That time when Hungary looked after fighters it was
new on the market, no one had them in airforces. It
was and is extremely expensive; fopr that price you
may consider to buy fighters from the SU series.

Approximatelly at the same time there was an ugly Gri-
pen accident when one fighter crashed over the suburb
of Swedish capital which did not improve the market's
judgement on the plane.

Tamas

C.K. ZOLTANI writes:
>It should be noted that another great disadvantage in the use of MiG-29s
>is the high fuel consumption and the short life of the plane's twin engines.
>These have to be replaced after about 300 flying hours and the aircraft
>altogether after 2500 flying hours as compared to the F-16's 8000 hours.
<Jane's Intelligence Review>

I question the unbiasedness of this quote. Just few months ago there was
a long, thorough-going discussion on sci.military on the subject of these
two planes, Mig-29 contra F-16.
The final picture was far not so bad on Mig-29. The F-16 slightly better
in low speed flight, the Mig is considerably better in high speed fights.
The electronic equipments are  considerably better in F-16 but there are
easily replacable with better one. If I remember well,the "high fuel con-
sumption" is bogus. The 2500 contra 8000 hours clearly are reflected in
the fighters' price.
The Jane's series is a thourough reference work for military instruments
but never forget that in a certain way it is advertisement of the USA mi-
litary industry and when it is possible it always biased towards the ame-
rican goodies.(The average man may objectively compares two different in-
fantryor artillery equipments but definitely can not judge high-end
fighters ,choppers, submarines or aircraft-carriers.)

You may read the result of the recent Magyar-Russian meeting in Moskau;
Hungary will get  $300 million of worth military equipment as compensa-
tion for the russian debt ($800 million).

Do you know any info on what we will get ?

Tamas

Dear Norman Janos Udvardy Walter (Sorry, but how many names do you
have? And which is/are your first name(s)? No offence intended, but it sounds
to me like a whole family)

        The Hungarian megye-(county)system as an administrative organization
was by and large a creation of our first king, Saint Stephen I, but it
continued to evolve under the Arpad-dynasty (organization of the peripheral
areas, etc). The names of the counties remained the same over the centuries
but their boundaries must have changed many times, until the administrative
reorganization in the early 1870s created the counties as they are
represented on most maps of pre-Trianon Hungary (I don't remember their exact
number but there were roughly fiftysomething counties). Trianon of course
did away with the bigger half of the counties as well and the rest were
reorganized (fragments brought together, etc.) and renamed trying to preserve
the names of old counties which no longer existed. Since World War II, county
boundaries were modified again several times (there are 19 of them today).

                Charlie Pinter

Dear Heidi,

        I'm answering you on the journal as well as privately in case
somebody else has similar plans to visit Hungary and may find the information
useful.
        The weather in Central Europe in this part of the year is pretty
similar to the Midwest - maybe less extremes (you rarely get snow on one day
and 60 Fahrenheit the next - the mountainous terrain prevents such quick and
sudden changes). Therefore be prepared for anything: sun, rain, cold or warm
weather.
        Youth Hostels: I've never been to any in Hungary, but I think they
provide you with everything you need - in case you manage to find any in this
part of the year because most of them work during the summer only (they are
university dormitories). One concrete suggestion (I'm being biased at this
point): my former student's hostel, Eotvos College, puts up people during the
schoolyear as well provided that they reserve their room in advance. No
luxury but nice building on Gellert Hill (Buda side), perfectly situated
still out of the main traffic areas, good public transport.
        Address: Eotvos Collegium
                 1118 Budapest Menesi st. 11-13
                 phone: (36-1) 20-90-626 (numbers in brackets are the country
and the area code)
        Unfortunately, receptionists are usually not linguists (this is, by
the way, a common problem in Hungary) so you'll have to be very slow and
patient over the phone until they get an English speaker to discuss things
with you. Useful short sentences, spelled in English fashion:
          "Sobat seretnek" ("I'd like a room" - to let them know what the
hell you want)
          "Besel valaki angolul?" ("Does anyone speak English there?" - to
make it clear that your Hungarian is pretty limited and you want an English
speaker)
        Another useful aspect of the place is that most of the students who
live there speak English (you can even find a few Americans there, I guess)
and you can find some company there. The hill is also an excellent place for
jogging.

        About the countryside: (I'm being biased again) I think most
Hungarian sights are situated in the Western part of the country. You don't
have to look for small town feeling for long because all Hungarian towns save
Budapest are small (not more than 200.000, most of them under 100.000). The
ones with historical atmosphere:
        Sopron (next to Austrian border in the West, beautiful old town from
the 17th-18th c.)
        Veszprem (spectacular view, old castle, 20 kms from Lake Balaton, the
major resort area of Hungary)
        Pecs (Southwest, Turkish buildings from the 17th c., splendid ancient
cathedral, very lively town)
        Eger (Northeast, remains of castle, Turkish minaret, nice place)

        All of the cities above are situated in a hilly area, so the
surroundings are marvellous if you feel like going for a hike. Also each of
them have their excellent local wines.

        Well, that's about it - ask me if I can help with anything else!

                        Have a good trip
                                        Charlie

essai

Tamas ) on 17 Mar 95, in referring to the
quoted figures from Jane's Int. Review, states that

>I question the unbiasedness of this quote....

>high fuel consumption is bogus...

>Jane's is an advertisement of the USA military industry...

It may be worthwhile to note that Jane's is a British publication, and
if anything, they are more likely to be biased toward European than
American manufacturers.

As far as the fuel consumption is concerned, a check of the
characteristics of the  turbines used in both planes should persuade
you of the correctness of the statement.

On the price/quality comparison, noting that our pilots are second to
none by all yardsticks of measurement, the kill ratios in all the
engagements from the Korean War to the present should convince any
skeptic who may question the rationale for the purchase of US
manufactured planes.

Unfortunately, the choices in equipment purchases are often political.
Some of the Hungarian leadership are still wedded to their old handlers
in Moscow, much to the detriment of the Hungarian people.

C.K. ZOLTANI

Hello! I own a Spiritual supply shop in New Brunswick  89 Bayard St.called
the Mystic Gypsy.My wife and I are both Hungarian and are ,and have always
been interested in our own culture. Even though we, and our parents were
born here.Stop by.I will do the same. I have always wondered if We as a
people had a tighter hold on to Spirituality....Maybe I will have this
question answered soon. Also I have found little information on Hungarian
Spirituality around the 13th century.

              Myrrlyn

Please allow me to introduce myself. I am Damian Barna I live in NJ and
own a Spiritual Supply shop. I am interested about the religious rituals
that were native to my ancestors. I am also curious as to the phenomenon
of psychics, are they more prevelent in our culture? If you can help me
out in this area please E-mail me. Also I have found many references to A
spiritual group called Aryans they were in power in the dark ages of
europe I seem to believe that they were in the Carpathian mountain region
similar to the monks of tibet....any info would be GREATLY appreciated

                                                 Damian

Please....I am interested in anything that has to do with my country I
have just found this area. Please feel free to correspond with mw about
any subject.I am Louis Damian Barna. I live in NJ and and have many
questions that I Would like to ask you about Hungarian
Spirituality.Looking forward to your e-mail

                                            Damian

First of all, my apologies for the multiple listings! Four or five days after
writing the piece I was sure that they were lost for good. Now, I am afraid,
they reemerged three times over from their hiding places! Sorry!

Today's news on the Hungarian-language Hirmondo that Gyula Horn announced the
reduction of the Hungarian TV by *1,000* employees! Wow! How many employees
did they have? Adam Horvath, whose appointment last summer created quite an
uproar because the way Gyula Horn handled it, is threatening to resign.

In case, some of you don't get Mozaik, here is another shocker:

>Text:  Zurich based Credit Suisse has abruptly decided  not  to
>proceed with its plan to buy Budapest Bank.  Credit Suisse says
>after months of examination it concluded it would be too costly
>and difficult to restructure Budapest Bank, which is only the
>second Hungarian bank to be privatized.
>
>The announcement shocked the Hungarian business community and the
>government of socialist prime minister Gyula Horn.  The
>government had hoped to earn up to 100 million dollars from the
>sale.  Analysts say the withdrawal further complicates Hungary's
>efforts to restore its tarnished reputation for being a leader in
>free market reforms.

Eva Balogh

I am not sure if it is spelt Potatos  or Potatoes (must check with Dan Quale on
that one), but however the government in power at the time of the Irish potato
famine was "The British Government". There is (as yet) no English government,
 although
there may one day be a Scots government - the handover will involve lots of
 whisky I'm
sure - but our sceptered little isles are known as "The United Kingdom of Great
 Britain and
Northern Ireland" - sorry to be so pedantic......

Micky Allen

 wrote:

: Today's news on the Hungarian-language Hirmondo that Gyula Horn announced the
: reduction of the Hungarian TV by *1,000* employees!

: >Text:  Zurich based Credit Suisse has abruptly decided  not  to
: >proceed with its plan to buy Budapest Bank...Analysts say the withdrawal
: >further complicates Hungary's
: >efforts to restore its tarnished reputation for being a leader in
: >free market reforms.

Well, well, well.  I suppose there's consolation in the belief that, no matter
how bad things are now, at least this government is ideologically purer than
the last one.


--Greg

Hello to whomever:  I received a message this past week (which had been held fo
r
me in  Ukraine) about the availability of a flat in BudaPest.  Phil, it is
evidently one that you have and are willing to rent or sublet.  I am in BudaPes
t
today (March 17) thru March 22.  How can I get to see the flat?  What can you
tell me about it--how many rooms, does it have TV,  telephone, access to public
transportation.  I have minimal Hungarian skills so would appreciate it if ther
e
is someone fluent in English who would be available to assist me for the visit.
Phone in BP is 175-1340.  Thanks.  Hope we can make contact while I am here.
Kay Clatterbuck

Thanks to those who publicly or in private mail expressed support to the
idea of encouraging the MVSZ to come online and publicise their program
to a wider audience than the limited circles presently involved with the
organization.

I read the article Amos quoted, about the correspondence between the
Foundation and the MVSZ regarding the * Magyarok Vilaglapja * magazine. I
would not criticize the MVSz for the position they took in this case. One has
to know a lot more about the issues in order to judge it.  However, I do
blame Coo1ri and Co. for lack of imagination.  They could have done better
with the little money they have.

I just learned that they do communicate, on the personal level with emigre
organizations. They are sending emissaries to various places to meet with
emigre organization officials. These officials have a good supper with the
representative, then they forget about the MVSZ until the next banquet.  At
least this is the way it seems to me from here in Toronto.

I will now write a letter to S. Csoo1ri with snail mail, suggesting that
they should find a way to come online, and try to communicate directly with
individuals rather than only with organizations. If Horn can have an e-mail
address MVSz should have one too!!

Barna Bozoki

Just a couple of things:

To Csaba Zoltani's request regarding the so-called "Benes Decrees"--I don't
happen to have the texts of the decrees to hand, but can make a stab at
finding them, and after that the translation's only a question of time.
In the meantime, there was a commentary in today's Lidove Noviny regarding
the issue of the decrees and their validity, which I'll try to get onto the
list (probably in summary form) as soon as possible.

The same paper, and the BBC Czech language service, carried reports that
Meciar and Horn have reached an agreement on the basic treaty, which
will be signed either Sunday or Monday.  I don't yet have any details on the
specifics; was wondering if anyone else knows?

Finally, on a completely different problem:  my Hungarian reference works
are all back at home in Washington; would any of you happen to know what was
the Hungarian name for the Premyslid king of Hungary (anti-King to Charles
Robert of Anjou, crowned in Szekesfehervar in 1301, fled (carrying the
crown with him, btw, and I don't know exactly how it got back...) in 1304)?
As Czech king he was Vaclav III, and the Czech references give his Hungarian
name as Ladislav V.  But surely that's a Slavic form, not a Magyar one?

Sincerely,

Hugh Agnew

As I was browing the net today, I came to the conclusion that I should 
p
 ut
these disclaimers.
        1) This is not a scam.
        2) I am not going to repost this again.
        3) This is really a true story.
        4) My real name is Theo CHINO

        This morning I tried to send this message. I failed. I got reminded by 
t
 he
people at Netcom that requesting money in the Internet was not allowed. Is that
not
against the principle of free enterprise?
        Let put it that way, I am selling a service which is "nothing" for the 
p
 rice
of a dollar and a stamp. My name is Theo Chino, and I have a story to tell. My
story
is at http://saturn.uaamath.alaska.edu/~theo. I didn't want to put it on the
Net, but
desperation made me do so . My problem is that I am going insane for something
I did
several years ago. I am in trouble. I have a stack of bill that I can not pay.
I have
no job. My profession doesn't believe in me. So I became a homeless bump on
information
Superhiway.
        In a sense, I am proud to be a homeless on the Internet. I might be rai
s
 ing
some issues. Because this message will be posted in most of the groups, I ask
you, I
beg you, Moderator, to let this message on your newsgroup. I am asking you to
be open,
a let me do this request for help.
        You might want to insult me because I am disturbing the peace and tranq
u
 illity
of the place, but this is not intended as a flame. If you want to insult me,
please
email me. If you want to help, please email me. If you have a question, please
email me.
        Today, I just got one of my phone line cut because I did not pay a depo
s
 it.
Next week I will get my Internet account pull out, and so on. You might ask why
I can
not get a regular job and pay my bills like everyone else. The only jobs I can
hold is
as a clerk making $7.00/hr. I hold no diploma because I couldn't finish the
University.
I can not work in the computer field because one of my reference decided that I
wasn't
good enough. So he burn me in this town. I can not start any idea because
nobody will
ever give me a loan. I can not get food stamps because I do not work at a
regular job.
What I know is that I don't want to be a store clerk all my life. A I ask I for
a
little compassion and a dollar 34 to allow me to get back on my tracks.
        Thanks for letting me expressing my views.

        The Cyberspace Homeless.


The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
                                     George Bernard Shaw
--
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   *              *  | Theo CHINO
     *               | 814 Ivy Street - Box 593, Anchorage, AK 99501
       *             |  
        *    *       | http://saturn.uaamath.alaska.edu/~theo
        * *          | 'A POOR lost exiled french in the Last Frontier'
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hugh Agnew asks for the Hungarian name of the Przemyslid king of
Hungary. The name is Vencel. Ladislav V is doubly wrong: Ladislav is, of
course, not a Hungarian name, and Laszlo V, who lived from 1440 to 1457,
and was king of Hungary from 1444 to 1457, was the son of Albert, the
first Habsburg king of Hungary (1438-39--Laszlo is known as "Posthumus,"
for obvious reasons). I hope this helps.

Ivan Marki

On 17 Mar 1995  wrote:

> This message was  originally submitted by  to  the MET-OHAZ li
s
t
> at HUEARN. If  you simply forward it  back to the list, it  will be distribut
e
d
> with the paragraph you are now reading being automatically removed. If you ed
i
t
> the  contributions you  receive into  a digest,  you will  need to  remove th
i
s
> paragraph before  mailing the results  to the list.  Finally, if you  need mo
r
e
> information from  the author of this  message, you should  be able to do  so 
b
y
> simply replying to this note.
>
> ----------------- Message requiring your approval (13 lines) ----------------
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> A MET elektronikus ujsagjan keresztul koszonom azt a komoly erdeklodest,
> amit tanusitanak  a Magyar Koztarsasag Kormanyanak  munkaja irant.
>
>  Szeretnenk megvalaszolni azt a rengeteg e-mailt, amit
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> valaszolni, de megprobalunk valamilyen megoldast
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