> When Lithuanians, Latvians or Estonians want to express their views on
> their problems, they write to <soc.culture.baltics>. When Russians feel
> like: "Vystupat khochu!", they write to as many newsgroups as their
> Usenet access program allows them to. Look at the addresses on top!
> 
> This is not to insult the Russians. I know some truly noble thinkers of

I agree; this whole shit does not even remotely belong to 
alt.sex.homosexual and similar groups. Tak chto, rebyata, sidite v 
alt.culture.russian (ili, esche lucshe, v 
alt.cretins.who.have.nothing.to.say) i ne zasoryaite set'.

K.M.

New WWW page and mailing list for doing business with Eastern Europe 

Have you subscribed to EEUROPE-BUSINESS yet?

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doing business in Eastern Europe - with clear mission that
subscribers are able  to post in it their offers and requests,
commercial or non-commercial (as long as they are related to
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Please switch into DIGEST mode immediately after subscribing
- especially if you pay for every e-mail message (this maillist is a
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address - <http://www.ijs.com/naafetee>; . 
> -----------------------------------------------------------
Ross Hedvicek  
> -----------------------------------------

Vlad Romascanu > wrote:
>
>	Now, I don't wish to hear any more crap about 'forced 
>colonisation' by the Romanians in order to diminish the Magyar 
>population, or about 'autonomy granted to Transilvania', its only 
>autonomy being of the same kind as that granted by The Gate to Wallachia 
>(political, but with control on the ruler), which was anyways rejected in 
>1867 by Francisc Iosif. I don't wish to read any more unfounded remarks 
>about dictators deciding the Union, and so on.

Yes Sir!
Now, where should we start drilling the holes for the stakes?

Panonescu

In article >,
Peter Hakel > wrote:

> On 12 Nov 1995, Nguyen Tri Duc wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>   Even if you had written something, it would have had nothing to do 
> with soc.culture.czecho-slovak. Please, stop cross-posting, thank you.
> 
> 
> Peter Hakel
________________________________________________________________________
Ty posrany rakosnici se serou vsude a do vseho.
Uz bylo na case,aby nguyen tri ducovi nekdo rekl,
  kam si ma strcit jeho "news"!Dobra prace pane Hakel.

Antonin Dvorak

In >  () writes:

>Vlad ROMASCANU  > wrote:
>>From news:
>>
>>ROMANIA DENIES BANNING HUNGARIAN TV CHANNEL. Romania's National Audio-
>>Visual Council has denied banning broadcasts of the Hungarian satellite
>>program Duna TV on cable network (see OMRI Daily Digest, 8 November),
>>Romanian media reported on 9-10 November. The controversial decision
>>aroused strong criticism among Romania's Hungarian minority. -- Matyas
>>Szabo
>
>Just like they always deny anything they are accused with.  They could
>just point out that there is no law against it, but then
>administratively making it impossible to get those cable permits.
>That's how they handled Hungarian requests to move into certain
>Transylvanian cities during the Ceausescu years.  Hungarians from the
>suburbs of the city could not move in, but Romanians from Oltenia could.
>That sure accelerated formerly largely Hungarian-populated cities turn
>into Romanian!  All by administrative methods.
>
>Besides, since when are you guys taking the government's denials at face
>value?

Do you have any proofs or only (your usual) hot air?

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

In > CHARLES VAMOSSY > w
rites:

 (Alexander Bossy) wrote:
> Go to your 
>>university library.  Ask your librarian to help you find books on 
>>Romanian history.  Look for any book in English or French published since 
>>1980.  
>
>Regardless of the subject, I somehow find it difficult to accept that any 
>history book published during the Ceucescu regime would find a great deal 
>of credibility.  

Alexander was, obviously, talking about books published abroad, not in
Romania.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

Vlad ROMASCANU  > wrote:
>	You didn't understand. One company had the authorisation, the other 
>didn't. And, of course, both 'struggle' for clients. You understand that 
>company #1 (the one with the authorisation) saw an opportunity in the #2 
>company's not having the authorisation to try to take the program (Duna TV ?) 
>off the #2 company's cable program and to 'force' the hungarian Duna-TV-
>watcher clients of company #2 to subscribe to #1.

This does not sound plausible in light of the fact that the original
protest came from the Hungarians in Transylvania in the first place!
Why would they raise such an international alarm over what you describe
is a local technicality?

>	I thought you knew some economics.

This is the first time I've heard your version of the story.
It needs a bit of corraboration before I take it more seriously than the
complaints of the Hungarians affected by the cable signal cut-off.

Joe

Peter Aradi  > wrote:

>1. ALL buses carrying HUNGARIANS to the quarantine barracks and 
>destined to the USA were "greeted" by the stick waving, rock throwing mob.

So why did you imply this to be a sign of anti-semitism?

>2. The second point you raise, that the mob was a frustrated group of 
>long-time residents is absolutely correct. They were stuck in the 
>refugee camp.

Good!  Now we're getting somewhere. 

> Where I disagree with you is the characterization that 
>preferential treatment were given to jews. All refugees desiring to 
>immigrate to the USA registered with the Embassy. Out of nearly 100,000 
>applicants 32,500 were selected. The criteria for selection was never 
>clarified, but having American relatives, sponsors, and a professional 
>education were certainly part of it. The PERCEPTION in the Salzburg camp 
>was that more jews were selected by the US than the should have. 

Well, PERCEPTIONS are REAL to those who have it.  But why do you think
it was only perception and it was not real?  I know it was REAL in 1967,
so why couldn't it be so 10 years earlier?  Mind you, I am not blaming
the Jews for that.  After all, most of the earlier processing was due to
their own Jewish charitable organizations, such as JOIN.  But I can see
how the ones stuck in the camps could have percieved it that it was
delaying their own admittance in host countries.

>Consequently the mob decided to take their frustration out on the bus 
>passengers. As stated before, the passengers were a mixed lot with no 
>separation by sponsoring organization nor identification by religion.

So again, the Jews were not singled out for the mob's violence, right?
>
>History is full of incidents where mob frustration leads to violence and 
>the nearest and most convenient minority group will serve as the scapegoat 
>for whatever real or imagined problems. In East European and Hungarian 
>history this scapegoat group was often the local jewry. Today there is a 

I think you are contradicting yourself here when you admit that the mob
did not single out Jews, yet at the same time you are sounding the
anti-semitism alarm.  I think this is overreaction on your part.

>live debate in Europe which looking for scapegoats because of the excesses 
>of communism, modernization, liberalism, and capitalism. Once again at 
>various places jews are among these scapegoats and being blamed for the 
>ills of the left, liberalism and communism, as well as the ills of 
>capitalism, the so called banking conspiracy. 

Well, how many former Communists do you know of in Hungary who have been
convicted for their activities?

>So to restate my point: I am not returning to what I am still considering 
>my native country, my home country, because I don't want to be the next 
>designated scapegoat by any frustrated mob.

Good!  The last thing they need over there is another voice shouting
"anti-semitism!" where there is none.

Joe Pannon

Hey,nguyen tri duc, stop whimpering and go see doctor
   "Al Bendover",he'll fix you up.

Antonin Dvorak

In > CHARLES VAMOSSY > w
rites:

>No responsible person is advocating changing the borders.

I do agree with this.  Hence, all the advocates of an independent
Transylvania are irresponsible.  They're mostly Hungarians from the USA,
BTW :-)

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

In >  (George Szaszvari) writes:

>In article >,  (Dan Pop) says:
>>And the primary reason it is unlikely is that the Romanians, who form the
>>absolute majority of Transylvania's population (by a large margin) don't
>>want it.  Looks like a very good reason to me.
>
>..and to me: but Romanians are not in that large a majority in ALL 
>areas, although Ceacescu's cronies worked hard at diminishing Romanian 
>minorities by *encouraging* migrations of various groups. That's why 
>I wrote *unlikely*.

With or without Ceausescu's efforts, my comment is still true.  And it
was true in 1918, the year when Ceausescu was born, as well.

Dealing with smaller areas, where the Romanians are in minority would 
mean creating ethnic enclaves.  We have enough examples of how this
creates far more problems than it solves.

The real solution is local autonomy for _everybody_.  Unfortunately, HDRU
(UDMR/RMDSZ) didn't want to join its efforts to the rest of the opposition
to achieve this goal and preferred to fight alone for a solution only for
the Hungarian minority.  They will never succeed, even if the opposition
will win the next elections.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

 () wrote:
>
>From the news:
>
>>HUNGARIAN TV BROADCASTS BANNED IN ROMANIA. Hungarian media on 8 November
>>reported that Romania's National Media Council has decided to ban
>>broadcasts by Duna TV, a Hungarian satellite program on cable network.
>>The head of the council told ethnic Hungarian deputy Ferenc Baranyi that
>>no license will be issued to cable television companies "for a certain
>>period of time." He said that according to information received by the
>>council, Duna TV broadcasts create suspicion between ethnic minorities
>>and the majority and are capable of "whipping up artificial tension." --
>
>What's next?  Jamming the satellite signals like in the good old days
>jamming RFE?
>I wonder what CE will have to say about this.
>
>JP
>

D'oh...

From news:

ROMANIA DENIES BANNING HUNGARIAN TV CHANNEL. Romania's National Audio-
Visual Council has denied banning broadcasts of the Hungarian satellite
program Duna TV on cable network (see OMRI Daily Digest, 8 November),
Romanian media reported on 9-10 November. The controversial decision
aroused strong criticism among Romania's Hungarian minority. -- Matyas
Szabo

--

Vlad Romascanu                                      
         '
_[E_O_Msg]_____________________________________________________________________

In > CHARLES VAMOSSY > w
rites:

 (Alexander Bossy) wrote:
 wrote:
>>
>>: Since when is it that Romanians determine who represents Transylvania
>>: Hungarians' interests?
>>
>>	Since 1918, when the Transylvanian Hungarians became Romanian 
>>citizens. ;-)
>>
>
>>	Alexander
>
>So much for democracy in Romania.  
>
>Even the ethnic Hungarians' interests, accoriding to Alexander, must be 
>represented by Romanians.

Ask someone to explain you what the ";-)" symbol is supposed to mean.
This might give you a clue.

>Although there are between 1.5 to 2 million Hungarians live there 
>(depends on your source), but not a single one can entrusted to represent 
>their own interests.

Brilliant.  Have you ever heard of the party called Hungarian Democratic
Union of Romania (or something like this, the Hungarian initials are RMDSZ).
This party represents the Hungarians in Romania and _none_ of its members
is Romanian.  This party won about 7% of the votes at the last general
elections and has a corresponding number of seats in the Romanian
Parliament.

Try to check your facts before posting silly comments.

Dan
--
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

Loomis ) wrote:
: DACIA FELIX DID EXIST FROM MORE THAN 3000 YEARS. 

If Romania's precursor is really over 3000 years old, than how 
could you claim yourself to be the descendant of the Roman empire?
(which is a very popular claim)

: IN MODERN TIME IS
: NAMED ROMANIA,but easely can be called also DACIA .Our sacred 
: land use to have different borders than today, ancient Dacia 
: borders contained at that time today,s Ungaria, part of Ucraine, 
: Bulgaria,part of today,s Yugoslavia.

Sure.  Tell me more.   BTW, I've heard a slightly different 
story from people (ie: Liviu) who appears to be a little more
knowledgeable.

: dominate the little guy.Mister Janos, try to study more History

Shall I go to a Rumanian school to study history, perchance?  ;-)

: than you will find all the facts,

You know, there's a big difference between facts and facts.

 wrote:
> In article >,  > wrote
:
> >
> >    This is just an observation because I don't care one way or the next 
> >about the language that students in romania learn in.  However you might 
> >take the recent vote in quebec as a motive to stop lingual diversity in 
> >transylvania.  This has happened in the united states where a congress 
> >man (from my state even)as a result of recent event in Canada has 
> >introduced a law that will effectly outlaw the teaching of lower level 
> >classes in languages other than english.

> The situation in the US and in Romania is not comparable.  Hungarians in
> Transylvania are not recent immigrants there as those in the US who want
> bilingual education for themselves.  There is a difference in how they
> became strangers in the respective countries: in one case the border
> moved and the people stayed, in the other the people moved and the
> border stayed.  When I immigrated to the US, it would not have crossed
> my mind that somehow the natives owed me the maintenance of my Hungarian
> culture.  Is this such a difficult distinction to make?

> Joe Pannon

   I don't think it is that diffrent and this is why:
     1.  When/How a subculture comes to exist has no effect on how they react 
to the political situation as long as they are the same in other respects.  
This means that the law in the US is ment to prevent a subculture that cannot 
interact or will not interact with the larger culture because of a language 
barrier.
     2.  This situation could exist in Romania where hungarian communities 
keep to them selves and dont even learn Romanian.  NOTE:  I am not claiming 
this is the case now (it may be but I don't know) but it is the argument that 
I was speaking of.

   Now that I have made that argument I would like to point out that I don't 
think that the threts posed by such a subculture (in the US)are of large enugh 
magntude to warrent all the ngeative effect of the bill in question.  


Regards,
Scott

In article >,  (
Dr. Dimitri Vulis says:

* >Ever since the fall of Communism, 

You know Vulis, I do not appreciate distortion of facts and language.
Also, I'd rather to call a spade a spade. If one uses distorted termins,
it would become an obsticle in a long run, growing like a snowball.
Now, please tell us, when there was a Communism and in which country?
Being led by a politcal power called "Communist Party", it doesn't make
a Communism as political state system. You can start explaining from
going back in the square one and continue step by step, without jumping
to teh irrational conclusions. On teh otehr hand, you can admit your
mistake of using of incorrerct language and publicly apologize for saying
above frase.

Polubog.

Kedves Mindenki!

Egy baratom, Forizs Laszlo kert meg, akinek jelenleg nincs Internet elerese,
hogy tegyem kozze a kovetkezoket:


Csaladjanak nagyobb vagyona volt Erdelyben, es ugy ertesult, hogy lehetseges a
karpotlasa a magyarorszagra vandoroltaknak is.
Ezen karpotlasi ugyek intezesehaz keresne csaladja egy megbizhato ugyvedet,
aki jartas a romaniai karpotlasi ugyekben.
Nagyon megkoszonnenk, ha barki tudna ilyen iranyu informacioval szolgalni.


Mivel Forizs Laszlo teljes bizalmat elvezem, arra kernek mindenkit, hogy
aki barmit tud, kuldjon levelet az  cimre.

Segitseguket megegyszer elore is koszonjuk,

Forizs Laszlo es Odor Tibor

Wally Keeler ) wrote:
> Charles Vamossy wrote:
> >And should the Hungarians in Transylvania decide to test their strength
> >and call for a referendum about autonomy -- would Romania conduct the >
> >polling with the same scrupulous fairness as Canada did?

> Scott Laws wrote:
> >    They would loose so does it matter?

> True enough. However, there could be a slow evolution of culture that
> might make the Magyars and Romanians in Transylvania consider themselves
> as distinct from the rest of Romania, then add to this, a widening
> economic disparity between Transylvanians and their slovenly southern belt
> cousins, and maybe we'll begin to see the idea of Transylvanian autonomy
> take root. By this means, Transylvanians would consider themselves as
> bilingual and bicultural society that could share the best features of
> each other and in turn exploit good neighbourly relations with Hungary and
> Romania as an equal state. It may be worth encouraging.
> -- 
> Wally Keeler					Poetry
> Creative Intelligence Agency			is
> Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency


   This ties in to the point I was making.  Do the romanian people want to be 
divided?  If not why would they do somthing that could very well lead to the 
above situation?

Regards,
Scott

P.S.  This is the argument but that does not mean that I agree with all of 
its points.

Vlad ROMASCANU ) wrote:

> 	And, BTW, in Europe the tendency is 'UNITY', not 'separatism'. Well, 
> foreign-country fragmentation DOES suit US, but that doesn't mean AT ALL it's
 a 
> good, or even acceptable choice. Of course, who's big is powerful. The same t
hing 
> is valid for Russia. And of course, the task of the new, conservative Russia,
 once 
> back as a mondial power, will only be facilitated if it finds an even MORE di
vided 
> (Eastern) Europe.

Not that I disagree with you main point that a seprat transylvania as Wally 
was referring to is unrealistic.  But, I do disagree with this point.  The 
very nature of eastern europe and europe as a whole is one of sepratism.  
America was populated by so many ethnic groups that the lines dividing them 
blended and a new culture was born.  In europe a German moving into a difrent 
country will live with Germans there and in 100 years their children will 
still be looked at by them selves and others around them as german. The same 
is true of almost any culture in europe.  I would say that the sepritism in 
canada is not a result of american culture but of european culture that is 
trying stay european.




> 	Cheers.

> --

> Vlad Romascanu                                      .
ca
>          '
> _[E_O_Msg]___________________________________________________________________
__

Regards,
Scott

From:  (6 Nov 1995)
Subject: Romanian solution for the Hungarian problem?
Message-ID: >
References: > >

>Loomis > writes:
>>Nu le plac legile in Romania, au alternativa sa se 
>>repatrieze in Ungaria iar acolo pot continua "lupta de clasa" 
>>pentru "autonomie" in Tibet, Mongolia sau prin alte parti de 
>>unde vin Hunii.Acest soi de "revolutie" are iz de debandada, 
>>haos si barbarism. E TIMPUL CA SI HUNII SA SE ADAPTEZE LA 
>>ORDINE, MUNCA SI RESPECT, CACI CE  INCEARCA SA FACA EI 
>>AZI(intoarcerea vremurilor apuse) PUTE RAU...                             
  

Panonescu wrote:
>Hey, Traian Romanul!  
>I sure like that REEEEL Roman name, but are you too embarressed to post
>that stuff in English, so more people can see what you are about?
>Come on, I dare ya'!

I dare him also. Concerning the "autonomous province" of Quebec, the Anglo-
oppressors were able to utilize the imports, aka "ethnics" to keep the
country whole. Much to the chagrin of the Anglos, they will have to raise
the immigration quota here. The sweet irony is that Canadian-borns don't
know how to keep their country whole, so they have to import outsiders to
save us from ourselves. Tibet has imported a lot of Chinese and this serves
to keep Tibet "autonomous." within China. 
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

In article >,  (Dan Pop) says:
>
>In >  (George Szaszvari) writes
:
>
>>BTW are there are any Hungarian locations left in Transylvania that
>>escaped the Ceacescu policy of resettlement to artificially create
>>Romanian majorities where they did not exist before?
>
>Yep.  The regions that had Hungarian majorities before Ceausescu have them
>today, as well (the counties of Covasna and Harghita).  So much for the
>efficiency of Ceausescu's policy.  Nobody really forced a Hungarian to
>migrate from his home town/village to another place.  At worst, a college
>graduate had to spend 3 years somewhere else, regardless of his/her
>nationality. 

Okay, but the subject matter is really about Romanian speakers who were 
deliberately resettled in places with Hungarian speaking majorities in 
order to dilute those majorities.

>I graduated during the worst days of Ceausescu's regime.  All my Hungarian
>colleagues managed to get jobs in Transylvania, right after graduation,
>even if not in their home towns (as engineers, they couldn't get jobs
>in their home villages, anyway :-)

I was last in Romania in 1982, the time after British forces had just 
relieved Galtieri's forces of their responsibilities in the Falklands 
(which was a very big talking point then), visiting relatives in
Kolozsvar and Csikszereda (in your mentioned Harghita). I've since confined 
my visits to Hungary. The paranoia in Romania was surrealistic; Hungary was 
already considered *The West* by all *Romanian citizens* I met then. Has 
anything really changed?

George

**** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, UK ***
*
** Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address:  *
*
What's this? An ARM Club (Acorn RISC computers) member using Windoze?!  *:0)

Dear peoples of Hungary.

For 20 years now, I have been able to enjoy your rich culture in Canada 
and *wonderful* food.  I am the son of a hungarian immigrant into canada 
who moved in the 50's.  Something has been bothering me for a few years 
now (mainly since my mother's death)...

My mother's side of the family is predominaty british, and they all seem 
to not include me and my father in family activities "due to our ethnic 
culture".  I am not even allowed to see my cousins anymore.

Has anybody had to face this inhumanity?  How do I deal with it.  I get 
so angry just thinking about it, but I rely on my ability to teach math 
and computers as tutoring at my college in Owen Sound, Ontario.

Could I get some helpful advice from anybody out there?

Koszonom,


"I love you more than you will ever know" - someone, someplace, sometime.

:I agree; this whole shit does not even remotely belong to 
:alt.sex.homosexual and similar groups. Tak chto, rebyata, sidite v 
:alt.culture.russian (ili, esche lucshe, v 
:alt.cretins.who.have.nothing.to.say) i ne zasoryaite set'.

Are you implying there are no homosexual Russians?

I think that's very narrow minded of you.  Homosexuality, while more 
popular in America, is not an exclusively American phenomenon.

Now that Communism has loosened up media censorship in the former Soviet 
Union, Russians can enjoy pornography, pedophilia, sodomy, and all kinds of 
American indoor sports!

I would think the gay community would take a nod from the Billy Gramm 
crusade and use this opportunity to force their lifestyle on unsuspecting 
Russians.

In much the same way they have forced it on us here in America.

Jaffo

__________

Have you seen the Jaffo Home Page today?
Aim your browser at:  http://rampages.onramp.net/~jaffo
New Links and Original Fiction added every day!
Free whitespace with every visit!

:	Could you, perhaps, take it elsewhere?  Along with the rest of
:these related threads?  And out of, say, alt.internet.media-coverage,
:misc.news.internet.discuss [if that's where it's supposed to be going],
:and the rest of the unrelated groups?  
:	
:	Thanks.
:
:
				- Tim Skirvin )
--
<a href="http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/tskirvin">Skirv's Homepage</a>
<a href="http://arh0062.urh.uiuc.edu/killfile.html">The Daemons</a>

This man uses HTML in his sig.  Given his obvious technical prowess, I 
think we should all do what he says.

Jaffo

__________

Have you seen the Jaffo Home Page today?
Aim your browser at:  http://rampages.onramp.net/~jaffo
New Links and Original Fiction added every day!
Free whitespace with every visit!

[Newsgroups trimmed, but a lot's still left]

Nguyen wrote:

o Proud to be gay,
o Proud to know the Russians and Chinese are not my enemies,
o
o -nguyen tri duc

In article >  (Ant
onin Dvorak) responds:

o Hey,nguyen tri duc, stop whimpering and go see doctor
o    "Al Bendover",he'll fix you up.

On the contrary, Antonin, I found Nguyen's sentiment highly dignified
and admirable. 
--
- M

This is a custom soc.culture.magyar-specific signature

In article > Sorin Voinigescu > writes:
>CHARLES VAMOSSY > wrote:
>>I can't help but reflect on the recent vote in Quebec and how a similar 
>>vote might have taken place in Transylvania.
>>

A similar "vote" did take place in 1919 in Alba Iulia. For some reason, 
Romanians living in Transylvania did not like to be part of Hungary. 

Looks very similar to the situation in Quebec. It is difficult for a 
national group to be part of a country where the central governement
decides what national standards  apply to education, culture, 
telecommunications, etc.

"Arne C. Kolstad" > skriver:
>  wrote:

> >If Sonar5 is even remotely like Chris Moore--then he'll want to blame
> >everything from single parenthood to the fact that other people have
> >different religious beliefs to fluke accidents on immigrants.
> >
> >People like them make me ashamed of Americans.
> >
> >Their stupidity traverses the entire Internet and gives others the worst
> >view or aspect of Americans...
> >
> >
> >They exemplify the phrase "Ugly Americans"...

> I hereby guarantee that you will meet *at least* one ugly Swede before 
> Christmas. If no such thing happens, I invite you to the julebord of 
> Nidaros Skytterlag. 

Jag vet inte vilket är mer skrämmande: en ful svensk eller julbordet
med Trondheims skyttelag...
--
Kurt Swanson, Department of Computer Science, Lund University.
 (http://www.dna.lth.se/home/kurt/)

Frank J. Straka ) wrote:
: Now here in
: Calgary, at least the Canadian Legion recognises the fact that even
: though Hungarians were supposed allies of the Axis Powers, they were
: unwilling and unco-operative allies at best and quite subversive when
: they had a chance.  i

This is, of course, pure fabrication. 

Hunagry's assistance (as well as Poland's) was considered by Nazi
Germany to be essential in 1938 to the final carve up of Czechoslovakia.
Of course Hunagry took the opportunity to conquer southern Slovakia and 
to overrun the newly independent Ruthenia.

When Operation Barbarossa began, Hungary joined, but needed to convince 
Hitler to be incorporated, since the original plan had been for HUngary
to remain "neutral".

(See Shirer's book on the rise and fall of the Third Reich, for example)

It should also be noted that Hungary and Croatia were the last nations
still fighting together with Nazi Germany --- as late as May 1945. Every
other ally, coerced or otherwise, had "jumped ship" by then.

As odious as Nazi Germany is in retrospect, it was not seen as such in i
the 1930's by many nations. I have heard (but I do not know whether this
is true) that A. Hitler was "Time"'s Man of the Year sometime (1936?).
Certainly Hitler's Germany was viewed very positively in the anglophone world
for its firmly anti-Communist stand and many nations soughht to curry favour.

Hitler's Germany was seen by Horthy's Hungary as a natural ally. All this
is perfectly understandable, even to those who do not agree with such
political thoughts. Thne objecvtions are to the grounds for such
collusion and allegiance, not to the fact of them per se.

What is contemptible is the denial of these facts. Any honourable person 
would admit that Horthy's Hungary had backed the wrong horse.

d.A.

Internationale vereniging zoekt vrijwillige medewerkers om de
vriendschap over alle volkeren en landen heen te bevorderen. Ons doel
is mensen van over de hele wereld met elkaar in contact te brengen, de
emancipatie te bevorderen en elkaars cultuur en gebruiken te leren
kennen door briefwisseling en andere middelen.

Wij zoeken per land teksten met de typische gebruiken waarmee je als
vreemdeling rekening moet houden bij correspondentie of bezoek. Kan
jij deze teksten ook foutloos in andere talen omzetten dan rekenen wij
op je vriendelijke medewerking.

Geďnteresseerd ? Schrijf ons vandaag : International Friendship.
Postbus 229, NL-4560 AE Hulst, Nederland, Europa of stuur een e-mail
aan 

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International organisation is looking for voluntary co-operators to
stimulate friendship over nations and countries. Our aim is to bring
people in touch with each other from all over the world, stimulate
emancipation, help people learn to know each others culture and
customs by correspondence and other means.

Per country we are looking for texts about typical habits a foreigner
has to take into account when corresponding or visiting. If you are
also able to translate these texts into other langua ges without
errors we count on your kind co-operation.

Interested ? Write us today : International Friendship. P.O.Box 229,
NL-4560 AE Hulst, The Netherlands, Europe or e-mail us at


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Association Internationale cherche collaborateurs volontairs pour
favoriser l'amitié par toutes les nations. Notre but est de mettre en
contact des gens de tout le monde, de faciliter l'intégra tion et de
les faire connaissance de différent cultures et coutumes en utilisant
la correspondence et par d'autres activitées.

Nous cherchons par pays des textes conçernant les coutumes typiques
avec lesquelles l'étranger doit tenir compte.

Si vous avez la possibilitée de faire la traduction sans fautes en
autres langues, nous comptons sur votre collaboration amicale.

Interessé? Envoyez-nous votre reponse ŕ International Friendship.
Boîte postale 229, NL-4560 AE Hulst, Pays-Bas, Europe. E-mail :


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