> ! hellblauer-metallic PEUGOT 309  gestohlen  !  <

In der Nacht vom So. 11.6.1995  auf den Mo.12. Juni wurde in der Karpulsgasse (
nähe 
Krankenhaus Meidling 
oder Lehrlingsheim ÖBB oder George Washington Hof), ein hellblauer metallic far
bener 
viertueriger Peugot 
309 gestohlen.

Am morgen des 12. Juni wurden die Kennzeichen dieses Peugots in Fischamend (oes
tl. 
v. Wien, Richtung 
Bratislava) aufgefunden.

Der Verlust dieses Auto schmerzt,  meinen Freund (den Eigentuemer des gestohlen
en 
Gefaehrtes) deshalb sehr, 
weil er lange zeit arbeitslos war, er sich dieses Auto gerade vor 10 Tagen von 
seinen ersten, hart erarbeiteten 
Gehaeltern geleistet hat und leider nicht Diebstahlsversichert war.

Bitte antworte mir bitte per email,  falls Du Beobachtungen zu einer der 
aufgelisteten Fragen gemacht hast. 
Auch die geringsten, unsinnigsten Details koennten hier wichtig sein. 

1)	Hat jemand in der Nacht vom So.11.6.1995 auf Mo. 12.6.1995 verdachtige 
Personen im Gebiet des 
Tatortes beobachtet?

2)	Ist jemandem in der selben Nacht, auf den (Auto-) Strassen zwischen 
Favoriten und Fischamend  ein 
hellblauer metallic farbener viertueriger Peugot 309  mit dem Wiener Kennzeiche
n 
W-4324 AI 
aufgefallen?
(detaillierte Beschreibung unter Punkt 8)

3)	Sind jemandem in der selben Nacht Personen (oder ein oder mehrere Autos) in 
der Umgebung von 
Fischamend aufgefallen? Insbesondere auf einem der zahlreichen Feldwege, in der
 
naehe der Autobahn? 

4)	Hat jemand vor dem 12.6.1995 Personen beobachtet, welche in- oder 
auslaendische KFZ-Kennzeichen bei 
sich trugen? 

5)	Hat jemand vor dem 12.6.1995 verdaechtiges Werkzeug, welches zu einem 
Autoeinbruch geeignet sein 
koennte und/oder (blanko?) Zuslassungsscheine gesehen?

6)	Hat jemand an den Grenzuebergaengen in die Slowakai oder nach Ungarn in 
jener Nacht auffaelliges  
Verhalten von Personen (Reisende, Zoellner, etc.) bemerkt welches in Verbindung
 mit 
diesem Diebstahl 
stehen koennte?

7)	Ist jemandem seit dem 11.6. ein Fahrzeug (Details siehe 8) aufgefallen, 
welches eine neuen Farbanstrich 
oder eine neue Schlossganitur bekommen hat?

8)	Ist jemandem seit dem 11.6.1995 ein Fahrzeug mit folgenden Merkmalen beim 
Auftanken, an einer 
Raststation, vor einer Ampel etc. aufgefallen: 

*	hellblauer metallic farbener viertueriger Peugot 309 (Farbe wertlos, wenn er 
umgespritz wurde)
*	duennen roten Farbstreifen mit an beiden vorderen Kotfluegeln befindlichen 
roten  Aufschrift SX 
*	zwei weisze Breitenstrahler  
*	eine mit Glasfaser und Silikon ausgebesserte Delle am linken  Ende der 
Stoszstange (von vorne 
gesehen)
*	ca. 39-40 tausend km Fahrzeugstand
*	Fahrgestellnummer VF33ABDZ210048698
*	Motornummer BDZ/000245
*	nur fuer bleifreies Benzin geeignet


9)	In dem Auto befanden sich weiters: Diverse Lehrbuecher zur 
Qualitaetssicherung,  sowie ein SHARP E-
500 Pocket Computer. Sind jemanden diese Bestandteile in den vergangene zwei Wo
chen 
aufgefallen (zum 
Kauf Angeboten worden, im Mistkuebel, in einer Ecke gelegen etc.) 

10)	In der Gegend um Fischamend kommt es seit 1990 vermehrt zu gut organisierte
n 
Einbruechen und 
Diebstaelen. So wurde beispielsweise exakt eine Woche bevor der Peugot entwende
t 
wurde ein Renault 
ESPACE seiner fünf Sitze entledigt. Hat jemand diesbezueglich (oder allgemein) 
Beobachtungen gemacht? 

Ich bin  kein "Reserve-Sheriffs" und moechten dies auch nicht werden. 
Mein Freund und ich haben jedoch die bittere Erfahrung der Gleichgueligkeit und
 
Ohnmacht der Polizei in 
Oesterreich, der Slovakai und Ungarn selbst erlebt, sodaaz wir hoffen, ueber di
esen 
Aufruf vielleicht einige 
Beobachtungen sammeln zu koennen, welche eventuell zur Wiederauffindung des 
Fahrzeuges fuehren 
koennten.
In diesem Falle kann ich garantieren, dasz sich mein Freund erkentlich zeigen w
ird.

Falls Du anonym bleiben willst, so habe ich kein Problem damit; schickt mir ein
fach 
eine Mitteilung von einem 
anonymen remailer.

Bitte gib diese Information an alle Autofahrer und aufmerksamen Freunde weiter 
die 
Du kennst.  

Danke!

Patrick )
Falls Du keinen Zugang zu electronic mail hast, bitte ruf zu einer menschenwuer
digen 
Zeit unter 
(+43-1)-33-00-659 an. Bitte laenger leuten lassen.

> ! hellblauer-metallic PEUGOT 309  gestohlen  !  <

In der Nacht vom So. 11.6.1995  auf den Mo.12. Juni wurde in der 
Karpulsgasse (nähe 
Krankenhaus Meidling 
oder Lehrlingsheim ÖBB oder George Washington Hof), ein hellblauer 
metallic farbener 
viertueriger Peugot 
309 gestohlen.

Am morgen des 12. Juni wurden die Kennzeichen dieses Peugots in 
Fischamend (oestl. 
v. Wien, Richtung 
Bratislava) aufgefunden.

Der Verlust dieses Auto schmerzt,  meinen Freund (den Eigentuemer des 
gestohlenen 
Gefaehrtes) deshalb sehr, 
weil er lange zeit arbeitslos war, er sich dieses Auto gerade vor 10 
Tagen von 
seinen ersten, hart erarbeiteten 
Gehaeltern geleistet hat und leider nicht Diebstahlsversichert war.

Bitte antworte mir bitte per email,  falls Du Beobachtungen zu einer der 
aufgelisteten Fragen gemacht hast. 
Auch die geringsten, unsinnigsten Details koennten hier wichtig sein. 

1)	Hat jemand in der Nacht vom So.11.6.1995 auf Mo. 12.6.1995 
verdachtige 
Personen im Gebiet des 
Tatortes beobachtet?

2)	Ist jemandem in der selben Nacht, auf den (Auto-) Strassen 
zwischen 
Favoriten und Fischamend  ein 
hellblauer metallic farbener viertueriger Peugot 309  mit dem Wiener 
Kennzeichen 
W-4324 AI 
aufgefallen?
(detaillierte Beschreibung unter Punkt 8)

3)	Sind jemandem in der selben Nacht Personen (oder ein oder mehrere 
Autos) in 
der Umgebung von 
Fischamend aufgefallen? Insbesondere auf einem der zahlreichen Feldwege, 
in der 
naehe der Autobahn? 

4)	Hat jemand vor dem 12.6.1995 Personen beobachtet, welche in- oder 
auslaendische KFZ-Kennzeichen bei 
sich trugen? 

5)	Hat jemand vor dem 12.6.1995 verdaechtiges Werkzeug, welches zu 
einem 
Autoeinbruch geeignet sein 
koennte und/oder (blanko?) Zuslassungsscheine gesehen?

6)	Hat jemand an den Grenzuebergaengen in die Slowakai oder nach 
Ungarn in 
jener Nacht auffaelliges  
Verhalten von Personen (Reisende, Zoellner, etc.) bemerkt welches in 
Verbindung mit 
diesem Diebstahl 
stehen koennte?

7)	Ist jemandem seit dem 11.6. ein Fahrzeug (Details siehe 8) 
aufgefallen, 
welches eine neuen Farbanstrich 
oder eine neue Schlossganitur bekommen hat?

8)	Ist jemandem seit dem 11.6.1995 ein Fahrzeug mit folgenden 
Merkmalen beim 
Auftanken, an einer 
Raststation, vor einer Ampel etc. aufgefallen: 

*	hellblauer metallic farbener viertueriger Peugot 309 (Farbe 
wertlos, wenn er 
umgespritz wurde)
*	duennen roten Farbstreifen mit an beiden vorderen Kotfluegeln 
befindlichen 
roten  Aufschrift SX 
*	zwei weisze Breitenstrahler  
*	eine mit Glasfaser und Silikon ausgebesserte Delle am linken  
Ende der 
Stoszstange (von vorne 
gesehen)
*	ca. 39-40 tausend km Fahrzeugstand
*	Fahrgestellnummer VF33ABDZ210048698
*	Motornummer BDZ/000245
*	nur fuer bleifreies Benzin geeignet


9)	In dem Auto befanden sich weiters: Diverse Lehrbuecher zur 
Qualitaetssicherung,  sowie ein SHARP E-
500 Pocket Computer. Sind jemanden diese Bestandteile in den vergangene 
zwei Wochen 
aufgefallen (zum 
Kauf Angeboten worden, im Mistkuebel, in einer Ecke gelegen etc.) 

10)	In der Gegend um Fischamend kommt es seit 1990 vermehrt zu gut 
organisierten 
Einbruechen und 
Diebstaelen. So wurde beispielsweise exakt eine Woche bevor der Peugot 
entwendet 
wurde ein Renault 
ESPACE seiner fünf Sitze entledigt. Hat jemand diesbezueglich (oder 
allgemein) 
Beobachtungen gemacht? 

Ich bin  kein "Reserve-Sheriffs" und moechten dies auch nicht werden. 
Mein Freund und ich haben jedoch die bittere Erfahrung der 
Gleichgueligkeit und 
Ohnmacht der Polizei in 
Oesterreich, der Slovakai und Ungarn selbst erlebt, sodaaz wir hoffen, 
ueber diesen 
Aufruf vielleicht einige 
Beobachtungen sammeln zu koennen, welche eventuell zur Wiederauffindung 
des 
Fahrzeuges fuehren 
koennten.
In diesem Falle kann ich garantieren, dasz sich mein Freund erkentlich 
zeigen wird.

Falls Du anonym bleiben willst, so habe ich kein Problem damit; schickt 
mir einfach 
eine Mitteilung von einem 
anonymen remailer.

Bitte gib diese Information an alle Autofahrer und aufmerksamen Freunde 
weiter die 
Du kennst.  

Danke!

Patrick )
Falls Du keinen Zugang zu electronic mail hast, bitte ruf zu einer 
menschenwuerdigen 
Zeit an. Bitte laenger leuten lassen.

If anyone knows of an available apartment preferably in districts 1,2 or   
5-9 in Budapest, available with 1 or 2 bedrooms, phone and TV preferred,   
please let me know, I'd really appreciate any leads. 
 
Nagyon halas lennek ha ertesitene akarki akinek vagy lakasa vagy   
tapasztalata van egy Budapesti lakassal, egy vagy ket haloszobas, az 1,2   
vagy 5-9 keruletben.

I've just got a CD-ROM from Hungary featuring this group.  This is
supposedly the first such CD that you play on your PC instead of a
CD player because it's not an audio CD.  This has the advantage of
including video with it that you can play back on you MS WINDOWS.
Quite a nice production, really.

Since I've never heard about this TOPO group before, I wonder how known
it is in Hungary.  Their music is kinda' interesting, a mix of Western
rock and Hungarian folk music, reminescent of the Illes style.
Is this style still "in" in Hungary?

Joe

In article >  (J
anos Szamosfalvi) writes:
>I don't remember the date of the great vowel shift in English, but 

That's why I said 500 years.     -- Olivier

this is a test

Here is a press release from the FBI.
I downloaded the press release from the U.S. Newswire BBS in
Maryland at (410) 363-0834.
I do not work for the FBI or the U.S. government.

 FBI Director Announces Graduation of First Session of
International Law Enforcement Academy

 Contact: FBI National Press Office, 202-324-3691

   WASHINGTON, June 16   -- FBI Director Louis J. Freeh
said today that 33 law enforcement officers from Hungary,
Poland and the Czech Republic completed their training in the first
session of the International Law Enforcement Academy (ILEA) in
Budapest, Hungary.
   There are 10 students all at the middle management level of
their police services and one counselor from each of the three
countries represented in this first session.  At the graduation
ceremony today Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), chairman of the Senate
Juciciary Committee, gave the commencement address.  Also attending
were senior government and law enforcement representatives from
Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland and the United States.
   The ILEA is a multi-national police training facility designed
to train officers from Central and Eastern Europe, Russia and the
Newly Independent States.  The academy is a joint initiative among
the United States, Hungary, countries sending students to the
academy and a number of Western European nations that have pledged
support.  ILEA seeks to develop closer working ties and greater
cooperation among the participating countries on a wide range of
crime control matters.  The first session began on April 24.
   Freeh said, "Europe and the United States share a common concern
-- crime and violence -- and the academy represents the common
vision of democratic law enforcement and the realization of the
need for standardized international police training.  ILEA will
yield solid working relationships with law enforcement officers in
the emerging democracies of Central and Eastern Europe.  The
training fosters a commitment to the rule of law and develops
strong partners essential to our efforts to stop the spread of
emerging organized crime groups that now freely transcend national
borders."
   To date, 27 countries from Central and Eastern Europe have
indicated an interest in sending students to the facility, where
the curriculum is modeled after the successful FBI National Academy
in Quantico, Va.  Initially, 11 countries will send students to the
academy -- Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Latvia,
Estonia, Lithuania, Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria and Russia.
   Freeh said, "The first session was extremely successful and the
students selected for training represented some of the best future
leaders of their law enforcement organizations."
   Freeh said the FBI is deeply grateful to the Department of State
and the Department of Justice for their crucial support in the
planning and development of priority programs to train foreign law
enforcement personnel and develop joint multi-nation programs to
prevent and combat a wide range of deadly crimes.  "Many officials
have aided these efforts but special thanks go to Secretary of
State Warren Christopher, Attorney General Janet Reno and Assistant
Secretary of State Robert Gelbard," Freeh said.
   The academy's training program is based on an eight-week
professional development course.  Each course will eventually have
about 50 students.  There will be five courses per year for a total
of 250 police officers to be trained annually.  The curriculum
focuses on the investigative process, ethics, rule of law in a
democratic society, leadership, personnel management, financial
management and other significant law enforcement matters.
Additionally, there are short-term training courses in specific
types of investigations such as organized crime, financial crimes,
drug trafficking, terrorism and nuclear trafficking.  Instruction
throughout the course was provided by law enforcement officers from
the FBI, DEA, U.S. Secret Service, ATF, U.S. Customs, IRS and the
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.  In addition, expert
consultants from the academic community made presentations to the
class.
   "We must fight crime at the critical points of origin.  Crime
that originates in Europe harms the United States just as our own
crime problems cause harm when they find their way overseas.  The
academy and the relationships that flow from it represent a first
line of defense for all of the participating nations against
burgeoning international crime and terrorism," Freeh said.

 -30-

press release forwarded to Usenet by

Nigel Allen
52 Manchester Avenue, Toronto, Ontario M6G 1V3, Canada
Internet:    http://www.io.org/~ndallen
Telephone: (416) 535-8916

California telecommunications company looking for business contacts in
Hungary.

If you are interested, or know of any "business" or "commercial" Internet
sites about Hungary please contact us:

Gisele M. Cassee
Amsterdam
The Netherlands
e-mail:

Latom, hogy van egy hivatalos sved ajanlat a skandinav runa-irasra:
 ftp://othello.admin.kth.se/pub/misc/ojarnef/isorunes/iso-runes-proposal2.txta
 ftp://othello.admin.kth.se/pub/misc/ojarnef/isorunes/annex-c-75.gif
 ftp://othello.admin.kth.se/pub/misc/ojarnef/isorunes/annex-c-300.gif
nincs-e kedve egy lelkes magyarnak hasonlo munkat csinalni a regi magyar
rovasiras kulonbozo valtozataival kapcsolatban? Igy az Unicode-ban a kinai,
indiai, maja es mindenfele ismert iras mellett az az iras is kapna helyet,
amire utalt eredetileg az (o-)magyarban az _ir_ meg a _betu_ szo...
-- Udv: Olivier

In article > Bob Hammarberg,
 writes:
>So what are the required dimensions for such a photo,

Anything good between 3 x 4 cm and 4 x 5. They care little
of size. If it is too big they taylor it with scissors and thats
all: your will look funny on that pic.

Tamás

First Interim Report of the CodreAnus Commission on the Causes and
Manifestations of Divergent Think Procedure Concerning Certain Actions of the
Rights Of Man Association (R.O.M.A.)

In spite of universal intelligence, the Idiotcy Quotient (IQ) of the
impoverished Romaniac nation continues to decline, international press
agencies report.

Last month the popularly-elected Siliescu guvno-ment won widespread support
from the Romanian people at home and abroad for immediately acting on the
recommendations of the 500 million lei ($10.95 US) macro-study of the
Antoneskaka subcommittee on sub-nomenclatura classification systems which
concluded that there would be an overall net benefit to the cultural well-
being of Romanians if the R.O.M.A. were officially downgraded to Tigani
because of the rhyme scheme possibilities with golani.

A demographic study in a Funarial suburp of Cluj proved beyond all doubt that
the self-esteem of the Romanian people would dramatically rise in direct
converse proportion to the official lowering of the self-esteem of the
R.O.M.A.

500 Romanian specialists were pulled from the Cernavoda nuclear power station
and assigned to draw up a mono-media multi-mediocre chart using Lotus 3-2-1
(Romanian version) to illuminate the Funarial findings of the aforementioned
study.

Silescu spokespatron, Doran Turd Analescu, claimed that the Romanian guvno-
ment was only following the wise precedent set by the democratic United States
of Abuse (USA). He was referring to the US Department of Agriculture's decree
that tomatoes were vegetables, thereby stabilizing the pricing structure of
the Vegetable Resources (VR) lobby. United States Botanical Scientists (US-BS)
submitted a report proving that the tomatoe was a fruit, but the report was
promptly recycled to toilet paper and exported to Romania as a gesture of good
will in support of Most Flavoured Nation status.

"A tomato by any other name would still be a vegetable so shove that down your
throat and process it for the economy you flabby-brained predecessor of
single-cell idiotcy," said Ms Herpes Kristian diplomatically.

Ms Kristian was replying to a reporter's inquiry about the Constantin Dementia
report published in the Lyon city tabloid, Grande Pop. Dementia obtained some
papyrus documents indicating that the Romanian government had entertained the
idea of calling the R.O.M.A., not tigani, not golani, but euro-nigs.

This was a gesture of international solidarity to honour the Alabama mayor,
Red Neckescu who said, "You can call them black-Americans, or African-
Americans or Romanian-Americans, but way down here in retro-America where
cristian crosses blaze in a glory of Klueless Klutzy Klan light, they's
niggahs, always been niggahs, and always will be niggahs. Until the US
government sees the true light and officially declares them to be niggahs,
they'll never evolve into the next level -- humans."

(Upon hearing this, American m. cristian almost wet her skirt at the inherent
truth of it all.)

When the Romaniac guvno-ment made the official announcement last month, the
Romanian people forgot their hungar, hangovers and headaches to celebrate in
the streets another glorious victory for the Romaniac nation. The digital
elite in diaspora around the Western world hit their keyboards to defend the
Siliescu government decree to the last keystroke on the Internet.

Anyone with the democratic intelligence to suggest that the emporer had no
clothes was promptly arrested by the Secure Tits federal police and given a
brain-enema in the great Romanian tradition of putting a stake through their
head and spinning out more manure in which Romanian intelligence florishes.
              
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  /^^^\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            ------------------(| !o! |)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
                               (_/O\_)     
                                _| |_ 
                               /     \     
                              //(. .)\\ 
                              ||| . ||| 
                               // Y \\    
                              //     \\ 
                              || ( ) || 
                              ||     || 
                             ooO ( ) Ooo 
                                 ( )
                                 
                                                                    
                                  (
                                   )   (
                                  (     )
                              (Guvno, Szar)
                         (Schieb, Kaka, Shit)
                      (VR, Codreanu, Antonescu)
                     (Ceausecu, Romaniacs, Vlad Dracul)
                  (Doran, Mark, Constantin, Dejeu, Anon)
              (the undeservingly miserable Romanian people)
             (buried in the crap&crud of uncompromising idiots)
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

conceived by the Creative Intelligence Agency
& produced by the Ministry of Extraordinary Affairs
under the direction of the POETburo
for the amusement of the POETically-correct POETariet
of the Peoples Republic of POETry

"In the name of Poetic Licence, may Poetic Justice prevail."

"... but I am not so diPOEMatic."


-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

I was asked to forward the message included to the newsgroup. Apropos this
I should mention for those in the USA: I've just heard that the new 
hun.* hierarchy is among the groups offered by AltNet, a commercial NNTP 
provider (base price $5/month, email ).

 Zoli  (note my old full address @bcuxs2 is retired)
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling

Forwarded message:
 +
 +                           PUBLIC ACCESS IN HUNGARY
 +
 +
 +   The aim of our non-profit organisation is to provide Internet access
 +   in Hungary. Access to the Information Superhighway in our country is
 +   now only available via commercial or academic spheres. The commercial
 +   Internet providers are expensive, and therefore not affordable for the
 +   general public. This problem also applies to non-profit organisations
 +   like NGOs, social movements, minority groups and subcultures, whilst
 +   freshly graduated university students, independent art groups and
 +   FidoNet (Bulletin Board System) folks are excluded by high costs as
 +   well. The historical significance of the new Internet possibilities
 +   need not to be merely academic or commercial. Environmental, human
 +   rights, peace and minority movements must also benefit from this very
 +   effective tool. News coming through such networks can often be the
 +   only reliable source of information from supressed countries, or those
 +   areas, which are out of the picture of the traditional mass media.
 +   Digital telecommunication is fast, cheap, uncontrollable and
 +   politically independent.
 +
 +   Our organisation is an answer to the emerging social need for a
 +   low-cost, reliable and non-profit Internet and on-line data provider.
 +   We are planning a complex of services, the financial support needed
 +   will be achieved by appealing to foundations, state funds, companies
 +   and private supporters.
 +
 +   We would like to support the self organizing efforts of local
 +   communities, by means of providing effective communication channels
 +   and information resources. Public Access means to set up a dial-up
 +   server, which enables the user to connect to the global information
 +   superhighway. However, connection itself is not enough : we would like
 +   to fill our server with on-line data from NGOs, to enable them to show
 +   their existing databases, or those that are to be developed. To
 +   overcome technical difficulties we are planning to manufacture low
 +   cost, network oriented machines and supply used hardware and parts as
 +   well. Our machines will come with public domain software ready to run.
 +   We will set up a Help!Desk to help users solve their technical
 +   problems 24 hours a day. Tasks will include installation, maintenance,
 +   system repairs and help for users to get started. We will popularize
 +   cyberculture with the publication of books, manuals, periodicals,
 +   leaflets and fanzines dedicated to the know-how of the Internet. A
 +   CyberCafe will be established, it will be a creative space with public
 +   terminals and serve as a meeting and focal point for the growing
 +   subculture of hungarian hackers, Internet and BBS users.
 +
 +   Our organisation is under heavy construction. Some 20 NGOs support our
 +   initiatives and approximately 200 future users have registered in the
 +   past four weeks. And the registration process continues...
 +
 +     _________________________________________________________________
 +
 +
 +   Our Projects (under heavy construction) :
 +
 +   Server Project (Tamas Szalay -  and Tamas
 +                   Bodoky - )
 +
 +   Art Project (Laszlo Tolgyes -  and Janos
 +                Sugar - )
 +
 +   Help!Desk Project (Chris Swart - )
 +
 +   Digital Island Project (Adam Kepecs- )
 +
 +   CyberCafe Project (Peter Gergaly - , Zoltan Seidl -
 +                       and Mark Varadi - )
 +
 +   University Project (Attila Nagy - )
 +
 +   Digital City Project (Daniel Csanady)
 +
 +     _________________________________________________________________
 +
 +
 +   Contact Persons :
 +
 +   Tamas Bodoky -  tel.: +36-1-251-1653
 +
 +   Chris Swart -  tel.: +36-1-115-5151
 +
 +   Tamas Szalay -  tel.: +36-1-266-6426 x
 +                                                       3084
 +
 +   Laszlo Tolgyes -  tel.: +36-1-112-4949
 +
 +     _________________________________________________________________
 +
 +
 +   Mailing Adress : Chris Swart, Hungary, Budapest 1023 Torok u. 14.
 +
 +     _________________________________________________________________
 +
 +
 +   World Wide Web Homepage :
 +   http://www.abc.hu/cybercult/xs4all/xs4all.html
 +
 +     _________________________________________________________________
 +
 +
 +
 + ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 +                                              Owner of the list NARANCS-L
 +       Tamas Bodoky jr., MSc                  Editor of GepNarancs
 +                                              http://www.abc.hu/cybercult/
 + http://www.abc.hu/cybercult/bodoky.html
 +    e-mail: 
 +     voice: +36-28330600 / 202              Agricultural Biotechnology Center
 +                                            Institute of Molecular Genetics
 + DON'T PANIC !                              Godollo, p.o. box 411
 +  - The Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Galaxy   Hungary 2101
 +                                            http://www.abc.hu/
 + ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>(Wally Keeler) wrote: As I understand it, Magyars, Rom and Romanians born
>>within the borders of Romania are all natives to Romania. 

>(Dorin Taranul) wrote: Ok, they are, but BTW, who are the "Native Canadians"
>you keep talking about? Unless "native" refers to all people born in Canada,
>there is no such thing as "Native Canadian". 

When I use the phrase "natives to Romania" please not the use of lower case in
the use of the word native. In the context that I was using it, it meant those
born in Romania, all of whom are Romanian citizens, and presumably, with all
the rights inherent in such citizenship without prejudice or discrimination.

>Keep in mind that what we call American Indians are in actuality natives of
>Siberia, so the political correct term is not "Native Canadian" but "Siberian
>Canadian or American".

Not necessarily so. Although it is currently believed that all the aboriginal
peoples of the Americas crossed over on a land bridge connecting what we now
call Siberia and Alaska (I know of nothing to contrary) it was not called
Siberia or Alaska or America at that time. So the suggestion that Siberian
Canadian is validly politically correct, is in fact not so. If you want to GO
BACK IN TIME, why arbitrarily stop at the crossover point of Siberia/Alaska.
We can go back further and if I remember my high school lessons correctly,
humankind evolved in a valley in what we now call Kenya, so perhaps it would
be politically correct to call ourselves,... Jeez, ...uh,... what?

Although everyone born in Canada is "native to Canada" it does not follow that
they are Native Canadians. If you claim to certain people that there are no
Native Canadians in Canada, I think you may be inviting a very very close
haircut.

I take my cue from the Native Canadians. They are also called the First
Nations. The largest political organization which encompasses the vast
majority of Native Canadians is called the Assembly of First Nations. They
have and are exercising power in some very interesting and illuminating ways.
I like it. I hope they obtain more.

In the 1950's a law was rescinded which made it a criminal offence for native
people to hire a lawyer and launch claims against the government. It was only
in 1960 that they were given the right to vote in federal elections. Progress
is progress; in 1970 only 432 natives were enrolled in university; in 1993/94
there were 23,388. 

>At one point, not too long ago, you even claimed to be an "ethnic Canadian"
>?!?! What the hell is an "ethnic Canadian"?

I count myself as an ethnic Canadian because I have no patriotic loyalty to
any country or nation outside Canada. My parents were born in Canada. My
grandparents were born in Canada. My great grandparents were born in Canada.
I can go back some more . . . in Canada. How far back do you want me to go?
Where is my ancestry? Was it England? Scotland? Ireland, German? Wales?
Netherlands? I really don't have any idea currently. As far as I can go back
it is has been Canadian. I don't have split loyalties -- part of me loyal to
this country, and part of me loyal to another country. That is what the hell
is an ethnic Canadian. Canada does not define itself on the continuity of
blood lines, how purebred the stock is or is not. Canada is an idea which is
in possession of a lot of earth (second only to Russia). One of our Prime
Ministers said that "Europe suffers from too much history; Canada suffers from
too much geography."

I like immigrants when they come to Canada. The first generation has split
loyalties, but so what. They have Canadian citizenship as well as, in some
cases, citizenship in another country. This doesn't bother me -- because
Canada generally gets their children, all of them, all for itself. People here
have Ukrainian names, Scottish names, Italian names, Romanian names, but they
are Canadians -- it is often all they know. If these children of immigrants
retain various degrees of their particular culture, this is a net benefit for
Canada, because they are Canada's emmissaries to the world, especially
economically. 

>Now, if you're so confused about your own country, what makes you think you
>can have a valid opinion on somebody's else?

What confusion were you referring to? You may be confused about this, but I am
not. My opinions of someone else's country may well be valid or not, may be
half valid, perhaps insufficiently informed, any number of things. 

Nevertheless, Romania has solemnly placed its signature on several
international contracts, treaties, covenents, etc. stating that they will
undertake and fulfill particular obligations. In this regard, I have a say as
mach as you have a say in whether Canada fulfills its international
obligations. Indeed, Canada just got a good scolding on its treatment of the
children of some refugee immigrants by a UN organ.

-- 
Wally Keeler					Poetry
Creative Intelligence Agency			is
Peoples Republic of Poetry			Poetency

Hey!

What's up with your address?!

Adios, Marco de Moulin (Houten, Holland)

      ||      +------------------+----------- - - - -  -   -     -+     ||
  ___/||\___  |  HAPPINEESS IS   |  E-MAIL  :        | ___/||\___
  ""|"||"|""  | GOOD HEALTH AND  +--------------------------------+ ""|"||"|""
    |_||_|    |  A BAD MEMORY    |  HTTP://HUIZEN.DDS.NL/~MOULIN  |   |_||_|
     /--\     +--    -   -  -  - - - - ---------------------------+    /--\

In article >,
CLARY Olivier > wrote:
>In article >  (
Janos Szamosfalvi) writes:
>>CLARY Olivier ) wrote:
>>: [...] those very wide groupings of native American language families
>>: are based on too few words [...] probably the former groupings based
>>: on blood etc helped to select this "interesting" result, [...]
>>No.  The study of their languages was independent and preceeded the blood 
>>and DNA type testing.
>
>About this, too, let's ask sci.lang ! (previously: v-like sound for water)

Not sure exactly what you're asking, but ...

"Lumping" hypotheses about New World languages have been around a lot
longer than DNA and other genetic studies.  Probably what is being
referred to here is Joseph Greenberg's hypothesis of 3 macro-families
for the New World.  This was definitely arrived at independently
of any physical anthropological evidence, though Greenberg and his
supporters are very happy to cite the physical evidence in support of
their claims.

But, as is C. Olivier points out (if I've got the attributions
straight), the linguistic evidence for Greenberg's hypothesis is
very thin.  The 3-migration idea is very likely right, but IMO the
physical and archeological evidence are distinctly stronger than
the linguistic.

Scott DeLancey			
Department of Linguistics
University of Oregon
Eugene, OR 97403, USA

In article >,
Wally Keeler > wrote:
>First Interim Report of the CodreAnus Commission on the Causes and
>Manifestations of Divergent Think Procedure Concerning Certain Actions of the
>Rights Of Man Association (R.O.M.A.)

Wally,
now I know what you meant by saying that you, too, can dish it out if
you had to.  ... and boy! -- can you turn a phrase (or two)!
"CodreAnus"???  Darn, this would even be funny if one did not visualize
all the red faces (in s.c.r) upon reading it.  But this is what happens
when people can't appreciate poetry in action. ;-) 

Joe

Here is the beta (somewhat raw ;-)) version, which basically is a total 
rewrite; after some relatively minor formatting changes, further checking 
etc. I am going to submit this to replace the old one that's still in the 
official Usenet archives. Please let me know how do you like it! Also, 
there appear to be lots of very old copies in some corners of the net - 
those need to be ignored (better yet discarded) because the outdated info 
just confuses many people.

 Zoli  (note my old full address @bcuxs2 is retired)
"For my assured failures and derelictions, I ask pardon beforehand of my
betters and my equals in my calling." - Rudyard Kipling

Last-modified: 1995/06/18
Version: 1.00.b0

               TABLE OF CONTENTS

1.      News and discussion groups in English
1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute
1.2  News from Central Europe Today
1.3  The Hungary Report
1.4  Hungary Online
1.5  Mozaik
1.6  On USENET
1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list at George Washington University
1.8  , a list for Hungarian-Americans


2.      News and discussion groups in Hungarian
2.1  HIX
2.2  Other discussion groups


3.      Interactive services
3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web
3.2  Gopher and other interactive services


4.      The Net in Hungary
4.1  BITNET/HUEARN
4.2  HUNGARNET
4.3  FidoNet
4.4  Finding out somebody's email address


5.      Odds and ends
5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary
5.2  Conventions for coding Hungarian accents
5.3  Information sources about the rest of Central and Eastern Europe

6.      Contributors to this FAQ

7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >


> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Subject: 1.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN ENGLISH

 Note: commercial networks -- such as CompuServe or AOL -- may have
their own in-house forums relating to Eastern and Central Europe. Be
aware that those are only open to the subscribers of the particular
service, unlike the discussion groups accessible by anyone via the
Internet and Usenet! This file -- the hungarian-faq -- is primarily
concerned with resources freely available netwide.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.1  News from the Open Media Research Institute

 The Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest is available via
electronic mail, at no charge. The Digest covers all of the former
Soviet Union, East-Central and Southeastern Europe and is delivered in
two parts, each roughly 15 kByte in size, Monday through Friday (except
Czech holidays).

 You can subscribe by sending <mailto:>.
In the body of the message, type "SUBSCRIBE OMRI-L Yourfirstname
Yourlastname" (leave out the quotation marks and be sure to substitute
your own name where shown).

 You can get reposts of just the items related to Hungary by
subscribing to Mozaik. See section 1.5.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.2  News from Central Europe Today

 Central Europe Today On-Line is a free daily news service covering the
important events and business news in the region. To subscribe, send
the word SUBSCRIBE <mailto:>. For
more detailed information, send a blank email message 
<mailto:>.

Again, these exceed Hungary in scope, but you can get excerpts pertaining 
to Hungary in Mozaik (see 1.4).

------------------------------

Subject: 1.3  The Hungary Report

 The Hungary Report is a free weekly English-language online update of
news and analysis direct from Budapest each Sunday. The Report consists
of briefs, one feature story and an expert political opinion column.
The briefs cover the most important and interesting developments in
Hungary each week, while the feature stories address variously
politics, business, economics, arts and leisure. The weekly political
column, Parliament Watch, is written by Tibor Vidos, director of the
Budapest office of GJW, a British political lobbying and consulting
firm. To subscribe, send
<mailto:> containing (in the body
of the message, not in the headers) the single word "subscribe" (no
quotes).  Or send the word "info" to the same address for further
information.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.4  Hungary Online

 This discussion list is a "kind of Internet supplement" to the column
of the same title in Budapest Business Journal; to subscribe, send the
word "subscribe" <mailto:> (you'll get help
from its Majordomo server, if needed).

------------------------------

Subject: 1.5  MOZAIK

 This is actually one of the services of HIX, meaning there's a slight bit
of Hungarian mixed in (the posts themselves are mostly in English, but
the server speaks Hunglish ;-)). Mozaik brings you, among other things,
reposts of those news items (originating from OMRI, CET and other
sources) that bear directly on Hungary. You can subscribe by sending a
blank email message to <mailto:> and unsubscribe by
sending one to <mailto:>. See section 3 about
searching the HIX archives.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.6  On USENET

 The Hungarian newsgroup in the worldwide hierarchy is
<news:soc.culture.magyar>.  It's mostly in English, sometimes
bilingual, and occasionally Hungarian only.

Since May 1995 Hungary has its own netnews hierachy, with the following
groups created so far (hun.lists.* are email gateways):
        <news:hun.test>
        <news:hun.news>
        <news:hun.piac>
        <news:hun.comp>
        <news:hun.general>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.forum>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.hunet>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.moka>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.otthonka>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.szalon>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.tipp>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.vita>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.otthon>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.guru>
                <news:hun.lists.hix.kornyesz>
                <news:hun.lists.katalist>

 If you can connect to a remote news server (typically by setting the
NNTPSERVER variable under Unix), then you can get hun.* directly from
news.sztaki.hu or news.iif.hu (the former has been more stable
lately).  Fetching articles is much faster from a local source - ask
you system administrator if they can get a feed! In the USA the first
provider offering the hierarchy seems to be AltNet,
<mailto:> to find out about that.

 There are Hungarian local newsgroups available through
<telnet://ludens.elte.hu>, login with username GUEST (no password), and
enter NEWS to start the newsreader (you can use the VMS online help to
learn about it).  The guest account is set up for accessing
<news:elte.diaklap> (students' journal at Eotvos U.), but other
newsgroups are available as well. (But please be considerate to the
strained network resources of Hungarian sites - from abroad for
non-local news use other providers.) For ELTE-specific questions
contact <mailto:>.  This server is also accessible
via remote NNTP like the two mentioned above, but is often much slower
than those.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.7  'Hungary', the LISTSERV list at George Washington University

  is a discussion group providing rapid communication
among those with interests in Hungarian issues. Subscribe by 
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY Yourfirstname Lastname.  Once you
have subscribed, any messages which you want to send to the group
should be sent to the group address, <mailto:>.
(This pattern of two addresses is standard: you turn your mail off and
on at the "listserv" address, and you send mail to the listname
address.  For example, to  unsubscribe, send the server the message
SIGNOFF HUNGARY.  You can temporarily turn off you mail by sending
listserv the message SET HUNGARY NOMAIL.  SET HUNGARY MAIL turns mail
back on.) By default the listserv sends out messages as they arrive,
maybe several ones on busier days. If you prefer daily digest format,
you can issue the command SET HUNGARY DIGESTS (again by sending it to
the LISTSERV address); alternatively you can subscribe to HUNGARY via
HIX as mentioned in 2.1, and receive the same format as the other lists
by HIX. LISTSERV has many useful features, most notably database search
on the list archives - to learn more about it, send commands like SEND
HELP, SEND HELP DATABASE.

 Note that the form of addressing LISTSERV lists such as Hungary may
depend a great deal on your local network configuration and mailer
software.  For BITNET mailers you need GWUVM only; the local gatewaying
to BITNET may be BITNET% for VAXMail installations and
 at other places. Ask your local network
administrator first if you're experiencing problems.

------------------------------

Subject: 1.8  , a list for Hungarian-Americans

 <mailto:> is a group providing rapid communication
mainly among those living in the USA with interests in Hungarian
issues (it has been created to serve the community mainly at the
University of Maryland and in its vicinity). Subscribe by
<mailto:> using no subject and a message
consisting only of SUBSCRIBE HUNGARY . (Notice that this is distinct
from the older LISTSERV list mentioned in 1.7 that has a broader focus
- 'the HUNGARY list' ususally refers to that latter one!)

------------------------------

Subject: 2.  NEWS AND DISCUSSION GROUPS IN HUNGARIAN


------------------------------

Subject: 2.1  HIX

 HIX, or Hollosi Information eXchange, is a non-profit formation run
and supported by several individuals and organizations. Its services,
almost exclusively in Hungarian, change frequently, so it is best to
obtain an up-to-date help file by sending a blank email message to
<mailto:>. Here's a list of what it currently offers in
email digest format:

  HIR      -- 'Hirmondo', current newspaper survey, edited in Budapest
  NARANCS  -- The Internet edition of 'Magyar Narancs'
  KEP      -- videotext news from Hungarian Television's Kepujsag
  SZALON   -- moderated political discussion forum
  FORUM    -- unmoderated political discussion forum
  TIPP     -- politics-free questions, tips etc.
  HUNGARY  -- the daily digest of the Hungary listserv (see 1.7)
  GURU     -- computer-related questions
  RANDI    -- personals; anonymous submissions possible
  VITA     -- non-political discussion forum
  OTTHON   -- issues around the home
  MOKA     -- jokes, humor (Hungarian and other)
  MOZAIK   -- semi-regular bits of news and other info, a good part in  
              English, crossposts from the OMRI list, VoA gopher, CET and
              other sources

 To subscribe (unsubscribe) to a particular email-journal, send email
to  ) where NAME is one of the
above.

 The postings for the HIX discussion lists are sent out daily in
digested form. You can send your own submission to ,
whatever NAME is (provided it's actually a discussion list).

 The volume for some of these lists is becoming rather high,
e.g. TIPP often digests dozens of messages in hundreds of lines daily!
You ought to try targeting your audience properly in order to find
those who'd help with your questions; also keep in mind that readers
often answer to the list rather than the individual even when personal
reply is requested, so if you ask something it's a good idea to
subscribe also (even though technically it's not required) instead of
just addressing a list as a non-subscriber. A reminder to those who
reply to a post: always remember that list messages get sent to several
hundred readers, so consider personal email if the subject is not of
general interest! If you answer through a list it's courteous to send a
personal copy (Cc: with most mailers) as well - this may reach the
addressee considerably earlier than the post distributed through the
list.

 The HIX server can also send out archived files, see the SENDDOC
function in its description. In case you have any problems or questions
on the HIX services, please read through the automatic help response
first. If you need human intervention you can reach
<mailto:> - but keep in mind that list managers have
to do plenty other than answering things already laid out in the Fine
Manual.

 You can also view the output of HIX interactively. See section 3.

------------------------------

Subject: 2.2  Other discussion groups in Hungarian

 A number of email lists are available from servers located in Hungary,
for directory see <gopher://HUEARN.sztaki.hu/>. There are many college
publications available online as well, check out the links from the HU
homepage (see below).

------------------------------

Subject: 3. INTERACTIVE SERVICES

 If you are using Hungarian interactive services from abroad (or vice
versa): please note that interactive Internet connections like gopher
may be very slow, even timing out during peak hours - try times of
lower network load when the response time is usually reasonable.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.1  What's available on the World Wide Web

 The Hungarian Home Page is at
<http://www.fsz.bme.hu/hungary/homepage.html>; with links to the
registered Hungarian www servers, including

 - the Prime Minister's Office:  <http://www.meh.hu>;

 - a weather forecast page (this is updated daily, and includes weather
forecasts, meteorological maps, and METEOSAT satellite images; this page is
in Hungarian)

 - home pages of Hungarian cities (currently Budapest, Debrecen, Miskolc,
Pecs, Szeged), and of educational and other institutions by location

 - a comprehensive list of Hungarian telnet services (e.g. library 
databases), gopher and ftp sites (3.2). The content of almost all the 
Hungarian FTP sites is indexed and can be searched.

 HIX has a WWW server in the USA: the URL is <http://hix.mit.edu>;.
Besides back issues of its email journals, and a plethora of other
files in Hungarian and English, it offers an on-line English-Hungarian,
Hungarian-English dictionary, and various home pages and pointers to
other sources.

 The Open Media Research Institute has a WWW server, available at
<http://www.omri.cz/>;.  Available at this Web site are all back issues
of the Daily Digest, tables of contents for Transition, OMRI's
bi-weekly analytical journal, and information about OMRI's activities
and staff.

 The World Wide Web server of Central Europe Today is at the URL
<http://www.eunet.cz>;.

 Find back issues of the Hungary Report on the World Wide Web at 
<http://www.yak.net/hungary-report/>;.

  A new server <http://www.hungary.com/hudir/>; catalogize
hierarchically the growing number of Hungarian Internet info
sources.  There is a similar collection at
<http://www.glue.umd.edu/~gotthard/hir.html>;.

------------------------------

Subject: 3.2  Gopher and other interactive services

 HIX has a gopher in the States: hix.mit.edu. Its services form just a 
subset of what it offers as a WWW site. RaDir is sometimes useful for 
finding email-addresses, old or new friends on the Net. See also Section 
4.4.

 HIX has a gopher in Hungary as well: hix.elte.hu. Check also
<gopher://gopher.elte.hu> and <gopher://gopher.sztaki.hu>. Note that
gopher is essentially text-based (thus less satisfying that the Web)
but often faster (therefore less frustrating).

 CET's gopher is called <gopher://gopher.eunet.cz>.

 HIX documents from the archives of hix.mit.edu are available via the (Unix)
'finger' protocol. Try 'finger ' to see how it works.
This may be the easiest and fastest access from some sites.


------------------------------

Subject: 4. THE NET IN HUNGARY

 Overview: historically, ELLA was the first home-grown X.25
email-system in Hungary. It survives till this very day. EARN was
next, with its BITNET-like infrastructure (4.1). Full Internet
connectivity is provided by HUNGARNET (see 4.2), which really comprises
all academic, research and public non-profit sites.

 Here's a partial list of its domain names:

bme.hu          Technical University of Budapest
sztaki.hu       Computer and Automation Research Institute, Budapest 
elte.hu         Roland Eotvos University of Sciences, Budapest
bke.hu          Budapest University of Economic Sciences
sote.hu         Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
abc.hu          Agricultural Biotechnology Center, Godollo 
gau.hu          Godollo Agricultural University, Godollo
klte.hu         Kossuth Lajos University of Sciences, Debrecen
jpte.hu         Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
u-szeged.hu     Members of the Szeged University Association
bgytf.hu        Gyorgy Bessenyei Teachers Training College
uni-miskolc.hu  University of Miskolc
kfki.hu         Central research Inst. of Physics, Budapest 
vein.hu         University of Veszprem, Veszprem
bdtf.hu         Berzsenyi College, Szombathely
szif.hu         Szechenyi Istvan College, Gyor
blki.hu         Balaton Limnological Research Institute of Hung. Acad. of
Science

A schematic map of its topology ('HBONE'):

EBONE    EMPB                          EMPB   EBONE

  ^       ^                             ^       ^
  |       |                             |       |
  |       |   Microwave center ======= IIF Center ------- Miskolci Egyetem
  |       |      Budapest            /   Budapest            Miskolc
  |       |    //  ||    \\         /   //   |
  |       |   //   ||     MTA-KFKI /   //    L--------------- BGYTF
  |       |  //   MBK     Budapest    //     |             Nyiregyhaza
  |       | //   Godollo             //      |
  |      BME              MTA-SzTAKI//       L--------------- KLTE
  |    Budapest ########## Budapest          |              Debrecen
  |      ***                                 |
  |      ***                                 L--------------- GAMF
  L------BKE                                 |              Kecskemet
       Budapest                              |
          #    \                             L---------- Veszpremi Egyetem
          #     \                            |              Veszprem
         ELTE    \                           |
       Budapest   JATE                       L--------------- JPTE
                 Szeged                                       Pecs

 LEGEND

 ***  100 Mbps FDDI
  #    10 Mbps optical cable (Ethernet)
  =     2 Mbps microwave
  |    64 kbps leased line (that's 0.064 Mbps)

Source: HUNGARNET/NIIF (URL <http://www.iif.hu/hungarnet.html>;)

 FidoNet is described in section 4.3, and commercial networks/email/Internet
Providers demand a separate document ('commercial.FAQ'), also see 
<http://www.sztaki.hu/providers/>;.

------------------------------

Subject: 4.1  BITNET/HUEARN

 What follows is a listing of all EARN nodes in Hungary, with contact info.
This information is also available on the following gopher:
         <gopher://cc1.kuleuven.ac.be:70/11/nodeearn>.

HUBIIF11 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                      
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest     
      Internet address : hubiif11.sztaki.hu                   
      User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBIIF61 IIF Department Budapest, Hungary                                    
      IIF;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo 18-22;1132 Budapest     
      Internet address : mars.iif.hu                          
      User Info: Istvan ;+36 1 1665644       
      Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBME11  Technical University of Budapest
     Technical University;of Budapest;Muegyetem rkp 9. R. ep;H-1111
     Budapest, Hungary           
     Internet address : atlantis.bme.hu                      
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 4632422               
     Fax : +36 1 1665711             

HUBME51  Technical University of Budapest                                  
     Technical University;Muegytem Rakpart 9;H-1111 Budapest               
     Internet address : bmeik.eik.bme.hu                     
     User Info: Laszlo ;+36 1 1812172                 
     Phone : +36 1 1812172            ; Fax : +36 1 1166711             

HUBPSZ12 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                  
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy o Sciences;Victor Hugo
     18-22;1132 Budapest  
     Internet address : hubpsz12.sztaki.hu                   ;
     User Info: Sandor ;+36 1 1497984                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUBPSZ61 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo
     18-22;1132 Budapest 
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             

HUBPSZ62 Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary                
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Lagymanyosi
     ut 11;1111 Budapest 
     Net Operator: Sandor ;+36 1 1497986             
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUEARN   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary               
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo
     18-22;1132 Budapest 
     Internet address : huearn.sztaki.hu                     ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 2698286                   
     Phone : +36 1 2698283            ; Fax : +36 1 2698288             

HUECO    University of Economic Sciences Budapest, Hungary                 
     University of Economic Sci;Computer Center;Kinizsi u 1-7;1092 Budapest
     Internet address : ursus.bke.hu                         ;
     User Info: Robert ;+36 1 1175224                    
     Phone : +36 1 1181317            ; Fax : +36 1 1175224             

HUELLA   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary           
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo
     18-22;1132 Budapest 
     Node admin: Gizella ;+36 1 1497986                
     Phone : +36 1 1497984            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGBOX   Computer and Automation Institute Budapest, Hungary            
     Computer and Automation Inst;Hungarian Academy of Sciences;Victor Hugo
     18-22;1132 Budapest 
     Internet address : hugbox.sztaki.hu                    ;
     User Info: Miklos ;+36 1 1497532                
     Phone : +36 1 1497532            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866             

HUGIRK51 University of Agriculture Sciences
     University of Agriculture;Pater Karoly ut 1;H-2103 Godollo
     Internet address : vax.gau.hu                           ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 28 30200 -1015              
     Phone : +36 28 30200 -1015       ; Fax : +36 28 20804              

HUKLTEDR Kossuth Lajos University Debrecen, Hungary                       
     Internet address : dragon.klte.hu                       ;
     User Info: Robert                           

HUKLTE51 Kossuth Lajos University, Debrecen                                 
     Kossuth Lajos University;Egyetem Ter 1; PF. 58;H-4010 Debrecen        
     Internet address : huni7.cic.klte.hu                    ;
     User Info: Zoltan ;+36 52 18800                      
     Phone : +36 52 18800             ; Fax : +36 52 16783              

HUSOTE51 University of Medical Science Budapest, Hungary                   
     University of Medical Science;SOTE;Ulloi u. 26.;1085 Budapest         
     Internet address : janus.sote.hu                        ;
     User Info: Gabor ;+36 1 1141705                 
     Phone : +36 1 1141705            ; Fax : +36 1 1297866

HUSZEG11 Jozsef Attila University, Szeged, Hungary                         
     Jozsef Attila University;Computer Centre;Arpad ter 2.;H-6720
     Szeged;Hungary                
     User Info: Ferenc ;+36 62 321022
     Miklos ;+36  
     Phone : +36 62 321022            ; Fax : +36 62 322227             

------------------------------

Subject: 4.2  HUNGARIAN ACADEMIC AND RESEARCH NETWORK (HUNGARNET)

Organisational Structure: 
 HUNGARNET is an association and also the computer network of Hungarian
institutes of higher education, research and development, libraries and
other public collections. HUNGARNET funding comes from the R&D
Information Infrastructure Program (IIF) sponsored by the Hungarian
Academy of Science, the National Committee of Technological
Development, the Ministry for Culture and Education and the National
Science Foundation. About 500 organizations have access to HUNGARNET
services. HUNGARNET as an association represents Hungary in
international networking organizations (e.g. TERENA).

Generic Services:
 HUNGARNET provides access to the Internet and several other national
network services over leased lines and the public packet switched data
network. Lot of different services (e.g. gopher, ftp, WWW, data bases)
provided by member organizations are available on the net. Centrally
supported and coordinated services are:
 - email (internet SMPT, EARN BSMTP, OSI X.400, UUCP, XXX ELLA) - email
 gateways between the different email systems above - distribution
 services (LISTSERV, news) - information services (ftp, gopher, WWW
 servers, data bases) - directory services (X.500) - individual
 accounts and login

External Connectivity:  
 HUNGARNET is subscriber to EBONE and EMPB/EuropaNET as well. There are
two 64 kbps leased lines to EBONE (Vienna EBS). These two lines should
be upgraded to a single 256 kbps line in the near future.  HUNGARNET
uses two 64 kbps interfaces on the EMPB/EuropaNET node in Budapest as
well. These two interfaces should also be upgraded to a single 256 kbps
interface very soon.

Internal Connectivity: 
 Internal connectivity of HUNGARNET is based partly on the public X.25
service of the Hungarian PTT and partly on the community's private IP
backbone network (HBONE). The kernel of the HBONE infrastructure is in
Budapest, where several important organizations are connected in
different ways (64-256 kbps leased lines, 1-2 Mbps microwave links, 10
Mbps optical Ethernet, 100 Mbps FDDI). Several cities (regional
centers) in the country are also connected to the network via 64 kbps
leased lines (Miskolc, Nyiregyhaza, Debrecen, Kecskemet, Szeged, Pecs,
Veszprem) and 2 Mbps microwave (Godollo). Now there are about 50
organizations directly connected to the backbone and about 50 others
using IP over X.25. The number of the registered, connected hosts is
about ten thousand. There is an ongoing development, new regional
centers (Kaposvar, Keszthely, Szombathely, Sopron, Gyor) and several
organizations in Budapest will be connected subsequently.  Many users
do not have IP connectivity yet but are connected to the public X.25
network. There are several services (e.g. individual login, mail,
gopher, news) that are open for traditional XXX/X.25 access.

Contact Persons:
Miklos NAGY <mailto:> - head of the HUNGARNET/IIF 
					coordination office
Laszlo CSABA <mailto:> - HUNGARNET/IIF technical director
Balazs MARTOS <mailto:> - HBONE project manager
Nandor HORVATH <mailto:> - Local Internet Registry, 
				.hu top level domain contact
IP address and domain administration: > 
Network management: >

------------------------------

Subject: 4.3  FidoNet

 FidoNet connects through sztaki.hu, as indicated above.

 There are three FidoNet nodes: Budapest NET (2:371/0); West Hungary Net
(2:372/0); and Tisza NET (2:370/0). If you want to write on the
FidoNet, chances are you already know how. *PLEASE* find out what you
are about to do instead of experimenting with the Hungarian net - don't
add to the problems for the folks in Hungary having to deal with the
underdeveloped phone system and outrageous international tolls ;-<. For
further information I post a Fido-sheet separately from this FAQ, where
there are also telephone numbers and further addresses, but again: try
to verify that you are mailing to a valid address (the BBS situation
may have changed since the copy you are reading got updated - look for
current FIDO listing on the net, or better yet contact the person you
want to reach by other means first)!. If you can send Internet email
and have the FidoNet address, you can write to it by transforming it to
appropriate .FIDONET.ORG format.

 Fidonet mail works with Hungarian BBS's but you have to know
whom to reach. I will attempt to maintain a separate Fido posting to
Usenet; please try to make sure you email to a valid address and in
particular avoid using outdated sources on Hungarian BBS's (otherwise
your misdirected trial will burden the Hungarian network coordinator!).

------------------------------

Subject: 4.4  Finding out somebody's email-address in Hungary

 The bigger academic domains have on-line directories (CSO phonebooks):

Technical University, Budapest Budapest University of Economic Sciences*
      <gopher://URSUS.BKE.HU:71/11/kozgaz/telefon>
(*under construction)

Semmelweis University of Medical Sciences, Budapest
      <gopher://xenia.sote.hu:105/2>

Central Research Inst. of Physics, Budapest
      <gopher://sunserv.kfki.hu:105/2>

Members of the Szeged University Association
      <gopher://sol.cc.u-szeged.hu:105/2>

Janus Pannonius University of Sciences, Pecs
      <gopher://ipiux.jpte.hu:1051/2>

University of Veszprem
      <gopher://miat0.vein.hu:105/2>

 ELLA also has an on-line directory: <telnet://hugbox.sztaki.hu:203>
(i.e. address a special port). Note that the opening screen uses
special characters for the accented letters but the data records have
combinations of vowel plus ',: or " instead (i.e. searching for
hollo'si would retrieve a record, but hollosi won't)!

 If the person has registered him/herself with the RaDir database of
HIX, you might try the following:

 - by email: send a blank message <mailto:>. You'll
receive, in several chunks, the entire database of users, their
electronic and snail-mail addresses, etc. You'll need a decent editor
to search what you're looking for.

 - by <gopher://hix.elte.hu> (or <gopher://hix.mit.edu>, outside
Hungary; the same service is offered by <http://hix.mit.edu>; on the
World Wide Web). Under RaDir, you'll find the entire database
cross-indexed by search keys.

 Note, however, that most parts of RaDir are badly out of date.

 If you have some idea what institution to check at, you may find an
online directory service -- many are available, and could be reached
through the Hungarian gophers (or WWW sites) mentioned in section 3.
Try contacting the (electronic) postmaster, usually
, or using 'finger' to inquire about users.

 As a last resort, send in your query to a discussion group. Readers of
Usenet's soc.culture.magyar, Bitnet's HUNGARY discussion list (section 
1.7), or some HIX-list (see 2.1) may be able to help.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.  ODDS AND ENDS

------------------------------

Subject: 5.1  Traveling with a computer in Hungary

 The electricity is 220 V, 50 Hz. The frequency, in fact, fluctuates a
lot, but it doesn't cause any problem when operating computer devices.
(Don't trust too much your plug-in clock radios though.) If you are
from any country running on 110 V or around, due to complications in
voltage conversion, a battery driven laptop or notebook is your best
bet. However, if you decide to take your desktop system, printer, etc.,
you  have a good chance that the device can also be operated on 220 V.
Check it first before you go through unnecessary trouble. If not, you
have to apply 220 V to 110 V AC converters (you might need more than
one; check the power ratings of your devices & converters). WARNING!
Your converters should be designed for *electronic/motorized devices*.
Refuse any converter for *heating appliances* even if its power rating
is much higher! These converters are not real transformers, and can
cause major damages to your electronic devices.

 Also make sure you are able to connect to the Hungarian grounded power
outlet, because that's what's recommended for your appliances.
Therefore you should try to find grounded plug adapters and/or voltage
converters.  Connecting to ungrounded outlets causes possibly no harm,
but for your own & your devices' safety grounded connections should be
preferred.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2  Conventions & standards for coding Hungarian accents

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.0 Introduction & section overview  

 During the evolution of teletypes and computers, two character tables
survived, acquiring major importance in later computer systems. One is
EBCDIC, primarily used in ancient IBM mainframes. The other one, ASCII,
can be considered today's ubiquitous standard in computing worldwide.
The rest of this section, therefore, pays attention to ASCII code, very
unfairly ignoring EBCDIC, since none of the accent conversion programs
support neither this code table nor the CMS environment.

 Since the language of computing has been English from the beginning,
the original ASCII table was limited to the characters used in
English: letters of the Latin alphabet, a few punctuation marks and
some other special symbols. Since the number of all these characters,
plus the unprintable "control" characters (located in the first 32
positions of the ASCII table, responsible for different control
functions) doesn't exceed 128, the real 'brilliant' idea of
representing the ASCII table in 7 bits spread like wild fire all over
the computer world. No wonder, that most of the Internet mailers and
Usenet hubs are also set up to forward documents in 7-bit ASCII only.
(Read the rest of the section carefully to learn how to overcome these
problems.) As computing and word processing started to rise up in the
rest of the world, there was an increasing demand to represent these
national characters as well. (A good example is Hungarian. The extra
consonants [nonexistent in English] are formed by merely juxtaposing 2
(or 3 in case of dzs) regular Latin characters; so there is no problem
here.  However, the special vowels of the language are denoted by
applying different accents on the Latin 'base-vowel', introducing new
characters, the so called accented vowels.) It's an obvious idea to
place these national characters and other fancy symbols utilizing codes
128 to 255, still remaining within the byte limit. Different character
sets have been created by defining purpose- or language-specific
characters for the upper half of the table, while keeping the 7-bit
ASCII codes unchanged. (Note:  Some character sets also re-use codes
between 0 and 31, the domain of ASCII control characters, keeping some,
or none of them. Using these codes, however, is pretty difficult,
device- and implementation-dependent, etc.  Therefore it wouldn't be
wise to put accented characters here, but fortunately none of the sets
listed below did it actually.) Hopefully Unicode will ultimately stop
this confusion, but until then there's a long long way to go.

At this point let's clarify the terminology:

.. ASCII (also 7-bit or plain ASCII) data:
Usually text (but not necessarily, see 5.2.5.1.), containing only 7-bit
ASCII characters, including the control ones.
.. 8-bit (extended) ASCII data:
Text containing the uniform 7-bit ASCII characters, plus special characters 
(with code greater than 127) according to one of the 8-bit character sets. 
.. Binary data:
Non-text data (executables, pictures, etc.) containing any 8-bit value.

 The different kludges accepted by Internet users to denote accented
vowels in 7-bit ASCII are described in 5.2.1. The most important
extended ASCII character sets are introduced in 5.2.2. 5.2.3 shows the
accented character representations used by high-level formatting
languages. The correct ways of transferring files among word processor
[on the Net] are detailed in 5.2.4. If the data to be transferred is
not 7-bit ASCII, 5.2.5 tells you what to do. Last, but not least, 5.2.6
introduces all the programs in the HIX archives that address the
problem of conversion between the various types of accent
representation.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.1 House rules for plain (7-bit) ASCII

 If you are limited to the use of 7-bit ASCII, you have essentially the
following choices to deal with the accented characters:

5.2.1.0 No accent marks at all

 Simple and sure-fire. In fact, the most common 'solution'.

5.2.1.1 The '~" coding (also called "marking notation" or "Babai-code")
        [Sometimes nicknamed as _repu~lo"_.]

 Here's a sample:

         O~t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu~nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu~ko~rfu'ro'ge'p
         O~t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru~lt i'ro't nyu'z

or, in the alternative ':" _repu:lo"_ format:

         O:t hu"to"ha'zbo'l ke'rtu:nk szi'nhu'st
         a'rvi'ztu"ro" tu:ko:rfu'ro'ge'p
         O:t sze'p szu"zla'ny o"ru:lt i'ro't nyu'z

 Quite readable, though a bit tricky to disambiguate mechanically:
remember, the " or : or ' may also serve as punctuation marks. (This
problem can be handled using Maxent's escaping capabilities, see
5.2.6.6.)

Warning! Don't get confused: in TeX (see 5.2.3.1) " denotes umlaut!

5.2.1.2 The 123 coding (also "numerical notation" or "Pro1sze1ky-code")

 Here's the same text:

         O2t hu3to3ha1zbo1l ke1rtu2nk szi1nhu1st
         a1rvi1ztu3ro3 tu2ko2rfu1ro1ge1p
         O2t sze1p szu3zla1ny o3ru2lt i1ro1t nyu1z

 The only one that's both short and unambiguous, though it takes some
getting used to. 1 stands for the stroke, 2 for the short umlaut, 3 for
the 'Hungarian' or long umlaut (double acute). Very easily converted to
other formats. (Also can be ambiguous, though with much smaller
probability. E.g. U2, CO2, , etc.)

5.2.1.3 Telegraphic style. For example,

         Oet huetoehaazbool keertuenk sziinhuust
         aarviiztueroe tuekoerfuuroogeep
         Oet szeep szuezlaany oeruelt iiroot nyuuz

 Avoid it like the plague because

1. It's ambiguous. (Think of Goethe, Oetker, Eoersi, Csooori, poeen.) 
2. Coding of o" & u" (o3 & u3) is not consistent:
   u3 = ue (fallback to u2), uue, uee, ueue
3. Absolutely not a pleasure to read.



------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.2 Fancy 8-bit character sets (extended ASCII)

 The following rollcall lists the most important character sets
supported by the majority of hardware and software, including the
accent conversion programs. The available Hungarian accented characters
are detailed for each set.

Notes: 

 Henceforth when referring to an accented character, the numerical
(Pro1sze1ki) notation will be used to maintain clarity.


5.2.2.1 PC-codepages

(*) PC-437: Hardware

 The basic hardware character set of PC-compatible systems. Since it
was supposed to contain many symbols (line drawing characters, some
Greek letters, etc.), and be general, it's pretty poor in terms of
accented characters. Missing Hungarian vowels: o3, u3 [substitute them
with o^ & u^], A1 [substitute it with A-circle], I1, O1, O3, U1, U3.

(*) CWI recommendation for Hungarian accents:

A standard initiative to replace the many house rules of character code as-
signment for accents unavailable in PC-437. Codes are assigned as follows:

o3->147 [o^], u3->150 [u^], A1->143, I1->141 [i`] or 140 [I^],
O1->149 [o`], O3->167, U1->151 [u`], U3->153 [y~]

(*) PC-850: Multilingual

Contains all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.
Note: ? means o, u, O or U.

(*) PC-852: Latin 2

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.

(*) PC-860: Portuguese
(*) PC-863: Canadian-French
(*) PC-865: Nordic

These sets miss various Hungarian accents, esp. in upper case. Using them 
for a Hungarian text makes absolutely no sense.


5.2.2.2 ISO character sets

 These character sets are specified by ISO standards. As far as ALL
(not only Hungarian) accented vowels concerned, ISO 8859/1, 2 & 9 is
equivalent to Windows Latin 1, 2 & 5 respectively.

(*) ISO 8859/1:
(*) ISO 8859/3:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

(*) ISO 8859/2:

Contains all the accented vowels. Try to use this if available.


5.2.2.3 Others

The following character sets are supported by various laser printers. 
Roman-8 bears special importance as being the default character set of many 
printers.

(*) Ventura International & Roman-8:
(*) MC Text:

Contain all the accented vowels but ?3. Substitute them with ?^.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.3 Text formatting languages

 The text formatting languages listed below, beyond their powerful text
formatting capabilities, also include the specification of [almost] all
the accented characters. These languages give an alternative way of
dealing with accents in 7-bit ASCII, especially if the software that
can display, print or convert these representations is available.
[Unlike notations in 5.2.1, the "raw" files of these languages are not
intended to be read by ordinary users.]

5.2.3.1 [La]TeX. 

Invented by D. E. Knuth, TeX (pronounce as [tech]; 'X' denotes the Greek
letter 'chi'), and the macro collection based on it, LaTeX, are today's
most popular text formatting languages for document creation and DTP.

To continue with the same example,

 \"{O}t h\H{u}t\H{o}h\'{a}zb\'{o}l k\'{e}rt\"{u}nk sz\'{\i}nh\'{u}st

 \'{a}rv\'{\i}zt\H{u}r\H{o} t\"{u}k\"{o}rf\'{u}r\'{o}g\'{e}p

 \"{O}t sz\'{e}p sz\H{u}zl\'{a}ny \H{o}r\"{u}lt \'{i}r\'{o}t ny\'{u}z

 This is meant to be printed with TeX or previewed as a dvi file.
 Wholly unambiguous, can be automatically converted to/from several
other formats (see 5.2.6). Also check the babel system for LaTeX with
the Hungarian specific option, available from FTP sites kth.se or
goya.dit.upm.es.

5.2.3.2 HTML (HyperText Markup Language)

 Unfortunately, the HTML-2 standard still does not contain notation for
Hungarumlaut (long umlaut, double acute). We use tilde or circumflex
instead. The preferred notation is o with tilde õ and u with
circumflex û. In the example above,

   Öt hûtõházból kértünk
   színhúst

   árvíztûrõ
   tükörfúrógép

   Öt szép szûzlány õrült
   írót nyúz

5.2.3.3 RTF (Rich Text Format)

This standard is widespread among Microsoft word processors. For non-ASCII 
characters it uses the following coding:

\'XX

where XX is the code of the given ISO 8859/2 (or PC-852 for Word for DOS) 
character in hexadecimal. 

5.2.3.4 Adobe PostScript

It is a universal standard for describing any kind of graphics,
including fonts, but it is aimed at producing the final (typically 
printed) copy of documents and not at word-processing per se. For a 
starter document see <http://www.adobe.com/PS/PS-QA.html>; or
<ftp://wilma.cs.brown.edu/pub/comp.lang.postscript/FAQ.txt> or
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/postscript/faq/part1-4>. 
If one has the right accented fonts sets then, in theory, the output is 
transferable between different machines - but often we run into hurdles 
in practice.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.4 Microcomputer products: The word processors 

 Different word processors on different microcomputers use several
proprietary internal control sequences to handle accented characters,
as much as other symbols, and other text formatting commands. If you
want to transfer a document like this, you have to convert this [very
probably] binary file (8-bit ASCII with all kinds of binary crap) to
text (7-bit ASCII), see 5.2.5.1, unless your mailer can handle binary
directly, see 5.2.5.2. Make sure, however, that the recipient of your
document also possesses the same or equivalent word processor, or a
word processor supporting the format you used.

 It might happen that you want to use your document in another word
processing system, or a plain text editor. Today's word processors
offer conversion to a few formats, and also pure text with different
character sets (5.2.2). The resulting file, if necessary, can be
converted further to 7-bit ASCII as shown in 5.2.6. (The output is
already 7-bit ASCII in Microsoft's RTF, see 5.2.3.3.)

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.5 Switching binary to ASCII and vice versa

5.2.5.1 Uuencode & uudecode

 The easiest and most popular way of conversion between binary and
ASCII is the use of the twin sisters uuencode and uudecode. These
programs were created originally for Unix ('uu' stands for Unix to
Unix), but today they are implemented under most platforms.

 Uuencode makes an ASCII file out of a binary one, forming 61 character
long lines to avoid problems excessively long lines can cause in the
different mailer agents. This conversion increases the size of the file
by 40%.  Warning! Understand the really goofy usage of uuencode. The
parameters specify the local & remote BINARY filenames respectively.
The encoded ASCII result is sent to the standard output, it has to be
redirected into a file explicitly. (E.g. uuencode myface.gif myface.gif
> myface.uue )

 Uudecode converts the encoded ASCII file back to binary. It is smart:
using the "begin" and "end" tags placed in the encoded file, uudecode
is able to retrieve the encoded information automatically discarding
everything before and after the tags (headers, signatures, other junk),
even if it's inserted in the middle of the Encyclopedia Britannica. Its
usage is also simple: only the input filename has to be specified; the
original filename is restored from the "begin" tag. (E.g. uudecode
yourface.mal )

5.2.5.2 MIME support

 Many modern mailers support the MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions) standard being able to transfer different file formats
beyond plain text. In this case the ASCII/binary conversion is the
mailer's internal affair. Some mailers make explicit calls to uuencode
and uudecode, some others (e.g. PINE) have different built in
conversion algorithms, trying to choose the most appropriate one for
the given binary file. (One type of MIME encoding substitutes an
unprintable character by its code in hexadecimal, preceded by an =
sign. That's why you often see them splattered around.) In either case,
however, the user is not responsible for the conversion, the mailer
takes care of it automatically.

5.2.5.3 Binhex

 BinHex files are 7-bit ASCII text files, typically used for encoding
Macintosh binaries. Conversion is done by various applications, see eg.
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.answers/macintosh/general-faq>.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.2.6 Translating between various accent formats

 From the HIX archives (see section 3) the following programs are
available.  The regular location is /HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs, though
you should also check /HIX/SENDDOC/new for updates. At the time of this
writing the SENDDOC archive is extremely ill-organized and outdated in
many parts, including, unfortunately, the 'new' directory.

 Warning! Whenever possible, try to reach the HIX-gopher at
hix.mit.edu. The one at hix.elte.hu is updated only at certain periods
of time, also there is a limited bandwidth on the lines connecting
Hungary to the world (see section 4).

5.2.6.1 ekezettelenites

 Gabor Toth's UNIX shell script for deleting unwanted accents from mail
files.

5.2.6.2 etex

 Gabor Toth's shareware C source code for converting the marking or
numerical accent notation to TeX-format. It also claims to be capable
of hyphenation. Supports the UNIX platform.

5.2.6.3 hion

 Peter Verhas's C source code. It's an improved version of etex, as it
reduces the probability of incorrect hyphenation with some built-in
exception library. Hion is able to do the conversion between the
numerical (or, redefining each accent mark, also the marking) accent
notation & TeX-format, and remove accents if the input is an accent
notation. Read his documentation. Supported platforms: VMS, MS-DOS,
UNIX.

5.2.6.4 drtc.c

 Peter Verhas's freeware C source code for conversion between RTF (Rich
Text Format), character sets ISO 8859/2 (Latin 2), PC-852 (Latin 2)
and CWI. The program attempts to find out the inbound format
automatically. The outbound format can't be RTF. Supported platforms:
VMS, MS-DOS, & possibly UNIX.

5.2.6.5 hun.c

 Gabor Ligeti's freeware C source code for accent removal and
conversion between the marking & numerical accent notation, TeX-format
and PC-852 (Latin 2) codepage. Warning! Conversion capabilities are not
orthogonal, type hun /? for the supported conversions. No platform
limitations are indicated.

5.2.6.6 MAXENT.UUE_V6.0a

 Peter Csaszar's freeware C source code compressed with pkzip & encoded
with uuencode (see 5.2.5.1). Warning! As of 6/12/95, the HIX gopher's
/HIX/SENDDOC/info/programs directory still contains 'maxent.c', the
very old version V1.4 of Maxent. Don't touch this file, go for version
V6.0a, currently in /HIX/SENDDOC/new directory.

 Maxent provides 100% orthogonality in conversion between any of the
accent notations listed in 5.2.1 but telegraphic style, and any of the
character sets listed in 5.2.2, allowing multiple notations in the
input file. The domain of conversion includes 6 vowels and 6 accent
types, applying therefore a house rule extension of the marking and
numerical accent notations. (Hoping that this extension becomes widely
accepted, no longer remaining a house rule.) Language accent profiles
other than the default Hungarian can be selected. Further accent
services include accent notation escaping & de-escaping (see 5.2.1.1),
and flexible substitution of the o3 etc. characters.

 Beyond some little services, the rest of the major features provide
comprehensive retabulation strategies, full newline conversion
capabilities and script file execution (ideal for maintaining mail
folders after download).

 The help given by the program can be saved into a file by typing
maxent -h0 > maxent.hlp . Print this file for fancy bedtime reading.

 Maxent supports only the MS-DOS environment, and should be compiled by
 a Borland C compiler. This is the sacrifice for the extensive services
provided.

5.2.6.7 ekezet.dot

 Via anonymous ftp from bme-tel.ttt.bme.hu, in the directory
/pub/income/, you can find Kornel Umann's WinWord template capable of
many kinds of conversion. Also find other goodies in the same
directory.

------------------------------

Subject: 5.3  Information sources pertaining to the rest of Central Europe

This section is by no means to be comprehensive.

 Both OMRI and CET cover the general region in their news. See Section
1.1 and 1.2, respectively.

 To complement the HUNGARY list (see Section 1.7), at the same listserv at
Buffalo there exist the Middle European discussion list MIDEUR-L as well as
POLAND-L and SLOVAK-L. Send the usual command to 
<mailto:>
(or simply  on BITNET):

      SUBSCRIBE listname-L Yourfirstname Yourlastname.

 On Usenet there is soc.culture.romanian, soc.culture.czecho-slovak,
soc.culture.polish, and the gatewayed bit.listserv.mideur-l and
bit.listserv.slovak-l; bit.listserv.hungary has been established, but
many sites do not have it. The surest way to receive everything is via
email. If you prefer using Usenet newsreaders you find HIX's HUNGARY
digests posted to soc.culture.magyar (which group does not seem to
suffer the poor propagation affecting some of the bit.listserv
groups).  Please notice that while the listserv groups are
bi-directionally gatewayed, i.e. posts to them get propagated back to
the original mailing list, the posts coming from HIX to
soc.culture.magyar are mere copies of the mailing list messages - do
not reply to the newgroups since your answer won't reach the email
readers (who constitute a likely large majority).

 Speaking of limitations of distribution be aware that some commercial
Internet connection providers (most blatantly American Online)
established their own groups with topics overlapping existing Usenet
hierarchy. The utility of these local groups is seriously limited since
they are, unlike the open real Usenet newsgroups such as those
mentioned above, unavailable to anyone but their own subscribers (i.e.
a small domestic fraction of all the Internet/Usenet users worldwide).
Please do not post to non-local groups saying how nice would be to use
these specialized forums - we can not. Use the newsgroup
soc.culture.magyar or the mailing lists!

 The Central European Regional Research Organization (CERRO) can
be joined at  with the command
SUBSCRIBE CERRO-L Firstname Lastname.  This is a scholarly group
that deposits papers and the like in an electronic archive in Vienna.
The archive is accessible with anonymous FTP at wu-wien.ac.at, or with
gopher at gopher.wu-wien.ac.at.

 The Eastern Europe Business Network ) is
primarily remarkable for its size (1700+ subscribers). Messages tend to
be brief bursts of announcements, questions and, unsurprisingly, calls
for or queries about business. The list is administered by Yale's Civic
Education Project (Chris Owen, <mailto:>). To
subscribe, send a message to the address
<mailto:> that has

             subscribe e-europe YourFirstName YourLastName
in its body.

 The repository for Voice of America material, accessible with gopher,
gopher.voa.gov, also contains some information and news items relevant
to the region.

 Check the NATO archive for goodies: <gopher://gopher.nato.int>.

 The Slovakia Document Store will answer all your questions about Slovakia:

on the World Wide Web, <http://www.eunet.sk/>;
or, via <gopher://gopher.eunet.sk>
or, via anonymous ftp,   ftp.eunet.sk, in the directory slovakia
or, via gophermail: send a message with Subject: HELP to
>.

------------------------------

Subject: 6.  CONTRIBUTORS TO THIS FAQ

(the order is alphabetical by last name)

Beke Tibor      <mailto:>            general layout, 2.1, 5.3
Bruner, Rick    <mailto:>      1.3
Csaszar Peter   <mailto:>    5.1, 5.2
Fabian Peter    <mailto:>  3.1, 4.1, 4.4
Fekete Zoltan   <mailto:>            much of the rest
Hewes, Cameron  <mailto:>       1.2
Hollo Kriszta   <mailto:>          4.2
Umann Kornel    <mailto:>         5.2
Varnum, Ken     <mailto:>        1.1

 If you have a question or remark regarding some specific section, you
may want to contact its author. The FAQ as such continues to be
maintained by Zoli Fekete <mailto:>. The keeper hereby
expresses the many thanks we all owe to every contributor - and above
all to Tibor Beke who brought about this cooperative effort, and took
upon consolidating the whole (with Peter Csaszar who took over the
next-to-last editing). Still, any errors are the responsibility of
Zoli's - who'd like to hear all corrections, recommendations or just
comments readers may have!

------------------------------

Subject: 7.      How to read this FAQ - what's in there < ~!@#$%^&* >

 One of these days ;-) there will be a guide here about how to handle
all the strange things that you may see embedded in this text; but in
the meantime, if you don't know yet what URLs are and are not reading a
copy thru a WWW browser that may show a selectable link: just do the
sensible thing and use email to access 'mailto:' addresses, ftp for
'ftp:' and telnet for 'telnet:'...

 Updated versions (but not this "beta") of this document will be in
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/hungarian-faq/faq.html
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/soc.culture.magyar/

Last updated on June 12, 1995.