1. |
Re: English-Hungarian Spice Dictionary (mind) |
31 sor |
(cikkei) |
2. |
News from the Olympic Games (mind) |
3 sor |
(cikkei) |
3. |
Jubilee (mind) |
55 sor |
(cikkei) |
4. |
Re: A question about pagan heritage (mind) |
237 sor |
(cikkei) |
5. |
Re: English-Hungarian Spice Dictionary (mind) |
17 sor |
(cikkei) |
6. |
Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
9 sor |
(cikkei) |
7. |
Re: Hungarian Surname: TAKACS (mind) |
25 sor |
(cikkei) |
8. |
Equilibrum?? (mind) |
17 sor |
(cikkei) |
9. |
Istvan Szabo films (mind) |
19 sor |
(cikkei) |
10. |
Hemp / Re: Equilibrum?? (mind) |
22 sor |
(cikkei) |
11. |
Re: Hemp (mind) |
11 sor |
(cikkei) |
12. |
Re: CUCUMBER SALAD (mind) |
10 sor |
(cikkei) |
13. |
Re: CUCUMBER SALAD (mind) |
6 sor |
(cikkei) |
14. |
Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
27 sor |
(cikkei) |
15. |
Re: Hungarians athletes cut . . . (mind) |
15 sor |
(cikkei) |
16. |
Re: New Thread / Same Old Topic (mind) |
49 sor |
(cikkei) |
17. |
Re: Kolbasz, etc. (mind) |
13 sor |
(cikkei) |
18. |
Re: Hungarians athletes cut . . . (mind) |
21 sor |
(cikkei) |
19. |
Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
23 sor |
(cikkei) |
20. |
Re: Hemp (mind) |
9 sor |
(cikkei) |
21. |
Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
29 sor |
(cikkei) |
22. |
Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
19 sor |
(cikkei) |
23. |
Re: The list is growing (mind) |
45 sor |
(cikkei) |
24. |
Re: Hungarians athletes cut . . . (mind) |
13 sor |
(cikkei) |
25. |
Re: The list is growing (mind) |
11 sor |
(cikkei) |
26. |
Re: A question about pagan heritage (mind) |
7 sor |
(cikkei) |
27. |
Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
41 sor |
(cikkei) |
28. |
Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
70 sor |
(cikkei) |
29. |
Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
46 sor |
(cikkei) |
30. |
Re: Istvan Szabo films (mind) |
54 sor |
(cikkei) |
31. |
Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
8 sor |
(cikkei) |
32. |
Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
21 sor |
(cikkei) |
33. |
Re: I beg your pardon. (mind) |
30 sor |
(cikkei) |
34. |
PROTEST NBC-TELEVSION (mind) |
1040 sor |
(cikkei) |
35. |
Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
130 sor |
(cikkei) |
36. |
Re: Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
10 sor |
(cikkei) |
37. |
Re: I call only nazis nazis. (mind) |
55 sor |
(cikkei) |
38. |
Re: CUCUMBER SALAD (mind) |
11 sor |
(cikkei) |
39. |
Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
11 sor |
(cikkei) |
40. |
Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
13 sor |
(cikkei) |
41. |
Re: Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
10 sor |
(cikkei) |
42. |
Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
6 sor |
(cikkei) |
43. |
Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
12 sor |
(cikkei) |
44. |
Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
16 sor |
(cikkei) |
45. |
Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
17 sor |
(cikkei) |
46. |
Re: Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
27 sor |
(cikkei) |
47. |
Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
86 sor |
(cikkei) |
48. |
Re: New Thread / Same Old Topic (mind) |
89 sor |
(cikkei) |
49. |
Re: Pacsni? (mind) |
9 sor |
(cikkei) |
|
+ - | Re: English-Hungarian Spice Dictionary (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
The term for rose hip jam used in SLovakia is Sipkovy lekvar (that's an
sh), and it refers only to wild roses. I can't explain the name, and the
same word sip (ship) can also mean arrow. Why should it be related to
the "literary" Magyar word, not the common one? (Czech is the same, and
I should guess it's basic Slavic).
Norma Rudinsky
On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, Paolo Agostini > wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jul 1996 17:20:07 GMT ANDREW ROZSA > wrote:
>
> >Besides 'szilva lekva'r,' there was another lekva'r, made from
> >rosehips, that was staple food in Transylvania. It also has large
> >quantities of ascorbic acid. Does anyone remember the name of rosehips
> >lekva'r?
>
> In literary Hungarian its name is "csipkebogyo-lekvar".
> The popular name for rose-hips is "hecsedli", and the jam made with it is
> better known under the popular name of "hecsedli lekvar".
> The vulgar name of this jam, i.e. "hecsepecs" (sometimes "hecsenpecs"
> with an extra n added), is slowly dwindling away.
> (FIY, both words hecsepecs and hecsedli are of German origin).
>
>
>
>
> Paolo Agostini >
>
|
+ - | News from the Olympic Games (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Fencing: Vilmos Szabo, Romania def. Bence Szabo, Hungary 15-10.
Barna Bozoki
|
+ - | Jubilee (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
HUNGARIANS!
AND YOU DEAR READERS!
With the endorsement of the Worl Federation of Hungarians
and The Office for Hungarians Beyond the Borders
A world wide call from
The Human Rights for Minorities in Central Europe Society,
Vancouver, B.C
We invite you to celebrate with us the
one thousand and one hundredth
anniversary of Hungarian presence in the Carpathian basin.
On August 20th. the light of our candles will commemorate
the historic event when the Magyars settled
in Hungary 1100 years ago.
We invite you to light a candle or in your window at 9:00 p.m.
according to your own time zone at the time, when the ceremonial
St. Stephen's day fireworks begin in Budapest.
Let this light shine forth and proclaim we are
CELEBRATING !
While the candles burn down,
let us remember our history's
sorrows and joys, setbacks and glories.
Reflect on the heroic, yet often tragic history of the Magyars:
in 896 Magyars under command of Arpad
settled in the Carpathian Basin.
in 1000 King Stephen received the title of
Apostolic Majesty from the pope.
in 1241 Mongols invaded and destroyed Hungary.
in 1456 Janos Hunyadi repelled the Turks at Belgrade, church bells
around the world toll at noon to mark this victory.
in 1526 Hungarians defeated at Mohacs.
The 150 years long Turkish rules begins.
in 1686 liberation of Buda with
Habsburg help from Turkish occupation.
in 1848 revolution attempting to end the Habsburg rule.
in 1920 Trianon Peace Treaty:
Deprived two thirds of the nation's sovereign territory.
in 1956 revolution attempting end of Soviet occupation.
in 1989 Hungarian part of iron curtain was cracked and
thousands were allowed to travel to the West and gain freedom
Eventually resulting the fall of the Berlin Wall.
In the event of this jubilee we ask you to
express your sympathy and recognition
Reminisce and Celebrate with us! Light up a candle of your own!
The Human Rights for Minorities in Central-Europe Vancouver Society of
B.C., Canada.
On behalf of the society,
Tibor Benke, Secretary
.
|
+ - | Re: A question about pagan heritage (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
***W A R N I N G***
The material below is in what some deem an objectonable style. If you might
be inconvenienced, delete this message now!
********************************************************************
At 10:57 a.m. 7/19/96 Peter I Hidas wrote, quoting me:
>> The naivite with which the majority of
>>Hungarians adopted the ideas of Christendom lead to the relatively >>rapid
>>demise of the Arpad dynasty, as the ruling families that knew >>the game for
>>what it was, divided and weakened them.
>The Arpads lasted for more than 400 years.
I guess I stand corrected, though whether 400 years is long or short for a
dynasty is a relative question. I thought, having a foreign dynasty was
always a national issue and continues to be, in a manner of speaking. On
the other hand, from the point of view of Carpathia seen as a land with a
Canadian type "vertical mosaic" it is a matter of indifference.
>They forced the Hungarians to
>adopt Christianity. The family died out. How do you relate this >problem to
>Christianity?
What comes around, goes around? What is Christianity? I was dwelling on
the irony that the side which pruportedly venerates St. Steven the most
now, ( The Christian Nationalist Folk) is in the same socio-political
position as the Pagans were. The shoe is on the other foot, so to speak.
Except that:
Kopany and his Party lost, but they professed, the law of conquest, so they
lost by their own rules.
St. Steven, however, won by "The Grace of God"-- whatever that means.
It should mean something to both Christians and Non-Christians.
(Hint: If you can get hold of a fairly computer literate grad student,
maybe she/he can analyze the frequency and meaning of the metaphors
relating to metallurgy in the Bible as a whole, it would make a great
thesis, would write it myself if I could - yeah: "Syncretism and
Metallurgical Metaphors and Messianic Concepts, 500 b.c.e. to 500 a.d. in
Mesopotamian, Hebrew, Greek and Latin Sacred Literature.)
What both sides, (i.e. the liberal-bolsi and nep-nemzeti) agree on is the
legitimacy of force. If one speculates on the interesting variety of
positions that can be worked out within Christian Discourse on the
legitimacy of force and the nature of evil, and relates this to the
ideological requirements of Mesopotamian and later empires, and meditates
on the book of Ecclasiastes, one comes to the conclusion that the Preacher
was right, "there is nothing new under tha Sun".
>
> > The Hungarians and whoever their ancestors might have been,
>>seem to have the bad luck of always adopting a new way of life >>shortly
>>after it begins its decline. Thus horse and cattle >>pastoralism was in its
>>heyday in 500 b.c. in the glory days of the >>Scythians, but the Hungarians
>>probably adopted it sometime in A.D.;
>
>The Hungarian tribes of the Conquests did not share the fate of >earlier
>barbarians because they were not nomadic but semi-nomadic >people familiar
>with both animal husbandry and agriculture.
>This knowledge guaranteed their economic survival even after they >could no
>longer rob their neighbours. Christianity took care of the >rest.
As it syncretized robbery. I admit this is symplistic. But an American
folk singer opined that, "some people rob you with a fountain pen". I
don't think he was far wrong.
To put it another way, The ten commandments sanction theft, but do not
elaborate on the definition of property - that is done in the Books of
Leviticus, Numbres, and Deuteronomy -- not perfectly consistently since
segments reflect conditions at different times. Property is a taken for
granted concept, and nobody worries about its definition until they
encounter a group whose concept differs somewhat. Nomadic barbarians
simply believed that beating someone in battle, entitles you to their
property. Christians believe (those who do not preach radical
non-resistance or at least, nonviolence) that you must first prove the
victim's moral inferiority. In proving the moral inferiority of the victim
it helps if you can make up the criteria. According to the Bible, Jesus
said (I paraphrase): If someone takes your coat, give them your shirt also.
Interesting how discourses change through time, eh? Some criteria, eh?
The secular bourgeoise, however, believe that it is alright to steal
property if the victims are primitive or illiterate, or don't believe in
"free enterprise".
Uncle Karl was one of the first to point out with fairly solid evidence ,
gleaned from Morgan and others, that property concepts can vary and he
caused somewhat of a scandal. Now, his observation, having been confirmed
by economic anthropologists, is thought trivial,and overshadowed by Uncle
Karl's own concept of property which IMHO was overly rigid as well. This
is attributable to the inherent dualism of 'civilized' thinking and he, as
someone (I don't remember who) said,"was the last of the Classical
Economists".
It turns out that property is as "natural" as language and just as there
are a Babel of languages, there is a Babel of property right *systems*.
Uncle Karl thought they vary historically with something called "the mode
of production", whatever that is. He also thought that the variations form
a single linear sequence. Infact, they vary with "the mode of production"
-- whatever that is, and other things as well. Though Uncle Karl's
understanding of the proccess of history was somewhat more sophisticated
then Eva Balogh's, he is still a DWM, with the expected level of
ethnocentrism.
Each *property rights system* finds different answers to the question, "who
desrves what on what basis?" Depending on the answer, each system has
consequences and is more or less stable. It appears that Capitalism is
inherently unstable, but 'actually existing socialism' proved to be even
more unstable. I suspect whatever the system is, stability is a function
of the percieved ratio of winners to loosers, and the actual tolerability
of being a looser. I submit that the developed West has exhibited its
recent considerable stability by making most people feel like winners and
moderating the consequences of loosing through welfare measures. In
general, I forsee a period of high instability as these conditions are no
longer met. (n.b. I am not advocating instability, merely predicting it.)
For Hungary the question is, given that, what next? Or do they even have a
choice?
In any case, the "mode of production" is being transformed again, and we
are wittnessing the to be expected social uphevals. The problem resides in
the fact that our ethical systems are incompatible with the results of our
production and distribution systems which are both incompatible with the
known requirements of the biosphere for continued functioning. What is
more, in comparison to the ethical system of Christianity, ours is
tremendously more fragmented. Thus it is becoming hard to decide whether
Madonna's antics really entitle her to the wealth and power she wields
while millions in the world are starving, or not. On the other hand, it is
well said, "judge not, lest you be judged".
> >Christian feudalism
>
>What is that? St. Stephen established a centrally controlled state. There
>was never Western-type feudal state in existance in Hungary.
>
Here again, I must concede to your greater knowledge. However, I would ask
you to detail in what manner St. Steven's setup differred from
a"Western-type feudal state" ? As well, I would like to know why these
differences were of more import then any possible similarities. Also, I
would be interested as to the causes of any differences you might note.
Then you quote Eva Balogh who wrote:
> Prince Geza and his son St. Stephen were men of vision; men who
>>>realized that the only road for survival was--to use a current
>>>phrase--"European integration."
And you said:
>
>I could not agree with you more. With the decline of Rome the idea of
>European unity did not emerge until the rise of Napoleon and later of
>Hitler. Hungary became interested in joining the EC after disasterous
>memberships in Nazi and Soviet empires.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Third time lucky?
Shell games have three shells too.
You quote a dialog between Eva Balogh and me:
>
TB>>>>Although in this case I don't know what was so mysterious. A
TB>>>rego"s (bard) or a ta'ltos (shaman) had certain traditional
TB>>>knowledge that I, for one,would like to know more about -- it
TB>>>might help us see more clearly who we really are.
>>>
EB>>> Unfortunately, I don't remember the author's name but
EB>>>there was a well known historian (maybe late 19th century) who
EB>>>was expert on such things. In my first year of university in
EB>>>Budapest, I read several articles and books by him. So, if you
EB>>>want to know more about shamanism--there is
EB >>>plenty of information.
TB>>If you do recall that author sometime, please tell me. Though I
TB>>know a little bit about shamanism as such, what I am interested TB>>in
is the Hungarian version circa 900 after it had absorbed the TB>>historical
experience of the previous couple centuries; and also TB>>what little must
remain of it among more remote Magyar TB>>populations.
EB>>> And of course, if as a personal hobby you want to be
EB>>>a shaman, that's fine with me, but somehow I don't think that EB>>the
shamans' knowledge would be terribly useful to us, at least EB>>>not in
practical terms, at the moment.
TB>>I think you would be suprised. But I do not mean we can take the
TB>>formulas and their explanations wholecloth and literally, instead
TB>>we should try and interpret them for our own situation, TB>>integrating
what has been learned since. Shamans were the first TB>>artists and
intellectuals. Before writing was invented, they TB>>were the memory and
conscience of their social group.
TB>>We have much to learn from them about the world, about our past,
TB>>and ourselves. (See Mircea Elidae and Joseph Campbell).
PH>We know very little about the shamans of the Magyars. The PH>Hungarians
were not literate in those days.
According to some. Others maintain they had some form of writing, but
we'll never know 'cause Christians of those days not only poured lead in
people's ears but burned 'demonic' literature as well.
PH>>A few lines about them in foreign sources or in books written
PH>hundreds of years later makes it difficult to draw sweaping
PH>conclusions. The Christian state persecuted them and they survived PH>as
the bards of the villages.
PH>Generalizations should be based on the careful use of our PH>knowledge
of the past. What can one learn from the comparison of PH>the samans,
anti-Christ,Rakosi and King Matyas?
>
With respect to generalizations, some think that they can be asserted and
tested all the same, whether they are based on data or not (look in on the
Popper List: POPPER >. It depends on whether you
prefer the inductive or the deductive method. I think we need both.
As for the rest, not Anti Christ. I was saying that Matyas Cumanius is to
Matyas Rakosi as Christ is to Anti Christ. (Hint: One of my intellectual
heroes is Claude Levi-Strauss.)
As for what have we to learn from shamans, well what can we learn from the
Book of Daniel, for instance? I tell you, I think a great deal more than
any book Hayek or Freedmann wrote.
The point is, we'll never know, and that is the hardest lesson of all.
Respectfully,
Tibor Benke
p.s. I apologize for the obscurity of the above. Next time let's talk
about traditional Hungarian children's games.
|
+ - | Re: English-Hungarian Spice Dictionary (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
George Szaszvari wrote:
>In article >,
>says...
>>Tibor Benke asks about how paprika arrived in Hungary.
>
>A book I have *Hungarian Paprika Through the Ages* by Zoltan Halasz
>(published by Corvina Press 1963) states that paprika was brought
>to Europe by Vasco da Gama and Columbus from the New World. By the
>beginning of the 16th century it was establishing itself in Central
>Europe (via the Iberian peninsula.) This is a fabulous little book
>with lots of historical, scientific and culinary notes as well as
>many an amusing anecdotal story.
>
I'll try to find that. Thank you for your reply.
|
+ - | Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
> According to the writer all this is due to the lack of regulation.
There IS regulation. Generally, in the zone for private houses, in Pest
area of the city, 25% of the site can be covered by the building. In the
Buda area this ratio is even less (I don't know exactly, maybe 20%).
However, up to the latest modification of the law, if a house was built
overriding the local regulation, the owner had to pay a relatively small
penalty and the house remained. Now (from the last year), the local
administration is allowed to order pulling down the building, on the
cost of the owner. Regards/lms
|
+ - | Re: Hungarian Surname: TAKACS (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 2:37 a.m. Auphanim asked:
>Can anyone tell me the etymology of my surname, and what exactly it
>"translates" to in the Hungarian language??????
>
>There have been many family intrepretations, and I'd appreciate an
>authentic origin. Can anyone point in the right direction for surname
>research?????
>
>Note: I am not looking for genealogy, but instead, the origin of the word.
According to the famous, not long ago discussed Orszagh dictionary (two
volume fourth edition Akademiai Konyvkiado 1974), the word means Weaver or
Webster. According to the Magyar Nyelv Tortenelmi Etimilogiai Szotara
(Historical Etymological Dictionary of the Hungarian Language. Akademiai
Konyvkiado, 1976) the word is a borrowing from slavic but which immediate
language is not certain. There is also a note that the word has been
mistakenly attributed to turkik roots but that based on semantic
considerations this is not likely. Due to the recent allegations against
this later work and the politicisation of the scientific discourse around
the history of the hungarian language, I would suspect that the last
statement can be taken with a grain of salt.
Tibor Benke
|
+ - | Equilibrum?? (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
> The system has a tendency to get into an equilibrium.
Theoratically yes. In practice, no. First, the stationary state of a system
can be even an oscillating state. If many such oscillating subsystems exist
in a large system (with different periods of oscillation), sometimes more of
them will be in a not so good state. This is called global recession. Speed
of money (moving from one company to the other) is finite, moreover: slow.
Other point of view. If a business is going extremely well, people believes
that more businessmen will start the same business, up to the moment until
this specific business will give the average income*. However, in pactice,
some extremely good businesses are protected by unfair methods, e.g. mafia.
By the way -- hashish (marijuana, etc) is legal or illegal in the States?
elemes
* = more precisely, the income multiplied by risks
|
+ - | Istvan Szabo films (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Dear fellow-listmembers,
Having seen the Wajda "Trilogy" (Pokolenie, Kanal, Popiol i diamanty), my
film/history class is now proceeding to three films directed by Istvan
Szabo. We're using "Love Film," "25 Firemens' Street" and "Mephisto".
(Yeah, I know, that last one is kinda cheating, but...).
Have any of you seen any or all of these films? What do you think of them,
of the director, of any of his other films? Are these "typical" of his
work? And do you think looking at cinema from there during the period of
"real existing socialism" can be useful from the point of view of history
(not film history or cinema studies, but history)?
Any opinions would be gratefully welcomed,
Sincerely,
Hugh Agnew
|
+ - | Hemp / Re: Equilibrum?? (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Mon, 22 Jul 1996, Laszlo Meszaros wrote:
> By the way -- hashish (marijuana, etc) is legal or illegal in the States?
As one example of far-from-equilibrium hysteria ;-(, it's so illegal that
they even banned growing hemp (kender)...
- --
Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
iQBVAwUBMfN+4MQ/4s87M5ohAQHenAH+PLvM/u9UC8KptFo2op28GM6AJRPN0g1F
Gh7vAw5PvcR2pUmgVStMeT8nRvZkqbVtstyFIdnRA+XpFf1Vn9qaCQ==
=4awe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
+ - | Re: Hemp (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
> they even banned growing hemp (kender).
Only one kind of hemp contains significant amount of THC, the Indian hemp.
Up to the late sixties (when an anti-drug convention was signed in the UNO),
drug-dependency was a peripherical phenomenon in the G7. Nowadays, as if the
mafia would control the anti-drug war...
It seems that America did not learn from the twenties (years of prohibition).
Politicians do not allow facts to disturb their minds.
/elemes
|
+ - | Re: CUCUMBER SALAD (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Here is another example of LANGs measurement errors. If you place a 1/4
cup of vinegar you will be a sour puss!
First of all one should slice the cucumbers and salt them and let them
stand for about half an hour. Then, one should squeeze the cucumbers
gently to get rid of most of the fluid. Then place the mixture of
vinegar, water and sugar. The mixture should taste just slightly tart
with a slight hint of sweet.
It is the ratios that one has to watch in these mixtures and George got
it wrong!
Peter Soltesz
|
+ - | Re: CUCUMBER SALAD (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Another cucumber salas: get a few cloves of garlic, break or slice them up
to small slices and then mix them with a cup of sour cream. Then, pour this
mixture on the salad You made according to Peter Soltesz. For beginners, it
is recommended to use one clove of garlic only.
Comment: do not eat this salad on weekdays, or, You'll be fired soon. :)))
|
+ - | Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 01:36 PM 7/22/96 +0200, Laszlo Meszaros wrote:
>> According to the writer all this is due to the lack of regulation.
>There IS regulation. Generally, in the zone for private houses, in Pest
>area of the city, 25% of the site can be covered by the building. In the
>Buda area this ratio is even less (I don't know exactly, maybe 20%).
>However, up to the latest modification of the law, if a house was built
>overriding the local regulation, the owner had to pay a relatively small
>penalty and the house remained. Now (from the last year), the local
>administration is allowed to order pulling down the building, on the
>cost of the owner. Regards/lms
>
I assume that Laci is right--there are regulations concerning size
of lots and the size of buildings. Yet, according to Gabor Farkas, the
editorial of Nepszabadsag claims that there is no such regulation! That
particular case--and they are thousands of them in Hungarian papers--tells
you a lot about the state of journalism in Hungary. They don't do their
homework and the information they give is often wrong.
But there is another interesting piece of information in Laci's
article: there are rules and regulations but nobody pays the slightest
attention to them. By the way, a number of questions concerning building
houses come to mind: (1) don't the owners of the new dwelling have to show
plans before they get a building permit? (2) are there no building
inspectors whose approval is necessary for occupancy?
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: Hungarians athletes cut . . . (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 02:39 PM 7/20/96 GMT, Steve Scheer wrote:
>Since writing the preceding post a little earlier
>this morning, I have received several pieces of e-mail
>from American friends who have also been dismayed by
>the omission of the Hungarian athletes during the Parade
>of Nations part of the ceremony.
I cannot tell you how livid I was when after that stupid,
meaningless interview with a member of the "Dream Team" (every time I hear
the name I get angry, by the way) Iceland was marching along and the
Hungarian team was cut. Unspeakable! Especially when Hungary has been in
these games for a long time and Hungarian athletes do very well.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: New Thread / Same Old Topic (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 01:15 PM 7/21/96 -0400, Zoli Fekete wrote in connection with low salaries
for struggling academics in this country and in Hungary:
> This is not about exchange rate or conversion. This is about relative
>living standards, opportunities and prospects.
> I've been living on ca. $1K/mo for a couple of years now, and I can tell
>you it's a lot easier than many could afford back home.
I published that piece about my experiences between 1957 and, let's
say, 1965 because Joe Szalai had published something to the effect that I
have no idea what hardship means because I was a university student in
Hungary and, behold, a few years later, I was dean at one of the residential
colleges at Yale University. Well, there were a few, pretty hard years in
between. Sure, I wasn't dying of hunger, and, sure, if one compared my
"living standards, opportunities and prospects" with someone in Hungary my
situation was easier. Financially, that is. But not psychologically. For all
of us the first five or so years were pretty miserable, and they cannot be
compared to the situation of those Hungarian graduate students who are
currently studying in this country. These people are here to study. If they
manage to save a few hundred dollars they can hop on a jumbo jet and in
seven, eight hours they are back "home." We were here without the slightest
hope of ever seeing our families again. This was a very heavy burden. The
language difficulties and the subsequent drop in status were also very hard
on one's psyche. In any case, let's not underestimate the difficulties
immigrants, especially those without language skills, experience at the
beginning of their lives in a new country.
> But, incidentally, there is one aspect where exchange rates too should be
>taken into account, although you didn't. Some time ago you mentioned that
>based on your acquintances' experience you considered expensive foreign
>vacations taken at least once a year usual for Hungarian residents (which
>you took as proof that they don't live all that bad). Had you calculated
>how such expense (at least over $1K, I'd guess) would come out from the
>median income (worth few hundred dollars gross per month), you could've
>judged how typical that picture was - but you didn't let such minor
>details disturb your belief in being precisely aware of the situation
>;-<...
I am still maintaining that the official statistics don't tell the
whole truth, due to the existence of the black/grey sector. A young relative
of mine, whose mother is a doctor (makes little money) and and his father
disabled (he had a stroke and makes even less money) is going to (1) the
Balaton; (2) the Matra; (3) Greece, this summer. He himself is a college
student. Perhaps the priorities are different in Hungary, but in this
country a college student works his butt off during the summer in order to
help his parents with tuition, room, and board during the following academic
year.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: Kolbasz, etc. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 06:40 PM 7/20/96 -0400, Aniko wrote:
>I was astounded to re discover several times while dining in various parts
>of Hungary, during which time weddings were ongoing simultaneously, that
>wedding presents have not really become as popular as are here in NA. Money
>is still the #1.
I just heard about a wedding in one of the villages near Pecs
(mostly svab village) where there were 500 people invited!
By the way, I'm glad that Aniko is back, safe and sound.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: Hungarians athletes cut . . . (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 02:47 AM 7/21/96 -0700, Tibor Benke wrote:
>At 5:53 p.m. 7/20/96 Rozsa Bandi (Andrew Rozsa wrote to Pista:
>
>>P.S. Pista: Isn't it amazing that after all these years in this
>>country we would still much rather root for Hungary than, say, in
>>direct competition, the U.S.? Or is my assumption false and I am an
>>exception?
>If I see an event with both Canadians and
>Hungarians, I root for the Hungarians. If I see an event with an American,
>I root for the Italians (At least their flag is red white and green too ;-)
>).
This just proves the power of modern nationalism and even the least
nationalistic of us (and I consider myself one of those) get all emotional
about a Hungarian victory. I remember rather vividly watching a water polo
game between Hungary and the United States with a very good friend: she was,
of course, rooting for the U.S. and, of course, I for Hungary. At the end we
almost had a quarrel when she claimed that the Hungarians played dirty.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Doc Farkas said:
>
> >Mr Farrakhan organized the Million Men March recently, and
> >nobody in his right mind could call the speaker of this
> >monstre event to be a nazi.
>
> Why not? Is it the size?
>
> >I am not a big fan of Mr Farrakhan, actually I consider him
> >an agressive Muslim nationalist, while I'm a peace loving
> >Christian. So I do not have any particular reason to like him.
> >But I believe, nazi is not a good code word for him.
>
> Nazi is not a code word. It is what he is, very directly. Code words are
> used when the real meaning is covered up.
Hey, it is then a Nice New World in the United States
of America!! According to Doc Farkas, the biggest human
rights event in this decade, the Million Man March was
organized by nazis... Let's understand this statement:
Was it then the 'Million Nazis March' ??
Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: Hemp (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 04:26 PM 7/22/96 +0200, Laszlo Meszaros wrote:
>It seems that America did not learn from the twenties (years of prohibition).
>Politicians do not allow facts to disturb their minds.
Prohibition was better than no booze at all! Same for the illegality of
'soft' drugs.
Joe Szalai
|
+ - | Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Soltesz Peter wrote this:
>
> The problem in Hungary is that the dole (Welfare state) was
> so ingrained into the populace that they cannot survive without
> lots of help.
That's a good point. You can not demand starvation
from the nation in the name of 'progression',
whatever you mean under the name progression.
But I do not get this:
> The problem is how to curtail the appetite of the Hungarian
> public (in one generation?) tfor the welfare state.
I have an idea. You should ban szekelykaposzta,
baratfule, makosbeigli, Sunday Dinner etc. in Hungary.
>From this day on these kinds of food are allowed to eat,
exclusively, for the respectable authors of the Hungary
List Corp.
Then the Hungarian public (in one generation?) will starve
soon to death and your problems about the stupid, welfare-
state hungry Hungerians would be over for once and all.
> As a result, I understand, that workers now get off officially
> Friday noon. (It used to happen before but unoffciially).
> Pretty soon, noone will have to go to work, just get paid!
Oh, these lazy, good-for-nothing Barbarian people...
Why should we spoil any of our precious time on them?!!
Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
> (1) don't the owners of the new dwelling have to show plans
> before they get a building permit?
They have to, of course. Personally I am building a house near Budapest, and
I had to show plans. However, as I emphasized, if someone have built a house
without ANY permission, he had to pay a small penalty (sometimes not more
than cost of permission).
> (2) are there no building inspectors whose approval is necessary
> for occupancy?
There ARE building inspectors. Moreover, when building a house, at main
stages of building, I had to inform them, because they may want to check
whether the work is done according to the plans. But, penalty is (was)
low. Now, if I don't claim in time that I have finished, e.g. construction
of roof, and they want to examine the traverse, they can dismantle the
inner covers, on my cost.
However, a rich owner (not me :(((... ) can always bribe the inspector.
|
+ - | Re: The list is growing (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Sam, I appreciate your notes about the American social
movements. About the trade unionists and the revolutionists
you wrote:
> I think in the early 1930s the
> two movements were convergent for a time in the U.S.
In Hungary we had 'communist trade unions' after 1948. But
it was also the end of trade unions as we knew it before.
In the classic form, trade unions push for advances for
workers in a peaceful way. It may include strikes and
demonstrations, but never turmoils or revolution.
If we compare the two different kind of affections, just
think about Uncle Joe, who said in a rainy morning: 'Gosh,
this neighbor Jack of ours seems kind of conceited. I just
can not sympathize with him.' And said playful Little
Johnny with a big smile showing up his smoking gun: 'Don't
worry Dad, I just filled his ugly head with a couple of
funny little bullets.'
> You even had the
> phenomenon of religious radicals like Niebuhr openly voicing the
> expectation that the Marxist revolutionary might yet be the savior of
> American society.
I believe, he never knew what IS a Marxist revolution.
> Then FDR got elected and made the government we already
> had work for the little guy for a change
And he also created a big government. Was it the only way
to work for the little guy?
> By the time of the 1968 Democratic
> convention in Chicago, you had anti-war college students demonstrating
> outside the convention center, marching past Teamsters and construction
> workers -- the creme de la creme, as it were, of American trade unionism
> -- who would have liked nothing more than for the cops to disappear for
> doughnuts and coffee so they could strangle the little anti-American
> buggers without interference. America -- what a country!
Maybe the American history badly misses the experience of
the reigning violence. That could be the only reason some
people still can believe in it. I wish you never had this
experience. So you can show the way to us, Europeans,
challenged by our stupid 20th century history.
Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: Hungarians athletes cut . . . (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 07:58 AM 7/22/96 -0700, Eva Balogh wrote:
> I cannot tell you how livid I was when after that stupid,
>meaningless interview with a member of the "Dream Team" (every time I hear
>the name I get angry, by the way) Iceland was marching along and the
>Hungarian team was cut. Unspeakable! Especially when Hungary has been in
>these games for a long time and Hungarian athletes do very well.
In Canada, the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) showed the Hungarian
team. By the way, I think that Atlanta put on a great show and they should
be proud of their effort. Now, I know it was a spectacle but still...
Joe Szalai
|
+ - | Re: The list is growing (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Fekete Zoli wrote:
> I should point out that I've always used the short form (as
> is shown both in my signature and username fields) while he [me Sz.Z] seems
> to prefer the official long version.
Not me, but my mailer. :-(
Nevertheless, I have to note, that I have not seen
any confusion of our names. Maybe it's because of
your uninterchangably excellent use of English.
So don't worry, just keep your style. Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: A question about pagan heritage (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
St Stephen controlled the land of the Magyars. There was no feudal nexus in
Hungary. All his subjects were his subjects and not only the subjects of their
immediate superior lords. In western Europe there was feudal nexus between
the king and his barons, the barons and the knights etc. There was no such
feudal pyramid in Hungary during the reign of the Arpads.
Peter I. Hidas, Montreal
|
+ - | Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 11:27 AM 7/22/96 -0400, Zoltan Szekely wrote:
>Soltesz Peter wrote:
>>The problem is how to curtail the appetite of the Hungarian
>>public (in one generation?)for the welfare state.
>I have an idea. You should ban szekelykaposzta,
>baratfule, makosbeigli, Sunday Dinner etc. in Hungary.
>From this day on these kinds of food are allowed to eat,
>exclusively, for the respectable authors of the Hungary
>List Corp.
>
>Then the Hungarian public (in one generation?) will starve
>soon to death and your problems about the stupid, welfare-
>state hungry Hungerians would be over for once and all.
>>As a result, I understand, that workers now get off officially
>>Friday noon. (It used to happen before but unoffciially).
>>Pretty soon, noone will have to go to work, just get paid!
>Oh, these lazy, good-for-nothing Barbarian people...
>Why should we spoil any of our precious time on them?!!
Personally, I like Jonathan Swift's "Modest Proposal".
"I have been assured by a knowing American of my acquaintance that a young
healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing and
wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked or boiled; and I make no
doubt that it will equally serve in a fricasee or a ragout: I do therefore
humbly offer it to public consideration that . . . 100,000 [infants] may, at
a year old, be offered in sale to the persons of quality and fortune
throughout the kingdom; always advising the mother to let them suck
plentifully in the last month, so as to render them plump and fat for a good
table."
I'm sure that the plump little children would be good for po:rko:lt and
paprika's too. With or without sour cream! The real question is, "How do
we get a 100,000 Hungarian welfare mom's to have babies?"
Joe Szalai
|
+ - | Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Eva Balogh wrote:
> >Eva, you have a very strong opinion about the social
> >spending in Hungary
>
> That, however, doesn't make me or anybody else a rightwinger.
I keep up, that your economic views are very typical in the
classic right.
> As the
> matter of fact, the rightwingers write like Erzsebet Gidai and others who
> complain most bitterly against reducing the role of the state.
I already know, that you don't like Erzsebet Gidai bacause
she is a former member of the communist party.
> (1) the claim that I want
> to eliminate the welfare state. I don't want to eliminate the welfare state
> but I would restrict social benefits only to those who are in need.
That's very respectable. So you would appoint a governmental
investigation for any benefit application, wouldn't you?
> Especially now that the Hungarian
> government no longer can borrow immense ammounts from the west in order to
> finance this system, with its top-heavy bureauracy.
I agree with reasonable cuts of bureaucracy. But the
basic level of social rights must be maintained. How
about the economic growth, which was artificially stopped
in 94? Why did the liberals force the government to cut
and cut without implementing a healthy growth in the
economy?
> I have another problem with these social benefits: the corruption
> which it produces. They are fertile grounds for fraud.
Typical right-wing argument.
> The number of people
> receiving disability benefits are staggering.
Maybe the eploitation by our newborn 'social burgoise'
disabled them. Is it impossible?
> The second half of the sentence: (2) the welfare state "is not a
> luxuriery there, as you may think it is in some Western European countries."
> I'm afraid it is a luxury which even much richer western European countries
> can ill afford, never mind Hungary.
O.K. Eva, why don't you go home and try to live with a
salary of $200 a month? Maybe you read Gyorgy Bathori's
remark about Hungarian salaries. Why don't you try out
this unique experience of salary in Hungary yourself?
(Ah, forget it. You already starved enough in you
childhood...)
> Admittedly, it will take perhaps two decades, maybe longer, before
> we will have a different public attitude toward personal responsibility.
Personal responsibility? Are you talking about personal
responsibility? That's a grand surprise for me, Eva!
Really! Maybe our political views are not so hopelessly
far from each other as I thought before.
Some people in Hungary should bear the personal responsibility
for the demages made by faulty economic theories. How about
jailing Mr Bokros?
> In Hungary's case, it might mean the slow-down
> of foreign investment which, right now, is the only salvation of the economy.
Why is the Hungarian economy dying itself? In all the
ex-Soviet block coutries there were a considerable
growth in the economy is the last couple of years --
except Hungary. Who's interest is to block the healthy
growth of the Hungarian economy? Maybe some political
forces would like us to believe what they say about
'the only salvation of the Hungarian economy'.
Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Zoli you miss my point..
The basic problem in HUngary is that the Hungarians have not yet figured out
how to jump from communistic planned economies (and lives) to more of a
free market economics. That is, the people expect the benefits of
communism (and welfare) without the understanding of free market economics.
The problem is academic, in that, if one is starving....who the heck
cares about economics!!!.
But the fact is that no-one in Hungary wants to give up their "dole" and
would rather groan and moan about things. The govt must shrink if it
wants to make the change to free market economics. It is overtaxing the
people and thus there are NO attempts at creating jobs. Rather, the govt
burecracy is ingrained, inept, inefficient and corrupt. Thus, they SELL
the country and its industries to pay for their mistakes (some get rich)
and nothing gets to the people. The insane taxt rates, the constant
hiding and cheating on both sides will nbever let the country exit from
its quagmire.
Did you know that they have among many others: subsidies for children,
fro old folks, for veterans, for tansportatiojn, for lunch, for food, for
housing, etc. sometime it has got to come to a halt and pay only those
who are in need!!!!! (A warning to Americans as well).
Here is a proposal:
1- cut taxes to 25%
2- cut dole to the bone!
3- Use the moneys obtained by sale of industry, etc to create new
jobs or industry, training, etc.
4- ask the west to come in and re-organize the govt.
5- jail anyone that has conflict of interest in the govt.
6- pay a living wage to all --- if you work for the govt then get paud
commercial rates.
7- get rid of the non-communicating govt offices, dept, agencies, etc.
(did you know that they still do not have a vcommon tlephone system, data
system, documentation system.etc.... - each department has its own
nbudget for things and spend it REGARDLESS of what the other guy is doing
next door!!!! They have not yet learned to cooperate or work for the
COMMON GOOD! Rahter, what can I do to make my power base better, bigger
and how much money can I put in my pocket, or my company's pocket!
There is no real law in Hungary. It is unenforced, and others are so
insane as to put Washington to Shame!
Ah the wild east prevails!!!
|
+ - | Re: Istvan Szabo films (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
In article >,
says...
>
>Dear fellow-listmembers,
>
>Having seen the Wajda "Trilogy" (Pokolenie, Kanal, Popiol i diamanty), my
>film/history class is now proceeding to three films directed by Istvan
>Szabo. We're using "Love Film," "25 Firemens' Street" and "Mephisto".
>(Yeah, I know, that last one is kinda cheating, but...).
>
>Have any of you seen any or all of these films? What do you think of them,
>of the director, of any of his other films? Are these "typical" of his
>work? And do you think looking at cinema from there during the period of
>"real existing socialism" can be useful from the point of view of history
>(not film history or cinema studies, but history)?
>
>Any opinions would be gratefully welcomed,
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Hugh Agnew
I can only speak about "Mephisto" here. When I first saw
it shortly after its release I have interpreted it as
an allegory. In other words, it's not "really" about
Nazis, it's more about the impossibility of any sort
of meaningful "cooperation" between the state and the
artist. As James Joyce says in "The Portrait of the
Artist as a Young Man," "his [the artists's] destiny was
to be elusive of social or religious orders." The point
is that an artist cannot be beholden to any church or
government. Art, by defition, cannot sell its soul, so
to speak, and remain art, retain true integrity.
In "Mephisto" the actor fools himself into thinking
that his Nazi "patron" is disinterested . . . He thinks
he can do good by cooperating with this "patron." He
also thinks, rightly, that great art transcends the
"merely" political and that it will survive, which in a sense
is true, of course . . . nevertheless the character of
the actor in the movie is compromised. Eventually, he
realizes that what he is doing is sycophantish . . .
The punchline of the movie is great . . . The Nazi
patron laughs as the actor stands all by himself in
the middle of a kind of military staging arena, blinded
by the lights (not unlike spotlights) shining on him.
The final words of the movie, "thought" by the actor,
are fantastic. He asks himself, "What am I doing here?
I am only an actor!" (Think of the irony of the word
"theater" in this connection, too. It is also used as
a military term . . . )
Steven C. Scheer
|
+ - | Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Zoli...if you think that jailing mr. Bokroswould solve the problem then
go ahead! I think it clearly shows that you do not understand what he was
trying to accomplish >>> the necessary things <<< without which Hungary
will NEVER get ourtt of its quagmire, except of course by another
revolution!!!
Perhaps then, and only then, will the reds, pinkos, corrupt bastards get
thrown out, and then the county will have a chance of rebirth!
Peter Soltesz
|
+ - | Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
This news item from the Associated Press was in today's Kitchener Record.
----------
BUDAPEST
Communists boo Canadian troops
Hundreds of Communists greeted a NATO military exercise in Hungary with
boos, the Hungarian state news agency reported.
"Gentlemen, go home! Take your soldiers, your weapons, your aircraft, and
let us live in peace," Hungarian Socialist Workers' party leader Gyula
Thuermer said in Szolnok, 80 kilometres east of the capital Budapest, MTI
news agency reported.
More than 1,000 military personnel, including Canadians, were gathering in
the area for an exercise today. It will bring together troops from 16
countries under the aegis of the Partnership for Peace - preparation for
NATO's expansion into Eastern Europe.
----------
And I always believed this kind of behaviour was reserved for American
troops only.
Joe Szalai
|
+ - | Re: I beg your pardon. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
>Andy Kozma wrote:
>
>>Would you be so kind and tell me what is not too personal for you?I just
>>wonder after all the "dirty laundry" exposed by you and others what is so
>>personal about my question?
>>Please akse me the same questions and I will gladly awnser all of it
>>honestly without any neccesitiy to "snoop". A.K.
>
>Oh come on Mr. Kozma! Did not you start to throw that dirty laundry around
>few day ago? Do you want me to quote you?
>I don't care what you do with your own time, and I don't expect you to care
>about mine either. Mind your own business and care about political, historical
>or social topics conducted here. Whenever you start questioning me, about
>my own business, I can tell you to buzz off my private life! I hope I made
>my point clear!?
>
>NPA.
>
>I just wonder Mr.Nemenyi how come you tell me what I should write
about?1You don't have any right to tell anyone what he or even she sould do.
If you let your dirty laundry out of the bag,and advertise it on to
threads,i belive this was more personal then my question to you Mr.NPA.
Furhter your letters about certain people whom you accuse for giving you all
this pain,isn't that more personal than the question :what are you doing
with your time?
Honestly I don't give a dam,since this is also a social topic your own.
I will buzz off when the Us takes over Canda.Till then we have freedom of
speech,and even the nazi collaborators can live piecefully in this country.
I meant the so called war criminals,Mr,Nemenyi.
Good fishing.A.K.
|
+ - | PROTEST NBC-TELEVSION (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
One of the BEST ways to get the Hungarians competing at the
Olympics to be shown on TV is to call, write, e-mail, fax
NOW to NBC.
NBC is owned by General Electric (GE)
Their home page is www.ge.com
What follows is the complete NBC-TV stations listing:
PLEASE call your local station (it is more effective) and complain
about NBC sports coverage of the Hungarian activities.
Thanx.
Peter Soltesz
________________________________________________
NBC TELEVISION STATIONS
________________________________________________
WRC-TV...Washington, DC NBC(NONE) TCL(4) E 3/4
WRC Television, 4001 Nebraska Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20016 USA
W(W20) 288-5400 F(F20) 288-5502
URL: [1]http://www.nbc.com/nbc4dc/
>>>
KACB-TV...Abilene, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
KACB-TV, P. O. Box 178
Abilene, TX 79604 USA
>>>
KAII-TV...Honolulu, HI NBC(NONE) TVH(7) H 3/4
KAII-TV, 1116 Auahi Street
Honolulu, HI 96814 USA
URL: [2]http://www.khon.com/news/
>>>
KALB-TV...Alexandria, LA NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KALB-TV, P. O. Box 951
Alexandria, LA 71309 USA
>>>
KAMR-TV...Amarillo, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
KAMR-TV, 2000 North Polk
Amarillo, TX 79107 USA
W(W80) 638-3332 F(F80) 638-1294
>>>
KARE...Minneapolis, MN NBC(NONE) TVH(11) C 3/4
KARE Television, 8811 Olson Memorial Highway
Minneapolis, MN 55427 USA
>>>
KARK-TV...Little Rock, AR NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
KARK-TV, P. O. Box 748
Little Rock, AR 72203 USA
URL: [3]http://www.cei.net/kark/kark.html
>>>
KATN...Fairbanks, AK ABC(NBC) TVH(2) P 3/4
KATN Television, 516 2nd Avenue
Fairbanks, AK 99701 USA
W(W90) 745-2212 F(F90) 745-6822
>>>
KBJR-TV...Duluth, MN NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
KBJR-TV, 230 East Superior Street
Duluth, MN 55802 USA
>>>
KCBD-TV...Lubbock, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(11) C 3/4
KCBD-TV, 5600 Avenue A
Lubbock, TX 79404-4598 USA
>>>
KCEN-TV...Temple, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
KCEN-TV, P. O. Box 6103
Temple, TX 76503-6103 USA
>>>
KCFW-TV...Kalispell, MT NBC(NONE) TVH(9) M 3/4
KCFW-TV, 401 First Avenue
Kalispell, MT 59901 USA
>>>
KCNC-TV...Denver, CO NBC(NONE) TVH(4) M 3/4
KCNC-TV, Denver, CO USA
>>>
KCPM...Chico, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(24) P 3/4
KCPM Television, 180 West 4th Street
Chico, CA 95928 USA
W(W91) 689-3242 F(F91) 689-3103
>>>
KCRA-TV...Sacramento, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(3) P 3/4
KCRA-TV, 3 Television Circle
Sacramento, CA 95814-0794 USA
W(W91) 644-4730 F(F91) 632-5373
>>>
KCRL...Unknown, NV NBC(NONE) TVH(4) P 3/4
KCRL Television, Unknown, NV USA
>>>
KDLT...Sioux Falls, SD NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KDLT Television, 3600 South Westport Avenue
Sioux Falls, SD 57116 USA
URL: [4]http://www.on-ramp.com/kdlt.html
>>>
KECI-TV...Missoula, MT NBC(NONE) TVH(13) M 3/4
KECI-TV, P. O. Box 5268
Missoula, MT 59806 USA
>>>
KETK-TV...Tyler, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(56) C 3/4
KETK-TV, 4300 Richmond Road
Tyler, TX 75703 USA
>>>
KEVN-TV...Rapid City, SD NBC(NONE) TVH(7) C 3/4
KEVN-TV, P. O. Box 677
Rapid City, SD 57709 USA
>>>
KFDX-TV...Wichita Falls, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
KFDX-TV, P. O. Box 4000
Wichita Falls, TX 76308 USA
URL: [5]http://www.cyberstation.net/kfdx
>>>
KFYR-TV...Bismarck, ND NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KFYR-TV, 200 North 4th Street
Bismarck, ND 58501 USA
>>>
KGET...Bakersfield, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(17) P 3/4
KGET Television, 2831 Eye Street
Bakersfield, CA 93301 USA
W(W80) 532-7751 F(F80) 532-7199
>>>
KGNS-TV...Laredo, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(8) C 3/4
KGNS-TV, 120 West Del Mar Blvd
Laredo, TX 78045 USA
>>>
KGW...Bend, OR NBC(NONE) TVH(8) M 3/4
KGW Television, Box 149
Bend, OR 97709 USA
>>>
KHAS-TV...Hastings, NE NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KHAS-TV, 6503 North Osborne Drive
P. O. Box 578
Hastings, NE 68902 USA
>>>
KHAW-TV...Honolulu, HI NBC(NONE) TVH(11) H 3/4
KHAW-TV, 1116 Auahi Street
Honolulu, HI 96814 USA
URL: [6]http://www.khon.com/news/
>>>
KHON-TV...Honolulu, HI NBC(NONE) TVH(2) H 3/4
KHON-TV, 1116 Auahi Street
Honolulu, HI 96814 USA
W(W80) 853-1858 F(F80) 859-1908
URL: [7]http://www.khon.com/news/
>>>
KHQ-TV...Spokane, WA NBC(NONE) TVH(6) P 3/4
KHQ-TV, P. O. Box 8088
Spokane, WA 99203 USA
>>>
KIEM-TV...Eureka, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(3) P 3/4
KIEM-TV, 5650 South Broadway
Eureka, CA 95503 USA
W(W70) 744-3312 F(F70) 744-2145
>>>
KIFI-TV...Idaho Falls, ID NBC(NONE) TVH(8) M 3/4
KIFI-TV, 1915 North Yellowstone Highway
Idaho Falls, ID 83401 USA
W(W20) 852-5888 F(F20) 852-2193
>>>
KING-TV...Seattle, WA NBC(NONE) TVH(5) P 3/4
KING-TV, 333 Dexter Avenue, N.
Seattle, WA 98109 USA
URL: [8]http://www.halcyon.com/kingtv/welcome.html
>>>
KIVV-TV...Rapid City, SD NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KIVV-TV, P. O. Box 677
Rapid City, SD 57709 USA
>>>
KJAC-TV...Port Arthur, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
KJAC-TV, P. O. Box 3257
Port Arthur, TX 77463 USA
>>>
KJRH-TV...Tulsa, OK NBC(NONE) TVH(2) C 3/4
KJRH-TV, 3701 South Peoria
Tulsa, OK 74105 USA
>>>
KJUD...Juneau, AK ABC(NBC) TVH(8) P 3/4
KJUD Television, 1107 West 8th Street
Juneau, AK 99801 USA
W(W90) 758-6314 F(F90) 746-3304
>>>
KKTU...Casper, WY NBC(NONE) TVH(33) M 3/4
KKTU Television, P. O. Box 2720
Casper, WY 82602 USA
>>>
KMIR-TV...Palm Springs, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(36) P 3/4
KMIR-TV, 72920 Parkview Drive
Palm Springs, CA 92263 USA
W(W61) 956-8363 F(F61) 956-8117
>>>
KMOL-TV...San Antonio, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
KMOL-TV, P. O. Box 2641
San Antonio, TX 78299 USA
URL: [9]http://www.kmol.com
>>>
KMOT...Minot, ND NBC(NONE) TVH(10) C 3/4
KMOT Television, P. O. Box 1120
Minot, ND 58702 USA
>>>
KMTR...Springfield, OR NBC(NONE) TVH(16) M 3/4
KMTR Television, P. O. Box 7308
Springfield, OR 97401 USA
>>>
KNAZ-TV...Frlagstaff, AZ NBC(NONE) TVH(2) M 3/4
KNAZ-TV, P. O. Box 3360
Frlagstaff, AZ 86004 USA
>>>
KNBC-TV...Burbank, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(4) P 3/4
KNBC-TV, 3000 West Alemeda Avenue
Burbank, CA 91505 USA
W(W81) 884-0444 F(F81) 884-0337
URL: [10]http://www.knbc41a.com/
>>>
KNDO...Yakima, WA NBC(NONE) TVH(23) P 3/4
KNDO Television, P. O. Box 10028
Yakima, WA 98909 USA
>>>
KNDU...Yakima, WA NBC(NONE) TVH(25) P 3/4
KNDU Television, P. O. Box 10028
Yakima, WA 98909 USA
>>>
KNOP-TV...North Platte, NE NBC(NONE) TVH(2) C 3/4
KNOP-TV, Highway 83 North
North Platte, NE 69103 USA
>>>
KNSD...San Diego, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(39) P 3/4
KNSD Television, 8330 Engineer Road
San Diego, CA 92171-9739 USA
W(W61) 927-9393 F(F61) 927-9107
Email:
>>>
KOAA-TV...Pueblo, CO NBC(NONE) TVH(5) M 3/4
KOAA-TV, 2200 7th Avenue
Pueblo, CO 81003 USA
URL: [12]http://www.koaa.com/
>>>
KOB-TV...Albuquerque, NM NBC(NONE) TVH(4) M 3/4
KOB-TV, P. O. Box 1351
Albuquerque, NM 87103 USA
>>>
KOBF...Farmingham, NM NBC(NONE) TVH(12) M 3/4
KOBF Television, 825 West Broadway
Farmingham, NM 87401 USA
>>>
KOBI...Medford, OR NBC(NONE) TVH(5) M 3/4
KOBI Television, P. O. Box 5m
Medford, OR 97501 USA
>>>
KOBR-TV...Roswell, NM NBC(NONE) TVH(8) M 3/4
KOBR-TV, 124 East 4th Street
Roswell, NM 88201 USA
>>>
KOMU-TV...Columbia, MO NBC(NONE) TVH(8) C 3/4
KOMU-TV, Highway 63 South
Columbia, MO 65201 USA
URL: [13]http://www.missouri.edu/~komo/
>>>
KOTI...Medford, OR NBC(NONE) TVH(2) M 3/4
KOTI Television, P. O. Box 5m
Medford, OR 97501 USA
>>>
KPLC-TV...Lake Charles, LA NBC(NONE) TVH(7) C 3/4
KPLC-TV, P. O. Box 1490
Lake Charles, LA 70602 USA
URL: [14]http://www.maas.net/kplc
>>>
KPNX-TV...Phoenix, AZ NBC(NONE) TVH(12) M 3/4
KPNX-TV, P. O. Box 711
Phoenix, AZ 85001 USA
>>>
KPOM-TV...Ft. Smith, AR NBC(NONE) TVH(24) C 3/4
KPOM-TV, P. O. Box 4610
Ft. Smith, AR 72914 USA
>>>
KPRC-TV...Houston, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(2) C 3/4
KPRC-TV, P. O. Box 2222
Houston, TX 77252 USA
>>>
KQCD-TV...Dickinson, ND NBC(NONE) TVH(7) C 3/4
KQCD-TV, P. O. Box 1577
Dickinson, ND 58602 USA
>>>
KRBC-TV...Abilene, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(9) C 3/4
KRBC-TV, 4510 South 14th Street
Abilene, TX 79605 USA
W(W91) 569-2424 F(F91) 569-2826
>>>
KRIS-TV...Corpus Christi, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
KRIS-TV, P. O. Box 840
Corpus Christi, TX 78403 USA
>>>
KRON-TV...San Francisco, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(4) P 3/4
KRON-TV, 1001 Van Ness Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94109 USA
W(W41) 544-1444 F(F41) 556-1814
>>>
KSBW-TV...Salinas, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(8) P 3/4
KSBW-TV, 238 John Street
Salinas, CA 93901 USA
>>>
KSBY-TV...San Luis Obispo, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(6) P 3/4
KSBY-TV, 467 Hill Street
San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 USA
W(W80) 554-1666 F(F80) 554-1514
>>>
KSDK...St. Louis, MO NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KSDK Television, Television Plaza
1000 Market Street
St. Louis, MO 63101 USA
>>>
KSEE...Fresno, CA NBC(NONE) TVH(24) P 3/4
KSEE Television, 5035 East McKinley Avenue
Fresno, CA 93727 USA
W(W20) 945-4242 F(F20) 945-4249
Email:
>>>
KSHB...Kansas City, MO NBC(NONE) TVH(41) C 3/4
KSHB Television, 4720 Oak Street
Kansas City, MO 64112 USA
>>>
KSL-TV...Salt Lake, UT NBC(NONE) TVH(5) M 3/4
KSL-TV, 55 North West
Salt Lake, UT 84110-1160 USA
>>>
KSNC...Great Bend, KS NBC(NONE) TVH(2) C 3/4
KSNC Television, U.S. Highway 281
Great Bend, KS 67530 USA
>>>
KSNF...Joplin, MO NBC(NONE) TVH(16) C 3/4
KSNF Television, 1502 Cleveland Avenue
Joplin, MO 64801 USA
>>>
KSNG...Garden City, KS NBC(NONE) TVH(11) C 3/4
KSNG Television, 204 Fulton Terrace
Garden City, KS 67846 USA
>>>
KSNK...Oberlin, KS NBC(NONE) TVH(8) C 3/4
KSNK Television, P. O. Box 238
Oberlin, KS 67749 USA
>>>
KSNT...Topeka, KS NBC(NONE) TVH(27) C 3/4
KSNT Television, P. O. Box 2700
Topeka, KS 66601 USA
>>>
KSNW...Witchita, KS NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
KSNW Television, P. O. Box 333
Witchita, KS 67201 USA
URL: [16]http://www.southwind.net/ksnw/
>>>
KTAL-TV...Shreveport, LA NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
KTAL-TV, P. O. Box 7428
3150 North Market Street
Shreveport, LA 71137-7428 USA
>>>
KTGF...Butte, MT NBC(NONE) TVH(16) M 3/4
KTGF Television, 304 West Main Street
Butte, MT 59802 USA
>>>
KTIV...Sioux City, IA NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
KTIV Television, 3135 Floyd Blvd
Sioux City, IA 51105 USA
URL: [17]http://usuers.aol.com/ktiv4/tube.html
Email:
>>>
KTSM-TV...El Paso, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(9) C 3/4
KTSM-TV, 801 North Oregon Street
El Paso, TX 79902 USA
>>>
KTTC...Rochester, MN NBC(NONE) TVH(10) C 3/4
KTTC Television, 601 First Avenue, SW
Rochester, MN 55902 USA
URL: [19]http://www.kttc.com
>>>
KTUU-TV...Anchorage, AK NBC(NONE) TVH(2) P 3/4
KTUU-TV, 701 East Tudor Road #220
Anchorage, AK 99503 USA
W(W90) 725-7020 F(F90) 727-6588
Email:
>>>
KTVB...Boise, ID NBC(NONE) TVH(7) M 3/4
KTVB Television, 5407 Fairview Avenue
Boise, ID 83706 USA
W(W20) 837-5727 F(F20) 837-8176
URL: [21]http://www.primenet.com/~ktvb/
Email:
>>>
KTVE...Monroe, LA NBC(NONE) TVH(10) C 3/4
KTVE Television, 2909 Kilpatrick Blvd
Monroe, LA 71201 USA
>>>
KTVH...Helena, MT NBC(NONE) TVH(12) M 3/4
KTVH Television, P. O. Box 6125
Helena, MT 59604 USA
>>>
KTVM...Butte, MT NBC(NONE) TVH(6) M 3/4
KTVM Television, 304 West Main Street
Butte, MT 59802 USA
>>>
KTVZ...Bend, OR NBC(NONE) TVH(21) M 3/4
KTVZ Television, Box 149
Bend, OR 97709 USA
>>>
KTWO-TV...Casper, WY NBC(NONE) TVH(2) M 3/4
KTWO-TV, P. O. Box 2720
Casper, WY 82602 USA
>>>
KULR-TV...Billings, MT NBC(NONE) TVH(8) M 3/4
KULR-TV, P. O. Box 80801
Billings, MT 59108 USA
URL: [23]http://wtp.net.KULR8TV
>>>
KUMV-TV...Williston, ND NBC(NONE) TVH(8) C 3/4
KUMV-TV, P. O. Box 1287
Williston, ND 58802 USA
>>>
KUSA-TV...Denver, CO NBC(ABC) TVH(9) M 3/4
KUSA-TV, Denver, CO USA
URL: [24]http://www.aaco.com/9news/
>>>
KVBC...Las Vegas, NV NBC(NONE) TVH(3) P 3/4
KVBC Television, 1500 Foremaster Lane
Las Vegas, NV 89101 USA
URL: [25]http://www.kvbc.com/kvbc/
>>>
KVEO-TV...Brownsville, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(23) C 3/4
KVEO-TV, 394 North Expressway
Brownsville, TX 78521 USA
>>>
KVOA-TV...Tucson, AZ NBC(NONE) TVH(4) M 3/4
KVOA-TV, P. O. Box 5188
Tucson, AZ 85703 USA
URL: [26]http://www.kvoa.com/
>>>
KWAB-TV...Midland, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
KWAB-TV, P. O. Box 60150
Midland, TX 79711 USA
>>>
KWQC-TV...Davenport, IA NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
KWQC-TV, 805 Brady Street
Davenport, IA 52803 USA
>>>
KWWL...Waterloo, IA NBC(NONE) TVH(7) C 3/4
KWWL Television, 500 East 4th Street
Waterloo, IA 50703 USA
>>>
KXAN-TV...Austin, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(36) C 3/4
KXAN-TV, 908 West Martin Luther King Blvd
Austin, TX 78701 USA
W(W51) 247-6363 F(F51) 247-6152
Email:
>>>
KXAS-TV...Ft. Worth, TX NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
KXAS-TV, P. O. Box 1780
Ft. Worth, TX 76101 USA
URL: [28]http://www.kxas.com
URL: [29]http://www.pic.net/kxas/kxas-tv.html
>>>
KYEL-TV...Yuma, AZ NBC(NONE) TVH(13) M 3/4
KYEL-TV, Yuma, AZ USA
>>>
KYTV...Springfield, MO NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
KYTV Television, P. O. Box 3500
Springfield, MO 65808 USA
URL: [30]http://www.ky3.com
>>>
WAFF...Huntsville, AL NBC(NONE) TVH(48) E 3/4
WAFF Television, P.O.Box 2116
Huntsville, AL 35804 USA
URL: [31]http://www.traveller.com/waff/
>>>
WAGM-TV...Presque, ME FOX(NBC) TVH(8) E 3/4
WAGM-TV, 201 Parkhurst Road
Presque, ME 04769 USA
W(W20) 776-4446 F(F20) 776-4532
>>>
WAGT-TV...Augusta, GA NBC(NONE) TVH(26) E 3/4
WAGT-TV, P. O. Box 1526
Augusta, GA 30909 USA
>>>
WALA-TV...Mobile, AL NBC(NONE) TVH(10) E 3/4
WALA-TV, P. O. Box 1548
Mobile, AL 36633 USA
>>>
WALB-TV...Albany, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(10) E 3/4
WALB-TV, P. O. Box 3130
Albany, NY 31706-3130 USA
>>>
WAVE...St. Louisville, KY NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
WAVE Television, 725 South Floyd Street
St. Louisville, KY 40203 USA
>>>
WAVY-TV...Portsmouth, VA NBC(NONE) TVH(10) E 3/4
WAVY-TV, 300 Wavy Street
Portsmouth, VA 23704 USA
>>>
WBAL-TV...Baltimore, MD NBC(NONE) TVH(11) E 3/4
WBAL-TV, 3800 Hooper Avenue
Baltimore, MD 21211 USA
W(W41) 046-7300 F(F41) 023-5805
>>>
WBBH-TV...Tuckers Corner, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(20) E 3/4
WBBH-TV, 3719 Central Avenue
Tuckers Corner, FL 33901 USA
W(W81) 393-9202 F(F81) 393-6777
URL: [32]http://www.water.net/wbbh.htm
>>>
WBIR-TV...Knoxville, TN NBC(NONE) TVH(10) E 3/4
WBIR-TV, 1513 Hutchinson
Knoxville, TN 37917 USA
>>>
WBOC-TV...Salisbury, MD CBS(NBC) TVH(16) E 3/4
WBOC-TV, 1729 North Salisbury Blvd
Salisbury, MD 21801 USA
W(W41) 074-9111 F(F41) 074-9236
>>>
WBOY-TV...Clarksburg, WV NBC(NONE) TVH(12) E 3/4
WBOY-TV, P. O. Box 1590
Clarksburg, WV 26302 USA
>>>
WBRE-TV...Wilkes Barre, PA NBC(NONE) TVH(28) E 3/4
WBRE-TV, 62 South Franklin Street
Wilkes Barre, PA 18773 USA
>>>
WBZ-TV...Boston, MA NBC(NONE) TVH(4) E 3/4
WBZ-TV, 1170 Soldiers Field Road
Boston, MA 02134 USA
W(W61) 778-7700 F(F61) 778-7596
>>>
WCIV...Mt. Pleasant, SC NBC(NONE) TVH(4) E 3/4
WCIV Television, 888 Allbritton Blvd
Mt. Pleasant, SC 29464 USA
URL: [33]http://www.awod.com/gallery/wcivtv4/
>>>
WCMH...Columbus, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
WCMH Television, 3165 Olentangy River Road
Columbus, OH 43202 USA
>>>
WCSH-TV...Portland, ME NBC(NONE) TVH(6) E 3/4
WCSH-TV, One Congress Square
Portland, ME 04101 USA
W(W20) 782-8666 F(F20) 782-8661
>>>
WCYB-TV...Bristol, VA NBC(NONE) TVH(5) E 3/4
WCYB-TV, P. O. Box 2069
Bristol, VA 24203 USA
URL: [34]http://www.bjournal.com/wcyb.html
>>>
WDAM-TV...Hattiesburg, MS NBC(NONE) TVH(7) C 3/4
WDAM-TV, P. O. Box 16269
Hattiesburg, MS 39402 USA
>>>
WDIV...Detroit, MI NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
WDIV Television, 550 West Lafayette Blvd
Detroit, MI 48231 USA
URL: [35]http://www.wdiv.com
>>>
WDSU...New Orleans, LA NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
WDSU Television, 520 Royal Street
New Orleans, LA 70130 USA
>>>
WEAU-TV...Eau Claire, WI NBC(NONE) TVH(13) C 3/4
WEAU-TV, 1907 South Hastings Way
Eau Claire, WI 54701 USA
>>>
WECT...Wilmington, NC NBC(NONE) TVH(6) E 3/4
WECT Television, P. O. Box 4029
Wilmington, NC 28406 USA
>>>
WEEK-TV...East Peoria, IL NBC(NONE) TVH(25) C 3/4
WEEK-TV, 2907 Springfield Road
East Peoria, IL 61611 USA
URL: [36]http://www.week.com
>>>
WESH...Winter Park, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(2) E 3/4
WESH Television, 1021 North Wymore Road
Winter Park, FL 32789 USA
W(W40) 764-5222 F(F40) 753-9782
>>>
WETM-TV...Elmira, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(18) E 3/4
WETM-TV, 101 East Water Street
Elmira, NY 14901 USA
>>>
WEYI-TV...Clio, MI NBC(CBS) TVH(25) C 3/4
WEYI-TV, 2225 West Willard Road
Clio, MI 48420 USA
>>>
WFIE-TV...Evansville, IN NBC(NONE) TVH(14) C 3/4
WFIE-TV, P. O. Box 1414
Evansville, IN 47701 USA
URL: [37]http://www.nbc14.com
>>>
WFMJ-TV...Youngstown, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(21) C 3/4
WFMJ-TV, P. O. Box 6230
Youngstown, OH 44501 USA
URL: [38]http://www.zdepth.com/wfmj/
>>>
WGAL...Lancaster, PA NBC(NONE) TVH(8) E 3/4
WGAL Television, P. O. Box 7127
Lancaster, PA 17604 USA
>>>
WGBA-TV...Green Bay, WI NBC(NONE) TVH(26) C 3/4
WGBA-TV, P. O. Box 19099
Green Bay, WI 54307 USA
URL: [39]http://www.wgba.com
>>>
WGEM-TV...Quincy, IL NBC(NONE) TVH(10) C 3/4
WGEM-TV, P. O. Box 80
Quincy, IL 62301 USA
URL: [40]http://www.cencom.net/~wgem/
>>>
WGRZ-TV...Buffalo, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(2) E 3/4
WGRZ-TV, 259 Delaware Avenue
Buffalo, NY 14202 USA
>>>
WHAG-TV...Hagerstown, MD NBC(NONE) TVH(25) E 3/4
WHAG-TV, 13 East Washington Street
Hagerstown, MD 21740 USA
W(W30) 179-7440 F(F30) 173-3172
>>>
WHEC-TV...Rochester, NY NBC(CBS) TVH(10) E 3/4
WHEC-TV, 191 East Avenue
Rochester, NY 14601 USA
>>>
WHIZ-TV...Zanesville, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(18) C 3/4
WHIZ-TV, 629 Downward Road
Zanesville, OH 43701 USA
>>>
WHO-TV...Des Moines, IA NBC(NONE) TVH(13) C 3/4
WHO-TV, 1801 Grand Avenue
Des Moines, IA 50309 USA
>>>
WICD...Champaign, IL NBC(NONE) TVH(15) C 3/4
WICD Television, 250 South Country Drive
Champaign, IL 61821 USA
>>>
WICS...Springfield, IL NBC(NONE) TVH(20) C 3/4
WICS Television, P. O. Box 3920
Springfield, IL 62708 USA
>>>
WICU-TV...Erie, PA NBC(NONE) TVH(12) E 3/4
WICU-TV, 3514 State Street
Erie, PA 16508 USA
>>>
WICZ-TV...Vestal, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(40) E 3/4
WICZ-TV, P. O. Box 40
Vestal, NY 13851 USA
>>>
WILX-TV...Lansing, MI NBC(NONE) TVH(10) C 3/4
WILX-TV, P. O. Box 30380
Lansing, MI 48909 USA
>>>
WIS-TV...Mt. Pleasant, SC NBC(NONE) TVH(10) E 3/4
WIS-TV, 888 Allbritton Blvd
Mt. Pleasant, SC 29464 USA
>>>
WITN-TV...Charlotte, NC NBC(NONE) TVH(7) E 3/4
WITN-TV, 1001 Wood Ridge Center Drive
Charlotte, NC 28217 USA
>>>
WJAC-TV...Johnstown, PA NBC(NONE) TVH(6) E 3/4
WJAC-TV, 49 Old Hickory Lane
Johnstown, PA 15905 USA
URL: [41]http://www.citipage.com
>>>
WJAR...Cranston, RI WB(NBC) TVH(10) E 3/4
WJAR Television, 23 Kennedy Drive
Cranston, RI 02920 USA
>>>
WJFW-TV...Rhinelander, WI NBC(NONE) TVH(12) C 3/4
WJFW-TV, South Oneida Avenue
P. O. Box 858
Rhinelander, WI 54501 USA
>>>
WJHG-TV...Panama City, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(7) E 3/4
WJHG-TV, 8195 Front Beach Road
Panama City, FL 32407 USA
W(W90) 423-4212 F(F90) 423-3664
>>>
WKEF...Dayton, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(22) C 3/4
WKEF Television, 1731 Soldiers Home Road
Dayton, OH 45418 USA
>>>
WKJG-TV...Ft. Wayne, IN NBC(NONE) TVH(33) C 3/4
WKJG-TV, 2633 West State Blvd
Ft. Wayne, IN 46808 USA
>>>
WKTV...Utica, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(2) E 3/4
WKTV Television, P. O. Box 2
Utica, NY 13503 USA
>>>
WKYC-TV...Cleveland, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
WKYC-TV, 1403 East 6th Street
Cleveland, OH 44114 USA
>>>
WLBT...Jackson, MS NBC(NONE) TVH(3) C 3/4
WLBT Television, P. O. Box 1712
Jackson, MS 39215-1712 USA
URL: [42]http://WLBT.teclink.net
>>>
WLBZ-TV...Bangor, ME NBC(NONE) TVH(2) E 3/4
WLBZ-TV, 329 Mt. Hope Avenue
Bangor, ME 04401 USA
W(W20) 794-2482 F(F20) 794-5681
>>>
WLEX-TV...Lexington, KY NBC(NONE) TVH(18) C 3/4
WLEX-TV, P. O. Box 1457
Lexington, KY 40591 USA
URL: [43]http://www.mis.net/wlex/wlexmain.html
>>>
WLIO...Lima, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(35) C 3/4
WLIO Television, Lima, OH 45802-1689 USA
>>>
WLTZ...Columbus, GA NBC(NONE) TVH(38) E 3/4
WLTZ Television, P. O. Box 12289
Columbus, GA 31907 USA
>>>
WLUC-TV...Nequanee, MI FOX(NBC) TVH(6) C 3/4
WLUC-TV, 177 U.S. 41 East
Nequanee, MI 49866 USA
>>>
WLWT...Cincinnati, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
WLWT Television, 140 West 9th Street
Cincinnati, OH 45202 USA
URL: [44]http://www.wlwt.com/
>>>
WMAQ-TV...Chicago, IL NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
WMAQ-TV, 454 North Columbus Drive
Chicago, IL 60611 USA
URL: [45]http://www.nbc5chi.com
>>>
WMC-TV...Memphis, TN NBC(NONE) TVH(5) E 3/4
WMC-TV, P. O. Box 4420
Memphis, TN 38104 USA
>>>
WMDT...Salisbury, MD FOX(NBC) TVH(47) E 3/4
WMDT Television, 202 Downtown Plaza
Salisbury, MD 21801 USA
W(W41) 074-2474 F(F41) 074-2576
>>>
WMGM-TV...Linwood, NJ NBC(NONE) TVH(40) E 3/4
WMGM-TV, 1601 New Road
Linwood, NJ 08221 USA
URL: [46]http://www.acy.digex.net/~wmgmtv/
>>>
WMGT...Macon, GA NBC(NONE) TVH(41) E 3/4
WMGT Television, P. O. Box 4328
Macon, GA 31213 USA
>>>
WMTV...Madison, WI NBC(NONE) TVH(15) C 3/4
WMTV Television, 615 Forward Drive
Madison, WI 53913 USA
URL: [47]http://www.15wmtv.com
>>>
WNBC-TV...New York, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(4) E 3/4
WNBC-TV, 30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10112 USA
>>>
WNDU-TV...South Bend, IN NBC(NONE) TVH(16) C 3/4
WNDU-TV, P. O. Box 1616
South Bend, IN 46634 USA
>>>
WNEM-TV...Saginaw, MI NBC(NONE) TVH(5) C 3/4
WNEM-TV, Saginaw, MI 48606 USA
>>>
WNNE...White River Junction, VT NBC(NONE) TVH(31) E 3/4
WNNE Television, P. O. Box 1310
White River Junction, VT 05001 USA
W(W80) 229-5310 F(F80) 229-5398
>>>
WNUV-TV...Baltimore, MD NBC(NONE) TVH(54) E 3/4
WNUV-TV, 3001 Druid Park Drive
Baltimore, MD 21215 USA
W(W41) 046-2540 F(F41) 052-3431
>>>
WNWO...Toledo, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(24) C 3/4
WNWO Television, 4247 Dorr Street
Toledo, OH 43607 USA
>>>
WNYT...Albany, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(13) P 3/4
WNYT Television, P. O. Box 3130
Albany, NY 31706 USA
URL: [48]http://www.wnyt.com/
>>>
WOTV...Grand Rapids, MI NBC(NONE) TVH(8) C 3/4
WOTV Television, Grand Rapids, MI 49503 USA
>>>
WOWL-TV...Florence, AL NBC(NONE) TVH(15) E 3/4
WOWL-TV, P. O. Box 2220
Florence, AL 35630 USA
>>>
WOWT...Omaha, NE NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
WOWT Television, 3501 Farnam Street
Omaha, NE 68131 USA
>>>
WPBN-TV...Traverse City, MI NBC(NONE) TVH(7) C 3/4
WPBN-TV, P. O. Box 546
Traverse City, MI 49685 USA
URL: [49]http://aliens.com/tv7-4/tv7-4.html
>>>
WPSD-TV...Paducah, KY NBC(NONE) TVH(6) C 3/4
WPSD-TV, P. O. Box 1197
Paducah, KY 42002 USA
>>>
WPTV...West Palm Beach, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(5) E 3/4
WPTV Television, 622 North Flagler Drive
West Palm Beach, FL 33401 USA
W(W40) 765-5-54 F(F40) 765-5894
>>>
WPTZ-TV...Plattsburgh, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(5) E 3/4
WPTZ-TV, 5 Television Drive
Plattsburgh, NY 12901 USA
>>>
WPXI...Pittsburgh, PA NBC(NONE) TVH(11) E 3/4
WPXI Television, P. O. Box 1100
Pittsburgh, PA 15230 USA
>>>
WRCB-TV...Chattanooga, TN NBC(NONE) TVH(3) E 3/4
WRCB-TV, 900 Whitehall Road
Chattanooga, TN 37405 USA
>>>
WREX-TV...Rockford, IL NBC(NONE) TVH(13) C 3/4
WREX-TV, P. O. Box 530
Rockford, IL 61105 USA
>>>
WROC-TV...Rochester, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(8) E 3/4
WROC-TV
Rochester, NY USA
>>>
WSAV-TV...Savannah, GA NBC(NONE) TVH(3) E 3/4
WSAV-TV, 1430 East Victory Drive
Savannah, GA 31404 USA
>>>
WSAZ-TV...Huntington, WV NBC(NONE) TVH(3) E 3/4
WSAZ-TV, P. O. Box 2115
Huntington, WV 25721 USA
URL: [50]http://www.ianet.net/wsaz/
>>>
WSFA...Montgomery, AL NBC(NONE) TVH(12) E 3/4
WSFA Television, 12 East Delano Avenue
Montgomery, AL 36105 USA
URL: [51]http://www.traveller.com/wsfa
>>>
WSLS-TV...Roanoke, VA NBC(NONE) TVH(10) E 3/4
WSLS-TV, P. O. Box 10
Roanoke, VA 24022 USA
>>>
WSMV...Nashville, TN NBC(NONE) TVH(4) E 3/4
WSMV Television, P. O. Box 4
Nashville, TN 37202 USA
URL: [52]http://wsmv.com/wsmv/
>>>
WSTM-TV...Syracuse, NY NBC(NONE) TVH(3) E 3/4
WSTM-TV, 1030 James Street
Syracuse, NY 13203 USA
>>>
WTAP-TV...Parkersburg, WV NBC(NONE) TVH(15) E 3/4
WTAP-TV, One Television Plaza
Parkersburg, WV 26101 USA
>>>
WTHR...Indianapolis, IN NBC(NONE) TVH(13) C 3/4
WTHR Television, 1000 North Meridian Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204 USA
URL: [53]http://www.wthr.com/13/
>>>
WTLV...Jacksonville, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(12) E 3/4
WTLV Television, 1070 East Adams Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202 USA
W(W90) 435-4121 F(F90) 463-3889
>>>
WTOM-TV...Traverse City, MI NBC(NONE) TVH(4) C 3/4
WTOM-TV, P. O. Box 546
Traverse City, MI 49685 USA
>>>
WTOV-TV...Steubenville, OH NBC(NONE) TVH(9) C 3/4
WTOV-TV, P. O. Box 9999
Steubenville, OH 43952 USA
>>>
WTVA...Tupelo, MS NBC(NONE) TVH(9) C 3/4
WTVA Television, P. O. Box 350
Tupelo, MS 38801 USA
>>>
WTVJ...Miami, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(4) E 3/4
WTVJ Television, 316 North Miami Avenue
Miami, FL 33128 USA
W(W30) 537-9444 F(F30) 578-9416
URL: [54]http://www.nbc6.nbc.com
Email:
>>>
WTWC...Tallahassee, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(40) E 3/4
WTWC Television, 8440 Deerlake Road
Tallahassee, FL 32312-5001 USA
W(W90) 489-3414 F(F90) 489-3697
>>>
WTWO...Terre Haute, IN NBC(NONE) TVH(2) C 3/4
WTWO Television, P. O. Box 299
Terre Haute, IN 47808 USA
URL: [56]http://www.wtwo.com
Email:
>>>
WVIR-TV...Charlottesville, VA NBC(NONE) TVH(29) E 3/4
WVIR-TV, P. O. Box 769
Charlottesville, VA 22902 USA
>>>
WVIT...West Hartford, CT NBC(NONE) TVH(30) E 3/4
WVIT Television, 1422 New Britain Avenue
West Hartford, CT 06110 USA
W(W20) 352-1303 F(F20) 352-1486
>>>
WVLA-TV...Baton Rouge, LA NBC(NONE) TVH(33) C 3/4
WVLA-TV, P. O. Box 14685
Baton Rouge, LA 70898 USA
>>>
WVTM-TV...Birmingham, AL NBC(NONE) TVH(13) E 3/4
WVTM-TV, P. O. Box 10502
Birmingham, AL 35202 USA
>>>
WVVA...Bluefield, WV NBC(NONE) TVH(6) E 3/4
WVVA Television, P. O. Box 1930
Bluefield, WV 24701 USA
>>>
WWBT...Richmond, VA NBC(NONE) TVH(12) E 3/4
WWBT Television, P. O. Box 12
Richmond, VA 23201 USA
>>>
WWLP...Feeding Hills, MA NBC(NONE) TVH(22) E 3/4
WWLP Television, 591 North West Street
Feeding Hills, MA 01030 USA
W(W41) 378-6220 F(F41) 378-6714
Email:
>>>
WXFL...Unknown, FL NBC(NONE) TVH(8) E 3/4
WXFL Television, Unknown, FL USA
>>>
WXIA-TV...Atlanta, GA NBC(NONE) TVH(11) E 3/4
WXIA-TV, 1611 Peachtree Street, NE
Atlanta, GA 30309 USA
>>>
WXII...Winston, NC NBC(NONE) TVH(12) E 3/4
WXII Television, P. O. Box 11847
Winston, NC 27116 USA
URL: [59]http://www.wxii.com
>>>
WYFF...Greenville, SC NBC(NONE) TVH(4) E 3/4
WYFF Television, 505 Rutherford Street
Greenville, SC 29602 USA
URL: [60]http://www.wyff.com/news4/
>>>
KFOR-TV...Oklahoma City, OK NBC(NONE) TVL(X) C 3/4
KFOR-TV, P. O. Box 14068
Oklahoma City, OK 73114 USA
URL: [61]http://www.ionet.net/~kfor/kfor.html
>>>
KRNV...Reno, NV NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KRNV Television, 1790 Vassar Street
Reno, NV 89502 USA
>>>
WCNC-TV...Charlotte, NC NBC(NONE) TVX(X) E 3/4
WCNC-TV, 1001 Wood Ridge Center Drive
Charlotte, NC 28217 USA
URL: [62]http://www.vnet.net/wcnc/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
NBC-TV...New York City, NY NBC(NONE) TVN(X) 3/4
National Broadcasting Company (NBC)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York City, NY 10112 USA
W(W21) 266-4207 F(F21) 266-4754
URL: [63]http://www.nbc.com
NBC TV CENTER
URL: [64]http://www.nbc.com/news/guide/superchannel.html
NBC SuperChannel
URL: [65]http://www.nbc.tonightshow.com/ The Tonight Show
Email: Dateline
Email: NBC Nightly News
Email: Today
Email: Marketing
Email: NBC Sports
Email: NBC Entertainment
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
WNCN-TV...Raleigh, NC WB(NBC) TVL(X) E 3/4
WNCN-TV, 1205 Front Street
Raleigh, NC 27609 USA
>>>
WFLA-TV...Tampa, FL NBC(NONE) TVL(18) P 3/4
WFLA-TV, 905 East Jackson Street
Tampa, FL 33602 USA
W(W81) 322-8888 F(F81) 322-1578
URL: [72]http://www.wfla.com
>>>
WHDH-TV...Boston, MA NBC(CBS) TVL(7) P 3/4
WHDH-TV, 7 Bullfinch Place
Boston, MA 02114 USA
W(W61) 772-5077 F(F61) 722-7478
URL: [73]http://www.whdh.com/
>>>
KFAA...Rogers, AR NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KFAA Television, P. O. Box 114
South First Street
Rogers, AR 72756 USA
>>>
KTFT...Twin Falls, ID NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KTFT Television, 834 Falls Avenue #1020
Twin Falls, ID 83301 USA
>>>
WOOD-TV...Grand Rapids, MI NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
WOOD-TV, P. O. Box B
Grand Rapids, MI 49501 USA
>>>
WGBC...Meridian, MS NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
WGBC Television, 116 Skyland Drive
Meridian, MS 39301 USA
>>>
KBZ-TV...Bozeman, MT NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KBZ-TV, 201 South Wallace #A5
Bozeman, MT 59715 USA
>>>
KVLY-TV...Fargo, ND NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KVLY-TV, P. O. Box 1878
Fargo, ND 58107 USA
>>>
KMTZ...Springfield, OR NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KMTZ Television, P. O. Box 7308
Springfield, OR 97401 USA
>>>
KMTX-TV...Springfield, OR NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KMTX-TV, P. O. Box 7308
Springfield, OR 97401 USA
>>>
KXAM-TV...Austin, TX NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KXAM-TV, 908 West MLK
Austin, TX 78701 USA
>>>
KWES-TV...Midland, TX NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KWES-TV, P. O. Box 60150
Midland, TX 79711 USA
>>>
KLSB-TV...Nocogdoches, TX NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
KLSB-TV, 204 West Main Street
Nocogdoches, TX 75961 USA
>>>
WTMJ-TV...Milwaukee, WI NBC(NONE) TVL(X) P 3/4
<<<END>>>
|
+ - | Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 12:31 PM 7/22/96 -0400, Zoli Szekely wrote:
>I already know, that you don't like Erzsebet Gidai bacause
>she is a former member of the communist party.
Not because she was a communist party member. I should dislike an
awful lot of people if that was my criteria. I dislike her because she is
stupid, ignorant, and is an enemy of democracy and the free market. And, by
the way, she was not just a party member--garden variety kind--she was
employed by a ideological institute attached to the central committee. I
find it interesting that if a high-ranking party employee switches sides and
goes over to the Christian, populist, nationalist side, all is forgiven. The
situation is entirely different if they belong to "liberal-socialist" side.
>> (1) the claim that I want
>> to eliminate the welfare state. I don't want to eliminate the welfare state
>> but I would restrict social benefits only to those who are in need.
>That's very respectable. So you would appoint a governmental
>investigation for any benefit application, wouldn't you?
This is not really worth commenting on, but here are a few general
observations. Some people find it impossible to understand that Hungary is
not only a poor country but also has been living beyond its means for close
to thirty years. You may want to give all the possible benefits for all
citizens, but the country cannot afford this. Moreover, whatever you give
comes from the population as a whole. How many times do I have to repeat
that one reason for the high taxes and other deducations is exactly these
social benefits which a lot of people don't even need. They get it because
they are entitled to it. This is not only unfair but also not affordable.
>> Especially now that the Hungarian
>> government no longer can borrow immense ammounts from the west in order to
>> finance this system, with its top-heavy bureauracy.
>I agree with reasonable cuts of bureaucracy.
Reasonable cuts? The bureaucracy is immense. According to some
calculations, one half would be enough to carry on the government's business.
>But the
>basic level of social rights must be maintained.
That is nice and vague.
>How
>about the economic growth, which was artificially stopped
>in 94? Why did the liberals force the government to cut
>and cut without implementing a healthy growth in the
>economy?
Interesting switch from the subject on hand. By the way, that
healthy growth was not so terribly healthy and at the price of further debts.
>> I have another problem with these social benefits: the corruption
>> which it produces. They are fertile grounds for fraud.
>Typical right-wing argument.
It is amazing that Zoli Szekely keeps calling me a rightwinger when
I have been observing his political views for over two years by now and he
always argues from the right against me, the liberal. Suddenly now, I am a
rightwinger!
>> The number of people
>> receiving disability benefits are staggering.
>Maybe the eploitation by our newborn 'social burgoise'
>disabled them. Is it impossible?
Whoever the "social bourgeoisie" is, I am not sure. But isn't it
again typical? It is the fault of capitalism that we have so many disabled,
a great percentage of whom, by the way, is not disabled.
>> The second half of the sentence: (2) the welfare state "is not a
>> luxuriery there, as you may think it is in some Western European countries."
>> I'm afraid it is a luxury which even much richer western European countries
>> can ill afford, never mind Hungary.
>O.K. Eva, why don't you go home and try to live with a
>salary of $200 a month?
Again, this is a typical irrational answer in a rational discourse.
It is absolutely beside the point whether one lives here or there. This is
an economic question which should be addressed without the influences of
personal considerations.
>(Ah, forget it. You already starved enough in you
>childhood...)
Again, just for the record. In the first place I didn't starve.
Second it was not my childhood I was talking about. I had a very comfortable
childhood, and relatively decent teens, given the existence of a Stalinist
regime. My twenties, on the other hand, were a bit bumpy.
>> Admittedly, it will take perhaps two decades, maybe longer, before
>> we will have a different public attitude toward personal responsibility.
>Personal responsibility? Are you talking about personal
>responsibility? That's a grand surprise for me, Eva!
>Really! Maybe our political views are not so hopelessly
>far from each other as I thought before.
Our political views are diametrically opposed, and I am not sure
what you are talking about in the above paragraph.
>Some people in Hungary should bear the personal responsibility
>for the demages made by faulty economic theories. How about
>jailing Mr Bokros?
Well, that's your opinion. People more knowledgeable in economic
matters than you think otherwise.
>> In Hungary's case, it might mean the slow-down
>> of foreign investment which, right now, is the only salvation of the economy
.
>Why is the Hungarian economy dying itself? In all the
>ex-Soviet block coutries there were a considerable
>growth in the economy is the last couple of years --
>except Hungary.
Oh, I see. All the economic troubles associated with the change of
economic structures began only two years ago when the MDF-led government
lost the elections. Prior to that everything was honky-dory. That's not how
I have heard it.
>Who's interest is to block the healthy
>growth of the Hungarian economy?
You tell me but perhaps it is in the interest of those wretched
liberals, you see, they are not really Hungarians!!
Eva Balogh
|
+ - | Re: Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Not only is it shameful, but rather it clearly shows that the left hand
does not know what the right hand is doing!
On one hand they want to join NATO deperately and join the EU but when it
comes to civilized bhavior, then we all get Booed!
They should be happy that it is the North Americans that are there now
and not the Germans, Rusiians, and all those others that used to trample
poor Hungary. I guess if they have nothing better to do...then why not
booo???
Peter Soltesz
|
+ - | Re: I call only nazis nazis. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
In article >,
says...
>George Szaszvari wrote:
>>Completely correct Gabor. Black fascism is just as rife and deeply
>>entrenched as any other type of fascism (and worse, it will gain
>>momentum while politically correct zealots prevent even the public
>>acknowledgement of its existence.)
>
>Does it mean, that fascism and nazism can be interchangeably used?
>Does it mean, that Franco, the fa schist dictator who saved countless
>of jews from Hitler's wrath, was also a nazi, az well? Does it ever
>occurred to those who mention nazism & fascism interchangeably, that
>one of them was an Italian form of national socialism, meanwhile
>the other was a German national socialism. Gabor's example about nazism,
>suddenly transformed into fascism. Perhaps it is convenient, but far
>from being true.
You rightly state that there have been, and are, other threads on the
fascist theme, of which nazism is just one, each with their own priorities;
prevailing local conditions dictate (so to speak.) Yes, people often
interchangeably use fascist and nazi, sloppy perhaps, but it's the modern
vernacular. Personally, I prefer to call Farrakhan and his ilk fascist
rather than nazi, but I still know what people mean when they refer to
him as nazi. (Perhaps I should call him nazi, instead?) Anyway, the term
*black fascism* is gaining some currency in the UK, mainly from the growing
number of victims of black crime. So much of it is happening and so little
is being done about it that many victims aren't even bothering to report it
any more (one OAP I know has been mugged NINE times by blacks in the last
ten years and gave up reporting it to the police after the first three
times...how many more are like that?) The reason for calling them fascist?
Because many justify the criminal activities of black perpetrators as a
natural fight against whitey and the whole white dominated system, in a
similar way that Hitler used others as scapegoats to justify his own evil,
an attitude that is a luxurious alibi for not having think for one's self,
as though nobody else in history, or even now, had it tough, was enslaved,
were victims of genocide, etc. I side with blacks, and anyone else, in
the generic fight against greed, hate, racism and injustice, but I'm
against them on their moronic ticket of *our problems are all whitey's
fault, so let's get 'em*. Certainly, many whites practice racism, and
I'm against them too, but racism has been a world-wide phenomenon since
tribal consciousness has existed in life forms on this planet: it's
involutionary, the result of acquiescing in smug ignorance rather than
seeking enlightenment. Fascism originally had more to do with strong
centralized political government allowing free local economies to flourish,
but the popular meaning of fascism is now, rightly or wrongly, associated
with the attitudes and behaviour of one of its greatest champions, Hitler
the nazi.
Since this isn't germane to this list, that's all I'm prepared to say on
the matter (I'm also a bit busy right now,) so, apologies to readers for
the digression and g'night!
--
George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * ARM Club * C=64..ICPUG * NW London CC
|
+ - | Re: CUCUMBER SALAD (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 04:42 PM 7/22/96 +0200, Laszlo Meszaros wrote:
>Another cucumber salas: get a few cloves of garlic, break or slice them up
>to small slices and then mix them with a cup of sour cream. Then, pour this
>mixture on the salad You made according to Peter Soltesz. For beginners, it
>is recommended to use one clove of garlic only.
>
>Comment: do not eat this salad on weekdays, or, You'll be fired soon. :))
This is also called tzatziki in Greece and djadjiki in Turkey.
Gabor D. Farkas
|
+ - | Re: Zoning laws in Hungary (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Interestingly enough, the same day the article in Nepszabadsag was
published, another one in Magyar Hirlap describes that Gyorgy Korda, a
singer, had to pay some three million forints penalty for deviating from the
plans when building his huge house.
To be fair, similar problems exist in the US also. For example in our school
district if someone is caught with an illegal addition to the house, s/he is
only penalized with future tax increases, not retroactive ones. So, everyone
does it. After all, any year one is not caught means money saved.
Gabor D. Farkas
|
+ - | Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 11:11 AM 7/22/96 -0400, Sz. Zoli wrote:
>Hey, it is then a Nice New World in the United States
>of America!! According to Doc Farkas, the biggest human
>rights event in this decade, the Million Man March was
>organized by nazis... Let's understand this statement:
>Was it then the 'Million Nazis March' ??
I thought we were talking about Farrakhan and not about the other participants.
Also, I am neither a medical doctor nor do I have a P.H. D.
Gabor D. Farkas
|
+ - | Re: Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 04:39 PM 7/22/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>
>And I always believed this kind of behaviour was reserved for American
>troops only.
>
Welcome to the club!
Gabor D. Farkas
|
+ - | Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 03:52 PM 7/22/96 -0700, I wrote:
> nor do I have a P.H. D.
>
Not even a Ph. D. ;-)))
Gabor D. Farkas
|
+ - | Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 04:24 PM 7/22/96 -0400, Peter Soltesz wrote:
>Perhaps then, and only then, will the reds, pinkos, corrupt bastards get
>thrown out, and then the county will have a chance of rebirth!
I just love the way you dehumanize people. First it was the undesirables in
the Turkish baths in Budapest. Then came 'the doles'. Now it's the reds,
pinkos, and corrupt bastards. In another or your posts/rants today it was
the Germans and Russians. Tell me Peter, have you learnt how to say "Sieg
Heil!" yet?
Joe Szalai
|
+ - | Re: Ideological babbling from the radical left (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
Peter Soltesz wrote:
> Zoli...if you think that jailing mr. Bokroswould solve the problem then
> go ahead!
I don't think it should solve the problems. Eva
spoke about personal responsibility. I believe,
Mr Janos Kornai had a suggestion a couple of years
ago: let's put personal financial responsibility
on the leaders of the Hungarian finance politics.
In other words, if the country goes into bankruptcy,
then the finance minister, maybe the prime minister,
etc. should also go into bankruptcy. And these
politicians should pay cash for their mistakes.
Maybe Mr Kornai was right.
Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: I call only nazis nazis (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
D. Farkas said:
> I thought we were talking about Farrakhan and not
> about the other participants.
That means not everybody is nazi? Only the organizers?
How comes then that the media greeted the Million Man
March which was organized by nazis, and the key speaker
was a nazi? I just don't get it.
And how could American nazis call up 1 million people
into Washington to demonstrate at the White House and
the Capitol? Is it possible, anyway, in a democracy?
Well, I have a clue. You probably don't consider the
US a democracy. If they allow nazis to organize such a
big public event... That would explain a lot!
Sz. Zoli
|
+ - | Re: Shameful behaviour! (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 04:39 PM 7/22/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>This news item from the Associated Press was in today's Kitchener Record.
>----------
>BUDAPEST
>Communists boo Canadian troops
>
>Hundreds of Communists greeted a NATO military exercise in Hungary with
>boos, the Hungarian state news agency reported.
> "Gentlemen, go home! Take your soldiers, your weapons, your aircraft, and
>let us live in peace," Hungarian Socialist Workers' party leader Gyula
>Thuermer said in Szolnok, 80 kilometres east of the capital Budapest, MTI
>news agency reported.
> More than 1,000 military personnel, including Canadians, were gathering in
>the area for an exercise today. It will bring together troops from 16
>countries under the aegis of the Partnership for Peace - preparation for
>NATO's expansion into Eastern Europe.
>----------
>
>And I always believed this kind of behaviour was reserved for American
>troops only.
Don't kid yourself. Don't think that the average Hungarian makes a
huge distinction between the pristine Canadians and the rotten Americans.
Those who are against NATO and the West don't care about the nationality of
the soldiers.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: Hungarian dole (welfare) etc. (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 12:32 PM 7/22/96 -0400, Peter Soltesz wrote:
>But the fact is that no-one in Hungary wants to give up their "dole" and
>would rather groan and moan about things. The govt must shrink if it
>wants to make the change to free market economics. It is overtaxing the
>people and thus there are NO attempts at creating jobs. Rather, the govt
>burecracy is ingrained, inept, inefficient and corrupt.
Yes, I'm afraid Peter is right when it comes to "inept, inefficient,
and corrupt" government. This is becoming more and more obvious to me. And
one more thing. While a large percentage of the population is asked to make
sacrifices the politicians and the high civil servants are either flaunting
their wealth or demand luxurious extras as part of their jobs. They also
have very little common sense. Here is, for example, Gyula Horn's house.
Gyula Horn is, somewhat similarly to Torgyan, is a demagogue. He likes to
portray himself as a second Kadar in the sense that he is frugal and
unpretentious. He is not corrupt and he is just an "ordinary guy." And he
stands up for the ordinary guy like himself. And what happens next: he is
building a house with his sons and their families which are apparently ugly
but palatious: swimming pool, sauna, large lot, three stories and costs
close to 100 million forints! A staggering amount of money in Hungary.
Actually, it is a staggering amount of money even in the United States. A
house which costs 750,000 dollars--in Hungary! And when it comes to light,
he and his comrades handle the whole affair so ineptly. Basically saying
that a country's prime minister has every right to have a nice house when he
retires. Otherwise, the population ought to be ashamed of itself! Or, it
turns out that one of the minister's official (one of the two) car was
stolen. He wants a new one: a 60 thousand dollar BMW. Nothing less is good
enough for the minister of a poverty-stricken country! Luckily that came to
light too and suddenly our minister settled for a Volkswagen.
>Thus, they SELL
>the country and its industries to pay for their mistakes (some get rich)
>and nothing gets to the people.
The above statement needs a bit of refining. I am all for selling
state properties: the sooner the better. But the income from these sales
shouldn't go "to the people." First of all, there is no such thing as
getting a certain sum and giving it to the people. Unless you divide the
money, and give each person a few dollars. Tamas Suchman, privatization
minister, had a *marvelous* idea: let's spend it fast instead of paying part
of the country's incredible debt load. Luckily the opposition, this time
with the help of the SZDSZ and a few socialist MPs, put an end to that idea!
>The insane taxt rates, the constant
>hiding and cheating on both sides will nbever let the country exit from
>its quagmire.
Yes, the people are practically forced to cheat or the rules and
regulations are so poorly written that cheating is terribly easy.
>Did you know that they have among many others: subsidies for children,
>fro old folks, for veterans, for tansportatiojn, for lunch, for food, for
>housing, etc. sometime it has got to come to a halt and pay only those
>who are in need!!!!!
Oh, yes. I met several old teachers on pension who never cook. They
get their food from the school cafeterias which are so heavily subsidized
that it costs practically nothing. Admittedly, they get very small pensions
but when you can have a decent meal for less than 100 fts. (about 75 cents)
the value of pension is greatly increased. At the same time one of these
teachers have a summer home at Lake Balaton and a nice apartment of her own
in town.
>Here is a proposal:
>
>1- cut taxes to 25%
>2- cut dole to the bone!
>3- Use the moneys obtained by sale of industry, etc to create new
> jobs or industry, training, etc.
>4- ask the west to come in and re-organize the govt.
>5- jail anyone that has conflict of interest in the govt.
>6- pay a living wage to all --- if you work for the govt then get paud
> commercial rates.
>7- get rid of the non-communicating govt offices, dept, agencies, etc.
These are wonderful ideas but there are political considerations and
I very much doubt that any government would be able to fulfill such an
agenda. As for "ask the west to come in and reorganize the government," that
is about the last thing they would do. They are certain that all foreigners
are total idiots and only real-real Hungarians can possibly understand the
Hungarian situation. "Jail anyone that has a conflict of interest," my God,
the whole government would be sitting in jail.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: New Thread / Same Old Topic (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 08:23 PM 7/19/96 -0400, Joe Szalai wrote:
>Such a person would see that regardless of the thread,
>Eva Balogh and I always end in a slugfest over the pros and cons of the
>market economy, social programmes, and politics in general. And,
>invariably, I'd be in favour of good social programmes and services and
>she'd be opposed.
Oh, "good social programs"! But there are hardly any "good social
programs." Most of them just an awful waste of money which help no one
except those people who manage to get a nice, fat job out of them.
>Her opposition comes from her belief that the nation,
>country, taxpayers, or what-have-you, can't afford the programmes. She
>believes that these social programmes, if not severely reduced, will
>devastate the national economy and there will be even fewer programmes to go
>around. On a superficial level her arguments are not bad. But lets go
>beyond the superficial.
I'm glad that at least "on a superficial level" my arguments are not
bad! The problem is that I'm right. The West-European welfare state is close
to bankruptcy. As in a New York Times article a German bureaucrat said: the
German people don't seem to understand that you cannot work less and less
and make more and more money, and live better and better. You cannot remain
competitive and have six-eight weeks of vacation a year in addition to
God-knows-how-many holidays. You can't run a small business in such a way
that you cannot freely hire and fire. I don't think that my friend Andrea
Martin will be upset if I quote her situation. She is a Hungarian and a
dentist (a former professor at the University of Heidelberg who has had her
own practice for a number of years). Her receptionist is pregnant. She will
have to pay three-months salary of her receptionist after she is no longer
able to work. For another three months the goverment will give her the
equivalent of her salary. Meanwhile, she is unable to let her go. But, as
she told me, whom can she hire for only 17 weeks or so to fill the
receptionist's position. Most likely nobody. One of Kohl's suggestion is to
exempt small businesses (under ten employees) from these regulations.
Simply, you can't strangle business, especially small business in that
fashion. And if you do, the whole economy is going to suffer as it does
already in Germany, France, Belgium, Sweden, and so on.
>'Existing socialism' required the working class (oh, my
>God, I used that expression) to make sacrifices to build 'socialism'. Some
>workers went above and beyond what was required to help fulfill those silly
>five year plans. And they were recognized by the state by getting a piece
>of paper that they could put on their wall. It was a bit like the
>McDonald's "employee of the week" gimmick. For extra work and dedication,
>workers were rewarded with a piece of paper with no cash value. Meanwhile,
>the elite, and the apparatchiki accumulated money and power.
Oh, my God. Surely, you don't take all this terribly seriously. The
communist parties of Eastern Europe were not the parties of the working
class! The old system of plan fulfillment died years and years ago and even
when it was alive it was a fraud.
>The demise of 'existing socialism' in Hungary did not mean the demise of the
>existing elite. How could it? They had the money and the power. 'New'
>leaders emerged from this same class.
You are quite right. As Hungarians always say: we have only one
elite. Yes, they didn't have another elite somewhere in reserve! The right
wing is extremely upset over that fact.
>They understood that the Hungarian
>economy had to be fixed if it ever wanted to compete in the new world order.
>It had to be fixed if the elite wanted to hold on to the wealth they had
>accumulated in the previous system. And how were they to hold on to their
>wealth and fix the economy? Simple. Increase taxes and greatly reduce
>social programmes and benifits for the middle and working classes so that
>the debt can be paid off. Once again the weakest members of society are
>called upon to make sacrifices to save the national economy. "Plus la
>change..."
I don't think that you are terribly familiar with the system of
existing socialism. The political and economic leaders were not as wealthy
as you think. I recommend that you read Janos Kornai's book, *The Socialist
System: The Political Economy of Communism (Oxford University Press, 1992;
Princeton University Press, 1992). In one of the early chapters Janos Kornai
tells the reader about the socialist elite's economic and political
position. It wasn't all that glamorous! The rest is all the product of your
imagination without really knowing the facts.
>I just don't buy into their utopian dream of sacrificing today so that the
>future will be bright. Next they'll be showing us the shining path.
We are not talking about some bright future and some sacrifice. We
are talking about a semi-bankrupt economy, where you have no other choice.
Eva B.
|
+ - | Re: Pacsni? (mind) |
VÁLASZ |
Feladó: (cikkei)
|
At 01:43 PM 7/20/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Anyone have a recipe for pacsni?.my dad would like to know....
>
> Jules Hernadi
Pacsni? Doesn't that have something to do with lungs? I checked a
couple of Hungarian cookbooks but I couldn't find the receipe.
Eva B.
|
|