In article >,
Hermes  > wrote:
>Romans thrust North, in commerce as well as conquest, it is likely that the
>locals were fast learners. And between Augustus and Traianus, Latin was

Likely? It may also be likely that the locals were from the planet Zog-3. ;-|

Gabor

Par hete volt a HIRMONDOban egy meglepo cikk arrol, hogy MO valami 660
millio $ adossagot korabban fizetett vissza, mint kellett volna.
Allitolag azert tettek ezt, mert ezzel megsporoltak egy jo csomo
kamatot, s egyben hogy megerositsek "jo ados" hirunket.
Ez annal is meglepobb volt, mivel akkoriban azert is drukkoltak, hogy az
IMFtol megkapjak a keszenleti hitelek kovetkezo csomagjat.

Azota sem hallottam azonban, hogy kinek az adossagat fizettek ki ilyen
soron kivul?  Megjelent errol valami hir odahaza?  Egyaltalan, honnan 
tudjuk, hogy valoban arra ment ra az a 660 millio, s nem csak egy 
somakolas ("cover story") volt az egesz?

Pannon J.

 (Liviu Iordache) writes:

 wrote:
>
>>>the alleged Hun-Magyar dynastic continuity it's neither a historical
>>>fact, nor a myth without any basis in facts. It is just a plain
>>>misconception. There is no connection, whatsoever, between the 5th
>>>century Attila the Hun and 9th century Arpad. Period.
>
>>Maybe there was no direct descendancy from
>>Atilla to Arpad, but what is the connection between the Huns and the
>>present day Hungarians? I would love to know.
>
>As I already wrote above,  there is no connection.

It might be interesting to know how Attila became a fairly popular
Hungarian name.  Does Hungarian folklore claim any connection between
Hungarians and Huns or the explanation has to be searched somewhere else?

Besides Hungarians, the Italians also use their own version of Attila 
(Attilio), but Attilio is by no means as frequent as Attila amongst 
Hungarians.

Dan
-- 
Dan Pop
CERN, CN Division
Email:  
Mail:  CERN - PPE, Bat. 31 R-004, CH-1211 Geneve 23, Switzerland

>Hello Sandor, 
>Itt vagyunk, we are here, just there is nothing much we can write.  I
>don't know where you are writing from, but try to get in touch with your
>local Hungarian club.  We started about 12 years ago and since then we
>have grown up and created our little group of Hungarians.  Here in Ottawa,
>we started a dance group, have a Hungarian school, we have Hungarian
>Cserkesz as well.  The only problem is our group doesn't go to the Magyar
>haz, when in fact we will be the next generation in it.  
>You have to do a litlle research in your city, if all else fails, use the
>phone book, ask your parents for names of Hungarian.  And if you have some
>spare time, you can phone around.  You can also use the e-mail directory
>of names in your city.  Hungarian names will always be found around places
>like these.
>I hope I helped you a little, in fact I know there are big groups in
>Montreal and Toronto as well.

Hi Christina.

Well now i know there is more than one Hungarian teenager reading this news gro
up other than me.  
I have to say thanks for your letter. It was nice of you to write something. We
ll to start with i don't 
have problem finding hungarian friends in Toronto.. I go to a Hungarian church 
and to a hungarian 
youth group.  Sorry for not writing where i am.  (Toronto)

	Do you ever go to church?

	What are you taking at the University?  
	I think i have a friend who goes there i am not really sure. I will ask..
	Well the semester is almost over.. for me it is i have one more week and its  
done..
	What about you?

On 1 Dec 1995, Tony Pace wrote:

> 1639 it is quite apparent that during the days of the Turkish rule
> the name Toth belonged amongst the most numerous in Hungary.

  This is interesting, I think it has already been discussed here 
before. Toth is a surname. How was it with using given names and 
surnames at that time? Was this pattern common before it was codified? 
(I guess by Maria Theresa or Josef II ).


Peter Hakel

To Mr. Lim, 
  I'm not quite sure what your interest in spouting your views on the
Hungarian educational system is, but having been a part of that system as a
teacher for a year, I feel compelled to correct what I see as
misunderstandings, or at least prejudices on your part.  First of all, as far
as Hungarian teachers teaching English in Hungarian, I'm not sure what you
mean by that.  I have studied many foreign languages in my life, and in the
beginning, the teacher has always used English as a medium to explain
grammar, translate words, etc.  After attaining a certain level of
proficiency in English, or any language, even grammar can be explained in the
language one is learning.  But in the beginning, it is usually necessary to
use the native languge in some way, unless one is immersed in the foreign
language by living in that country.
  I myself was an English teacher in Hungary during the 1994-95 school year.
 I cooperated with Hungarian English teachers, who taught the grammatical
concepts, and I reinforced the grammar lessons with speaking and
pronunciation practice.  This was a great set-up, and it is quite common
these days to have a native English-speaking teacher at a school.
 Unfortunately, it is also quite expensive for most schools, since they pay
the rent on the teacher's apartment, utilities, etc.
  As far as the educational system not being advanced in Hungary, I don't
agree.  With the core subjects, such as literature, math, sciences, history,
etc., the Hungarian students know quite a bit more than their American
counterparts (which isn't saying much in some cases I know.)  Where I believe
they fall short is in the creative thinking department.  Students simply
aren't taught to express views or think creatively about an issue.  They
basically are taught to reiterate what the teacher has said on a test.  This
too will change as time goes on; I observed younger teachers with different
teaching styles, and once the students get used to it, they really thrive
with more interactive teaching methods.  
  It is true that older people in Hungary don't speak English as much as the
young, but many people do.  You must look at the bigger picture:  until the
collapse of communism, Russian study was mandatory and there really wasn't a
need for much else, I believe.  I also taught an adult class which was full
of people trying to learn English for work, travel, whatever.  I'm not quite
sure where your harsh views of Hungary, its education, and economy came from,
but I believe that despite your travel there, you must really take into
account Hungary's history from post WWII before you pass judgement on the
country as not being as "modern" as the west.  They are trying, and it will
just be a matter of time and hard work before the situation improves.
--Shannon Morris

Pavel Afanasiev ) wrote:
: In article >,  says...
: >What is the point in arithmetically analysing somebody's ethnic 
: >composition?
: >Wojtek

: I'm 1/3 jew.

How is it possible?

Leszek

Please, come and take a look at my homepage, I have lots of links. If
you have links that I don't have, please e-mail to me. 
The URL is: htttp://www.cyberg8t.com/tools/kinga.html

Thank you for visiting,  
 
Kinga

Die Idee, dass der uralte Gottesname Tot(h) dem Wort "deutsch" 
zugrundeliege, geht wenigstens bis ins Fruehneuhochdeutsche zurueck. 
Der Grammatiker Schottelius hat sich eben an diese Volksetymologie 
verknuepft.

"Deutsch" ist eher aus dem ahd. Wort "thiod", d.h., "Volk", herzuleiten. 

John Gamber

On Dec 01, 1995 22:28:08 in article <Re: Recognizing unfairness>,
 (Liviu Iordache)' wrote: 
 (Alexander N. Bossy) wrote: 
> 
>>The total 
>>lack of any shred of evidence to support that kind of huge migration over
a 
>>few centuries is the death knell of Out-of-Illyria as a credible
historical 
>>theory. 
 
Hi Liviu: 
 
First off, let me remind you that your version of Out-of-Illyria is
fundamentally different that Joe's.  Because Joe has an ideological
commitment to a Hungarian presence in Dacia BEFORE any Romanian presnece,
he insists that the Romanian population north of the Danube went up from
nothing to strong enough to defeat the Hungarian crown in a matter of a few
centuries.  You have previsouly accepted that Romanians may have been
living in present-day Romania as early as the 700's.  The addition of a few
extra centuries for migration into Romania successfully removes the very
basic logistical problems of the standard version of Out-of-Illyria, as
espoused by Joe.  Consequently, much of what I post in response to Joe does
not apply to you.  Don't take my posts in response to Joe's so personally. 
 
>I posted plenty of circumstantial evidence for the migration. While 
>none of them can be called "the smoking gun" we all are looking for, 
>it is worth mentioning  that you have never addressed the presented 
>facts directly, 
 
What you posted constituted of long lists of every document (mostly
Byzantine)  showing that Vlachs were found in an area, with the dates of
those documents.  Your list showed that their is more information about
Vlachs in the northern Balkans as time went one. 
 
I suggested that that was likely to be caused by the fact that the
Byzantine Empire conquered Bulgaria under Basil II the Bulger-slayer, and
consequently had contact with the local populations there.  You summarily
rejected my interpretation.  You gave no evidence of Byzantine records
showing that other populations lived in the northern Balkans at an earlier
time.  You merely took your evidence, interpreted it (and I'm not saying
that it is a prima facae illogical interpretation), and rejected any other
interpretations of that information.  Personally, I consider that
"addressing the presented facts directly." 
 
You also posted a list of words in Romanian and Albanian that have
etomological similarities. I admitted that your knowledge of lingustics is
far larger than mine, but suggested that since Thracians and Illyrians
lived next door to each other, it is probable that those languages were
related, and that the common words in Romanian and Albania came from al
language ancestral to both Thracian and Illyrian. 
 
Your firmly stated that Thracian and Illyrian were not related, and that
Dacian was not a Thracian dialect.  You have no evidence to support either
of those statements.  To few words from Dacian, Thracian, or Illyrian have
come down to us for us to know how closely or distantly they were related. 
We do know that the ancients recognized that the Dacians were a Thracian
tribe, and that Illyrian and Thracian were distinct peoples.  But, they
don't tell us how distinct the languages were. 
 
Consequently, we don't know if they wre as closely related as, say, Danish
and English, which share very many basic words, even though most English
words are of Latin origin, while the Danish vocabulary is mostly of
Germanic origins, or a little further, lets say, French and Danish, which
share fewer words, but not an insignificant number, since they are both
Indo-European.  You cannot prove that the languages were unrelated.  I
cannot prove that they were.  You've formed an argument based on the
supposition that they were unrelated.  I've formed an argument based on the
supposition that they were related.  Neither argument can win, since
neither one of us knows how closely they were related.  Consequently, your
linguistic arguments, while interesting, are a dead end. 
 
> I 
>posted this text some time ago, and it was received with almost total 
>silence, perhaps an indication, I like to think, that it has raised 
>questions that make the Romanian readers of this newsgroup 
>uncomfortable with some traditional interpretations of their own 
>past.The excerpt represents the beginning of the oldest Muntenian 
>chronicle, attributed to Stoica Ludescu, as it was reproduced  in 
>Calinescu's "History of Romanian Literature." It is  a very powerful 
>proof for the fact that, at least  before the 17th century,  among 
>Romanians had existed a popular tradition preserving the memory of at 
>least one migration wave coming  from south of the Danube.  
 
>>>>>But in the beginning it was inhabited by the Romanians who came  
>northwards. 
>	So crossing the Danube, they settled down at Turnul Severinului, 
>	others in the Hungarian country on the Olt and on the Mures and on  
>	the Tisza, going as far as Maramuresh. And those who had settled  
>	down at Turnul Severinului went further to the foot of the mountains 
>	as far as the Olt, others went down on the Danube and filling all  
>	places reached the outskirts of Nicopolis. Then, the high-born boyars  
>	were selected and of them they chose as their great ban, that is,  
>	their head, one of the Basarab family. And the first princely  
>	residence was at Turnul Severinului, the second was at Strehaia, 
>	the third at Craiova. And they ruled over those places for a long  
>	time. And in year 6798 since Adam (1290) there was in the Hungarian  
>	country a voivode called Black Radu Prince, herzog of Almas and  
>	Fagaras, who rose with all his house and many peoples, Romanians,  
>	Catholics, Saxons, all kinds of men, going down the Dimbovita and  
>	founding a new country.<<<< 
 
 
At this time, I don't have enough information on to address your quote. 
When I have a chance, I will do some research on the subject and respond to
it. But, I'd much rather continue our Romanian Origins debate
chronologically.  You made some very general complaints about the Roman
Dacia part of my FAQ.  Please address it directly.  Once we've reach an
agreement on that, we can continue to a latter period. 
 
Also, I've never denied that populations did shift back and forth across
the Danube.  Frontiers were much more fluid in the Middle Ages than they
are today.  In fact, as I've previously said, many of my ancestors came
from Byzantium after the Ottoman sack of Constantinople.  I'm not going to
pretend that no Vlach's migrated northwards.  Romanian Continuity's central
premisse isn't that the orriginal Daco-Roman stock has been preserved
unpolluted by foreing blood.  Rather, it's claim is that a Latin people
survived in the Carpathian area from Roman times to the present. 
Therefore, proof of migration of new populations into Romania, whether
Slavic, Byzantine, or Vlach, who are subsequently assimilated into the
Latin population, does not disprove Romanian Continuity.  They merely show
that many new influences were added to the Daco-Roman base in order to make
modern Romanians. 
 
Therefore, in order to disprove Romanian continuity, you need to prove that
no Latin population remained in Dacia at a certain historical period
between the Roman occupation and the emergence of modern Romanians.  Given
that you have previously posted that some Latin speaking peoples may have
lived in Dacia as early as the 700's, let's not focus on what happened in
the 1200's, and instead look at what happened during the period when you
feel that no Latin-speaking peoples survived north of the Danube. 
 
>I think this evidence  worths infinitely much more consideration than 
>naive arguments based on "Romanians love the forest and so did the 
>Dacians" or "Gee boy, I think the cap of that Dacian on Trajan's 
>column looks exactly like the cap of Baci Istvan  from Prislop."  
 
I've given different interpretations of your facts.  You've not given
different interpretations of my facts.  Start off by rebutting my Roman
Dacia FAQ "twisted and bent" fact by "twisted and bent" fact. 
 
>Ohhhh, Alexander, this is very low! It is my turn now to be extremely 
>disappointed. I have criticized the information quality of your 
>articles, but, up to now, I always thought high of your fair play.  
>Do you understand where I'm hinting? Let me help you: 
 
>>>     In this respect, it is worth mentioning that, despite strenuous
effort, 
>>>I failed to find any history books or articles in English or French,
written 
>>>after 1980 that even mentioned the possibility that modern Romanians 
>>>are not primarily descendant from the original Roman-Dacian mixture. 
> 
>And I responded : 
> 
>>>I can provide some references but without claiming that the list is  
>exhaustive  
>>>because my effort of putting these titles together was anything but  
>strenuous. 
> 
>Therefore, I did not say that those books "did not accept Romanian 
>continuity," although some of them indeed reject it. 
> My list of 
>references was a counterweight to your whining that "despite strenuous 
>effort I failed to find any history books in English or French, 
>written after 1980 that even MENTIONED THE POSSIBILITY THAT MODERN 
>ROMANIANS ARE NOT PRIMARILY DESCENDANT FROM THE ORIGINAL ROMAN-DACIAN 
>MIXTURE." 
> 
>Those books I have sent you to, are written in English, after 1980, an 
>mentioned plenty of times that the fucking nonsense called theory 
>Stinks with capital S from Sucks. 
 
How about giving us a hint as to which of the books you listed actually
supports your argument. 
 
If (most?) of the books that you listed do mention Out-of-Illyria, but then
dismiss it, all that I'll have to do is to change my original statement to
"despite strenuous effort I failed to find any history books in English or
French, written after 1980 that DID NOT ACCEPT THAT ROMANIANS ARE PRIMARILY
DESCENDANT FROM THE ORIGINAL ROMAN-DACIAN MIXTURE."  Personally, I consider
that losing the battle and winning the war. 
 
>Sure, but haven't we went together over the fact that both Romanian 
>historians and linguists accept that Romanians, Arumanians, Istrians, 
>and Meglenites evolved together initially but divided into two 
>branches  sometime around the 9th century? What is Winnifrith's 
>opinion on the "theory of Daco-Roman continuity?" 
 
As I stated in my last post, he mentioned that Latin speakers remained
north of the Danube after Emperor Maurice's death in 602 and the collapse
of the Dacian frontier.  He also mentions the possibility that Romanians
migrating soutwards augmented the Vlach populations there in the 10th
century.  (Although he doesn't believe it, he doesn't suggest that there
was no Latin population north of the Danube in the 900's.  As of yet, I
haven't seen anything in his book arguing that the Latin population
disapeared somethime after 602 only to reapear shortly thereafter in
sufficiently large numbers to conceivably repopulate the Vlach communities
of Macedonia. 
 
>>but on page 74 he mentions that a Latin population remained in 
>>Dacia after the defeat of the Emperor Maurice in 602, and on page 53 he 
>>goes so far as to discuss whether or not Romanians migrating south in the

>>10th Century augmented the Vlach population in Macedonia, without 
>>mentioning any possibility that no Latin-speaking population remained
north 
>>of the Danube at the time. 
> 
>Yeah, but, as it is very obvious even from your very distorted 
>summary, no reference is made to a possible Dacian ancestry of those 
>Latins. 
 
Liviu, you suggested that I look at a book on the Vlachs.  It does not
focus on Romania, Romanians, or Dacians.  Of course he's not going to go
into a huge discussion of Romanian origins: it isn't what he's writing
about!  He accepted that a Latin-speaking population remained in Dacia
after 602.  This Latin population remained in Dacia since the time of the
Roman Occupation.  If you don't accept that Dacians and Romans mixed in
Roman Dacia, please respond to my Roman Dacia FAQ.  Why?  What facts didn't
I address?  Which facts would you interperate differently?  Don't send me
to a book on the Vlach, and then say that, since it doesn't mention that
the Latin population of Dacia in 602 was a Roman-Dacian admixture, that
they weren't of Dacian ancestry as if that somehow disproves Romanian
Continutiy. 
  
>>I flipped very quickly through Laszlo Peter's "Historians and the History

>>of Transylvania."  
> 
>You've read "about one third" from one book, "flipped very quickly" 
>through another one, and jumped hasty to unfair practices. Way to go, 
>Alexander ! Let's see what you actually missed by flipping too 
>quickly: 
 
Liviu, I wrote a long FAQ about Roman Dacia.  You respond by accusing me of
"twisting and 
bending of the facts" and sending me to books that have nothing to do with
the time period that I wrote about.  I've got a life, and I don't have a
lot of free time to spend on endless gosse-chases trying to find a sentence
here, and a paragraph there in books which haven't got anything to do with
the subject.  Like it or not, it will take weeks, or, (given that
Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's Eve all take place within barely
more than a month) months for me to have neough time to read them all. But,
when Joe claims that your list of  books supports his arguments, I was not
going to give him the point.  I've read enough of Winnifrith's "The Vlachs"
to know that he does not lend credence to Out-of-Illyria.  And, I was
completely honest when I wrote that I "flipped very quickly"  through
Laszlo Peter's "Historians and the History of Transylvania."    I could
just have quoted that Out-of-Illyria is "a concious forgery of history" and
left it at that. 
 
 
>>as far as my quick browsing of the volume went, its focus was on the use
of 
>>the theory of Out-of-Illyria by the pre-1919 Hungarian government to
defend 
>>minority Hungarian rule over the Romanian majority in Transylvania.  
> 
>This is your own conscious forgery Alexander. Peter's book was spawned 
>by the controversy surrounding research published in 1986, not 
>pre-1919. 
 
I said that my initial interpretation was based on a "quick browsing".  I
may have looked at a few unrepresentative pages.  But, if the crux of your
argument is that I didn't spend enough time looking for the few sentences
that support your argument, I suggest that next time you post page numbers.
 Otherwise, I'll end up with still more confirmation of Romanian
Continuity, as I've gotten from Winnifrith's book. 
 
Alexander

: >harmadik napja gyaloglok 200,000+ komputeresekkel itt Las Vegasben, edig 
>: >Recognicion kivul (akik mar 8+ eve itt jarnak), csak Dr Mihaly Koltai s 
>: >reggi ism Endre Simonyi kivul keves magyaral talalkoztam... hol vagyunk? 
>: >ja... politizalunk! miert nem talalkozunk?
>: >
>: >janos
>: >
>: >
>: Felolem talalkozzunk de csak akkor ha Torontoba less a COMDEX
>elinte'ztem, jo:vo"re COMDEX Torontoban lesz!

ok thanks..

mik a leg 'erdekesseb dolgok arra?   Van valami amit e'rdemes volna olvasni?  M
it ne monjak 'erdekelne..
Ha voln'al kedves egy kicsit be-avatni. I wouldn't mind.
					
					Thanks
Sandor
(Toronto)

On 2 Dec 1995, Jorma Kypp| wrote:

> I suppose, that from Slovakian viewpoint Hungary wasn't "colony" in
> Austria, that was called at least in our historybooks as Austrian-Hungarian
> Empire. 

  Strictly speaking, Austria-Hungary existed only between 1867 and 1918. 
Hungary followed the fate of the Czech kingdom. Austrian emperor 
(Ferdinand I ?) became Czech king, but after the Battle on the White 
Mountain in 1620 Czech crown was "abolished" and Bohemia and Moravia 
became directly parts of Austria. Another Austrian emperor, after 
expulsion of the Turks from Hungary, became Hungarian king, but from time 
to time Hungarian nobility rebelled against Vienna. Then similarly, some 
emperors were not crowned as Hungarian kings and engaged themselves in 
keeping discontent Hungarian nobility quiet. I'm not sure about 
details, it's been some time since my high school history classes. But I 
remember very well, that we strictly used the term Austrian 
Monarchy/Empire when talking about the times before 1867. Only since then, 
after the Austrian-Hungarian Equalization Act (which meant the 
reconciliation between the Austrian court and Hungarian nobility, and 
coronation of Emperor Franz Josef as Hungarian king) it was correct to 
use the term Austria-Hungary. 


Peter Hakel

George Szaszvari > wrote:

>Reading this ignorant pro-Slovak nationalistic, hateful and embarrassingly 
>stupid drivel makes it clear how such half-witted thugs like Meciar, etc, 
>can be voted into power in Slovakia. No wonder the Czechs were glad to be 
>rid of them!

Welcome to the world of Igor Gazdik, George.  To get more of his views,
tune in to the Slovak-l list (or the bit.listserv.slovak-l news group).

Joe Pannon

Nem tudom hanyan vagyunk itt, akiknek jar a NEMZET, de valoszinuleg nem
kevesnek.  Mit szoltok a Szatmari konyvismerteto sorozathoz?

Oszinten szolva en erdeklodessel vartam a szenzaciosnak igerkezo
sorozatot, de valahogy bajom van Sztmari karakterevel.  A pasas irto
nagy linknek tunik, aki mindenkit hajlando kiszolgalni, mint egy
prostitualt.  S raadasul nem csak megirja a hireket, hanem aktiv reszese
is azoknak.  Ha ez a tipikus ujsagiroi stilus odahaza, akkor ott nagyobb
bajok vannak, mint gondoltam.

Ezek utan nehez eldonteni, hogy a Szatmari konyvben mennyi az igazsag es
mennyi a konyv sikere erdekeben kitalalt szenzacio.  Kar, mivel biztos
tortent egy par dolog a kulisszak mogott 89 ota, amit szivesen olvasnek.
De Szatmarinal megbizhatobb ujsagiroktol.

Pannon J.

Hi all!

Do any of you out there know anything about the conditions in 
Hungarian orphanages.

I read recently that some British agency was sending aid to a
Hungarian orphanage.

Are things SO bad in the orphanages?

Have any of you ever visited an orphanage in Hungary lately?

Any info is welcome.

Thanks,

A.M.

In article >,  (Igor M
azin) writes:
|> In article > Ed Ponarin 
h.edu> writes:
|> > Lenin
|> >was a quarter Kalmyk (a west Mongol tribe), a quarter Jew (PBS, where 
|> >are you?), a quarter Swede (Sweden rules!), and I am not sure about the 
|> >fourth quarter (German, Chuvash (a Christian Turkic tribe) and/or 
|> >Russian?).
|> >
|> 
|> Ed:
|> We have to share the dubious honor off being the same tribe as Lenin
|> He was 1/8 (not 1/4) scandinavian, 1/8 German, 1/4 Russian, 1/4 Jew,
|> and 1/4 Chuwash, but in the last I am not 100% shure, maybe it was Kalmyk.

What does it really mean somebody is 1/8 Mongol or Eskimo or some such?
What is the point in arithmetically analysing somebody's ethnic composition?
Looks like a load of crap to me. 

Scornfully,

Wojtek
-- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wojciech R. Rypniewski		tel: +49-40-89902142
EMBL c/o DESY			fax: +49-40-89902149
Notkestrasse 85			E-mail: 
D-22603 Hamburg, Germany	WWW: http://www.embl-hamburg.de/~Wojtek/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article >,  says...

>What does it really mean somebody is 1/8 Mongol or Eskimo or some such?
>What is the point in arithmetically analysing somebody's ethnic 
>composition?
>Wojtek

I'm 1/3 jew.

Pavlik

In article >,  says...
>
>In article >,  
(Igor GAZDIK) says:
>

">George
">
">** George Szaszvari, DCPS Chess Club, 42 Alleyn Park, London SE21 7AA, 
"UK **
"> Spaceship Earth, Milky Way Galaxy ** Cybernautic address: 
"
">NB: The BBC has ceased to provide Internet access to the public but 
"email to
">the above address will be forwarded onto a new PIPEX address throughout 
"1996
">   * C=64 stuff wanted * Interested in s/h chess books? Ask for my list 
"*


     man, reading this crap gives me a better understanding
     of the restrictions the britishers are putting on immigration.
     imagine they would get another two or three geniuses like you.
     would they still qualify as the country of shakespeare of newton???

In article >  (Leszek Andrze
j Kleczkowski) writes:
>From:  (Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski)
>Subject: Re: Meaning of "Slav" and "Rus"
>Date: 3 Dec 1995 14:49:32 GMT

>Pavel Afanasiev ) wrote:
>: In article >,  says...
>: >What is the point in arithmetically analysing somebody's ethnic 
>: >composition?
>: >Wojtek

>: I'm 1/3 jew.

>How is it possible?

His Jewish mother was a lesbian :-)))

Rosta

>Leszek

In article >  (Pave
l Afanasiev) writes:
>In article >,  says...
>
>>What does it really mean somebody is 1/8 Mongol or Eskimo or some such?
>>What is the point in arithmetically analysing somebody's ethnic 
>>composition?
>>Wojtek
>
>I'm 1/3 jew.

There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.

-DDC

>
>Pavlik
>


> ===============================================================
       -- I speak for no one and no one speaks for me --
  D. D. Chukurov                          
> ===============================================================

"In article >,  
"says...
">
">George Szaszvari > wrote:
">
">>Reading this ignorant pro-Slovak nationalistic, hateful and 
"embarrassingly 
">>stupid drivel makes it clear how such half-witted thugs like Meciar, 
"etc, 
">>can be voted into power in Slovakia. No wonder the Czechs were glad to 
"be 
">>rid of them!
">
"">Welcome to the world of Igor Gazdik, George.  To get more of his 
"views,
">tune in to the Slovak-l list (or the bit.listserv.slovak-l news group).
">
">Joe Pannon

      please don't!!!!!    do not contaminate this listserve with your
      presence.   stay within the "intelllectual" confines of the
      peaceful and advanced hungarian discussion circle.

 (Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski) wrote:
>   Pavel Afanasiev ) wrote:
>   : I'm 1/3 jew.
>
>   How is it possible?

   Clue:

   1/3 = 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/64 + ... = Sum [ (1/4)^n ]

- Smirnov

In article >,  (Jorma Kypp|)
wrote:

> Eugene  *fraer* ) wrote:
> > As for the word "rus", its meaning is never been clear.  
> 
> I agree, next I'll give the explanation that I've seen most
> often here in the north.
> 
> > AFAIK The original Rus 
> > live near Kiev and campained against Konstantinopol, but I don't know even 
> > were these people Slavik or Nordic by origin.  Also there were areas named 
Rus in
> > Checkia, Serbia, and even Hungary. 
> 
> The name "rus" originates to Swedish vikings, that established Novgorod (Holm
gard)
> some thousand years ago. There already was a village or trading place populat
ed
> by slavs, that came from south, earlier, when they asked Rurik and his brothe
rs
> to rule the place.

One comment on this item from the chronicles:

When I first read (in "Povest' vremennyx let") that the Slavs asked Rjurik
and his brothers to come rule over them, for me the story had a ring of a
piece of Anglo-Saxon mythology, according to which the earlier
(non-Anglo-Saxon) inhabitants of the British Isles asked Horsa and Hengist
to come rule over THEM.  In fact, the versions of the Chronicles containing
the invitation to Rjurik et al. to come rule are all based on versions that
were gathered, compiled and codified under Vladimir Monomakh, no traces of
anything earlier with that item have survived.  And Monomakh himself was
married to Gytha ("Gifa"), daughter of none other than the last Saxon King
of England -- she and her family were living in Kiev as emigres after
William the Conqueror (to use the name most people know him by) won the big
one in 1066.  (Another example of Rusian royalty marrying into "western"
royal families.)

Perhaps Monomakh and his compilers were recycling a little in order to give
the dynasty all the trappings of legitimacy?  I'd be interested to hear
more about this, given the circumstantial evidence.

[other stuff snipped]

Sibelan

> ------------------------------------------------
Sibelan Forrester

http://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/sforres1/
> ------------------------------------------------
Drug!  Ne kori menja za tot
Vzgljad, delovoj i tusklyj.
Tak vglatyvajutsja v glotok:
Vglub' -- do poteri cuvstva!
																						       -- M. Cvetaeva
> ------------------------------------------------

Igor GAZDIK > wrote:
>
>      please don't!!!!!    do not contaminate this listserve with your
>      presence.   stay within the "intelllectual" confines of the
>      peaceful and advanced hungarian discussion circle.

What's the matter, bro'?  Afraid of more exposure?

Joe

In article >,  (AND Books) wrote:
>harmadik napja gyaloglok 200,000+ komputeresekkel itt Las Vegasben, edig 
>Recognicio (CA) kivul (akik mar 8+ eve itt jarnak), csak Dr Mihaly Koltai es 
>reggi ism Endre Simonyi kivul keves magyaral talalkoztam... hol vagunk? 
>ja... politizalunk! miert nem talalkozunk?
>
>janos
>
>
Felolem talalkozzunk de csak akkor ha Torontoba less a COMDEX

Can anyone please tell me where I can find out what computing job are
available in Hungary?

In article >,  ()
wrote:

> Igor GAZDIK > wrote:
> >
> >      please don't!!!!!    do not contaminate this listserve with your
> >      presence.   stay within the "intelllectual" confines of the
> >      peaceful and advanced hungarian discussion circle.
> 
> What's the matter, bro'?  Afraid of more exposure?
> 
> Joe

Gazdik might be scared of the name George Szaszvari. He's afraid of some
more anti-Slovak conspiracy. Although the name souds Bratislavian to me.
One  S~as~vari was my neighbour back there.

:)
TD

-- 
Signature under construction...

Lenin had Jewish antecedents, and his truly Asiatic appearance argues for
Mongol roots. Not Finno-ugric for that matter. Real Asian mongol.

Khrushchov was probably a "Khrushch". He came from southern Kursk oblast,
ethnically Ukrainian territory though strongly Russified with considerable
mixing. The "-ov" may well be a Russicism tacked on prior to his birth.

Also, Chernenko was ethnically Ukrainian. I am not sure where he was from,
but there is no such thing as an "-enko" whose lineage does not include
Ukrainian ancestry on the father's side. 

Gorbachov is another one that has Ukrainian roots, although he would work
hard to cover all of this up. Though he is from Stavropol Krai, an area of
southern Russia surrounded by ethnic Ukrainians
(Kuban--Stavropol---Maikop) etc., his mother's family is Ukrainian from
Chernihiv region. His father's side is from central Voronizh
(Russian--Voronezh) region, and the last name was probably changed from
Horbach to Gorbachov at some point in the not-too-distant past.

Cheers,

the Swamp

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In article >,
Hermes  > wrote:
>
>On 2 Dec 1995, Gabor Barsai wrote:
>
>> Likely? It may also be likely that the locals were from the planet Zog-3.;-|
>
>Yes, that is somewhat accurate. But only the one's that were asimilated
>by the Magyars, spawning the Szekely. Nobody seems to know where the
>Szekely come from, so you must be right, they must be from Zog-3.
>What an epic that would have made, 'From Zog to Transylvania' too bad
>they don't seem to have been literate.

Actually, this IS true. Csaba, Attila the Hun's son, is out there riding in the
Milky Way...(Methinks he is looking for the planet Zog-3, home of his people!)
You must know that the Szekely Anthem makes a reference to Csaba.

Hey, anybody could be of Latin origin, but only the select few have Zog roots.
Imagine a giant pterodon delivering the "locals" to Transylvania, Dobruja,
Oltenia and Muntenia from Zog-3. So now you know why Hungarian is such a
strange language.
:-O

Or maybe the Magyars have a Mayan connection? From the spelling of the two 
words, I think the connection is obvious:

MAYA
MAgYAr

Anyway, I thought you were writing about the "locals" who picked up Latin in a
matter of days 2000 years ago. I don't recall the Magyars speaking Latin.

Gabor

 (D.D. Chukurov) wrote:
>   There are three kinds of people: those who can count and those who can't.

   There are actually two kinds of people: those who think that there are
two kinds of people, and all others.

- Smirnov

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