> > On Fri, 4 Dec 1992, Durant wrote:
> >
> > > Well, you don't miss a lot by not reading the forwarded text.
> > > The jist of it is how nasty this present goverment is, which
> > > is the same commie bastards as before, with nothing else in mind than
> > > the destruction of the Hungarian People.
> > > My comment is, that any MDF/Fidesz/KgP etc. government would do exactly
> > > the same thing, with even worse consequenses for the poor.
> > > 
> > >
> > OK Eva explain yourself better please....are U saying that the courrent
> > commie govt is better than those listed? Do you think anyone but the
> > commies would destroy the country? Sounds like non-sense to me!
> > Peter
> Sounds like you don't read carefully fairly plain text. I said above,
> that all the government and the opposition parties are offering is
> the same market-economy
> a la US or a la Portugal, I just cannot spot the difference. Was the
> MDF different in any way? They all try to curb democracy while in
> power, but widen it while in opposition, do what the IMF and the EU
> and the Nato wants while in power, but mouth some sentiment against
> them while in opposition.  Some forever looks for Nasty Baddies
> Conspiring against Innocent Hardworing and Pure (Hungarians).
> How boring and idiotic.
> 
>
<<<<<<<<<<<
Eva please tell us why there is nsomething wrong with market-economics ala
US/Portugal(?) for Hungary? What is wrong with IMF/WB or NATO demanding
certain conditions? If one gives money to someone does one have the right
to require how that money is spent? [Perhaps you should go to a bank and
ask for a huge loan - which  you can barely repay - and see what they
have to tell you!]  How would NATO expect to operate unless HU meets a
set of criteria and requirements to join. --- Do HU's want to do what is
asked or are they paying lip service???  They told HU that their cost of
social welfare ratios of most countries. It must be reduced, ditto with
inflation, and govt size.  Yet really nothing has happened after ALL the
promises HU has made. It is BIG politcal nut that someone has to crack!

BTW, I am also surprised, that after leaving HU you still maintain your
alleagce to socialism, but perhaps in the birthplace of Marx it is
difficult to see the trees from the forest.

Peter Soltesz

On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Lajos MONOKI wrote:

> >One other pollution problem (and a tax problem) is the habit of diesel
> >taxi and car owners is to purchase heavily subsidized home heating fuel
>
> Two oils were absolutely the same: the only difference was the color. (Oil
> from other countries was colored on the border by customs - about 1 l of red
> "ink" to a tank-waggon)
>
> >instead of the more expensive diesel fuel. I undererstand that the home
> >heating fuel is now being "tainted" with a marker and the police can pull
> >a diesel car over to perform a test from the tank. If it has this stuff
> >in it, then whammo! you get a BIG fine.  I have yet to actually see or
> >hear of this happening. Anyone out there who knows better??
> >Peter Soltesz
> >
> Yes, there was a big problem with these two(?) types of oils. There was a
> big business based on making red oil "blonde" (so it was call in Hungarian
> olajszo:kite's). Now there is no difference in price: diesel oil is 118.5
> Ft/liter and so is heating oil.
>
> BTW: nobody from this "blonde-business" was really sentenced. Only little
> fishes were caught, big fishes are free (some say it is because ministers
> from previos government were in this business:( And maybe it is true.
>
> Lajos
>
Well Lajos, what you are saying is interesting. First, the heating oil
(Kerosene#2) no longer has any subsidy...I have not heard of that one.
I am sure that more people would be quite upset with that one...it used
to be like one-quarter (25%) of the diesel feul (oil) price.

The other thing is that - assuming it is true - then why cannot the govt
really do something about the corruption?? The obvious answer is that
they are ALL in it together and the average Joe cannot win.

Thus I would propose that HU needs a complete rewamping of their legal
system as follows:

1- Make every govt offcial liable and accountable for anything that happens
in HU under their watch!
2- Allow the people to investigate and prosecute corrupt officials even
retroactively.
3- Remove the incentive to be corrupt by removing the possibility of
working for the govt and private interest at the same time.
4-

I am running out of time and will continue after a response.
peter Soltesz

>Does anyone know the dates for the spring holiday at the University of
>Budapest (Budapest U.)?  Thank you.

Is there such thing, University of Budapest? As far as I know, there are
ELTE, Muszaki Egyetem, SOTE, and so on. 'Lemaradtam volna nehany korrel ?!?'
(~ My information maybe outdated.)

J.Zs

At 13:06 04/12/92 +0000, Eva Durant wrote:
>In the village where we lived 1983-87 there were two lines of wine
>cellars on the hillside, but in the village "italbolt" the vast
>majority was drinking beer on tap - don't ask me what type, I seem to
>be the only one who detest beer on this list...

<major snippetry>

>Anyhow, I've never tasted better wine than Badacsonyi Szurkebarat.
>And most hungarian made rieslings are just fine - desparately trying
>to get away from the beer-topic...


Finally something that you and I agree on, Eva! Wine is much more agreeable
than beer. The only beer that I ever drank that I enjoyed was a Corona,
which is produced in the Yucatan region of Mexico.

Viszont,

Johanne/Janka
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

E.Durant wrote:

>My main point was - if you'd read carefully, that if you can
>see no possibility of capitalism giving us a secure future,
>than we cannot sit back and wait/hope something will
>turn up, we have to actively consider alternative solutions.
>If you come up with something better, than socialism, I'm all
>ears.

Fine, I just want to show that your solution is not a solution.
It is possible to do without offering alternative solutions. I
know that you would like to put me on defense, to destroy an idea
is much easier than to defend it. That is the only playground
for you, to attack an existing system, but whenever you have to
defend your ideals you are in real trouble.

>Again, if I give you my practical picture for change, you
>tell me I'm pushing my dogma, and I agree. I think each community
>will have their own solution, there won't be a centralised
>"method" - if there will be a working democratic change.
>There are already such embrionic changes, self governing
>communities,  workers' coops overtaken factories, schemes
>of work done for exchange without money (world wide

Again, you have no practical picture. What you have is
not more than beliefs, hopes, or in two word, practically
nothing. It is not even enough to be an argument in an
electronical debate like this.

>LETS)  etc etc. At some point such moves accelerate
>exponentially and quantity turns into quality...

You see, at least you learned the slogans on your Pol.gazd classes.

>You don't say! The Champions of Democracy would give all
>the assistance to a fledgling democracy... (bitter sarcasm).
>Well, you are ofcourse right; thats why the "socialism in one
>country" was a doomed idea from start. The way I picture it
>is, that if there is a successful looking change anywhere, we would
>now know about it globally, and could defend it and copy it
>if relavent to circumstances. Revolutions spread like fire in the
>past with primitive communications - just imagine how fast it all
>could spread now...

Much like how the slaughtering in Bosnia, Rwanda, etc was avoided by
this global publicity,am I right? But, you know, I should be thankful
to you. You yourself discredit your ideas with the statements like above.

>> So, I ask again, may I conclude that a small proletar dictatorship is
>> not that bad in your opinion, unless the democracy is not forgotten from
>> the recipee?
>>
>> J.Zs
>>
>
>Well, yes, democracy seems to be the most important ingredient...
>that is the gruelling lesson to be learnt from the past.
>Badly missed in Hungary  for the years I lived there, and
>badly missed here in the UK  to where I am also affectionately
>attached...

Well, Eva, I think there is no way out. No democratical change is
possible and the heroes of marxism were aware of this. And if you
have a dictatorship (whatever covername you introduce for it), it
is almost impossible to end up with a democracy. I think this is
the doom no.1 for marxism.

J.Zs

Peter,

Thank you, but I can defend myself from the likes of "Joe".  As I have stated
earlier, I have been reading this BB, an I like most of you, some better than
others (you are my brothers and sisters).  A few I detest.

I am not bothered by put downs from people I have no regard for.

I found the discussion on the number of MKP members interesting.  Sure, up to
half a million may have been party members to get better jobs, medicine for
their children, etc.  This was especially true during the 40 years after the
"szabadsagharc".  (We were so sure that we won.  Did you know that during the
weekend, before the final Soviet attack, the workers decided to return to work
and rebuild Budapest?)  The communist I have a special hatred for are the ones
who spied on their co-workers, tortured and murdered our people, and for those
who try to defend and justify their treasonous actions now.  Fortunately, we
had (have) very few of those.

Istvan

----------
From:  Hungarian Discussion List on behalf of Peter A. Soltesz
Sent:  Wednesday, December 04, 1996 7:39 PM
To:  Multiple recipients of list HUNGARY
Subject:  Re: Religious Holiday Decorations at Park Sites

On Wed, 4 Dec 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
> At 11:24 PM 12/4/96 UT, Istvan Lippai > wrote:
> <snip>
> >Christmas should be celebrated, particularly with the nativity scene
 displayed
> I don't mean to be a stickler, but don't you mean "naivety scene"?
> Joe Szalai

Oh come on Joe! Your naivetae is showing! Leave Istvan alone. Peter

At 12:59 AM 12/5/96 -0500, Janos Zsargo wrote to Eva Durant:

<snip>
>Well, Eva, I think there is no way out. No democratical change is
>possible and the heroes of marxism were aware of this.

This is very interesting, Janos.  If change can't happen democratically then
how does it happen?  Or, now that you're in a (fool's) paradise, you're not
interested in change any more.  Is that it?  Or, maybe, you're just looking
for a military man to follow.  I've read your posts over the past year and
I've noticed that you have a keen interest in military issues, so I really
wouldn't be surprised if you wanted to follow a real man, a military man.

There are better things in life, you know.

Joe Szalai

"All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions."
          Adlai Stevenson

My company recently shipped five trailor-loads of liquor (Whiskey, Scotch,
Rum, etc.) to Hungary, with the expectations that our business partners over
there were going to sell it.  The deal fell through, and now the liquor is
sitting in a warehouse in Budapest.

If anyone has any ideas, or knows of a potential buyer, please let me know.

Thank you.


Gary Rosenfeld

Johanne L. Tournier ) wrote:
: Hungarian name (I think it may be Dutch and that he originally came from
: South Africa, but I am not positive), would have selected such a small
: country to be the homeland of his hero. Does anybody have any ideas?

Ondaatje is a Dutch name, but he is native to Sri Lanka.  Fabulous novel,
by the way.

Best,
Jesse

Dear Mr. Lippai,

Welcome to the list. You're piece on the nativity was interesting. I like
traditions such as nativity scenes, too.

Could anyone please tell me where the Urals are near the Slovak boarder? Either
my geography's off or Slovakia extends a lot farther East than I suspected.
(See below:)


>      Mr. Lippai -
>
>      My name is Margaret Nash (maiden name - Melega).  I am first
>      generation American and my parents were both Hungarian.  My father was
>      from Budapest and my mother was from a small town called Homosa (I
>      hope I spelled that right) in the Urals near the Czechoslovakian
>      boarder.

However, I would like to make two comments in response to yours:

1) Yes, the church was persecuted under the communists. My own family is first-
   witness to this. However, throughout different periods in history, the
   Church has also done its share of persecusion when itself saw other beliefs
   as threats it its power. In this world there seems to be less innocence than
   we think.

2) Yes, the root word for Christmas is Christ (in English), but the roots of
   this holiday are not Christian at all. Also, when talking about the Founding
   Fathers of America, please remember that a number of them were not even
   Christians, but rather Deists. The backbone of this country gives people
   the right not to believe just as much as a right to believe.

Wow, we just got over the Thanksgiving debate....now comes the X'mas one. This
topic is not solely Hungarian, but it was posted several times on the List, and
I am responding to it. I hope this exchange of opinions is not offensive to
anyone.

A viszonti'ra'sra,
Mark

>
>Comments Anyone???
>Peter Soltesz
>
>
Tiborc panasza - szomoru.

Agnes

Will you help me
My father was AUREL BELA POLONYI
Born OKTOBER 15 1913 in TISZAPALKONYA

his father was POLONYI ANTAL
his mother GIBAS ANNA

is it possible to have news over members off the family

email : 

On Sat, 30 Nov 1996, Laszlo Balogh wrote:

> "Peter A. Soltesz" > wrote:
> >Here is one other thing that HU needs to eliminate!
> >Getting tickets and PAYING the fines ON-THE-SPOT!
> >I wonder how many millions of HUF wind up in the policemen's pockets?
> >Are the fines larger the "better" car you have -- you betcha!
<SNIP>
> I agree with the above and the same idea came to my mind, that On The
> Spot Fines are absolutely uncalled for and a corruptive.
...........>
> It's obvious, that these type of activities must be changed on part of
> the police and On The Spot Fines must be stopped. When are they going to
> wake up?
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I am quite surprised that very few people responded (especially form
Hungary!). Are the people there such sheep that they  do not even think
about things that affect their daily life or are things so engrained that
it is useless to try??
Peter

To Whom it May Concern:

I have two questions concerning the Berlin Wall. First, I've read often
about how it was the Hungarian authorities' willingness to permit East
German tourists to cross their borders to the West which eventually led
the East German authorities (and Soviet) to agree to tear down the Wall.
Where exactly in Hungary was this "escape route" to the West?

Secondly, about the Berlin Wall, I know it "separated East Berlin from
West Berlin," but what was to prevent East Germans outside of East
Berlin, say to the west of West Berlin (but still inside East Germany)
from getting into West Berlin, and then from there escaping to the West?

Other, related questions: were the railway and highway routes from West
Germany (Hamburg, Hanover, Frankfort) neutral, international routes, or
were they entirely East german-owned and controlled?

Could West Germans travel freely to East Berlin, or was movement in
either direction forbidden?

In other words, how was this Berlin Wall such a solution to the problem
of the mass exodus of East Germans to the West, if all it did was seal
only one side of the West Berlin border; surely the other three sides
were porous? Did the Berlin Wall COMPLETELY surround West Berlin?

Please forgive me for these inane questions. i hope they are not TOO
irrelevant for this discussion group!

Koszonom szepen.

Johanna Granville

>From the Armed Forces Journal International Dec. 1996 issue:

...The absolute bottom of incivility had to be Rep. Tom Lantos (D-CA)
telling White House Filegate aide Craig Livingstone that he stacked up
poorly compared to Admiral Mike Boorda because he failed to commit suicide.
<end>

In article >,  says...

Estonian translation added:

>Some Sumerian morphemes and modern U-A words.
>
>(Source: Cso"ke, S ndor, "Sum r-finn-mongol-t r k  sszehasonl!t" nyelvtan",
>Buenos Aires: Magyar O"skutat s Kiad sa, 1974. - Sumerian-Finnish-Mongolian-
>Turkish Comparative Grammar)
>
>Sumerian:       bur 411,104 (to drill, to riddle with holes)
>Finnish:        porata (it drills)
Estonian:       puur (drill)
>Hungarian:      f#r (")
>Turkish:        burgu (drill - noun)
>Kalmuk Mongol:  burgu (")
>
>Sumerian:       bar 74, 68/302 (family, village)
>Finnish:        perhe (family)
Estonian:       pere (family)
>Hungarian:      v ros (city)
>Old Turkish:    balIq (")
>Mongol:         balgasun (city, village)
>
>Sumerian:       bur3 411,32 (livestock, four-legged animal, cow)
>Finnish:        poro (reindeer)
Estonian:       puder (elk but also reindeer = puhjapuder)
>Hungarian:      borj# (livestock)
>Osmanli Turk:   buzagI (two year-old livestock)
>Buriat Mongol:  bur  (livestock)
>
>Sumerian:       bad 69,100 (to fall apart, to be fallen)
>Finnish:        potea (it breaks apart)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      sz tpattan (" - "sz t-" is a prefix meaning "apart". "pattan"
>                            is the root meaning "break".)
>Turkish:        patlamak (to burst)
>Mongol:         butal- (it falls apart)
>
>Sumerian:       bad 152 8,4 (wall, stuffing)
>Finnish:        pato (stuffing)
Estonian:       pais (stuffing)
>Hungarian:      fal (wall)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    bit  (it closes away - pertaining to arrows?)
>Mongol:         biteg  (closed away)
>
>Sumerian:       gab 167,55/57a (to grasp, to get, to catch)
>Finnish:        kaapata (it gets, it catches)
Estonian:       kaaperdada (catch, hijack)
>Hungarian:      kap (")
>Turkish:        kap (pot - recepticle, something that catches)
>Mongol:         qabla- (it catches, it finds)
>
>Sumerian:       ab(-ba) 128,13a (father)
>Finnish:        appi (father-in-law)
Estonian:       app (father-in-law in certain dialect)
>Hungarian:      apa (father)
>Turkish:        aba (")
>Mongol:         aav (")
>
>Sumerian:       s^ub 68,9 (to flatten)
>Finnish:        lappea (page)
Estonian:       lapata (to page)
>Hungarian:      lap (")
>Sakha Turk:     s bird x (page, leaf)
>Kalmuk Mongol:  napts^i (leaf)
>
>Sumerian:       gab 167,56 (copy, picture, duplicate)
>Finnish:        kuva (picture)
Estonian:       kuva (picture in dialect)
>Hungarian:      k p (")
>Turkish:        k p (")
>Mongol:         keb (example, as in...)
>
>Sumerian:       gib-i/=gig/446,3/4 (be sick, pain, illness)
>Finnish:        kipe  (sick)
Estonian:       kibe (bitter but also hard)
>Hungarian:      meggebed (it is sick - "meg-" is a prefix)
>Turkish:        gebermek (to pass away)
>Manchu:         gebsere- (be sour)
>
>Sumerian:       gir11 152,19 (to stretch)
>Finnish:        kire  (tight)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      g rcs (spasm)
>Turkish:        germek (to tighten)
>Mongol:         kere- (it binds up, it tightens)
>
>Sumerian:       sig 592, 10ff (tight, narrow)
>Finnish:        tiukka (tight)
Estonian:       tihe (tight)
>Hungarian:      szu"k (")
>Turkish:        sIkI (")
>Mongol:         siqam (tight, pressed together)
>
>Sumerian:       gig 456,43 (hatred, to hate)
>Finnish:        kiukka (hatred)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      gyu"l l (it hates)
>Old Turkish:    k k (")
>Mongol:         j^igs^i (")
>
>Sumerian:       s^ag5 356,5/7 (be healthy, good, goodness, nice)
>Finnish:        hyv  (good)
Estonian:       h|va (good)
>Hungarian:      j" (")
>Turkish:        sag^ (healthy)
>Bashqort Turk:  hau (")
>Mongol:         sajin (good)
>
>Sumerian:       sig7 351,6 (to live, to sit)
>Finnish:        sija (dwelling, place)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      sz k (chair)
>Turkish:        sakIn (inhabitant)
>Mongol:         sagu- (it sits, it dwells)
>
>Sumerian:       gis^ 296,10 (man, master, sir, gentleman)
>Finnish:        is nta (sir, landlord)
Estonian:       isand (sir, master)
>Hungarian:      gazda (landowner?)
>Old Turkish:    iy  (gentleman)
>Mongol:         ej^en (sir, ruler)
>
>Sumerian:       gal2 80,3 (to be)
>Finnish:        olla (to be)
Estonian:       olla (to be)
>Hungarian:      val- (it is - old form)
>Turkish:        ol- (it is, it will be, it happens)
>Mongol:         bol- (it is, it will be, possible)
>
>Sumerian:       gur4 483,23 (to run, to flee)
>Finnish:        kiire (rushing, hurrying)
Estonian:       kiire (fast, hurry)
>Hungarian:      gyors (quick)
>Turkish:        kuriye (fast movement?)
>Mongol:         qurdun (fast)
>
>Sumerian:       zag 332,43 (flatland, field)
>Finnish:        s vel (flat)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      s!ks g (plateau)
>Turkish:        sahra- (steppe, land, plateau)
>
>Sumerian:       dug3 396,10/11 (good, healthy, optimal)
>Finnish:        t ysi (full, perfect)
Estonian:       tdis (full)
>Hungarian:      t k letes (complete, perfect)
>Turkish:        tekmil (completion)
>Mongol:         t g s (")
>
>Sumerian:       dah 169,3/10 (one follows, by someone)
>Finnish:        l het  (it follows, it comes together)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      t rs (member, partner)
>Sakha Turk:     dogor (")
>Mongol:         daga- (it follows, it goes together)
>
>Sumerian:       kud 12,19 (city, hamlet)
>Finnish:        kotia (hut)
Estonian:       kodu (home)
>Hungarian:      kunyh" (")
>Old Turkish:    qadas^ (relative, relation, troop, brother)
>Mongol:         quda (relation, troop)
>
>Sumerian:       kad4 (to bind)
>Finnish:        kytke  (it binds up, it weaves)
Estonian:       k|tkestama (to bind, facinate)
>Hungarian:      k tni (to bind)
>Turkish:        kat- (weave)
>Mongol:         qadamar (strenghtened)
>
>Sumerian:       bad3 152^8,7 (deathly ill, sickly)
>Finnish:        potea (become sick)
Estonian:       pudema (to be sick)
>Hungarian:      beteg (sick)
>Old Turkish:    bed- (it weakens)
>Mongol:         betege ("dagantot okoz" betegs g" - My Hungarian isn't very
>                         good but I know it has something to do with illness)
>
>Sumerian:       pa 295,11 (summit, peak)
>Finnish:        p   (head)
Estonian:       pea (head), pdd (head in southern dialects)
>Hungarian:      fej (")
>Turkish:        bas, (")
>Ancient Mongol: pekin (")
>
>Sumerian:       bu 371,25 (to blow)
>Finnish:        puhaltaa (it blows)
Estonian:       puhuda (to blow)
>Hungarian:      f#j (")
>Turkish:        p fle- (")
>Ancient Mongol: p lig  (")
>
>Sumerian:       zub 60^x,4 (to flow, rain)
>Finnish:        tippua (it drops)
Estonian:       tilkuma (to drop)
>Hungarian:      csepeg (")
>Uigur Turk:     c^ip-c^ip (onomatopaeia of dripping water - "drip-drip")
>Mongol:         sibeni- (it drops, it flows)
>
>Sumerian:       ki 461,21 (who)
>Finnish:        kuka (")
Estonian:       kes (who)
>Hungarian:      ki (")
>Turkish:        ki (")
>Mongol:         khen (")
>
>Sumerian:       kur2 60,34 (circle)
>Finnish:        keri (")
Estonian:       keha (body, circle in dialect)
>Hungarian:      k r (")
>Turkish:        k resel (spherical)
>Mongol:         k rd  (circle)
>
>Sumerian:       kas^ 211a,2 (urine)
>Finnish:        kusi (")
Estonian:       kusi (urine)
>Hungarian:      h#gy (")
>Turkish:        huysuzluk (bile)
>Old Turkish:    qas^an- (be urinating)
>
>Sumerian:       kud 536,4 (to throw, to place, to allow)
>Finnish:        kadota (it loses)
Estonian:       kaduma (")
>Hungarian:      hagy (it allows)
>Turkish:        koy- (")
>Mongol:         qoj^im (afterwards, later)
>
>Sumerian:       s^ita 233,15/442,2 (to bind)
>Finnish:        sitoa (it binds, it weaves, it strenghtens)
Estonian:       siduma (to bind)
>Hungarian:      csatol (it weaves - a net)
>Turkish:        ciltlemek (to bind)
>Kalmuk Mongol:  s^itm (fencing)
>
>Sumerian:       has^ 12,78 (be bending)
>Finnish:        kallistaa (it bends)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      hajlik (")
>Turkish:        kayma  (slant-eyed)
>Mongol:         qaj^iji- (it bends, it curves)
>
>Sumerian:       hir 401,9 (picture)
>Finnish:        kirja (book)
Estonian:       kiri (writing, letter)
>Hungarian:      h!r (news - ?)
>Turkish:        kertik (notch, gash, score)
>Mongol:         kerc^i (")
>
>Sumerian:       has^ 12,70/73 (to cut, to split)
>Finnish:        halkoa (it cuts)
Estonian:       halg (stick of firewood)
>Hungarian:      has!t (")
>Turkish:        kesmek (to cut)
>Mongol:         qasu- (it shortens sg, it cuts sg)
>
>Sumerian:       uh 398,6/17 (to spew, to vomit)
>Finnish:        oksentaa (it vomits)
Estonian:       oksendama (to vomit)
>Hungarian:      ok dik (")
>Turkish:         ks rmek (to cough)
>Mongol:         oki- (it vomits)
>
>Sumerian:       sil(a) 12,117 (to split, to cut up)
>Finnish:        s le (splinter)
Estonian:       ?
>Hungarian:      szelet (slice - noun)
>Teleut Turk:    s^IlI (it cuts)
>Mongol:         silu- (")
>
>Sumerian:       sig 592,10/19 (small, little)
>Finnish:        hiukan (a little bit)
>Hungarian:      csek ly (insignificant)
>Turkish:        - ak (diminutive suffix)
>Mongol:         c^ gen (a few, not much)
>
>Sumerian:       sag2 295,100a (to strike, to hit)
>Finnish:        haava (wound, injury)
Estonian:       haav (wound)
>Hungarian:      seb (")
>Turkish:         arpmak (to strike)
>Mongol:         s^abda- (it wounds sg/sb,)
>
>Sumerian:       hus 565,58 (to drive)
>Finnish:        kuski (driver)
>Hungarian:      kocsis (driver)
>                kocsi (coach - The word "coach" is derived from the Hungarian
>                       but the Hungarian word comes from the Sumerian "hus")
>Osmanli Turk:   qos^u (wagon, coach)
>Kalmuk Mongol:  xos^ (")
>Old Japanese:   kachi (a type of vehicle for nobles)
>
>Sumerian:       s^ag 384,118/9 (to sigh, a sigh)
>Lappish:        s^uokket (a sigh)
>Hungarian:      s"hajtozik (it sighs)
>Teleut Turk:    s zI- (")
>Mongol:         sugsi- (")
>
>Sumerian:       s^ag 384,2 (word)
>Finnish:        s vel (sound, song)
>Hungarian:      sz" (word)
>Turkish:        s v (")
>Mongol:         jabsi- (it talks a lot)
>
>Sumerian:       s^e 367,58d (to eat)
>Finnish:        sy d  (it eats)
Estonian:       svvma (to eat)
>Hungarian:      eszik (")
>Turkish:        yemek (to eat)
>Mongol:         j^eme (wolf food)
>
>Sumerian:       s^ug 367,11/2 (big, be big, much)
>Finnish:        luku (lots)
>Hungarian:      sok (")
>Turkish:         ok (")
>Mongol:          ugla- (it enlarges sg, it increases sg)
>
>Sumerian:       s^eg8 551,4 (frost, ice, cold)
>Finnish:        j   (ice)
Estonian:       jdd (ice)
>Hungarian:      j g (")
>Turkish:        sog^ut (cold)
>Mongol:         tsang (frost)
>
>Sumerian:       us^ 4 536,26 (mind, intellect)
>Finnish:        huja (mind)
>Hungarian:       sz (")
>Turkish:        us (intelligence)
>Mongol:         ojun (")
>
>Sumerian:       as^ 2 339,8 (to long for, to want)
>Finnish:        isota (want)
>Hungarian:       hes (hungry)
>Turkish:        istemek (to want, to desire)
>
>Sumerian:       gis^ 296,16 (hand)
>Finnish:        k si (")
Estonian:       kdsi (hand)
>Hungarian:      k z (")
>Turkish:        kuuvet (strength, power)
>Mongol:         gesig n (member, branch)
>
>Sumerian:       zal 231,16 (also: sal, s^al) (to see)
>Finnish:        silm  (eye)
Estonian:       silm (eye)
>Hungarian:      szem (")
>Mongol:         silibki- (it looks at sg)
>
>Sumerian:       zal(ag) 393,5 (be lighted, star, to shine)
>Finnish:        ts'ilkett  (it shines, it lights up sg)
>(dialect)
>Hungarian:      csillag (star)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    s^olpan (Morning Star, Venus)
>Mongol:         j^ilgir- (it shines)
>
>Sumerian:       zir 84,108 (suffering, hurt)
>Finnish:        s rke  (be in pain)
>Hungarian:      s!r (grave; be crying)
>Turkish:        sIzI (ache, pain)
>Khalkha Mongol: s^arx (wound)
>
>Sumerian:       izi 172,11/17/13 (fire, oven, ash, to flame up)
>Komi (Finnic):  ezj- (it burns)
>Hungarian:      izzad (it sweats)
>Kyrgyz Turk:    issyk (warm - there is a lake called the Issyk-Kul - "warm
>                       lake" in Kyrgyzstan)
>Mongol:         isu (ash)
>
>Sumerian:       izi 172.159 (sour)
>Finnish:        etikka (")
Estonian:       dddikas (")
>Hungarian:      ecet (")
>Turkish:        eks,i (")
>Mongol:         es - (it becomes sour)
>
>Sumerian:       zig 84,45 (to raise oneself, to get oneself up)
>Finnish:        l hte  (it goes away, it starts off, it escapes)
Estonian:       ldheb ((he) goes)
>Hungarian:      sz kik (it escapes)
>Turkish:         Ikmak (to go out, to move out, to graduate)
>Mongol:         segelj^e (go in a jumping manner)
>
>Sumerian:       ri 86,41,74 (to fly)
>Finnish:        r pytt   (it flies)
>Hungarian:      rep l- (")
>Kyrgyz Turk:    erb ng (unsupportable, cannot stand up)
>Mongol:         erbeji- (it flies)
>
>Sumerian:       sir3 152,3 (also: sur, s^ar) (to sing, song, to compose music)
>Finnish:        sirist   (it chirps)
>Hungarian:      csiripel (")
>Turkish:        s,arkI (song)
>Mongol:         j^irgi (sing a song, chirp)
>
>Sumerian:       er 50,7 (also: ir, ur) (man, manly)
>Finnish:        yrk  (husband)
>Hungarian:      #r (sir, Mr.)
>Turkish:        er (man, male)
>Mongol:         ere (husband)
>
>Sumerian:       bar 74,100 (to frighten oneself, to scare)
>Finnish:        pel t  (it fears)
>Hungarian:      f l (")
>Turkish:        perva (")
>Ancient Mongol: p rk  (")
>
>Sumerian:       ur2 203,7 (underground, ground)
>Finnish:        ala- (lower part)
Estonian:       alam- (")
>Hungarian:      alatt (under)
>Turkish:        alt (bottom)
>Mongol:         ala (genitals)
>
>Sumerian:       ma 342,98b/10 (also: ma-da) (land, earth, homeland)
>Finnish:        maa (land, country)
Estonian:       maa (")
>Hungarian:      megye (county, administrative district)
>Uigur Turk:     budun (folk, people)
>Mongol:         aymag (county, administrative district)
>
>Maybe the name MAGYAR ("Hungarian" in the Hungarian language) came from MA or
>MA-DA...
>
>Sumerian:       ma 233,2 (to go)
>Finnish:        menn  (it goes)
Estonian:       minna (to go)
>Hungarian:      megy (")
>Old Turkish:    man- (")
>
>Sumerian:       ma3 233,3a (I)
>Finnish:        min  (I)
>Hungarian:      -m (verbal suffix for 1st person ex. esz-ik = it eats, esz-
>                em = I eat)
>Turkish:        ben (I)
>Mongol:         minu (mine)
>
>Sumerian:       eme 237,2 (also: ama) (mother)
>Finnish:        em  (mother, woman, madam, she-)
>Hungarian:      anya (mother), emlo" (breast)
>Turkish:        ana (mother) emcik (nipple) emmek (to suck)
>Mongol:         eme (mother)
>
>Sumerian:       gam 362,6 (it bends over)
>Finnish:        kumar- (it bends)
Estonian:       kumer (convex)
>Hungarian:      kamp" (hook)
>Turkish:        kemer (arch, vault)
>Mongol:         qamar (nose - a "bent" facial feature)
>
>Sumerian:       na 97,4 (be named, call)
>Finnish:        nimi (name)
Estonian:       nimi (name)
>Hungarian:      n v (")
>Turkish:        nam (")
>Mongol:         ner (")
>
>Finnish:        omen (apple)
Estonian:       uun (apple)
>Hungarian:      alma (")
>Turkish:        elma (")
>Mongol:         alim (")
>
>Sumerian:       du3 230,19 (known, experienced, knowledge)
>Finnish:        tunte- (it knows, it meets)
>Hungarian:      tud- (it knows), tanul- (it studies)
>Turkish:        tanImak (to know)
>Mongol:         todad- (it enlightens sg, it explains sg)
>
>---------------------------------17164731315494--

:-)
oTT

Interesting article about IFOR troops in Taszar and Hungarian
attitudes toward NATO.
        http://www.nytimes.com

        If you miss it today, let me know.

        Eva Balogh

Because we just talked about Agnes Sesztak's writing in the
*Demokrata," let me quote from Andras Bencsik, the editor-in-chief of the
publication (*Demokrata,* November 21):

        "Magyarorszag a polgarhaboru fele sodrodik. Ezert a bunert a
tortenelmi felelosseg elsosorban az SZDSZ-t terheli. Ok ezt tudjak. De vajon
tudjak-e, hog meg mi kovetkezik?"

        Translation: "Hungary is drifting toward civil war. The historical
responsibility for this sin is the SZDSZ's. They know this. But do they know
what's coming?"

        That kind of demagoguery is the trademark of the *Demokrata.* (What
a misnomer, by the way!). This is called irresponsible journalism.

        Eva Balogh

Could you help me in finding lids of my family.

My father's name is POLONYI AUREL BELA borned october 15 1913 in
TISZAPALKONYA.
His father POLONYI ANTAL
His mother GIBAS ANNA

Also the family of POLONYI MIHALY december 26 1923 in NAGGVAYAS (Romania).

Is there a more concerned newsgroup?

english/french/ungarn  angol/franciaul/m

My adress 

Thannks.

I cannot count the number of times I have flown MALEV -- on Tupelovs
mostly.  I have never had any problems beyond the incredibly small
amount of space provided in the overhead lockers on Tupelov planes.  As
most people seem to get on with HUGE hand baggage these days, it does
cause a problem (the lockers are only about 8 inches high, if that).
Also, MALEV does give you the use of the new terminal.  I have to agree
with previous postings regarding the food.  It is always the same
unimaginative mixture of slices of salami, hard bread rolls, strange
salad and quails eggs or slices of chicken eggs.  The strangest thing of
all, though, is the Hungarian habit of clapping loudly upon landing.
This must relate to earlier times, when landing was a true feat.
However, there seems to be no need for it now.  I have had great flights
in and out of Budapest and no problems on landing.  In fact, the worst
flight I had in Hungary was on Air France!
--
Karen Dunn Skinner

In article > Karen Dunn Skinner,
 writes:
> I have never had any problems beyond the incredibly small
>amount of space provided in the overhead lockers on Tupelov planes.

They have gone.  I only flied once with the Tu-154 and it was a char-
ter flight. On Budapest Zurich Budapest route, always a Boeing-xyz
flies.

> I have to agree
>with previous postings regarding the food.  It is always the same
>unimaginative mixture of slices of salami, hard bread rolls, strange
>salad and quails eggs or slices of chicken eggs.

Yes, and very little. I could eat the double. Somebody criticized the
wines earlier. I had to switch to wines because there are no anymore czech
or hungarian beer, just German pisses. The red wine is drinkable, in spite
of the fact that it comes from Kiskoros or Kecskemet which is not a
quality-wine  region. Au contraire.

>The strangest thing of
>all, though, is the Hungarian habit of clapping loudly upon landing.
>This must relate to earlier times, when landing was a true feat.

It must be a stupid Swiss or German habit 'cose they always do
it. In our case it is somewhat understandable, because I go with
the evening flight which has a direct connection to Middle East so
we are full of ortodox Jews (they used to pray just before the flight
on the airport, I always keep my finger crossed to them not to punch
their head to the wall), and terrorism comes into one's mind and happy
that lived through the flight without highjacking or a bombing. ;-)

Tamas

This discussion of MALEV is very interesting to me as I have recently
returned from two years in Bulgaria and work throughout the region.
I, too, have flown MALEV - as well as LOT, CSA (Czech Airlines), and
BALKAN and have had the decidedly mispleasure of flying TUs, both
154s and 134s.

As far as aircraft, LOT is best - for Westerners, anyway, because
they fly all Boeings and ATRs.  On MALEV I had the chance to fly a
rather new TU154, a decided improvements over the older models,
but....

As far as the TUs flown by BALKAN and CSA, I wouldn't give you the
value of them in scrap metal.  I can understand why Hungarians clap
when the planes land - I always felt like dropping to my kness and
kissing the ground that I made it safe to my destination whenever I
had to fly one of those planes.  My last flight from Sofia to Prague
was probably the worst, not because of the flight itself (fairly
routine and without any turbulence), but because there was a large
crack in the floor of the cabin just under my feet that kept
vibrating terribly and widening little by little.  The flight
attendant didn't see anything unusual about it.

TUs sound terrible taking off, when the pilots rotate their engines
and begin to raise flaps you think an engine is likely to fall off -
it's scary!!  No thanks; you can have them.

Frank Aycock
Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Communication
Appalachian State University
Boone, NC 28608 U.S.A.
Fax: (704) 262-2543
E-Mail: 

At 03:01 PM 12/5/96 GMT, "T.Kocsis" > wrote:

>In article > Karen Dunn Skinner,

<snip>
>>The strangest thing of
>>all, though, is the Hungarian habit of clapping loudly upon landing.
>>This must relate to earlier times, when landing was a true feat.


>It must be a stupid Swiss or German habit 'cose they always do
>it. In our case it is somewhat understandable, because I go with
>the evening flight which has a direct connection to Middle East so
>we are full of ortodox Jews (they used to pray just before the flight
>on the airport, I always keep my finger crossed to them not to punch
>their head to the wall)

I think your last comment is quite unnecessary.

Joe Szalai

> Please, wake up. You would be better off to settle for a decent democratic,
> liberal regime with a decent social net as opposed to belittling Agnes
> Sesztak and her friends as nothing but the same anti-socialist crap!
>
>         Eva Balogh
>

Sorry Eva B., but I think you should note, that a  decent democratic
liberal regime with a decent social net can be defined as utopia if
you are trying to base it on the present capitalist environment.
It is very obvious, that it cannot be provided, all keynesien type
economies now given way to monetarist non-liberal economic policy,
and it is in the process of eliminating any pretence of a decent
social net.

... So my suggestion for a democratic system not based on
market economy (capitalism) is in fact  more practicable than
to stick to a doomed experiment...

Johanne, you asked:

>I have two questions concerning the Berlin Wall. First, I've read often
>about how it was the Hungarian authorities' willingness to permit East
>German tourists to cross their borders to the West which eventually led
>the East German authorities (and Soviet) to agree to tear down the Wall.
>Where exactly in Hungary was this "escape route" to the West?

It was through Hegyeshalom, the main border crossing to Austria. I doubt,
however that this escape route led the East German authorities to destroy
the wall, but surely contributed to it.

>Secondly, about the Berlin Wall, I know it "separated East Berlin from
>West Berlin," but what was to prevent East Germans outside of East
>Berlin, say to the west of West Berlin (but still inside East Germany)
>from getting into West Berlin, and then from there escaping to the West?
..............
>In other words, how was this Berlin Wall such a solution to the problem
>of the mass exodus of East Germans to the West, if all it did was seal
>only one side of the West Berlin border; surely the other three sides
>were porous? Did the Berlin Wall COMPLETELY surround West Berlin?

Yes, as far as I know, the Berlin Wall COMPLETELY surrounded West Berlin,
wherever it was possible. I am not sure whether it was a brick wall everywhere
(because of lakes, rivers, so on), but it was surely a strictly guarded border.

J.Zs

Mark Humphreys wrote:

>Could anyone please tell me where the Urals are near the Slovak boarder? Eithe
r
>my geography's off or Slovakia extends a lot farther East than I suspected.
>(See below:)
>
>
>>      Mr. Lippai -
>>
>>      My name is Margaret Nash (maiden name - Melega).  I am first
>>      generation American and my parents were both Hungarian.  My father was
>>      from Budapest and my mother was from a small town called Homosa (I
>>      hope I spelled that right) in the Urals near the Czechoslovakian
>>      boarder.

It is only the question of what length-scale you use. If you use atomic scale
(Angstrom, nm), the Urals are incredible far from Slovakia. If you are using
MKS or CGS units, they are not that far from each other and I suspect that
our poor Margaret simple confused the Carpatians with the Urals. However if
you use astronomical units (parsec) the Urals and the Carpatians are simple
indistinguishable from each other.

J.Zs

Dear Johanna:


On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Johanna Granville wrote:

> To Whom it May Concern:
>
> I have two questions concerning the Berlin Wall. First, I've read often
> about how it was the Hungarian authorities' willingness to permit East
> German tourists to cross their borders to the West which eventually led
> the East German authorities (and Soviet) to agree to tear down the Wall.
> Where exactly in Hungary was this "escape route" to the West?

That is correct, it was the Hungarian authorities who started the
avalanche by permitting East German citizens to leave Hungary to or
through Austria to Germany, without E. German permission.

> Secondly, about the Berlin Wall, I know it "separated East Berlin from
> West Berlin," but what was to prevent East Germans outside of East
> Berlin, say to the west of West Berlin (but still inside East Germany)
> from getting into West Berlin, and then from there escaping to the West?

Although only in Berlin was the wall really a brick-and-mortar wall, the
entirte border of the "Iron Curtain" - from E. Germany down to
Czechoslovakia and Hungary - was fortified: barbed wire, electronic
alarms, dog patrols, mine fields, observation towers, sharpshooters. It
was several hundred kilometers long.
The fortified border was there before the wall within Berlin went up.
Berlin had a special four-power status, and until the wall was built, it
was precisely within Berlin that denizens of the East could easily go to
the West - all they needed to do was walk across, or even ride the S-Bahn
over to the western sectors. It was to stop this exodus that the E.
sector (or Soviet zone, or Berlin, the E. German capital per se) was
isolated from the other sectors of Berlin, which constituted, in effect,
an island some 110 kms. within the East German boundaries.

> Other, related questions: were the railway and highway routes from West
> Germany (Hamburg, Hanover, Frankfort) neutral, international routes, or
> were they entirely East german-owned and controlled?

They were guaranteed access routes, but controlled by E. German
authorities. Transit visas were required; trains were closed; transit per
car was timed, and you were not allowed to leave the Autobahn.

 > Could West
Germans travel
freely to East Berlin, or was movement in > either direction forbidden?

Under some special circumstances, West Germans could travel to the East,
but needed visas (e.g. for funerals, certain family emergencies, but even
for certain business purposes); in the other direction, travel was
practically non-existent, except, again, under very special conditions
for very few people, mostly retired, and traveling without spouses. To an
extent, that was eased in the Gorbachov years.

> In other words, how was this Berlin Wall such a solution to the problem
> of the mass exodus of East Germans to the West, if all it did was seal
> only one side of the West Berlin border; surely the other three sides
> were porous? Did the Berlin Wall COMPLETELY surround West Berlin?

To repeat: it was the other way around: Berlin was the only route out,
until the hole was plugged with the wall.

Louis Elteto

> Please forgive me for these inane questions. i hope they are not TOO
> irrelevant for this discussion group!
>
> Koszonom szepen.
>
> Johanna Granville
>

On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Joe Szalai wrote:
> At 03:01 PM 12/5/96 GMT, "T.Kocsis" > wrote:
<SNIP>
> >It must be a stupid Swiss or German habit 'cose they always do
> >it. In our case it is somewhat understandable, because I go with
> >the evening flight which has a direct connection to Middle East so
> >we are full of ortodox Jews (they used to pray just before the flight
> >on the airport, I always keep my finger crossed to them not to punch
> >their head to the wall)
> I think your last comment is quite unnecessary.
> Joe Szalai

For once I agree with Joe. At airports not only the Orthodox Jews, but
also Muslims pray. I sat next to an orthodox Jew, just before takeoff in
the early AM and he did his prayers (with many people looking on).In the
evening at JFK they even have (as in most large airports) a set of prayer
carpets pointing east. One can see many devout Muslims also pray.

Perhaps
 Tamas is one of those parochial un-travelled people who thinks that
other cultures/religions need to be snikered at???
Peter Soltesz

On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D. wrote:
<SNIP>
> TUs sound terrible taking off, when the pilots rotate their engines
> and begin to raise flaps you think an engine is likely to fall off -
> it's scary!!  No thanks; you can have them.
>
> Frank Aycock
> Frank A. Aycock, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Communication
> Appalachian State University
> Boone, NC 28608 U.S.A.
> Fax: (704) 262-2543
> E-Mail: 
>
<<<<<<<<<
Dear Frank....I certainly hope that the pilots rotate the plane and NOT
the engine! The term rotate means to rotate the plane along its mid axis
perpendicular to the travel heading so that it can take off. Let me
assure you that the engines DO NOT Rotate! If they do you were real lucky.
Peter Soltesz

Hi, Jesse!

At 08:18 04/12/96 GMT, you wrote:
>Johanne L. Tournier ) wrote:
>: Hungarian name (I think it may be Dutch and that he originally came from
>: South Africa, but I am not positive), would have selected such a small
>: country to be the homeland of his hero. Does anybody have any ideas?
>
>Ondaatje is a Dutch name, but he is native to Sri Lanka.  Fabulous novel,
>by the way.
>
>Best,
>Jesse

Thanks for the info. I intend to read the book first, before seeing the movie!

BTW, people might be interested to know that I heard part of a commentary on
CBC radio today in which a gentleman whose name I did not catch was
criticizing the fact that the Almasy of the movie was portrayed as a
romantic dreamer who is so in love that, in order to save his lady fair, he
collaborates with the Nazis. This gentleman says that the *real* Almasy
willingly collaborated with the Nazis and that books and movies should be
truer to the historical truth of these things. I thought that was
interesting, because it indicates that this Almasy was based on a historical
character. Maybe the same one who, according to someone on SCM, discovered
the Arabs of Hungarian descent living in Egypt in the 1920's. It would be
interesting to find out more about this historical Almasy (would it have
been spelled Almassy?). Does anyone know of any books which might tell about
his life and adventures?

(I will cross-post this to SCM, to see if there are any comments from there).

Tisztelettel,

Johanne/Janka
Johanne L. Tournier
e-mail - 

The debate about the American religion continues.

Sam answered to me like this:
> >Does the President of the United States have thorn in his
> >flesh? He may have some! And we all know this.
> He knows that his poll ratings are good enough that he can now resume
> dating.
Your sarcasm toward the President is questionable. Jay Leno
may have this kind of jokes. (But he earns his money this way.
What are you willing to earn here with your stupid jokes?)

> >Humility. The President needed this thing so badly. And
> >he was rewarded. He got the gift of humility so that he
> >could see through the dark glass.
> It's a wonder you don't choke on your own hypocrisy. If Clinton regularly
> looks through dark glasses, he should forthwith purchase a guide dog and a
> white cane and strike up a friendship with Ray Charles.
Why did ole poor Ray Charles deserve this shot? Do you have
any bad feelings towards blind men or other handicaps? :-(

You call me a hypocrite.Why? Because I show you up the self-
made Christian image of your President? Or because I point
out the very Christian nature of your society and your big
country?

> >Are you going to accept that the people of God,
> >as the President called them, are not extreme, are not
> >stupid uneducated folks, but actually are enlightened by
> >God's eternal wisdom? Look, the President is one of them.
> >He tries to get closer to this wisdom. Why would not you?
> The self-designated "people of God" like you are a plague on this nation
> and an embarrassment to organized religion.
I never called myself 'people of God'. Actually, I have my
own disagreement with self-anointed fundamentalists. But I
can not imagine why would one call the good Christian folks
"a plague on the nation"? A plague is what kills you. Your
religion, on the contrary, may give you life, which is worth
living. For the majority of American folks, sorry for the
repetition, this religion is the Christianity.

(to be continued)
                                                    Sz. Zoli

HAPPY HANNUKAH!

At 03:01 PM 12/5/96 GMT, Tamas Kocsis wrote:

>It must be a stupid Swiss or German habit [clapping on landing] 'cose they
always do
>it. In our case it is somewhat understandable, because I go with
>the evening flight which has a direct connection to Middle East so
>we are full of ortodox Jews (they used to pray just before the flight
>on the airport, I always keep my finger crossed to them not to punch
>their head to the wall), and terrorism comes into one's mind and happy
>that lived through the flight without highjacking or a bombing. ;-)

        That whole thing reminds me of my first "real" flight to Europe. The
reason I am saying "real" flight because the first one was prior to jets. Or
rather, I think there were jets already but we, Hungarian refugees in 1957,
were not transported exactly in luxury to Canada. The Canadian government
hired a practically unknown airline (might have been called Maritime) to
transport us from Vienna to Montreal. The plane had to land twice before
reaching its destination. The first landing was Glasgow, where we had
dinner, a rather strange and not very palatable dinner; the second was
breakfast in Island (American base); and the third Montreal itself. It was
freezing cold in the plane--I mean freezing cold, all through (it was late
February).

        In any case, nine years later in 1965, after Comrade Kadar announced
in 1963 amnesty for us (I waited for two years to be sure), I was on my way
to Europe on a "real" plane, KLM, going to Amsterdam. On my right I had a
nun from some South American country who didn't speak any other language but
Spanish. I didn't speak Spanish. So we smiled a lot. She refused food and
prayed all night long with rosary in hand! On my left there was a fellow
from Egypt who, for some strange reason, was flying out of Montreal,
although he just came from Texas, where they performed one of the first
open-heart surgeries on him. He sighed a lot and he looked terribly mornful.
So, there was I, sandwiched between the praying nun and the sighing guy with
the heart problem and I must admit I found the whole scene rather funny! My
only worry was, of course, my entry behind the "iron curtain." I was a
fairly early visitor and not without reason full of fear.

        By the way, maybe thanks to the nun, we arrived without the
slightest trouble in Amsterdam, where I admired that gorgeous road, full of
flowers between the airport and the capital city. And after an absolutely
sleepless night in Vienna, I even managed to land in Budapest without
putting me into jail.

        Eva Balogh

At 03:17 PM 12/5/96 +0000, Frank Aycock wrote:

>I can understand why Hungarians clap
>when the planes land - I always felt like dropping to my knees and
>kissing the ground that I made it safe to my destination whenever I
>had to fly one of those planes.

        Karen Dunn Skinner also wrote:

>The strangest thing of
>all, though, is the Hungarian habit of clapping loudly upon landing.
>This must relate to earlier times, when landing was a true feat.

        Now it is becoming all clear! For the life of me I couldn't figure
out why people were clapping at the time of landing in New York on the
direct Malev flight. I said to myself something like: what a jolly lot!
Although during the flight I was talking to a very overweight
Hungarian-American woman from the Midwest who wasn't that jolly at all and
who, like myself, didn't clap. That was the first time that I witnessed that
strange "Hungarian habit," which I didn't realize was a "habit," or
"Hungarian" because on the way to Budapest there was silence when we
landed--also on Malev. But there were very few passangers and practically
none were "real" Hungarians. They were mostly Americans and a few
Hungarian-Americans who behaved like any other American and to whom
obviously that "strange Hungarian" habit meant nothing.

>My last flight from Sofia to Prague
>was probably the worst, not because of the flight itself (fairly
>routine and without any turbulence), but because there was a large
>crack in the floor of the cabin just under my feet that kept
>vibrating terribly and widening little by little.  The flight
>attendant didn't see anything unusual about it.

        Oh, my God! Frank, you have good nerves!

        Eva Balogh

On Thu, 5 Dec 1996, Eva S. Balogh wrote:
<SNIP>
>         That whole thing reminds me of my first "real" flight to Europe. The
> reason I am saying "real" flight because the first one was prior to jets. Or
> rather, I think there were jets already but we, Hungarian refugees in 1957,
> were not transported exactly in luxury to Canada. The Canadian government
> hired a practically unknown airline (might have been called Maritime) to
> transport us from Vienna to Montreal. The plane had to land twice before
> reaching its destination. The first landing was Glasgow, where we had
> dinner, a rather strange and not very palatable dinner; the second was
> breakfast in Island (American base); and the third Montreal itself. It was
> freezing cold in the plane--I mean freezing cold, all through (it was late
> February).
>
Eva I guess you might have been on one of those Douglas DC-6B's with 4
propeller engines on the wing and 3 verticals in the back. It had a
rather limited range (by today's standard). I flew one of those from
Munich to Ireland to Gander/Newfoundland to New York. It was the only way
they can hop across the big pond! I think it took a total of 18 hours!
Times have changed! Eh?
Peter

Peter, please don't send such long texts to the list, it is available for
everyone on the net. Just consider what a terrible banmdwith you use (I
would say waste): your long letter is distributed to hundreds of e-mail
addresses, making traffic jams:( Generally, make your notes as short as
possible, if something is on the net and anyone who is interested can read
it, don't put in in your letter, please.

And a personal remark: I acces the net via phone-line, so downloding
long-long messages costs me more forints:(((

 Thank you!

Lajos

(BTW: if somebody has *only* e-mail access, there is still possible to get
http:... documnets from agora services, eg. sending a message to
 with empty Subjet and in the body of the letter:
send http://www.domain.name/path/wwwpage.htm )

And the same message to bosnjak@.... who regularly sends long digests to the
list with no comments at all:(