: What is the best folkmusic CD out on the market both here and in Hungary?
--
Michelle Sandler

Andras Kornai > wrote:
>
>good to see you riding your favorite hobby horse! Having been labelled
>"Ka1da1rgyerek" and "Ka1da1rve1do3" often enough I guess I'm an official
>representative of the "Ka1da1r Jugend". My background is no secret: I grew up
>on Ro1zsadomb, and never tried to hide the fact. Nor did, to the best of my
>knowledge, anybody else in the same group, a point that I shall return to
>below.

Sure.  Your name is too well known to be able to hide too much. 
But the issue is not so much where folks like you lived, but the kind of
deals they made with the system to achieve and maintain those
privileges. 

>The term "former Communist era elite" is rather deceptive. My parents were
>definitely part of this elite, but they were not Communists, just as "former
>Communist era" museum director Jo1zsef Antall was not one or "former Communist
>era" poet Sa1ndor Csoo1ri was not one, though sure as hell Mr. Antall and I
>used the same optician (a little private store at the bottom of the
>Ro1zsadomb) and Csoo1ri lived on one of the most spectacular streets of
>Ro1zsadomb, six bus stops down from where I lived (on Ro1zsadomb the 
>closer to the bottom the higher the prestige). 

I am quite aware that one did not have to be a Party member to be part
of the elite.  I knew quite a few such non-party members myself.
However, I also know the good personal/social relationship of that
non-Party elite with the Party big shots.  It was also a symbiotic
relationship: one needed the other for maintaining a privileged life
style, the other to legitimize its political power.  It was a very cozy
relationship indeed.
>
>There is no question that the children of the elite had better opportunities
>in every undertaking than other children -- this is part of the definition 
>of "elite" after all.

I think DB already answered this self-serving BS quite well.

>It is not my goal to defend a system of privilege, such as exists in Hungary
>and many other places of the world, but it is patently unrealistic to lay the
>blame, as Joe does, at the feet of the Communists.

This sentence reveals you better than anything so far that you are an
apologist for the former Communist regime.

>I myself have read Solzhenitsin and Orwell long before the obligatory course i
n
>"scientific socialism" at university, and my views were shaped by the former
>not the latter.

Big deal!  You are just confirming what I've been saying.  Namely that
the former Communists era elite had access to things the average people
did not. 

> For the few (and they were few and far between, since
>communism lost all respectability by 1956) children of religious communists
>growing up in the seventies, the communist beliefs of their parents were a
>curse not a blessing, and such children mostly parted ways with their parents
>over the issue.

Sure, but they never divested themselves of the privileges they obtained
through their parents.  Just like the rebelling rich kids at Berkeley
who still expected daddy to bail them out in case of trouble.
It's easy to be rebellious that way.

>simple reason that these people do not, contrary to what Joe says, try to 
>hide their origins. 

Oh really?  How many of those people who originally "founded" the SZALON
list hinted anything of their pre-89 background?  Not that they HAD to,
mind you, but I consider it odd that with the volume of exchanges on HIX
where almost every concievable issue has been covered, including the
backgrounds of favorite or hated politicians, your soul mates seem to be
people without past.  We see the same thing with regards to the former
Party members whose number at the peak amounted to some 800,000, meaning
that the chance is pretty high even in smaller groups to encounter at
least one of them.  Yet they seem to have vanished.  I wonder where.

Well, I think they are quite well represented on these Internet forums.
I think they are the ones who protest the loudest when somebody wonders
about their familiar name, asking if they are related to ...  by any chance.

>Joe, could you cite an example? The fact of the matter is that Hungarian
>society shows little enthusiasm for punishing former communists. 

What?  I can't believe my eyes.  After all it was exactly the Lex
Zetenyi proposal (calling for some light retribution against former
Communist criminals) over which the flame war on FORUM erupted, leading
to the departure of the "let bygones be bygones" crowd to SZALON.

>MDF got
>elected on the slogan of the "Calm Power" and if they preserved their calm
>(rather than following the harsh anti-communist rhetoric of Mr. Ze1te1nyi and
>the like) they would have probably been reelected. As it happened, MDF was
>ready to prosecute the communists and the country voted massively in favor of
>a man well-known to have been a "padded coat" after 56. I'm not ridiculing 

This was only after the people getting disappointed in the lackluster
performance of the Antall government, much of it due to their leaving
formerly appointed apparatchiks in place.  They then used all their
power to sabotage the government.  Unfortunately in '94 there was no
real alternative to the people on the right, so they tried again with
the former leaders promising them the pie in the sky.

>That there is antisemitism in the far right is hardly questionable: anybody
>capable of reading Hungarian can assess that for themselves. The issue is 

It would also be interesting to find out who stirred that up after '88.

>As for the punishment of communists, I sincerely doubt anything will happen.
>The worst abuses of communism were in the fifties: the generation of people
>who were in positions of power at the time were themselves in their forties,
>fifties, and sixties at the time, meaning they are in their eighties and
>beyond today. It's hard to work up a "let's do justice" sentiment against
>octogenerians (not that the far right didn't try with Marosa1n). The abuses of

This does not seem to be an argument when it comes to octogenerian
former Nazies.  Why do you think that is?

>Instead of remaining fixated on the past, the right (I don't mean the far
>right, which I consider hopeless, but the moderate/conservative right) should
>concentrate on drawing a wedge between MSZP and SZDSZ.

SZDSZ does a pretty good job on that on its own, thank you.

>Remove the threat of far right participation in
>politics and MSZP loses a lot of its current appeal. Remove the most unpopular
>planks from the various rightwing platforms, and SZDSZ, which is very
>sensitive to what is popular and what isn't, is just as likely to be a
>minority partner of a right-wing government as a left-wing one.

Well, nobody said SZDSZ would not do another 180% turn if that's what it
takes to keep its power.

Joe Pannon

On Tue, 25 Jun 1996, Penio Penev wrote:

> 
> Because babies are persons.  Or rather -- living human beings.
> 


First, embryos are not babies. Second, an embryo is a human being as much 
as your nose is - however, if the later is removed, no one will fuss too 
much about it ( except, possibly, you ).

Alex

Laszlo Horvath  > wrote:
>
>Kedves jovendobeli Foldesur:
>
>Van a kaliforniai Szilikon Volgyben egy volt magyar foldes ur, Toth Jozsi 
>bacsi a neve, aki biztos eladna telket/birtokat amit valamikor a 
>bolsevikok kisajatitottak, de most, hala Istennek, a bolsevikok hivatalos 

Hah, very funny!  Latom mar mas is tudja ertekelni a silicon humort.
En pl. mar elore drukkolok, hogy milyen uj, ketbalkezes otlettel jon elo
onnan valaki.  Es eddig meg ritkan csalodtam.  Szoval igy is lehet azt
nezni.

PJ

Archive-name: hungarian/broadcast
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: broadcast
Last-modified: 1996/06/29
Version: 0.82
Posting-Frequency: every twenty days

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

 Many thanks go to Andy Vadasz and Peter Soltesz, who compiled much of
the information shown here. This file is being maintained at the
archive <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/HU-broadcast.txt>;. A similar
compendium is also available from the HAL archives
<ftp://mineral.umd.edu/pub/hungary/docs/North_Am_Hun_Language_Broadcasts>
<http://mineral.umd.edu/hungary/ftp/docs/North_Am_Hun_Language_Broadcasts>;,
with more related material under <http://mineral.umd.edu/hir/Entertainment/>;.

 The programme by the Radio Petofi is available real-time simulcast via
the Internet (the first such national broadcast according to them):
<http://www.petofi.enet.hu/reala.html>; (note that this adress is at
'enet.hu', signifying E-NET, which is distinct from 'eunet.hu' where
some other resources are to be found). That page has all the
information needed to get the sofware handling the 'realaudio' format,
or one can go straight to the source at <http://www.realaudio.com>;.

 Realaudio format recorded broadcast segments for some HungarianRadio
programmes are available thru <http://www.wrn.org/stations/hungary.html>;. 
The homepage for Radio Budapest (the external service of Hungarian
Radio) is at <http://www.eunet.hu/radio/>; - they have a lot of textual
information, including schedules and frequency tables for worldwide
broadcast.

 Computer-readable Hungarian language broadcast material from the Voice
of America is found under <http://www.voa.gov/programs/audio/>;; they
have other computer audio file formats for download beside realaudio as
well.

 Here is a listing of Hungarian language broadcasts (as of 28 May
1996), collected by Peter Soltesz <mailto:>.
Note that the Hungarian language broadcast of the Radio Free Europe
(which was shown in the original version I posted) has been
discontinued sometime in '95! Also, the Voice of America beam is
transmitted from outside America and can't be received there (despite
the earlier listing showing them with their nominal Washington, D.C.
location). However their Web server makes computer-readable recordings
available, as shown in the paragraph above.  I dropped the VOA entries
from here - for the full schedules see
<gopher://gopher.voa.gov/00/voa-sked/hungarian-pgms> and for all the
frequencies <gopher://gopher.voa.gov/00/voa-sked/langs-and-freqs>
(these files can be accessed thru <http://www.voa.gov>; as well as from
<ftp://ftp.voa.gov/>).

<<< Text version of database file follows: >>>
  ID, Type, FREQ, City, ST, PROG, DAY, Time, Address, Tel, Fax 
 KTYM , AM ,, INGLEWOOD , CA ,1,,,,,
 WVOF , FM ,, FAIRFIELD , CT ,2,,,,,
 WNDU , AM ,, SOUTH BEND , IN ,1,,,,,
 WSBT , AM ,, SOUTH BEND , IN ,1,,,,,
 WRSU , FM ,, NEW BRUNSWICK , NJ ,1,,,,,
 WCSB , FM ,, CLEVELAND , OH ,1,,,,,
 WKTX , AM ,, CORTLAND , OH ,12,,,,,
 WKTL , FM ,, STRUTHERS , OH ,1,,,,,
 WELW , AM ,, WILLOUGHBY-EASTLAKE , OH ,1,,,,,
 WIBF , FM ,, JENKINTOWN , PA ,1,,,,,
 WMZK , AM , 680 , DETROIT , MI ,1, FRI , 2100-2200 ,,,
 WNYE , TV , 25 , NEW YORK , NY ,0.5, SAT , 1500-1530 ,,,
 TCI , CABLE ,, WESTCHESTER County , NY ,,,,,,
      , AM , 1380 , NEW YORK , NY ,1, SUN , 1200-1300 ,,,
 WQRP , FM ,, DAYTON , OH ,3, SUN , 0900-1200 ,,,
 WNVC , TV , 56 , FALLS CHURCH , VA ,0.5, SAT , 0800-0830 ,, 1-703-698-9682 ,
 CKJS , AM , 810 , WINNIPEG, MANITOBA , CN ,0.5, SAT , 2000-2030 ,, 1-204-477-1
221 ,
      , FM , 105.9 , NEW YORK , NY ,2, SUN , 1200-1400 ,,,
      , SW , 25 m ,, PA ,0.25, TH , 1645-1700 ,,,
 TELSTAR , SAT , 22 ,, NA ,,,,,,
 GALAXY-4 , SAT , 23 ,, NA ,0.5, M-F , 1930-200 ,,,
 GALAXY-4 , SAT , 23 ,, NA ,0.5, SAT , 1730-1800 ,,,
 ASC-1 , SAT , 23 ,, NA ,0,,,,,
 VATICANA , SW ,,, IT ,0,,,,,
 CBN , SAT ,,, NA ,0,,,,,
 CBC , SW ,, TORONTO , CD ,,,,,,
 BBC , SW ,, LONDON , UK ,,,,,,
     , SW , 3250 , BIRMINGHAM , AL ,1, D , 0700-0755 ,,,
          ,, 830 , CLEVELAND , OH ,,,,,,
 MAGYAR RA. , SW , VARIES , BUDAPEST , HU ,0, D ,,,,
 BUDAPEST , SW , VARIES , BUDAPEST , HU ,0, D ,,,,
 DEUTSCHE W , SW ,,, GE ,0,,,,,
 WCPN , FM , 90.3 , CLEVELAND , OH ,1,,,,,

<<< end of database listing >>>

 Andy Vadasz <mailto:> posted the following:
+In a May 14 message, I reported (in part):
+
+> their current 9870 kHz will change to 9840 kHz starting May.21. Not clear
+>whether the change is for the entire 3 hour transmission (including
+>Hungarian and English language programs). 
+
+More recently the new arrangement has been posted on the "Radio Budapest"
+webpage: http://www.eunet.hu/radio/   To summarize. the North America beam
+is broadcast on 9840 and 11870 kHz with the following breakdown
+
+Starting time (UTC)     Language    Beam orientation
+00:00                   Hungarian    N.America East
+01:00                   English      N.America East
+01:30                   Hungarian    N.America West
+02:30                   English      N.America West
+
+In my area (Northern Virginia) the first two segments have been fair to good
+on 9840 kHz.

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!

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On Fri, 28 Jun 1996, Laszlo Horvath wrote:
> I hope that the rest of you too was upset by what
> the sickman of AOL, Megorov, has done. 

 Some of us, hopefully most, figured that his/its main aim is to make us
upset, and appropriately ignored him/it. 

>He has exercised censorship.
 No, he/it didn't. If you mean that his/its goal is to render the attacked
groups useless, that's probably true - but he/it can not succeed without
the cooperation of the participants. 

> I am not technically competent to figure out how Megorov
> has done the contributions.

 With forgeries. This is Usenet ;-<. Yawn...
 You seem to have misinterpreted what happened: rather than "replacing" 
real contributors messages, the flame-bot merely reposted his/its crap
under others' names. While this is a childish trick, being as it is quite
transparent to most readers it's hardly a major abuse to work up a lather
over. Now if/when he reposts more than 20 essentially identical copies of
that silly piece, that's called a spam and is recognised as abuse (AOL may
actually consider lower limits). 

 Incidentally, if you really feel like needing to complain, it's better
addressed to AOL's "Internet Feedback/Response/Information Team" (to whom
I am copying this message - see their address in the header) than to
'postmaster' which is supposed to be a technical contact. 'MEGorov' did
indeed start via personal email bothering individuals who post to the
newsgroup and/or the Hungary list - since his/its letters were mere copies
of the same offensive "database" entries he/it made up and is posting
around, and not bona fide communications (and I believe he started
repeating them - I've got multiple copies already), that may look like
harassment. 
 But at this point I still think ignoring him is the best cure.

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!



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Ivan Marinov > wrote:

>Judith Toth wrote:
> 
>> NEM VAGYOK TIRPAK. (Ezt uzenem a biblias Ivannak
>> a tuloldalra!)

>Nem szegyen az, ha valaki szlovak, nem szegyen. Az en dednagyapam (csak 
>az egyik) is ugyanarrol a videkrol szarmazik, bar o nem volt szlovak.

>Ivan
=============
Ivannak!
Orulok, hogy megtalalta az uzenetet. Valoban nem szegyen az, ha valaki
AKARMINEK is szuletett. De On, kedves biblias ur olyan serto jelzo
tarsasagaban hasznalta a TIRPAk szot, amit itt most nem irok le, mert
nem turi az Internet-festek! Csak azon csodalkozom, hogy On aki
bibliat forgat es folyton  idezget belole, ilyen szavakat kuldozget
E-mailen ismeretlen szemelyeknek. - Nem tudna valahogy  jobban
hasznositani az idejet az emberiseg erdekeben? 
ungvari Toth Judit
=============

On 27 Jun 1996 08:18:06 GMT,  (Andras Kornai) wrote:

>Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian,soc.culture.magyar
>Subject: Re: Just how bad was communism morally?

>
>In article >,  > wrote:
>
>>I've seen a gradual
>>shift of the typical Hungarian Internetter over the last 6/7 years from
>>mostly the children of the former Communist era elite (who were the
>>first in seizing Western study opportunities) 
----- snip ----------------------------------------------------------

>good to see you riding your favorite hobby horse! Having been labelled
>"Ka1da1rgyerek" and "Ka1da1rve1do3" often enough I guess I'm an official
>representative of the "Ka1da1r Jugend". My background is no secret: I grew up
>on Ro1zsadomb, and never tried to hide the fact. Nor did, to the best of my
>knowledge, anybody else in the same group, a point that I shall return to
>below.
>
------------------- snip ---------------------------------------------
>Andra1s Kornai

It is uncanny how accurate Joe Pannon was with his description of the
Kadar Jungen.

The lengthier your 'defenses' are, the more proof you provide that Mr.
Pannon was right on target.

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Andrew Rozsa 
> =============================================================
      Andrew J. Rozsa - Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 < OR >          
> -------------------------------------------------------------
          Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.            
> =============================================================

>>>Mai oameni buni, ma tot intreb cind o sa incetati odata cu polemica 
asta 
>>>sterila si fara sens intre romani si maghiari ?
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Why the the ice cream licked back? ...
Because the dumpling ate the duck, too.


(Between you and me... your language really looks bad)

<<<Never mind the dog, BEWARE of my WIFE! >>>
... Rumanian proverb ...

Dr. Laszlo

T.M.Lutas > wrote:
>
>OK, not in shorthand this time. The PNT-cd is the Partidul National Taranist -
 
>crestin si democrat (National Peasant Party - christian democrat). It is the 
>foremost center-right opposition party and the party I have chosen to support.
>PNT-cd structure refers to officers and legal organizations that are 
>recognized as being part of the official party. You can be a sympathizer 

Thanks, it makes much more sense to me now.
>
>No actually we don't know that Wally Keeler is not Romanian unless some 
>other 'reputable' SCR people actually went and verified this. The 

Oh come now!  
You've just told me you were with the National Peasant Party, so why
pretend now to be member of the Know-Nothing Party!  I think there are
some things even on Internet that we can safely eliminate, and that's
Wally being a Romanian.

>Given a person and a desire to persecute, I would suspect that you could 
>get that person fired just as easily off the internet as on. I'd have to 
>hear the case but if it was a government worker fired for private speech 
>using his own resources on his own time, he's got a hell of a lawsuit there.

The problem is that he fired off many of his posts from his .gov account
and that's what was used against him.  Even though according to him,
virtually all his coworkers do it.  So he was singled out for the
content of his posts.

>I've been threatened with lawsuit by leftists before. It never stopped me, 
>it never will. Besides, I'm too poor to sue.

They don't need to sue you if they can threaten your livelyhood.

Joe

On Tue, 25 Jun 1996, Penio Penev wrote:

> | 
> | The fetus is not a human being because it depends on the woman's 
> | organism. As such, it is not a human being.
> 
> The one-week baby is not a human being because it depends o the
> organism of its parents/guardians.  As such, it is not a human being
> and deserves to die.  

No, it does not. It depends on their social care but not on their bodies. 
You can take the baby away, feed it artificially and it will live. A 
fetus cannot do that.

> | > exterminate yourselves instead of killing innocent little children? Do 
> | 
> | Fetuses are *not* little children. Stop, please!
> 
> As well as adults are *not* little children, which, of course, does
> not give us the right to kill adults.  Or does it?

Chickens are *not* little children, so, perhaps, you will stop eating 
chickens right now?

> 
> | You Christians are concerned with keeping Christianity alive so that you 
> | can exercise your power and suppress anyone who dares to question your 
> | bullshit.
> 
> Killing human beings is something that has been outlawed not only by
> the Christian religion, but rather by all religions that sprouted from
> the Old Testament, as well as meny others.  And we live in the world,
> created by exactly those religions.

It is the world that created the religions ( making some brainwashed 
people feel better, which is fine with me, unless they impose their 
illusions on the others ) and *not* the religions who created the world. 
The world existed long, long time ago before the Old Testament appeared.


Alex

Is there somewhere where I can find out the corresponding names of 
Transylvanian towns in Romanian and Hungarian?  I just got back from 
Budapest, and when I tried to take a bus from Budapest to Transylvania, I 
couldn't decipher the timetable, since I only knew the names of the towns 
in Romanian, and often the names are different enough that I can't really 
tell (about the only ones I could decipher were Brasso' and Temesva'r).  
I won't be going back to Europe for a while, but it would help me a lot 
for the next time.

Akira Negi

 (Laszlo Balogh) wrote:

>>>>Mai oameni buni, ma tot intreb cind o sa incetati odata cu polemica 
>>>>asta sterila si fara sens intre romani si maghiari ?

>(Between you and me... your language really looks bad)

You know what they say: beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
Anyhow, your claim might have some value in the Moronland, that is,
just between you and you.

><<<Never mind the dog, BEWARE of my WIFE! >>>

>Dr. Laszlo

Oh, I see ! You got a "Dr." title for being able to memorize the
wisdom words of your father's bumper sticker?

Regards,

Liviu Iordache

P.S. I hope Matyas made a special folder  in his archive of
nationalistic crap. Its label should read "Dr.[sic!] Laszlo--The
Fun(ar)garian"

 (Akira Negi) wrote:
>
>Is there somewhere where I can find out the corresponding names of 
>Transylvanian towns in Romanian and Hungarian?  I just got back from 
>Budapest, and when I tried to take a bus from Budapest to Transylvania, 
I 
>couldn't decipher the timetable, since I only knew the names of the 
towns 
>in Romanian, and often the names are different enough that I can't 
really 
>tell (about the only ones I could decipher were Brasso' and Temesva'r).  

>I won't be going back to Europe for a while, but it would help me a lot 

>for the next time.
>
>Akira Negi

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Try any  maps, showing, pre World War I Europe.

 <<<Never mind the dog, BEWARE of my Wife!>>> ...Ancient (XIX th 
Century)
                                                                          
           Rumanian proverb ...
                                                                          
           

Dr. Laszlo >

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

In article >,  says...

>Is there somewhere where I can find out the corresponding names of 
>Transylvanian towns in Romanian and Hungarian?  

Any current Hungarian road atlas of Europe will give both the Romanian 
and Hungarian versions of place names in Transylvania.

--
 George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
 Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy **** NW London Computer Club **** ICPUG

Judith Toth wrote:

> Ivannak!
> Orulok, hogy megtalalta az uzenetet. Valoban nem szegyen az, ha valaki
> AKARMINEK is szuletett. De On, kedves biblias ur olyan serto jelzo
> tarsasagaban hasznalta a TIRPAk szot, amit itt most nem irok le, mert
> nem turi az Internet-festek! Csak azon csodalkozom, hogy On aki
> bibliat forgat es folyton  idezget belole, ilyen szavakat kuldozget
> E-mailen ismeretlen szemelyeknek. - Nem tudna valahogy  jobban
> hasznositani az idejet az emberiseg erdekeben?
> ungvari Toth Judit
> =============

Tulajdonkeppen az egesz fasiszta sajtotema nem nagyon erdekel, de nem 
birom nem megkerdezni vajon honnan meriti az erkolcsi toket egy 
hungarista szocso ahhoz, hogy engem kritizaljon... A hungaristak 
kozismerten a vadallatok erkolcsi szintjen allnak, szoval tenyleg nem 
ertem... 

Valaszt nem varok.

Ivan