On 13 May 1996 21:30:58 GMT, (Walter Sheasby )
wrote:

>Visit  http://www.greens.org/california/waltbio.html
>,_   .  ._. _.  .        _  ,   .
>            , _-\','|~\~~ ~~ ~~/       ;-'-'  ~-',    ,;_;_,
>    |~-\_/-'~'--' \~~| \,/' _-|       /~~~~~|_/~-/-/~~      ~    ~~~'-
>   /   _.'        ,/'-/~ '\./   '  .  |, |_-' '                .__ /~~
> .,,/-'~\_,       '-,| '|. '       ,\_/'~'                ,     | \'
> '~       '|        '',\~|\       '_\~,_,  ,_ .  .            ./'.
>           '\        /'~           |_/~|-|-|~' \ "          ,_|~''
>            |       /             ._-~'\_'_'/ .             | | /|
>             \   __-\            '/      ~ |\  \__    .   .,|
>              |  |/| ~-_       - |         \ \  /'|   /\  |~',
>               '--_'| _;        '|          \ |-   \,/  |\/ .|
>                  '\||~'\_        \___,      '/'    '   |, / '
>                    /'   \-_        ~ |     /'          '| /|/ -\ .
>                    |       ~\         |    \  ,         '-_, ,; \ ~\
>                     \,      /         \    /  |/          ~ ,-\|    -,

>  
>     Vote for WALT CONTRERAS SHEASBY for 27th Congressional District
>                 http://www.greens.org/california.html
>
>      ECOLOGY   NON-VIOLENCE   SOCIAL JUSTICE   GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY   
>
>                                GREEN PARTY
>

>Send contributions to:
>SHEASBY FOR CONGRESS
>P.O. B5-7858
>
>
These are the same groups that the bullshit artist Antonio posted to.
Either this guy is a Pinko (looks like it) or he is just stuck in the
60's.........  My money is on him being Antonio's brother.......  A
ton of bullshit either way.

no sig yet.................
>                
>                                                                     
>              
>
>
>
>
>
>

In article >,
%FNAME% > wrote:
>I agree with you wholeheartedly.
>
>IW

Agree with whom?  It would help to include some text to which you are
responding to.

Joe

Cours 6412 > wrote:
>
>Another cheap shot from Joe Pannon.

This is another way of saying it was a Bull's Eye, eh?

>As other of his "activist" friends he is quite selective in picking
>historical facts. Then he repackages the whole thing to put romanians
>in a bad light.

Let's see how selective you are ...

>Let's see:
>
>Couldn't be a plausible explanation the fact that the communist regimes
>from the other Warsaw Pact countries where more obedient to the 
>directives coming from Moscow ? Remember, Romania was the only one 
>that hadn't russian troops stationed on her soil.

Yes, the Russians weren't stupid and knew that Romanians can be held in
check by their own commies alone.  Thanks for helping making my case.

>Couldn't this mean that Romania was harder to influence than
>a country that has russian bases on her soil ? 

No, because this is a non-sequitur, if you know what that means.

>Unfortunately romanians could not benefit as others from the 
>"perestroika" and "glasnost" radiating from Moscow.

Yes, Romanians could not even come up with their own perestroika because
they were too mesmerized by their Genius of the Carpathian and his
Academician wife.
>
>In november 1987 in Brasov (second largest city in Romania) there
>has been an uprising.
>It occurred while a fake election event was taking place.
>It was a spontaneous movement that involved the workers of the
>"Tractorul" factory (I think). I know that a mob of angry people
>devastated the party and mayory buildings.

Yes, I know about that.  But again, as I wrote to the Law Student, that
event has nothing to do with the toppling of the Ceausescu regime in
'89.

>  But I guess that 1987 was a bit too early for the dismantlement
>of the iron cortin.

It was also too localized.

>At that time (1987) nobody have heard anything about Tokes. Actually I
>started hearing about him just a few months before December 1989
>(from Radio Free Europe of course).

Well, just because you haven't heard about him, others may have. In
fact, his name was pretty well known by the time Ceausescu came up with
his "systemization" scheme.
>
>Everybody has heard about the hungarian 1956 uprising while nobody knew
>(even romanians didn't knew) about the partisan war waged in the 
>Carpathians by anti-communist forces until the 50s.

Maybe because there was a big difference in their significance, no?

>But is not the first time romanian's acts remain anonymous. You know,
>those daco-romans anonymously retreating in the same Carpathians,
>while those magyar tribes where making a big noise while settling
>in Panonia ;-)

Oh yes!  You know, actually it was only a branch of Hungarians who
arrived (returned, really!) 1,100 years ago to the Carpathian Basin.
The main body of Hungarians was "laying low" there for centuries, the
same way you are claiming your ancestors were in Transylvania.  You
don't believe me just because there is not historical record of this?
Hey, why should I believe your story then?

Yours,
Panonescu

 (Antonio) wrote:
>ANY HOAXTERS ILLEGALLY AND MALICIOUSLY USING ANOTHER PERSON'S INTERNET ADDRESS
>WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
>
>I REPEAT, THEIR IDENTITY WILL BE FOUND AND THEY WILL BE PROSECUTED TO THE 
>FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.
>
>THERE ARE NO NUDE PICTURES OF ANY GIRL NAMED LINDA, OR ANYONE ELSE, AVAILABLE
>FROM THIS INTERNET DOMAIN ADDRESS.
>

> 
> Lenin got an erection? I thought he was dead? Talk about a bone(r)... WOW!

True! When they embalmed him they gave him a 'stiffie', some poor bastard 
in still doing time in a gulag.

Pust Zemlyah Budyet Pukhom

-- 
               /\_____/\             .
              /  o   o  \            .
             ( ==  ^  == )           .
              )    -    (            .
             (           )           .
            ( (  )   (  ) )          .
           (__(__)___(__)__)         . 
Jelly Cat, Jelly Cat, what are they feeding you?

%FNAME% > wrote:
>Next to King Carol and Elena Lupescu (his Jewish Romanian woman).  
> What a coincidence!!!

Horthy living next to the former Romanian ruler?  Perhaps they lived in
a "royal" district? ;-)

Joe

In article >,
%FNAME% > wrote:
>
>But I remember hearing once that Romanians disliked Secretary of State Baker b
ecause they assumed 
>his views on Romania to be influenced by his Hungarian wife  ( is that true?).
  Once again, a 

I've never heard of Baker having a Hungarian wife.  But I do know, that
Holebrook just married Kati Marton, the former wife of Peter Jennings,
who is a Hungarian native, though I never heard of her being
particularly involved in Hungarian affairs.

Joe

In article >, Law Student  > wrote:
>
>  My dear and very inquisitive Sir Panonescu, to be most accurate about this 
>revolutionnary mouvements, you must know the fact that, from a historical poin
t of 
>view, the Romanian changements were starting in 1988(!) at ...Chisinau. Pastor
 Tokes 
>has not at all any contributions in this impressive change. Please, try to pra
ctice 
>the comparative historical studies.                                           
      
Since you're still only a student, I'll tie half my brain behind my back
to make this a fair exchange.

Since I was talking about the 1989 series of events that one by one
toppled the communist regimes in the East Bloc, the '88 events cited by
you are irrelevant "changements.".

>    In Iasi city, it was programmated, by the so-called Popular Front of Roman
ia 
>(similar to the Popular Front of Moldova), the anti-communist meeting for Dece
mber 
>14, 1989 (three days earlier by comparison with the spontaneous solidarity of 
>Timisoara's citizens -behind any ethnic criteria- with that pastor PRIVATE 
>cause...)...  In a big part of Iasi, from Copou hill to the industrial zone, m
any 
>hundreds anti-communist manifests were spreded a day before...Unfortunately, t
he 
>initiators of that very rational and programming revolutionary meeting in Iasi
 city, 
>were, immmediately, arrested and the town occupied by the ancient political 
>police...                                                                     
      
So those could also be not considered sparks for the eventual
revolution.  Now comes a quiz: On that final appearance of Ceausescu in
the balcony that was shown on the TV worldwide, the crowd below shouted
the name of a city.  Can you tell us which city that was?  I would also
like your guess why THAT city. 

>    Again, friendly, I invite you to chek the facts before you refer to the 
>history of another country.It's a minimum and absolute necessary bon sense!

Me, too, friendly remind you that students should refrain lecturing
before they finish their studies.

>    Understandableness, your Valerius M. Ciuca. 

Was your name Csuka before, by any chance?

Just wondering ...

Yours,
Panonescu

PS: Brain untied.

In >  (Stéphane Dohet) wr
ites: 

>
>"Mr. Wizard" > wrote:
>
>>Antonio wrote:
>>> 
>>> FRIENDS AND COMRADES, THIS IS AN OPEN LETTER.  A SMART-ASS CRETIN KNOWN AS
>>> 'GEORGE HERBERT' HAS FLIPPANTLY INSTRUCTED THE USERS OF THE USENET NOT TO
>>> RESPOND TO POSTS LAUDING THE EFFORTS OF COMMUNISTS IN RUSSIA TO FORM A NEW
>>> SOVIET UNION WHICH SHALL CRUSH ALL VERMIN LIKE HIM.
>>> 
>>> MY FRIENDS, THE PROGRESSIVE FORCES OF SOCIALISM WILL NOT TAKE THIS LIGHTLY.
>>> ONCE WE ARE IN POWER, THE ENTIRE 'NET' WILL BE USED ONLY FOR REVOLUTIONARY
>>> PURPOSES.  WE ARE RESERVING A CELL IN THE NEW GULAG FOR THE LIKES OF ANTI-
>>> SOVIET HOOLIGANS LIKE MR. HERBERT.   MR. GEORGE HERBERT, BE WARNED.
>>> 
>>> LONG LIVE THE STRUGGLE OF THE PROGRESSIVE FORCES OF SOCIALISM!
>>> 
>>> Antonio "I am a Stalinist, but I'm a Nice Guy" Gomez Muzcreidt
>
>>I'm sick of this racist bullshit.  Could you take it to the appropriate 
>>Nazi/racists/psycho groups?
>
>>I have absolutely no iterest in hearing you denounce millions of innocent
>>people who are entitled to their opinion just like you.
>
>>Please, leave innocent folks alone.  After all, they're not coming after you,
>>are they?
>
>Non mais, y devient grave, cet Antonio! Y veut nous faire croire que
>les Luxembourgeois sont des Caucasiens, et maintenant il veut revenir
>au communisme. Il est dangereux de penser ainsi.
>

MONSIEUR:
Le jour quand j'ai ecris ca, j'ai oublie' prendre mon <<lithium>>, c'est tout.
Pardonnez-moi!   Et merci beaucoup pour le posting...
-Antonio

In article >,  (Jarmo Ryyti) wrote:


>     Therefore I hope someone could repeal the rumours about
>     Ainazi.
> 
> 
I've been through there twice (on a bus, with an American passport) and
everything went professionally. I'm going again this week and will keep my
eyes open.

Regards,
Eugene Holman

In article >  "%FNAME%" 
writes:

>  (A f***ing angry romanian) wrote:

very clever diversionism, I don't even believe a Romanian posted this! 

> >In article >,
> >   "%FNAME%" > wrote:

gurgle gurgle

---------------

Let's face it, Antonescu was a big time war criminal, as much as Hitler
and Mussolini were, with as much of a destructive influence on his own
country. The result was much the same in all cases. Insofar as Horthy was a 
war criminal, you would think, for any non-Hungarian ethnics in Transylvania, 
obviously yes. Maybe the real problem is Hungarian apologism for the Horthyist 
era. Maybe the difference is also in terms of 'degree of complicity in 
activities which are defined as war crimes'. The reasons for Antonescus 
so-called (because its not real, or official) rehabilitation are twofold, one, 
in the present day, is certain powerful individuals with connections who have 
gerrymandered the whole phenomenon to further a longer term, complex political 
goal. The 2nd reason, and in a much smaller degree, is that Antonescu died a 
martyrs death, in a time when, although he was firmly hated by most of the 
people, the terrible human rights and economic abuses commited by the occupying
Russians and their imported stooges were so bad as to actually inspire sympathy
for him 50 years ago, in May 1946. His trial was a farce, unbelievably short 
and kangaroo like, whereas the trials of some of his contemporaries, who were 
guilty of much much less, were deliberately long and drawn out. Antonescu 
wasn't even properly tried for a fraction of the things he was guily of, in 
the proper sense ala-Nuremberg, if we can even use that as a yardstick. For 
his firing squad, the communists didn't/couldn't? get any military personnel
to form an execution platoon, so they had to get some of their henchmen to do 
it. When offered a blind-fold, he said no. Because of the unprofessionalism of 
the shooting, several salvos were needed.   

Sound a little bit like the Ceausescu trial? Romania, in the last 50 years, 
has not had what can be termed 'a civilised transfer of power', eg. if we take
into account the assasination of G-Dej by the KGB, when he died of a Jack Ruby 
style, 'previously undetected cancer'. Political leadership in a country with 
Romanias geopolitical situation, since WW2, if not possibly throughout all of
history, is an unfortunate occupation that makes one 'worthy of an unnatural 
death', as the record will prove. 

If Antonescu was ever a hero, it would be for WW1, when he distinguished 
himself in the eastern Moldova campaign against bolshevik Russian bandit
formations, if we're going to be completely objective about it (I realise that 
complete objectivity is painful for many foreign & domestic readers of scr, 
but you're all welcome to eat my shorts, starting with fname).    
    
However, everybody with half a brain should already know this, and it still 
doesn't disguise the fact that the 'fname' character talks mucho-crockola, and 
is obviously on a hate campaign of sorts. If opinions are like assholes, then 
fname has many in the wrong places. 'fname' also likes to believe that the
racist rag 'GR' is the most popular magazine in Romania.
This is like saying that 'KKK-monthly' or something like this is the most
popular mag in America (Guns'n'Ammo ?! :). fname WISHES lots of things like 
this were true, for reasons we don't yet know, but as Vonnegut says, if wishes 
were horses, beggars would ride.   

Have fun!

-- 
Grigore

######################################################
There wouldn't be wolves if there wouldn't be sheep.

                           - Romanian proverb
######################################################

In >  () writes:

>In article >,
>%FNAME% > wrote:
>>I agree with you wholeheartedly.
>>
>>IW
>
>Agree with whom?  It would help to include some text to which you are
>responding to.
>
>Joe

C'mon Joe, have you lost all your selfconfidence?  He was agreeing with
you, of course.

Dan :-)
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

 (lurch) wrote:

 (Lou Duchez) wrote:

>>In article >,
 (Ms. Bliss) wrote:

>>> >Mind you, if some of those gubmint funds were to go to something like, 
>>> >say, jobs-training so that folks could do better in the private sector, 

>Sorry, but if those same funds were spent by some other government
>agency for some other purpose, they would be just as pissed away.
>People spending money extorted or stolen from others really just don't
>care if they get results. In fact, they probably would rather not,
>because then they wouldn't get paid to keep trying.

>"Everything the Government touches turns to crap"---Ringo Starr  

Too true.

>>>  "There's a Bear in the Woods. Some say the bear is tame , some say
>>> it's hamless. If you are faced to face with the bear, do you run away,
>>> OR DO YOU BECOME STRONGER OR JUST AS STRONG AS THE BEAR?"

>>We've got nearly 50% of all the military hardware in the world, as I
>>understand it.  To pose any real threat, all the rest of the countries
>>in the world would have to get together to try to destroy us.  And
>>the Soviet Union is not much of a union these days, nor is it likely
>>to re-form into the terror that it was.  It's not only "hamless",
>>but "bearless" for the foreseeable future as well.

>The Soviet Union is in a desperate state. It's manufacturing base and
>infrastructure are in ruins (even moreso than ours), and dragging its
>citizenry and economy into the 20th century would require retooling

  The insane thing is that the solution is relatively simple.  HAND
OVER all (non-military) state assets (especially land) to the
citizens.  Every citizen gets a share.  Maintain a strict RULE OF LAW-
tanks in the streets  if necessary.  Dismantle utterly  the
no-military bureaucracy   -again using tanks if necessary.  Eliminate
any and all barriers to trade.
  The market  will quickly and easily liquidate bad assets and
concentrate ownership in the hands of the competent.  Recovery will
follow quickly.  Only problem I can see is that foreigners  will end
up running most of the show   Too bad for the Russkies.

>and a system of public works that the rest of the world (with pooled
>resources) could not afford to underwrite. In short, it is a doomed
>country. It is now in the process of making the transition from
>superpower (a status achieved, to the extent it existed beyond press
>imagery and Red Square parades, largely by squeezing out all but a few
>drops of the blood and sweat of it's citizenry) to a fractured and
>chaotic economic and social free for all, and will likely have a few
>civil wars along the way. Whether or not this barely controlled
>collapse will be confined to it's constantly shifting borders and
>satellities, and will be completed without the installation of truly
>radical leadership of the type likely to gamble on last ditch military
>adventurism, still remains to be seen. 

  I would suggest a military dictatorship with the above agenda as the
only possible hope.   Otherwise they're doomed.  They need a
libertarian military  dictatorship a la Korea/Chile/Taiwan.  To
maintain stability amongst chaos, some people will have to be shot.  

>Russia has cut back on conventional forces, but it still has plenty of
>nukes and has given deadly serious assurances that they will be used
>at the slightest provocation. Other weapons that are slightly out of
>date or superflous are now being peddled to the highest bidder. 
>The possibility that half the world will be turned into a big glass
>parking lot has not been lessened by the Soviet Union's troubles. In
>my opinion, quite the opposite is true.

>But, a lot of our hardware is not designed for nuclear confrontation.
>It's mostly for kicking the shit out of some crappy little country
>that's fucking up the price of something by fucking with one if it's
>neighbors, or buttressing one our own little repressive puppet states,
>like Israel, when we see the need for it. We are just as vulnerable as
>we ever were to a nuclear strike, and much more vulnerable to a
>terrorist detonation of nuclear device in some crowded population
>center.

>Most everything mankind constructs gets used sooner or later. We're
>still sitting around with thousands of missiles aimed at us and
>thousands of our own aimed at everybody else, and hoping that no
>government which has nukes under it's thumb is stupid enough to
>initiate the use of them. I think, in the long run, that is a lot to
>hope for, given the mainifest and short-sighted stupidity of most of
>them. 

>lurch

  Grantland

"Unbending intent and impeccability of spirit."
  Defeat is just one -an- other obstacle in the tedious path to Victory.
FORGET about Socialism - it's Dead!
  FUCK the CDA!
  
RHOVANION!

In article <news:>
 wrote:

>In article >,
>%FNAME% > wrote:
>>I agree with you wholeheartedly.
>>
>>IW
>
>Agree with whom?  It would help to include some text to which you are
>responding to.
>
>Joe

This is just the reverse of evading answers when he "disagrees".

Poor guy said it : "wholeheartedly".

For him there are no colours, and your ideas are one big chunk
that he can either entirely agree with (that is, lick your boots)
or completely disagree ( and spit his liver contents )

td

...................................................................

"Nu eu gindesc la partid, avem un colectiv de batrini care gindeste."
"It's not me who thinks for the party, we have a comitee of retirees who does"

 - Viorel Hrebenciuc, (PDSR big cheese), in timp ce vorbea (while talking)

I would be interested:
   1)  the average salary of a retail worker (elado)?
   2)  The average salary of a school teacher,
          a) in the country side,
          b) in Budapest
   3)  an engineer in the industry,
   4)  a trades person (electritian, plumber)

     Thank you.
         Peter 
         

>I would be happy to e-mail you the details.
--

(Walter Sheasby ) wrote:

>Visit  http://www.greens.org/california/waltbio.html
>  
>     Vote for WALT CONTRERAS SHEASBY for 27th Congressional District
>                 http://www.greens.org/california.html
>      ECOLOGY   NON-VIOLENCE   SOCIAL JUSTICE   GRASSROOTS DEMOCRACY   
>                                GREEN PARTY


I bet this clown would claim he is for conservation of resources.   I
counted lines in his post, out of a total of 79 lines, 65 could be
deleted without losing any content of the message.  That is an 82%
waste per message.   Then if one is to factor in the fact that Mr.
Sheasby's 27th Congressional District is certainly less than .5% of
the area covered by this message, and the repeats caused by the
massive cross posting, works out to about (819999/820000) waste, for a
..999999% waste of bandwidth (a valuable resource).   I wonder if he
would argue that the Internet is an infinite resource like was said
100 years ago about the No. Cal. forests, which Mr. Sheasby claims to
have published a paper to protect.  Wonder if he used recycled paper,
or virgin rain forest pulp, triple spaced with lots of pointless ascii
mud pies, and 10 blank lines at the end of every article.  

Sorry for the cross posted reply, followups set to
alt.activism,alt.kill.the.whales,alt.society.revolution,alt.politics.greens

Tom G.

 (elena danielyan) wrote:
>
>"%FNAME%" > writes:
>
>>Indeed,
>
>>But I remember hearing once that Romanians disliked Secretary of State Baker 
because they assumed 
>>his views on Romania to be influenced by his Hungarian wife  ( is that true?)
.  Once again, a 
>>typical Romanian reaction, it is always other people's fault fortheir shortco
mings, not their 
>>own
>
>>IW, 
>
>
>   Once again, without name, but with such hate to Romania that
> doesn't let him sleep even in Dallas! Another *S* version. 
> Must be International AbnonS Society.
>
>
>   Elena
>
>   
>
e to Romania that
> doesn't let him sleep even in Dallas! Another *S* version. 
> Must be International AbnonS Society.
>
>
>   Elena
>
>   
>I believe that you would do us all a big favor if you were to post something m
ore meaningful.

By the way I sleep very well, thank you for your concern.  Are you implying by 
any chance that 
criticism euqals hatred?  In fact, are you trying to say anything at all?


>
>
>>IW, 
>
>
>

On 14 May 1996  wrote:

> Peter Hakel  > wrote:
> >
> > I already pointed out in the past that statements like this wouldn't
> >improve the relationship between Hungarians and Slovaks. I'm sorry to
> >see you couldn't care less.
> 
> Peter,
> that response was to Charlie, not you, so I am at a loss about what
> you're talking about.  In fact, you are just confirming what I was
> writing to Charlie, namely that most Slovaks (including you, of course)
> can see through Frajkor's sophistry.
> 
> Joe

  Joe, I know that you responded to Charlie.

  What about this: Judging from the responses Istvan Csurka is getting
from his fellow Hungarians, even they can see what he's really like.

  To me this sounds like: Csurka is so extreme, that even those who
usually have problems comprehending simple things understand what's
going on in his case.

  Do you think I was overreacting? I don't think so. Some Slovaks think 
that Hungarians still feel the superiority which has its roots in the old
Hungarian Kingdom. Being non-diplomatic like this would only reinforce
this belief which makes developing a positive attitude difficult.


Peter Hakel

 wrote:
> It  could be argued that the old Soviet Union was not a communist
> state.  It was actually a capitalist state, just not in the
> traditional sense of the word.  I would be happy to explian MY view
> (the one that draws me to the above conclusion) if anyone would like
> me to do so.


Chris is right.  The Soviet Union was not really communist, at least not 
according to Marx's definition of a communist state.  Marx laid out some 
very specific stages that must be undergone in the development of a 
communist government.  Stalin skipped some very important stages (like 
capitalism) and forced a system that he called communism on the 
population.  

Theresa

 wrote:
>Cours 6412 > wrote:
>>
>>Another cheap shot from Joe Pannon.
>
>This is another way of saying it was a Bull's Eye, eh?

No. Simply cheap shot. Why ?

>>Couldn't be a plausible explanation the fact that the communist 

regimes
>>from the other Warsaw Pact countries where more obedient to the 
>>directives coming from Moscow ? Remember, Romania was the only one 
>>that hadn't russian troops stationed on her soil.
>
>Yes, the Russians weren't stupid and knew that Romanians can be held in
>check by their own commies alone. 

Yes that is quite possible. They knew that they could ease 
their task by not giving the anti-russian sentiments the chance
to manifest themselves. There were already those anti communist
fighters in the mountains.

But remember, that in that time stalinism was the main
trend. What I am trying to say is that the russians gave full
power to a particular nasty branch of communists.
Actually they didn't have such a large choice. 
The romanians didn't have a significant communist tradition.
(They were lacking Bela Kuns, Gheorghi Dimitrovs etc.)


>>Couldn't this mean that Romania was harder to influence than
>>a country that has russian bases on her soil ? 
>
>No, because this is a non-sequitur, if you know what that means.

Frankly not. But you can use logic symbols (NOT, AND, OR
"if" "then") and I'll understand. "C" syntax is OK.

Back to the main issue. I guess your reasoning was trying
to imply something like "if in the 50s the russians were so
confident that the romanian communists could handle the
situation by them self, without russian troops, that means 
they were able to easily control Romania even without
those troops".

Which is plain wrong. The concerns of Stalin in the 50s and those
of Gorbachev in the 80s were quite different. Stalin wanted
to make sure that it could instaurate a stalinist regime in
Romania (and he succeeded) while Gorbachev was trying to 
dismantle that regime. The difference is that Stalin had
the means  (russian troops) to do what he wanted while
Gorbachev didn't had those means.

Got it this time ?

>>Unfortunately romanians could not benefit as others from the 
>>"perestroika" and "glasnost" radiating from Moscow.
>
>Yes, Romanians could not even come up with their own perestroika

Be assured that if romanians had enjoyed a greater degree of 
freedom (by letting Gorbachev influence felt) they would have
come up with "their own" perestroika.

>>In november 1987 in Brasov (second largest city in Romania) there
>>has been an uprising.
>>It occurred while a fake election event was taking place.
>>It was a spontaneous movement that involved the workers of the
>>"Tractorul" factory (I think). I know that a mob of angry people
>>devastated the party and mayory buildings.
>
>Yes, I know about that.  But again, as I wrote to the Law Student, that
>event has nothing to do with the toppling of the Ceausescu regime in
>'89.


Let me remind you that the offensive part of your message was implying
that without Tokes romanians didn't had to guts to get rid of Ceausescu.

> Heck, while all of the East Bloc
> was already in the post-communist phase, everybody was wondering when,
> if ever, will Romanians hop on the train.
> Finally, you needed a Hungarian pastor to get you kick-started.
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The events of Brasov prove that the spark could have come at any moment.
It happened to be the event involving Lazlo Tokes.

I was in Bucharest when events took place.
On December 20, 1989 I have done something. I through some home made
manifestos at one of the entrances of my faculty. It was the last day 
of school before vacation and before the last rally organized by
Ceausescu. I don't dare to consider myself courageous or brave.
I am not. It also would be an insult to those who have paid with
their lives.
On 21 I have been at the University Plaza on 22 nearby the Radio 
studios on 23 and 24 at the Polytechnical University.
When the shooting started to come closer I run for shelter.
You know how a bullet whistle when it comes closer ? 

  My brother was more courageous. He has been in the most
dangerous places. While he was nearby the ministry of Defence 
a woman staying near him got shot and died instantly. The sniper
choose her to die instead of my brother or someone else.

  Our parents didn't tried to keep us at home and wait for the
situation to get calm. They told us that the TV station is
calling the students to come and "defend" their universities.

  My friend and once classroom mate Vlad Stoenescu had three bullets
passed through his chest. After many surgeries Thank God he is alive.

  And there are hundreds who have died. I am alive and well because
I took my precautions. But the least that I can do is to defend
their memory. Doamne odihneste-i in pace.


Cristian Alb

Can anyone help me with the translation of a caption beneath an engraving in a
Hungarian publication from the 19th Century.

The engraving shows a Rusyn peasant couple, the man playing a trembita, a
mountaineer's horn, and he's wearing a sheepskin coat over his shoulders.

The caption reads:
"Hazai nepviseletek : IX. Rusznyak csordas Ungmegyeben."

There is an accent over the first "e" in nepviseletek, after the "a" in
Rusznyak and csordas, and the second "e" in Ungmegyeben.

Thanks for any help you can give.

--tim cuprisin

%FNAME% ) wrote:

: Believe me, I want absolutely nothing.  I only sit back and rejoice in the ju
dgdment passed by 
: the civilized world against Romania who is being ignored by virtually every w
estern country.

Considering yours sour posts you didn't succeed too much with the
rejoicing part.
Next time try with a woman...

Cristian Alb

Alfa hangok - mobil vonalon

Orszagos eletvedo szovetseg alakult

        Az Alfa Szovetseg olyan polgari szervezetek kezdemenyezesere alakult
meg, amelyek egyetertenek abban, hog a tarsadalom jovojet elsesorban a ma
gyermekeinek biztonsaga, a gyermekvedelem eredmenyessege hatarozza meg. Az
uj orszagos szervezet kuzdeni kivan a magzati elet vedelmeert, meg akarja
menteni azokat a csecsemoket, amelyeket anyjuk elhagyna vagy elpusztitana.
        A Szovetseg olyan alapitvanyok es szervezetek tevekenyseget hangolja
ossze, amelyek segitseget nyujtanak a valsaghelyzetben levo terhes nonek es
csaladjanak abban, hogy a magzat biztonsagosan megszulethessek, es ver
szerinti szulei szemelyeben szereto csaladot kapjon, illetve, ha a gyermek
nem kivantkent jon a vilagra vagy csalad nelkul marad, hozzasegitik,. hogy
mielobb orokbefogado vagy nevelo csaladba keruljon.
        A fenti celok megvalositasahoz a szovetseg 19, regionkenti
munkatarsa egy-egy mobil telefont kapott, amelyet a hozzajuk fordulok
hivhatnak, s amellyel egymas kozott ingyen beszelhetnek. Ugyancsak
rendelkezesre all egy kozponti "zold szam", amely barhonnan dijmentesen
hivhato. A telefonszamokon (06-30-541-000-tol 06-30-541-018-ig az egyes
regiok szama, 06-80-541-019 a "zold szam") az "alfa hangok" olyan varandos
nok jelentkezeset varjak, akik allapotukat nem kivant tehernek erzik, es
segitseget kernek.
        A jelentkezoknek igeny szerint: lelki tamaszt nyujtanak,
tajekoztatjak lehetosegeikrol, a lakohelyhez legkozelebb allo egeszsegugyi
szolgaltatasokrol. Szukseg eseten a megfelelo tagszervezethez iranyitjak,
amely segitseget nyujt abban, hogy a szulesig tarto idoszakban kornyezete
elol elrejtozzek megfelelo egeszsegugyi ellatast is biztosito
kismama-otthonban, s esetleg a szulest kovetoen gyermekevel az otthonban
maradhasson. A tagszervezet anyagilag es termeszetbeni tamogatassal is
segiteni tudja ot es csaladjat, hogy kepesse valjon a szuletendo gyermek
fogadasara.
        Tehat ne feledjuk: 06-80-541-019 a "zold szam". INGYENES!!!

Javaslom, hogy a Freedom House jelentesenek tukreben, a Szabad Demokratak
Szovetsege valtoztassa at nevet Felig Szabad Demokratak Szovetsegeve.

De tolem akar meg is szunhetnek.

Tibor

O'dor Tibor