Racz Istvan,50 eves gim. fizika tanar vagyok/Szatmar,Romania/ es vilagi 
ferences.Szimpatizalok a "Focolare" lelkiseggel/Maria mu"ve/.Erdeklodesi 
teruleteim: fizika,asztronomia, a szegenyek segitese,az emberiseg 
egysegenek letrehozasa.Mindazokkal szeretnek kapcsolatba kerulni akiknek 
ez oromet jelent.Kerem szepen a valaszt a kovetkezo email szemelyi cimre 
kuldeni 

                  

mivel  meg nem tudjuk olvasni a  newgroups-ot.

Sziasztok!

My name's Nicola (Miklňs) and I would like to get in touch with nice 
Hungarian females with a sense of humour, aged 18-25, speaking Italian or 
English, for lasting friendship. I'm 24 y.o., 175 cms tall, dark 
haired, brown eyed, slim; I have a degree in Business Economics and I 
will be relocating to Budapest next Autumn for a one and a half year's 
period of work. I'd like to start a correspondence for the time being, 
and meet you in person on the first occasion. If interested, write me to 
my E-Mail address:      
or send mail to: 
C.I. 25456456, fermo posta  Soave Mantovano (MN), C.A.P. 46040, ITALY.

TTTTT EEEEE SSSSS TTTTT
  T   E     S       T  
  T   EEEEE SSSSS   T  
  T   E         S   T  
  T   EEEEE SSSSS   T  


PPPPP AAAAA TTTTT TTTTT EEEEE RRRR  N   N
P   P A   A   T     T   E     R   R NN  N
PPPPP AAAAA   T     T   EEEEE RRRRR N N N
P     A   A   T     T   E     R   R N  NN 
P     A   A   T     T   EEEEE R   R N   N

Box 425  Vienna, VA  22183
Copyright 1996
complimentary excerpt

> ==============================================
Tuesday, July 2, 1996
> ==============================================

1.  The Invisible Lebanese-Americans.

We know the Irish; we grew up
with the MacDougals, O'Garritys and Ginleys.
Murphy's Pub does a fine business in
Guiness Stout and Bass Ale served with lemon.
All around the country, Celtic Music Festivals
follow closely on St. Patrick's Day.  The Irish are
on TV and in the movies, as the cops, the sports
figures, the drunken neighbors of Middle America.

Italians are also quite visible on the American
scene.  One if by pasta, two if by pizza, Little Italy is a phenomenon in 
major cities across the country.  On television, Italian-American imagery 
is often used to typify blue collar workers. In the movies, they are 
gangsters with fine clothes and fancy cars,sobbing to opera while slicing 
off  your fingers.  They don't get no respect, and they all seem to talk 
funny.

Speaking of no respect, we know the Poles.
Are street fairs even allowed that don't serve
kielbasa-- I mean, are these ethnics ubiquitous or what?  While cinema 
remains indifferent to them,  Television positively hates them, offering 
a regular tribute of ridicule through programs such as Married With 
Children.  TV's borscht belt standup comics planted the Polish Joke in 
the American cultural landscape, and the Polish Joke
has been nourished there ever since.  It is the Jewish way of ridiculing 
the Poles.

Probably the Germans have it the worst though.  Not only television and 
cinema, but every form of media regularly carries Nazi this and WWII 
that, and Nazis killing Jews, Nazis killing Jews.  Additionally, the 
stereotypical psycho, a regular fixture in adolescent television and 
cinema, couldn't appear more German.  Television has gone to great 
lengths to intimidate, suppress, and depress, the ethnic German spirit, 
from early indoctrination through the teen years, when the influence 
becomes quite severe.  Media sees nothing good in Germans, meaning 
German-Americans, but rather seems to tolerate them.  And Germans are 
widespread in America, offering up to the common spirit some of our most 
unique and fascinating cultural icons, from Amish Communities to gifted 
and skilled citizens.  Again, ubiquitous.  And again, Christians, 
Methodists, with that set of common moral values so easily shared with 
the Irish, Italians, Poles.

We have to ask by now: why are they so silent?  and the Poles, why are 
they so silent?

Media's message to Blacks is repetitive, stupid, violent, and heavily 
reinforced.  Mainstream Black music is designed to guide rather than 
reflect Black culture.  Blacks display prominently in news as criminals 
involved with guns, drugs, prostitution, rape, and violent crime.  
Television prefers to show Black men more interested in white women, 
further denigrating and ridiculing Black women in society at large, 
especially in the eyes of Black men.  The ominous, disgusting O.J. 
Simpson `show` was designed as a long-running set of commericals showing 
that it is all right for Black men to `kill white chicks`, because Jews 
will save and rescue Black men, from justice if necessary.  In short, the 
crime of the year turned into a long-running commercial to present a mass 
mediated image of how well Blacks and Jews get along.

Jews have the most consistently positive, enlightening, wholesome 
presentations of any ethnic representation on television or anywhere in 
the mass media.  From the regularly broadcast gut-wrenching graphic 
trauma of WWII (staple programs on Public television nationwide)
presenting the image of Jewish victims, to the regular hype as to why 
Seinfeld is such intellectually clever comedy, media
never has anything more nasty to say about Jews than is said by Woody 
Allen, a media Jew whose idea of a bad Jew is one who eats greasy pork 
chops.  Media portrays Jews, and only Jews, as middle class American 
heroes, eating hot dogs and rooting for the New York Yankees, showing 
kindness to their families and their fellow Man, and being religious, 
faithful and true.

To ride the curve from the most prominent ethnic images in American media 
to the images that are least visible, we cascade through portrayals of
stupid Chinese, bound by superstition and ritual, to the nearsighted 
Swede, lilting along in a clearly exaggerated ridicule of accent, the 
spiritually misguided American Indian, the Mexican dust-eaters, and other 
negative smatterings of ethnic diversity.

The image of the Lebanese is an image of foreign Arabs, suggesting that 
Arabs are foreign to America as well as hostile, along with the 
well-documented host of negative imagery associated with Arabs in
American media.  Even after fifteen years of civil war, American media 
was unable to produce even one ethnic Lebanese national news commentator.
For national and international news coverage, and especially noticeable, 
for American news coverage of the Mideast, there simply are no ethnic
Arab-Americans.  There are Arab foreigners, but no Arab Americans.

Not that Lebanese care to be ridiculed any more than already proposed by 
Jewish media.    But in the realm of mass mediated information -- the 
news
about your world from your most trusted source-- the absence of 
Lebanese-Amerian newspersons for national and international news 
reporting
from the Mideast, even during 15 years of Lebanese strife, was peculiar. 
 Lebanese-Americans are most regularly the loudest complainers about the
level of U.S. aid to Israel, the total cost of which has skyrocketed well 
beyond the costs of any other American military involvement in American
history.  Yet the entire Lebanese-American ethnic population, with roots 
going back now for many generations in the United States, were seemingly 
not able to muster as many as one native journalist willing to cover 
those issues.  Not one appeared to be interested.  Yet thinking on these 
issues
has been rampant in the Lebanese-American community.  These ethnic 
Lebanese Americans are totally absent from the debate on the most 
expensive foreign policy issue in American history, mostly because those 
who dared to speak out were harassed, intimnidated, and ruined into 
silence by nasty little groups of Israel-supported American Jews who saw 
waging social warfare against their fellow Americans as doing their bit 
for Israel.  But this was back in the 60s and 70s, long after medias 
audience research of the 50s painstakingly documented the characteristics 
of so many American nationalities.  As the only Arabs in America, the 
Lebanese-Americans became the main enemy, unsuspecting targets.

<<...regular, or decaf??  Hello? ...>>

Given media's ability to lavish negative imagery on other ethnics, 
perhaps the Lebanese have it good.  But the quesition that remains to be 
asked is many sided.  Why are American ethnics, from the Irish to the 
Poles to the Germans, to the Italians to the Blacks, regularly attacked 
by the media with religious and ethnic ridicule?  If American media is 
not an Israeli propaganda machine controlled by American Jews, why does 
this happen? And why are these media Jews using a set of demographically 
precise attacks on American citizens through the media?    American 
citizens have not been at war with each other since the Civil War, but 
now we have proof that American Jews are at war with many ethnic 
Americans, in order to suppress anti-Israel thinking, and to avoid real 
debate of American passionate attachment to Israel.

It has been quite plain for some time now that Israel has had a free 
reign over the apparatus of the Jewish propaganda in the United States, 
and probably other countries as well.  The dominance of Jewish influence 
in American media generally is also well-known and documented.  And if, 
as John Lennon asserted, "one and one and one is three," it is not 
difficult to see the extent of damage that Israel has brought upon 
American society in its war to dominate the resources of the United 
States to Israel's advantage.

What do these groups have in common, that they should all suffer the same 
mass-mediated ridicule?  They are all Christians, for starters.  The 
Mideast wars have become one big religious war after all.  Judaism is 
surely at war with the very threatening picture of organized Christianity 
in the United States, and so better to oppress the spirit of these people 
as best as they can be catigorized.

> -------------------------------------------

TEST PATTERN, the newsletter of American ethnic Lebanese and 
Arab-American public opinion -- media's inverted image!

The most heavily censored American political thought in the latter half 
of the twentieth century:

Subscribe now to 52 issues for only $49.95.
That's $9.95 off the news-stand-less price!!

TEST PATTERN
TEST PATTERN

ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3


The Hungarians does not look any more Mongoloids for the same reasons the 
Turks in Istanbul
look European.

It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their 
roots are Mongolic.

From Britannica :(Languages of the world)

"Racially the Uralic people present an unhomogeneous picture.In general 
they may be considered
a bland of Europeans and Mongoloid types,with the more western 
groups(especially the Hungarians,Baltic-Finnic and Erzya Mardvin groups) 
being strongly European and those of the Urals primarily Mongoloid".

From " De Administrado Imperio"by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Byzantine 
Emperor,950AD)

"These eight clans of the TURKS(Hungarians)do not obey their own 
particular princes...,They 
have for their first chief the prince who comes by succession of Arpad's 
family..."
 

From The Hungarian Chronicle(1095AD):

"We (Hungarians) are descendants of the great Huns of Attila".

From "The Mongols" By Jeremiah Curtin

"Five groups of Mongols have made themselves famous in Europe:The Huns 
with their mighty chief Attila,the Magyars,The Turks or Osmanli,the 
Mongol invaders of Russia..."


From "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" By Edward Gibbon.

"The(Hungarians) are distinguished by the Greeks under the proper and 
peculiar name of Turks,
as descendants of that people who had conquered and reigned form China to 
the Volga (referring to the Mongols)".

From "The Cambridge Medieval History" edited by J.H.Hussey.

"The form ovyypoi,from which are derived the various names current to 
this day among the people of Europe(Old Church Slavonic,UGRI; Russian,
VENGRI;German,UNGARN;English,HUNGARIANS;French,HONGROIS;Italian,UNGHERESI,
and so on)comes from the Turkic ethnic name ONOGUR meaning TEN OGUR"

From "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler.

"We also hear of a fearful encounter which St.Cyril,the Apostle of the 
Slav,had with a Magyar horde in 860,on his way to Khazaria.He was saying 
his prayers when they rushed at him luporum more ululantes-HOWLING IN THE 
MANNER OF WOLVES".

From "Britannica"(Languages of the world).

"Recent study indicates that it is posible to speak of a Uralic racial 
type,an intermediate stage between the European and the Mongoloid,the 
basic features of which are medium-dark to dark hair and eye colour,
relatively small stature and often a concave bridge of the nose".
(Hungary is part of Uralic racial type).

From "Britanica" Hungarian.


"The proto-Hungarians were apparently an ethnic blend of Ugric(Mongoloid) 
and Turkish peoples living in western Siberia...The Hungarians were the 
scourge of Europe,raiding as far afield as Bremen,Orleans and 
Constantinople(the English word OGRE-a men eating man,hideous cruel man,
is a corruption of HUNGAR,attests to their notoriety).


From "1000 years of Hungary" By Emil Lengyel.


"(Hungarian) Folklore speaks about NIMROD the giant,who had two sons,
HUNOR and HAGAR.The former was the ancestor of the HUNS,and MAGOR was the 
ancestor of the MAGYARS."

"The experience the Magyars left with the Western world was so traumatic 
that even generations later people form the West saw the Hungarians as 
apocalyptic monsters. Bishop Otto of Freysing spoke of the exterior of 
the Hungarians as ‘ferocious' at the time of the Crusades :(Their eyes 
are sunken,their stature is short,their behavior wild,their language 
barbarous,so that one can either accuse fate or marvel at divine patience 
for having permitted these monsters the possession of an enchanting 
land)".


From "History of Hungary" By Denis Sinor


"Though, geographically speaking, of European origin, the Hungarians who 
settled in the Danube valley were,spiritually and materially, Asiatics, 
and belonged to the great Central Euroasiatic cultural family whose 
members lived dispersed form the Danube to China, from Persia and India 
to the Arctic. The Hungarian bows and arrows...were of exactly the same 
type as those used in Central Asia. As nomadic peoples generally do, the 
Hungarians disliked towns,and even houses,to which they preferred tents. 
According to Otto von Freisingen, as late as the middle of the twelfth 
century, summer and autumn were still spent under tents".

"It is, however quite certain that the Mongoloid type was well 
represented among them(Hungarians), and that they were, on the whole, of 
rather short stature, with short legs, bowed through continuous riding".


There are many more credible sources like these.

Plamen Malinov wrote:
> ken (who) -  ken <suomi> - ke <eesti> - gi <sabme> - ke <mari> -
>         kin <komi> - kot <khanty> - kez <magyar>Some more correction:
"who" is "ki" in Hungarian, "kez" (ke´z) means "hand" and it is a 
Finno-Ugric word as well.
-GG

In article >,
    (Peter A. Nemenyi) wrote:
>
>Szaszvari Peter irta:
>
>> Ez csodalatos, hogyan sikerult Nemenyinek elerni, hogy a Petofiben interjut 
>> keszitsenek vele?
>
>Felkertek ra!

Termeszetesen!

[...]
>Nos a kerdesre konnyu a valasz. A munkaltato gerinctelenul visszalepett a 
>hamis vadjaitol. 

Nagyszeru! Akkor miert kellet eljonni?

>De kulonben sem a munkaltatoval van bajom, hanem az aljas
>feljelentgetokkel. Kerdesem csak az, hogy amennyiben a feljelentok jogosan
>jartak el, ugy miert bujkalnak meg mindig az ismeretlenseg moge rejtozven.

Erdekes! A multkor mar egesz biztosan megvoltak azok a feljelentok. Mar todni 
veltuk azt is, hogy liberalis szemetek voltak. Akkor most meg sincs 
bizonyitek?
Akkor azok csak egy sertodott ember ragalmai voltak?
Nahat, hogy mik derulnek itt ki, csak varni kell!



Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

Dear Hungarian readers,
	Here are some comments of the posting of Maria Egorov,
made in the news-groups soc.culture.bulgaria, and soc.culture.turkish.
I think, that it is appropriate to crosspost it to the newsgroup, where 
the posting is most related.
				Regards: Plamen M.

FROM:  (H. M. Hubey)
SUBJECT: Re: Are Hungarians Mongols ?
DATE: 18 Jul 1996 15:47:13 -0400
ORGANIZATION: Montclair State University


>"Racially the Uralic people present an unhomogeneous picture.In general 
>they may be considered
>a bland of Europeans and Mongoloid types,with the more western 
>groups(especially the Hungarians,Baltic-Finnic and Erzya Mardvin groups) 
>being strongly European and those of the Urals primarily Mongoloid".

It's not a good idea to:

1) mix linguistic groups with racial groups
2) copy articles written many centuries ago written
by chroniclers who didn't know what they were saying
3) to quote from chauvinistic 19th century western european
writers who practically claimed that only whites were humans


>From " De Administrado Imperio"by Constantine Porphyrogenitus (Byzantine 
>Emperor,950AD)

>"These eight clans of the TURKS(Hungarians)do not obey their own 
>particular princes...,They 

This is a standard mispractice by Byzantine chroniclers who
confused Magyars with Turks. Being Magyar, Turk or Mongol
has to do with language. And languages get divided up into
dialects and family affinities.

The old Ural-Altaic group used to put Hungarian,Turkish and
Mongolian in the same group. These days Altaic and Uralic
are considered to be separate groups by most linguists.


>From The Hungarian Chronicle(1095AD):

>"We (Hungarians) are descendants of the great Huns of Attila".

There might have been some Avars left there when the Magyars
arrived, and the Avars could have been the descendants of the
Huns, and Huns spoke a Turkish language, which belongs to Altaic
whereas Hungarian is an Uralic language.

So this is a simple mistake/myth.


>From "The Mongols" By Jeremiah Curtin

>"Five groups of Mongols have made themselves famous in Europe:The Huns 
>with their mighty chief Attila,the Magyars,The Turks or Osmanli,the 
>Mongol invaders of Russia..."

Neither Magyars, nor Turks are Mongols. Mongols are Mongols, and
their names are names like Buryat/Buriat, Xalka, etc.



>From "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" By Edward Gibbon.

>"The(Hungarians) are distinguished by the Greeks under the proper and 
>peculiar name of Turks,

This is correct, since the Byzantines did mistakenly give the
name "Turk" to Hungarians. That's all Gibbon says.



>From "The Cambridge Medieval History" edited by J.H.Hussey.

>"The form ovyypoi,from which are derived the various names current to 
>this day among the people of Europe(Old Church Slavonic,UGRI; Russian,
>VENGRI;German,UNGARN;English,HUNGARIANS;French,HONGROIS;Italian,UNGHERESI,
>and so on)comes from the Turkic ethnic name ONOGUR meaning TEN OGUR"

There was a federation at one time, but it doesn't say that only
Turkish/Turkic people were a part of this federation.



>From "The Thirteenth Trib" by Arthur Koestler.

>"We also hear of a fearful encounter which St.Cyril,the Apostle of the 
>Slav,had with a Magyar horde in 860,on his way to Khazaria.He was saying 
>his prayers when they rushed at him luporum more ululantes-HOWLING IN THE 
>MANNER OF WOLVES".

Where does this say that Magyars are Turkish or Mongolian? This wolf
business is an old myth from Central Asia, and just because they
howled like wolves during war doesn't make them Turkish. Lots of
people have had "war calls" of all types.




>From "Britannica"(Languages of the world).

>"Recent study indicates that it is posible to speak of a Uralic racial 
>type,an intermediate stage between the European and the Mongoloid,the 

This is about a physical type not language, and nobody said that
the Central Asians are not a mixture of Europoids and Mongoloids.
These are simple racial types.



>From "Britanica" Hungarian.


>"The proto-Hungarians were apparently an ethnic blend of Ugric(Mongoloid) 
>and Turkish peoples living in western Siberia...The Hungarians were the 

Yes, they mixed racially. So what? They then mixed with the peoples
inhabiting Hungary, many of whom were probably Slavs. They could
have mixed earlier with the Germanic Goths too.


Although Bulgarian is a Slavic language, the original Bulgars were
Turkish/Turkic and they assimilated into the Slavic substrata.
That doesn't make Bulgarians Mongolians.







-- 
Regards, Mark

http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey         

In article >,  > wrote:
>Sziasztok!
>
>My name's Nicola (Miklňs) and I would like to get in touch with nice 
>Hungarian females

Who wouldn't?

> with a sense of humour, aged 18-25, speaking Italian or 
>English, for lasting friendship. I'm 24 y.o., 175 cms tall, dark 
>haired, brown eyed, slim; I have a degree in Business Economics and I 
>will be relocating to Budapest next Autumn for a one and a half year's 
>period of work. I'd like to start a correspondence for the time being, 

This guy doesn't waste any time, does he? ;-)

Joe

In article > Zsoter Andras,
 writes:

>>kolm (three) - kolme <suomi> - kolm <eesti> - golbma <sabme> - kum <mari> - 
>>	kujim <komi> - kolum <khanty> - harom <magyar>

>>pane (head, end) -  paa <suomi> - pea <eesti> - pom <komi> - fei <magyar> - 
>>	pa- <hasawa>

>somehow they don't seem to fall into the same cathegory (?)).

In the above two groups the Hungarian words do fall into the same 
cathegory. There was a p -- > f and a k --> h change in Hungarian
compared to the other Finno-Ugric languages.


Finnish --> Hungarian
-------------------
kuute     --> hat (6)
kuolee    --> (ő meg)hal
kulla     --> hall
kala      --> hal
kuu       --> háj
kalin     --> háló
kalvo     --> hályog
kusi      --> húgy
koja      --> héj
kuu       --> hó(nap)
kusiainen --> hangya
kainalo   --> hónalj

puu       --> fa
palella   --> fagy
pakkua    --> fak(ad)
pala      --> falat
pää       --> fej
pelätä    --> fél


Tamás

Szaszvari Peter irta:

> Ez csodalatos, hogyan sikerult Nemenyinek elerni, hogy a Petofiben interjut 
> keszitsenek vele?

Felkertek ra!

Fekete Zoltan irta:

>Nehany heti intenziv hecckampany csodakra kepes az erdeklodes
>felkorbacsolasahoz ;-(. Az igazi kerdes nem ez, hanem: ha jogserelem erte
>volna NPA-t, akkor miert nem a dontesert felelos munkaltatot cibalja
>birosag ele 'wrongful dismissal' cimen ahelyett, hogy a mediaban
>serenykedik es a "feljelentoin" valo peres bosszuallassal fenyeget? 

Nos a kerdesre konnyu a valasz. A munkaltato gerinctelenul visszalepett a 
hamis vadjaitol. De kulonben sem a munkaltatoval van bajom, hanem az aljas
feljelentgetokkel. Kerdesem csak az, hogy amennyiben a feljelentok jogosan
jartak el, ugy miert bujkalnak meg mindig az ismeretlenseg moge rejtozven.
Nos a hecckampany egyeni nezopont kerdese. Ebben az esetben Fekete Zoltane! 

>Az a teny, hogy az amerikai birosagra sokkal kevesebb hatassal lenne az
>alkotmanyra (a munkaszerzodesnek ellentmondo szamitogep-hasznalat fole
>kiterjedo allitolagos vedelem forrasara) valo fals hivatkozas mint a
>Petofi radio feloldalasan tajekoztatott kozonsegere, nyilvan csak mellekes
>befolyassal volt a dolgok ilyeten menetere... 

Fals hivatkozzas? Fekete Zoltan mennyire ismeri az ugy hatteret, hogy ilyen
arrogans modon nyilatkozik? Vagy hivatalbol tamad? :-)

NPA.

Plamen Malinov ) wrote:
>	I want to give a small comparison of Uralic languages - Proto-Uralic 
>(reconstructed), Finnish <suomi> and Estonian <eesti> (both Baltic Finnic), 
>Lapp <sabme> (together with the first two - to the subgroup of North Finnic), 
>Mari <mari> - singular in the Finnic subgroup, Komi <komi> - Permic Finnic, 
>Khant <khanty> - Ob-Ugric, Hungarian <magyar> (both with Khant - Ugric), and 
>Nenets <hasawa> - Samoyedic. I am sorry, but my computer has not Umlauts.
>	Each entry begins with the reconstructed Proto-Uralic form. 
>	For more - please, see The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, vol. 22, 
>Macropaedia, 15th edition, 1990.

>ukte (one) - yhte <suomi> - uht <eesti> - okta <sabme> - ikte <mari> - 
>	utik <komi> - it <khanty> - egy <magyar>

>kakte (two) - kahte <suomi> - kaht <eesti> - guokte <sabme> - kok <mari> - 
>	kyk <komi> - kat <khanty> - ket <magyar>

>kolm (three) - kolme <suomi> - kolm <eesti> - golbma <sabme> - kum <mari> - 
>	kujim <komi> - kolum <khanty> - harom <magyar>

>nelja (four) -  nelja <suomi> - neli <eesti> - njaellje <sabme> - nyl <mari>-
>	nol <komi> - nula <khanty> - negy <magyar>

>pane (head, end) -  paa <suomi> - pea <eesti> - pom <komi> - fei <magyar> - 
>	pa- <hasawa>

[snip]

 Well, this list is very unscientific!
You should give the accent marks and other diacritical points, also
it would be nice to indicate what these words really are (I mean
what is their grammatical case etc, or how the stem was derived --
somehow they don't seem to fall into the same cathegory (?)).
[Well, I am not 100% sure about the latter one, but the diacritical
marks [e'kezetek] are missing.]

Andras

In article >,  says...
>
>    [===========================================================]
>    [  On July 16/96 in >  ]
>    [   (Maria Egorov) claimed:              ]
>    [  |Mr.,I attacked you on two fronts                        ]
>    [  |1. The identity of the Hungarians.                      ]
>    [  |2. The identity of the Jews living in Hungary.          ]
>    [===========================================================]
>
>   [============================================================]
>   [ On July 7/96  (Maria Egorov) declared:  ]
>   [ |In the list of the so called Hungarian scientists you     ]
>   [ |included Austrians like Robert Barany, Richard Zsiymondy, ]
>   [ |etc. The rest of the scientists presented by you are Jews ]
>   [ |and Slavs. Many of them having their names magyarized.    ]
>   [ |The Hungarians sent over 300,000 Jews to forced labor     ]
>   [ |camps and GAS CHAMBERS during WW2. (activity which was    ]
>   [ |concluded proudly by the Hungarians, without German       ]
>   [ |supervision). Knowing these facts, do you think it is     ]
>   [ |easy for the Jews born in Hungary, survivors of the       ]
>   [ |holocaust, (who are living abroad for obvious reasons) to ]
>   [ |identify themselves as Hungarians? NOT AT ALL.            ]
>   [============================================================]
>
>I intervened
>
>[===================================================================]
>[ On July 8/96 in >                ]
>[  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                           ]
>[ |Wrong. The great Hungarian poet, George Faludy, visited my home  ]
>[ |several times. He's a Jew. He suffered at the hands of the Nazis.]
>[ |He also suffered at the hands of the Communists. He is proud of  ]
>[ |his Hungarian identity, his Hungarian language, his Hungarian    ]
>[ |culture. In spite of 20 fruitful and peaceful years in Toronto,  ]
>[ |Canada, his Hungarianness compelled him to return to his beloved ]
>[ |Hungary to end his days in his homeland.                         ]
>[ |                                                                 ]
>[ |A good friend of Faludy's, George Egri, also a Hungarian Jew,    ]
>[ |who lived in Toronto for decades, returned to Hungary after the  ]
>[ |Communists ate dirt. He was a journalist and columnist in        ]
>[ |Toronto. I had many visits with him at his home and mine. When I ]
>[ |met up with him in Budapest, he waxed poetic about being "home,  ]
>[ |I am home again." George Egri also suffered the same situation   ]
>[ | as George Faludy.                                               ]
>[ |                                                                 ]
>[ |Another good friend of George Faludy and George Egri, who is     ]
>[ |also a Hungarian Jew, and who shared their experience in Hungary ]
>[ |-- also had been imprisoned together in the infamous Rajk        ]
>[ |concentration camp, although not returning to Hungary (because   ]
>[ |he has a good life in Canada)does not forsake his Hungarianness. ]
>[ |His name is George Gabori. His experiences can be read in his    ]
>[ |book, WHEN EVILS WERE MOST FREE.                                 ]
>[===================================================================]
>
>And then...
>
>   [============================================================]
>   [ On July 9/96  (Maria Egorov) wrote:     ]
>   [ |do you think Albert Einstein after arriving in United     ]
>   [ |States, started to yell "I am a German"?.NOT AT ALL. Do   ]
>   [ |you really think that the Jews from Hungary (those who    ]
>   [ |escaped the death camps)came to United States and proudly ]
>   [ |said:"I am a Hungarian" or "long live Hungary"? Do you    ]
>   [ |really think that these same Jews(only older)would change ]
>   [ |their minds just because you changed the government?. Or  ]
>   [ |Any gesture of public relation(like inviting Jews to your ]
>   [ |home,etc.)will attenuate the pain,but they will definitely]
>   [ |not become the Hungarians, Austrians or Germans you wish  ]
>   [ |them to be(PERIOD) In the past Hungary, Germany & Austria ]
>   [ |called the Slavs,Jews&Gipsies: "RATS"&"SUBHUMAN" This     ]
>   [ |mentality still persists in Hungary and it is hidden as   ]
>   [ |it is in Germany and Austria of today. In these           ]
>   [ |circumstances I know that there are no Jews who would     ]
>   [ |proudly say:I am a Hungarian.                             ]
>   [============================================================]
>
>So I replied:
>
>[====================================================================]
>[ On July 11/96 in >               ]
>[  (Wally Keeler) wrote:                            ]
>[ |If you read George Faludy's autobiographical book, My Happy Days  ]
>[ |In Hell, you'd find that he had no problem with being a Hungarian ]
>[ |and Jew. He made absolutely no effort to hide nor to even play    ]
>[ |down the fact. He was neither ashamed of being Hungarian nor      ]
>[ |Jewish. He certainly didn't BECOME AMERICAN. Although he moved to ]
>[ |Toronto for a couple decades, and appreciated it more than any    ]
>[ |other place, he remained a proud Hungarian and Jew, even with     ]
>[ |Canadian citizenship. I knew other Hungarians and Jews and they   ]
>[ |never expressed the kind of crap you think they do.               ]
>[====================================================================]
>
>I overlooked mentioning a friend and ally of the Peoples Republic of
>Poetry, and publisher of many books of poetry and prose, Robert Zend, 
who
>was also a Hungarian Jew. He was always proud of both characteristics 
and
>he had never denied those characteristics. At poetry readings he was
>introduced as a Hungarian. The same went for George Faludy when I 
attended
>his poetry readings. These are public affairs. 
>
>I can mentioned 2nd rate poet and first rate columnist, George Jonas, 
who
>is also a Hungarian Jew. (he had once been married to "right-wing"
>columnist, Barbara Amiel, who is now married to Canadian and 
international
>media mogul, Conrad Black.) In his [Jonas] published works and 
activities,
>he had no hesitation in declaring his Hungarianness. 
>
>In spite of the fact that I presented several very public Hungarian Jews
>who never denied, indeed proclaimed, their Hungarianness, you declared:
>     [=======================================================]
>     [ |I know that there are no Jews who would proudly say: ]
>     [ |I am a Hungarian.                                    ]
>     [=======================================================]
>
>Question: Can you name any Hungarian Jew who publicly disavowed his
>          Hungarianness?
>-- 
>Wally Keeler                                    Poetry
>Creative Intelligence Agency                    is
>Peoples Republic of Poetry                      Poetency


Wally:  First of all, I am Hungarian and I am Jewis - msot of my friends 
are.  I also have very good friends who are Hungarian and not Jewish (no 
angst in socializing).  When Canadian Jews ask me why I tell them that my 
nationality is Hungarian when I am Jewish, I try to explain that: I was 
born in Hungary, my mother tongue is Hungarian, my culture, my cuisine is 
Hungarian.  Fiddler on the Roof is a terrific theatre piece, but to me 
just as alien as to gentiles - it is not my culture.

Re: Hungarian Jewish playwrights: Ferenc Molnar, Jeno Heltai (he was 
Theodore Herzl's cousin - changed his name from Herzl to Heltai); the 
poet Miklos Radnoti; the writers Jeno Rejto, Arthur Koestler and Georg 
Mikes;  then, do you people on this list know that the famous Margit 
Kovacs was Jewish too?  Then there was Bence Szabolcsi and Antal Szerb.
Yes, Maria, we think of ourselves as Hungarians.  Rabbi Landeszman was a 
little too proud ouf our contributions to Hungarian culture - that's why 
he is now in Toronto. The whole world is anti-semitic, not only the 
Hungarians.  Kalman Mikszath once said that an anti-semite is who hates 
the Jews more than it is customary.  This is what happened during the 
holocaust. 

Agnes

Thank you Morgoth,
Many of the Russian I know are good hard working people, and they
are good for America.

...gary...

Morgoth wrote:
> 
> I have a few russian friends, some are good and some are bad. Most are
> hard working, model citizens. They are generally not into doing many of
> the things that US Americans do that are illegal. Most seem to honestly
> want to work hard, make some money, become american citizens and enrich
> the US. I work with a few at where I work. They are the cleaning crew,
> also they work in th eproduce department. One of my friends is a pilot for
> one of the local airlines (he used to fly AN-2s for Aeroflot in siberia)..
> One is a computer hacker/cracker (he is still young, but he works hard).
> I at times wish I had more people working for me who worked as hard as
> they do. I am an Assitant Manager at the local Burger King, yes not an
> exciting/glamourous job, but I have to deal with mostly american juviniles
> and their problems/hormones/attitudes.
> 
> And yes I know one lazy russian, who came to america for welfare, and he
> is in jail for attempted rape/aggrevated assault, I wish they would deport
> him back to Russia, they are less willing to put up with his attitude than
> we are.
> 
> Morgoth
> 
> Friend to all who come to the earth!

Peter Szaszvari > wrote:

>Valoban? Sajatos szelektiv naivitas ez. 
>Szoval a radiot ugy kell elkepzelni mint aki orkodik az igazsag az egyenloseg 
>es mas hasonlo magasztos eszmek oldalan, es most talalta ezt a kirivo esetet, 
>egy artatlan ember porbatiprasat egy demokratikusnak mondott orszagban, hat mi
 
>sem termeszetesebb, hogy ez musorba valo.

Azt hiszem a dolog nyitja sokkal egyszerubb.  Az emlitett musorban
Szilagyi a szamitogepes temakra specializal, s mint ilyen, "vadaszik" az
erdekes tortenetekre a komputerek vilagabol.  Ez nyilvan eleg erdekes
volt mint "human interest story" is, aminek valoszinuleg csak az elso
felvonasa zajlott csak le.

>Nagy muveszet a sok eset kozul kivalasztani a tipikust, azt a megrazo ereju 
>peldat, amely meltan erdemli meg mindannyiunk figyelmet...(es bla, es bla, es 
>blablablabla...)

Azert nem kene annyira nyilvanvaloan irigykedned, hogy nem teged
interjuvoltak meg!

>Eszembe jut az a masik eset amikor a radio interjukat keszitett olyan 
>"uzletemberekkel" (Beremenyi utan) akik egymas utani harom heten nyertek otost
 
>a lotton. A dolog addig tartott amig valaki beszolt, hogy talan megsem kellene
 
>ennyire reklamozni az adocsalokat. (Mindenki meg volt lepve...)

Hogy neked mik jutnak eszedbe!

PJ

Zoli Fekete, keeper of hungarian-faq > wrote:
>
> Nehany heti intenziv hecckampany csodakra kepes az erdeklodes
>felkorbacsolasahoz ;-(.

Hecckampany, amit valoszinuleg a te elftarsaid okoztak a jellemtelen
feljelentesukkel. 

> Az igazi kerdes nem ez, hanem: ha jogserelem erte
>volna NPA-t, akkor miert nem a dontesert felelos munkaltatot cibalja
>birosag ele 'wrongful dismissal' cimen ahelyett, hogy a mediaban
>serenykedik es a "feljelentoin" valo peres bosszuallassal fenyeget? 

Tudod te egyaltalan mibe kerulnek itt az ugyvedek?  Olyat talalni pedig,
aki elvallalja az ugyet "contingency fee" alapon, valoszinu nem olyan
gyors dolog.  Egyebkent en nem lennek olyan biztos, hogy az ugynek vege
van. Kulonben ha en Nemenyi lennek, akkor megprobalkoznek a Freedom of
Information torveny adta lehetoseg reven megszerezni a feljelentes
szoveget a DOE-tol.  Persze ha per lesz, akkor valoszinuleg a subpoena
segitsegevel is meg lehet azt szerezni.

> Az a teny, hogy az amerikai birosagra sokkal kevesebb hatassal lenne az
>alkotmanyra (a munkaszerzodesnek ellentmondo szamitogep-hasznalat fole
>kiterjedo allitolagos vedelem forrasara) valo fals hivatkozas mint a

Amilyen kreativak tudnak itt lenni az ugyvedek, biztos van par lehetoseg
az Argonne akcioja ellen.  Ha pl. bebizonyosodik, hogy ott valoban az
alkalmazottak e-mailezesenek tulnyomo resze privat, (ami szerintem ugy
is van), akkor talan be lehetne kapaszkodni a "selective enforcement"
alapjan.

>Petofi radio feloldalasan tajekoztatott kozonsegere, nyilvan csak mellekes
>befolyassal volt a dolgok ilyeten menetere... 

Mi volt a feloldalas benne?  Hogy nem kozoltek NPA "anti-semitic"
irasainak szoveget?  De hiszen vegulis nem az volt a hivatalos ok a
meneszteshez.

Egyebkent NPA nekem is megkuldte a bizonyitasi anyagokat, amik "proof
positive"-kent igazoltak azt, amit o maga is megirt az ugyrol az
Interneten.  Az viszont ertheto, hogy ellensegeinek nem kuldi meg a
bizonyitekokat, mivel hulye lenne minden kartyajat megmutatni az ellene
askalodoknak.

PJ

What the heck is an autodialect??? a language spoken by cars? regional
idioms that are easily mastered?

In article >, Gabe Bokor  > wrote:
>Joseph U. & Sharon W. Hill wrote:
>>
>> Gabe Bokor wrote:
>> >
>
>> > The correct sentence is "sajnos kávé nincs" -- nominative.
>> > Kávét is accusative (direct object).
>> >
>> > GabeGabe!!
>>
>> The hack with the coffee! How did you manage to write the accented
>> letters?
>
>
>I use a Mac, but it actually doesn't matter as long as both parties
>have a mailer that uses MIME encoding, such as Eudora (which I use).
>Obviously you were able to read them, which means that you can also
>generate accented characters whether you have a Mac or Windows.
>People who have non-MIME mailers received kávé as kavi.

Not always, I recived k<black square>v<black square>

-James

Brad Smith > wrote:
>Terrorist Bombing of the Khobar Towers, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia

>On June 25, 1996, a brutal and cowardly terrorist attack on a 
>multi-national peacekeeping force in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia left 19 dead 
>and hundreds injured. These peacekeepers were enforcing United Nations 
>sanctions and the dead and injured represent citizens from several 
>nations. 

I don't condone the attack on US miltary personnel in Saudi Arabia, but
I have to wonder how the US government can label such an act as terrorism.
This was a military base which was attacked.  I think the Americans might
want to ask themselves how their military was so incompetent it allowed
this attack to take place especially after they received warnings months
in advance that this sort of thing would happen.

If innocent American civilians were killed then I would agree with the
terrorist 
label.  But an attack on a military target is a legitimate act of war and not
terrorism.

Geoff

-- 
E.G. Engelbrecht                            School of Mechanical Engineering
E-Mail:      Cranfield University, U.K.
   
   | ______       __     _____________________________________________
   |__\ O|\ O ___/  \   / WWW Home Page:                              |
  ( ** \=|-\='CG-EGE/---| http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/public/me/me946/ |
   |-=__\|__\__==-\'    \_____________________________________________|
   |  | /          o
      (o)

In article >,
    (James Macgill) wrote:
>In article >, Gabe Bokor  > wrote:
>>I use a Mac, but it actually doesn't matter as long as both parties
>>have a mailer that uses MIME encoding, such as Eudora (which I use).
>>Obviously you were able to read them, which means that you can also
>>generate accented characters whether you have a Mac or Windows.
>>People who have non-MIME mailers received kávé as kavi.
>
>Not always, I recived k<black square>v<black square>
>
>-James

Yes, that's why most of us don't use this feature even if we could.


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

James Macgill wrote:

> >> Gabe Bokor wrote:
> >> >
> >
> >> > The correct sentence is "sajnos kávé nincs" -- nominative.
> >> > Kávét is accusative (direct object).


> >People who have non-MIME mailers received kávé as kavi.
> 
> Not always, I recived k<black square>v<black square>


But I received your quoteback with the correct diacritics. Apparently 
they were there all the time, just waiting for correct decoding <g>. 

Gabe

 (Yigit kavurmacioglu) wrote:

>I have serious problem of understanding the logic of previous lines. This kind
 
>of mind set feeds these and other kinds of terrorist acts. Every reasonable 
>person should understand and act in a way that there is no "good " terrorism ,
 
>today or tomorrow everybody will suffer and most importantly human rights 
>should be for humans not for any kind of terrorists.

The term "terrorism" is IMHO a meaningless one. It does not describe
anything specific. Let me take a try at a good definition. What is
usually meant with "terrorism" is decentralized paramilitary action
against human and physical targets. The military technology
"terrorism" is appropriate for small decentralized non-nation groups.
Afterall, organizations like Hamas, the Jihad, the IRA and the like
are unable to employ large contingents of armed forces (figher
aircraft, tanks, cruise missiles, divisional-strength infantry, ...).
Furthermore, mission motivation and mission goals often are not
conducive to large open military campaigns. Hence,
"terroristic"/paramilitary action is both appropriate and effective
for such non-nation groups.

-------------
Marcel Bigger
Purdue University         http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~bigger/

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On 18 Jul 1996, Clone Lynx User wrote:
> 	Would it be possible to simply ignore this
> 	sorry character? 
 That would surely be the best for all of us ;-(!

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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