TO : soc.culture.magyar, soc.culture.romanian
 
I got this from Traveltips newsletter

In article >, Sorin Tuluca > 
says:
>
>Come my friend we are waiting for stupids like you. I will be there too.
>As for the Hungarian culture, yes you had some but what a pity!- you certainly
>did not understand anything of it. Culture should not and never did foster hat
e with
>one notable exception : Hungary-recently declared the most hated people in Eur
ope...
>Cit despre taranii de noi: "..imi apar saracia si nevoile si neamul" asa ca By
 all 
>means come friend we will be ready!

Sorry to butt in on this private war, but do the the utterances in this 
posting have any credence? 

Could someone please explain this *most hated people in Europe* thing? What 
is it? Where and when was it declared and by whom (apart from ST, that is) 
and who believes it (apart from you know who...)?

Regards,

George

** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK **
 Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address: 
NB: The BBC has ceased to provide Internet access to the public but email to
the above address will be forwarded onto a new PIPEX address throughout 1996
   * C=64 stuff wanted * Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list *

In > "Dr Alex M Farkas (Staff)" 
> writes:

>The fact that it's the Romanians doing the persecution in Erde'ly is what gets
>to me: certainly in Hungary, we do not enforce interlaced Romanian/Hungarian
>housing just so that we can spy on the neighbours. And yet this is exactly wha
t
>is going on in Transylvania.  It's not the Hungarians that are paranoid, mate.

Right.  It's not the Hungarians who are paranoid, it's a certain 
Dr Alex M Farkas (Staff) who _is_ paranoid.

>For God's sake, people are not even allowed to have Hungarian coats of arms or
>pennants inside their houses for fear of retribution.

See above.

>otherwise.  The resentment arises when Hungarian is _outlawed_, with (Romanian
)
>neighbours reporting Hungarian speakers to police.

See above.

>>what hungarian territories??? have you ever asked yourself why Hungary is 
>>at odds with most of its neighbours?? romanians, slovaks, serbs,etc????
>
>You know what I meant - those parts of Slovakia that used to be Hungarian.

Yeah, Hungary used to be an empire, but it isn't any longer.  
Some (deranged) Hungarians still dream at the day when the empire will be
rebuilt.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

The Housernet Homepage Directory,
	Introducing the Housernet Homepage Directory. 
This is a new index of personal homepages.  We pride it
for being a representation of who really is surfing the net, 
regardless of age, nationalality, and gender.  

To add your homepage to the directory go to:
   	http://www.azc.com/client/houser/housdir.html

-Peter Deitz

George Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>Could someone please explain this *most hated people in Europe* thing? What 
>is it? Where and when was it declared and by whom (apart from ST, that is) 
>and who believes it (apart from you know who...)?
>
Oh come now, George!  Does it need to be spelled out fro you who most of
those "Hungary haters" are?  

Joe

On 8 Dec 1995, CHARLES VAMOSSY wrote:

> I wonder if you would be kind enough to share with us both Tokes' and 
> Funar's brief biography, past achievments and current political views, 
> relying as much as possible on quotations from reliable, verifiable 
> sources.  Since both men are at the center of events in Transylvania, 
> your research would be quite important to many people concerned with the 
> region.

That may be an exercise in futility. What may be a reliable source to me
will likely be dubious to Joe ! 
I tried to follow the KISS principle. I looked at them both, not through
their biographies, or past accomplishments, but rather by their present
undertakings. Their combined influence on the atmosphere at grass roots
level in Transylvania has not been benefic by any means. That is why I 
consider that they are both in breech of their oath of office ! One is
a mayor, bound to look out for his community as a whole, instead he
chooses controversy and inflames nationalist resentments. The other is a
priest, a man of god. Instead of preaching peace and God's love he is
infatuated with his own persona, choosing to meddle in 'Caesar's' business
instead of minding the scriptures. He is just as likely as Funar to   
rot in hell ! 

m. cristian

In article >,
Cristian Tomescu  > wrote:
>      (Gabor Barsai) wrote:
>
>     >Why should they have developed an alphabet? The Zog people
>     >communicated with each other in unintelligible grunts and moans.
>
>     aah, i see......communication through copulation.....which also
>     explained their fecundity.....happy people, these zog-ians......

Hey, ignorance is bliss. Their rallying cry was: "Ugh - Me like fast woman,
fast food and fast horses". (Translated from Zog, with some difficulty, I
admit.) "Me no understand wheel-thing, want to buy some raw meat?"

>     you know, they just wanted to impress the roman chicks......

Who wouldn't? Day after day of orgies in the Roman province of Dacia...

>     >The one's that weren't civilized were assimilated by the Magyars,
>     >advancing from the East.
>     >THESE Zogs were not so intelligent, and continued to "speak" to
>     >each other in grunts,
>     >thus the Slovak saying "Talking like a Magyar" ie. to talk nonsense.
>
     what do the slovaks know about anything, anyway?

Not much, I guess.

>     >I hope this cleared up the whole concept. ;-O
>
>     >Gabor
>
>     cleared up?......i thought it was common knowledge......gee, some
>     people are really dense around here.....
>
>     -cristian (of true zog-ian and roman blood)

"The only reason I think there is intelligent life somewhere else is that it
hasn't tried to contact us."
"The laws of perspective have been repealed! Objects no longer diminish in
size with distance! Angles no longer converge toward the horizon! It's
impossible to know how far away anything is!"
With stupendous powers of reasoning, Stupendous Man comes to the conclusion
that there is no homework due if there is no school left tomorrow."
"I've changed my mind, Hobbes. People are scum."

Ha, but who cares? Vast quantities of alcoholic substances do a good job.

Gabor

Hermes > wrote:
>
>
>On 7 Dec 1995  wrote:
>
>> Fortunately in the West these two men are seen quite differently because
>> we have not forgotten those TV pictures of late '89, early '90 with
>> Tokes celebrated as a hero, even by Romanians themselves.  Funar on the
>> other hand was shown never more than the scum he is.
>> So your equating those two guys tells more about you than about Tokes or
>> Funar.
>> Joe
>
>Certainly Joe ! If I may add, it tells more about me, than it tells about 
>you and other armchair experts that gather their info and form their
>opinions by sticking their potato heads in a TV.
>If you still have some capacity for objectivity left unadultarated, you 
>should spend a little time in the area. 
>That may help confront and reconcile your pipe dreams, missunderstandings
>and half truths you arrived at, with the realities of the place !
>
>m. cristian


M. Christian -- I, too would like to confess that my knowledge of both 
men come primarily from news accounts.  Therefore, I would like to take 
you up at your offer...  

I wonder if you would be kind enough to share with us both Tokes' and 
Funar's brief biography, past achievments and current political views, 
relying as much as possible on quotations from reliable, verifiable 
sources.  Since both men are at the center of events in Transylvania, 
your research would be quite important to many people concerned with the 
region.


Thanks in advance


Charles Vamossy

In article >,
Cristian Tomescu  > wrote:
>      (Gabor Barsai) wrote:
>
>     >Why should they have developed an alphabet? The Zog people
>     >communicated with each other in unintelligible grunts and moans.
>
>     aah, i see......communication through copulation.....which also
>     explained their fecundity.....happy people, these zog-ians......

Hey, ignorance is bliss. Their rallying cry was: "Ugh - Me like fast woman,
fast food and fast horses". (Translated from Zog, with some difficulty, I
admit.) "Me no understand wheel-thing, want to buy some raw meat?"

>     you know, they just wanted to impress the roman chicks......

Who wouldn't? Day after day of orgies in the Roman province of Dacia...

>     >The one's that weren't civilized were assimilated by the Magyars,
>     >advancing from the East.
>     >THESE Zogs were not so intelligent, and continued to "speak" to
>     >each other in grunts,
>     >thus the Slovak saying "Talking like a Magyar" ie. to talk nonsense.
>
>     what do the slovaks know about anything, anyway?

Not much, I guess.

>     >I hope this cleared up the whole concept. ;-O
>
>     >Gabor
>
>     cleared up?......i thought it was common knowledge......gee, some
>     people are really dense around here.....
>
>     -cristian (of true zog-ian and roman blood)

"The only reason I think there is intelligent life somewhere else is that it
hasn't tried to contact us."
"The laws of perspective have been repealed! Objects no longer diminish in
size with distance! Angles no longer converge toward the horizon! It's
impossible to know how far away anything is!"
"With stupendous powers of reasoning, Stupendous Man comes to the conclusion
that there is no homework due if there is no school left tomorrow."
"I've changed my mind, Hobbes. People are scum."

Ha, but who cares? Vast quantities of alcoholic substances do a good job.

Gabor

In article >,
Cristian Tomescu  > wrote:
>      (Gabor Barsai) wrote:
>
>     >Why should they have developed an alphabet? The Zog people
>     >communicated with each other in unintelligible grunts and moans.
>
>     aah, i see......communication through copulation.....which also
>     explained their fecundity.....happy people, these zog-ians......

Hey, ignorance is bliss. Their rallying cry was: "Ugh - Me like fast woman,
fast food and fast horses". (Translated from Zog, with some difficulty, I
admit.) "Me no understand wheel-thing, want to buy some raw meat?"

>     you know, they just wanted to impress the roman chicks......

Who wouldn't? Day after day of orgies in the Roman province of Dacia...

>     >The one's that weren't civilized were assimilated by the Magyars,
>     >advancing from the East.
>     >THESE Zogs were not so intelligent, and continued to "speak" to
>     >each other in grunts,
>     >thus the Slovak saying "Talking like a Magyar" ie. to talk nonsense.
>
     what do the slovaks know about anything, anyway?

Not much, I guess.

>     >I hope this cleared up the whole concept. ;-O
>
>     >Gabor
>
>     cleared up?......i thought it was common knowledge......gee, some
>     people are really dense around here.....
>
>     -cristian (of true zog-ian and roman blood)

"The only reason I think there is intelligent life somewhere else is that it
hasn't tried to contact us."
"The laws of perspective have been repealed! Objects no longer diminish in
size with distance! Angles no longer converge toward the horizon! It's
impossible to know how far away anything is!"
"With stupendous powers of reasoning, Stupendous Man comes to the conclusion
that there is no homework due if there is no school left tomorrow."
"I've changed my mind, Hobbes. People are scum."

Ha, but who cares? Vast quantities of alcoholic substances do a good job.

Gabor

Iwould like some information if there are any internet cafes currently or
planned in Budapest?  Any info would be greatly appericated
 
Thanks

George Szaszvari ) wrote:
: In article >,  (Liviu Io
rdache) says:

: >Let's get something straight here: 
: >
: >the alleged Hun-Magyar dynastic continuity it's neither a historical
: >fact, nor a myth without any basis in facts. It is just a plain
: >misconception. There is no connection, whatsoever, between the 5th
: >century Attila the Hun and 9th century Arpad. Period.

: Correct. It might actually be worth regularly posting a FAQ, explaining to 
: all the poor souls who frequently betray their ignorance by believing that 
: Huns and Magyars are one and the same thing. 

: Huns were Turkic and the Magyars were Ob-Ugrian from the Urals (the word 
	    ^^^^^^^
	Sorry George , where is the proof? It turns out out that the Huns
		came originally from Northern China ( their name might come
		from the name of the chinese tribe Hiun-nu ; and this area
		is very close to the Ob and the Baikal lake and its people)

: Hungarian being an unfortunate corruption of Ugrian, which now leads many
					       ^^^^^^
	Not so in my opinion. The word Hungarian might come from the des-
	crition in German for the "people from the area of the Ung river".
	Hungary is Ungarn in German.

: simpletons to equate Hun with Magyar.)

	Yes I might be a simpleton.It is not a sin.But it seems to me that
	some people in this group do anything to 'prove' that Huns and Hun-
	garians can not be related. They cite "historians',etc.
	The fact is that from those times we have _very_ little written
	material so anyone can create any theory regarding this subject.

					CSABA  HARANGOZO
					

: George 

: **** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK *
***
: ** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address: 
 **
:  * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you have
 *
:  * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bought
 *

In article >,  (Arpad Jaromy) says:
>
>Keresem Europa Kiado cimet (Konyv kiado), regi cime: Vorosmarty ter 1, 
>1051 Budapest.
>Akarmilyen informaciot rola nagyon koszonom!

He's in Cuba with Salman Rushdie.

In article >,
    (Igor GAZDIK) wrote:
>"In article >,  says...
>">
>" wrote:
>
>">If you are a Slovak and say to a Hungarian, that he is gypsy and
>">then this Hungarian gets angry and denies that he's no gypsy,
>">then I just wonder who is racist, you, the Hungarian, nobody
>">or both?
>">
>">Jorma Kyppo
>">Laukaa
>">Finland
>"
>">
>
>      jorma, next time you come to slovakia (and i hope it will
>      be soon), pls get in touch with some gypsies.   they can be
>      quite nice (just like most people).   you will notice that
>      at least 8 out of 10 are called s~an~o lakatos~ (i am using
>      the ~ to indicate the slovak "makcen~"~).   that surely is
>      not a slovak name.   
>
And if you come to the Czech Republic, you will notice, that 8 of 10
of them speaks Slovak...
Peter

> ========================================================================
Name: Peter Vass
E-Mail address: 
Organization: Prague Institute of Chemical Technology, Computer Center
Postal Address: Technicka 5, 166 28 Prague 6, Czech Republic
Phone No: +42 2 24 35 31 00
Fax No:   +42 2 24 31 10 82
> ========================================================================

Hi!

     I am interested inwhether there are any news agencies from
Budapest or any Hungarian city on the Internet. I just looked
over the FAQ and it seemed not.

     Thanks,

                         Gloria McMillan

Hello,

I am looking for someone in Hungary to shop for something for me and then 
mail it to me in the USA.  I can send you payment or we could trade for 
something that you would like from the USA.

Anyone interested ?

Thank you,

Amy Forsyth

you do have fundamentalists here.

In article >,
Cristian Tomescu  > wrote:
>      (Gabor Barsai) wrote:
>
>     >Why should they have developed an alphabet? The Zog people
>     >communicated with each other in unintelligible grunts and moans.
>
>     aah, i see......communication through copulation.....which also
>     explained their fecundity.....happy people, these zog-ians......

Hey, ignorance is bliss. Their rallying cry was: "Ugh - Me like fast woman,
fast food and fast horses". (Translated from Zog, with some difficulty, I
admit.) "Me no understand wheel-thing, want to buy some raw meat?"

>     you know, they just wanted to impress the roman chicks......

Who wouldn't? Day after day of orgies in the Roman province of Dacia...

>     >The one's that weren't civilized were assimilated by the Magyars,
>     >advancing from the East.
>     >THESE Zogs were not so intelligent, and continued to "speak" to
>     >each other in grunts,
>     >thus the Slovak saying "Talking like a Magyar" ie. to talk nonsense.
>
>     what do the slovaks know about anything, anyway?

Not much, I guess.

>     >I hope this cleared up the whole concept. ;-O
>
>     >Gabor
>
>     cleared up?......i thought it was common knowledge......gee, some
>     people are really dense around here.....
>
>     -cristian (of true zog-ian and roman blood)

"The only reason I think there is intelligent life somewhere else is that it
hasn't tried to contact us."
"The laws of perspective have been repealed! Objects no longer diminish in
size with distance! Angles no longer converge toward the horizon! It's
impossible to know how far away anything is!"
"With stupendous powers of reasoning, Stupendous Man comes to the conclusion 
that there is no homework due if there is no school left tomorrow."
"I've changed my mind, Hobbes. People are scum."

Ha, but who cares? Vast quantities of alcoholic substances do a good job.

Gabor

Piotr Wnukowski > wrote:

>There is another, quite convincing ethymology of the word:
>Niemcy  (Germans)
>The word can stem from >> nie my << , which means >> not us <<.
>Compare with >>niemy<< (dumb).

It's not very convincing because "ne my" ("not us") and "njem" 
("mute") have historically different "e" sounds ("plain e" vs 
"jat'").  Old Russian texts spelled the word with "jat'", and
modern Ukrainian supports this with "I" ("nimec'", not "nemec'",
as one would expect from "ne my").

-- 
Ed Ponarin  --  üÄŐÁŇÄ đĎÎÁŇÉÎ

Don't even dare to think that my employer endorses these opinions!

 hat am 27.11.95
mit dem Thema "Re: Meaning of "Germany"" das Chaos beschworen...

DP >....When I
DP >was learning German (not very profoundly, I must confess) I noticed that
DP >there existed an adjective `teutlich' meaning comprehensible,
DP >understandable, ...

p> Terribly sorry, the correct spelling is `deutlich'. Which seems to make my
p> point still clearer.

The German's call themselves "Deutsche". This comes from the name of an  
old celtic tribe named Teutones. For the romans we were Germans.

I think the original meaning of "German" is skin or naked body, because  
when Caesar first recovered the Germans he wrote, that they were nearly  
undressed or just with some animal skins. And the nearest latin word for  
german means skin...

Fortunately we have clothes now. It's very cold outside at this moment.
Brrr....:-)

Only for those who are interested in...

CU...


           __ ___
         /  _) __)                          PGP-Key available
       /  /(  (
      (  (_ \  \__                  --< *spoke the raven nevermore* >--
       \___)  \___)

      
      

## CrossPoint v3.1 ##

Sacramento Hungarian Association
P.O. Box 254534
SACRAMENTO, CA 95865


You and your family and friends are cordially invited to a delightful
Christmas Dinner.

		December 16, 1995, Saturday
		at Rascal’s Pub & Grill
		9819 Horn Road,  Rancho Cordova
		(on Folsom Boulevard, West from Bradshaw)

		Coctails at 6:00 p.m.  Dinner at 7:00 p.m.
	Menu:
	Roast beef and chicken with mushroom
	Garlic roasted red potatoes and rice pilaf, sweet peas
	Pasta Primavera, home made rolls
	Salad, cafe, cake or cookies

Music: Piros Karaván with Lívia Dóra and Gyula Bodrogi (Los Angeles)

Proper attire required.			Dinner is $20/person

Reservation is absolutely necessary!!!  (One week in advance)
Please call Zsuzsa at (916) 361-1679 and send a check by mail to: 
Susan Artenstein, 9472 Appalachian Drive, Sacramento, CA  95827

If you have any questions, please call Zsuzsa (Susan) at the above 
telephoen number or E-mail to Gabor at  

In article >, 
 (Jennifer Hayes) says:
>
>George Szaszvari ) wrote:
>: In article >,  (Liviu I
ordache) says:
>
>: >Let's get something straight here: 
>: >
>: >the alleged Hun-Magyar dynastic continuity it's neither a historical
>: >fact, nor a myth without any basis in facts. It is just a plain
>: >misconception. There is no connection, whatsoever, between the 5th
>: >century Attila the Hun and 9th century Arpad. Period.
>
>: Correct. It might actually be worth regularly posting a FAQ, explaining to 
>: all the poor souls who frequently betray their ignorance by believing that 
>: Huns and Magyars are one and the same thing. 
>
>: Huns were Turkic and the Magyars were Ob-Ugrian from the Urals (the word 
>            ^^^^^^^
>        Sorry George , where is the proof? It turns out out that the Huns
>                came originally from Northern China ( their name might come
>                from the name of the chinese tribe Hiun-nu ; and this area
>                is very close to the Ob and the Baikal lake and its people)

Proof? Sorry, first let me emphasize that I do not have any serious academic
background in researching the subject and what I did read on it (out of 
personal interest) was about twenty-odd years ago. I can only relate the 
plausible arguments based on academic research that I happen to know. The 
most plausible of these, if I remember correctly, is in Cushing's *Finno-
Ugrian Languages and Peoples*, which traces the linguistic connection between 
the Ob-Ugrian languages in the Ural Mountains, Finnish and Magyar.
 
Regarding the origins of the Huns of Attila, this peripheral assertion 
was made off the cuff based on the assumption that Attila is a Turkic name. 
(Kazakstan, Turkmenistan, etc, in the former USSR have Turkic languages, 
don't they?) I should be glad to be corrected on any of this.

>: Hungarian being an unfortunate corruption of Ugrian, which now leads many
>                                               ^^^^^^
>        Not so in my opinion. The word Hungarian might come from the des-
>        crition in German for the "people from the area of the Ung river".
>        Hungary is Ungarn in German.

Yes, I think I recall reading something like this, too, somewhere. Someone
else replied that Hungarian is a corruption of Unugur (?) a people from 
Bulgaria. My details are hazy now, but, anyway, Hungarian is a misnomer, 
that's the point.                               ^^^^^^^^^

>: simpletons to equate Hun with Magyar.)
>
>        Yes I might be a simpleton.It is not a sin.But it seems to me that
>        some people in this group do anything to 'prove' that Huns and Hun-
>        garians can not be related. They cite "historians',etc.
>        The fact is that from those times we have _very_ little written
>        material so anyone can create any theory regarding this subject.

Don't take it personally, I wasn't referring to you or anyone who takes/
has taken an interest in this subject. By *simpletons* I mean joe public
who superficially, without any real thought or care (why should they care,
anyway?) make the connection with Attila and his Huns and Arpad and his 
Magyars(-cum-Hungarians) because the syllable *hun* appears in both. 
Obviously, I am also guilty of being a simpleton in this sense by being 
superficial about Attila the Hun's origins. Personally, I wouldn't mind at 
all being a distant relative of Attila the Hun's tribe(s). I'm also happy 
to be shot down and to learn: this is the great thing about Usenet. Keep 
up the good work!

George

                                 
>: **** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK 
****
>: ** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address: 
k **
>:  * NW London Computer Club * Commodore=64 stuff wanted: tell me what you hav
e *
>:  * Interested in secondhand chess books? Ask for my list * Collections bough
t *

** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK **
 Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address: 
NB: The BBC has ceased to provide Internet access to the public but email to
the above address will be forwarded onto a new PIPEX address throughout 1996
   * C=64 stuff wanted * Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list *

In >  (George Szaszvari) write
s:

>Could someone please explain this *most hated people in Europe* thing? What 
>is it? Where and when was it declared and by whom (apart from ST, that is) 
>and who believes it (apart from you know who...)?

Try reading Jaroslav Hasek, "The Adventures of the Brave Soldier Svejk"
(or something like this).  One of the greatest books written this century
(even if, unfortunately, unfinished).

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

 (Jorma Kypp|) wrote:

>The word "Ruotsi" = "Sweden" is probably same origin like "Russia" and "Ryss".

So, it seems that the word "Slav" has something to do with "slava"
(fame, glory) and "slovo" (word). I.e., these folks could communicate
with each other using their language, and this was how they were
different from tribes not knowing this language. This sounds
reasonable to me. Now, does the word "slovo" have something to do
with the verb "lovit'" or "slovit'" - "to catch"? Like in Russian
"ulovit' smysl" - catch the essence. ("Smysl", of course, is
related to "mysl'" - thought, something that you may have
difficulty expressing without "slovo" (word).)

>The Finnish name for Russia is "Venaja" (a with dots) and probably originates
>to Vendis. Finns knew about Vendis when they went by ships in ancient times
>to German and Polish coast. And when the first Slavs came to Novgorod level
>they were speaking same kind of language.

There exists a belief that the Veneti (Venedi or Venedae) of Pliny
and Tacitus were a people of the sort later called Slavs. Tacitus
also knew Finns (Fenni). So "Venaja" comes as no surprise.

>The Estonian name for Russia is almost similar "Venemaa". If you make
>a straight translation in English, you get "Boatland". This is just
>a warning example (when reading some word explanations in this thread)
>how easy it is to make wrong conclusions about the origin of the name.

But "ruotsi" means "those who rowed", right?
So here's an alternative to the Venedi origin of "Venaja". 

A Frankish annal under the year 839 records that in that year
a Byzantine embassy to the Carolingian emperor was accompanied
by some "Rus" whose way home by the Dnieper had been blocked
by the Pechenegs; recognizing the "Rus" as Swedes, the suspicious
emperor, Louis the German, detained them. In 840, the Rus attacked
Amastris, a Byzantine outpost on the south shore of the Black Sea.

How old is the word "Sweden", anyway, and how do Swedes name
themselves?

In the monograph "Slavs and Scandinavians" I found that the
old base of operations of Rurik (Hrorekr) was on the territory
of present day Denmark. (So maybe the Holstein-Hottorp branch
of Romanovs is not so alien to Russia, after all. :)
He had contacts with Franks that got documented.

Where is that Roslangen place that got mentioned in the context?
(By the way, presence of Staraya Russa in the North-Western
corner of the plain may be symptomatic, too.)

The real issue to me is not that certain Varangians called
themselves Rus, but rather why they might want to do so.
To distinct themselves from other Scandinavians? I mean,
would they move to Gardarik just in search of adventures,
or had they happened to have troubles "at home"? The
Vikings who discovered Iceland, Greenland, and Labrador
seemed to be in such a position. 

Notice that the version presented at Sergei Naoumov's
"Dazhdbog's Grandchildren" site

http://sunsite.oit.unc.edu/sergei/Grandsons.html

(namely, that Russians got their name after the Ros' river
and the tribe of Rosichi that supposedly lived along
the river) does not appear plausible, cause no respected
Varangian would name himself after an obscure Slav
tribe. The question is, was there such tribe at all?
Cause relying upon Academician Rybakov in ethnography
is like relying upon Academician Alexandrov in the
issues of nuclear safety.

Notice, however, that Latvian name for Russians is
Kriviesi, and this one apparently comes from Krivichi, the
closest Slav tribe to the Baltic folks.

The name of the Ros' river may be related to Russian
"rosa" (dew). I don't think that this had anything
to do with Rus. It's like English words "sledge"
and "sledgehammer". The former one comes from "sled"
and the latter one from "slegge", words of different
origin. They never repaired sledges with sledgehammers,
you know.

Dmitri

We want to know what you think about various
                        countries and cities

We are a Brazilian research agency carrying out a survey designed  to
discover what people think about various places all over  the  world.
Would you like to participate? Your opinion is very important. If you
would like to take part, please reply to each of the questions on the
cities listed below: (Please send via E-Mail to )

Berlin - Germany
----------------

A) What ideas come to mind when you hear the name of this city?
B) What ideas come to mind when Germany is mentioned?
C) What do you think, no matter how vague your references,
   of the German people?

Buenos Aires - Argentina
------------------------

A) What ideas come to mind when you hear the name of this city?
B) What ideas come to mind when Argentina is mentioned?
C) What do you think, no matter how vague your references,
   of the Argentine people?

Cape Town - South Africa
------------------------

A) What ideas come to mind when you hear the name of this city?
B) What ideas come to mind when South Africa is mentioned?
C) What do you think, no matter how vague your references,
   of the South African people?

Istanbul - Turkey
-----------------

A) What ideas come to mind when you hear the name of this city?
B) What ideas come to mind when Turkey is mentioned?
C) What do you think, no matter how vague your references,
   of the Turkish people?

Beijing - China
---------------

A) What ideas come to mind when you hear the name of this city?
B) What ideas come to mind when China is mentioned?
C) What do you think, no matter how vague your references,
   of the Chinese people?

Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
-----------------------

A) What ideas come to mind when you hear the name of this city?
B) What ideas come to mind when Brazil is mentioned?
C) What do you think, no matter how vague your references,
   of the Brazilian people?

Thank you for your cooperation.

Peoples Research.

In article >,  writes:
> A wave of new age is sweeping the United States, and many people are
> reverting to pagan beliefs in this country. I am curious to see if
> there is a paralell tendency in Hungary. What is still known about the
> old religion and its practices besides the myths of Emese and the
> like? Are there any in Hungary who are starting to practice the old
> ways again? 

>
 My short answer is: thanks god, not really.