||Teach in Eastern Europe and NIS (mind)
|| 65 sor
||Re: A bit more about Dr. Endrey (mind)
|| 21 sor
||To Peter, Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind)
|| 99 sor
||Re: A bit more about Dr. Endrey (mind)
|| 20 sor
||Dr. Endrey's politics (mind)
|| 28 sor
||The Future of Central Europe (mind)
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||HUNGARY Q to Kaslik (mind)
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||Re: *** HUNGARY *** #459 (mind)
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||Confederation questioned (mind)
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||Re: Dr. Endrey's politics (mind)
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||Why did it happen that way? (mind)
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||millcentenial articles (mind)
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||Re: The spelling of Bela Liptak's name (mind)
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||Re: *** HUNGARY *** #459 (mind)
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||Magyar Nyelvu Folyoiratok USA-ban? (mind)
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||Our Blind Spot Vojvodina-Don't Help Us Dr. Fencsik (mind)
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||Re: The Future of Central Europe (mind)
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|+ - ||Teach in Eastern Europe and NIS (mind)
Civic Education Project is once again looking for individuals who are
interested in spending a year teaching at institutions of higher
learning in Central and Eastern Europe and the NIS. Applications for
the 1996-97 are now available and can be requested at the below
addresses. However, in order to speed up the application process and
save valuable resources that can be better spent in the region,
please consider obtaining the application online. The easiest way to
do this is to view that CEP brochure at our WWW site
(http://cep.nonprofit.net/). The brochure can be found at
http://cep.nonprofit.net/brochure.html and that page has a pointer to
the application form itself which is available in digital form via
If you are unfamiliar or uncomfortable with using the online version
of the application, you can also request a paper copy by filling out
the form at http://cep.nonprofit.net/requestform.html. Using that
form to request a paper copy will significantly speed up the
information request process.
A longer description of CEP can be obtained automatically by sending
email to . To find out how you can obtain
an application (including several online options) send email to
. In both cases you will receive an
automated reply. To speak to a human ;-], contact me directly at
Civic Education Project is an international not-for-profit
organization devoted to the strengthening of democracy in Eastern
Europe and the former Soviet Union through the revitalization of the
social sciences in universities and institutes of higher education.
Through its visiting professor program, CEP sends Western-trained
scholars to teach and advise at universities in Albania, Belarus,
Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Latvia,
Lithuania, Macedonia, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovakia and Ukraine.
Teaching assignments are initially for one year, during which
lecturers teach university-level courses in economics, history, law,
political science, public administration, and sociology, and also
work on outreach and research. Lectures are conducted in English, and
transportation, housing, insurance, teaching materials and a living
stipend are provided to program participants. Faculty and advanced
graduate students are encouraged to apply. Write for a
brochure/application packet. Applications are currently being
accepted for the 1996-97 program year. An Equal Opportunity
For more information on the Civic Education Project and its
activities, please contact:
Civic Education Project
P.O. Box 205445 Yale Station
New Haven, CT 06520
Tel: (203) 781-0263
Fax: (203) 781-0265
Civic Education Project
P.O. Box 5445 Yale Station http://cep.nonprofit.net/
New Haven, CT 06520 ftp://cep.nonprofit.net/pub/
Tel: (203) 781-0263 Automated info:
Fax: (203) 781-0265 Application:
|+ - ||Re: A bit more about Dr. Endrey (mind)
Eva wrote about Dr. Endrey's law suit:
>I should correct some misinformation concerning this case. Originally we
>were told that Dr. Endrey is planning to sue the World Bank or the IMF at the
>American Supreme Court. Later the story changed: Dr. Endrey already sued but
>at an appropriate American district court. As it turns out this is not so, at
>least according to the October 3, 1995 issue of *168 ora.* According Laszlo
>Bartus, a journalist, Dr. Endrey sued Michael Camdessus (head of the IMF) at
>the city court of Hodmezovasarhely (ho1dmezo3va1sa1rhelyi va1rosi bi1ro1sa1g)
>for 100 thousand forints ($1.00=133 Fts; thus $751.80) for damages.
Hmmm, this does not sound right to me. It's more likely -- to me at
least -- that the law suit Eva refers to is a separate one, perhaps
suing Camdessus for some defamatory remarks he may have made of dr.
Endrey. Since Monus filed a bunch of such suits in the same court,
perhaps dr. Endrey decided to follow suit -- so to speak. The amount of
damages requested would correspond to what one would expect in such a
law suit. I think Eva's former good instinct about the reliability of
*168 ora* may have failed her this time.
|+ - ||To Peter, Re: Our Blind Spot For Vojvodina (mind)
On 12 Oct 1995 Peter@.MISSING-HOST-NAME. wrote:
> 1. The Great Assembly (Velika narodna skupstina) of the Serbs,
> Bunjevaci and other Slav population of Banat, Bacska, and
> Baranya, held in Novi Sad on October 25, 1918,
> has made its decision based of the representation by the minority
> Slav population of Vojvodina. (At that time Slav population of
> Vojvodian amounted to 38.119% of the total
> population of Vojvodina.
> The majority-61.879% of the non-Slav population of Vojvodina,
> the Hungarians, Germans, Rumanians and others were denied the
> opportunity to participate in the decision about the future
> status of Vojvodina. According to the census of 1921 the
> Serbs constituted only 28.5% of the total population of Vojvodina.
This is absolutely true. However, I did not want to go into detail on
that. Yes, a minority decided. But as you know very well, that was the
end of the World War One in which Serbia lost 43% of its grown male
population (1.4 million people dead total, out of 4.3 million), in which
Serbia was burnt down to the grounds, in which
Belgrade was heavilly damaged by the Austro-Hungarian forces (due to
that, Belgrade has lost most of its previous beauty). We are
talking here about an outcome of the war in which, as always, there were
sides that win and sides that lose.
Serbian general (vojvoda) Putnik conquered land dozens of miles north of
Subotica (Szabadka) (I don't know exactly where his troops stopped).
The border line was drawn to be just north of that city. Big powers approved
Serbian annexation of the region as a "reward".
So, don't misunderstand me. I am not approving anything here; it's a
mere fact that one big country invaded another one, then lost, and then big
powers decided what to do with it. Yes, that's unfair, but so was
unprecedented exodus of the Serbs which they can't be blamed for. That's
just the way things worked then, and that should change. But going back
to history is not an answer because everyone then has certain claims.
This horror in the Balkans shows what it leads to, and shows a certain
immaturity of Europeans as well; it's their tragedy and their shame as well.
> For this reason, the decision made at the above "Great Assembly" is an
> Dictate imposed by a minority.
> The right for self determination has not been made accessible
> under equal conditions for the rest of the majority population of Vojvodina.
> 2. Many of the delegates who participated and voted in the "Great Assembly"
> represented areas, which according to the final document of
> joining Vojvodina with Serbia, later did not become part of the Kingdom
of Serbs Croats and Slovenians.
> 3. Prior to the resolve of the "Great Assembly," a decision was
> made by the National Council of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenians on
> November 24, 1918, in Zagreb regarding
> the union of the Kingdom of Serbia and Montenegro. Since October
> 29, 1818, the legitimate authoritative body dealing with the status of Serbs
living on territories of the
> Austro-Hungarian Empire was the above National Council of Serbs, Croats and
> Slovenians, and not the "Great Assembly".
> 4. Regardless of the desires and the decision of the "Great
> Assembly," Banat, Bacska and Baranya, (the territories largely
> equated with today's Vojvodina), by the
> International Peace Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920) Vojvodina
> was allotet to the
> Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, and not to Serbia.
Yes, but that's a matter of interpretation. What Vojvodinian Serbs claim
and take as a mere fact is that they joined Kingdom of Serbia, which a
few days later merged with the rest of SCS and made a Serb-dominated
kingdom latter known as Yugoslavia. But that is, as you say, irrelevant.
> Yet all of the above is in essence irrelevant, because
the rights > of people to exist on the land where they have lived and
> prospered for centuries are not based on the ups and downs of
> history. The greatness of a nation is reflected
> in its ability to coexist with other people as part of
> the human family. Today, the big challenge for Serbs in Serbia
> proper is wheather or not they can demonstrate
> the ability to guarantie the future survival of 350,000 ethnic
> Hungarians in Vojvodina.
You bet. I absolutely agree.
> I hope and trust they can.
I hope, too. It's primarily up to Serbia to get rid of its (somewhat
justified) xenophobia, change the government, and help preserving
Vojvodinian melting pot. Frankly, that is hard (since I am from the
region), but majority of people want that. It's all influenced by the
constant demonizing of the Serbs which awakes Serbian "spite" which then
becomes a very ruthless tool against all non-Serbs who don't agree with
them. But, everything is doable, and I believe that things will settle
for the best of all.
Greetings: > Peter Kaslik > Hungarian Human Rights Monitor, Toronto >
Best regards. Thanks for "fullfilling" this subject on Vojvodina.
Senior in Electrical Engineering
Oregon State University
|+ - ||Re: A bit more about Dr. Endrey (mind)
In > "Eva S. Balogh"
>I am returning to the topic of Dr. Antal Endrey with some reluctance
>feel I should correct some misinformation concerning this case.
Nice research on Dr.Endrey. I can hardly wait for the next
chapters on Horn, Peto (mom and pop), and the rest of the great
Hungarian leaders. In conjunction with written material it would
be a great idea to ask older Hungarians about their opinions
also. Who knows, we may find out that they are true, democratic
Hungarians whom always put Hungary and the Hungarian people
first unlike Dr.Endrey.( Who knows, Horn could have been a
secret freedomfighter in 56.)
Thank you for your article again, it is nice to know what
a criminal Dr.Endrey is.
|+ - ||Dr. Endrey's politics (mind)
In connection with Dr. Endrey's background he wrote in #459:
>for goodness' sake, it's not a crime to be a right winger! Yet you are
>citing it as something at least equivalent to being a Nazi. But I
>suspect in this case Dr. Endrey earned that title for simply being a
>nationalist. How dares he?
Of course not! I simply mentioned all this because Dr. Endrey claimed that he
was a completely disinterested observer without any political ax to grind.
This is certainly not the case in here. He seems to be very active
politically. I have not problems with an intelligent rightwinger (depending
how right is right) but I do have problem with a not-so-intelligent
rightwinger. Somehow, I think Dr. Endrey belongs to the latter category.
As far as Aron Mo1nus's residence is concerned, I have no idea why these
people like Ho1dmezo3va1sa1rhely. You asked:
>Is that a proof of being his friend?
Not necessarily but one has to admit that that their strategies--i.e.,
launching suits--are very similar. Moreover, I can't imagine that two
ringwingers with very similar agenda, living only 200 odd meters away from
each other, don't get together and discuss matter pertaining to politics.
|+ - ||The Future of Central Europe (mind)
My purpose in writing the attached essay is not so much to solicit comments
or to spark a debate, but to show that there is a way out, that the ideals of
Kossuth, Jaszi and Bibo are not dead, that the future does not have to be an
exploited, colonialized, militarized and balkanized Central Europe and to
suggest, that those of us who agree on that, should come together and spread
these ideas. I also wrote this, because I agree with George Orwell, who said:
"He who controls the past, controls the future and he who controls the
present, controls the past." In other words, we can not have a better future
without first understanding and accepting the errors of the past.
THE FUTURE OF CENTRAL EUROPE:
The Lessons Of A 75 Year Old Tragedy
The 4th of June was the 75th anniversary of the Treaty of Trianon, the peace
treaty which in 1920 mutilated and dismembered an ancient European nation:
the kingdom of Hungary. At Trianon Hungary was deprived 63.6% of her
inhabitants and 71.5% of her territory. This essay has three parts. I will
first discuss the history of Hungary through the end of World War One,
culminating in the Treaty. Next I will outline the Treaty, its architects,
goals and consequences. I then will discuss Hungary's guilt and the events
of the last 75 years to show that, just as Nazism was not born in Germany but
in Versailles, so the tragedy of Bosnia and the evolving tragedy of the
Balkans (some of it yet to occur) can all be traced back to Trianon. I
conclude by outlining a concept which would reconstitute the Danubian Basin
and could stabilize the whole of Central Europe.
For a thousand years, Hungary occupied an oval shaped central plane
surrounded by the protective bulwark of the Carpathian mountains. Like the
crust on a loaf of bread, the mountains encased the lowlands in a majestic
arch from which all waterways converge toward the center. This perfect
geographic unity was matched by complete self-sufficiency, until this
harmonious symbiosis of the great central plain and its surrounding mountains
was destroyed in Trianon.
For a millennium, Hungary was the eastern bastion of European
civilization, a balancing and stabilizing power between Slavic and Germanic
nations. Hungary's first king, Saint Stephen, wrote to his son, Saint Emeric,
in 1036: Make the strangers welcome in this land, let them keep their
languages and customs, for weak and fragile is the realm which is based on a
single language or on a single set of customs (unius linguae uniusque moris
regnum imbecille et fragile est.) Stephen's advice was respected and obeyed
during the coming centuries: Hungary gave asylum to the Ruthenians in the
north, the Wallachians (Romanians) and Saxons in the east, the Swabians and
Serbs in the south. Eventually the kingdom contained 14 national minorities,
of which the Magyars were only one, and in order not to hurt the feelings of
any, Latin remained the sole official language of the kingdom until 1844.
Hungary became a constitutional monarchy in 1222; her Golden Bull is
junior by only 5 years to the English Magna Carta. This constitutional
monarchy was almost completely annihilated by the Mongol invasion of 1240-41,
but through that enormous struggle it succeeded in protecting Europe and her
civilization. Toward the end of the XVth century, during the realm of the
renaissance king Matthias Corvinus, Hungary's population reached that of
England, the court in Buda became a cultural centers of Europe, and the
library of Buda was Europe's finest. In 1526 Hungary was once again
annihilated, this time by the Turkish invasion, which cut her population in
half and the kingdom in three. During the 150 years of Ottoman occupation,
the west was taken by Austria, the center by the Ottoman invaders and
Hungarian culture survived only in the east, in Transylvania.
Even today, Transylvania is the land where the purest Hungarian is
spoken, where Hungarian popular art has found its most exalted, most perfect
expression, and where Bila Bartsk collected his Hungarian folk tunes.
Transylvania is also the place where the Hungarian diet at Torda, in 1557,
declared the freedom of religion for the first time anywhere in the world.
Transylvania provided an atmosphere of religious and ethnic toler ance and as
such became the birthplace of the Unitarian and Sabbatarian religions.
After the Turkish occupation, Austria attempted to take over all of
Hungary. This resulted in a series of uprisings. The fight for Hungarian
independence of 1703-1711 was led by Francis II Raksczy whose insurgent
fighters were mostly Slovak and Ruthenian peasants. They proudly declared
themselves to be Hungarians, as distinct from the racial term Magyar. The
next fight for national independence was led by Louis Kossuth in 1848, and
the Ruthenian and Slovak nationalities once more contributed masses of
recruits for the Hungarian revolutionary army, which, while defeated by the
combined forces of Austria and Russia, forced the Hapsburgs to accept in 1867
the formation of an Austro-Hungarian duality. It was Kossuth who later
proposed to convert the Austro-Hungarian empire (of 24 million Slavs, 12
million Germans and 12 million Hungarians at the time) into a Danubian
Confederation. Kossuth was also the second foreigner ever invited to address
the United States Congress in January, 1852.
From Sarajevo to Trianon
At the beginning of this century, Russia sponsored pan-slavic agitation in
the region. Archduke Francis Ferdinand was the main opponent of the creation
of a Greater Serbia. His murder on June 28, 1914 in Sarajevo had been
encouraged by Russia and engineered by Serbia. The only member of the Council
of Ministers of the Dual Monarchy who was opposed to a war of retaliation
against Serbia was the Hungarian Premier, Count Stephen Tisza. When he was
voted down, Hungary occupied Serbia and by 1915 would have considered the war
over, if Russia did not have scores to settle with the Ottoman empire, France
with Germany, Italy with Austria, and so forth. Therefore the war went on.
During the war, the Czech allies of Serbia, Eduard Benes and Thomas
Masaryk, transformed themselves from consultants of the allies into
architects of allied policy for Central Europe. They organized a deceitful
propaganda campaign for the dismemberment of Hungary and in their efforts
succeeded in obtaining the support of two criminally ignorant French
politicians, Georges Climenceau and Raymond Pointcari.
President Wilson refused to cooperate in this conspiracy. He wanted
Europe's new borders to correspond with her ethnographic boundaries and he
wanted the principle of self-determination to prevail, but his views were
disregarded. On January 24, 1919, he protested the illegal Serb and Romanian
occupation of parts of Hungary and on March 31, 1919, he called the proposed
dismemberment of Hungary absurd, but his objections were overruled by the
French. As a result, the United States Congress refused to sign the Treaty of
Trianon, but this product of Neronian insanity, this plan, unjust in
substance and tragic in consequence, was implemented anyway.
The Treaty of Trianon
On the 4th of June, 1920, one of the cruelest treaties of human history was
signed. Never before had a peace, imposed by violence, been more brutal in
its bias, madder in its destructiveness, more forgetful of the lessons of
history and better calculated to create future upheavals. The treaty cut
mercilessly into the flesh of compact Hungarian populations. Hundreds of
towns were separated from their suburbs; villages were split in two;
communities were deprived of their parish churches or cemeteries; townships
were cut off from their railroad stations and their water supplies. A
1000-year-old European country was made into an invalid as its territory was
reduced from 325,000 to
93,000 square kilometers. In the process, 35% of all Hungarians were turned
into foreign ers within the towns built by their fathers, as the borders were
redrawn around them. In this way, the Hungarians became Europe's largest
minority as Hungary's territory was reduced by 71.5%. In comparison, the
leader of the central powers: Germany lost only 9.5% of its territory. The
outrage of this mockery of justice is illustrated by the fact that even
Austria lined up at the carcass and received some parts of the dismembered
From the fragments of Hungary, the unnatural successor states of
Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and greater Romania were created. These strange
entities forced Croats to live with Serbs and Czechs to live with Slovaks,
demonstrating both the arrogance and the ignorance of Trianon's architects.
These artificial entities were not only geographic monstrosities but also
economic absurdities and therefore their self destruction was just a matter
of time. As of this writing two of the three successor states have already
disintegrated. One of the purposes of this writing is to suggest a plan to
construct a healthy entity from the disintegrated pieces and to transform the
third successor state without violence.
Self-Determination Through Plebiscites
The very foundation of the 14 Wilsonian Principles was that people have an
unalien able right to determine their own destiny. Yet at Trianon the
application of self- determination and the use of plebiscites in drawing the
new borders was totally disregarded. When the recommendations of one of the
delegates to the Peace Conference, those of Field Marshall Ian Smith, to hold
plebiscites in Transylvania, Slovakia, Ruthenia, Croatia and Slavonia were
rejected, he was correct in declaring: A plebiscite refused is a plebiscite
taken. By not allowing plebiscites, the dismemberment of the
Austro-Hungarian empire and the redistribution of her 48 million citizens
resulted in the creation of 16 million oppressed ethnic minorities. These
were not emigrants who voluntarily left their old country, but people who
never in their life moved from their home towns and became foreigners, just
because Climenceau and Benes decided to redraw the borders around them.
When the Wends and Slovenes of the Murakvz protested their separation
from Hungary, when the Ruthenians expressed their desire to remain part of
the kingdom which they shared for a thousand years, when the Swabians of the
Banat protested their annexation into Romania and Yugoslavia (Vojvodina), the
answer of Climenceau was always the same: no, no and no. There was only one
exception to the arbitrary drawing of the new borders (mostly by Eduard
Benes), there was only a single case where President Wilson's principle of
self-determination prevailed: It was in the case of the city of Sopron, which
was allowed to hold a plebiscite and voted by a majority of 65% to remain
part of Hungary and not to join Austria.
The Guilt Of Hungary
Hungary was dismembered because she could not defend herself and because her
greedy neighbors decided to help themselves to the unprotected carcass.
Naturally, the architects of Trianon could not admit this and therefore
invented the theory of Hungary's Guilt, claiming that 1) She started the
First World War and 2) She was a historical German ally and as such a
destabilizing force in Europe. Neither were true.
It was the Serb para-governmental organization, Narodna Obrana, which,
encouragement of Russia and with the goal of a Greater Serbia, assassinated
Archduke Francis Ferdinand in 1914 and it was the Premier of Hungary, who
alone in the Austro- Hungarian Council of Ministers, voted against a war of
retaliation with Serbia.
As to the claim of being a natural German ally, history proves just
the opposite. Whenever Hungary was independent, she acted as a keystone of
balance between the Germanic and Slavic peoples and prevented attempts at
both Pan-Germanic and the Pan- Slavic expansions. In the first 500 years of
her existence, starting with the battle of Lechfeld in 955, Hungary fought to
block the spread of German influence and created stability by filling the
power vacuum of the region. When under Germanic (Austrian) occupation between
1688 and 1867, she twice rose against the Germans and eventually gained her
independence from them.
Tacitus: We Hate Whom We Hurt
In any society, the acid test of civilization is the respect for minority
rights. The Great Powers attempted to guarantee these rights by making the
successor states sign minority treaties, which outlined the language,
religious, cultural and property rights of the minorities. For example, the
minority treaty signed with Romania on the 9th of December, 1919 in Paris, a
treaty guaranteed by the United States, Britain, France, Italy and Japan,
stated the following:
Article 8: No restriction shall be imposed on the free use of any
Article 9: Equal rights to establish, manage and control religious
institutions, schools and other educational establishments.
In Article 11: Roumania agrees to accord to the communities of the
Szecklers (Hungarian Szikelys) and Saxons in Transylvania local autonomy in
regard to scholastic and religious matters.
Article 12: Roumania agrees that the stipulations in the foregoing
Articles, constitute obligations of international concern.
Similar treaties were signed with the other successor states, but
none were ever enforced. In fact, the Great Powers looked the other way while
the successor states attempted to solve their minority problems, first
through denationalization, then by ethnic cleansing through deportations,
expulsions, transfers, dispersions and other forms of uprooting. Hungarians
had to choose between their nationality and their property. Because of the
savage oppression, intimidation and coercion, 350,000 Hungarians decided to
leave all their possessions behind and flee to rump Hungary.
The institutions and possessions of Hungarian communities were also
targeted. In Transylvania alone, the Hungarian community lost 1,665 of her
schools, including the world famous Janos Bolyai University, named after
Einstein's predecessor, the inventor of the new (non-Euclidean) geometry.
The Paris Peace Treaty
On February 10, 1947, the Great Powers had another opportunity to enforce the
until- then-disregarded minority treaties. This was expected because on
August 14, 1941, the Atlantic Charter was signed, and it too (like the
earlier Wilsonian principles) emphasized the right to self-determination and
to plebiscites. Yet, not a single plebiscite was allowed. In fact, rump
Hungary was further violated by the transfer of additional land to Slovakia.
This transfer, later, made possible the construction which unilaterally and
illegally transferred the Danube, Hungary's border river, onto Slovak
territory (in 1992) and built a hydroelectric dam, thereby destroying
Europe's oldest wetland region.
At the end of the Second World War, the worst crime of legalistic
hypocrisy occurred: Eduard Benes, with the scandalous connivance of the
Western Allies, invented the concept of collective responsibility and used
it to confiscate the properties of the Hungarian minorities in Slovakia and
later, to deport them in cattle cars. To understand the hypocrisy of this
deed, one must realize that wartime Slovakia under Tiso was a protectorate of
Nazi Germany, while it was the representative of the Hungarian minority in
the Slovak parliament, Janos Esterhazy, who cast the only dissenting vote
against the Jewish laws passed by that body. Yet, after the war, Esterhazy
died in Czechoslovakian jail and the Hungarian minorities he represented were
collectively sentenced as war criminals. Thereby, when the deported Jewish
Hungarians returned from the death camps, they found their properties
confiscated, because of their collective responsibility.
The Last Decades
By the late 1940s, the last protection left to the Catholic Hungarian
minorities were their churches. In 1948, 600 Hungarian Catholic priests and
all six of their bishops were arrested in Transylvania. Rome later agreed to
gerrymander the Catholic sees and to appoint Romanian bishops to lead the
all-Hungarian church, as the Romanians belong to the Eastern Orthodox faith.
The fate of the Hungarian Catholics in the other successor states was
similar. In 1949, in Ruthenia, the bishop of the 500,000 Catholics was
murdered and the parishioners were forcibly merged into the Orthodox Chrurch.
In Slovakia, in April, 1950, the bishop of 320,000 Catholics was arrested and
his parishioners were also forced into the Orthodox Church.
After 1956, when the Hungarian Freedom Fighters of Budapest succeeded
in mortally wounding the Goliath of Communism, the rulers of the successor
states used the uprising as a pretext to speed the forced assimilation of
their Hungarian minorities. It was after the Revolution that the remaining
autonomous Hungarian regions: Transylvania in Romania and Vojvodina in
Yugoslavia were abolished. Today, the more than 3 million Hungarians have no
autonomy at all, although it had been guaranteed by the Great Powers in 1920,
again in 1946 and once more by the European Parliament in 1993, in Article 11
of Decision 1201.
After 1989, there was a short period of hope, when for example the
Hungarian bishop, Laszls T kis, was temporarily heralded as an all-Romanian
national hero, for leading the successful revolution against Ceaucescu, or
when Miklss Duray, the Hungarian leader of Charter 77, was released from jail
in Slovakia. Unfortunately, this did not last. By 1991, the formerly
Communist leaders of the successor states (Milosevits in Yugoslavia, Iliescu
in Romania, Mechiar in Slovakia) once again started to use nationalistic and
anti-Hungarian propaganda to distract public attention from the pressing
economic problems of their nations.
In September, 1995, for the first time ever, Hungarian students who
speak no other language but Hungarian, will not be allowed to be taught in
their mother's tongue by their Hungarian teachers, in their Hungarian
schools. In addition to this cultural genocide taking place in Romania and
Slovakia, Serbia and Croatia are fighting over the posession of Eastern
Slavonia, which has been part of Hungary for 1000 years. Yet, the worst of
all tragedies is occuring in Vojvodina, where the Serb refugies from Kraina
are ehnically cleansing the native Hungarian population, which had nothing
to do with the fighting in Bosnia.
One wonders if there is a limit to the patience of this, the largest
minority in Europe, and what will happen when that limit is reached?
It takes time for historic events to reveal their consequences. It took
nearly 75 years for the creations of Trianon, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia,
to selfdestruct. It took some 75 years until it became clear that it was the
legacy of Trianon which destabilized and balkanized Central Europe. By now
we see that Trianon did not eliminate the causes of the 1914 murder in
Sarajevo and we also realize that no unjust solution can stand the erosion
of time, Trianon did not provide justice.
But what is justice? In this relativistic age, when my terrorist can be
your freedom fighter, when the life of one UN soldier can be more valuable
than that of a thousand Bosnian children, and when the Chechen or the Kurd
nations are less deserving of self- determination than some others, it is
desirable to remind ourselves of what justice is. On the pulpit of the
Notre-Dame Cathedral, Father Gratry has put it this way: Every nation's
homeland is sacred. If you destroy one of them, you mutilate the entire human
Therefore, the main mistake of 1920 was that it attempted to satisfy
the desires of a Benes and a Climenceau, instead of attempting to apply just
principles to solve the nationality problems of Central Europe.
Unfortunately, this approach has not changed during the last 75 years. The
only thing that changed are the names of the architects of injustice. Today,
the goal of international efforts is to satisfy the desires of a Milosevich
and a Yeltsin, instead of establishing some general principles and applying
them to everybody. The principles of a permanent solution, must involve
self-determination through plebiscites, autonomy for ethnic minorities and a
Danubian or Central European Federation as the ultimate goal.
The United Nations should declare that all national minorities anywhere
in the world (exceeding some minimum number, say 100,000) have the right to
hold supervised plebiscites and receive cultural and linguistic autonomy, if
the majority so desires. It should make no difference how these minorities
evolved, how long they lived in the particular area, or what their language
or religion is. Regardless of all that, they all have the right to maintain
their heritage and determine their own cultural destiny. Once cultural
autonomy is guaranteed, the main cause of tensions between Central European
neighbors will also diminish.
When the Hungarians enjoy the same autonomy in Romania as the Romanian
minorities in Hungary, when the Serb, Russian, Turkish, Albanian, German, or
any other minorities of the region, are also treated equally, the tensions
will disappear and the rebuilding can start.
The Danubian Confederation
It is the wrong goal for the Danubian nations to rush into NATO or the
European Community individually. A much better first goal is the
establishment of an economically self-sufficient, politically stable,
militarily neutral and geographically large enough federation, which by
itself is able to fill the power vacuum of the region.
It should by now be obvious, that neither Western Europe, nor the UN
can fill the present power vacuum in Central Europe and therefore they are
not competent to resolve the problems of the region. History teaches us, that
the Balkans became unstable whenever a power vacuum evolved in the Carpathian
Basin. The wise learn from history, instead of repeating it. We should learn
that the tragedy of Trianon will not be corrected and justice and stability
will not be obtained, by maintaining the status quo. What is needed, once the
minority problems are solved through autonomy, is to build a strong Danubian
Federation, one that can be crystallized around the nucleus of Hungary,
Slovakia, Ruthenia, Slovenia and Croatia, a Federation that later could
expand to include Romania, Yugoslavia or even Poland, the Czech Republic and
History does not solve problems accidentally. Those who want a better
future must first have a plan, a concept of that future. For the stability
and prosperity of Central Europe, that plan should start with autonomy for
the minorities and should end with a voluntary federation. It would be
fitting if on the 75th anniversary of the dismemberment of the Hungarian
Kingdom, after the unnecessary and undeserved suffering of three generations
of innocent ethnic minorities, we would start the process of rebuilding, not
a nation state, but the Federation of Central Europe.
Bila Liptak is a former Yale professor, who has published 19 technical books
and has been invited by the Technical University of Budapest to teach there
as a Fulbright Scholar.
|+ - ||HUNGARY Q to Kaslik (mind)
*.: Peter Kaslik : DO NOT quote 325 lines from the provious Issue
Everybody has red it who was/is interested !
(The second same letter was sent - I guess - by mistake. About 700 lines
total for a 50 lines message.)
*.: Peter Kaslik writes yesterday :
>4. Regardless of the desires and the decision of the "Great
>Assembly," Banat, Bacska and Baranya, (the territories largely
>equated with today's Vojvodina), by the
>International Peace Treaty of Trianon (June 4, 1920) Vojvodina
>was allotet to the
>Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians, and not to Serbia.
>Hungarian Human Rights Monitor, Toronto
It would be interesting to know WHY was a decision like this????
The minority(Roman) vote without the majority(Hungarians) happened also
in Transylvania (northen areas). It can be found sometimes in Hungarian
articles todays dealing with history. You may be able to provide that
|+ - ||Re: *** HUNGARY *** #459 (mind)
It is enough that one must re-read over 300 lines in order to get to the
new message that contains fewer than 50 lines. To have the same thing
repeated is more than enough. But to receive a file, over 65.000 bytes,
SEVEN times in a day, that's INEXCUSABLE! Is someone asleep at HIX?
Please, have a heart.
Posters of messages: can you please not include the whole line of
discussion and quote everything that was ever said on the subject? It
should suffice to quote: "Re: HUNGARY # ..." within the body of your
oeuvre if you want to refer to long articles. We should all be able to
get to the source through SENDDOC.
On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with quoting a paragraph or two,
to make your point.
Thank you for your attention.
Martha S. Bihari
|+ - ||Confederation questioned (mind)
The Danubian Confederation
Mr. Liptak's historical evaluation of Central European history leading up to
and since Trianon has evoked powerful sentiments in me as a native
That is unfortunate.
We will not get anywhere with powerful sentiments. If anything, history must
have taught us that.
Nevertheless, the idea of a Danubian Confederation could appeal to all who
are deeply worried about the outcome of current uncertainties although
attempts to create one must come from its putative constituents rather than
Mr. Liptak's recommendation of:
>> a strong Danubian Federation, one that can be crystallized around the
nucleus of Hungary, Slovakia, Ruthenia, Slovenia and Croatia <<
may have some validity at a theoretical level (that is if we could all
disregard history and ethnicity and assume (?!) that Hungary is a willing and
capable guardian of a multi-ethnic assembly), in practice it is an instance
of Hungarian irredentism.
Mr. Liptak may dispute this charge and his essay contains many elements
supporting the thesis that Hungary had always been a trustworthy guardian of
different people with different tongues. He cites King Istvan and alludes to:
>>... the Wends and Slovenes of the Murakvz protested their separation from
Hungary, when the Ruthenians expressed their desire to remain part of the
kingdom which they shared for a thousand years ... <<
Oh, I am sure they did but separation from which Hungary; remaining in which
Kingdom? Let us not forget that those references are to a Hungary and a
Kingdom which had been administrated from Vienna in then living memory and
ruled by foreign kings before that.
Their allegiance was not necessarily to Budapest or to the Magyars.
If a Confederation is indeed a viable alternative, we should try to lay out
an avenue leading towards it which can be travelled by those who should make
part of that Confederation. Mr. Liptak's essay is not that avenue.
If a Confederation is indeed a viable alternative, we should invest our
resources into debating the mechanisms of such an edifice instead of
lamenting the ruins of past efforts. Mr. Liptak has chosen to invest largely
into the past.
If a Confederation is indeed a viable alternative, we as Hungarians must
avoid at all cost the slightest appearance of irredentism or even of the
glorification of Greater Hungary. Mr. Liptak has not done so.
Tihamer von Ghyczy
PS Allow me to add a few disagreeable afterthoughts.
A Confederation with Hungary thrust into the role of senior partner (whether
she wants that role or not) is totally unacceptable to the would-be members
(other than Hungary).
"Tu felix Austria" is the only conceivable candidate as the central hub and
spiritual guarantor. This may be unpalatable to some but inescapable in my
opinion. Without her as a founding and senior member, the construction is a
de facto acceptance of exclusion from the Western world.
Austria would have to be beaten or begged into that role. Apart from being
handsomely compensated for it. Who is going to do that?
I agree with Mr. Liptak that:
>> the future does not have to be an exploited, colonialized, militarized
and balkanized Central Europe << ...
. just as Greek tragedies do not have to end tragically.
At best Hungary must focus on staying out of this vortex. Sofar she has done
that admirably well. She must build and sustain enough strength to avoid an
internal split along the "limes" of the Roman empire into an industrialized
and prosperous Pannonia and a somnolent eastward looking Alfold.
That in itself is a formidable task.
|+ - ||Re: Dr. Endrey's politics (mind)
> I simply mentioned all this because Dr. Endrey claimed that he
>was a completely disinterested observer without any political ax to grind.
>This is certainly not the case in here. He seems to be very active
I'm sorry I missed Endrey's claim of being disinterested politically
which I certainly would have found strange having known of his present
and former political leanings and activities. I still think though that
Endrey's claim may have been in somewhat different context than you
recall. Do you still have the cite on this?
> I have not problems with an intelligent rightwinger (depending
>how right is right) but I do have problem with a not-so-intelligent
>rightwinger. Somehow, I think Dr. Endrey belongs to the latter category.
Well, I think what we have here is primarily a huge generation gap.
In case of Monus, that may be compounded with an identity crisis.
I am saying this without having read his "Nitsche ..." book, based on
only what I heard about it from both pro and con sources. Since he was
in the thick of it at one time, I could just not dismiss his credibility
on what he has to write about it. So as soon as I have a time for it
and get a hold of that book, I intend to read it to see for myself what the
controversy is all about.
> one has to admit that that their strategies--i.e.,
>launching suits--are very similar. Moreover, I can't imagine that two
>ringwingers with very similar agenda, living only 200 odd meters away from
>each other, don't get together and discuss matter pertaining to politics.
I would not bet my life on it, but if my recollection is correct from
reading some of the transcripts from Monus' suits, he was born
in Hodmezovasarhely. I don't know about Endrey, but I can imagine that
coincidentally he was, too. Of course some plush retirement community
is still a possibility. (?) In such a case, 200 odd meters of proximity
would be nothing unusual. But even if there is no retirement community,
like most towns, Hodmezovasarhely may also have an upscale section where
I would expect both of them living. So that would also explain the
short distance. But there must be some people on HIX from that area who
could provide more info on Hodmezovasarhely. Just an idea, Eva ...
With all that said, I am pretty sure that two such prominent guys must at
least be personal aquaintences, even if not political allies.
|+ - ||Why did it happen that way? (mind)
> It would be interesting to know WHY was a decision like this????
> The minority(Roman) vote without the majority(Hungarians) happened also
> in Transylvania (northen areas). It can be found sometimes in Hungarian
> articles todays dealing with history. You may be able to provide that
> story too.
One thing that was common in both of these cases was that the territory
under question was already occupied by the future owners of the real
estate. With such a setup it is easy to have an assembly with the
desired results. This was not lost on the Soviets 25 years later.
|+ - ||millcentenial articles (mind)
Looking for interesting articles related to the 896AD settlement of the
Magyar Federation whether it is history, archeology, anthropology, music,
art, etc. I have started a Webpage on this topic in preparation for next
years event. Also would like any information on celebrations planned in
hungary or throughout the world. Only positive, serious inputs will be
taken. My webpage is at http://server.snni.com/~fredh if you want to get
a glance at what we have so far. All related material or news is welcome.
|+ - ||Re: The spelling of Bela Liptak's name (mind)
>Andra1s didn't misspell Be1la Lipta1k's name. If you had paid just a little
>more attention you might have noticed that those "1"-s were not els. Andra1s
>is a great believer in writing with proper Hungarian spelling...
Thank you for pointing out my stupid mistake. Of course you are right.
I should have known better, not only because Andra1s always uses the
convention for the irreproduceable diacritical marks, but -- as I mentioned
the sort of rudeness I thought I detected is simply not Andra1s's style.
I owe and hereby express my heartfelt public apology to Andra1s Kornai.
With best regards,
|+ - ||Re: *** HUNGARY *** #459 (mind)
On Sun, 15 Oct 1995, S. Bihari wrote:
> Dear folks,
> It is enough that one must re-read over 300 lines in order to get to the
> new message that contains fewer than 50 lines. To have the same thing
> repeated is more than enough. But to receive a file, over 65.000 bytes,
> SEVEN times in a day, that's INEXCUSABLE! Is someone asleep at HIX?
> Please, have a heart.
Dear Martha and readers,
This list (HUNGARY - Hungarian Discussion List) is not a HIX list. HIX
just distributes it in digest form - the same form, I assume, available
from the listserver itself if you set the correct flag. This list's
correct posting address should be and not
. The listserver software at the GWUVM.GWU.EDU address does
not allow the inclusion of too many quoted lines or sending multiple copies
of messages to the posting address ). Your problems
might disappear if you subscribe to this list without adding the extra
HIX link, at least till HIX Jozsi fixes his interface.
|+ - ||Magyar Nyelvu Folyoiratok USA-ban? (mind)
Tegnap a Washington-i (College Park) Magyar Tanchazban egy par szemely
megkert hogy az Interneten erdeklodjem meg a cimet valamely magyar nyelvu
folyoirat kiadojainak, elofizetes erdekeben.
Koszonom barki segitseget vagy utbaigazitasat.
WWW : http://www.glue.umd.edu/~kovacs
personal email :
|+ - ||Our Blind Spot Vojvodina-Don't Help Us Dr. Fencsik (mind)
Where have you been Dr. Fencsik in 1991, when more than 10,000
ethnic Hungarians were driven out at gun point from Baranya by
Krajina Serbs backed by the Yugoslav Army? Where have you been
when the Hungarian churches and settlements, dating back to nearly
a millennium, were burned to the ground and their foundations
blasted by explosives to eradicate every trace of Hungarian
presence in Baranya. The tragedy of Hungarian population of Baranya has not
up to this date, neither in Hungary, nor in the United States.
Eminent scholars like you could have contributed a great deal to
bring this tragedy to the attention of the American public.
Speaking out in time against the genocide in Baranya could have
perhaps prevented the present danger to thesurvival of ethnic
Hungarians in Vojvodina.
What did you do in the wake of the forced and disproportionate
mobilizations of ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina , when more than
40,000 ethnic Hungarians were forced to flee Vojvodina in fear of
being sent to the front lines. Nearly five years have passed and
tens of thousands of mostly young Hungarians still live in refugee
camps, or are scattered through the world separated from their families.
When is the politically right moment to speak out against the
The representatives of the ethnic Hungarians of Vojvodina have
presented their case to the Helsinki Commission and to the
government officials in the United States and Canada, and their
suggestions and political program for thesurvival and the
future of ethnic Hungarians was deemed to be in full accord
with the accepted principles of collective rights and self rule
for ethnic communities in Europe.
Where were you Prof. Fencsik during the visit of Mr. Andras Agoston to
the United States to coach the small group of people who have
initiated and financed his visit. Did you make any inquiries to
follow up and report to the Hungarian Americans on this visit?
The ethnic cleaning against ethnic Hungarians, and other
nationalities in Vojvodina,in its present form started in 1991 and as far as I
know only Prof. Andrew Ludanyi
spoke out in the press for our cause. Prof. Liptak's present
article addresses precisely the issue of urgency of our predicamen,
due to political inaction and neglect by the international
community -- and your further advise to us is to do nothing.
Thanks for nothing.
I do not wish to pervade your theoretical arguments in great
details, but please allow me to clarify some of the main points:
" I submit that, even if there is unanimous agreement on the need
to protect Hungarian minorities, and everyone wants to do the
Right Thing, it is not always clear what the Right Thing is.
Issues of fact, issues of tactics, issues if timing, and issues of
presentation are all open to argument."
If you think that the issue of the right of an ethnic group to
exist is open to argument, you are condoning the immense suffering, the
murders of children, the rapes, the
rendering of hundreds of thousands of people homeless committed
in the name of an ill conceived idea of Greater Serbia.
Your quotation of TGM's essay is completely redundant.
(Am I supposed to know who TGM is in relation to this subject?)
"What specific policy is the Op-Ed article urging the USA. to
adopt in defense of the Vojvodina Hungarians?
Are we asking Holbrooke to throw this issue into the pot
now? Is this realistic? Is this possible? Are the Serbs to be
made to give up something? In return for what?"
The Hungarians of Vojvodina are already in the pot. By the time
the dust settles, it will be evident that the ethnic Hungarians in
Vojvodina will be among the main victims of the current Balkan
conflict. The danger of disappearance of Hungarians in Vojvodina
is irreversible, and you are suggesting that this is not the
right time to ask Mr. Holbrooke to bring up the question of survival of
ethnic Hungarians in
Vojvodina. The Serbs are not to made to "give up" something.
They must be asked to return something.
Asking the Serbs to stop the genocide is not taking anything away
from them. Do you think that the Serbs should be given something
for refraining from genocide?
You surely know that nobody has the right to play God.
To you these considerations might be abstract points of speculative
strategy and timing, but for many of us, Vojvodina is our homeland
where we were born and raised as Hungarians.
The immediate danger faced by the ethnic Hungarians of Vojvodina
is not an esoteric topic lectured upon "ex catedra." The Hungarian
American community has recently demonstrated a high level of
political conciseness in exercising its political will for the
benefit of its brethren in Transylvania. The present initiative by
Prof. Liptak serves the same purpose, and it is long overdue.
Whose interest is it that the plea of "Vojvodina Hungarians"
does not appear in the national media in USA.?
You have paraphrased and used Prof. Liptak's phrase of
"people from the fertile plains" and used it as the title to
your article to add a demeaning and cynical edge to
ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina, barely stopping short of
I am a member of the ethnic Hungarian community of
"people from the fertile plains." As my mother had passed away
this summer in Vojvodina, I had to place my ailing father in a
nursing home. My 18 year old niece who lives in my parents' house
tells us on the phone that the Karajina Serbs are involved in a
shooting across the street for a possession of a Croatian home.
I suggest to her to spend the night at the neighbours.
My father informs me that he has to sleep on the floor in the
hallway because the beds in the Home are taken up by the
Krajina Serbs. I for one want the Serbs to give up something:
the bed for my father that I am paying for.
The Hungarian and the Croatian homes in Vojvodina are taken by
force, or allotted to Krajina Serbs without any legal basis.
At he present times, the United States is pressuring the government
of Hungary to compensate for Jewish properties that
were taken away illegally under analogous circumstances fifty years ago, while
argue vehemently that this is not the time to ask Mr. Holbrooke
to raise the question of driving out human beings from their homes.
I visited Vojvodina this summer. I have spoken to Hungarian
teachers, priests, newspaper editors and political leaders and
they all conveyed the same message as Prof. Liptak's article about
the prospect of survival for what is left of the indigenous
Hungarian population of Vojvodina:
There is no time for theories, definitions or doctrines. We do not
want to drag anyone into a war for a small community of 350,000
people. We surely know better. Please do not underestimate the
political maturity of 1.6 million Hungarian Americans.
It not the desire for reenge, but simple human decency that
compels us to act now and speak out in face of injustice.
Prof. Liptak is one of the few American Hungarians who has embraced our cause
and we are ever so grateful to him.
Mr. Fencsik, you obviously chose not to know the predicament of
Hungarians in Vojvodina. Why do you go to such extreme length in
suggesting to do nothing on their behalf. You go as far as
suggesting to sacrifice the ethnic Hungarians of Vojvodina for the
prospect of expedient, but dubious peace in the region to make the
United states Government, the UN and NATO look good.
Coming from a Hungarian American, that hurts.
Hungarian Human Rights, Toronto,
The full copy of Prof. Liptak's article:"The balkan Tragedy:
Our Blind Spot for Vojvodina"will be available very soon on the
Web Site HUNCOR
|+ - ||Re: The Future of Central Europe (mind)
>My purpose in writing the attached essay is not so much to solicit comments
>or to spark a debate, but to show that there is a way out, that the ideals of
>Kossuth, Jaszi and Bibo are not dead, that the future does not have to be an
>exploited, colonialized, militarized and balkanized Central Europe and to
>suggest, that those of us who agree on that, should come together and spread
>these ideas. I also wrote this, because I agree with George Orwell, who said:
>"He who controls the past, controls the future and he who controls the
>present, controls the past." In other words, we can not have a better future
>without first understanding and accepting the errors of the past.
> THE FUTURE OF CENTRAL EUROPE:
> The Lessons Of A 75 Year Old Tragedy
>The 4th of June was the 75th anniversary of the Treaty of Trianon, the peace
>treaty which in 1920 mutilated and dismembered an ancient European nation:
>the kingdom of Hungary. At Trianon Hungary was deprived 63.6% of her
>inhabitants and 71.5% of her territory. This essay has three parts. I will
>first discuss the history of Hungary through the end of World War One,
>culminating in the Treaty. Next I will outline the Treaty, its architects,
>goals and consequences. I then will discuss Hungary's guilt and the events
>of the last 75 years to show that, just as Nazism was not born in Germany but
>in Versailles, so the tragedy of Bosnia and the evolving tragedy of the
>Balkans (some of it yet to occur) can all be traced back to Trianon. I
>conclude by outlining a concept which would reconstitute the Danubian Basin
>and could stabilize the whole of Central Europe.
> Pre-Trianon Hungary
> Hungary became a constitutional monarchy in 1222; her Golden Bull is
>junior by only 5 years to the English Magna Carta.
Neither the Magna Carta nor the Hungarian Golden Bull created a
constitutional monarchy. In Hungary we may speak about such institution
between 1867 and 1918.
The fight for Hungarian
>independence of 1703-1711 was led by Francis II Raksczy whose insurgent
>fighters were mostly Slovak and Ruthenian peasants. They proudly declared
>themselves to be Hungarians, as distinct from the racial term Magyar.
I do not believe that Slovak and Ruthenian peasants were patriotic
Hungarians at the beginning of the 18th century. They were the poorest folk
at that part of the world. In 1848/49 many Slovaks were hanged for opposing
Hungarian independence. Kossuth wanted to create a Danubian confederation
once he realized the bankruptcy of his nationality policies during the War
of Independence. But then, when he was in exile, it was too late, and
today, we still suffer the consequences of his extreme nationalism in 1848.
> From Sarajevo to Trianon
>At the beginning of this century, Russia sponsored pan-slavic agitation in
>the region. Archduke Francis Ferdinand was the main opponent of the creation
>of a Greater Serbia. His murder on June 28, 1914 in Sarajevo had been
>encouraged by Russia and engineered by Serbia.
Tsarist Russia never sponsored panslavism. Nicholas II always looked
askance at panslavists within and outside of his empire. The murder of
Ferdinand was neither encouraged nor approved by Russia. The government of
Serbia did not order it and it has not been proven to date that even the
Black Hand organization ordered such action.
The only member of the Council
>of Ministers of the Dual Monarchy who was opposed to a war of retaliation
>against Serbia was the Hungarian Premier, Count Stephen Tisza. When he was
True, Tisza at first opposed the war against Austria but once he was
reassured of German support the Prime Minister gave his blessing.
> From the fragments of Hungary, the unnatural successor states of
>Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and greater Romania were created. These strange
>entities forced Croats to live with Serbs and Czechs to live with Slovaks,
I am not sure what you mean by "unnatural state." Was the Dual Monarchy a
natural state? At least the Serbs and the Croats agreed to live together in
the same state but can we say the same thing about the Romanians and
Hungarians between 1867 and 1918?
> As to the claim of being a natural German ally, history proves just
>the opposite. Whenever Hungary was independent, she acted as a keystone of
>balance between the Germanic and Slavic peoples and prevented attempts at
>both Pan-Germanic and the Pan-Slavic expansions. In the first 500 years of
>her existence, starting with the battle of Lechfeld in 955, Hungary fought to
>block the spread of German influence and created stability by filling the
>power vacuum of the region. When under Germanic (Austrian) occupation between
>1688 and 1867, she twice rose against the Germans and eventually gained her
>independence from them.
it might be true that history is what historians write but history is not a
figment of the imagination of historians. Lechfeld? Do you mean the time
western army stopped the Hungarian marauders who raped, pillaged and robbed
towns and villages west, north and south of Hungary? What do you think of
mediaeval Hungarian imperialism on the Balkans, Galicia etc. The Anjou
kings of Hungary tried to conquer Italy, Poland, Bohemia. these events are
also part of history. The abuse of history, the distortion of history will
not enhence the best of cause. The injustices of Trianon must be explained
a better way.
> At the end of the Second World War, the worst crime of legalistic
>hypocrisy occurred: Eduard Benes, with the scandalous connivance of the
>Western Allies, invented the concept of collective responsibility and used
>it to confiscate the properties of the Hungarian minorities in Slovakia and
>later, to deport them in cattle cars. To understand the hypocrisy of this
>deed, one must realize that wartime Slovakia under Tiso was a protectorate of
>Nazi Germany, while it was the representative of the Hungarian minority in
>the Slovak parliament, Janos Esterhazy, who cast the only dissenting vote
>against the Jewish laws passed by that body. Yet, after the war, Esterhazy
>died in Czechoslovakian jail and the Hungarian minorities he represented were
>collectively sentenced as war criminals. Thereby, when the deported Jewish
>Hungarians returned from the death camps, they found their properties
>confiscated, because of their collective responsibility.
This is only half the story. One should not forget what happened to
Hungary's Jewish minority in 1944 and German minority in 1946. We are all
guilty in East Central Europe! Our history smells of death, oppression and
cruelty. To put and end to it, the list must be complete. The following
suggestions of Professor Liptak's are, nevertheless, the suggestion of a
> The United Nations should declare that all national minorities anywhere
>in the world (exceeding some minimum number, say 100,000) have the right to
>hold supervised plebiscites and receive cultural and linguistic autonomy, if
>the majority so desires. It should make no difference how these minorities
>evolved, how long they lived in the particular area, or what their language
>or religion is. Regardless of all that, they all have the right to maintain
>their heritage and determine their own cultural destiny. Once cultural
>autonomy is guaranteed, the main cause of tensions between Central European
>neighbors will also diminish.
> When the Hungarians enjoy the same autonomy in Romania as the Romanian
>minorities in Hungary, when the Serb, Russian, Turkish, Albanian, German, or
>any other minorities of the region, are also treated equally, the tensions
>will disappear and the rebuilding can start.
The idea of a Danubian Confederation is not a realistic one. There is too
much distrust in the region. Only the European Community and NATO can hope
to stabilize East Central Europe. Hungarian politicians except for the
Communist Party, are desperately pushing for Hungary's entry. Who else can
provide security from eastern expansionism but NATO for its own members?
Ideas like independent Transylvania and Danubian Confederation can only
create suspicion of Hungarian revisionism. They belong to the dustbin of
history, that is the dusty shelves of historians.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
|+ - ||Re: HUNGARY repeated (mind)
> SEVEN times in a day, that's INEXCUSABLE! Is someone asleep at HIX?
Only one copy was generated by HIX; I guess a major distribution point has
chuckled (then all seven message IDs should be the same). Hope it won't
do it again.
|+ - ||Re: inclusions of previous articles (mind)
Martha S. Bihari wrote:
> Posters of messages: can you please not include the whole line of
> discussion and quote everything that was ever said on the subject? It
> should suffice to quote: "Re: HUNGARY # ..." within the body of your
> oeuvre if you want to refer to long articles. We should all be able to
> get to the source through SENDDOC.
Gotthard wrote in response:
> . The listserver software at the GWUVM.GWU.EDU address does
> not allow the inclusion of too many quoted lines or sending multiple copies
> of messages to the posting address ). Your problems
> might disappear if you subscribe to this list without adding the extra
> HIX link, at least till HIX Jozsi fixes his interface.
HIX collects the articles AFTER they are sent out by the listserver at
GWUVM.GWU.EDU even if they were sent directly to HIX, therefore nothing
is broken here. Nice try, though... :-)