Dan Pop ) wrote:
> In >  () writes:

> >Not that I disagree with you main point that a seprat transylvania as Wally 
> >was referring to is unrealistic.  But, I do disagree with this point.  The 
> >very nature of eastern europe and europe as a whole is one of sepratism.  

> Of Europe as a continent, yes.  Of most European countries, definitely not.
> The only countries that fell apart were the two federal states with a
> multinational structure in Eastern Europe (I'm omitting the USSR, which was
> an empire, not a country).  The internal cohesion of the other European
> countries is as good as anywhere else, even in multinational countries
> where the various nations aren't on very good terms, like Belgium or,
> to a smaller extent, Switzerland.

> Dan
> --
> Dan Pop
> CERN, CN Division
> Email:  
> Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

  I cant say that I disagree with you seeing as other than romanian I 
have not yet had the chance to visit the rest of europe, and can only 
speek from what I have read.

Regards,
Scott

Wally asks:
: Are you Canadian at all or just over here to suck a bit of good economy
: because your original Romanian mothers milk is too sour? Huh?

Vlad Romascanu replies:
|    This reminds me the question "Are you a true American ? On which side 
|are you ?". Were your colonizing ancestors true Canadians ? Did they come 
|here because they were willing to become Canadians? No, Wally, they
|didn't.

Blanket statements like this are highly inaccurate and you know it. My
"ancestors" came from all over the world. Many of them came because they
were sick and tired of the same old crap crap crap from their native lands
-- the dictatorshits & wars & interethnic hatreds. Many more than you think
were quite willing to become Canadians (or Americans).

Vlad wrote:
|    No, Wally, I am now both Canadian and Romanian, even if I don't 
|have the citizenship yet. Legally, I am not Canadian, but now I am both 
|of them. 

You are only Romanian. You are not Canadian. Simple as that.

Vlad wrote:
|    And to answer your question, YES, I did come here for a beter 
|economical situation, and not because 'of the War [in Romania]', or 
|because of 'religious conflicts which tear all the Eastern Europe', or 
|other reasons. Oh, yes. People ask me: 'Why did you come here ? Because 
|of the War ?'. And in the philosophy book, under a nice picture of a 
|demolished library in Sarajevo, it is written "...religious wars that 
|tear all the Eastern Europe'. Yes, Wally. Your ancestors came to Canada
|for a better (economical) life, or just to change it. So did I. So did 
|the Irish. And so did the French.

Except that the vast majority of them became Canadians and didn't treat
their host country as a doormat like you do.
-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Just a minute ago I answered a posting which tried to present the figure  
of Bishop Laszlo Tokes as that of an anti-romanian propagandist. However, I  
had no idea about the claimed membership of Tokes in the party leaded by  
Mr. Csurka (MIEP, if I recall it correctly). Any contribution on this  
subject is welcome, I suppose that readers of the scr/scm from Hungary  
could confirm/infirm this allegation.

 Many thanks in advance.

 Best regards,  

 Lehel


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Dorin Ungureanu > wrote:
>
>You will notice that although britanica mentions both schools of thought
>on this issue, they only expand on the theory which holds true the fact
>that the ethnogenesis of the Romanian people occurred in Dacia, and that
>this process was finished by the time the Hungarians showed up in Transylvania
.
>Also the assimilation of slavic people  is mentioned in this text. That explai
ns
>the existence of slavic words in the Romanian language.

Dorin,
with your nice last name (!) I expected something else from you.
What you showed to me looks like the Encyclopedia editors lifted much of
that stuff from Romanian history books.  Just like the authors of
various travel books, etc.  I hope you really don't think that
encyclopedist do their indpendent research on stuff they put into those
volumes.  They just compile things and edit it.

Joe

Legyen szabad egy oreg embernek kijavitani az itt talalhato sok-sok teves 
allitast ???????

2. Az első zsidótörvény nem 1936-ban volt, hanem korábban, sokkal
>>>korábban.

			Absolut tevedes !!!!! Semmifele zsidotorveny nem 
volt 1938 elott !

	Az elso zsido torvenyt a magyar Parlament ( amit zsidotorvenynek 
neveznek..) 1938-ban hozta es a amsodikat, mely sokkal sizgorubb volt (pl. 
zsido nem lehetett katonatiszt stb 1939-ben )
	Az elso zsido torveny sem volt olyan "lagy":  allami alalsokbol 
kitettek a zsido VALLASUAKAT  ( a II zsidotorvenyben mar a szarmazast is 
bizonyotani kellt, nagyjabol a nurnbergi torvenyek modjan- de annal sokkal 
enyhebbek voltak a  kovetelesek: aki 1919-elott attert annak ( omaga) 
utodai nem szmaitottak zsidoknak, es meg sok konnyites is volt ( 
kereszteny feleseg stb.)
A masodik zsidotorveny az szigoritott. Mar az elso is kizarta az 
ujsagirasbol, ujsagtulajdonbol a zsidokat( lasd a Szinhazi Elet 
megszuneset...)

>
>>Az amit ezen a neven tartanak szamon az 1936 bol szarmazik. A
>>kesobbiekhez kepest szinte artatlan kis torvenyecske volt, megtiltotta
>>a zsidoknak az ingatlanbirtoklast egy meret folott amire nem emlekszem,
>>meg eltiltotta oket bizonyos palyaktol.

Maximalis tevedes !!!!!
HELYESBITES !!!!!!!!
	1936-ban semmifele emgkotottseg nem volt, sot meg a Felvidek 
visszafoglalasaban zsido tisztek is resztvettek- mint behivott tartalekos 
tisztek. Amit irtok fent abbol SEMMI sem stimmel. A foldbirtok korlatozasa 
 meg az 1939-es torvenyben sem szerepel ha nem tevedek. ( 1939-ben amikor 
nagykorusitottak foglalkoztam a  gondolattal, hogy veszek egy cca 120 
holdas birtokot- amennyiben ez tilos lett volna aligha merult volna fel a 
gondolat.>
..
>
>Én abban a hitben éltem, hogy a zsídó vallásúak egyetemi felvételének
>korlátozása a huszas évek elejére datálódik (21-re emlékeztem..), ami
>korai Horthy rendszer reakciója volt hogy a bolsevik diktatúra vezetésé-
>ben  résztvevő zsidó lumpenértelmiségiek, khm, izé.... túlreprezentált-
>ságára.

         Bizony ez sem stimmel. Az un. numerus clausus- mert igy hivtak a 
rendelekzest, CSAK az orvosi karra vonatkozott, ahova csak az osszletszam 
20 %-a lehetett zsido a felvetelnel. Minden mas karra - pl. jogra- minden 
korlatozas nelkul vettek fel zsido hallgatokat, egeszen 1939-ig, amikor is 
a felveteli letszmaot 6 %-ra csokkentettek- de 6 5-ot meg akkor is 
fellvettek-es az utolso pillanatig jartak zsidok egyetemre.(  pontosabban 
1944 szeptemberig.)  Megjegyzendo az is, hogy az orvostanhallgatokat 
egeszen 1942-ig felmentettek a munkaszolgalatra valo bevonulastol es a 
rabbikepzosoket 1944 szeptemberig nem bantottak ! 


>
>>>Ezen okok következtében a "viszonylag demokratikusan hatalomra ke-
>>>rult kormanytol indult el" kifejezésed teljességgel értelmezhetetlen.
>
>>Hat en ugy gondoltam erthetoen fogalmaztam, vagy legalabbis en er-
>>tettem, amit irtam. Probaljam meg ujra, vagy hagyjam annyiban ?
>
>Te azt állítod, hogy demokratikus körülmények között születtek ezek
>a törvények, én azt mondom, hogy nem. A Horthy-régime korai 2-3
>évének keménysége szerintem összemérhető a Kádári, 56 utáni évek-
>beli viszonyokkal. Késöbb sem lett demokratikusabb állam belőle,
>csak konszolidáltabb.


	Anelkul, hogy az osszehasonlitast szerencsesnek tartanam 
megjegyzendo, hogy Horthy idejeben valasztott Parlament volt- igaz a 
valasztas a videkeken- falukban nyilt ( un. lajstromos ) volt- de volt 
tobb part igy a Rassai fele liberalis part, vagy Szocialdemokrata part es 
a Kisgazda part.  A Parlament tobbsege persze nem lehet mondani, hogy 
baloldali beallitottsagu lett volna...de ami a lenyeg- nem egypart 
rendszeres diktatura volt- hogy a felsohazrol ne is beszeljunk, ahol meg a 
zsido egyhaz kepviseloje is resztvett.

	A Horthy fele kemenyebb korszak csupan nehany evig tartott ( 1923 
ig mondjuk ) az sem volt kifejezetten zsidoelelnes- inkabb 
kommunistaellenes volt. A polgari beallitottsagu zsidoknak, 
ertelmisegnek,orvosoknak stb absolute semmi bajuk azzal nem volt.
 Igaz ugyan, hogy foleg kitert, de zsidok-szuletesuknel fogva, voltak 
alalmiallasokban sot az un. kormanyfotanacsosi rangot is elertek- ami 
meltosagos ur megszolitassal jart...

	Bizony meglepo, hogy ennyire nem ismeritek csupan egy 60 evvel 
ezelotti idok tortenetet sajat hazankban...Persze enyhito korulmeny, hogy 
az "atkos"-ban minderrol nem tanitottak, vagy ha igen akkor erosen 
elferditve a valosagot. Horthy maga messze nem volt nazi, erosen 
angolbarat volt, nemetellenes volt. Altalaban a magyar arisztokracia 
tulnyomo resze nem volt nazierzuletu.  Szalasi hivei eppen a 
lumpenproletariatus soraibol kerultek ki-es magat Szalasit Horthy birosaga 
bortonre itelte a 30-as evekben. ( mint egykoron Hitlert )

Florenta Banateanu > wrote:

>2. And a question: how many referanda have been held in Europe before and 
>immediately after WWI?
>
I don't know...  One referendum I do know about was held in the city and 
region of Sopron (Odenburg in German).  This part of Hungary was to be 
transferred as part of the Treaty of Trianon to Austria as part of 
Burgenland.  The residents of the area demanded and got the right to hold 
a plebicite.  

When the city was originally told that it will be transferred to 
Austria, the students of Sopron sent out a call to the rest of the 
country calling for their support.  A contingent of students from the 
Technical University of Budapest (Muszaki Egyetem) answered the call and 
a contingent went to Sopron and stood guard so that the Austrian 
gendarmerie would not enter.  There was a brief clash and three students 
were killed.  This tragedy shook up both the Hungarians and the Austrians 
and they agreed to jointly request the plebicite.

One of the students killed in Sopron was my great uncle, Tibor Vamossy.

Charles Mikecz Vamossy

BTW.  as you may have guessed, Sopron voted to remain Hungarian.

Many people have sex at home..




On 16 Nov 1995, John Bowling wrote:

> Date: 16 NOV 1995 02:51:47 GMT 
> From: John Bowling >
> Newgroups: soc.culture.russian, soc.culture.ukrainian, soc.culture.soviet,
>     soc.culture.magyar, soc.culture.polish, soc.culture.romanian,
>     soc.culture.czecho-slovak, soc.culture.europe, soc.culture.baltics,
>     soc.culture.usa, alt.current-events.russia, alt.current-even
> Subject: Re: "The Russians Are Cumming!" 
> 
> In article >, Jaffo > wrote:
> >
> >:I agree; this whole shit does not even remotely belong to 
> >:alt.sex.homosexual and similar groups. Tak chto, rebyata, sidite v 
> >:alt.culture.russian (ili, esche lucshe, v 
> >:alt.cretins.who.have.nothing.to.say) i ne zasoryaite set'.
> >
> >Are you implying there are no homosexual Russians?
> >
> >I think that's very narrow minded of you.  Homosexuality, while more 
> >popular in America, is not an exclusively American phenomenon.
> ^^^^^^^^  What?????                        ^^^^^^^^ describes a hemisphere,
> not a country!  I am a U.S. or A. citizen, not an American.
> Is someone from Mexico NOT an American.  They certainly ARE Americans.
> 
> >
> >Now that Communism has loosened up media censorship in the former Soviet 
> >Union, Russians can enjoy pornography, pedophilia, sodomy, and all kinds of 
> >American indoor sports!
> >
> >I would think the gay community would take a nod from the Billy Gramm 
> >crusade and use this opportunity to force their lifestyle on unsuspecting 
> >Russians.
> >
> >In much the same way they have forced it on us here in America.
>                                 ^^^^^^
> It was never forced on anyone.  Did some guy FORCE you to have sex with him?
> If that happoned, it was probably a heterosexual who was into a power/control
> trip, like most rapists.
> 
> What some people think of as forcing the gay lifestly is an honest attempt to
> prevent much of the damn discrimination against gay people.
> 
> And don't associate us with a group of religious fools!
> We don't like having religion forced on us, and christians have been 
> doing it for centuries!  We haven't, don't, and won't do that!
> 
> >
> >Jaffo
> >
> ^^^^^^ just another bigot!
> 
> John, a man who wants freedom FROM religion in the U.S.A.
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> John Bowling             |Apple II GS can whip the pants off it's little
>       |brother (Mac) any time!
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> 
>

In article >,
   mikeh > wrote:
>
>
>
>Many people have sex at home..
>
>
>
>
>On 16 Nov 1995, John Bowling wrote:
>
>> Date: 16 NOV 1995 02:51:47 GMT 
>> From: John Bowling >
>> Newgroups: soc.culture.russian, soc.culture.ukrainian, soc.culture.soviet,
>>     soc.culture.magyar, soc.culture.polish, soc.culture.romanian,
>>     soc.culture.czecho-slovak, soc.culture.europe, soc.culture.baltics,
>>     soc.culture.usa, alt.current-events.russia, alt.current-even
>> Subject: Re: "The Russians Are Cumming!" 
>> 
>> In article >, Jaffo > wrote:
>> >
>> >:I agree; this whole shit does not even remotely belong to 
>> >:alt.sex.homosexual and similar groups. Tak chto, rebyata, sidite v 
>> >:alt.culture.russian (ili, esche lucshe, v 
>> >:alt.cretins.who.have.nothing.to.say) i ne zasoryaite set'.
>> >
>> >Are you implying there are no homosexual Russians?
>> >
>> >I think that's very narrow minded of you.  Homosexuality, while more 
>> >popular in America, is not an exclusively American phenomenon.
>> ^^^^^^^^  What?????                        ^^^^^^^^ describes a hemisphere,
>> not a country!  I am a U.S. or A. citizen, not an American.
>> Is someone from Mexico NOT an American.  They certainly ARE Americans.
>> 
>> >
>> >Now that Communism has loosened up media censorship in the former Soviet 
>> >Union, Russians can enjoy pornography, pedophilia, sodomy, and all kinds 
of 
>> >American indoor sports!
>> >
>> >I would think the gay community would take a nod from the Billy Gramm 
>> >crusade and use this opportunity to force their lifestyle on unsuspecting 
>> >Russians.
>> >
>> >In much the same way they have forced it on us here in America.
>>                                 ^^^^^^
>> It was never forced on anyone.  Did some guy FORCE you to have sex with 
him?
>> If that happoned, it was probably a heterosexual who was into a 
power/control
>> trip, like most rapists.
>> 
>> What some people think of as forcing the gay lifestly is an honest attempt 
to
>> prevent much of the damn discrimination against gay people.
>> 
>> And don't associate us with a group of religious fools!
>> We don't like having religion forced on us, and christians have been 
>> doing it for centuries!  We haven't, don't, and won't do that!
>> 
>> >
>> >Jaffo
>> >
>> ^^^^^^ just another bigot!
>> 
>> John, a man who wants freedom FROM religion in the U.S.A.
>> --
>> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>> John Bowling             |Apple II GS can whip the pants off it's little
>>       |brother (Mac) any time!
>> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>> 
>>

But it's not something THE STEAK wouldn't cure.
And Vlad is already greasing the pole.

Joe

Laszlo Katkits ) wrote:
>
>  Noone ever denied, that there were some brave and fine
>Hungarians, who hided and helped jews in other ways. Those people
>were gambling with their own life to do so, they deserve all
>honor. Unfortunately they were not only in minority, but just a few.
>The majority just did nothing. You can say " the majority did not kill"
>but it did not do anything against eighter. If the majority was for
>or against the nazis, can be a matter of discussion, but their
>passivity can't. Those who claim today their opposition against

 Most Hungarians were afraid for their own lives. What do you think
dying in Russia and getting frozen alive was much more fun than dying
in Auswitz? Why the hell can't you accept that what you claim
as "The Great Hungarian Antisemitizm" was -- for many Hunarians -- something
remote, very much lokalized at
Budapest and some big cities? Or should all Hunarians be held
responsible for everything done by people whom they never even
heard of just because they were also Hungarians? Is it not you
who is racist after all?

Andras

In article >,  says...

> Most Hungarians were afraid for their own lives. What do you think
>dying in Russia and getting frozen alive was much more fun than dying
>in Auswitz? Why the hell can't you accept that what you claim
>as "The Great Hungarian Antisemitizm" was -- for many Hunarians -- 
>something
>remote, very much lokalized at Budapest and some big cities? 

Because:
1. As it was mentioned several times, the so called Jew Laws
came 6 years BEFORE the german occupation, and 1 year BEFORE
the war, and 3 years BEFORE Hungary joined the war. Why can't
you just face it, the general opinion WAS antisemitic.
2. During the 1960-70 I heard enough antisemitic opinions from
people I never expected, even if the general opinion was a kind of
ashamed and much less antisemitic. The communists hate against
Israel - on the demand of the Sovjet - did not do any good eighter.
3. This antisemitism is on rising again - not only in Hungary -,
any try to deny the past gives more fuel to the new/old nazis.
4. I actually happen to know about a former "nyilas" who occupied
a house owned by jews, changed color of the partybook in time, and
got to remain in the house he occupied. The owners never received any
replacement of any kind. Now, as I heard, the grandson of this man
is an active member in some nazi organization in Budapest.

Will this answers do ? Some of you claim that you don't have to do
with all those stuff. I beleive you, I just don't understand why
are you guys so engaged to defend them, often with the only weapen:
pure denying. And you get mad when somebody remindes you things
you can't possible deny. Now why is this so important for you ?
Why can't you just say: OK it was a long time ago, we don't accept
those things today ? Now there is no war you can claim to be influenced
of, affraid for. Or do you fear for your lives today, for saying
against those new-nazis? 
 And a final question: Why are you all so certain that it must be
a jew to talk against antisemitism ? All those who claim their
right to speak for any minorities - f. ex. in Trassylvania -, must
imperativly do it for ALL minorities. Ohterwise it will be degraded
to cheap, populistic nacionalism.
Now Zsoter Andras, I know you are not an unscooled person, take all
this under consideration. Shell we discuss this things ? OK for me,
but at the same time: I was accused to write in english for just
giving more publicity to my "law opinion about Hungarians", - the
fact that I answered a message written in English did not count -
, so for all our convenience, let's write in Hungarian as long all
those who might be intrested can follow it.

And just for taking the edge of your message, I repeat a part that
you quoted me:

>  Noone ever denied, that there were some brave and fine
>Hungarians, who hided and helped jews in other ways. Those people
>were gambling with their own life to do so, they deserve all
>honor.

//Laszlo

Hello to all my users,

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		Cheers!

			Mark Harrison
			The WWWanderer
			


PS.  I have cross-posted to all the newsgroups from which people have
responded to me, asking for information in the past.  If you feel that
these updates don't belong on this newsgroup, please have an open
discussion on whether or not I should continue to post here - I will
respect the wishes of the group.

 


* For those who have no idea what The World Wide Wanderer Cyberian Bucket
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I'll announce on this newsgroup when I've put up more listings.


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let me know what you think.  

http://pobox.com/~wwwanderer
or
http://www.dcwww.com/wanderer/WWWanderer_home_page.html
My e-mail is:



Thanks!  I look forward to your visit.


	Mark Harrison
	The WWWanderer
	

 wrote:
> 
> Dorin Ungureanu > wrote:
> >
> >You will notice that although britanica mentions both schools 
of thought
> >on this issue, they only expand on the theory which holds 
true the fact
> >that the ethnogenesis of the Romanian people occurred in 
Dacia, and that
> >this process was finished by the time the Hungarians showed 
up in Transylvania.
> >Also the assimilation of slavic people  is mentioned in this 
text. That explains
> >the existence of slavic words in the Romanian language.
> 
> Dorin,
> with your nice last name (!) I expected something else from 
you.
> What you showed to me looks like the Encyclopedia editors 
lifted much of
> that stuff from Romanian history books.  Just like the authors 
of
> various travel books, etc.  I hope you really don't think that
> encyclopedist do their indpendent research on stuff they put 
into those
> volumes.  They just compile things and edit it.
> 
> Joe
The more stupid think in your rethoric is that you build 
everythink on lies,fabricated facts,insults,all the infected 
garbage.Normal people don't listen to this kind of  
absolite propaganda that BTW remind me of "Mein Kampf" or Stalin
or Ceausescu. Common Joe, you would lie 'ntil you die ?
Forget the past, the future is "bright".
Yours, Traian Romanu

I need to know the address of some American firms that send gift 
packages to Hungary.  Anyone have some information?  It will be 
appreciated.
Pete Koerner

In article >,
Laszlo Katkits > wrote:
>In article >,  says...
>>in Auswitz? Why the hell can't you accept that what you claim
>>as "The Great Hungarian Antisemitizm" was -- for many Hunarians --
>>something remote, very much lokalized at Budapest and some big cities?
>
>Because:
>1. As it was mentioned several times, the so called Jew Laws
>came 6 years BEFORE the german occupation, and 1 year BEFORE
>the war, and 3 years BEFORE Hungary joined the war. Why can't
>you just face it, the general opinion WAS antisemitic.
>2. During the 1960-70 I heard enough antisemitic opinions from
>people I never expected, even if the general opinion was a kind of
>ashamed and much less antisemitic. The communists hate against
>Israel - on the demand of the Sovjet - did not do any good eighter.
>3. This antisemitism is on rising again - not only in Hungary -,
>any try to deny the past gives more fuel to the new/old nazis.
>4. I actually happen to know about a former "nyilas" who occupied
>a house owned by jews, changed color of the partybook in time, and
>got to remain in the house he occupied. The owners never received any
>replacement of any kind. Now, as I heard, the grandson of this man
>is an active member in some nazi organization in Budapest.
>
>Will this answers do ? Some of you claim that you don't have to do
>with all those stuff. I beleive you, I just don't understand why
>are you guys so engaged to defend them, often with the only weapen:
>pure denying. And you get mad when somebody remindes you things
>you can't possible deny. Now why is this so important for you ?
>Why can't you just say: OK it was a long time ago, we don't accept
>those things today ? Now there is no war you can claim to be influenced
>of, affraid for. Or do you fear for your lives today, for saying
>against those new-nazis?

I'm just tired of getting clobbered by generalizations that tend to show
one particular side of Hungarian history. A lot of people seem to be ashamed of
the past, which obviously they have a right to, but I also think that
generalizations tend to be malicious (I think attorney general Janet Reno said
that, when at first the Oklahoma City bombings were blamed on
Middle-Easterners, then later on white Americans were accused).
I don't think I'd be ashamed of being a German, if I was one, due to the past.
I certainly wouldn't be proud of it, but to be constantly reminded of WWI and
WWII, would upset me, at least.
I don't know why I should be upset at "Austrians" or "Turks", although "they"
pillaged the country.
I guess, another problem is the closeness of WWII, and even WWI (ie. still
within a lifetime).
It is also arguable how much Horthy or the parliament represented "Hungary" and
the "Hungarians", although I suppose they did.

Gabor

Egy hossu vita it van az ugynevezett zsidotorvenyekrol, de senki sem 
emlekszik a pontos torvenyekre avagy datumokra. It a lista. A torvenyek 
szovegei is megvannak a konyvpolcomon. Ha valakit erdekel akkor elkuldom a 
szak- es torvenykonyvek cimeit.

1920:XXV. A Tudomanyegyetemre, muegyetemre, a budapesti egyetem 
kozgazdasagtudomanyi karra es a jogakademiara valo beiratkozas 
szabalyozasaraol. (1920 Szeptember 28. Az ugynevezett numerus clausus 
avagy zart torveny.)

1928:XIV. A feletti torveny modositasa. (1928. Aprilis 26.)


1938:XV. A tarsadalmi es gazdasagos elet egyensulyanak hatalyosabb 
biztositasarol. (1938 Majus 29. Az ugynevezett elso zsidotorveny.)

1939:IV. A zsidok kozeleti es gazdasagi terfoglalasanak korlatozasarol. 
(1939 Majus 5. Az ugynevezett masodik zsidotorveny.)

1941:XV. A hazassagi jogrol szolo 1894:XXXI Torvenycikk kiegesziteserol es 
modositasarol, valamint az ezzel kapcsolatban szukseges fajvedelmi 
rendelkezesrol. (1941 Augusztus 8. - Az ugynevezett harmadik 
zsidotorveny.)

1942:XV. A zsidok mezo- es erdogazdasagi ingatlanairol. (1942 Szeptember 
6.)

Udv

Aradi Peter
Depertment of History
University of Tulsa
Tulsa, Oklahoma USA

Wally Keeler,


        First of all, i want to tell you, maybe sometimes i will don't


write so good in english, so please understand my mistakes . I read 

not only this letter what you wrote, but many of them what you send to


the Romanians and Hungarians . I'm agree with you because we don't 

must live only in past, and we must to do something to change this 

mentality . At least i'm not agree with this type of discussion what 

Romanians and Hungarians make, some of them are indeed interesting, 

but others are so sterile. This problem betwen our countries will not 

finish so soon... . I think both of us must to comme to a more deep 

understanding of each other, this is only reasonable choice, the other


choice is very clear the WAR .

But, something i will criticize to your way of thinking . What i will 

criticize is specific to all people who live in occident . Many of 

you, think because occidental countries are superior and others are 

almost BARBARIANS, i see many of you don't understand WHY these 

countries are in THIS SITUATION .

You and others, speak from YOUR POINT OF VIEW, WITHOUT TO KNOW WHAT 

FEEL AND WHAT LIVE THESE COUNTRIES IN THEIR HISTORY . WHAT YOU DON'T 

UNDERSTAND is:

THIS region of world has suffered many bad things, many negative 

events, these events was so bad...

But, the peoples of this region  DON'T FORGET these events . I must to


tell you without exageration, these events are deep writed in the 

souls of people, in their minds, is almost GENETIC .

This type of process is happening when somebody suffer(pain) INTENSE 

AND VERY MUCH .

But that's not all, after the second World War, this region was under 

RUSSIAN INFLUENCE !!!!

Another catastrophe over our heads ... . Milions of roumanians was 

killed from COMUNISTS, ALL ROUMANIAN INTELECTUALITY, ALL WHAT WAS 

INDEED A VALUE FOR ROUMANIA

The same events... . And you tell us to DON'T LIVE IN PAST ?????......


You will understand that when you will live these events.... Forget 

you brother, or your mother or your father  who was killed from 

COMUNISTS, or HUNGARIANS , or RUSSIANS .

                                             FORGET IF YOU CAN !!!!!!


        I don't want to defend Romania, but read our history to see, 

how had live the Roumanians .....

For US, ALWAYS OUR LIFE WAS A FIGHT, against others who always come to


us with INCREDIBLE DEMANDS . All countries around Romania tell us 

TRANSILVANIA IS NOT YOUR LAND(HUNGARY) DOBROGEA IS NOT YOUR 

REGION(BULGARIANS), MOLDOVA IS NOT YOUR LAND(RUSSIANS) . Where is 

ROMANIA ? NO WHERE !!!!!! After these people, we must to DON'T
 
EXIST .  Who is indeed an enemy of peace in this region ?

By the way, i want to tell you another thing . Yes, all occidental 

countries are civilizated countries.

But, i see nobody of you, don't think how these countries had became 

"So Deep Civilizated", so Superior....

Tell me please : France, England, Holland,Germany, Austria and 

Hungaria, Italy, what is so specific in the history of these countries


?????? . Is so easy to find : All these countries had a Colonial

 Empire !

Hundreds of years they take all what was good in the countries who

 they EXPLOITE !! 


         The OCCIDENT IS SUPERIOR NOT BECAUSE IS SO ADVANCED.....

 IS BECAUSE "THIS" OCCIDENT EXPLOIT HUNDREDS OF YEARS "THESE 

				BARBARIANS"


You write : Why you don't want to join the "GREAT ENGLISH 

CIVILIZATION", you end by telling us almost like a menace, if you 

don't agree you will be assimilated from this "great civilization" . 

			Cute, ah ?

Barbarians must to be assimilated if they will don't obey ! Hmmm.... 

after my poor knowdlege of history was someone who tell us the same

 thing and his name was : ADOLF HITLER .

Be careful, i don't want to say, you are Hitler ! I want only to show

 you the possible consequence of your idea . You don't tell us 

something NEW , so please understand CORRECT what i wrote .

Another thing :

        If something is specific to the Occident is this :

        You want to impose your model of society to others ! You think

 this is healthy ? You think all of us must to be like you ? You 

think, we must to take your "model" and to put this "model" in OUR

 LIFE.... The fight of others countries against the occidental

 influence have like reason this wrong type of thinking...

A lot of countries need indeed a CHANGE, but a change in wich this

 country can save the own specific, and to DON'T LOOSE THE CONTROL OF

 THE OWN ECONOMY !!!, because the Occident want to be the "BOSS" not 

only in his country, but to be the "BOSS" and in "other HOUSE" . 

That show me for a long time, because the Occident DON'T HAVE ANY 

RESPECT FOR THE SPECIFIC OF EACH COUNTRY !

And your letter show me AGAIN the SAME THING .

I have deep doubts about the Occidental Civilization . Now i live in

 Canada, and i  see what means this "civilization" at the social level


Here don't exist indeed a "Communion Betwen People", each family in 

his appartment, people live here like a stranger to each other, only 

money are important, only my pleasure,many people are alienated... . 

        The Occident is modern, but  is without any WISDOM, and The 

WISDOM come from TRADITION the really problem is OUR WORLDS ARE IN A 

DEEP WAR . One WORLD is a MATERIALIST  WORLD, other WORLD is a 

SPIRITUAL WORLD, the base of this world is TRADITION and  RELIGION .

 The only chance to survive to each other is to take what is Good from


each type of world . If we don't do that, i don't see our  future well


Come to Romania, or Hungary, or Bulgaria, or Russia to see this type 

of Communion . You will understand how wrong you are when you speak 

about US, in YOUR TERMS .

Finish for one time to think all things in terms of : Commodity,

 civilization, etc . Go and know these people, ask these people what

 they think about life, world, what they feel, what they desire from 

life.

KNOW YOU , THESE PEOPLE AFTER THEIR """SPECIFIC""", LOOK DEEP INTO 

THEIR SOULS , AND YOU WILL UNDERSTAND NOT ONLY HOW WRONG YOU ARE, BUT 

YOU WILL APPRECIATE THE """WISDOM""" OF THESE """SIMPLE(ORDINARY)"""

 PEOPLE .




        For the readers from Hungary( and for you Wally)


                                                        
                       Dear Tamas, Janos, Sandor,.........


These people are not real, that means i don't know somebody with this 

name, but is a virtual person .



        I will be very clear . The key of understanding betwen 

Romanians and Hungarians is so simple :

        People from Hungary, must to end to put all the time the

 teritorial integrity of Romania in question, if you will continue 

with this theory, will don't be NEVER UNDERSTANDING BETWEN US .

        The real problem is :

        Any Romanian will don't accept like a base of disscusion the 

Autonomy of Transilvania or  a type  of Regional Autonomy . The real 

problem is to protect the rights of hungarians in Romania more well
        
 with more good laws . Anyway, like a personal comment :

        After my father i'm hungarian, my mother is Romanian, always i


consider deep in my soul i'm Romanian, but always i consider i can be 

proud because i'm and hungarian . In the light of these affirmations i

want to tell you, i know very well the hungarians from Romania . 

Before to comme to Canada i live in a majoritary hungarian region in

 Romania, in Harghita, so i want to tell you this:

Indeed in the time of Ceausescu the situation of hungarians in Romania

 don't was good. But in reallity we both, romanians and hungarians in

 the time of Ceausescu we live at the same level of life, no one don't


had some privillege . After romanian revolution, the situation of 

hungarians at the level of rights is not only good, is very good . In 

principal cities where hungarians are majoritary exist a CABLE TV 

COMPANY, the owners are of course hungarians, and they do a very good 

job . Exist a separate channel only in Hungarian language, exist a 

separate channel for DUNA TV, day after day the cultural life and

economic life of hungarian community is more good . The people for 

example, who drive these cities are only hungarians, they don't need 

really an Autonomy, because they have NOW this autonomy , but under

the Romanian law . Almost all aspects of the life of hungarian

 community is only in the hands of hungarians

What i find is wrong to hungarians leaders from Romania is because 

they have the same reflex to put this teritorial problem . You think 

is really wise to put this problem at the table of negotiations, when 

you speak with Romanian leaders ? The discussions are about the RIGHTS


OF A MINORITY, IN A MAJORITARY ROMANIAN COUNTRY . You don't fell is so


wrong this position, when the interest of Hungarians leaders from 

Romania is to defend the RIGHTS OF THIS MINORITY ?

Romanian leaders are open to discussion, but when somebody comme with

 this position, you don't feel the processus of negotiations is almost

 DEAD ??....  Another point is :

How you think , will feel all the Romanians(ordinary people) when

somebody put this territorial problem ???

What is interesting to me, is because always a hungarian speak like,

what feel Romanians is not important, this is "our" problem and we

 must to solve this problem . In fact the problem is the hungarian

leaders, don't want to negotiate the protection of hungarians rights, 

they want to don't be under the Romanian rule, under

the Romanian law .They want to break a country .

 This is the true position of these leaders .

 From this position, begin all troubles betwen Hungarians and 

Romanians . I said in the begining of this letter because only chance

 to have a solution to this problem is to have a deep understanding

 about each other, but unfortunately i see hungarian leaders from

 Romania - and not only from Romania - don't let a chance to begin

 this process of  understanding betwen us . The mistake of hungarian

 leaders is because they believe the Romanians don't want a solution

 for this situation . Romanians want a solution, but under the 

Romanian Law .

        Anyway our Occidental friend have right when he say, we don't 

must to live all the time in past, because we, Romanians and

 Hungarians, we have two different point of view of history.

Hungarians consider when the Romanians take the Transilvania in 1918

 don't was legal, this was an historycal injustice, Romanians consider


this WAS INDEED AN ACT OF JUSTICE after 8 hundred years

of opression . So, in this situation what we must to do ?? The both 

parts will remain at the his own opinion, so that means can't be 

understanding betwen these two countries ???

        Let, to be sincere betwen us, the times in which we live are 

different, maybe for some hundreds of  years we'll tell for each other


i'm hungarian, i'm romanian, but the world will became a village,

borders will be only on the maps, i'm sure of that, in 10-20 years the


economical links betwen Romania and Hungary will became very

 important, day after day, our level of life will became dependent

 from  each of us, when Romanians and Hungarians will work for the 

prosperity by economical links, many of these problems will dissapear 

betwen us . Is only a matter of time . 




 I wish to all my hungarians friends from all parts of the world, and 

                             for you Wally, an Happy Cristmas
 
                                            and God to be

                                                with you

                            


                             Kobori Gheorghe Alexandru