
technical school's report in Kosice from 22. 11. 1939.
 KN, 1939/VIII, 1186. PM P. Teleki's speech from 3.12. 1940.
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 84, P 16898/1940.
Erno" Flachbart's records from 8.4. 1940.
 KN, 1939/VIII, 1050-51. Karoly Hokky's speech from 29.11. 1940.
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 54, E 15623/1939.
Dr. Janos Pusztai's report from 10.3. 1939.
 OL, Teleki Pal iratai. Teleki's letter to Homan from 17.5. 1940; 173
village clubs of SzMKE had 10 000 members.
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 240. Flachbart collection, 4/d.
Fleischmann's proposal to reorganization of SzMKE and its jobs.
Budapest 8.8. 1939.
 Ibid, box. 68, T 19482/1939. The debate was held with PM Teleki's
approval at 6.10. 1939.
 SzMKE "Working copybooks" from 1942-43 are in Orszagos Szechenyi
konyvtar, Budapest. The lecture series "Magyars in war" included
the history from their arrival in the homeland to their participation
in the war against SU. 2nd lecture series "The builders of the future
of the Magyar homeland" arranged together the reaction politicians
and the popular writers in an original manner. 3rd group of lectures
"The destroyers of Magyar future" included questions
of "Jewish literature" in Hungary.
 Szechenyi Magyar Kultur Egyesulet, Szechenyi people's University,
Levice, 1942, 13-14.
 St. archives, Kosice, Major administration of Kosice school district,
box. 13, 5213/1939-40. Gymnazium teacher sitting records
from 30.4. 1940.
 See comment .
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 120, E 15946/1942 a box. 181,
P 15019/1943. Jan Hvozdzik-Juhasz - professor on secondary school
and former member of parliament for Hlinka's party - was interested
in publishing of books, he was reporter for culture of this society.
 Ibid, box. 144, P 21070/1942.
 Ibid, box. 144, P 23718/1942.
 St. archives, Kosice, Deputy county-lord's documents of Abov-Turnian
county, box. 2, 8829/1939.
A half year report of county commision for education from 26.5. 1939.
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 53, C 15350/1939. Major servant report
of Sturovo/Parkany district from 13.10. 1939.
 Ibid, box. 77, L 17434/1940.
 E.g. EMSZO=Egyhazko"zsegi Munka'sszakoszta'ly, KALOT = Katolikus
Agra'rifju'sa'gi Lege'nyegyletek Orsza'gos Titka'rsa'ga, KIE =
Kereszte'ny Ifju'sa'gi Egyesu"let, SDG = Soli Deo Gloria,
reformed student society.
 OL, ME, Nemzetisegi o., box. 214, P 18895/1944 a box. 215,
 M. Vietor - Formy a konkretne prejavy odboja proti horthyovskemu
okupacnemu rezimu. (Slovenske narodne povstanie r. 1944. Zbornik
prispevkov z narodnooslobodzovacieho boja 1938-45. Bratislava, 1965,
165-190.) /Forms and concrete displays against Horthy's occupation
regime. (From the conference about Slovak national uprising in 1944)
------------------------- the end ------------------------------------
|+ - ||Let's discuss politics (mind)
Charlie Pinter's criticism is quite valid. I somewhat overemphasized the sins
of the MSZP in comparison to the activities of the SZDSZ. The reason is most
likely the preeminence of matters economic in current Hungarian politics,
where the SZDSZ has fewer sins than the MSZP. But the activities of Gabor
Fodor as minister of education and culture also deserve criticism. One may
add that the constant squabbling between coalition partners doesn't help
matters either. But let me turn now to something Greg was talking about: the
SZDSZ has no choice but to stay in the government, at least for the time
being! And it all goes back to their decision to join it in the first place.
Greg may recall that I was one of those people on this list last May who was
very much against SZDSZ joining the socialists in a coalition government. I
was very much hoping that they wouldn't and declared them to be fools if they
do. Thanks to the attitude of the right-wing parties toward the SZDSZ as a
result of their decision to join, the SZDSZ right now is in a terrible bind.
They are stranded with an unpopular austerity program and both the left and
the right at their throats. I just read something interesting on the Forum
this morning. A contributor from Budapest called attention to the fact that
Ivan Peto (president of SZDSZ) was participating in a discussion at MDF
headquarters in Lakitelep. And that the new finance minister was also a guest
there. It is possible that Peto is trying to mend fences in order to be able
to extricate the party from the coalition. But at the moment the SZDSZ has no
Now, if they had decided against joining the government last May, the
situation would be very different. They would not be squeezed between the
opposition and their coalition partners. By adding substantially to the
opposition they could have effectively criticized the socialists for ruining
the economy (which is happening anyway with them in government). Moreover, it
is clear that the MSZP is not a homogenous party and with a more responsible
opposition the party's 54 percent of seats may not have lasted for too long.
I assume that Ivan Peto is not a stupid man and he sees what an impossible
situation his party got itself. By the way, I do agree with Charlie that this
coalition will not last but if the SZDSZ wants to remain a viable political
party they first must create a political climate more conducive for their new
role in the opposition.
By the way, I was highly amused that Charlie thinks that my sympathies lie
with the liberals. He should ask some people on the left of me what they
think of me! I am a huge disappointment to the so-called liberals!
P.S. I sent this piece twice to the list but for some strange reason it
didn't get there.
|+ - ||Gloomy Hungary (mind)
The 10 March 95 Wall Street Journal put Hungary on the front page, with
the title "In Gloomy Hungary, Suicide takes on a Life of Its Own".
is a snippet of the piece by Ernest Beck.
Hungarians learn from childhood that many of their country's heroes
have chosen suicide. Count Istvan Szechenyi, who fought against
feudalism and built the first bridge across the Danube river, put a gun
to his head. One of the country's most-beloved poets, Atilla Joszef,
jumped in front of a train. In 1941, Prime Minister Pal Teleki shot
In the 1930s, a popular song titled "Gloomy Sunday" was blamed for a
spate of deaths. Composed by a Hungarian songwriter and made popular
Billie Holiday, the song glorifies death with mournful, morbid lyrics:
Little white flowers won't wait for you,
Not where the black coach of sorrow has taken you.
Angels have no thought of ever returning you.
Would they be angry if I thought of joining you?
The song became "the national anthem of Hungarian suicides," says
Hungarian playwright Peter Muller, author of a popular drama about the
song's legacy. The Communists banned "Gloomy Sunday" in the 1950s as
"too pessimistic," he says. Later, the composer committed suicide.
More recently, a teenage beauty queen died after taking an overdose
of her father's heart medicine. Her death received so much media
attention it was blamed for copycat suicides. At least one youth tried
to kill himself at her grave.
Theories abound as to why Hungarians are so doom-laden. Some blame
linguistic isolation--Hungarian has no relation to any European toungue
except Finnish--or the fact that nobody knows where Hungarians really
come from. Their origins can only be traced to somewhere beyond the
[theories blaming Turks, Hapsburgs, `wrong side of both world wars'
Suicide rates surged under Stalinism, particularly after the failed
1956 uprising, and only fell slightly since Communism collapsed in
Hungary topped World Health Organization statistics on suicide from
the early 1970s until 1993, when Russia and the Baltic republics showed
higher rates. The national statistics office in Hungary that year re-
ported 36 suicides per 100,000 people for this country of 10.5 million.
That's three times the rate of neighboring Romania.
Beate Temesvary, one of Hungary's only dozen or so suicidologists,
notes that suicide rates among ethnic-Hungarians in Romania and among
emigres as far away as Canada and Australia usually exceed the national
averages in those countries.
|+ - ||Re: Media watch (mind)
I hate to tell you, but here in the Wise West, there are
very wide variety of opinions about the economy, and
whichever advise was followed by governments, the results
were not necessarily positive by far. And I did not even
mentioned the economic analysis given by the Sun or the
> Not everybody has to know elementary economics but one would like to see
> journalists writing on economic topics to have some idea what they are
> talking about. There is a certain responsibility of journalists: they must
> not mislead the public. Unfortunately, articles like these are not helping to
> explain the Hungarian public what is ailing the economy.
> Eva Balogh
|+ - ||Re: World Association of Hungarians (mind)
> Which they were, but they had to use the carrot vis-a-vis overseas
> Hungarians who escaped socialist jurisdiction. In the process, overseas
> Hungarians benefited. Just an another one of the cases where the past
> regime did some good things, but of course it was paid for by taxpayers
> in Hungary.
I think you need to rephrase that, there were no "taxpayers" in
the Kadar years. How the American regime finances oversees cultural
stuff? I am just interested...
|+ - ||Re: Gloomy Hungary (mind)
> Beate Temesvary, one of Hungary's only dozen or so suicidologists,
> notes that suicide rates among ethnic-Hungarians in Romania and among
> emigres as far away as Canada and Australia usually exceed the national
> averages in those countries.
I just wonder - how many suicidologists would be sufficient?
|+ - ||Re: Hungarian readiness for NATO (mind)
Attila Gabor wrote:
> Well, for one, after the U.S. turned down the HU. request for F-111's (as
> fighter bombers could not be easily justified as defensive weapon - if
> need more info let me know)
Yes, I would like to know more about the Hungarian request for F-111s,
and I think others may be too.
|+ - ||To Balogh Eva (mind)
Thank you very much for your reply to my remarks on the coalition. I
think we basically agree: I also emphasized (in my second letter, written as
an answer to questions) that joining the coalition was a hairy issue for
SZDSZ and by doing so, they reduced their manouevring space very much,
starting a potentially dangerous game. The only difference between us, in my
perception, is that I feel a constant trace of palpable sympathy for SZDSZ
behind your contributions at large, which I don't share. I have my strong
reservations about SZDSZ as about all major Hungarian political parties. This
is what I meant to refer to with my (perhaps unfortunately phrased) remark
that I think you can be considered a "liberal". Of course, when I wrote this
I meant "liberal" in the Hungarian sense, meaning somebody who stands close
to the ideas of SZDSZ. I know very well that "liberal" in the US is not the
same, and your general ideas, so far as I could reconstruct them, fit the
overall American Republican agenda more than the American Liberal.
But please don't take this as a personal insult because I do not
intend to "label" you or anything like that: I just wanted to explain my
previous remark, that's all. I hope you find this letter just as amusing as
the last one.
|+ - ||Re: Attila the Hun - firstname.lastname@example.org (mind)
I was also told by my father that further to what I have already said,
it was also taught in school that Attila the Hun was buried in three types of
coffin; something to the order of:wood, bronze and then gold (?).
|+ - ||Hungarian Foundation (mind)
Hungary's leading graphic artist
Opening Reception: Sunday March 26, 1995, 3:00-6:00 p.m.
The exhibit will run from March 26 - May 26, 1995
Museum hours: Tuesday - Saturday 11 to 4, Sunday 1 - 4
American Heritage Center
American Hungarian Foundation
300 Somerset Street
New Brunswick, NJ
Tel.: (908) 846-5777
|+ - ||going to Hungary in April (mind)
Hello Everyone -
I just got on this list. I am going to be in Hungary the 1st or 2nd week in
April. Budapest for sure, I don't know where else. Does anyone have any
suggestions? I am backpacking and doing the youth hostel/cheap thing. Any
must-see sights? I am thinking of going to Tokaj. Has anyone been there?
What is it like? I would like to find a small, interesting, rural-type town
to visit. Something completely different from Budapest. It would be great if
someone knew someone in a small town that would like to get together for a
drink or something. I'd like to meet people.
Also, what about Eger?
Any suggestions on accomodations? Thanks a lot for any info!!! You may reply
to my e-mail address below.
Heidi Hood (913) 551-5088
Computer Data Systems, Inc.
EPA Region VII
Environmental Services Division
25 Funston Road
Kansas City, KS 66115
|+ - ||Re: Media watch (mind)
Greg Grose writes:
> : The price of
> : potato is somehow connected with "the building of capitalism" because if
>:there were full-fledged capitalism in Hungary the price of potato wouldn't be
> : so high. In real, western capitalism the state interferes, and even the
> : merchants are careful not to upset "the balance." Whatever that means.
> Oh, well, it's just possible that Mr Hazafi had farm price supports in
> mind, or perhaps the EU CAP (if it's still called that).
Don't underestimate the price of potatos. I don't know the
situattion in Hungary, but in Slovakia there is a theory that the
current Meciar government was re-elected and the Party of the
Democratic Left (SDL) lost its leadinng opposition role because of potatos.
There is probably some truth in it. The habit of most Slovaks is
to buy many sacks of potatos in the fall when the fresh crop comes in,
so as to have some in storage over the winter. Last summer was
exceptionally hot and dry in central Europe and the normally abundant
pototo crop was poor. Just as election time approached, the prices
skyrocketed. The government, then a coalition led by the
SDL, took the Western-approved, righteous position that private
enterprise must be upheld and normal business will take care of
It went \o far as to say governments cannot interfere in the normal
price and supply/demand situation of the free market.
Hoarders and black-marketeers then bought up the available
potato crop and held on for higher prices. There were even stories
about Slovak potatos being black-marketed into Hungary because of high
prices obtainable there. ONly in the last week of the election
campaign did the government impose price limits and crack down on
speculators so as to get potatos to market.
Needless to say, a lot of people noticed the government successfully
doing too late what it said could not be done earlier. It gave
capitalism a bad name. The SDL, which until then was far and away
the leading opposition party, lost 10 per cent of its normal vote and
is now just one of the opposition parties instead of the leading one.
For those with a historical turn of mind, it is to be noted that
the government of England also invoked the laws of the marketplace to
justify its inaction during the Irish potato blight and said the free
market would take care of it. It certainly did, as the Irish famine
became the biggest (and last) of the Western world's great famines.
To this day, Ireland has a smaller population than it did 150 years
ago, perhaps the only country of which this can be said.
Never underestimate the importance of potatos and the stupidity
Jan George Frajkor _!_
School of Journalism, Carleton Univ. --!--
1125 Colonel By Drive |
Ottawa, Ontario /^\
Canada K1S 5B6 /^\ /^\
o: 613 788-7404 fax: 613 788-6690 h: 613 563-4534
|+ - ||Re: Southern Slovakia in 1938-1945 (mind)
I sent it to the list last week but probably listserv was 'shutdowned'
and I did not receive the copy of this from the list for 4-5 days.
I appologize to all who has read this already.
----------------------- continuation -------------------------------
A large uproar was caused by an attempt to liquidite the Sk parallel of
the technical college in Kosice. 22 of the 24 enrolled first year students
class did not pass the acceptance exams in 1941/42; well it was not deemed
appropriate to open a parallel school for the remaining 2 students.
An emphatic intervention of Sk goverment was necessitated,  so that
in next school year the 29 pupils would succesfully pass the accepting exam
and thus the 1st year class of the Sk parallel school was established .
The Sk goverment stricly adhered to the reciprocity principle;
the Hungarian administrative organs sabotaged the establishment of a Slovak
commercial school in Kosice, the establishment of a Hu commercial academy
was not allowed to be proceed, though it was agreed upon in principle .
The Hu goverment was very narrow-minded in the question of universities.
The minister of agriculture downgrade an agricultural academy to an mid-
level apprenticeship mid-level school for the reason that the academies
in the motherland turn out enough agronomists with a diploma .
Though many people were of the opinion that some sort of a university
should be established in the "Upper Land" so "that its educational influence
could be felt in the environment infected by marxism-leninism" .
But the technical university planned for Kosice was not established. Students
who could no longer attend the university in Bratislava were placed at
universities in motherland where after verification "loyalty to nation"
they could enroll themselves even above the established enrollment limits.
There were sufficient examples of Slovak families preferring to send
their children to Bratislava to secondary school or university .
High school-fees at all levels of school weighed heavily upon parents
in Hungary. Those, who started to study still during the time of CS, were
unpleasently touched. In all types of schools, from elementary to university,
the school fees were substantially higher . Therefore, upon the annexed
territory, a reduction in school fees was ordered by decree of 2.9. 1939
for those who had started studying in CS. But this advantage was not
applicable to those that had started to study in time of annexation by Hu.
The school fees for the students in the motherland did not change .
Cost for undergraduate study, merely fees for enrollment, school fees and
mandatory taxes were from 3 to 4 times higher in Hungary than in CS .
For the Hungarian government, which wanted to unify the conditions also
in the educational matters of the annexed territory with the conditions
in the motherland, problems also arose from, that in the annexed territory
there were 8-year elementary schools and in the motherland only 4-year and
some places thre were 5-6 year ones. In reality however, the children living
in the countryside did not attend school regularly at all, they worked in
the fields. The unification was solved by the decree of NOV 1939, which
established the 8-year elementary school .
Eventhough this law was celebrated as a heroic feat, still it did not secure
a real 8-year non-disrupted attendance at school and did not guarantee
a possibility to get a uniform universal basis of knowledge, because
the subject matter in the higher classes in towns was orientated toward
industrial matters and in the villages toward agricultural matters.
With various tricks in the organization of the educational programs and
through the establishment of several months of apprenticeships children's
hands were further secured for the industry, though mainly for agriculture.
The question of securing a sufficient number of reliable teachers for
the annexed territory kept the organs directing the cultural politics busy.
Those ostensibly least reliable, who were deported by military administration,
would have to be quickly substituted for by Hungarian teachers, who spoke
the Slovak language. However it was not possible to secure them in
sufficient numbers, but noone was trouble by that, at least the Hungariazation
process would be faster. The "purge" continued on and in the verification
of "loyalty to the Nation" a whole lot of teachers were purged mostly due
to having been members of political parties in CS. "...Amongst the professors
and teachers, who are directly responsible for the national education, there
must be more stringent viewpoints against anti-Hungarian offences...".
After the United Hungarian party and the Ministry for "Felvidek/Upper land"
ceased to exist some rehabilitations were realized , but it did not
change in reality that the vacated places were occupied by pedagogues from
the motherland, where already for years an excess was apparent.
An important clerk of the Ministry of education issued orders to professors
appointed to the annexed territory: "Be pedagogic fighting units (szabad-
csapatok)"  So that instructing and education in the annexed territory
would be "in the unified Hungarian national spirit", in the summer of 1939
re-educational courses were organized for teachers in 33 locations and 2
courses were organized for the inspectors in Budapest.
Measures were adopted to secure school textbooks. Already on 3.11. 1938
the Council of Ministers admitted the need to change "all books established
by CS goverment which include subject matters in contradiction with the Hu
state idea and it is necessary to replace them with suitable ones, books
written in the patriotic spirit". The book issued for Slovak elementary
schools was titled Navrat/The Return. In each line of this book it was
stressed that the place of Slovaks is in the Hungarian empire .
>From the Slovak side they had righteous reservations against iredentistic
spirit of these textbooks; they requested, that Sk experts (pedagogues) be
empowered with the writing of these textbooks and that they be consulted
in the arrangement of the programs too. But in these matters only later
some concessions were achieved. The Hu Ministry of culture and education
would have been willing to realize a common super-revision of textbooks only
on the basis of reciprocity. The principal problem of Sk textbooks
remained the permanent lack of them, to which was also associated, that
in many schools even this small number of textbooks  were not be allowed
to be utilized. Thus e.g. in the Roman-Catholic elementary school in Polianka
the district school inspector prohibited the use of reedited Sk textbooks
and directed that in future Hungarian textbooks should be used exclusively.
Similarly, the inspector decided also in Rudnik, where in spite of the fact
that the pupils were Slovaks, he commanded to teach in Hungarian and did not
permit the use of Sk textbooks which were purchased by the lady teacher.
The instruction in the secondary schools was oriented more in the direction
of humanism in contrast to the CS technical and natural-science direction.
A methodical activity was started in the pedagoguegic associations. Pedagogic-
educational consultations preoccupied themselves with criticism of CS school
policies, (to which) a tendentious instruction of Hu literature in Hu schools
in CS was contempleted, in which e.g. Petofi's poems were forced "A magyar
nemes" (Hu nobleman), "Pato Pal ur", "Akasszatok fel a kiralyokat" (Hang kings)
"Respublica" or that the omission of Toldi's passage with the Czech warior
is explicitly anti-Hungarian, de-nationalizing tendency. Different evaluations,
not completely in agreement with this evaluation, occured very rarely, because
only such a teacher from could have expressed them, who had taught Hu school
in CS before 1938. The stressing of past anti-Hu denationalizing tendencies
should have in reality paved they way for de-nationalization tendecies against
Slovaks: "...Let's give it our complete soul, that the Magyarization would be
succeessfull, but in such a way, that the child would not know about it...
Lets be industrious to show the famous events of our history...
the time of strifes will be omitted entirely ...
Let the inhabitants of the border town Kosice, although they are less erudite,
just that they would be good Magyars! ... even though it were to the detriment
of the subject matter".
And thus e.g. in St. Urshula's gymnazium in Kosice there were often written
compositions of Hungarian language lessons on the theme of this kind:
"What would Koloman/Kalman Mikes have written to his aunt about the Hu army's
arrival in Kosice?". The main educational program of the schools with
the Slovak teaching language was the stressing of "the successes of the 1000
year homeland and the spirited proclamation of the St. Stephen's idea", that
in this spirit they would be educated "and not only them (pupils), but through
them also their parents" .
 OL, Kum, Pol, box. 430, pol. 65, 24/1942. Hu envoy's report
from Bratislava, 14.2. 1942.
 OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 143, P 16898/1942.
 Ibid, box. 89, B 19188/1941.
 KN, 1939/III, 209, 17.11. 1939. Viteza Mihaly Teleki's speech
( min. of agriculture)
 Fu"lei-Sza'nto Endre - Hogyan lehet bekapcsolni a visszate'rt
Felvideket telso"oktata'sunk ko"re'be. Budapest 1949, 6.
 P. Teleki's ( min. of education) decree from 26.11. 1938,
VKM c. 29700/1938, IV.
 OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 152, E24830/1943.
G. Fleischmann's report , Budapest 8.5. 1943.
 KN, 1939/III, 289, 22.11.1939. Jozef Kiraly's (deputy) speech.
 OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 60, L 18980/1939.
 KN, 1939/VIII, 80, 10.10. 1940. T. Matolcsy's speech.
 KN, 1939/III, 281, 22.11. 1939. Gusztav Szabo is explaining necessity
passing of this law : "In Felvidek, resp. on returned territory
it exists and thus we can not lag even".
 Ibid, 325-326. Minister of education Balint Homan's speech, 22.11. 1939.
 OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 85, P 21122/1940. "There is important
state interest that on schools with Sk teaching lang. pedagogues
with Hu nationality taught who know Sk lang. indeed".
 OL, Teleki Pal iratai. E. Farago's letter to Teleki from 4.1. 1941;
Teleki's answer from 13.1. 1941.
 OL, Records of Minister's Council from 12.7. 1940.
 KN, 1939/III, 22.11. 1939, 323-324. Min. of education B. Homan's
"There are 5920 new teacher's and professor's positions in Felvidek
and Rhutenia , in territory of Trianon's Hungary 1100 ones.
We will able to satisfy many applicants placing these positions
what is going to improvement of economical and social situation
of teachers and professors ... owing to extending territory with
"Upper land" we have many new emplyees today.
 St. archives, Kosice, Debreceni tankeru"leti kir. fo"igazgato'sa'g
iratai, box. 1. 47-4/1938-39 Fo" (General administration of
school inspectorators for liberated territory resided in Debrecen
in 1938-39, then it was removed to Kosice where it was named
"Kassai tankeru"leti kir. fo"igazdato'sa'g".)
 OL, Records of Minister's Concil from 25.7. 1939.
 Ibid, from 3.11. 1938.
 St. archives, Kosice, Kassai tankeruleti kir. foigazdagatosag, box. 4,
 OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., box. 143, P 15027/1942.
Emanuel Bohm's memmorandum to PM Kallay, Budapest 13.6. 1942.
 Ibid, box. 120, without pol./1942, 24850. Resolution from meeting
at 25.8. 1942.
 OL, Kum, Pol, box. 440, pol. 65, 145/1944. Hu envoy's in Bratislava
report at 17.8. 1944.
 OL, ME, Nemzetsegi o., bal. 144, P 18454/1942. The Kosice's bishop
Madarasz's letter to school inspector Jozsef Iva'nyi, Kosice
 see comment 65.
 St. archives, Kosice, Kassai tankeruleti foigazgatosag iratai, box. 15,
G 46. Records of pedagogic consultation in Kosice Hunfalvy
Janos's gymnazium at 25.4. 1939.
 St. archives, Kosice, Debreceni tank. kir. foig. iratai, box. 1,
47-4/1938-39. St. Urshula's girlish gymnazium - record of methodical
consultation from 22.3. 1939 "The special mission of education
of Hu literature in Felvideku/Upper land".
 Ibid, kox. 16, G 1. Record of teacher's staff session
in IIIrd Kosice Hu royal boy's and girl's school with Sk teaching
lang., 14.9. 1940.
|+ - ||Re: World Federation of Hungarians (MVSZ) (mind)
>From the response to my previous letter (March 13) it seems, that the
readers of this list are not too concerned about the lack of information
about the activities of the MVSZ. But I was pleased to read a news item in
the 1st electronically distributed issue of NARANCS, which suggests that I
am not the only one who is interested in the fate of this organization.
The item says that 52 intellectuals submitted a protest to the President of
the Hungarian Parliament demanding a renewal of the organization. The
protesters claim that the organization does not represent the views of the
majority of Hungarians and it is not democratic. Among those who signed the
petition were some who live abroad.
I wish one of the protesters would post the text of the petition in one of
the Hungary related internet channels (s.c.m, HIX, or this list). May be,
if much more than 52 people would indicate their dissatisfaction, the MVSZ
would change the way they operate, and it would become a much more open
organization. As a minimum they should have a newsletter or paper in which
they describe their activities.
|+ - ||Renault America (mind)
I arranged for a car from Renault America for travel this summer in Europe
(as I had previously in 1992). I was surprised to discover that the car cannot
be driven in Hungary and Poland. Interestingly, it can be driven in
Bulgaria and Romania(ferry to the Black Sea?). The Czech Republic
and Slovakia are also ok.
I was told by Renault that there has been a significant problem with auto
theft in Hungary and Poland which is the basis for the restriction.
Phone calls to other companies reveal that Peugeot cars can be driven in
Hungary and Poland (although one company said that Peugeot allows Hungary but
Anyway, food for thought.
|+ - ||Re: going to Hungary in April (mind)
Heidi Hood wrote:
> I just got on this list. I am going to be in Hungary the 1st or 2nd week in
> April. Budapest for sure, I don't know where else. Does anyone have any
> suggestions? I am backpacking and doing the youth hostel/cheap thing. Any
> must-see sights? I am thinking of going to Tokaj. Has anyone been there?
> What is it like? I would like to find a small, interesting, rural-type town
> to visit. Something completely different from Budapest. It would be great if
> someone knew someone in a small town that would like to get together for a
> drink or something. I'd like to meet people.
> Also, what about Eger?
> Any suggestions on accomodations? Thanks a lot for any info!!! You may reply
> to my e-mail address below.
Others may be interested too, hence this goes to the list.
I suggest to get Lonely Planet's Hungary guide. It is small, concise and
factual. I like their coverage of the sights. They aim at the budget
traveller and so far I found the price information in their other books
pretty accurate. (In the Hungary book, unfortunately, they did not follow
the approach for Latin America: give all prices in US dollars as local
inflation will make prices given in local currency meaningless. Hence,
convert prices given in the book to US dollars at the exchange rate at
publication, given in the front section, and expect their equivalent in
forints at the current exchange rate.)
Have a good trip.
|+ - ||meeting others through personal ads (advertisement) (mind)
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Several months ago I placed a personal ad in the papers of the
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I have purchased addresses through Family Intl as well as
other matchmaking companies and have found better success
meeting women through my own personal advertisement.
Olga Kosmina is willing to post your personal ad as she did
for me. She asks $50 for which your ad will run 2 weeks in
such publications as Viso Express throughout the Ukraine as
well as areas of western Russia.
Olga does not have e-mail, but you may reach her by sending a
letter of inquiry or if you wish, $50 and your personal ad to:
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Olga is an honest woman, has my complete trust and has asked
that I post this advertisement for her business. I am not
leaving my e-mail address because of the flames and revocation
of my account for having posted this.
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############# Personal ad placement service #############
|+ - ||Re: World Association of Hungarians (mind)
Eva Durant wrote:
> I think you need to rephrase that, there were no "taxpayers" in
> the Kadar years.
Oh dear, we have been through this a year or so ago.
Of course there were taxpayers in Hungary during the Kadar years.
Just because tax was collected in ways other than personal income
tax or VAT it doesn't mean none was collected.
> How the American regime finances oversees cultural
> stuff? I am just interested...
I have no idea, having trouble understanding the question for starters,
but then this is not a Hungarian issue, is it ?
|+ - ||unsubscribe hungary-l Thank you! vb (mind)
|+ - ||sign off hungary-l (mind)