I love baking my own bread and I would like to build a brick oven
(kemence) in my back yard. Does anybody have one of these wonderful
facilities or knows how to build one?
Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Jozsi Udvarhelyi Hill

In article >, SorG Farkas
> says:
>
>I stand corrected, indeed the working poor do not have health insurance. I
>do not remember the numbers, but during the Hillary-plan debate it occured
>to me that it would be much less expensive than the proposed plan to
>increase taxation by the amount required to insure the working poor and just
>give them the money to buy their own insurance.
>I am and always will be opposed to government managed health insurance. It
>never worked in Eastern Europe, it is on the brink of bankruptcy everywhere,
>neither the doctors, nor the patients like it.

Most Britons would find your opposition to government managed health care
nothing short of amazing. In the UK we have a National Health Service paid
for out of taxes/obligatory insurance payments that gives workers and
unemployed alike basic care by general practitioners and hospitals. Those
who can afford it pay for private health care. The NHS is far from perfect
(being the subject of hot political debate concerning mismanagement and
the ditribution of funds, etc) but any any politician even giving an hint
that he would do away with the NHS and make health care go largely private
(a la US) would be soon looking for another job over here (the present Tory
government is stealthily closing *inefficient* hospitals and capping pay
and spending everywhere except for highly paid fat-cat managing directors,
etc. guess who will not win the next election.)

>I agree with Mrs. Fa'bos-Becker about the lack of sufficient work in the
>computerized patient record. A lot of work is being done in the field, and
>based on what I know about the subject  I expect that within the next decade
>things will change drastically.
>Last time I was in the hospital, the plastic bracelet they attached to me
>wrist had my name and a bar code on it. Since no one scanned it (while I was
>awake) I assume they only use it in the morgue. It's a good start (or end?:-).

The subject of computerized patient data is a hot potato in the UK right
now with the medical profession in a stand-off with the government over
the access of such data. Doctors want the info to be completely private
and the government have suggested that other government bodies should
have access. No implementation of the plan is possible until this battle
is resolved.

Keep posting comments/ info/ criticisms, please.

Regards,

George

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
Independent Commodore Products Users Group * Commodore=64 stuff wanted
*********** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list ***********

Dear Jozsi -

Sajnos en nem tudok segiteni, de megkerlek ha kapsz valami useful tanacsot,
legy szives forward egy copyt.

Koszonettel:

Sandor

At 11:28 AM 3/3/96 GMT, George Szaszvari  wrote:

>Most Britons would find your opposition to government managed health care
>nothing short of amazing.

Probably they would also find my opposition to monarchy nothing short of
amazing;-). More seriously, once a system is intrenched, people are scared
of a different one, although they acknowledge the problems with the status
quo. And although most recognize that
> The NHS is far from perfect
The Labour (observe the spelling) Party winning the elections will not solve
the problems. Problems with
>mismanagement and
>the distribution of funds,
did not start with the Tories and will not end with the opposition taking
over. It is an inherent part of any government run system, or I would take
it one step further, any large system that is not manageable.

Let me throw in another reason why I am so opposed to it: once the
government takes over, all health care workers become civil service
emplyees. For some strange reason (it must be the water-or the total job
security) those employees don't like to work as hard as their employers and
get benefits that exceed their empoyers' (the taxpayers). Show me another
place of employment where the employee gets better benefits than the employer.

>The subject of computerized patient data is a hot potato in the UK right
>now with the medical profession in a stand-off with the government over
>the access of such data. Doctors want the info to be completely private
>and the government have suggested that other government bodies should
>have access. No implementation of the plan is possible until this battle
>is resolved.

Here is another reason why government control is not indicated. You just
cannot trust them to safeguard your private data and if they mishandle it
you cannot even sue them. To avoid the problem, the system is kept
inefficient and more expensive. No problem, the taxpayer's pocket is
endlessly deep and there is no competition.

Gabor D. Farkas

I am a student at Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia.
Last year, while an exchange student in Hungary, I participated in
several Dance Houses and I have been able to get our international club
interested in holding one.  I am looking for a Hungarian dance group, or
evemn one or two people who are interested in coming to run the house, ie.
supply the music, teach different steps and even show some dances.  We
will, of course, take care of the building, admission, refreshments,
etc.  At this point we don't have any dates, we are just exploring our
options.  The group needs to be based somewhere in Virginia, or this
area, no more than a day's drive or so.  We are located about
an hour north of Roanoke on Route 81.

Ko:szo:nettel,
Bill Overbaugh

At 12:33 PM 3/3/96 -0500, Gabor D. Farkas wrote:

>Let me throw in another reason why I am so opposed to it: once the
>government takes over, all health care workers become civil service
>emplyees. For some strange reason (it must be the water-or the total job
>security) those employees don't like to work as hard as their employers and
>get benefits that exceed their empoyers' (the taxpayers). Show me another
>place of employment where the employee gets better benefits than the >employer
.

Gabor,

You and I have some (perhaps very little!) money in the bank.  The bank uses
your, mine, and everyones money, to make money.  We employ the bank
president and stock holders much the same way as we employ civil servents.
Guess what?  The bank presidents and major stock holders get much, much
better pay and benefits than I'll ever get.  And I think I work quite hard!
Why do you take such a hard line against only one segment of the people we
employ?

Joe Szalai

You've raised some valid concerns, and I'll do my best to try and answer
them.  Rather than try to recopy all the recopies, however, I'll try to
focus on the main questions.  I hope that is acceptable?

Ok, first re: poor beaten up Badiny at this point.  His book wasn't confined
to linguistics comparisons, but also included archeological artifacts, also.
As an integrated discipline theoretical book, his book and research itself
is a rarity outside of the fields of West European and Mediterranean-Indo
European anthropology.  Professor Wright of the University of Michigan, in
1989, without mentioning Badiny at all noted this--and has not been refuted.
(I did check "letters", etc. in subsequent issues of "Archeology" magazine.)

However, you are right, that the issue of whether or not Sumerian is even
related to Hungarian, itself, is debatable as to its modern importance.  You
would like to see modern Hungarian itself promoted and funding toward that,
especially in countries with Hungarian minorities.

For some years, just in the U.S., now, I have quite literally been trying to
get more funding for East Central European languages--as related to the best
emerging market existing right now and for the immediate future.  The answer
I have consistently received from those who have the most money, currently
for such things, is "why should we bother--especially for Hungary and
Hungarians?  Individually, these are all just little countries.  The Slavic
languages are all more or less related to Russian, and we can probably make
do for them with Russian and a few tourist dictionaries to get the flavor of
the variations.  Russian, is the main language for the Slavic countries.
Hungary? Forget about it, it's too small and too different.  It doesn't even
belong in Europe, and isn't related to anything else that we can see is
significant.  They should just learn English and German and Russian, if they
want to do business or have any place in the  modern political order.  It's
up to them to come to us.  Besides, all these nations were just barbarians
for a long time, and were backward in every way until the great powers
forced them to look forward.  They have nothing in their past to contribute
to our present and future."  You want to know what really depressed me?  I
heard even wealthy Hungarian Americans telling me this...

Even Hungarian Americans do not contribute much to Hungarian classes in
language, history and culture in the U.S..  As just one example: of the 9
major colleges in the San Francisco Bay area (CSU system, UC system,
Stanford, etc.), and the more than 50,000 known Hungarian American
families--most of whom do indeed have incomes well above the median, there
is but one college that has Hungarian classes, and history and culture
classes--Berkeley, and only sporadically offered, even at that.  There are 2
million persons of predominantly Hungarian descent in the U.S. alone.  Again
most are older, and have family incomes well above the U.S. median.  They
are concentrated for the most part in larger, wealthier areas of this
country, besides.  Yet fewer than 6 colleges have even sporadic classes
offered similar to what is done at Berkeley.

If I, or anyone else, is to convince anyone that modern Hungarian language
out to be either studied--or even preserved--the people who have the funds
to  contribute must be convinced--on their own terms--that there is value to
them in this idea.  That hasn't been done yet.

It is not so important that _any_ non-West European or Mediterranean nation
have any _particular_ ancient heritage, but that we can develop an attitude
that all nations, reasonably, probably do have ancient heritages and have
not always just been inferior, less evolved peoples; that there is an ebb
and flow, or cycle of ethnic or national energies, just as there is for
individual lives within them.  Nations and ethnicities are made up of
people.  They cannot but at least partly reflect the characteristics in
aggregate, of the individual components.

Many professors in many disciplines say over and over in their classes, "one
must learn from the past to understand the present and prepare for the
future."  Santayana, as a philosopher, did not have unique thinking in this
regard.  The question is _whose past_?  Is any past more important than any
other, really?  If we really want a smorgasbord of as complete as options as
can be for the political, social and economic future--like the maximum
possible genetic diversity is now desireable for the preservation of animal
species, or finding new drugs for illnesses--then is it not important to
learn what is truly complete history--and its relationships?  There are
plenty of people only to willing to fund the zillionth expedition for yet
another Roman town or villa, or another sunken Greek ship, or another
Egyptian tomb, or another Moche, or Toltec, or Han, or T'ang, or Maurya
tomb.  The pre-Western, pre-Mediterranean Indo European civilizations, and
the big "glamor" civilizations are well covered.  But not the little
guys--the taxus yews--of the human world of diversity.  And like the taxus
yews, or any number of other overlooked forest species, Hungarians as among
the smallest of the small--and among the least respected by the "larger" and
more numerous, are in danger of extinction.

It has been said by some on this net, that the majority of Hungarians are
doing well--looking to a future of integration with the EC and NATO and all,
and forgetting their painful past.  That we all should do the same.  My
father would agree:  We should indeed be nothing more than good little
Americans, or good little "Europeans."  That's why he washed out my mouth
when I was little with Ivory soap when I tried to repeat and practice
Hungarian words I'd learned from my grandmother.  Forget about Hungary and
any Hungarian ancestry, whatever that may be.  It isn't important any
more--it doesn't really exist any more...

My non-Hungarian mother died of ovarian cancer.  The taxus yew might have
helped.  But it's properties weren't really "discovered" and a method
developed for synthesizing this rare extraction until several years after
she died.  I cannot help but remember how a tree that is an overlooked
minority, and fast headed to extinction in the old-growth American forests
might have saved her life--and that of many other women, but didn't because
for so long, it was considered almost a "waste" tree.  I also tend to
believe the physical laws of the universe--also apply to human conditions.
We don't exist outside those laws.  So it is for trees, it is for the values
of the unique qualities--and heritages of human beings.

Yes, I will be happy to someday fund preserving and teaching the Hungarian
language.  However, whatever I have won't be enough in itself, and still
must be matched by other donors--and then the universities, and
non-Hungarian nations must still be convinced there will be enough students
willing to learn because there is some future value in it all.  I believe
for funding to  work, first the avenues of acceptance of what it is for,
must be put into place.  Those do not yet exist.  Do you really think the
nations of Romanian and Slovakia are going to accept--and really use--any
money I might use to teach Hungarian in those countries, when so few
colleges in the U.S. do--and so few Hungarian Americans care, even here?

To somewhat change the subject, though, Andras, when are we going to get
together for lunch--maybe we could include Fr. Nemeth from the Woodside
Priory School.  The reason I thought of that, is unfortunately he is one of
those recently who lamented the lack of concern from even our Hungarian
community about funding courses even at his school which also has a
Hungarian Augustinian monastery attached--and the monks--like Fr. Nemeth
teach at the school.  I was trying to figure out almost 2 years ago how to
make a donation  and elicit enough matching funds to do this there.  It
didnt' work.  Like Fr. Nemeth, I never heard enough interest.  It was very
discouraging.  So, I'm headed there anyway soon, with a modest donation for
more science equipment, and some information about where they can get some
more computers at a low cost.  I also want to follow up on George
Szaszvari's idea of a chess students' exchange.  Want to join me?

Anyhow, I've also got another idea for a multi-ethnic performing arts
center, with Dennis Fong.  He and I have worked together in a few situations
in the past.  I think very realistically that once I can get my husband's
company to go public--or be bought out, with the usual stock exchange, that
we can pull that off.  He's prepared to be one of the matching funder's and
has some connections for the land.  The center would have stages and
practice halls for Asian, East Central European, and other performing arts
groups--local and international visiting troupes; room for galleries and
shops of arts, and multi-ethnic restaurants as well.  About $500,000 to $1
million from my side would make it happen, and based upon the last start up
company, that's real doable, in the next few years.  I've already been over
this a lot with Dennis--in fact you may even remember him mentioning this
idea as one he strongly supports in the "San Jose Mercury News" a few months
ago.

So, I hope, that although we might not fully agree on everything, that I've
managed to at least convince you I'm not totally rooted in just one unusual
idea or something; and that I actually do agree with you on some very
important things as well.   I do appreciate your questions, by the way.
Vive la diversite!  Life should not be an endless period of nothing but
mashed potatoes, day after day.  Bleeaah!  How dull that would be--I think
even paramecia live more interesting lives than that. :-)

Anyhow, I'll look forward to a call from you or another e-mail about an
availability for lunch soon--or dinner with Fr. Nemeth, or something?

Sincerely,


Cecilia L. Fa'bos-Becker
3273 B Rocky Water Lane
San Jose, CA, USA
tel: 408-223-6102
e-mail: 












At 09:04 PM 3/1/96 -0800, you wrote:
>> First I don't read Hungarian.  My father had nothing but contempt for his
>> history and background, and wished to bury it.
>I'm sorry to hear that. Will try to give an English summary if I can unearth
>the book.
>
>> Second, you are citing a Hungarian publication from a communist controlled
>> era.
>Indeed. But the fact that something was published in that era doesn't render
>it useless, and the arguments made by the author (Komoro1czy is the best
>Sumerologist in Hungary), which amount to pointing out basic methodological
>flaws as well as a large number of elementary errors, had nothing to do with
>communist ideology. The method of linguistic reconstruction that he is
>appealing to has been developed long before communism came to Eastern Europe.
>
>> >> >>"Thus we succeeded in proving that the Sumerian language did not die
>> out but
>> >> >>in fact, did survive in the scattered Hungarian language remains in the
>> >> >>Latin Chronicles Literature of the 10-12th centuries A.D."
>> >> >
>> >> >No Hungarian document survived from these centuries. Hungarian language
>> >> >remains of the following centuries are Hungarian language fregments and
> not
>> >> >Sumerian. Their grammatical structure is Finno-Ugric and so is their
>> >> >vocabulary.
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, but Dr. Badiny refers to several, the introduction to at least one
>> >> set of German translations of the Matthias Corvinus chronicles also refer
> to
>> >> some of the items going back to the first Arpad kings, ( I found this set
> at
>> >> the U of MN rare books archives), and the church at Tihany shows
tourists a
>> >> piece of about 12th century literature.
>> >Dr. Badiny has it wrong. The description of the situation given by Pe1ter
>> >Hidas (namely that only fragments survive from the period, and these are
>> >thoroughly Finno-Ugric, is quite correct, however much we might disagree
>> >about the prehistory of the language. Note also that this period is
>> >separated by millenia from the latest Sumerian material.
>> >
>> Yes the Hungarian documents are fragments, but the fragments do exist.  Also
>> Badiny compared the root words often of the oldest known Hungarian with the
>> Sumerian and listed a number of pages of the comparisons.
>Sure, but the oldest known Hungarian is separated from the Sumerian by
>thousands of years! Aside from the Halotti Besze1d which is conventionally
>dated at 1192, the very end of the period (10th-12th century) under
>discussion, all we have from Hungarian are sporadic words from a handful of
>documents whose language is Latin or sometimes Greek.
>
>To put the matter in perspective, we are talking about less than a couple of
>hundred words here, and a significant portion of these are place names which
>play very little role in tracing the genetic affiliation of languages for the
>simple reason that place names tend to persist in the new language. You
>wouldn't want to claim that English is genetically related to American Indian
>languages just because the map is full of words like Dakota...
>
>Halotti Besze1d, which is not only the first written Hungarian text also the
>first written Finno-Ugric text, doubles the number of words, and more
>importantly, adds significant information about the phonology, morphology, and
>syntax of the early language.  Even if we extend the period under discussion
>to the beginning of the 15th century, there are only a few more fragments, and
>a few more coherent documents, such as the O1magyar Ma1ria-siralom (around
>1300), the Gyulafehe1rva1r Lines, and the Ko2nigsberg Fragment. The Schla2gli
>Wordlist (dated around 1405), with its 2,140 Hungarian words, has far more
>etymologically relevant information than all the material from earlier periods
>combined. So we begin to get on solid ground at the beginning of the 15th
>century, but all the pre-16th century Hungarian material that survives
>could still be printed in one rather slim volume!
>
>Compare Beowulf to Chaucer and you will see the tremendous difference five-six
>hundred years can make -- without the benefit of a written record it would be
>hard to believe they are the same language at all.  Relating Sumerian and
>Hungarian tries to bridge the gap not of half a millenium but several
>millenia, and without the benefit of a written record. This is not a
>scientific undertaking, much as building a very large pot for boiling water
>will not get you to 424 Farenheit, you will just get more water at 212. The
>methods of historical linguistics simply cannot bridge a time gap that big.
>
>The study of Sumerian is quite a complicated matter in itself -- the earliest
>written records are from a period when the language was no longer in active
>use outside ritual situations, much like Latin in medeival Europe. Its study
>is deeply intertwined with that of Akkadian, a Semitic language that died out
>millenea ago without leaving descendants (other than Hungarian of course:-).
>To believe that we can reach across the millenia (the latest surviving
>Akkadian material is from around 13th century BC) and relate these to
>Hungarian, is a pipe dream.
>
>> >now dismissing, and have always dismissed, the Sumer-Magyar connection as
>> >absolute nonsense.
>> Can you post part of a 1990's proceedings of the Society of Sumerologists as
>> to this?  I was told by professors at several U.S. universities that this is
>> the most authoritative body.
>I will make inquiries as to the most authoritative body, and will try to
>summarize their opinion, if indeed they have a collective one.
>
>> Also, how do you explain how so many esteemed
>> anthropologists, then could continue to write things contradicting McNeish
>> for 20 years, then finally start changing their writings?
>I have no idea -- scientific theories change all the time. But methods change
>far less often, physicists still use the ones pioneered by Bacon and Galileo,
>and historical linguists still used the ones pioneered by Jones and Bopp. If
>there'd been a methodological revolution that suddenly extends the powers of
>linguistics by a factor of five I'd know about it.
>
>> Again, after literally seeing what happened with the McNeish-Puleston, etc.
>> research, I'll withhold my judgement at least another 20 years. I have some
>> first hand memories of the tectonic plate discussions, also...  It's been my
>> experience that career academics are just as human as the rest of us.
>Yup, they are.
>
>> As I told someone else, however, if my husband's blasted company ever goes
>> public, I darned well intend to finance a really comprehensive study--by the
>> "creme de la creme" of every darned discipline I can think of to try to
>> expedite an end to this and few other related questions and claims.  I've
>> done some modest funding of a few other things, so it's not a new habit, and
>> I do find scientific procedure fascinating.  Even at the age of 12, I used
>> to keep copious notes of my rocketry and mineralogy experiments--even
>> measured the depth of the craters in my ceiling where the corks and test
>> tubes periodically embedded themselves.  I'm not going to "buy proof of an
>> opinion"  I darned well want the truth, but at least by going after it
>> myself, whatever it turns out to be I can say I did pursue the truth.
>>
>> I may have to discard Badiny, et al in the future, but it is my right to
>> hold the opinion that it may be premature to do so now, based upon my own
>> experience of similar situations in both the anthropology and geology fields
.
>Hungarian linguistics is in tremendous need of support. If you are a
>patron of the sciences I'd much rather direct your generosity towards
>problems relevant today, ranging from spelling reform to more study of
>Hungarian in the neighboring countries, to better dictionaries and machine
>translation tools, etc. etc. than to something that is a rather idle object
>of curiosity. Let's suppose Hungarian is related to Sumerian. What difference
>does this make in the neighboring countries, where Hungarian is dying out,
>in the classroom, where a better spelling could help staving off the danger of
>illiteracy, in the technical fields, where the lack of productivity tools
>for translators mean that more and more technical material is available
>only in English, so that eventually higher learning will no longer be
>accessible through Hungarian, etc. etc.? What difference would it make if
>Hungarian turns out not to be related to Sumerian?
>
>Andra1s Kornai
>
>
N0BBS, Cecilia L. Fabos-Becker -  - San Jose, CA

In article >, SorG Farkas
> says:
>
>At 11:28 AM 3/3/96 GMT, George Szaszvari  wrote:
>
>>Most Britons would find your opposition to government managed health care
>>nothing short of amazing.
>
>Probably they would also find my opposition to monarchy nothing short of
>amazing;-).

There is, in fact, smiley notwithstanding :-) a growing feeling in the UK
that the monarchy has long outlived its usefulness. Expect some serious
changes in how the British monarchy go about their business before the
end of the century. HRH The Queen even recently started to pay tax on some
Her Majesty's enormous wealth (gasp)...

>More seriously, once a system is intrenched, people are scared
>of a different one, although they acknowledge the problems with the status
>quo. And although most recognize that The NHS is far from perfect.

>The Labour (observe the spelling)

Very good! ;-)

>...Party winning the elections will not solve the problems.

Of course! Blair's Labour Party is sarcastically known as *Tory Lite*
(I don't/won't vote Labour, anyway.)

>                                                    .....Problems with
>mismanagement and the distribution of funds, did not start with the Tories
>and will not end with the opposition taking over. It is an inherent part
>of any government run system, or I would take it one step further, any
>large system that is not manageable.
>Let me throw in another reason why I am so opposed to it: once the
>government takes over, all health care workers become civil service
>emplyees. For some strange reason (it must be the water-or the total job
>security) those employees don't like to work as hard as their employers and
>get benefits that exceed their empoyers' (the taxpayers). Show me another
>place of employment where the employee gets better benefits than the employer.

Yes, I understand and sympathize with this argument in most other areas,
but I'm not entirely persuaded about applying it totally to an essential
service like the medical professional (when one believes in the necessity
of an NHS, that is.)

Note that doctors are not Civil Servants, but are *contracted* by the NHS.
Nurses and other hospital/medical workers in the NHS are at the mercy of
the government, though. Nevertheless, a lot of GPs are getting fed-up with
having to deal with the NHS and many are moving into totally private
practice.

>>The subject of computerized patient data is a hot potato in the UK right
>>now with the medical profession in a stand-off with the government over
>>the access of such data. Doctors want the info to be completely private
>>and the government have suggested that other government bodies should
>>have access. No implementation of the plan is possible until this battle
>>is resolved.
>
>Here is another reason why government control is not indicated. You just
>cannot trust them to safeguard your private data and if they mishandle it
>you cannot even sue them.

Yeah, I know! The latest horror story about Government untrustworthiness
is that ministers were party to selling munitions (that were used against
their own troops) to Iraq on the eve of the Gulf War and despite a big
inquiry (and the detention of scapegoated businessmen) those ministers
(members of *the Old Boy Network*) seem to have gotten away with it. Could
this happen in the US?

BTW, should Cecilia be reading this, could she let me know whether she
received my e-mail of a couple of days ago? God bless you!

Regards

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
Independent Commodore Products Users Group * Commodore=64 stuff wanted
*********** Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list ***********

Joe,

At 02:04 PM 3/3/96 -0500, you wrote:

>You and I have some (perhaps very little!

Speak for yourself;-))))))

> money in the bank.  The bank uses
>your, mine, and everyones money, to make money.  We employ the bank
>president and stock holders much the

> same way as we employ civil servents.

Here is where we disagree. If I don't like my bank, I can switch to another
one. If I don't like the services I get from the government, if I am lucky I
can elect another government that may change the laws that protect those who
provide the lousy service. Chances are this will not happen because the
providers of the lousy service (and their labor unions) have such well
organized lobbies.

>Guess what?  The bank presidents and major stock holders get much, much
>better pay and benefits than I'll ever get.

I assume you are a civil servant. No one stopped you from becoming a bank
president or a major stock holder. You made a choice.

>And I think I work quite hard!

There are exceptions to every rule. However, I would like to compare the
hours worked by the average civil servant with those of a similarly employed
private employee.

>Why do you take such a hard line against only one segment of the people we
>employ?

We employ civil servants (pay their salaries). We buy from others (banks,
etc.), or use them as consultants. Even the IRS considers the two categories
very differently.

Gabor D. Farkas

There will be a round table discussion on CHILDREN OF THE 1956
GENERATION - or - WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE BRITISH AND HUNGARIAN?
on Thursday 28 March, at 7.30 at the Lutheran Church House near
Earls Court. Entrance fee 3 pounds and STUDENT CONCESSION 2
pounds. Please e-mail me for any further information.
Regards, Ferenc Schustek

The British Hungarian Fellowship announces a talk by Peter A Bod,
         Director, European Bank of Reconstruction and Development
         (London), formerly Minister in the Antall cabinet. It will take
         place on Tuesday 12 March, at 7.30 at the Lutheran Church House, 8
         Collingham Gardens, LONDON SW5 0HW (nearest tube: Earls Court).
         The Talk is entitled: FROM SHOWCASE TO LAGGARD, Reflections on the
         Hungarian Economy. In the chair, Laszlo Peter, Professor of
         Hungarian history (retired).
         All are cordially invited. Entrance fee for guests is 3 pounds at
         the door and the talk is followed by a wine and cheese reception.
         Please e-mail me for any further information.
         Rgds Ferenc Schustek

Jozsi Udvarhelyi Hill wrote:

> I love baking my own bread and I would like to build a brick oven
> (kemence) in my back yard. Does anybody have one of these wonderful
> facilities or knows how to build one?
> Any suggestion will be appreciated.

Sorry, I cannot offer a blueprint for a backyard oven.  I think, however,
that you need not seek it only among Hungarians.  There may be more source
material about Italian peasant ovens in your library and they would do the
job just as well.  Obviously, a specialized pizza oven would not do, as it
may not be tall enough inside and may not have a door.

Just a minor correction: your subject, BUBOS KEMENCE, refers to an oven
that used to be *inside* the house, not outside.  Hence, I would expect its
design to be different from something that was built outside.

George Antony

Hungarian born, Canadian businessman-accountant   will travel to Budapest
during the summer,1996 for three weeks.

   Will take on assignments to look for business opportunities,  do
investment and business evaluations and audits.

--
Robert Gelb, Robert Gelb and Associates Inc.
12 Bradenton Drive,Willowdale,Ontario M2H 1Y5, Canada
(905)940-2380, (905)946-1734 FAX
e-mail: 
- Investment Specialists
- Business Plan Preparations and Evaluations,                           -
Business Management and Financial Consulting
- Mergers and acquisitions

In article >, Tony and Celia Becker
> says:
>
Dear Andras;
[snip]
To somewhat change the subject, though, Andras, when are we going to get
together for lunch--maybe we could include Fr. Nemeth from the Woodside
Priory School.  The reason I thought of that, is unfortunately he is one of
those recently who lamented the lack of concern from even our Hungarian
community about funding courses even at his school which also has a
Hungarian Augustinian monastery attached--and the monks--like Fr. Nemeth
teach at the school.  I was trying to figure out almost 2 years ago how to
make a donation  and elicit enough matching funds to do this there.  It
didnt' work.  Like Fr. Nemeth, I never heard enough interest.  It was very
discouraging.  So, I'm headed there anyway soon, with a modest donation for
more science equipment, and some information about where they can get some
more computers at a low cost.

I also want to follow up on George Szaszvari's idea of a chess students'
exchange.  Want to join me?
[snip]

Yes, Andras, how about it? This appeal is extended to anyone on the ng.

Cecilia mentions an exchange of *chess students*, but this only means
(in this particular case) a visit by, say, up to eight boys aged 8 to
13 of Dulwich College Preparatory School (with half as many adults in
tow) who happen to be members of my school chess club (the numbers could
be less, as necessary.) This is not a chess nerds exchange; they will be
just bright, educated and pleasant kids who happen to be in my school
club, mostly as beginners as far as chess is concerned.

The vast majority of boys at DCPS (it's a boys only school) are preoccupied
with music, maths and other scholarship studies to gain entrance to high-
flying public (the British sense: read *private*) schools and colleges and
eventually become Oxbridge (read *Ivy League*) graduates. Chess is just a
formal excuse for making the visit because bureaucratic constraints force
me to describe it as such (I'm employed at DCPS as the chess coach-cum-
organizer: BTW the school has had more than it's fair share of champions
over the years: e.g. the best DCPS player, currently, one Desmond Tan,
played in the u-12 world junior championship in Brazil last year, but he
is also miles ahead of all the rest at school.) We could arrange some
chess games between the kids, but this wouldn't be essential. The real
object in this case is to travel, make contacts and friendships and to
enjoy each others' hospitality.

I've previously organized several *real* chess exchanges with rated
juniors in Europe (e.g. England v Hungary, and other international matches)
in the last six years but such events usually require bureaucratic
involvement of the national federations and ,perhaps, sponsorship, too;
not so this initiative. The idea is for a few bright and pleasant kids
(with some of their professional parents) to meet up with their peers in
California (or the US generally.) Of course, this would be a reciprocal
arrangement: US kids and some of their parents (probably the hosts to the
UK visitors, assuming the UK kids visit first) would enjoy the hospitality
of the Dulwich Prep families in return. Wouldn't you like to be hosted,
pampered and guided around the loveliest parts of SE England by the most
civilized and friendly families in London and Kent for a week? (Just as I
was in the Bay Area by Cecilia and Tony last week!) :-)

Contact Cecilia, or yours truly, with offers, suggestions, or just ask
to find out more info.... I've suggested to Cecilia that the UK group
visit the Bay Area this summer (late July, or August), with the US group
coming to London during Easter or Summer '97 (or even October/November '96
might be possible) but I'm open to all ideas....

NB Group air fares are cheaper and US visitors to London will only need
to bring some pocket money (and NOT pay ludicrously expensive London hotel
prices!)

Anyone who wants to arrange an international chess exchange with rated
junior players for a serious international junior chess match is also
welcome to contact me, but this would be something else entirely and I
would need to treat it seperately from the above.

Regards,

George

George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK
Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy * Cybernautic address: 
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