Hollosi Information eXchange /HIX/
HIX SCM 227
Copyright (C) HIX
1996-01-23
Új cikk beküldése (a cikk tartalma az író felelőssége)
Megrendelés Lemondás
1 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
2 Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind)  61 sor     (cikkei)
3 hungarian names? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
4 Re: Cenzúra mindenütt (mind)  31 sor     (cikkei)
5 Re: The wisdom of Mr. Nagy was Wally hates... (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
6 Re: Bela Kun (mind)  107 sor     (cikkei)
7 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
8 Transylvania from Tarna Mare (part 1) (mind)  118 sor     (cikkei)
9 Re: Forint mint valuta? (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
10 Re: Re- Transylvania borders (mind)  19 sor     (cikkei)
11 Read this,please (mind)  25 sor     (cikkei)
12 What happened to "akg.isk.huninet.hu"? (mind)  9 sor     (cikkei)
13 Hermes nails himself again (mind)  52 sor     (cikkei)
14 Re: The wisdom of Mr. Nagy was Wally hates... (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
15 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tra (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
16 Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
17 Re: Zoli Fekete is an asshole (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
18 Re: Cenzúra mindenütt (mind)  11 sor     (cikkei)
19 Re: Cenzúra mindenütt (mind)  37 sor     (cikkei)
20 Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind)  13 sor     (cikkei)
21 Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind)  8 sor     (cikkei)
22 Re: Wally hates Romanians (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
23 Can you help these Hungarians? (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
24 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  34 sor     (cikkei)
25 Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind)  28 sor     (cikkei)
26 Re: Transylvania from Tarna Mare (part 1) (mind)  32 sor     (cikkei)
27 Re: Goncz hazudik (mind)  96 sor     (cikkei)
28 Re: Bela Kun (mind)  12 sor     (cikkei)
29 Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind)  27 sor     (cikkei)
30 Re: Cenzura mindenutt (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
31 Contact wanted in Baia Mare region (mind)  6 sor     (cikkei)
32 Romanian-Hungarian Reconciliation (was Re: Bela Kun) (mind)  61 sor     (cikkei)
33 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  2 sor     (cikkei)
34 Historical Maps (mind)  7 sor     (cikkei)
35 Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind)  47 sor     (cikkei)
36 Population Statistics (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
37 ABSEES Online (mind)  68 sor     (cikkei)
38 Re: Goncz hazudik (mind)  80 sor     (cikkei)
39 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind)  5 sor     (cikkei)
40 Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind)  75 sor     (cikkei)
41 Re: Forint mint valuta? (mind)  15 sor     (cikkei)
42 Re: Bela Kun (mind)  30 sor     (cikkei)
43 Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tra (mind)  10 sor     (cikkei)
44 Re: Re- Transylvania borders (mind)  56 sor     (cikkei)

+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >, peter sigsgaard > writes:
>In Denich "Jeg elsker dig"

   in swedish:  Jag avskyr dig
>
+ - Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The preceding message was crossposted to all of 
 
Newsgroups: 
soc.culture.latin-america,
soc.culture.lebanon,
soc.culture.liberia,
soc.culture.maghreb,
soc.culture.magyar,
soc.culture.malagasy,
soc.culture.malaysia,
soc.culture.mexican,
soc.culture.mexican.american,
soc.culture.misc,
soc.culture.mongolian,
soc.culture.native,
soc.culture.nepal,
soc.culture.new-zealand,
soc.culture.nicaragua,
soc.culture.nigeria,
soc.culture.nordic,
soc.culture.pacific-island,
soc.culture.pakistan,
soc.culture.palestine,
soc.culture.peru,
soc.culture.polish,
soc.culture.portuguese,
soc.culture.puerto-rico,
soc.culture.punjab,
soc.culture.quebec,
soc.culture.rep-of-georgia,
soc.culture.romanian,
soc.culture.russian,
soc.culture.scottish,
soc.culture.sierra-leone,
soc.culture.singapore,
soc.culture.slovenia,
soc.culture.somalia,
soc.culture.south-africa,
soc.culture.
 
  Make sure you trim your headers before proceeding in this thread.
 
alex
 

In article >,
Michael Paterson > wrote:
 (Curt Springer) wrote:
>
>>Au New-Hampshire, nous parlons Yankee.  On prononce le numero 33 comme 
>>"Thitty-Three".
>
>In the Hebrides we say, "two hands, one foot and the other foot less
>the thumb and the piggy."
>
>
>
>Mi\cheil Rob Mac Pha\druig
>druidh/duine-uasail
>
>
+ - hungarian names? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

greetings,
     
     can anyone here provide some info on whether these names are of magyar 
     origin or not:
     
     1.  szedressy (or szedresi).
     
     2.  soimos (or szoimos or soimozs or any other sz combination for both 
         s-es).
     
     thanks,
     
     -cristian
+ - Re: Cenzúra mindenütt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Engem az lepett meg, hogy ez meglepetes. Ezek a vagasok a kispolgari 
alszemerem egyenes kovetkezmenyei. Mindenki majd meg hal egy kis krimiert, de 
a dolgot nem szeretne olyannak latni amilyen, igy az ugynevezett brutalisabb 
jeleneteket kivagjak. 
Szamomra sokkal agresszivebb tud lenni egy film amiben jol megkomponalt 
feszultseg van, mint barmilyen veres jelenet. Mivel az elobbi nem olyan jol 
tettenerheto a primitiv izles szamara nem marad mas mint a "kezzel foghato" 
dolgok kivagasa. Olyan ez mint amikor az MTV-n az agresszivitastol csopogo, a 
bunozest igen pozitiv fenyben beallito rap clipjen letakarjak a lofegyvereket. 
No ettol aztan mindenkinek jobb lesz a lelkiismerete.

Tobb idovel illetve jobb fullel rendelkezo egyedek eszrevehetik, hogy a radio 
is (legalabb is a svajci) vagja a szamokat, illetve kritikus szavaknal 
pillanatnyi elnyomast alkalmaz, ami nem nagyon eszlelheto a ritmus epsege 
folytan.
Kulonosen sajnalok egy vagast egy kedvenc dalomban, melyben az enekesno arrol 
panaszkodik, hogy elhagytak (Meroben ujszeru tema!). Eros szavakat hasznalna 
volt parja viselkedesere, ha hagynak, de nem hagyjak. A dolog elveszti eredeti 
koncepciojat, dinamikajat.

Tegyuk fel, hogy a filmek muveszeti termekek. Kivancsi volnek van-e joga a 
musorkozlonek atszabni a filmet, igy beleavatkozva az alkotasba.

A butasag mindig gyoz.



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------
+ - Re: The wisdom of Mr. Nagy was Wally hates... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On 16 Jan 1996  wrote:

> Isn't that obvious, Tamas?  They just can't get over the fact that it was a
> Hungarian pastor who showed more guts against Ceausescu than all of them
> put together.  This is why all the mud throwing at him now.

Good ol' Panonica, just coudn't help slinging his own bit o' mud !
Not going to let you get away with it. Besides, getting involved in too
many 'controversies' is not good for you, you loosing that flat edge of the
'puszta' !

> BTW, I wonder why they don't say about Martin Luther King, Jr. and Jesse
> Jackson that they, too, should have minded the gospel.
> Joe

But they do Panonica ! JJ is getting all the crap that a politician gets.
And Luther King got a bullet too. Could you imagine if the 'barbarous',
'fundamentalist' Romanians gave Tokes the same consideraion. Oh, my, we'd
never here the end of it !

Again, for some of the duller minds, I am only saying that Mr. Tokes cannot
have it both ways. He cannont command the respect that NEUTRALITY in mundane
affair gives a priest, while meddling in partisan politics. 

m. cristian
+ - Re: Bela Kun (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Alexander N. Bossy > wrote:
> 
>Not only was Hungary worse than most of her critics, but even within the
>Austro-Hungarian Empire itself, Hungary, after 1867 treated her minorities
>far worse than Austria treated hers.  For example, the Austrian half of the
>empire got universal suffrage in 1905.  Hungary resisted until after the
>fall of the Dual Monarchy.

BTW, when did Switzerland pass universal suffrage?
Besides, Austria is not a good example to cite because I was referring
to Hungary's critics which Austria, being in union with Hungary, could
hardly have been.  I was of course referring to France, England, etc.
After all they were sitting on a world-wide colonial empire at the time
they so pontificated over Hungary.

Now, as to Austria better treating her minorities than Hungary hers,
that might be an interesting subject by itself but I doubt an objective
comparison is possible in view of prior Habsburg policies of using such
minorities as a counterweight against Hungary.

>Joe you are quoting me completely out of context.  My argument was
>precisely that both forced Magyarization and forced Romanization are wrong.

Well, it looked to me like you were saying that if one was right then
the other is right, too.  That's slightly different, no?  In other
words, Romanians want to justify their current policies on Hungarian
policies of 100 years ago.  Figures.

> However, if Hungarians (you included) keep defending the forced
>Magyarization campaigns of yesteryear as acceptable within the cultural
>context of  that time, you are also defending forced Romanianization today.

I am only defending those policies against being characterized as far
worse than they were.  You will be hard pressed to find anything from me
praising them.  But to you apparently, opposing your excessive charges 
amounts to praising what you oppose.  That figures, too.

>  Switzerland, only across the
>Imperial border is another very good example.  Not only were minorities
>treated fairly, they were given fully equal citizenship and self-rule, with
>major concerns taken for their continued existance. 

There goes Switzerland again.  Funny to hear you holding it up as an
example so soon after so many Romanians (including perhaps you) so
vehemently objected to its use as a model for multiple official languages, 
saying it's a _federal_ state, thus not comparable to Romania's situation.
Very funny, Alexander, very funny! ;-)

>Do I need to repost Macartney's clear acceptlance of the fact that the
>majority of the population transfered to Romania wanted the transfer? 

I was not referring to an all-or-nothing plebiscite but to one that
would have helped to draw the new borders to more accurately follow the
ethnic dividing lines.  In the only case when such plebiscite was held
after being forced by an armed rebellion in Western Hungary, the
borders were indeed adjusted in Hungary's favor.  So that's what I was
talking about.  Had they had those kind of plebiscites in Transylvania,
too, I think the border would have been much closer to the II. Vienna
borders than to the current ones.

I think using this all-or-nothing type of view Romanians like to stress
so much is self-serving because on that basis, the borders could have
likely be drawn at Tisza as well and you could probably still claim that
Romanians are in majority.  But by the same token, Hungarians could also
argue that by pushing the border even more North, North-West, Romanians
would be in minority vis-a-vis the Hungarians.  How's that for a nice
what-if exercise?  But getting back to earth again, my view is that a
just border would have left about equal number of each-other's
minorities on both sides.

>While a plebicite would have certainly eased future tensions, the fact that
>one was not held does not in any way lend credence to your argument that
>the majority fo the population might very well have wanted to remain under
>the Magyar yoke. 

On this basis, you should not be offended when Hungarians in Romania
consider themselves under Romanian yoke.

>Rather, it opened up the opportunity, which Romanians, both in the Old
>Kingdom, and in Transylvania, took advantage of. 

Well, is it OK then if Hungarians might consider to follow that example
some time in the future when the opportunity opens up?

>> I don't think it's always a given that an 
>>ethnic minority in one country wants to join the mother country across 
>>the border.  Just look at Moldova now. 
> 
>1) Bessarabia secceded from the Soviet Union, so it doesn't serve as an
>example of an ethnic minority wanting to remain under the yoke of a foreign
>power.

Is Bessarabia the same as Moldova?  I thought there was only some
overlap between them.

>But, they will have the choice, something that neither they, nor the
>Transylvanians had before 1919.

Nor the Hungarians in today's Transylvania. ;-)

>  3) Romania will be a more attractive
>country to join once her neo-communist regime falls. 

I think economic attractiveness is almost always primary.
So then let's add this, too, to the count of our mutual agreements. ;-)

Joe
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

How can you go further and say what you mean, that you don't mean it just
cursorily.  That you really really mean it?
+ - Transylvania from Tarna Mare (part 1) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Posted to SocCultureRomanian and SCMagyar (through different
gateways)
 ============
 This was in September 1926: 

 ... In Satu Mare I bought a ticket to Halmeu, where I arrived after an hour.
 When I arrived in the station I felt completely lost because I couldn't hear
a word of Romanian.
The station was divided in two, where the second half was part of
Czechoslovakia, and the border guards where asking passengers to go
around the back of the station.  There behind the station was a large
open area, like a market, where on one side under some trees, in the
shade a bunch of one horse carriages were waiting.  The drivers were
inviting in Hungarian the just arrived train passengers to step in their
"taxis".  I had no clue what in the world they where talking about.  I had
in one hand my luggage and in the other my coat and was walking
around completely confused while the drivers where looking at me and
seemed like stepping on each other to get my attention calling me :
"Teseg, parancolny !", waving their hands when I approached them. 
They turned out to be all Jews, with beards and sidebrows, dressed up
with long black coats like priests.  I shouted to them in Romanian that I
don't speak Hungarian and if any of them speaks my language to let me
know.  Only one of them responded : 
- "Nua, io stii putin putin rumunesti, placa, domnule, la mine!" 
( Nua, me speak little little Romanian, go, Mister, to mine !) 
showing me through gestures his carriage.  I approached his carriage
and he didn't wait long to rip my luggage from my hands and jumped on
his bench inviting me to step in the carriage.  I told him that I want to go al
l
the way to Tarna Mare and would like to know how much it costs.
- "Oi, vei ; pune la Tarna, tare mult iest.  Traba un halt si cal hrana iest, s
a
poata mere puna acolo.  Vede singur asta lucru est.  Traba vine si napoi,
iara drum mult iest.  Traba pleteste lei 700 drum, ca drum reu iest, vede
singur asta si traba vine napoi "
( Oi, vei ; to Tarna, big long way is.  Job with stop and horse food is, to
can go all the way there.  See alone this thing is.  Job come back also, 
long bad way is.  Job pay 700 Lei way, 'cause road bad is, see alone
this and job come back must )
I did not complain about this deal because I had no choice.  I stepped into
the carriage and we started on our way with the horse first trapping and
later walking.  The driver was trying to pull my tongue asking about my
business in Tarna and how long I will be staying there.  When I told him
that I was sent there for one year as teacher, he said that many Jews
live there and they make good money and that the village is big and rich,
etc., etc. so that I wouldn't notice the poor ol' horse getting real tired and
barely pulling.  It reminded me of Toma's  fifteen year old horse back
home in Poenari.  I wondered if pretty soon we might have to pull the
carriage ourselves.
	After  10-12 km. through the flatlands that seemed scorched by
the summer draught and passing some water drybeds where one could
not see any trees, we arrived in the Batarci village.  The driver said we
are halfway to Tarna Mare and pulled in front of a store and what
turnout to be the local watering hole.  He hung the bag with oats on the
horse's head and invited me to join him inside.  I refused and he asked
what I like to drink because he'll bring it out for me.  I insisted in my
refusal and he went to sit down at a table where he ate along with the
bartender who was also one of his kin.  He came over with a wine spritz
but I refused again so he ended up drinking it as well.  The horse finished
his oats and the driver his spritz and we continued our journey through
the villages Comlausa and Valea Seaca and only around four o'clock in
the afternoon finally arrived in Tarna Mare (Big Tarna).   This village was
indeed big and spread along the Tarna river valley along.  The road
bordered by willows followed both sides of the river while houses layed
on the other side of the road.  We passed the river and continued on the
right side and back on the left and finally on the right again until we
reached a school house.  The building was surprisingly  big and taken
care off but the small park in front seemed rather neglected.  After all it
was september and at the end of the summer break.  Near the road there
were two classrooms separated by a hallway and in the back on the
right side another classroom, while the other side had the director's
home.  The yard was large and in the back continued with a small
orchard and garden.
	I presented myself to the director, Doros, upon arrival and told him
who I was.  The man was around 50 years old and quite tall, well built
and sure of himself.  He started asking the driver how much he charged
me.  When he heard that I was charged 700 Lei, he hit the roof and got
red in the face,  started shouting and told the driver that he was a cruel
thief who was trying to take advantage of a newcomer, a young teacher
sent to one end of the country from the other.  Renegotiation was
promptly demanded and the scared driver dropped the price to 500 Lei,
which I immediately paid.  The driver left quite happy though, while the
director commented again that my driver knew very well of my lack of
knowledge about this place and tried to make some extra money out of
me.
	I was invited in his house, which was  also post office, whose
administrator was actually his own wife, but he was the one who was
actually doing the work because his wife was only doing the house
chores.  He started asking me where I went to school, if I worked as a
teacher before and soon thereafter invited me to take a walk around the
village to look for a room while asking me about my preferences and
expectations.  I told him that I prefer a quiet room somewhere close to
school where I can be alone and that I would like to have meals served in
there and it would be nice if the landlady can do laundry also.  He found
me a room close to school that required 1500 Lei monthly including meals
and laundry.  What seemed most difficult though about the place is that
everybody spoke Hungarian and even Romanians barely spoke their
language.  My host was Ianos Bordak and the director said he was
Romanian but barely spoke Romanian while his wife had no clue of it. 
They had no children and my room was a peasant room with simple
furniture, two tall beds, one table and two chairs, but had no wooden
floor.  The house was on the left bank of the river, which was not deep
but had a lot of small fish.  On the river bank there were many tall
willows and alder trees.  Houses were on both banks and one can
cross on small, narrow  wooden footbridges from one to the other. 
After I dropped off my luggage I went back to school where the director
took me along to introduce the village Uniate priest, also called Doros but
not related, and the village store owner called Torok.  Both of them spoke
very well Romanian.  I finally got home that evening and my host invited
me to dinner served in my own room.  He said to me :
- " Teseg, domnule, vocsoraszny, placa la masa !"
I answered, how can I know if I haven't tasted it yet.  I was so tired and
ate it all but don't remember if it was good or not.

(to be continued)
Translated from " Amintiri dintr-o viata de om ... " de Miron Cosoroaba

Adrian Cosoroaba
+ - Re: Forint mint valuta? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
VAX2.concordia.ca > wrote:
>
>Az egyik baratom azt allitja hogy a forint konvertibilis januartol, avagy
>mindenki annyi dollart vehet otthon amennyit csak akar. Van ennek az alli-
>tasnak valami alapja? Minden segito felvilagositast elore koszonok szepen.

Miert, min torod a fejed? ;-)

JP
+ - Re: Re- Transylvania borders (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Jan 14, 1996 20:50:47 in article <Re: Re- Transylvania borders>,
 ()' wrote: 
> BTW, your figures only go to show 
>that the partition of Transylvania by Vienna II. was far more based on 
>ethnic self-determination than the Trianon borders, though by 1940 the 
>ethnic distribution got more complicated than it was in 1920, so 
>achieving perfection was by then more difficult.  
 
Hi Joe: 
 
In order to make certain that our agreements don't get out of hand, let me
disagree with this one ;-).  The majority of the population on the
territory transfered to Romania under the terms of Trianon was ethnic
Romanian.  60% of the population on the territory transfered back to
Hungary under the terms of the Vienna diktat was also ethnic Romanian. 
Consequently, it most certainly was not "far more based on ethnic
self-determination". 
 
Alexander
+ - Read this,please (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution:
Organization: 
Keywords: 
Cc: 
 Hi all,
  I'm a Italian student boy from Padova (Padua), about 40 km
  from Venezia (Venice).I speak English (a little) , French
  and Italian...
 
  I would like to correspond with some friends (male or 
  female).
  
  I like friendship and loyal relationship, I have many
  hobbies and interests and I'm very nice (I think!)
 
  If you want to know me better contact me at:
 
               
                      or
             
                   
 
  Thanks for reading it,                Piero
+ - What happened to "akg.isk.huninet.hu"? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I was corresponding with someone at that address but now I get the
response "error getting network address for 'akg.isk.huninet.hu'.  What
happened to this network address, and what, if anything is it called now?
  I would appreciate an e-mail response.  I am pretty sure that akg was
"Alternative Kozgazdagsagi Gymnazium"
Thanks,
Lee Laborczfalvi
Sydney
Australia
+ - Hermes nails himself again (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hermes1  > wrote:
>
>On 16 Jan 1996  wrote:
>
>> Well, finally we have you on record as being on the side of guys who
>> approve bullets for for pasztors, such as MLK and Laszlo Tokes.
>> Joe
>
>In Hungarian, your snide comment would be termed as 'alatomos'.
>I guess I should take it as a complement. I nailed you to the wall 
>and you are out of rational arguments.

What you nailed is yourself.  I only had to point it out.  (and that's
not even saying anything about your lousy Hungarian spelling. ;)
>
>No matter how loose your interpretation of what I meant, or what I may
>approve  of, the fact remains that, this is a risk a politician takes 
>more often than 'a pasztor'.

Let's backtrack then.  After your umpteenth harangue against bishop
Tokes' involvement in politics I brought up other examples of clergymen
doing the same, among them Martin Luther King, in order to prove that
your blanket opposition of clergymen in politics is not universally
shared.  You saw this as proving your case (i.e., they should only tend
to the spiritual needs of their flock), by pointing out how he ended
his life.  From this the conclusion is inescapable: pastors and
preachers, such as MLK and Tokes better stay away from politics or else.
That "else" being a well deserved bullet.  Did you applaud upon the news
in the mid '80s learning that the outspoken Polish Solidarity priest,
Father Popieluszko, was murdered?  After all, he did the bad things;
involved himself with politics, right?
Of course that's what you meant, as your reply to Tamas also indicates:

>Tamas that depends on whom you want to be. If you want to be a nazi
>fighter, fine. If your calling is to the Lord, your only business in a
>matter such as you describe above, would be to preach the Word and
>minister the Lords forgiveness to those nazis that are ready to repent !

Interesting.  One of the biggest charge lodged against the RC Church is,
that their priests did not do more to save Jews from deportation to death
camps. 

>For if you pick up the sword of politics, even as a priest, your butt
>belongs to the public, and it shall, and may be sodomized in ways that=20
>may  yet be unimaginable to you ! All of that as prelude of course, to
>the hell that most politicians amply deserve.=20

There it is in black and white again: clergymen involving themselves in
politics deserve what's coming to them.  Thanks for making it so clear
again.

Panonescu
+ - Re: The wisdom of Mr. Nagy was Wally hates... (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Hermes1  > wrote:
>
>> BTW, I wonder why they don't say about Martin Luther King, Jr. and Jesse
>> Jackson that they, too, should have minded the gospel.
>> Joe
>
>But they do Panonica ! JJ is getting all the crap that a politician gets.
>And Luther King got a bullet too.

Well, finally we have you on record as being on the side of guys who
approve bullets for for pasztors, such as MLK and Laszlo Tokes.

Joe
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tra (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In Kiswahili,......I love you,...is,....K U M A N Y O K O.
Good luck in using it in Kenya.
+ - Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Lee Laborczfalvi ) wrote:

:   Here in Australia, tollways have been a fact of life now for many 
: years, and believe me, when private enterprise builds a road, it is built 
: in one third the time that it would take the government to build it, and 
: the roads are much better than the government would otherwise build.  So 
: I am more than happy to pay the money to use a better road.A

Could you provide three examples of roads built in Australia i
entirely by private enterprise *without* government subsidies and
guarantees in, say, the last three decades?

d.A.
+ - Re: Zoli Fekete is an asshole (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Vladimir Fomin ) wrote:
: 
: Aren't Hungarian people ashamed that a rabid moron portrays himself as
: the FAQ keeper in their newsgroup????

I can't speak n behalf of all readers/contributors, but I am not ashamed.
I would venture to guess that most others feel similarly, whether or noti
they agree with Zoli Fekete's views.

: 
: Zoli Fekete's mother was a Gypsy whore (Roma=Romanian) and his father was
: the truckload of Russian soldiers who raped her in 1956.
:

You seem to have intimate knowledge of his origins. But "Fekete" is a
rather rare gypsy or Russian name.

: 
: Actually, Russian soldiers were too squeamish.  It was uzbek soldiers
: that raped Zoli Feteke's mother.

Ah! Is "Fekete" an Uzbeki name?

: 
: I urge all honest and honorable hungarians on internet to write a 
: real FAQ and to retire Zoli Kekete where it belongs.
:

I doubt that a large number of readers share your sense of urgency.
Could you post a list of suggestions and improvements?

d.A.
+ - Re: Cenzúra mindenütt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > , 
writes:
> A legtobb film itt
>altalaban 9-kor kezdodik, s 11-re er veget. Ugyanis akkor jon a "news",
>s itt a musorok pontos kezdesere sokat adnak.

Itt viszont nem. Nem ritkák a 20-perces csúszások a müsorhoz képest.
Biztos nem ezért csinálják. Különben is: másodpercek kivágásáról van
csak szó.

Tamás
+ - Re: Cenzúra mindenütt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article > Peter Szaszvari, 
writes:
>Kulonosen sajnalok egy vagast egy kedvenc dalomban, melyben az enekesno arrol 
>panaszkodik, hogy elhagytak (Meroben ujszeru tema!). Eros szavakat hasznalna 
>volt parja viselkedesere, ha hagynak, de nem hagyjak. A dolog elveszti eredeti
 
>koncepciojat, dinamikajat.

Csak az érdekesség kedvéért: melyik ez a szám és ki énekli ?

>Tegyuk fel, hogy a filmek muveszeti termekek. Kivancsi volnek van-e joga a 
>musorkozlonek atszabni a filmet, igy beleavatkozva az alkotasba.

Mindenképpen van joga hozzá, hogyha az adott ország törvényei által
tiltott
dolgokat kivágja. Hogy a saját hatáskörében mit vághat ki, nem tudom,
nyil-
ván az adásvételi szerződés szabályoz valamit. 

A németeknél nem ez a szörnyü. Van nekik egy öncenzúra-hivataluk, ami-
nek a nevét elfelejtettem. Ezt a bizottságot a médiában érdekelt magán-
tőke pénzeli, és maguk számára határoznak meg önkéntes korlátokat, hogy
a 'közizlést' meg ne sértsék... (nemrég volt egy beszélgetés a bizottság
egyik
tagjával (esztéta), az isten tudja már csak, melyik csatornán) Engem
nagyon
megdöbbentett, hogy ilyen létezik náluk. Egyből a szocializmus öncenzúrája
jutott az eszembe: szegény osszik hova kerültek...

A kérdés igazából az olyan csatornák esetében kényes, mint az Arte
például, amit nagyon szeretek, amely kifejezetten kultúrális, müvészi
profilú. Mivel rendszeresen foglalkoznak szubkultúrákkal is, a cenzúra
kérdése kifejezetten pikáns: hogy lehet egy szubkultúrát (amely akár a
nagyközönség szemében 'deviáns' is lehet) bemutatni, hogy ha a szubkul-
túra lényegét a közizlés miatt esetleg  ki kell vágni...
 
Tamás
+ - Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Lee Laborczfalvi  > wrote:
>   It is now a fact of life that citizens of any country (not just 
>Hungary) will have to operate on a user-pays system.  This is the most 
>logical solution to obtaining new infrastructure in a country.  It is 
>also the fairest.  It is unaceptable to expect those taxpayers who do noy 
>use a road to pay for its construction indirectly through their taxes.

OK, but then it also follows that motorists should not pay a
disproportionate share of the taxes as they do know with the outrageous
rates included in gasoline prices.  Politicians should stop treating
motorists as some kind of milking cow.

Joe
+ - Re: RE> Is that highway paved with gold? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

> wrote:
>
>OK, but then it also follows that motorists should not pay a
>disproportionate share of the taxes as they do know with the outrageous
                                                ^^^^
                        This was supposed to be "now".  Sorry.

Joe
+ - Re: Wally hates Romanians (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Jan 14, 1996 02:40:38 in article <Re: Wally hates Romanians>,
 (Andras Nagy)' wrote: 
  
>: In America, it is popular to pick on a few countries while ignoring much

>: worse ones.  So, Iraq's government is reviled while Syria's is embraced.
 
>: Chile under Pinochet was condemed, while much more brutal governments in

>: Bolivia and Paraguay were accepted.  South Africa was reviled while
tribal 
>: None of this is to say that Romania's treatment of her ethnic minorities

>: has no room for improvement.  It obviously does.  However, Romania's 
>: treatment of her minorities is no worse than that in most of the Soviet 
>: block, and far better in our "friends" like increasingly fascist
Croatia.  
 
>I do think that since you are posting on soc.culture.magyar most on the 
>group will not give a rats ass of other countries record on minorities. 
>Most will pay a very serious attention to Romania and specifically the 
>conditions of Hungarians there.  
 
Which is fine with me.  However, if American attitudes are brought into
play, it is only fair to discuss those. 
 
Alexander
+ - Can you help these Hungarians? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I have a few Hungarian friends.  One has written to me about her niece who is
in her mid-20's who would like to come to an english  speaking country to learn
the language better and to see the culture.  In exchange, she can help in a
   household and care for childen.  I doubt that she could get a temporary work
visa and the Au Pair program does not recognize Eastern European countries so
she would have to do this probably on a visitors visa.
    Similarly, my friends' brother-in-law is desperate to come perhaps to the
same town.  In exchange, he can cook, and do handyman work and build small
structures or carpentry.  I don't know where else to look to help these
very kind, tolerant, and reliable individuals.
  They are very very keen to do this.  Any suggestions, and I will forward them
   Thank you Kossonum and Szia (I am sorry, I don't speak Hungarian).
Allison D Morrison           
West Lafayette Indiana USA   If I can operate a PC, anyone can
(317)497-2761
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

>On Sun, 7 Jan 1996, Alice Egyed wrote:
>
>> Hungarian:           szeretlek
>> > Polish:            kocham cie
>> > Turkish:           seni seviyorum
>> > German :           Ich liebe dich
>> > Francias:          Je t'aime
>> > Italiano :         Ti amo
>> > Siamese :          Chan rak ter
>> > Sverige :          Jag =E4lskar dig
>> > Espanyol  :        Te amo.
>> > Malay:             Aku cinta pada mu
>> > Indonesian:        Aku sayang pada mu
>> > Mandarin:          Wo Ai Ni
>> > Tamil:             Gud Gu
>> > Tagalog:           Mahal Kita
>> > Ilocano:           Ai Ayating Kita
>> > Singaporean:       Who the hell are you ?

>Italiano:  Ti voglio bene - which I saw in a cartoon, male to female and=20
>means literally 'I want you a lot' - which I would say speaks a lot for=20
>the italian male psyche!

They also use "Ti amo" but it is weaker and tends to come across as insincere.
Which of course says even more about the Italian male psyche !

How about:

Kiribati: I Tangiriko

There's apparently over 500 Pacific Island languages so we should be able to 
come up with a few more.

Anna Percy
+ - Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
 (Richard & Myzet Couprie) wrote:

>
> Can you provide me with your national written 33, or if you have a
> non-roman lanquage (like China, Japan, Arabic, ... maybe a picture (GIF,
> TIFF, Anything...) of your national 33
> Could you also mention in wich lanquage it is?
> It would be much apprieciated!!
> 
> Because I post this message to all SOC.CULTURE countries, it's allmost
> impossible to check them all out. So if you could be so kind to eMail it
> to:
> 
> 

OK, Rick, in portuguese '33' is said "trinta e tres". (literally 'Thirty
and three')
In phonetic transcription you you can make it: [trintitrech]
(sorry, true phonetic symbols are not avaliable in Usenet news)

Hope you've got it.

Best

Fernando Martinho
Departamento de Linguas
Universidade de Aveiro (PORTUGAL)
+ - Re: Transylvania from Tarna Mare (part 1) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Adrian Cosoroaba  > wrote:

> This was in September 1926: 
>
> ... In Satu Mare I bought a ticket to Halmeu, where I arrived after an hour.
> When I arrived in the station I felt completely lost because I couldn't hear
>a word of Romanian.
>The station was divided in two, where the second half was part of
>Czechoslovakia, and the border guards where asking passengers to go
>around the back of the station.  There behind the station was a large
>open area, like a market, where on one side under some trees, in the
>shade a bunch of one horse carriages were waiting.  The drivers were
>inviting in Hungarian the just arrived train passengers to step in their
>"taxis".  I had no clue what in the world they where talking about.  I had
>in one hand my luggage and in the other my coat and was walking
>around completely confused while the drivers where looking at me and
>seemed like stepping on each other to get my attention calling me :
>"Teseg, parancolny !", waving their hands when I approached them. 
>They turned out to be all Jews, with beards and sidebrows, dressed up
>with long black coats like priests.  I shouted to them in Romanian that I
>don't speak Hungarian and if any of them speaks my language to let me
>know.  Only one of them responded : 

I found this piece very enjoyable and could almost see the described
events with my mental eyes.  The whole thing sounds very authentic about
this God-forsaken remote, sleepy border town.  Time moves especially
slow at such places and it's obvious from the description that 10 years
after Hungarian rule, not many things have changed.

Keep the installments coming!

Joe
+ - Re: Goncz hazudik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>>>Nemzetidegen ideologiara kituno pelda a sajat borunkon is megtapasztalt
>>>'letezo szocializmus' ideologiaja, amely a proletar internacionalizmust a
>>>nemzetfogalom fole helyezte. Az ebben hivo kommunistak pedig nemzeti-
>>>degenul gondolkodnak. Ennek az ideologianak rendkivul nagy szerepe volt
>>>abban, hogy az orszag gyakorlatilag *gyarmati* statuszat a lakossag na-
>>>gyobb resze egyszeruen nem vette eszre, illetve nem vett rola tudomast.
>
>>Ha ez igy van (a gyarmati statusz eszre nem vetele), akkor letezett-e
>>"nemzetfogalom"?
>
>Ez egy buta kerdes: egy 1000 eves allamisaggal rendelkezo orszagnak
>szok lenni mar valami nemzetfogalma, rendszerint egy szerves fejlo-
>des eredmenyekeppen kialakult, tehat koronkent valtozo.

De hat ha a "proletar internacionalizmus" ideologiajat (barmit is jelentsen ez)
sikerult a "nemzetfogalom" fole helyezni (amint irtad), akkor szerintem
legalabbis gyengus volt a "nemzetfogalom". Bar, mit ertesz "nemzetfogalom"
alatt? (Velemenyem szerint nem sikerult a nemzetfogalom fole helyezni, inkabb
csak megturt volt. Lehet, ha tovabb tart az az allapot, akkor sikerul a
nemzetfogalom fole helyezni.)

>>En inkabb ebben latom a kommunistak problemajat, hogy a hatalmat ki nem
>>engedtek a kezukbol, es nem az hogy, "nemzetidegenul" gondolkodtak. (Lehet,
>>hogy a ketto egyutt jar?)
>
>Van kapcsolat a ketto kozott.  Az utobbi az elozo kovetkezmenye.

Nem hiszem, szerintem a hatalomvagy es a nemzeti hovatartozas nem fugg ossze.
Barki, barhol visszaelhet a hatalommal, ha ugy gondolja, es van ra modja. A
masik lenezese szerintem nem a nemzeti hovatartozas fuggvenye. Hogy milyen 
modszerrel, ideologiaval indokolja, az a helyzettol es egyentol fugg.

>>Itt van Mexiko esete. A PRI (Partido Revolucionario Institucional...vagy vala
mi
>>hasonlo, avagy az Intezmenyesitett Forradalmi Part - jo part nev, mi? :-)) ma
r
>>vagy 70 eve van hatalmon, allitolag "szabad" valasztasokkal.
>
>Naggyabol ennyi is Mexiko tortenelme, ugyhogy nem erdemes osszevetni
>Magyarorszaggal.

Szerintem ez messze nem Mexiko tortenelme, es csak azert hoztam fel a peldat,
mert itt is visszaelt a hatalommal az uralkodo part, es ezek az emberek nem a
"proletar internacionalizmus" ideologiaja szerint mukodtek, hanem egyszeru
hatalomvagybol; mint ahogy a kommunistak.

>>>Minden olyan politikai ideologia nemzetbarat, amely egy nemzet erdekeit
>>>semmilyen korulmenyek kozott nem hajlando mas szempontok miatt
>>>hatterbe szoritani, amely nemzetfogalmanak meghatarozo resze a szu-
>>>verenitas, illetve az arra valo torekves. Amely ideologia a nemzet szu-
>>>verenitasat, politikai mozgasteret korlatozza  a 'nemzet erdekeire' hi-
>>>vatkozva az nem nemzetbarat.
>
>>Ezek szerint keves "nemzetbarat" politikai hatalom volt I. Istvantol
>>Hornig, foleg 1526 utan.
>
>Tevedsz. Az akkori nemzetfogalom volt mas. Utalnek a Szentkoronara,
>rendisegre.

Akkor a Hunyadi Matyas halala utan miert esett szet az orszag 40 ev alatt?
Miert tudott csak 26 000 katonat osszegyujteni II Lajos Mohacsnal? (Valami
ilyesmi adatokra emlekszem, lehet, hogy tevedek.) Ha lett volna valamifele
(nemzeti) ideologia, ami osszetartja a rendeket, akkor szerintem nagyobb
ellenallast fejtenek ki a torok ellen.

>>Aztan kaosz Matyas kiraly halala utan.
>
>Nem ertem, hogy mire gondolsz. Tul sokfelekeppen tudnam ertelmezni,
>ezert inkabb nem talalgatnek.

Arra, hogy ha lett volna valami fele "nemzetbarat" politika, vagy valamifele 
"nemzetfogalom" akkor nem hiszem, hogy a torokok olyan gyorsan hatalomhoz 
jutnak Magyarorszagon. Eleg sokaig sikerult a deli hatart megvedeni a torokok 
ellen. Matyas halala utan nagyon gyorsan romlott a helyzet. Amennyire a 
tortenelmet ismerem, Szapolyai es a rendek inkabb a sajat hatalmukat probaltak 
megvedeni, es nem az orszagot. Ezek szerint ok "nemzetidegenul" gondolkodtak. 
De lehet, hogy ez sem segitett volna a tulero ellen, mint ahogy 1956-ban sem 
sikerult.

>>Deak Ferenc nevehez fuzodik az 1867-es kiegyezes, amely vegul is Ausztria
>>politikajahoz kototte az orszagot.
>
>Lepesevel a 'nemzet' politikai-gazdasagi mozgasteret, autonomiat nyert,
>ami a Bach-korszak diktaturajahoz kepest mindenkeppen nemzetbarat
>politikai lepes volt.

Ez igaz. Viszont ez a fuggosegi viszony megmaradt 1918-ig, bar igazad van, ez
nem Deak hibaja, hanem az ot koveto politikusoke.

>Szerintem Horthy politikaja nemzetbarat volt..

Szerintem nem.

Gabor
+ - Re: Bela Kun (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Alexander N. Bossy > wrote:
> 
>The Kraijina is on the eastern border of Croatia, and therefore isn't
>analogous to the Szekely island in Romania.  On the other hand, the Serbs
>had to conquer a corridor to connect the Serb-majority areas of western
>Bosnia/Kraijina to their eastern Bosnian stronghold

If they had to conquer a corridor to it, Kraina is not contiguous with
Serbia, right?  I wonder if you were so cavalier with such corridor
cutting if it was between Hungary and the Szekely areas of Transylvania.

Joe
+ - Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  says...
>
 (Zulfiqar Haider) wrote:
>
>>In article >, 
>>(Berra Hedkvist) wrote:
>
>>> In article >, 
>
>>> >Can you provide me with your national written 33, or if you have a
>>> >non-roman lanquage (like China, Japan, Arabic, ... maybe a picture (GIF,
>>> >TIFF, Anything...) of your national 33
>>> >Could you also mention in wich lanquage it is?
>>> >It would be much apprieciated!!
>>> >
>In Puerto Rico we speak Spanish, the number 33 is TREINTA Y TRES in
>Spanish.
>
>Rosa
>
>>I Urdu (the lanuage of PAKISTAN), it is pronounced "Taintees"
>
>
Au New-Hampshire, nous parlons Yankee.  On prononce le numero 33 comme 
"Thitty-Three".

- Curt
+ - Re: Cenzura mindenutt (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>In article >,
>   T. Kocsis > wrote:
>>Csak az erdekesseg kedveert: melyik ez a szam es ki enekli ?
>
>Sajnos nem tudom a cimet es enekeset. Radioban szoktam hallani, eroteljes
>hangu enekesno szenvedelyesen panaszol. Van benne egy sor: "...when you ---
>her" (a --- az elnyomas).

Csak nem az Alannis Morisette?

"...when you go down on her..."

Gabor
+ - Contact wanted in Baia Mare region (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Is there a someone in the Baia Mare region who would like to e-mail with 
me ??

Thanks in advance

Marco
+ - Romanian-Hungarian Reconciliation (was Re: Bela Kun) (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Jan 15, 1996 11:32:36 in article <Re: Bela Kun>, 
(Radu Cotet)' wrote: 
 
>In article >, 
 
>says... 
> 
>>At the risk of seeming completely, irresponsibly, optimistic, let me 
>>suggest that xenophobia can disappear.  The reconciliation between
Germany 
>>and France after WWII is the most important example.  I don't see any 
>>reason why a similar reconciliation can't take place between Romanian and

>>Hungary - though it will invariably take a few generations.  
>>  
>>Alexander 
> 
>I completely agree with you, but what do you think of positions like the
one  
>that follows: 
> 
> 
>>>> Budapest, Magyar Nemzet, 06 Dec. 1995, p. 8 
> 
>"Romanian-Hungarian Controversy - Is Rapprochement Possible ?" 
> 
>[...] 
> 
>According to many people, the Hungarian governments will act correctly if 

>they help to dismember the Trianon system. 
>In Romanian-Hungarian relations this means THE MODIFICATION OF BORDERS IN 
>TRANSYLVANIA. 
> 
>[...] 
>If there is any Romanian-Hungarian historic reconciliation, it can only 
>be envisaged along these lines. 
 
Hi Radu: 
 
Every society breeds at least some reactionaries.  Hungary isn't unusual in
doing so.  The question, however, is whether the views of the reactionaries
is or is not embraced by the population at large, and whether or not it is
government policy.  The mere existence of reactionaries isn't a logical
reason not to reconcile - if the Israelis and Arabs can see that, I'm
certain that Romanians and Hungarians can see it too. 
 
While many Hungarians do feel that the borders weren't drawn fairly (and
they have more than a few legitimate complaints) and some Hungarian
politicians do play the "Transylvania should be ours" card, the fact
remains that overwhelming majority of Hungarians accept that the present
border is there to stay.  (They are also smart enough not to want to launch
a war on a country with twice their population.)  Their concerns about the
rights of Hungarian minority can be satisfied within the present borders. 
Therefore, to a large extent, the onus is now on Romania and Romanians. 
Instead of focusing on the few Hungarian nuts, we have to show enough
concern for the rights of the Hungarian minority that the nuts become an
ever smaller proportion of Hungary's population.  And then, we will have
reconciliation. 
 
Alexander
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

I love you - mai tumse pyar karta hoon ( Hindi )
I love you - Mimi tuna pende wewe ( Swahili )
+ - Historical Maps (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Does anyone out there have or know where I can get  maps of the
German, Austrian, Ottoman and Russian empires in electronic format
(gif, bmp, jpg)? Web sites, ftp sites--anything will be appreciated.

Thanks!


+ - Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The preceding message was crossposted to all of 

Newsgroups: 
soc.culture.latin-america,
soc.culture.lebanon,
soc.culture.liberia,
soc.culture.maghreb,
soc.culture.magyar,
soc.culture.malagasy,
soc.culture.malaysia,
soc.culture.mexican,
soc.culture.mexican.american,
soc.culture.misc,
soc.culture.mongolian,
soc.culture.native,
soc.culture.nepal,
soc.culture.new-zealand,
soc.culture.nicaragua,
soc.culture.nigeria,
soc.culture.nordic,
soc.culture.pacific-island,
soc.culture.pakistan,
soc.culture.palestine,
soc.culture.peru,
soc.culture.polish,
soc.culture.portuguese,
soc.culture.puerto-rico,
soc.culture.punjab,
soc.culture.quebec,
soc.culture.rep-of-georgia,
soc.culture.romanian,
soc.culture.russian,
soc.culture.scottish,
soc.culture.sierra-leone,
soc.culture.singapore,
soc.culture.slovenia,
soc.culture.somalia,
soc.culture.south-africa,
soc.culture.

  Make sure you trim your headers before proceeding in this thread.

alex

In article >,
Vano Chachanidze  > wrote:
>In Georgian 33 is OTSDATSAMETI
+ - Population Statistics (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

"Alexander N. Bossy" > on 17 Jan 96 writes:


>                                             60% of the population
>on the territory transfered back to Hungary under the terms of the
>Vienna diktat was also ethnic Romanian. Consequently, it most certainly
>was not "far more based on ethnic self-determination". Alexander

Would you care to document your population statistics? Also, the term
"diktat" is out of place since the Romanian government agreed to, and
indeed was a signatory to the agreement returning the predominantly,
though not exclusively, Hungarian populated areas of Erdely to
Hungary.

CSABA K. ZOLTANI
+ - ABSEES Online (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In the past, I posted messages on this newsgroup about ABSEES Online, the
online database version of The American Bibliography of Slavic and East
European Studies. 

I believe that ABSEES and ABSEES Online are of interest to the readers of
this newsgroup because we index material on Eastern and East-Central
Europe and the former Soviet Union.  Our database contains about 26,000
citations for material published in North America from the late 1980s to
the present, and more records are added every month. 

I am sorry to announce that we can no longer offer free access to ABSEES
Online.  We were able to do so in the past because we were funded by Title
VIII from the U.S. Department of State.  This funding ended December 1995. 
We now must engage in cost-recovery to support our work, so ABSEES Online
will be available only on a subscription basis.  We remain an 
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+ - Re: Goncz hazudik (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>>>Ez egy buta kerdes: egy 1000 eves allamisaggal rendelkezo orszagnak
>>>szok lenni mar valami nemzetfogalma, rendszerint egy szerves fejlo-

>>[ha a kommunistaknak a proletar internacionalizmus fogalmat]
>>sikerult a "nemzetfogalom" fole helyezni (amint irtad), akkor szerintem
>>legalabbis gyengus volt a "nemzetfogalom".

>Ne felejtsuk el, hogy kinntrol tortent a dolog, nem a valasztasunk
>eredmenyek kepp lettunk szovjet alattvalok.

Jo.

Ha a kommonistaknak nehany ev alatt sikerult a "proletar internacionalizmus"
ideologiajaval helyettesiteni az 1050 ev alatt kifejlodott nemzetfogalmat,
akkor ott szerintem baki van.
A jelenlegi neo-kommonista kormany pedig "szabad" valasztas eredmenye. Tenyleg,
hol van nem-neo-kommonista kormany Csehorszagon kivul az egykori szocialista
tabor orszagaiban? Ormenyorszag?

>Akkor nem jo a parhuzam, mert a PRI mexikoi part volt, legfeljebb nem tel-

Na es? A hatalom, az hatalom, barkie is. Lehet vele "jol" banni, mint
ahogy a Spanyol kiraly, Janos Karoly (avagy Juan Carlos) tette, vagy lehet vele
visszaelni, mint a PRI.

>Ezen keretek kozott a 'nemzetellenes' politika ertelmezhetetlen.

Melyik szazadtol szamitod akkor a "nemzetfogalom" letezeset? Ha Hunyadi Janos
"nemzetbarat" lehetett, mert tultekintett a sajat kis erdekein, akkor Szapolyai
vagy a ligak szerintem "nemzetellenesen" viselkedtek, mivel a sajat kis onos
erdekeikre figyeltek elsosorban.

>>>Szerintem Horthy politikaja nemzetbarat volt..
>>Szerintem nem.
>Pedig igy van. Nagyon egyszeru dolga volt:  elveszett az orszag
>ketharmada,
>nagyon konnyu volt nemzeti celt kituzni. Visszaszerezni, amit lehet.

Velemenyem szerint epp ez volt a legnagyobb hiba. Ez biztos konfliktushoz
vezetett az osszes szomszeddal, ami csak valami oriasi szerencse kovetkezteben
hozhat pozitiv erdmenyt az orszag szamara.

>litikajat csinalta. A vegere sajnos a korulmenyek tamasztotta kovetelme-
>nyek tulnottek rajta, meghaladtak politikusi kepessegeit, es elvesztette
>na-
>pok alatt, amit 20 ev munkajaval visszaszerzett az orszag.

Szerintem meg inkabb szuksegszeru volt a bukasa, mint veletlen. Hogy a
korulmenyek olyanok lettek, mint voltak, annak O is az oka volt. A rossz
kulpolitazalas az O szakmai hibaja.

Vegul is, szerintem az olyan fogalmak, mint "nemzetbarat", vagy "nemzetellenes"
megtevesztoek, es vigyazni kell veluk. Valakire rasutni, hogy "nemzetidegen"
vagy "nemzetellenes" kb. ugyanolyan, mint valakit "fajuldozonek" vagy
"fajgyulonek" nevezni. Valakit megbelyegezni egy ilyen jelzovel nem
veszelytelen.

Bar meghatarozasod szerint I. Istvan "nemzetellenes" (idegen ideologia
meghonositasa idegen katonakkal) megis "nemzetbaratnak" tekintheto.

Ha egy politikus idiota, attol meg nem feltetlenul "nemzetellenes" vagy
"nemzetidegen". Altalaban inkabb "nemzetidegenek", mert a sajat es nem az
orszag hatalmat nezik. (Velemenyem szerint ez altalanos.)

En inkabb abban latom egy politikai ero "nemzetidegen"-seget, hogy mennyire
kapaszkodik a hatalomhoz. Ha szabad es tiszta valasztasok soran jutottak
hatalomra, es szabad es tiszta valasztasokkal le lehet oket
valtani, es le is mondanak a hatalomrol, akkor szerintem nem tekinthetok
"nemzetidegennek". Amennyiben nem adjak at a hatalmat, akkor mar lehet,
"nemzetidegennek"  tekinteni (pl. kommunistak)

Ez alapjan legalabbis megkerdojelezheto az MSZP hatalma, hiszen sok problemat
okozott az elod, az MSZMP.

Bar ebben a meghatarozasban lehetnek hibak, nem gondoltam vegig az osszes
variaciot.

Gabor
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tran (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Magnus Y Alvestad wrote:
> 
> Norwegian: Jeg elsker deg
> 
> -MagnusWhat has this to do with Kenyan affairs ????
+ - Re: 33 (thirtythree) in your lanquage. (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

The preceding message was crossposted to all of 
 
Newsgroups: 
soc.culture.latin-america,
soc.culture.lebanon,
soc.culture.liberia,
soc.culture.maghreb,
soc.culture.magyar,
soc.culture.malagasy,
soc.culture.malaysia,
soc.culture.mexican,
soc.culture.mexican.american,
soc.culture.misc,
soc.culture.mongolian,
soc.culture.native,
soc.culture.nepal,
soc.culture.new-zealand,
soc.culture.nicaragua,
soc.culture.nigeria,
soc.culture.nordic,
soc.culture.pacific-island,
soc.culture.pakistan,
soc.culture.palestine,
soc.culture.peru,
soc.culture.polish,
soc.culture.portuguese,
soc.culture.puerto-rico,
soc.culture.punjab,
soc.culture.quebec,
soc.culture.rep-of-georgia,
soc.culture.romanian,
soc.culture.russian,
soc.culture.scottish,
soc.culture.sierra-leone,
soc.culture.singapore,
soc.culture.slovenia,
soc.culture.somalia,
soc.culture.south-africa,
soc.culture.
 
  Make sure you trim your headers before proceeding in this thread.
 
alex
 

In article >,
Curt Springer > wrote:
>In article >,  says...
>>
 (Zulfiqar Haider) wrote:
>>
>>>In article >, 
>>>(Berra Hedkvist) wrote:
>>
>>>> In article >, 
>>
>>>> >Can you provide me with your national written 33, or if you have a
>>>> >non-roman lanquage (like China, Japan, Arabic, ... maybe a picture (GIF,
>>>> >TIFF, Anything...) of your national 33
>>>> >Could you also mention in wich lanquage it is?
>>>> >It would be much apprieciated!!
>>>> >
>>In Puerto Rico we speak Spanish, the number 33 is TREINTA Y TRES in
>>Spanish.
>>
>>Rosa
>>
>>>I Urdu (the lanuage of PAKISTAN), it is pronounced "Taintees"
>>
>>
>Au New-Hampshire, nous parlons Yankee.  On prononce le numero 33 comme 
>"Thitty-Three".
>
>- Curt
>
+ - Re: Forint mint valuta? (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,
    (VAX2.concordia.ca) wrote:
[...]
>mindenki annyi dollart vehet otthon amennyit csak akar. Van ennek az alli-
[...]
Ez mar regota igaz. A keleti pu. belteruleten szolgalatot teljesito arabokat 
ajanlom. Utcan nem biztonsagos. :)
(Szerintem Kanadaban konnyebb Dollarhoz jutni, nem?)



--------------------------------------
Peter Szaszvari
http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm
--------------------------------------
+ - Re: Bela Kun (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

On Jan 16, 1996 23:49:05 in article <Re: Bela Kun>,
 ()' wrote: 
 
 
>Alexander N. Bossy > wrote: 
>>  
>>The Kraijina is on the eastern border of Croatia, and therefore isn't 
>>analogous to the Szekely island in Romania.  On the other hand, the Serbs

>>had to conquer a corridor to connect the Serb-majority areas of western 
>>Bosnia/Kraijina to their eastern Bosnian stronghold 
> 
>If they had to conquer a corridor to it, Kraina is not contiguous with 
>Serbia, right?  I wonder if you were so cavalier with such corridor 
>cutting if it was between Hungary and the Szekely areas of Transylvania. 
 
The two situations aren't remotely similar.  The Serbs in the
Krajina/Western Bosnia could easily have been given the right to
self-determination without having any corridor.  They would be seperated
from Serbia proper, but would have more than enough territory to have a
viable province/state of their own, and it would not be surrounded by any
single state, since it would border both Croatia and rump Bosnia and reach
the Adriatic in a few places.  Also, a lot fewer people were displaced in
the Serb conquest of their corrdior than people were displaced in the Croat
conquest of the Krajina. 
 
But, this has gotten completely off topic, and I for one do not see the
point in getting dragged into the South Slav morass. 
 
Alexander
+ - Re: "I love you" in many languages Re: Please help tra (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

Syed Mehdi > wrote:
>In Social Culture Pakistan, one should try to improve the image of 
>Pakistan rather than talking rubbish.

Syed,
Is love really rubbish ?
Don't you see the positive aspect of this ?
By the way, how does one say "I love you in Urdu ?

Bye :)
+ - Re: Re- Transylvania borders (mind) VÁLASZ  Feladó: (cikkei)

In article >,  
says...
>
>On Jan 14, 1996 20:50:47 in article <Re: Re- Transylvania borders>,
 ()' wrote: 
>> BTW, your figures only go to show 
>>that the partition of Transylvania by Vienna II. was far more based on 
>>ethnic self-determination than the Trianon borders, though by 1940 the 
>>ethnic distribution got more complicated than it was in 1920, so 
>>achieving perfection was by then more difficult.  
> 
>Hi Joe: 
> 
>In order to make certain that our agreements don't get out of hand, let 
me
>disagree with this one ;-).  The majority of the population on the
>territory transfered to Romania under the terms of Trianon was ethnic
>Romanian.  60% of the population on the territory transfered back to
>Hungary under the terms of the Vienna diktat was also ethnic Romanian. 
>Consequently, it most certainly was not "far more based on ethnic
>self-determination". 
> 
>Alexander

Hi Alexander:

That's funny, your 60%. It suggests that the wise German and Italian 
arbitrators chose a territory enriched in Romanians to transfer back to 
Hungary :-(.

My numbers come from the following source:

M. Korom, in "Tanulmanyok Erdely tortenetebol," edited by Istvan Racz,
(Csokonai, Debrecen, 1988), p.167.
This reference cites the census of January 31, 1941.

The area transferred back to Hungary was 43,104 km2, i.e., roughly 42% of 
the territory transferred to Romania in the Trianon Treaty. 

According to the 1941 census, the ethnic distribution of the 
population--based on "mother tongue"--was the following:

Hungarians     1,380,000  (53.6%)
Romanians      1,029,000  (39.9%)
Jews              47,000  (1.8%)
Germans           35,000  (1.4%)
others            86,000  (3.3%)

Altogether:    2,577,000


That is, 53.6% Hungarians in the Vienna II. territories is to be compared 
to the 53.8% Romanians in the Trianon territories. Which one do you like 
more?

Gyorgy

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