You attacked my person(calling me names).You attacked the modality I 
write.You did not attack my article. THIS IS AN ILLOGICAL APPROACH.

I have to apologize for not paying attention to my spelling. I type over 
120 wpm and I do not spent the usual three hours to write an article, 
like yourself. My limited time forced me to ignore spelling.

elizabeth frantes wrote:

> So then a good "christian" will want to keep abortion
> legal--for we must be able to choose good.
> If all choices are taken away, there is no choice.

Then extermination of Jews and blacks must be also legal, otherwise we 
won't have
possibility to make a choice between extermination and non-extermination. 
Do you agree with
me?

> BTW, Ivan, you wild&crazy guy,
> since abortion is legal, it cannot by definition
> be murder.

Laws are nothing for me, when they contradict God's laws.


-- 

---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---



---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole, 
and separately, in each country, each government, each 
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my 
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society 
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a 
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---

Excel Communications is providing part time jobs for suckers who 
want to have their time wasted for minimal payback.  No Experience
required of course, hours are whatever your lame ass can put in,
and income will be substantially less than you earn for the company.
Excel is a long distance provider of questionable character, and
this is a network marketing job, meaning that you will have to sucker
people into signing up to be customers.  You will be responsible for
making annoying cold calls and engaging in unethical business practices.
This is how Excel has created its empire.  You make commission from
your customers long distance phone bills and also from your reps'
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realize that this is a scam and a half and this company isn't worth
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is of poor quality and the business operates on suckers doing all of
the selling.  For this reason, Excel has lower rates and you know you
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If you are not interested in being a rep and working for Excel, you can 
also use Excel as your long distance provider and save 30-50 percent 
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you might here lots of static on the line.  You would probably be better
using a tin can and string phone network.

For More info on doing either of these, email me back.
Donnie "WakeDead" Santos

Ross Hedvicek ) writes:
> To subscribe EEUROPE-CHANGES:
> Send command (in the body of text) SUBSCRIBE EEUROPE-CHANGES
> to 
> 
> To subscribe EEUROPE-BUSINESS:
> Send command (in the body of text) SUBSCRIBE EEUROPE-BUSINESS
> to 
> 
> In case of any trouble with subscribing, send complaint to
> >
> Ross 

Either I'm on a watch-out list or . . . 
when I subscribed I got an "invite-only" response.

Unfortunately the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation did make some
disparaging remarks about the Hungarians at the opening ceremonies
of the Olympics. This is what one of the commentators said: 
"Hungary was not invited to the 1920 Antwerp Olympics because
it was the agressor nation in WW I". Not only is this comment
highly inaccurate with respect to Hungary's participation in
that war, but it also singled out the Hungarians as no other 
nation received such negative comments - not even the Iraqis -
during the Olympic opening ceremonies.

Is vegetarianism becoming more common in Hungary?  How difficult is it to
get a meatless dish at an average restaurant?  Is this hopeless, and
should one do as the Romans (or in this case, the Hungarians) do?

Please email with insights.  Thanks!

Bryan
-- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another satisfied Aracnet user who  Aracnet -- Portland's loudest electrons
who hasn't edited their .signature  Ring +1 503 626.6873 V.34 (28800) 24hrs
,but might if you tell them. >=-)>  Browse http://www.aracnet.com for info!

T. Kocsis ) writes:
> In article > T. Kocsis, 
> writes:
>>She also posted her stuff to the French group.
> ..and to the German group as well.
> p.s: I don't go after her. I just netsurfing.
             /                          \
 That's ok, I'll do it.                 Watch out for the shallows.
 If you know any other
 groups, let us know.

In article >, Mpflerr > wrote:
>
>Igazad van, ez is lehet - - bar en mar regen megtanultam, hogy fontos
>objektivnek lenni es probalom ezt gyakorolni. Nem mindig sikerul azonban.

Helyesebben: csak ritkan sikerul.

>Az hogy NPA cikkei engem felhaboritanak es hogy azt tartom hogy 
>horpadt uvegen keresztul nezi az emberiseget es a vilagot - az egy privat
>dolog.

Akkor tartsd meg magadnak.

>Privat addig, amig senkinek sem okoz kart. 

Neki sem?

>>Egyebkent alig hiheto el rola, hogy mar ugyis vaj volt a fejen, amikor
>>epp elotte kapott elismerest jo munkajaert.
>Well, who knows? Az igazsag az, hogy mindenki spekulal es senki sem tud
>semmi konkretat, ha csak te nem.

Ha meg nem tudsz, akkor milyen alapon hinted el a gyanusitgatast, hogy
hazudik?

> Hiszen azt mondtad, hogy Neked megirta
>NPA, hogy ki(k) voltak a feljelentok??

Nem arrol volt szo, hanem arrol, hogy amit o itt leirt az ugyrol, az ugy
is volt.  Erre kaptam bizonyitekokat tobbed magammal is.

>Gondolod, hogy az ADL ilyen kis halal is foglalkozik? Nem tudom elhinni.

Persze, hogy foglalkozik, ha eppen nincs nagyobb hal.  Hiszen minden
szervezet igyekszik igazolni letenek szuksegesseget.  Ha kell, meg kis
ugyek felfujasaval is.

>Kulonben nem tudok semmit a Solomon Morel portre ("The Commander")-rol.
>Egy-ket mondatban leirnad, hogy mirol volt szo - termeszetesen csak az
>en cimemre? Elore is koszonom.

Attol felek, hogy erre majd tobben is egyenileg kernek majd, ha ezt
veled megteszem.  Nem is beszelve arrol, hogy nem szivesen levelezek
olyan valakivel, aki abban az elonyben van velem szemben, hogy o tudja
az en nevemet, en meg nem tudom az ovet.  Ezert inkabb maradnek a nyilvanos 
vonalon, s ha tobben is erdeklodnek, ide kuldom azt.  Egyebkent errol annak 
idejen kb. ket cikket is irtam a FORUMba, s talan megtalalom az archivumban.
 
>Meg kell hogy valljam Nektek, hogy az elmult 39 evben talan ha 10 levelet
>irtam magyarul akkor sokat mondok. Rettenetes nehezemre esett elosszor,
>furcsan neztek ki a leirott szavak. Bocsanat ha sok a hiba. 

No problem!  Ez a forum mar ugyis arrol kezd hires lenni, hogy kezdeti
rossz magyarsaggal irok csodalatos gyorsasaggal valtoznak szepirokka. ;-)
S szegeny Lorincze Lajos ezt mar nem elhette meg!

Pannon J.

Wally Keeler > wrote:
>
>Interestingly, the Ms has been posting her :ARE THE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS?
>(Version 3) on other soc.culture.*** groups, at least on those groups in
>the Hungarian neighbourhood. She doesn't cross post them in a single
>sweep, so one group doesn't know about other groups. Not just the Italian
>group, but also in the Czech and Slovak group. God knows why she would
>post her trash there. 

Because she knows it's music to many ears there.  She obviously has a
chip on her shoulder about Hungarians (jolted by a lover perhaps?), or
just an old fashioned provocateur.  In either case, it's best to leave
her alone as you could no more condemn her than she condemns herself
with those posts.  If she does not get responses, she will just get
tired of it sooner and quits.

Joe

In article > , 
writes:
>>Mazlim van, tegnap talaltam egy gorog adot, ahol
>>az egesz sulyemelest kozvetitettek.

>Milyen esellyel indul a 24 eves rokonod (Molnar Gabor) a
>sulycsoportjaban?  

Ugy nez ki megserulhetett vagy elrontotta a gyakorlatait,
mert 0 kg-mal van felsorolva az olimpiai honlapon. Hogy
milyen eselyekkel indult ? Nemtudom megmondani. O ere-
detileg 64 kg-os de felment egy sulycsoportot, es nem is-
merem az uj eredemenyeit. Lehet, hogy a valla rendetlen-
kedett megint. Nemreg mutottek.

>Engem a legjobban most az piszkal, hogy eddig semmi
>focit nem hozott le az NBC,

Europaban azert kozvetitenek meccseket, es valasztek is
van. A ba jaz, hogy mar 5 ora fele hajnalban kezdik, es ne-
kem sajnos dolgoznom kell, ezert az uszas utan (fel negy)
lefexem par orat aludni.

Viszont a noi futball tetszik. Tegnap volt a nemet-norveg.
A norvegok a vilagbajnokok. Engem megdobbentett, utolja-
ra akkor lattam noi focit, mikor meg gyerekcipoben jart.
Latva ezt a ket csapatot, az a gyanum, hogy ugy elkapalal-
nak a magyar ferfivalogat, mint a sicc. REndkivul dinami-
kus, gyors focit jatszottak a csajok, pontos passzok, gyo-
nyoru  technikai megoldasok. Es vegigfutottak a meccset.
Csupa olyasmi, amire a magyar fiuk keptelenek.

>Latta valaki valahol a magyar-brazil meccset?

Ma hajnalban volt,  engem is erdekelne az eredmeny.  A vi-
zilabdasok hogy allnak ? En a holland magyar egy reszet
lattam, amig a magyarok 5:6-rol 8:6-ra feljottek, aztan
at kellett kapcsolni a nemeteim miatt. Eppen kisebbseg-
ben voltam, nem voltak a hollandok a szobaban.

>A magyar tornaszokrol sem tudok semmit azon kivul, hogy
>Onodi gerenda gyakorlatat lattam az elso nap. 

Onodirol itt egy-az-egyben lemaradtunk. Egyetlen magyart
lattunk, az biro volt...

>Mi az?  Kioregedtek az NDK-bol orokolt uszoik?

Vagy csak nem jott ossze nekik. Nekik legalabb van utan-
potlasuk. Bat tegnap Kovacs harmadik lett 15 evesen..

Tamas

In article >,  > wrote:
>.............    ...   ...   ...  In either case, it's best to leave
>her alone as you could no more condemn her than she condemns herself
>with those posts.  If she does not get responses, she will just get
>tired of it sooner and quits.
>
>Joe

Sounds good to me!
GK

Szaszvari Peter irja:

>Szep, hogy valakinek van ideje ekezeteket tenni a leveleimre, amit en direkt 
>nem csinalok, pedig nem kis idot toltottem pont olyan programok irasaval amik 
>ezt teszik lehetove. (ld.: www lap)

Nem en voltam. :-)

>Tovabbra is allitom, hogy a feljelentes nem megoldas es nem megengedheto 
>(liberalis szempontbol :) vitak elintezesere.

Ezzel egyetertunk. Pont az igazi liberalizmus az amelyik a toleranciat hir-
deti. Igy ez az aktiv tamadas minden de nem tolerancia. Ha Szaszvari Peter 
komolyan gondolja fenti kijelenteset, ugy fejet hatok az elott magam is.

>De a tortenet zavaros, pedig igen jot tenne neki, ha tiszta lenne. 

A tortenetet nem erdekli, hiszen annak lenyegtelen. De nem is lenne ez a 
tortenet homalyos, ha oly sok ember kerdezett volna, mintsem megmagyarazta 
volna azt amirol goze sem volt. Kulonben nincs az ugyben reszemrol semmi 
titok. Csak kerdezni kell, kulturaltan persze.

>Pl. az embernek felajanljak, hogy tavozik vagy kirugjak. Ha tiszta a 
>lelkiismerete (vadak hamisak) nyugodtan valaszthatja az utobbit, hiszen ugysem
 
>tudjak kirugni.

Miutan a szakszervezet aminek kotelessege lett volna a foggal-korommel valo
megvedes, kijelentette, hogy semmi esely sincs, kerdem en, hogy ki az a 
hulye, aki szellel szemben fog vizelni? A szakszervezet finoman kozolte, hogy 
boromet akarjak a DOE. parancs ertelmeben, igy teljesen felesleges a kakas-
kodas. Az tutti kirugas es nuku munkanelkuli segely! De megint hozzateszem
az ugyhoz, mint azt elozoleg mar tettem: A vadak egy kivetelevel hamisak 
voltak.
Az az egy viszont valos volt. Megpedig a computerhasznalat privat celra, 
reven, hogy minden uj beleponek ala kell irnia, hogy nem hasznalja a computert
privat celra. Ugyanakkor az APS. resze a cegnek ahol en dolgoztam korlevelelet 
adott ki, hogy Internet megismerese vegett, munkasai hasznaljak az Internet 
minden szolgaltatasat, Mosaic, E-mail, Netscape, etc. Igy felallitottak egy 
csapdat. Nos kakaskodhattam volna, de a vegeredmeny ugyanaz. A DOE. parancsa
szent. Mennem kellett. A ceg idaig nem bocsajtott el, vagy kenyszeritett sen-
kit tavozasra tudtommal privat E-mail hasznalat miatt. Ha tenne, ugy a ceg 
holnap uresen kongana. 

>Ha viszont elment, akkor elment, nincs joga panaszkodni.

Miert nincs? A jogfolytonossaga az ugynek ketto ev az amerikai torvenyek er-
telmeben!

>Ha nekem holnap bizalmasan azt mondanak, hogy helyes lenne eltunnom innen, 
>nyilvan elmennek, nem harcolnek, hiszen szamomra semmit sem er olyan helyen 
>dolgozni ahol nemkivanatos elem vagyok.
>Viszont, ha ezt mondanak annak oka lenne, es nem feltetlenul olyan, ami benne 
>van a torvenyekben.

Nekem semmit sem mondtak bizalmasan. Minden figyelmeztetest nelkulozve 
repultem. Kulonben nemreg kaptam vallalati kituntetest irasban jo munkamert,
ami ugyancsak perbizonyitek szerepet is betoltheti. Nem a cegemnek volt velem
baja, hanem a felso politikai PC. bagazsnak!

>Azaz szerintem, ha az embert megutaljak valahol, akkor mar csak egy kicsi 
>indok kell, vagy egy alkalmas pillanat, ahhoz, hogy megszabaduljanak tole.

Ezt a megutalast mire alapozza Mr. Szaszvari? Vagy szemely szerinti bizonyi-
tekot ad, vagy aljas hazudozonak leszek kenytelen nevezni. Mifele szemet in-
szinuacio ez? Efajta aljas felrebeszeles a kezdo behulyito sorait ervenyte-
lenne teszi. 

>Mig, ha szeretik, szuksegesnek tartjak, akkor meg kulonbozo furcsasagai sot 
>kihagasai ellenere is megtartjak, kuzdenek erte.

Ugy latszik keszakarva jatsza Szaszvari a hulyet. Ha egy felsobb szerv azt 
mondja, hogy menni kell, akkor nem fog egy fonokocske sem jatszani allasaval.
Ertjuk, vagy jatszuk a hulyet?

>A helyzet az, hogy altalaban kozossegben, emberekkel dolgozunk egyutt es 
>a vegso dontest is ez a kozosseg mondja ki letunkrol vagy nemletunkrol.
>A tobbi csak indoklas, hivatalosdi jatek.

Hivatalosdi jatek? Haha, pont errol van szo! 

>NPA munkassaganak altalam olvasot rendkivul szuk keresztmetszete alapjan, 
>sajnos egy meglehetosen arrogans ember kepe bontakozik ki. Konnyen elkepzelem,
 
>hogy most volt munkahelyen mindenki felsohajtott. Egy jo fonok tudja mikor 
>szeretnenek a beosztottjai felsohajtani.

Nos elarulom Mr. Szaszvarinak, hogy egy rakas ember tanuskodik mellettem egy 
esetleges perfelvetel eseten. Az inszinuacioi meg elaruljak, hogy ki az 
arrogans ember. 

>Termeszetesen talalgatok de nem szokott az olyan nagyon rosszul menni...

Talalgatas csak a tudatlanok luxusa! Tehat csak igy tovabb...

NPA.

Szszvari megint:

>>Gondold a helyebe magad, ha teged erne egy ilyen tamadas, ilyen
>>varatlanul, ennyire fenntrol, ennyire kesz tenyek ele allitva,
>>tudnal-e azonnal egy racionalis es optimalis dontest hozni. En
>>magam attol tartok nem, legalabbis eddig hasonlo (csak tavolrol)
>>helyzetekben hozott elso reakciomat utolag mindig modositani,
>>finomitani kellett.

>Teljesen igazad van Tamas, mindenki csinal hulyesegeket, en is.
>Csak en nem reklamozom oket ilyen hevvel :)

Nos en nem hulyeseget csinaltam, hanem megvedtem a lehetosegeimet 
a munkanelkuli segely erdekeben. Ez nem a lehetosegeim feladasat 
jelenti. Szaszvari erolkodese az ugyben valo felrebeszelest ille-
toleg bosorolja ot is a megfelelo helyre. Oda is valo.

NPA.

Iain Walker wrote:

> I think you're forgetting some basic definitions here.  Military action
> carried out BY the United States is called "tactical strike",
> "peacekeeping", "restoration of authority", or (yes) "war"; military
> action carried out AGAINST the United States is called "terrorism".

The definition of military action the way I usually see it defined
requires the warring parties to wear a uniform when doing so. I have yet
to see any acceptance of using eg. jeans and a T-shirt as a legitimate
uniform. The least acceptable in that connection is using an arm band
with the colors and/or symbol of those you fight for. It's when somebody
"fight" covertly that it's usually termed terrorism, especially when the
victims of such "fights" are innocent civilians.

Regards,

Hans-Henrik

-- 
mailto:        http://www.DK.net/studenterforeningen/ht/
                     Telefax: +45 33 33 80 85

Mr. Marina irja:


>Igazad van, ez is lehet - - bar en mar regen megtanultam, hogy fontos
>objektivnek lenni es probalom ezt gyakorolni. Nem mindig sikerul azonban.
>Az hogy NPA cikkei engem felhaboritanak es hogy azt tartom hogy 
>horpadt uvegen keresztul nezi az emberiseget es a vilagot - az egy privat
>dolog.

Nos ugy hiszem, hogy egy kozmedian lekozolt politikai, tortenelmi cikk
aligha privat dolog. Miutan gondolom ezek haboritjak Marinat, igy ajan-
lom, hogy haborgas helyett vitaban vagjon vissza, nem pedig a  cikkiro
szemelyet analizalgassa. Mert ugye az a lenyeg?!

>>Egyebkent alig hiheto el rola, hogy mar ugyis vaj volt a fejen, amikor
>>epp elotte kapott elismerest jo munkajaert.
>Well, who knows? Az igazsag az, hogy mindenki spekulal es senki sem tud
>semmi konkretat, ha csak te nem.

Pl. az tudja akinek esetleg megkuldom a dicseret masolatat! :-)

>Meg kell hogy valljam Nektek, hogy az elmult 39 evben talan ha 10 levelet
>irtam magyarul akkor sokat mondok. Rettenetes nehezemre esett elosszor,
>furcsan neztek ki a leirott szavak. Bocsanat ha sok a hiba. 

Nem tesz semmit, a mocskolodas hiba nelkul atjott. 

NPA.

Bryan Geon ) wrote:
>Is vegetarianism becoming more common in Hungary?  How difficult is it to
>get a meatless dish at an average restaurant?  Is this hopeless, and
>should one do as the Romans (or in this case, the Hungarians) do?

If you mean get something meatless in an average restaurant you can get
something for sure (different kinds of fo"zele'k, Hungarian "pasta"
(ma'koste'szta, lekva'roste'szta, etc.) and
other pastries (bara'tfu~le, szilva'sgombo'c, turo'gombo'c, etc.).
BTW: In the summer some restaurants serve Southern European (sometimes
called "Balkan", Serbian or Greek) style salads
(with lots of cottage cheese (tu'ro') in it and an oily dressing.
In a hot day such a salad might do as lunch.

If you mean vegetarian main course, you are in trouble.
In Rome as Romans.

Andras

Mecsery wrote:

> BOYCOTT OF ALL COCA-COLA PRODUCTS

Christians are already boycotting Coca Cola, because Coca Cola is one of 
sponsors of Planned Parenthood - a prominent PRO-DEATH organization in 
the USA.

-- 

---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---



---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole, 
and separately, in each country, each government, each 
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my 
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society 
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a 
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---

You people attacked my person(calling me names).You attacked the modality 
I write.You did not attack my article. THIS IS AN ILLOGICAL APPROACH.

I have to apologize for not paying attention to my spelling. I type over 
120 wpm and I do not spent the usual three hours to write an article, 
like yourself. My limited time forced me to ignore spelling.

=BORG= > writes:

>Greg Kosinovsky wrote:
>> 
>>  (Maria Egorov) writes:
>> 
>> >ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3
>> 
>> >The Hungarians does not look any more Mongoloids for the same reasons the
>> >Turks in Istanbul
>> >look European.
>> 
>> >It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their
>> >roots are Mongolic.
>> 
>> >From Britannica :(Languages of the world)
>> 
>>  I omit the myriad of references because I find most of them similar and
>> because my main point is about how to interpret them. They all make
>> references to "Mongoloid" -- but Mongoloid does NOT mean "Mongol" -- as
>> in being closely related to people of Chingiz Khan. It simply means
>> "Oriental". Even this, however is misleading. The great stepps of Far
>> East Asia has been a place where Mongoloid and Caucasoid races mixed
>> for thousands of years. Thus, while "Mongols" looked very "Mongoloid"
>> when their hordes crossed into the "Western world", Huns, apparently,
>> did not -- they were very much mixed race. Similarly, the large group
>> speaking Turkic languages, of which Magyars were one, spanned the
>> spectrum from nearly "pure Mongoloid" to peoples with very Caucasoid
>> features, even before some of the Turks crossed the Oxus. To be perfectly
>> honest, I have no idea where the Magyars fit on the Turkic "racial
>> spectrum", and I think it's a moot point which is not easily proven
>> or disproven by historical references. One could guess, however, that
>> even if their features looke fairly "European", their complection would
>> not make them ideal candidates for Himmler's "pure race" breading camps.
>> 
>> Greg Kosinovsky

>I think Kosinovsky offended many Hungarians by his statements.
>AFAIK, Hungarian language is very similar to Finnish, which
>proves that the two nations used to live as one nation a long
>time ago. Do you, Kosinovsky, mean that Finnish people also
>are descendands of turks? Unlike Bosnian language, Hungarian
>doesn't have any words borrowed from Turkish, maybe just a few.

>Hungarians are white people, not some turks. I speak a few words
>of Estonian and Finnish and I did found similarities between
>Finnish (Suomi) and Hungarian languages.

>Vlad Petersen

Vlad, finally you seem to be showing geniune interest in 
learning what educated people know. This is a great start. 

In any case, to answer your question, your intuition is absolutely right: 
Hungarians and Finns do come from the same linguistic and (presumably)
ethnic roots. However, Greg is also right. As we all know, Finns and Magyars 
come originally from Asia. I don't have the history books handy and have to 
write from memory, but here is what I remember from my history classes:

In the first millenium AD with the increasing pressure from the Chinese 
Empire in the south, various Turkish-Mongol nomad tribes, living in the 
vicinity of the lake Baikal, were forved out. The only direction they could 
move was West. Thus, came several waves of such migrations. I do not 
remember the exact order, but I think it was first Huns, then Magyars, then 
Khazars, then Turks and Tatars, then Mongols. I thing Bulgars are related to 
these peoples as well. Each new wave pushed towards the steppes of what is 
today South Russia (North of the Caucus mountain, Kuban', Don) and Ukraine. 
Each wave mixed with the native tribes there. Each new wave pushed the older 
ones more to the West. That's how Bulgars, starting from the Volga region, 
ended up in the Balkans; that's how Finns and Magyars, starting from 
the Ural mountains or so (and southern Siberia before that), ended up in 
Scandinavia and Central Europe respectively. There are other ethnicities 
that are related to Finno-Magyars: Karels, Estonians, Mordva, Udmurts, Komi, 
etc. This is from my memory.

If you want exact facts and more details, I suggest you open any book (other 
than the Soviet textbooks) on Russian and/or European history.

As far as your indignation about Finns goes, the fact that now both 
Hungarians and Finns are blond and blue-eyed shows us all how much 
different ethnic groups have intermixed over the course of history.

Regards,

Dan

In article >, "Hans-Henrik T. Ohlsen" > w
rites:

>The definition of military action the way I usually see it defined
>requires the warring parties to wear a uniform when doing so. I have yet
>to see any acceptance of using eg. jeans and a T-shirt as a legitimate
>uniform. The least acceptable in that connection is using an arm band
>with the colors and/or symbol of those you fight for. It's when somebody
>"fight" covertly that it's usually termed terrorism, especially when the
>victims of such "fights" are innocent civilians.

Uniforms? Civilians? Come on.. War is terrorism where _both_ parties 
openly declare their willingness to fight. That's all.

T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>
>Ugy nez ki megserulhetett vagy elrontotta a gyakorlatait,
>mert 0 kg-mal van felsorolva az olimpiai honlapon. Hogy

Kar.

>Viszont a noi futball tetszik. Tegnap volt a nemet-norveg.
>A norvegok a vilagbajnokok. Engem megdobbentett, utolja-
>ra akkor lattam noi focit, mikor meg gyerekcipoben jart.
>Latva ezt a ket csapatot, az a gyanum, hogy ugy elkapalal-
>nak a magyar ferfivalogat, mint a sicc. REndkivul dinami-
>kus, gyors focit jatszottak a csajok, pontos passzok, gyo-
>nyoru  technikai megoldasok. Es vegigfutottak a meccset.

Erdekes, en is pont igy vagyok vele.  Eletemben eloszor tavaly lattam
egy noi meccset a U. of Washington es a U. of North Carolina
valogatottja kozott, s nagyon jo benyomasokkal tavoztam.  Azota is
keresem a lehetoseget az ilyen meccsekre.  Mivel az USA noi csapata
jobban van jegyezve, mint a ferfi, elvartam volna, hogy az NBC legalabb
a noi meccsekbol kozvetitsen.  De a Web-en talalhato kozvetitesi
tervben semmi foci sem talalhato. 

>>Latta valaki valahol a magyar-brazil meccset?
>
>Ma hajnalban volt,  engem is erdekelne az eredmeny.  A vi-
>zilabdasok hogy allnak ? En a holland magyar egy reszet
>lattam, amig a magyarok 5:6-rol 8:6-ra feljottek, aztan
>at kellett kapcsolni a nemeteim miatt. Eppen kisebbseg-
>ben voltam, nem voltak a hollandok a szobaban.

Gondolom kozben megtudtad az eredmenyt.  Szerintem a 3:1-es veszteseg
nem is olyan rossz a brazilok ellen.  No de meg a nigeriaiak ellen is
vesztettek, ugyhogy talan jobb is, hogy nem lattam a meccseket.
>
>Onodirol itt egy-az-egyben lemaradtunk. Egyetlen magyart
>lattunk, az biro volt...

A HIX Sport szerint 88. lett, ha jol emlekszem.  Hat ez bizony nagy
visszaeses Barcelonahoz kepest.

>Vagy csak nem jott ossze nekik. Nekik legalabb van utan-
>potlasuk. Bat tegnap Kovacs harmadik lett 15 evesen..

Ugy latom foleg bronz ermeink lesznek.

PJ

In article >, sodrem > wrote:
>Nincsen eleg informaciod ahhoz, hogy ezt a megallapitasd tedd.

Az eddigi itteni "termesed" alapjan irtam azt.  Sajat magad meg nem vagy
eleg objektiv ahhoz, hogy kijelentsed magadrol azt, amit irtal.
Te legalabb olyan partosan irsz itt, mint en.  

>En karosnak tartottam NPA cikkeit. 

Hat ennek a kijelentesnek elegge partvonalas ize van.  Egy kicsit tulzas
a neked nem tetszo cikkeket "karosnak" tekinteni.  Ebben a kijelentesben
implicite benne van az, hogy a rajtad kivulallokrol feltetelezed az
infantilizmust.  Azt, hogy masok nem tudjak kritikus szemmel olvasni NPA
cikkeit, csak te.  Annak ellenere, hogy a tomegmediak naponta sulykoljak
az NPA nezeteivel ellenteteseket.  Ezek szerint ugyancsak gyenge erveik
lehetnek az NPA-ellenes eroknek.

>Ezzel egyutt en soha sem tettem
>volna ellene feljelentest. Amint mar elozoleg mondtam en hiszek abban
>hogy "what goes around, comes around". 

Ennek olyan karorom ize van, ha jol ertettem.  Vagy talan ugy ertetted,
hogy a mostani feljelentokre is meg rajarhat a rud?  Ezzel viszont
egyetertek.

>En nem "hintettem el gyanusitast" hanem hozza szoltam egy nyilvanosan targyalt
>ugyhoz. Mar annal tobb gyanusitast hintenni nem lehet, akkar jobbrol,
>akar balrol, ami eddig le lett irva.

Hat pedig ugy velekedni egy megfurtrol, hogy "ki tudja igaz-e amit irt?",
egyertelmuen rosszindulatu dolog.  Hogy teged idezzelek, neked nincs
eleg informaciod meghazudtolni NPA-t.
>
>Kerlek szepen! Ez ertheto. Ellenben honnan tudom en hogy a Te neved
>"igazi"?  

Honnan tudod ezt egyaltalan valakirol is itt?  En legalabb ki
szoktam irni idonkent a teljes nevemet is, amit toled meg nem lattam.
Az mar engem kevesbbe erdekel, hogy az a nev valodi, vagy felvett iroi
nev.  Anelkul azt sem tudtuk, hogy fiu vagy-e, vagy lany.  Az utobbi
idok Marinaja meg nem volt elegge meggyozo.

> Az en teljes nevem Marina Erdo"s Pflieger.

No latod!  Mindjart igy kezdhetted volna.

> Amikor "ujabb" voltam
>a group-on nem mertem beirni a nevemet ket okbol. Egy: Ovatos akartam
>lenni, nekem ez egy nagyon uj experience volt. Ketto: Amikor kezdtem
>ismerosebb lenni, nagyon sok banto cikket olvastam es el voltam
>ajulva, hogy ilyen is van.

Hat azert te sem fukarkodtal a tuskekkel a nevtelenseged fedezetevel!

>voltak olyanok akik azt spekulaltak, hogy en ferfi vagyok, stb.,

Ezt is csak magadnak koszonheted.  Elvegre nem volt semmi az irasaidban,
amire no"re lehetett kovetkeztetni, s statisztikai alapon ferfit
valoszinusitettem en is.

>Most mar megszoktam a tonust es mivel sajnos nincs magyar korulottem
>a minden napi eletemben, nagyon orulok hogy van a group. Ennyi ebbol
>eleg. Joe, oszinten beszelek, legyszives ne legyel rosszmaju. Thanks!:))

Nyugi, ezzel csak inkabb bevagodtal nalam. ;-)

>Ehhez szeretnem hozza tenni,hogy Aprilis ota valakivel levelezem magyarul
>es fantasztikus, hogy "felszabadultam", kezdenek "aradni" a szavak.

No latod!  Ez a forum csodakra kepes!

Jozsi

 (Dan Korolev) wirtes:
>As we all know, Finns and Magyars 
come originally from Asia.

Actually, a more modern contention of archeologists (e.g. Paul Dolukhanov,
Milton Nunez) is, that already the populations of the periglacial zone of the
latest glacial period in Europe spoke Uralic languages. The Indo-European
language arrived in this area possibly with the spread of agriculture, maybe
about 4000 BC (from Asia through Balkan), and slowly replaced the Uralic
languages, except in the most remote corners, like Finland.


>In the first millenium AD with the increasing pressure from the Chinese ... 

>...came several waves of such migrations...
>...Each new wave pushed the older 
ones more to the West...
>...that's how Finns and Magyars, starting from 
the Ural mountains or so
> (and southern Siberia before that), ended up in 
Scandinavia and Central
> Europe respectively. 

I mainly agree; the movement of the Madyars from Eastern parts of Europe
back to the center indeed happened in this way. But, when the
Finns are concerned, this theory has been abandoned. The continuum of
the archeological findings in Finland strongly suggests, that already the
population, who came to the area of Finland after the ice retreated
(maybe 10 000 years ago) probably were Uralic.

>As far as your indignation about Finns goes, the fact that now both
>Hungarians and Finns are blond and blue-eyed shows us all how much
>different ethnic groups have intermixed over the course of history.



This mixing in Europe was thorough:  All Central- and North-European nations
(except the Saamis, i.e. the Lapps) are genetically very close to each other,
and there are no racial borbers, which would go along with the language borders
.
According to recent comparative studies of mitochondrial DNA, the Finns are
genetically very close to the language relatives (e.g. Mordvians, Hungarians),
but exactly as close to lingual non-relatives (e.g. Germans, Lithuanians, Poles
).

Best regards,
Jari P.

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On 23 Jul 1996, heringer wrote:
> Jozsi, ha Window 3.1 van, akkor igen konnyu mindenfajta ekezet (csak az 
> e-mail-en nem jon ki).
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Ha1t ez az ;-(...

- --
 Zoli , keeper of <http://www.hix.com/hungarian-faq/>;
*SELLERS BEWARE: I will never buy anything from companies associated
*with inappropriate online advertising (unsolicited commercial email,
*excessive multiposting etc), and discourage others from doing so too!


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In article >,  > wrote:
>In article >, "Hans-Henrik T. Ohlsen" > 
writes:
>
>>The definition of military action the way I usually see it defined
>>requires the warring parties to wear a uniform when doing so. I have yet
>>to see any acceptance of using eg. jeans and a T-shirt as a legitimate
>>uniform. The least acceptable in that connection is using an arm band
>>with the colors and/or symbol of those you fight for. It's when somebody
>>"fight" covertly that it's usually termed terrorism, especially when the
>>victims of such "fights" are innocent civilians.
>
>Uniforms? Civilians? Come on.. War is terrorism where _both_ parties 
>openly declare their willingness to fight. That's all. 

In war both parties can fight each other, i.e. bomb each other's military
bases and so on.  Terrorists hide among the civilian population, giving
no target for retaliation.

In an all-out war, sooner or later somebody will probably win.  Terrorists
just cause senseless death and destruction, and are unlikely to ever
accomplish anything for their own people.  Other than making them look bad.

Koszonom Toth Laszlo kedves levelet.Ha jol ertettem,hogy a forumot
olvashassam akovetkezot kell irjam:
  Subs 
Elore is koszonom
              Istvan

In article >,  > wrote:
| Istvan Szucs > wrote:
| 
| >Egyebkent nem tudom hogy ne,m lenne e ugyved aki ezt
| >elvallalja anelkul hogy Nemenyinek elore kellene
| >fizetnie.Kulonosen hoa ugy erzik hjogy jogseretes tortent
| >amibol ok is penzt csinalhatnak maguknak is.
| 
| Kiveve, ha esetleg azzal ujjat huznanak az ADL-lel.
| Amilyen gyorsan ezt az ugyet kezeltek, s amennyire meg a szakszervezet
| is az orrat fogta tole, az ADL kozbenjarasa szerintem
valoszinusitheto.

Szrintem nem. Nemhiszem hogy egy Dept of Energy Labor
asszisztensenek a kirugasa annyira erdekelne oket. Kulonosen
az adott helyzetben.
  
| Marpedig aki egy kicsit is ismeri az amerikai belpolitikat az tudja,
| hogy "when ADL talks, people listen."  Ha pedig eddig nem is avatkozott
| az ugybe, az tuti, hogy egy per eseten ereztetne a
befolyasat.

Nem hiszem hogy az amerikai igazsagszolgaltatas az ADL
rabja lenne. Erre rengeteg ellenpelda van, peldarol pedig
gyakorlatilag nem is tudok. Talan emlits nehanmyat.

Istvan

I know lots of Hungarians in United States and other foreign lands who 
are presenting the Romanians as Gipses.Advancing the idea that 
ROM=ROMANIAN=GYPSY.
The HUNGARIANS know very well the history of the Romanians(Olah,Vlacv).
Unfortunatly,some of the Hungarians(+Austrians,implicitly Germans) in the 
West try desperately (guided by the nostalgia of the Austro-Hungarian 
Empire) to degrade the Romanians to the point where they will fill 
inferior.(With no Roman Roots).
And all this is because they(Hungarians +Germanics)did not accommodate 
with the idea that Transilvania is part of Romania.
For those Hungarians who ignore HISTORY:(Like Wally Keeler who presented  
ROMANIANS=GYPSY).

                                                      PART I

Note: In the following article I used Romanians(Vlachs) = ROMANS. The = 
sign should be interpreted as: direct descendants of the Romans,people 
connected culturaly,racialy,to the Romans.


The Romanians were known in the past as:

VALACHUS (By the Catholic West)
FLACI(By catholic West)
IFLAK (By the Turks)
VLASI & VOLOH (By the Slavs)
OLAH &BLACH (By the Hungarians)
OLAHOK (By the Hungarians)
OLASZOK (The Hungarian name for the Italians)
WALACH (By the Germans)
WALSCHER (The German name for the Italians)
BLACHOS & VLACHOS (By the Greeks)
BLOCH (By the Saxons in Transilvania)
WOLOSZY (By the Polish)
WLOCHI (The Polish name for the Italians)

In old German WALH = ROMAN
In Gothic VOLK = ARMED PEOPLE
In old slavonic VLAST = POWER(considered of Gothic origin)
In old slavonic VLAST = GIGANTE

Romanians always called themselves ROMANS & RUMANS,and the neighbors 
called them Vlachs,Vlasi,Olahs,etc.
If we mention few Chronicals where the Romanians are mentioned we are 
going to learn more.


From:

CONSTANTINE FLAVIUS PORPHYROGENITUS (BYZANTINE EMPEROR 913-959)
From "De administrando imperio".Constantine's surname, 
PORPHYROGENITUS(that is, born in the Purple Chamber of the Imperial 
Palace in CONSTANTINOPLE).

 "The emperor Diocletian was much enamored of the country of Dalmatia,and 
he brought folk with their families from ROME and settled them in this 
same country of Dalmatia,and they were called ROMANI (VLACHS) from their 
having been removed from ROME, and this title attaches to them until this 
day..."

"The territory possessed by the ROMANI used to extend as far as the river 
Danube"
(Constantine shows that the ROMANS(Latins, NOT Greek Romans or 
Byzantines) or Vlachs are the original Romans.

"The country of the ZXHLUMI was previously possessed by the ROMANS, I 
mean, by those ROMANI whom Diocletian the emperor translated from ROME"
(Constantine is talking about the Imperial Romans,who are going to be 
known under the name of VLACHS).
 
"The country of Diocleia was also previously possessed by the 
ROMANI(Vlachs) whom the emperor Diocletian translated from ROME"

"The country in which the Pagani now dwell was also previously possessed 
by the ROMANI(Vlachs) whom the emperor Diocletian translated from ROME 
and settled in Dalmatia".

"At that time when the Avars had fought and expelled from those parts the 
ROMANI(Vlachs) whom the emperor Diocletian had brought from ROME and 
settled there,and who therefore called ROMANI from their having been 
translated from ROME to those countries"

SUMMARY: In his description of the Greek Roman Empire,we can definitely 
identify two people,the Imperial Romans(VLACHS-those Romans  who 
initiated the empire),called by Constntine,ROMANI, and the Greek 
Romans(BYZANTINES-those Romans who adopted GREEK as the language of the 
State and Church).












POPE CLEMENT 6 (1342-1352).

"Olachi Romani,commorantes in partibus Ungariae,Transilvanis,Ultralpinis 
et Sirmus"
(In Hungary,Transilvania,Muntenia and Sirmia live the Roman-Vlachs)
or
"Tam nobilibus quam popularibus Olachis Romanis"

SUMMARY: Romanians = Romans (Vlachs).



 POPE PIUS II (1458-1464) (Commentarium rerum memorabilium)

"VALACHI lingua utuntur Italica, verum imperfecta, et admodum corrupta; 
sunt qui legiones Romanas eo missas olim censeant adversus Dacos, qui eas 
terras incolebant; legionibus Flaccum quendam praefuisse, a que Flacci 
primum,deinde Valachi, mutatis litteris, sint appellati;quorum posteri 
(ut ante relatum est) "

SUMMARY:
(The Vlachs are a people of Roman origin,born from an antic Roman 
Imperial colony,speaking a language close to Latin or Italian)


Nicolaus Machinensis, episcop of Modrussa ( DALMATIA)

"Inferiora vero quaecumque Ister Boristenesque intercipt usque ad Ponti 
ripas Valacchi obtinent,
romani quondam vel exules vel milites, a duce Flacco ita cognominati, 
nunc immutatione litterae Vlacchi appellati: quo vocabulo non modo ea 
gens sed omnes quoque finitimae nationes hodie Italos nominant. Valacchi 
originis suae illud praecipuum prae se ferunt argumentum quod, quamvis 
Mysorum lingua quae illyrica est omnes utantur, vernaculo tamen sermone, 
hoc est latino haud prorsus obsoleto ab incunabulis loquuntur; et cum 
ignotis congressi, dum linguae explorant comertium, an ROMANAE loqui 
norint interrogant".

SUMMARY:

( Romanians/Vlachs = Romans)

Janus Pannonius,Hungarian Humanist/Poet (1434-1472)

"Sarmatici montes et vos septemplici Istri 
Caerulea Euxinio cornua mixta Mari,
Ac tu Romanis olim possessa colonis
Sed iam corrupto, barbara rerra, sono 
Quid dominum lentis longe retinetis in armis?"

Summary:

(Romanians/Vlachs = Romans)

Alessandro Cortesi (1469-1491),Poet.

"An procul expusos Nomadas, serasque luentes
Pastores rupto Siculos pro foedere poenas?
Trinacriae Siculos quondam, Schythiaeque colonos,
Fortia magnanimos praebentes colla Valachos,
Qui referunt prisca Roamanam ab origine gentem?"

Summary: (ROMANIANS/VLACHS = ROMANS)

POPE Innocent III (in  a latter from 1203).

"Therefore, we, who have been appointed by the will of GOD and Father,
unworthy as we are, as vicars and successors of the Apostolic See, to 
prove by the force of facts our fatherly love for the Church of the 
Bulgarians and ROMANIANS (VLACHS),who are said to be THE DESCENDENTS OF 
THE ROMANS,by their flesh and blood"

 
POPE Innocent III (in a letter addressed to IONITA, lord of the 
Bulgarians and Romanians,from 1203)


"Thus, taking this into account, we have decided since long, through our 
envoy or our letters, that we should pay a visit to your lordship, so 
that,realizing your faith to the Roman Church,Your Mother, we might then 
send to you,WHO SAY THAT YOU ARE A DESCENDENT OF THE NOBLE KIN OF THE 
ROMANS...As, he (God the Father) will help you to be a ROMAN in this 
wordily life and for your Eternal Salvation by your own striving, the 
same as you are BY YOUR DESCENT; and he shall help the people of your 
country, which say that they are the ROMANS,blood and flesh".

Enea Silvio Piccolomini, "Cosmography" 1501.

"Transilvania...,it is inhabited by three peoples: the Saxons, the 
Szecklers and the ROMANIANS.
The Saxons had come from Saxony,and are strong men,used to the struggle...
The Szecklers are considered the most ancient Hungarians...,The ROMANIANS 
are of Italian stock..., A colony of the ROMANS was settled there (Dacia) 
to keep a tight rein over Dacians under the leadership of a certain 
Flaccus, after whose name the coutry was called Flacohia and its 
inhabitants were called VLACHS instead of Flacci. This people speaks now 
a ROMAN idiom, although partly changed,and hardly understood by an 
Italian".

Francesco della Valle,1532,(Secretary of Aloisio Gritti,a natural son to 
Doge Andrea Gritti).

"The Romanians(Vlachs) are of Italian stock, and according to them, they 
are the descendants of the OLD ROMANS".



The anonymous notary of King Bela,Gesta Hungarorum.


"For, after king Attila's death,the ROMANS called the soil of Panonia a 
graze field as,their herds used to graze in the country of Panonia.And 
they were right in calling the Panonian soil the grazing fields of the 
ROMANS, as even nowadays, the ROMANIANS(Vlachs) feed their sheep on the 
Hungarian estates".


IOAN KINNAMOS(Imperial secretary under two Byzantine emperors, Manuel I & 
Andronic)

"It is said about the Vlachs that they are the old descendents of those 
from Italy".


Poggio Bracciolini (1380-1459),"Disceptationes convivales", Florentine 
Humanist.

"Apud superiores Sarmatas colonia est ab Traiano ut aiunt derelicta, quae 
nunc etiam inter tantam barbariem multa retinet latina vocabula, ab 
Italis, qui eo profecti sunt, notata.
Oculum dicunt, digitum, manum,panem,multaque alia quibus apparet ab 
Latinis, qui coloni ibidem relicti fuerunt, manasse eamque coloniam 
fuisse latino sermoneusam".

Summary: Romanians(Vlachs = Romans).

Flavio Biondo(1392-1463), Humanist.

"Et qui e rgione Danubio item adiacent Ripenses Daci, sive Valachi,
originem, quam ad decus prae se ferunt praedicantque ROMANAM, loquela 
ostendunt, quos catholice christianos ROMAN quotannis et Apostolorum 
limina invisentes, aliquando gavisi sumus ita loquentes audiri, ut, quae 
vulgari communique gentis suae more dicunt, rusticam male grammaticam 
redoleant latinitatem"

Summary: Romanians(Vlachs= Romans).

NICOLAUS MACHINENSIS, Episcop of Dalmatia, under Pope Pius II.

"Inferiora vero quaecumque Ister Boristenesque intercipt usque ad Ponti 
ripas Valacchi obtinent, romani quondam vel exules vel milites, a duce 
Flacco ita cognominati, nunc immutatione litterae Vlacchi appellati: quo 
vocabulo non modo ea gens sed omnes quopue fimitimae nationes hodie 
Italos nominant".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Janus Pannonicus (1434-1472), The most important Hungarian Humanist.

"Sarmatici montes et vos septemplicis Istri
Caerulea Euxinio cornua mixta Mari,
Ac tu Romanis olim possessa colonis
Sed iam corrupto, barbara terra, sono
Quid domimum lentis longe retinetis in armis?".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Filippo Buonaccorsi Callimaco (1438-1496), Italian Political Annalist.

"Sed utcunque immensus uel infinitus potios, eadem ubuque lingua et 
praeter Romanorum coloniam Valachiam gentes omnes eadem primordia 
profitentes".
 
"Fama nouae coloniae aliquamdiu motus Scuthios compescuit.Deinde non 
solum propulsantibus, sed egregie etiam inferentibus bellum Romanis datae 
acceptaeque sunt utrinque paene innumerabiles clades, cum pleraque a 
caesaribus supplementa et auxilia suis mitterentur".

Summary: Romanian (Vlachs) = Romans.

Jan Dlugosz (1415-1480),Polish Chronicler.

"(1359) Stephano Moldaviae Voievodae, apud Valachos mortuo, quorum 
maiores et aboriginarii de Italiae Regno pulsi ( genus et natio Volscorum 
esse fuisseque creduntur) veteribus Dominis et colonis Ruthenis, primum 
sudole, deinde abundante in dies multitudine, ".

Summary: Romanians(Vlachs )= Romans.

Raffaelo Maffei Volterano (1506),Italian Humanist.

"Eo quod Romanos, ut dixi, accepere colonos, pleraque uocabula loquuntur 
lingua semijtalica,argumento est nomen Valachiam enim appellant, quod 
Valach Italicum lingua ipsorum dicatur".

Summary: Romanians ( Vlachs = Romans).

Marcantonio Coccio(1436- 1506), Italian Historian.

"Valachi italicum genus hominum: horum terram Daci olim tenuerunt: nunc 
Teutones, Siculi et Valachi tenent... Valachorum nobilissimi qui 
agriculturam et qui pecuariam exercent".

Summary: Romanians(Vlachs) = Romans.

Felix Petancici(1445-1517), Humanist from Ragusa.

"Haec est provincia Dacia dicta apud veteres, Romanorum colonia(unde eius 
aborigines hac etiam nostra tempestate) passim latino utuntur colloquio".


Summary: Romanians(Vlachs) = Romans.

Joachim Vadian(1484-1551),Swiss Humanist.

"Supra Cataractas Danubius, infra vero Ister dicitur, sunt autem hae 
maximae, intre montes Dacorum Straboni, eos hodie Iazigibus et 
Transiluanis subiunctos, Walachos nominant, vocabulo Boemis Sarmatisque 
uernaculo, quod inde natum uidetur, namque ‘ty Vlasschi' Italos nominant 
quos ibi consedisse ex Pannonicis Sarmaticisque Romanorum bellis constant,
cum ne hodie quidem eorum lingua ab Italica multum sit absona".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Stephan Taurinus (1485-1519), Moravian Humanist.

"Valachia vulgo Latinis Vlaccia dicitur, provintia Pannoniae 
Cisdanubianae contermina in pontum usque descendens cum Damubo, veteres 
inferiorem Moesiam dixere, vide superius loco suo. Inde Vlacci Vlacciae 
populi, quos vulgus Valachos appellant".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Johann Boemus (1520), German Humanist.

"Sed ea Thraciae pars quae Gethica olim dicebat, vbi Darius Hidaspis 
filius pene perijt, hodie Valachia appellatur, a Flaccis quiritum gente, 
Rhomani enim Gethis superatis et deletis Flacci cuiusdam ductu eo 
Coloniam miserunt, vnde prumum Flaccia, dein corrupta voce Vallacia 
dicta".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Sebastian Franck (1499-1543), German Humanist.

"In didem landt (Walachia) haben ettwan das volck Gethe gewonet, die 
gross krieg gebraucht haben, zu letst mit den Rhomischen waffen ernider 
gerruckt, abgetilckt vnd mit yhrem volck besetzt, vnder dem Rhomischen 
hauptmann Flacco, von dem sy Flaccia nachmals vnlang Walachia gnant 
worden ist, das diss volcks spraach noch heut her meysttheyl Rhomisch ist,
 doch also corrumpiert, daz sy einem Rhomer kaum verstendtlich seind"

Summary: Romanians(Vlachs) = Romans.

Georg Rithaymer(1563), Austrian Humanist.

"Valachi Italicum genus hominum in colonias huc missum, plane in mores 
Getarum abierunt, ita nihil antiquae originis suae retinent, praeter 
linguam quam barbare et corrupte conant".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Nicolaus Olahus(1493-1568),Romanian(Vlach) Humanist.

"Lingua, ritu, religione eadem Moldavi utuntur, qua Transalpini; vestitu 
aliqua saltem ex parte differunt...Sermo eorum et aliorum Valachorum fuit 
olim Romanus, vt qui sint coloniae Romanorum: nostra tempestate, maxime 
ab eo differt; praeterquam quod multa eorum vocabula, latinis sint 
intelligibilia...Valachi, Romanorum coloniae esse traduntur. Eius rei 
argumentum est, quod multa habeant communia cum idiomate Romano, cuius 
populi pleraque numismata, eo laci reperiuntur; haud dubie, magna 
vetustatis imperiique Romani istic indicia".


Summary: Romanians(Vlachs) = Romans.

Theodor Bibliander(1548),Swiss Humanist.

"Post irruptiones Gothorum et Germanicarum gentium et Sclavinorum, atque 
lacerationem et ruinam, imperij, sermo provincialis degeneravit longius a 
sua origine, ut in provincia Daciae Vualachorum lingua, Vlasky enim 
Italum aut Walhen sonat Slavis. Idem accidit in Hispanijs, in Gallia, 
denique in ipsa Italia, in Latio, in urbe domina gentium et sede Romanae 
eloquentiae"

Summary: Romanians(Vlachs) = Romans.

Iacob Heraclid,Despot-Voda, prince of Moldovia.

"Con voi valenti homeni et gente bellicosa discesi dali balorosi Romani, 
quali hano fatto trmer il mondo... Et a questo se faremo cognoscer a 
tutto il mondo li veri Romani et discesi da queli et il nome nostro sara 
immortale et conergeremo l'imagine di nostri padri".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Stanislaw Orzechowski(1513-1566),Polish Humanist.

"Hi (sc. Daci) erant ex Italis Romanisque proceati, qui Duce Lucio 
Valerio Flacco cum Daciam occupavissent, in hisque Regionibus uxores 
duxissent, ac consenuissent, hoc Dacos reliquerunt, qui eorum lingua 
Romini a Romanis, nostra Walachi, ab Italis appellantur. Wloszy enim 
Polonis idem est, quod Itali Latinis".

Summary: Romanians (Vlachs) = Romans.

Martin Opitz(1597-1639), The father of modern German literature.

"Doch ewre (der Romer) Sprache bleibt noch hier auff diesen Tag,
Darob man dich gewiss gar billich wundern mag.
Italien hat selbst nicht viel von seinem alten
Ingleichen Spanien vnd Gallia behalten:
Wie wenig diese nun den Romern ehnlich sein,
So nahe sind verwandt Walachisch und Latein"

"Es steckt manchs edles Blut in kleinen Bawrenhutten,
Das noch den alten brauch vnd der Vorfahren sitten
Nicht gantzlich avgelegt. Wie dann jhr Tantz anzeigt,
In dem so wunderbar gebuckt wird und geneigt,
Gesprungen in die hoh, auff  art der Capreolen,
Die meine Deutschen sonst auss Franckrich mussen holen,
Bald wird ein Kreiss gemacht, bald wiederumb zutrant,
Bald gehn die Menscher recht, bald auff der lincken hand,
Die Menscher, die noch jtzt fast Romisch muster tragen,
Zwar schlecht, doch witzig sein, viel dencken, wenig sagen"

Romanians(Vlachs) = Romans.

ETC,ETC...

FOR MORE INFORMATION  READ ADOLF ARMBRUSTER(Romanitatea Romanilor).

Or( Romanian Foreign Sources on the Romanians).


                                                         PART II


                                           THE HISTORY OF GYPSY.



"The Gypsies of Eastern Europe" Editted by David Crowe and John Kolsti 
with an introduction by Ian Hancock.


"THE GYPSY HISTORICAL EXPERIENCE IN ROMANIA

In the long course of the Gypsy experience in Eastern Europe, none has 
been worse than that in Romania.
Within several centuries after Gypsies entered the medieval provinces of 
Wallachia and Moldavia, they began to be enslaved, a condition that 
lasted until the mid-nineteenth century.Although slavery was not a 
condition peculiar to Gypsies or the Balkans at the time, the deep-seated,
 dehumanizing prejudice that has characterized the historic Romanian 
relationship with Gypsies produced a socioeconomic caste system that 
resulted in the ‘social death' of Gypsies as Romanian slaves, and...Over 
the next century, Gypsy slavery became institutionalize in the Romanian 
Provinces...In the aftermath of his campaigns against the Ottoman Empire 
in northern Bulgaria in 1461-1462, the Wallachian ruler, Vlad Tepes(the 
Impaler), brought back 11,000-12,000 Gypsies(or Gypsy -like people ) to 
his capital where he tortured and killed some for his entertainment....
Stephen the Great (1457-1504), brought 17'000 Gypsies back from his 
campaigns in Wallachia in 1471 to use as slave labor.His move, however, 
simply strengthened a practice supported by law, which, for example, 
stated that any Moldavian that got a Gypsy pregnant and wanted to marry 
her would lose his status and have to become a slave. Later, ‘any 
Moldavian who married a gipsy himself joined the ranks of the robi' ".

                                           CONCLUSION:

READING PART I & PART II, IT IS EASY TO SEE WHY THE ROMANIANS &MOLDOVIANS 
DO NOT LIKE THE GYPSIES TO BE CALLED ROMANI.

The Byzantines writers never reefers to the GYPSIES as ROMANI, nobody did.
The name ROM, ROMY started to appear late at the beginning of the 20th. 
Century.The name of ROM comes from the Gypsies word DOM(probably a 
religious term). Now from DOM to ROMANI is a long way,and unacceptable to 
the Romanians for obvious reasons.

Albert Egorov.

In article >,  
says...
>
>T. Kocsis  > wrote:
>>
>>Ez erdekes kerdes. En furcsanak tartom, hogy egy ilyen gyorsan
>>fejlodo iparagban, mint szamitastechnika es programozas, kialakult
>>ez az irracionalis ragaszkodas a 7 bites kommunikaciohoz, meg az
>>ASCII-hez, ami az angolszasz nyelvet - es azt is hianyos betukesz-
>>lettel -erolteti olyan nyelvekre, amelyek lenyegesen tobb betuvel
>>rendelkeznek. Ezzel gyakorlatilag nyelvtanilag helytelen irasra keny-
>>szeriti az embert.
>
>Igen am, csak a problema ott van, hogy az ASCII kodkeszlet felso
>felenek (127 felett) a betukre valo kiosztasa sem egyseges.  Ha egyszer
>megegyeznenek abban, akkor ez nem lenne tobbe problema.  Aztan meg itt
>vannak a kulonbozo klaviaturak; en pl. nem igen szeretek olyan billentyu
>kombinaciokat hasznalni, mint Ctrl-Alt-o hogy kihozzam az o" betut, nem
>is beszelve ha annak nagybetus valtozatarol van szo.  Akkor mar inkabb
>beszereznek egy magyar rendszeru "key board"-ot, de itt az USA-ban
>ilyeneket nem igen latni.
>
>Pannon J.

Jozsi, ha Window 3.1 van, akkor igen konnyu mindenfajta ekezet (csak az 
e-mail-en nem jon ki).  Usd le az ekezetet es rogton utana a betut.  
Kesz! Ragyogoan mukodik magyar, nemet, spanyol, francia, vagy akarmilyen 
latin abc-re!

Udv. Agnes

Hello:

 i have a few Hungarian phrases all written out nicely--but being ignorant
of Hungarian pronunication, I have no idea how to say them!  Please email
if you are willing to help.  Thanks!

Bryan
-- 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another satisfied Aracnet user who  Aracnet -- Portland's loudest electrons
who hasn't edited their .signature  Ring +1 503 626.6873 V.34 (28800) 24hrs
,but might if you tell them. >=-)>  Browse http://www.aracnet.com for info!

Greg Kosinovsky wrote:
> 
>  (Maria Egorov) writes:
> 
> >ARE HUNGARIANS MONGOLS? (Revised Version)Version 3
> 
> >The Hungarians does not look any more Mongoloids for the same reasons the
> >Turks in Istanbul
> >look European.
> 
> >It is also true that the Hungarians of today look European.But their
> >roots are Mongolic.
> 
> >From Britannica :(Languages of the world)
> 
>  I omit the myriad of references because I find most of them similar and
> because my main point is about how to interpret them. They all make
> references to "Mongoloid" -- but Mongoloid does NOT mean "Mongol" -- as
> in being closely related to people of Chingiz Khan. It simply means
> "Oriental". Even this, however is misleading. The great stepps of Far
> East Asia has been a place where Mongoloid and Caucasoid races mixed
> for thousands of years. Thus, while "Mongols" looked very "Mongoloid"
> when their hordes crossed into the "Western world", Huns, apparently,
> did not -- they were very much mixed race. Similarly, the large group
> speaking Turkic languages, of which Magyars were one, spanned the
> spectrum from nearly "pure Mongoloid" to peoples with very Caucasoid
> features, even before some of the Turks crossed the Oxus. To be perfectly
> honest, I have no idea where the Magyars fit on the Turkic "racial
> spectrum", and I think it's a moot point which is not easily proven
> or disproven by historical references. One could guess, however, that
> even if their features looke fairly "European", their complection would
> not make them ideal candidates for Himmler's "pure race" breading camps.
> 
> Greg Kosinovsky

I think Kosinovsky offended many Hungarians by his statements.
AFAIK, Hungarian language is very similar to Finnish, which
proves that the two nations used to live as one nation a long
time ago. Do you, Kosinovsky, mean that Finnish people also
are descendands of turks? Unlike Bosnian language, Hungarian
doesn't have any words borrowed from Turkish, maybe just a few.

Hungarians are white people, not some turks. I speak a few words
of Estonian and Finnish and I did found similarities between
Finnish (Suomi) and Hungarian languages.

Vlad Petersen

-- 
         #include <disclaimer.h>
-=-=-=-=-=-
 -=-=-=Good pings come in small packets=-=-=-
        -Vancouver, British Columbia-

T. Kocsis  > wrote:

>Mazlim van, tegnap talaltam egy gorog adot, ahol
>az egesz sulyemelest kozvetitettek.

Milyen esellyel indul a 24 eves rokonod (Molnar Gabor) a
sulycsoportjaban?  

Engem a legjobban most az piszkal, hogy eddig semmi focit nem hozott le
az NBC, pedig mar volt az amiknak is meccsuk mindket nemben.
Latta valaki valahol a magyar-brazil meccset?  Persze talan jobb is,
hogy nem lattuk. ;-)  Ezek is jol kifogtak az elso ellenfelukkel!

A magyar tornaszokrol sem tudok semmit azon kivul, hogy Onodi gerenda
gyakorlatat lattam az elso nap.  Ahogy kommentaltak a TV-ben, ugy tunt,
mintha 21-22 evevel o lenne a legidosebb tornaszno.  Jol nezunk ki!
Egyebkent Henni valoban jol nezett ki! ;-)  Meg a magyar nyelvu
bekiabalasait is lehetett hallani a fiatalabb tornasztarsai iranyaban.
Gyerekek, miben varhatunk meg ermeket, ha Egerszegi is csak alig
szerezte meg a bronzot a 400-as vegyesben? 

>Az egyik magyar versenyzonek igen furcsa magyar
>neve volt: Adrean Popa. Tud valaki tobbet rola ?

Biztos roman a pasas.
>
>Ja, nemcsak nekunk, hanem a nemeteknek sem ugy
>alakul az uszas, ahogy elkepzeltek. Eddig nekik
>sincs aranyuk, pedig biztosak voltak egy-kettoben.
>Nagy ott is a szomorusag.

Mi az?  Kioregedtek az NDK-bol orokolt uszoik?

PJ

Peter Szaszvari > wrote:
>
>Talan ebben tudok segiteni. Egy haveromnak irtam egy programot ami lehetove 
>teszi hogy, tetszolegesen atprogramozd a billentyuzetet. Tetszoleges szamu 
>virtualis keyboardot hozhatsz letre, es mindegyikben mas betuhozzarendeleseket
 
>ha akarsz.
>
>Sajnos mindez Windows 3.x es Windows 95 alatt mukodik (Mackintosh hatranyban).

Thanks, but no thanks, de a Windows kimondottan utalom, bar a 95-ot
hasznalom a Web surfelesre.  A 3.1-en mar nekem is volt olyan programom,
amivel aranylag konnyen lehetett beutni a magyar betuket (bar ahhoz is
kombinaciokat kellett hasznalni.  Sajnos azonban a Windows altal
hasznalt ASCII kiosztas nem egeszen ugyanaz, mint amit egy Unix gepen is
el tudsz olvasni egy X/Motif feluleten futo programmal.  Nem is beszelve
egy DOS alapu terminal szimulaloval, mint amilyen a ProComm Plus.

>A 2.0 verzio tamogatja a dead-key kombinaciokat is. A program nagyszeru es 
>egyszeru kezelni. (Csak zarojelben jegyzem meg, hogy szabadidomben programozo 
>geniusz vagyok)

En is, bar nem a Windows-on! ;-)

Jozsi

In article >,  () says:
>
>In article >, Mpflerr > wrote
:
>>
>>Igazad van, ez is lehet - - bar en mar regen megtanultam, hogy fontos
>>objektivnek lenni es probalom ezt gyakorolni. Nem mindig sikerul azonban.
>
>Helyesebben: csak ritkan sikerul.
Nincsen eleg informaciod ahhoz, hogy ezt a megallapitasd tedd.

>>Az hogy NPA cikkei engem felhaboritanak es hogy azt tartom hogy 
>>horpadt uvegen keresztul nezi az emberiseget es a vilagot - az egy privat
>>dolog.
>
>Akkor tartsd meg magadnak.
Kette valasztottad a paragraf-ot es igy mas ertelme van.

>>Privat addig, amig senkinek sem okoz kart. 
>Neki sem?
En karosnak tartottam NPA cikkeit. Ezzel egyutt en soha sem tettem
volna ellene feljelentest. Amint mar elozoleg mondtam en hiszek abban
hogy "what goes around, comes around". 
>
>>>Egyebkent alig hiheto el rola, hogy mar ugyis vaj volt a fejen, amikor
>>>epp elotte kapott elismerest jo munkajaert.
>>Well, who knows? Az igazsag az, hogy mindenki spekulal es senki sem tud
>>semmi konkretat, ha csak te nem.
>
>Ha meg nem tudsz, akkor milyen alapon hinted el a gyanusitgatast, hogy
>hazudik?
En nem "hintettem el gyanusitast" hanem hozza szoltam egy nyilvanosan targyalt
ugyhoz. Mar annal tobb gyanusitast hintenni nem lehet, akkar jobbrol,
akar balrol, ami eddig le lett irva.

(snip...)
>veled megteszem.  Nem is beszelve arrol, hogy nem szivesen levelezek
>olyan valakivel, aki abban az elonyben van velem szemben, hogy o tudja
>az en nevemet, en meg nem tudom az ovet.
Kerlek szepen! Ez ertheto. Ellenben honnan tudom en hogy a Te neved
"igazi"? Az en teljes nevem Marina Erdo"s Pflieger. Amikor "ujabb" voltam
a group-on nem mertem beirni a nevemet ket okbol. Egy: Ovatos akartam
lenni, nekem ez egy nagyon uj experience volt. Ketto: Amikor kezdtem
ismerosebb lenni, nagyon sok banto cikket olvastam es el voltam
ajulva, hogy ilyen is van. Elismerem, hogy ez naivitas volt. Aztan
voltak olyanok akik azt spekulaltak, hogy en ferfi vagyok, stb.,
Most mar megszoktam a tonust es mivel sajnos nincs magyar korulottem
a minden napi eletemben, nagyon orulok hogy van a group. Ennyi ebbol
eleg. Joe, oszinten beszelek, legyszives ne legyel rosszmaju. Thanks!:))
 
>>Meg kell hogy valljam Nektek, hogy az elmult 39 evben talan ha 10 levelet
>>irtam magyarul akkor sokat mondok. Rettenetes nehezemre esett elosszor,
>>furcsan neztek ki a leirott szavak. Bocsanat ha sok a hiba. 
>
>No problem!  Ez a forum mar ugyis arrol kezd hires lenni, hogy kezdeti
>rossz magyarsaggal irok csodalatos gyorsasaggal valtoznak szepirokka. ;-)
>S szegeny Lorincze Lajos ezt mar nem elhette meg!
Ehhez szeretnem hozza tenni,hogy Aprilis ota valakivel levelezem magyarul
es fantasztikus, hogy "felszabadultam", kezdenek "aradni" a szavak.

Marina

>Pannon J.

Hello Szevasztok!

		Nem =E9rtem pontosan, hogy m=FCk=F6dik ez a dolog! M=E1rmint a vitaf=F3=
rum!
Elk=FCldtem egy =E9szrev=E9telt a Tam=E1s G=E1sp=E1r cikkel kapcsolatban,=
 Ti=20
visszajelezt=E9tek, hogy megkapt=E1tok =E9s k=E9rt=E9tek, ha jav=EDt=E1s =
akarok=20
v=E1ltoztassam meg. =C9n visszakuuldtem v=E1ltozatlanul. Az a k=E9rd=E9se=
m mi=20
t=F6rt=E9nik tov=E1bb? Ugyanis nem tal=E1lom a Szalon-ban az =EDr=E1somat=
!=20
Amennyiben nem ker=FCl be a vitaf=F3rumba =FAgy k=E9rem =E9rtes=EDtsetek.

																											K=F6sz=F6nettel: William Kosaras, Toronto

In article > Maria Egorov,
 writes:
>The Byzantines writers never reefers to the GYPSIES as ROMANI

I've seen a swimmer in  Slovak colours. She looked Romani, unfor-
tunately I don't remember her name and the event she took in part.
Usualy there used to be several Romani sportsmen in the Hungarian
boxing team.  Wally, do you know of more of them, maybe ?

Tamas

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
| In article > , 
| writes:


Mi lett az uszokkal? Annyit lattunk hogy Egerszegi egy
bronzot kapott a vegyesen, de a noi haton nem is
indult. Guttlertol lattunk egy negyedik helyzest, de ezen
kivul egyetlen magyar uszot sem lattunk... Mi tortent?

Istvan

In article > Istvan Szucs,
 writes:
>Mi lett az uszokkal? Annyit lattunk hogy Egerszegi egy
>bronzot kapott a vegyesen, de a noi haton nem is
>indult.

Mert meg nem volt a 200 hat. Az olimpiai honlap szerint
400 vegyesen, 200 haton es 4 * 100 haton indul.

>Guttlertol lattunk egy negyedik helyzest, de ezen
>kivul egyetlen magyar uszot sem lattunk... Mi tortent?

Azert volt egy ketto magyar, hogy csak Kovacs Agnest em-
litsem. Sajnos foleg a B-dontoben. 

Aki nagyon hianyzik az Darnyi, en nem is tudtam, hogy
nem indul az olimpian, de most csinaltam egy keresest,
es nincs az indulok kozott. Tehat  a magyar csapat ket
sztarja, eremgyarosa kioregedett vagy beleunt az uszas-
ba, ezert nincs eredmeny. Sajnos ugy tunik, nincs hozza-
juk merheto utanpotlas, ami nem meglepo, hiszen igen
kicsi a bazis, amibol valasztani lehet. Ezert az is inkabb
a csodak koze sorolhato, hogy egyszerre ketto ilyen ki-
valo, tehetseges uszonk volt.

Tamas

Kedves Tamas (Kocsis); Irod...

>A kilepes szerintem sem volt egy okos lepes, ismerve NPA hajla-
>mat a politizalasra, en inkabb a kirugasos variaciot valasztottam
>volna, azaz dupla vagy semmit jatszottam volna. 

Itt nem volt dupla vagy semmi. Ha tovabb erolkodom, akkor semmi vagy
semmi lett volna. Vagyis kirugas eseten  nincs  munkanelkuli segely.
Mellesleg a szakszervezet kepviseloje kijelentette, hogy vagy alairom
a kilepest, vagy meg ket oran keresztul mutogatjak cikkeimet es kirug-
nak. Ket oran keresztul host jatszani? Arra raerek kesobb a penz fel-
vetele utan is. :-) 

>De en csak 32 eves vagyok, tavol a nyugdijtol, anyagi es letbiztonsagi 
>megfontolasok>kevesbe vezetnek. NPA, ha jol kalkulalom negyvenes evei 
>vegen, otvenes evei elejen jarhat. 

Igazad van a letbiztonsag tenyezo. De az Isten szerelmere ne oregitsel 
mar ennyi ember elott. :-)

>Egy megallapodott ember eletebe barmoltak bele, jo alaposan. El tudom 
>fogadni, hogy a pillanatnyi anyagi biztonsagot (munkanelkuli segely) 
>fontosabbnak tartotta, mint a konfliktus teljes mellszelesseggel valo 
>felvallalasat.  

Nos en a konfliktust felvallaltam teljes mellbedobassal, de alairtam 
azt ami pillanatnyi tuzszunetet jelentett csak reszemrol. Mint irtam 
mar korabban, az ugy reszemrol nincs meg lezarva. Kulonben  koszonom 
neked Tamas a parbeszedet.

NPA.

Tulajdonkeppen nem ertek valamit.
Miert kell egyeseknek olyan cinikusan nezni a dolgot:
kivancsi lennek, ha oket rugnak ki hasonlo korulmenyek
kozott akkor mit tennenek.
Fuggetlenul attol kinek mi a velemenye N. P. Andras
FORUMon kifejtett allaspontjarol, ot azert kirugattak.
Ha valakit a velemenyeert, meggyozodeseert
ilyen sors erheti, (azaz kirugathatnak) ott komoly baj van.

Hat igen, a nagy gozos 'demokracia/szabadsag' mogott igenis van egy
rejtett reteg, egy nem leirott 'torveny' halozata.
A legtobbunk erzi, tudja mi a hatar amit lehet vagy nem lehet
mondani.  Ebben, ami azt illeti, a hasonlosag az 'atkos-beli'
helyzettel elegge megdobbento.
    Revesz Peter
    

Kedves Jozsi (Pannon); Irod Szaszvari-nak...

>Azert a pofatlansagnak is van hatara!  Az ilyen megjegyzesek erosen
>megkerdojelezik azt az allitasodat, hogy te sem helyesled az NPA elleni
>besugast.  Ez az ugy nem azert tartozik ide, mert Peter elvesztette az
>allasat, hanem azert a piszoksagert, ahogy azt elvesztette!  Ezek a
>patkanyok nagyon is megerdemlik nevuk kozzetetelet, megha hivatalosan
>nem is perelhetok.  

Nezd az egyertelmu, hogy Szaszvari provokal  csakugy, mint azon kollegaja
aki a Forumon utotte fel tanyajat azonos frequencian mocskolodva. 
Szaszvari nagyon jol tudja, hogy itt nem egy szemelyrol, esetemben rollam
van szo, hanem egy aljas eljarasrol. De vagy az erthetetlent adja, vagy 
megmagyarazni igyekszik a megmagyarazhatatlant. Ez persze nagyon jo, mert
igy egy komoly tomeg elott leplezi le magat az az alliberalis bagazs, amely 
toleranciat papol, de vagy feljelentget, vagy tapsol, aszisztal hozza!
Kulonben  azon patkanyok akiket emlitettel, hivatalosan perelhetok, es 
ez egy elkepzelheto opcio. :-)

>Abbol, ahogy sunyin hallgatnak rola, nyilvan ok is tudjak, hogy szemetseget 
>csinaltak. No de ahogy az ilyesmi lenni szokott, elobb-utobb valaki, aki tud 
>az ugyrol, elszolja magat.  

Mar elszolta magat, mint azt Te is tudod. ;-) De az elszolast hivatalosan kell 
bizonyitani. Ez jon most. Hogy halgatnak? Hat persze, mert egyreszt nagyon 
gyava a feljelentgeto, masreszt csak alneven oly bator, hogy aktivan lep az
ellen akinek irasai neki(k) nem tetszik.

>Mar pedig abban biztos vagyok, hogy egy kb. 5-6-tagu csoport tud errol, s 
>az akciot elore le is egyeztettek.  Valoszinunek tartom azt is, 
>hogy munkabeosztassal csinaltak; volt aki kinyomozta kiknek kell irni, s 
>volt aki megfogalmazta a feljelentest.  Az ilyen csoportokban 
>elobb-utobb ugyis osszekoccanasok lesznek, s a sertett fel majd bosszubol 
>elkopi az akcio reszleteit.

Csak csodalni tudom ragyogo megerzeseidet. Nos kb. ennyien voltak a fokolom-
posok es mar megindult kozottuk az erjedes. Igy egyikojuk mar csacsogott. De 
mint irtam, a bizonyitas meg ennek ellenere is nehezkesen akar megszuletni, 
de miutan turelem besugokat terem, hat nincs ok a kapkodasra. ;-)

>Egyebkent akkor, amikor megirtam a "Tippeljunk!" c. cikkemet Karesz
>stilusanak azonositasara, nekem is elsonek Fencsik jutott eszembe anelkul,
>hogy tudtam volna melyik cimrol hasznalta azt a c2.org nevtelenito
>szervert.  Miutan NPA azt is felfedezte, utana biztos voltam.  Ugyanis 
>"Karesz" gunyolodo cikkeinek stilusa "vintage Fencsik" volt!  Szinte egy
>az egyben igy irt a HUNGARY listan is Pellioniszrol.  Meg kell adni, a
>sunyinak igazi iroi venaja van, csak kar, hogy abban vitriol folyik.

Na erre utaltam par sorral feljebb, amikor jo megerzesedet dicsertem. Nemhogy 
Karesz vintage Fencsik volt, de ugyanaz a Fencsik aki munkahelyerol irt a 
Hungaryba jellemzest szemelyemrol, valahogy igy: "nazi scumbag"
Kivancsi vagyok, hogy csapata aki nagyon ellene van a munkaido helytelen ki-
hasznalasanak, feljelentik Ot is, ott a SBE, Inc. -nel?

Persze kivancsi lennek, hogy az O otlete volt a "whisle Blower Hotline" hasz-
nalata vagy mase? Majd kiderul.....

NPA.

NICOLE E LEMLEY wrote:
> ... I recall when i saw the film "The
> Music Box" with Jessica Lange -- she was Hungarian-American and she was in
> a resturant drinking some sort of special Hungarian wine ...

There are several types of Hungarian wine that I know of that you'll find 
almost nowhere else. One is Szekszard Kekfrankos (tried it for the first time
this year, and really enjoyed it. Then there's Egri Bikaver, or "Bull's Blood"
from Eger, so named because of the very rich red/purple color, excellent
if you like full-bodied reds. And then Tokaj, which is too sweet for my
taste, but if you light very sweet German wines (eg, Auslese or Beerenauslese)
quite good.

I watched the start of Music Box in order to see the dancing scene, which
included Okros Csaba ("Csabi") as primas, and members of his group (can't
remember whether Door Robert was there). Ms. Lange did a serviceable
Mezosegi csardas.

In article >,
T. Kocsis  > wrote:
| In article > Istvan Szucs,
|  writes:
| >Mi lett az uszokkal? Annyit lattunk hogy Egerszegi egy
| >bronzot kapott a vegyesen, de a noi haton nem is
| >indult.
| 
| Mert meg nem volt a 200 hat. Az olimpiai honlap szerint
| 400 vegyesen, 200 haton es 4 * 100 haton indul.


200 noi hat mar volt tegnapelott este!
Es sehol Egerszegi valami amcsi csaj nyert. 
Mikor lesz a 4x100 hat?

Szucs irja:

>rengetegszer4 leelftarsaztal, annak ellenere hogy sokszor
>eliteltem azt amit NPA val csinaltak, mind modszereben mind
>celjaban, mind eszmejeben. Ezert lenne fontos hogy egy
>kicsit pontosabban fogalmazz, vagy ne csodalkozz ha teged is
>lenaciznak (hozzateszem hogy szerintem  hlytelenul).

Ez hirtelen meglepett es bevallom szegyenszemre olyan egyertelmu 
vedelemre nem emlekszem.  Talan  kernek peldat, hogy  lathassam,
hogy jo baratok arnyakaban mormolom  csak  a  magam hulyesegeit.

NPA.

In article >,
Peter A. Nemenyi > wrote:
| Szucs Irja:
| 
| >Nem hiszem hogy az amerikai  igazsagszolgaltatas  az  ADL
| >rabja lenne. Erre rengeteg ellenpelda van, peldarol pedig
| >gyakorlatilag nem is tudok. Talan emlits nehanmyat.
| 
| Ha jol emlekszem Gen. Albert Pike szobra  aki a   Ku Klux Klan
| Grand Dragon-ja volt (Susan :Lawrence Davis: Authentic History,
| Ku Klux Klan)
| meg mindig ott all a Judiciary teren WashigtonD.C.-ben. Volt is 
| ebbol nagy tuntetes es Rev. James Bevel  ha jol emlekszem megva-
| dolta az ADL.-t, hogy a Councilman William Lightfoot sponzoralt 
| kerelmet President Clinton fele, politikai nyomas  reven megsem-
| misitette.  A  kerelem a szobor eltavolitasat  kerte  az  elnok-
| tol.

Hehehe az Anti Defamation League (B'nai Brith?)  a Ku Klux
Klan grand dragonje szobranak eltavolitasa ellen volt?
Miota vannak a zsidok ilyen joban az oket is lincselo
KKKval?

Istvan

Szucs Irja:

>Nem hiszem hogy az amerikai  igazsagszolgaltatas  az  ADL
>rabja lenne. Erre rengeteg ellenpelda van, peldarol pedig
>gyakorlatilag nem is tudok. Talan emlits nehanmyat.

Ha jol emlekszem Gen. Albert Pike szobra  aki a   Ku Klux Klan
Grand Dragon-ja volt (Susan :Lawrence Davis: Authentic History,
Ku Klux Klan)
meg mindig ott all a Judiciary teren WashigtonD.C.-ben. Volt is 
ebbol nagy tuntetes es Rev. James Bevel  ha jol emlekszem megva-
dolta az ADL.-t, hogy a Councilman William Lightfoot sponzoralt 
kerelmet President Clinton fele, politikai nyomas  reven megsem-
misitette.  A  kerelem a szobor eltavolitasat  kerte  az  elnok-
tol.
Nos a szobor all, mi meg vitazunk. :-) Meg lenne itt meg egy bo
szatyorral, ennel jobb peldak is, dehat van  nekem eleg  bajom 
igy is. ;-)  ;-) Ugye ertjuk?

NPA.

Ui: A fenti keres termeszetesen provokacio, igy  Jozsinak  azt 
uzenem, hogy kerulje ki jo nagy ivben!

In article >,
Peter A. Nemenyi > wrote:
| Szucs irja:
| 
| >rengetegszer4 leelftarsaztal, annak ellenere hogy sokszor
| >eliteltem azt amit NPA val csinaltak, mind modszereben mind
| >celjaban, mind eszmejeben. Ezert lenne fontos hogy egy
| >kicsit pontosabban fogalmazz, vagy ne csodalkozz ha teged is
| >lenaciznak (hozzateszem hogy szerintem  hlytelenul).
| 
| Ez hirtelen meglepett es bevallom szegyenszemre olyan egyertelmu 
| vedelemre nem emlekszem.  Talan  kernek peldat, hogy  lathassam,
| hogy jo baratok arnyakaban mormolom  csak  a  magam hulyesegeit.
| 
| NPA.

Bocs, de tenyuleg nem ertem mire nem emlekszel. Arra hogy
nyilvanosan eliteltem a feljelentoidet? Hogy maganlevelben
felajanlottam hogy alairok nylatkozatot? Ezek nyilvanos
resze a forumban megjelent a maganleveleket is
elokereshetem...

Istavn

Reves Peter irja:

>Hat igen, a nagy gozos 'demokracia/szabadsag' mogott igenis van egy
>rejtett reteg, egy nem leirott 'torveny' halozata.
>A legtobbunk erzi, tudja mi a hatar amit lehet vagy nem lehet
>mondani.  Ebben, ami azt illeti, a hasonlosag az 'atkos-beli'
>helyzettel elegge megdobbento.

Igen, ez azert van foleg, mert mindenki hasra esik magatol a demokracia
szotol, nem torodven, hogy mi rejlik annak allagaban. Ugy hiszem meger-
ne egy miset az ugyn. demokracia kielemzese. Persze  ez  politikai vita 
lenne es akkor mi maradna a szemelyessegi sargyurasnak? 

Peter dobbenetet eleinte magam is ateltem, de a tortenelmi parhuzamok 
jobb megismerese utan, csak azon tunodom, hogy eddig miert nem volt ez
erthetobb szamomra es sokunk szamara. Mikozben azon erolkodunk, hogy 
mindenkit a jobb es bal szegletbe csoportositsunk, elfeledkezunk arrol,
hogy eredoen az ilyen csoportositasok semmit sem jelentenek. Mert hi-
szen a nemet nemzet szocializmus is balos part volt, mig otven even 
keresztul annak legnagyobb biraloja es eliteloje a kommunizmus maga is
ugyanabban a sarokbol masirozott eletunkbe. Talan itt lenne az ideje, 
hogy kicsit kimereszkedve ezen sarkokbol a kituzott celokat is megvizs-
galjuk, nehogy kideruljon, hogy az a demokracia ami elott hajlongunk
csak neveben igeri az egyenloseget, testveriseget es mindenki elotti 
egyenlo torvenykezest.

NPA.

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Peter A. Nemenyi > wrote:

>megmagyarazni igyekszik a megmagyarazhatatlant. Ez persze nagyon jo, mert
>igy egy komoly tomeg elott leplezi le magat az az alliberalis bagazs, amely 
>toleranciat papol, de vagy feljelentget, vagy tapsol, aszisztal hozza!

"Nem adhat mast, mint ami lenyege."

>Karesz vintage Fencsik volt, de ugyanaz a Fencsik aki munkahelyerol irt a 
>Hungaryba jellemzest szemelyemrol, valahogy igy: "nazi scumbag"

Nem Kornai irta azt?  No mindegy, ... same difference ...

>Persze kivancsi lennek, hogy az O otlete volt a "whisle Blower Hotline" hasz-
>nalata vagy mase? Majd kiderul.....

Ennek ismerete olyan valakit feltetelez, aki mar regen itt lakik, s jol
ismeros az itteni belpolitikaval.  Kb. 3-an kvalifikalnak erre az
altalam sejtett csoportban.  Azert en a helyedben megprobalkoznek a FOI
proceduraval is.  Ezt az amerikai Bal nagy sikerrel hasznalta azelott.
Ideje lenne mar a Jobb oldalnak is elni ezzel a lehetoseggel.

Oh, es meg valami mas ...
Az a "pornoterjesztes" vad olyan bizarrnak tunt a te esetedben, hogy
sokszor elgondolkoztam mi lehetett a celja a feljelentoidnek ezzel a
nyilvanvalo abszurdummal.  A dolog lehetseges nyitja akkor otlott fel
bennem, amikor valaki mastol, akit szinten hozzad hasonlo tamadasok
ertek a multban, kaptam egy eleg ketsegbeesett hangu privat levelet.
Ebben az illeto tanacsot kert arra, hogy hogyan razzon le egy "aol"-rol
iro, ismeretlen illetot, aki keretlenul kuldogetett neki bestialis
("snuff") porno cikkeket.  Egy ilyen cikket mellekelt is leveleben, s
mondhatom, hogy ilyen ocsmany dolgot meg nem olvastam eddig sehol.
Ugy latszik a segelykero hiaba probalkozott ennek leallitasaval az
aol.com postamesterenel.

Ekkor "gyulladt fel a villany" a fejemben!  Mindjart arra kellett
gondolnom, hogy ez ellen a srac ellen is feljelentes ment, amiben a
pornoterjesztes vadja biztos szerepel.  Egy audit valoszinuleg
megtalalna a nyomat annak a porno cikknek az illeto accountjan, s ki
tudja alkalma lenne-e az illetonek megmagyaraznia, hogy o egy egyszeru
"kabatlopasi" trukknek az aldozata.  Ezert kell kerdeznem toled is,
Peter, hogy nem kaptal-e te is valami keretlen porno anyagot egy
ismeretlen cimtol mielott feljelentettek.

PJ

Following NPA's latest dark hints I actually took the trouble to call the
Human Resources manager at Argonne. She wouldn't comment on the rumor that
NPA's supervisor was laid off, or tell me who that person was. So unless NPA
shares this piece of information, we will never have an authoritative second
opinion on the extent of the causes that led to NPA's resignation. As to
whether this resignation was coerced, the HR manager said "believe me, we
don't have handcuffs at Argonne".

I also asked her about what seems to many as excessive zeal, saying that in
most places an incident like this would first lead to a verbal reprimand (or
perhaps a written warning placed on his record) but not to immediate
resignation. Her answer was that for the first incident this would be true at
Argonne as well.  Needless to say, she couldn't and wouldn't tell me whether
there were prior incidents -- readers must draw their own conclusions.

Joe Pannon's amusing theories about the Anti-Defamation League notwithstanding
NPA could go ahead and sue the union for failure to represent him, or even sue
Argonne. However, NPA's reluctance to provide any avenues for independent
confirmation of his story for those who are a bit skeptical ("Joe Pannon has
seen my proofs" just doesn't cut it, sorry) indicates that the story, even to
the extent it's true, has some serious holes.

In the US system of justice, which NPA managed to cast in a rather negative
light on Hungarian Radio, there is such a thing as a "discovery phase". If I
were a lawyer for the ADL the first thing I'd look at would be NPA's record at
Argonne. As someone on s.c.m suggested the other day, NPA could have already
had "some butter on his head" before this whole thing started, even if he was
cited for good work. 

Fortunately, I'm no ADL lawyer and I don't have to subpoena Argonne's records
on NPA, hear the testimony of his supervisor, or in any way try to get to the
bottom of this.  With this phonecall to Argonne I figure I've done my civic
duty and satisfied myself that NPA has not been denied due process. So back to
more substantive issues, like how Karl Marx was at the root of the 1848
revolution...

Andra1s Kornai

I love this!

>ROMANIA FEARS NATO BASES IN HUNGARY. Defense Minister Gheorghe Tinca
>said in an interview with the Hungarian daily Magyar Nemzet that his
>country fears that the setting up of NATO bases on Hungarian territory
>might encourage "Hungarian extremist forces," the daily Evenimentul
>zilei reported on 24 July. Tinca said these forces might believe the
>NATO presence would make it possible for them to achieve "their decades-
>long dream" of "recuperating Transylvania." -- Michael Shafir

I wonder if this Tinca fellow was an English teacher in his previous
life.  But in a way, he is right!  I am, too, for recuperating
Transylvania!

Panonescu

Maria Egorov > wrote:
>My limited time forced me to ignore spelling. 

Why not ignore writing as well?

Panonescu

In article >,  (ANTONIO
ALEXANDRE SILVA OLIVEIRA(leic)) wrote:

Hi, here is a Mongolian version:

"Bi chamd hairtai"

I hope no body thinks that these "nomadic" people do not fall in love.

Bayar.

In article > Douglas C. Stevens,
 writes:
>And then Tokaj, which is too sweet for my taste,

Try the dry Tokaji Szamorodni. It is the only white wine I like,
it's like a red wine.. :-)

Tamas

In article >,  () says:
>
>In article >, sodrem > wrote:

>Te legalabb olyan partosan irsz itt, mint en.

Ez tagadhatatlan. Sok mindenben ellenvelemenyem van Veled, de az biztos
hogy te megirod amit gondolsz es ezt respectalom. Az en velemenyem ami
az emberiseget es a vilagot illeti sajat elettapasztalataimra van alapitva.
Gondolom ez a legtobb emberre vonatkozik, - - de nem mindenkire! [Ez nem
Neked szol!!]
 
>>En karosnak tartottam NPA cikkeit. 
>
>Hat ennek a kijelentesnek elegge partvonalas ize van.  Egy kicsit tulzas
>a neked nem tetszo cikkeket "karosnak" tekinteni. 

Joe, meg kell ezt magyaraznom Neked jobban,hala Istennek Te ezt nem
erted! Gondolom az elet megkimelt Teged es a csaladodat az uldoztetestol.
Az Edesapam kozeli csaladjaban 17 szemely pusztult el. Az Edesanyam
csaladjaban 12. Tudomasom szerint a 29 kozeli csaladtagokbol kettot
belelottek a Dunaba, amikor a harmadik ezt megtudta felakasztotta magat.
A tobbi 26 ele'gett vagy agyon lotek. Az Apam kiszedte a vagon padlozat
deszkait amig orakig alltak bezarva es kimaszott a vonat alatt a sinek
kozott. Egy magyar csendor aki elkapta, ismerte a nagyapamat es elengedte.
Aztan bujkalt. Anyam bujkalt. Testverem es en mint arva gyerekek
Ormospusztan voltunk egy csaladnal ahol en 7 eves koromban mosogattam
es tejet hordtam ki es gombat szedtem az erdoben. Kesobb egy banya
melyeben bujkaltunk a testveremmel es egy diszno ol-ban is. 
Ezer meg ezer storyk vannak, mind igaz, - - Tehat NPA cikkei karosak
mert bantanak [nem csak engem!], mert rosszindulatuan hazudik, mert
"divison"-t okoz. En magyar vagyok ma is, faj ha arra gondolok, hogy a
csaladunk minden tagja milyen buszke nagy magyar volt. Volt koztuk
gazda,foldbirtokos,malmos,zenetanar,pek,bor kereskedo,festo muvesz,
ugyved,postamester,tegla munkas es kis gyerekek.

Remelem, hogy sikerult egy kicsit megmagyarazni, hogy en honnan
indulok ki. I feel very vulnarable after this, but I had to write it down.
Koszonom, hogy figyelemmel elolvastad. Most ezzel be is fejeztem
reszemrol az NPA-val foglalkozni. Csak Neked szerettem volna 
kicsit jobban kiterni arra, hogy mi is az amire utaltam es hogy
bizonyosan nem en vagyok az egyetlen! Meg annyit, hogy sokan fel vannak
akadva a "szamokon", hogy nem igaz, hogy ennyi ember halt meg, stb.
My "pet peeve" is: hogy bizony kb. 6M zsido elpusztult, -- 
DE ezen kivul kb., 3M kereszteny is el lett teve lab allol azert
mert vagy homo volt, vagy mert cigany, rokkant, elmebeteg, zsido-
barat, zsido ferje, felesege, - - es sok pap. Errol senki sem beszel
sokat!

Marina.

In article >,  > wrote:
>I love this!
>
>>ROMANIA FEARS NATO BASES IN HUNGARY. Defense Minister Gheorghe Tinca
>>said in an interview with the Hungarian daily Magyar Nemzet that his
>>country fears that the setting up of NATO bases on Hungarian territory
>>might encourage "Hungarian extremist forces," the daily Evenimentul
>>zilei reported on 24 July. Tinca said these forces might believe the
>>NATO presence would make it possible for them to achieve "their decades-
>>long dream" of "recuperating Transylvania." -- Michael Shafir
>
>I wonder if this Tinca fellow was an English teacher in his previous
>life.  But in a way, he is right!  I am, too, for recuperating
>Transylvania!
>
>Panonescu

Recuperating would be great! However Erdely is in such a bad shape, that if the
Rumanian government really wanted to screw Hungary up, they would just hand it 
back on a silver plate. The Hungarian economy (which is as shaky as it can get)
would go belly up within 48 hours. So dear neighbours, here is your chance: If 
you want to punish us for half century of irredentism, give Erdely back to us!
:-)
GK

In article >,
Hans-Henrik T. Ohlsen > wrote:
| Iain Walker wrote:
| 
| > I think you're forgetting some basic definitions here.  Military action
| > carried out BY the United States is called "tactical strike",
| > "peacekeeping", "restoration of authority", or (yes) "war"; military
| > action carried out AGAINST the United States is called "terrorism".
| 
| The definition of military action the way I usually see it defined
| requires the warring parties to wear a uniform when doing so. I have yet
| to see any acceptance of using eg. jeans and a T-shirt as a legitimate
| uniform. The least acceptable in that connection is using an arm band
| with the colors and/or symbol of those you fight for. It's when somebody
| "fight" covertly that it's usually termed terrorism, especially when the
| victims of such "fights" are innocent civilians.
| 
| Regards,
| 
| Hans-Henrik
| 
| -- 
| mailto:        http://www.DK.net/studenterforeningen/ht/
|                      Telefax: +45 33 33 80 85

It is also 1) directed in its target2) precedes a declaration of war by a
gov't - so the original article is just plain bullshit.

Istvan Szucs wrote:

> Pro death?
> Whose death are they for?

Death of unborn children.

-- 

---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---



---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole, 
and separately, in each country, each government, each 
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my 
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society 
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a 
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---

Archive-name: hungarian/pointer
Soc-culture-magyar-archive-name: pointer
Bit-listserv-hungary-archive-name: pointer
Version: 0.90 (beta)
Posting-Frequency: monthly
Last-modified: 1995/11/21
URL: http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/hungarian-faq-pointer

 This document summarizes network-related resources of Hungarian
interest, which are accessible via email. Some of the most readily
available sources of information can be found in the archives of
periodical information postings to Usenet; these documents are commonly
known as FAQs (from Frequently Asked/Answered Questions). Knowing the
name of the file you can retrieve it by sending email to
 with the command "send
usenet/news.answers/<ARCHIVE-NAME>" in the message (without the quotes,
and with substituting the actual name for <ARCHIVE-NAME> in the pattern
shown above) - for example, to get the document described below, use

 send usenet/news.answers/hungarian-faq

 To learn more about the RTFM server just send the command "help" to it
- it will provide step-by-step intstructions on how to use the
archives, on retrieving indexes and so on.

 "Hungarian electronic resources FAQ" is a comprehensive collection
dealing with email, FTP, WWW and other Internet tools; its archive name
is 'hungarian-faq' (and the mail-server command to get it is shown in
the example above).
 If you only have direct access to email then, in order to use the
other tools, you'll need the methods described in "Accessing The
Internet By E-Mail" (Archive-name:
internet-services/access-via-email).
 To get a general introduction to Usenet (with some guides to Internet
as well - and explanation of how they are different, too) see "Welcome
to news.newusers.questions!" (Archive-name: news-newusers-intro).
 For a guide to finding someone's e-mail addresses, see the "FAQ: How
to find people's E-mail addresses" (Archive-name: finding-addresses).
Do notice that it's usually inappropriate to send such blanket requests
to mailing lists; the search tools available give much better chance to
locate addresses sought than posted queries in any case!
 An overview of commercial on-line services in Hungary is available by 
John Horvath > 
(Archive-name: hungarian/comm-providers).

 The hungarian-faq describes several email lists related to Hungary;
only a brief summary is shown here. Please keep in mind that
subscription requests (and other administrative communications) should
be directed to the server address, NOT to the lists themselves.

Server: 
 List:  (the HUNGARY LISTSERV list)

Server: 
 List: HOL (Hungary Online)

Server: 
 List: hungary-report

Server: 
 Lists: OMRI-L (Open Media Research Institute Daily Digest)
        MIDEUR-L (Middle European discussion list)

Server: 
 List: cet-online (Central Europe Today On-Line; email )

Server: 
 List: CERRO-L (Central European Regional Research Organization)

Server: email to  (Hollosi Information Exchange)
 Lists: HIX is a collection of several separate lists, including
  - MOZAIK, a collection of news items in English
  - various discussion forums in Hungarian language
  - SCM and HUNGROUPS, which are email-accessible archives of the Usenet
    newsgroup soc.culture.magyar and the hun.* national hierarchy,
    respectively; to get a directory listing of these archives (as well
    as that of other HIX lists), send email to  with
    "arch" in the 'Subject:' line. Note that the SENDDOC utility takes
    its parameter from the 'Subject:' of the message (unlike many other
    servers, like the ones described previously, which use the body)!

 Note that this document is available on the
 <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>; homepage for the "Hungarian
electronic resources FAQ" at the HIX WWW-server.
 The latter also provides access for the full FAQ via 
 'finger ', and for this brief pointer you are
reading via 'finger ' (notice that you
will likely need to redirect the output to a pager or a file in order
to read it). The Usenet archive name for this document is
 hungarian/pointer .

--
 Zoli , keeper of <http://hix.mit.edu/hungarian-faq/>;
 <'finger '> 
 NOTE: spamsters and bulk emailers see 'X-Policy*:' in the 
header for the charges to be imposed for net abuse!

=BORG= > writes:

>I think Kosinovsky offended many Hungarians by his statements.
>AFAIK, Hungarian language is very similar to Finnish, which
>proves that the two nations used to live as one nation a long
>time ago. Do you, Kosinovsky, mean that Finnish people also
>are descendands of turks? Unlike Bosnian language, Hungarian
>doesn't have any words borrowed from Turkish, maybe just a few.

 I don't think I "offended" any Hungarian (at least none of those
who I would ever want to associate with). I was, however, corrected
by one of them in a very polite private e-mail. That Hungarian
gentleman pointed out to me that Finno-Ugric languages are not
a subset of Turkic, as I had previously believed, but an equal
branch of the Altai languages supergroup.

>Hungarians are white people, not some turks. I speak a few words
>of Estonian and Finnish and I did found similarities between
>Finnish (Suomi) and Hungarian languages.

 This, however, is more racialist nonsence. I already pointed out that
Turkic is a linguistic classification encompassing a rather wide
racial spectrum. As for being "purely white", I doubt that this was
achievable for ANY group living in Far East Asia past the year 2000 BCE
or so. And since these groups had overran Europe continuously for many
centuries after the decline of Roman Empire, there aren't too many
"purely white" people it today's world period. It is furthermore
doubtful that Mr. Peterson belongs to this very exclusive "pure white"
club.

Greg Kosinovsky

Hi All,

I have a friend who has been back in the US for about 7 months after living
in Budapest for a year and a half, and she really misses p‡linka (I hope
the spelling is correct).  Does anyone know where I can find some in
Manhattan?  If you have a favorite, please recommend it.  Thanks in
advance.

John

> =========================================================================
John Corradi                      |   The opinions expressed above are my 
The Rockefeller University        |   own and do not represent...blah,
   |   blah, blah.
> =========================================================================

I have made a list of "Famous Hungarian Americans and Hungarian Noble 
Prize Winners"  Please visit!  It is accessible from my homepage below! 
This Egorov lady is pretty funny. Does she mean if I am of the Jewish 
faith, I am not American or Hungarian or Israeli? Or if I am Catholic I 
can't be Hungarian?  Oh well, some people love to talk with nothing to 
say.  Check out my page!
-- 
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/

In article >,
Ivan Marinov  > wrote:
| Istvan Szucs wrote:
| 
| > Pro death?
| > Whose death are they for?
| 
| Death of unborn children.
| 
| -- 
Without getting ito the issue of whether unborn children is
a contradiction of terms, I don't know any organization that
is for the daeth of fetuses. Have you ever seen ads that
encourage abortions? I've seen enjoy coca cola, and have you
had your break today, but I've never seen - enjoy - or have
an abortion, or have you had your abortion this year.

Istvan

In article >,  > wrote:
>Maria Egorov > wrote:
>>My limited time forced me to ignore spelling.
>Why not ignore writing as well?
>Panonescu

The great abundance and nature of her spelling and punctuation errors show that
it is not ignorance, but inability. Same on writing.
GK

In article >,
    (Peter A. Nemenyi) wrote:
>Nezd az egyertelmu, hogy Szaszvari provokal  csakugy, mint azon kollegaja
>aki a Forumon utotte fel tanyajat azonos frequencian mocskolodva. 
>Szaszvari nagyon jol tudja, hogy itt nem egy szemelyrol, esetemben rollam
>van szo, hanem egy aljas eljarasrol. De vagy az erthetetlent adja, vagy 
>megmagyarazni igyekszik a megmagyarazhatatlant. Ez persze nagyon jo, mert
>igy egy komoly tomeg elott leplezi le magat az az alliberalis bagazs, amely 
>toleranciat papol, de vagy feljelentget, vagy tapsol, aszisztal hozza!
>Kulonben  azon patkanyok akiket emlitettel, hivatalosan perelhetok, es 
>ez egy elkepzelheto opcio. :-)
>

Provokal a fene. Egyszeruen elmeleti problemaim vannak. (Ez annak a finom 
megfogalmazasa, hogy nem szeretem, ha az emberek meg annyira sem gondolkodnak, 
meint azt lehetosegeik megengednek. Emlitett lehetosegek persze lehetnek 
felettebb szukosek)

Modellezzuk most az egyszerubb vizsgalat kedveert NPA sztorijat.
1. Valaki artani akar NPA-nak, ezert feljelenti.
2. NPA munkaltatoja az igazolatlan vadak alapjan elbocsatja NPA-t
3. NPA nem kuzd jogaiert mert azokat nem latja ervenyesithetoeknek, megha 
igaza is van.
Most jon a hiba:
4. NPA vezetesevel mindenki arra koncentral, hogy kik voltak a feljelentok.

Deklaracio:
Feljelenteni csunya dolog. Feljelentessel vitakat elintezni aljassag.
A feljelentgeto torzult szemelyisegu ember.

Azonban:
A feljelentokre koncentralva szemelol tevesztjuk a fo bajt. Az a renszer ahol 
bizonyitatlan feljelentesek alapjan, az illetonek meg vedekezesre sem adva 
lehetoseget, valakit megbuntetnek, ROSSZ.

Ha csupan a feljelentoket okoljuk, elfogadjuk azt az aldatlan allapotot, hogy 
a rendszer:
1. torvenyszegesre kenyszerit/csabit (nem szabad a computert magancelra 
hasznalni, de ajanljak a webet, es mindenki hasznalja)
2. felelemben tart (mindenki torvenyt szeg de csak neha buntetnek)
3. igazsagtalan (veletlenszeruen buntet, ki nem mondott valodi indokok 
alapjan, azaz megint csak felelemben tart)
4. hianyossagai folytan eszkozt ad arto szandeku emberek kezebe, hogy artsanak 
(a feljelentest kritika nelkul elfogadjak), azaz kontraszelektal.

Ezek az ismervek, rossz rendszerekre (diktaturak) illenek, es fedik a tortenet 
lenyeget. Ezert mondom ujra meg ujra, a feljelento csunya ember, de kizarolag 
a feljelentokkel foglalkozni veszelyes dolog mert elfedi az igazi bajokat.

Rossz emberek mindig lesznek es csak jo rendszerek vedhetnek meg toluk.

Szemelyes pelda:
Svajcban dolgozom, de statuszom nem engedi meg, hogy felesegem is itt legyen. 
Itt volt. Feljelentettek (szemelyes okbol). Felesegemet ket evre kitiltottak 
Svajcbol.
Tudom ki a feljelento (rendorseg bevallotta), de nem haragszom ra.

Haragszom viszont az aldatlan szabalyokra, melyek ilyen felemas, 
torvenytelensegre csabito helyzetet teremtenek.

Svajc kicsi orszag megis tobbszazezren vannak itt illegalisan. Soha senki nem 
zavarja az illegalisan itt tartozkodokat. Ha feljelentik oket a kirugas minden 
vizsgalat nelkul automatikus.  
A torvenyek tehat egy eszkozt adnak a svajciak kezebe, hogy felelemben 
tartsanak masokat es konnyeden elbanjanak veluk.

Ez itt a baj, es nem az az idetlen kislany aki egy felrertes folytan feltekeny 
lett es egybol feljelentette nejemet.

Uraim, hasznaljuk az agyunkat!

Ezennel ezt a temat befejeztem, megyek vitorlazni, az internet meg le van...


Szaszvari Peter
(http://iap11.ethz.ch/users/szp/szp.htm)

In article >,
Ivan Marinov  > wrote:
| Mecsery wrote:
| 
| > BOYCOTT OF ALL COCA-COLA PRODUCTS
| 
| Christians are already boycotting Coca Cola, because Coca Cola is one of 
| sponsors of Planned Parenthood - a prominent PRO-DEATH organization in 
| the USA.
| 
Pro death?
Whose death are they for?

Istvan

Allitolag az Olimpiasz unnepi megnyitojan a magyar csapatot azert
     nem mutattak, mert nem is volt ott - lerobban az autobusz es lekeste a 
     ceremoniat! Ezt az informaciot Magyarorszagrol kaptam. 
     Nagyszeruen szerepeltek a melluszok es megszuletet az elso magyar 
     aranyerem: 200 m - 1. Rozsa (magyar), 2. Guttler (magyar).
     Sajnos, a kardcsapatunk a dontoben kikapott a regi mumustol- 
     Oroszorszagtol. 
     Nem is allunk olyan rosszul: 1 arany; 1 ezust es  5 bronz. Meg hatra 
     van a kajak-kenu, ottusa, vizilabda...   Drukkoljunk! f.i.

My dear Maria Egorov:

I know just as many Romanians who consider Hungarians as Gypsies as a way 
to explain why so many Hungarians inhabit Transylvania.  They evidently 
wandered there like gypsies and established Transylvania!  Interesting 
thought.  Kinda dumb, though.  About this Dacia stuff.  WHO CARES.  
Whether Dacia or Panonnia, that was then.  Transylvania was HUNGARIAN for 
a thousand years, had little trouble with her Romanian, Saxon, Jewish or 
other fellow citizens of Hungary, and established religious freedom and 
rights for her population.  Unfortunately, the Romanians can't live up to 
this respect for freedom and they cling to some ridiculous "Dacian" 
claim to Transylvania.  Imagine if the effort you put into justifying the 
occupation and annexation of Transylvania into making Romania and 
Transylvania a better place to live.  I was there; you should be 
embarrassed at your own people's condition and have compassion for the 
countless children living without hope, and in fear for being what they 
were born to be - Hungarian!

My dear Maria Egorov:

I know just as many Romanians who consider Hungarians as Gypsies as a way 
to explain why so many Hungarians inhabit Transylvania.  They evidently 
wandered there like gypsies and established Transylvania!  Interesting 
thought.  Kinda dumb, though.  About this Dacia stuff.  WHO CARES.  
Whether Dacia or Panonnia, that was then.  Transylvania was HUNGARIAN for 
a thousand years, had little trouble with her Romanian, Saxon, Jewish or 
other fellow citizens of Hungary, and established religious freedom and 
rights for her population.  Unfortunately, the Romanians can't live up to 
this respect for freedom and they cling to some ridiculous "Dacian" 
claim to Transylvania.  Imagine if the effort you put into justifying the 
occupation and annexation of Transylvania into making Romania and 
Transylvania a better place to live.  I was there; you should be 
embarrassed at your own people's condition and have compassion for the 
countless children living without hope, and in fear for being what they 
were born to be - Hungarian!

Anyone know the world ranking of the 2 Hungarian men in the Olympics?

Is Hungary returning to the world of top men's TT??

My dear Maria Egorov:

I know just as many Romanians who consider Hungarians as Gypsies as a way 
to explain why so many Hungarians inhabit Transylvania.  They evidently 
wandered there like gypsies and established Transylvania!  Interesting 
thought.  Kinda dumb, though.  About this Dacia stuff.  WHO CARES.  
Whether Dacia or Panonnia, that was then.  Transylvania was HUNGARIAN for 
a thousand years, had little trouble with her Romanian, Saxon, Jewish or 
other fellow citizens of Hungary, and established religious freedom and 
rights for her population.  Unfortunately, the Romanians can't live up to 
this respect for freedom and they cling to some ridiculous "Dacian" 
claim to Transylvania.  Imagine if the effort you put into justifying the 
occupation and annexation of Transylvania into making Romania and 
Transylvania a better place to live.  I was there; you should be 
embarrassed at your own people's condition and have compassion for the 
countless children living without hope, and in fear for being what they 
were born to be - Hungarian!

Please check out my "Hungarian Nobel Prize Winners and Famous Hungarian 
Americans" which is accessible from my homepage! These pages include 
photos and biographical information of some of "Our Illustrious 
Scientists." 

Let me know what you think - there's a lot of stuff.
-- 
Visit my homepage!  http://mason.gmu.edu/~achassel/

In article >,  (Davi
d Gaudine) writes:
>In article >,  > wrote:
>>In article >, "Hans-Henrik T. Ohlsen" >
 writes:

>>>The definition of military action the way I usually see it defined
>>>requires the warring parties to wear a uniform when doing so. I have yet
>>>to see any acceptance of using eg. jeans and a T-shirt as a legitimate
>>>uniform. The least acceptable in that connection is using an arm band
>>>with the colors and/or symbol of those you fight for. It's when somebody
>>>"fight" covertly that it's usually termed terrorism, especially when the
>>>victims of such "fights" are innocent civilians.

>>Uniforms? Civilians? Come on.. War is terrorism where _both_ parties 
>>openly declare their willingness to fight. That's all. 

>In war both parties can fight each other, i.e. bomb each other's military
>bases and so on.  Terrorists hide among the civilian population, giving
>no target for retaliation.

A war is a war is a war. A civilian becomes a soldier the moment s/he picks
up a gun. Many wars in history have been won by such 'civilians'. Do not
try to dignify wars by saying that soldiers somehow acquire a license to
kill just because they wear uniforms.

>In an all-out war, sooner or later somebody will probably win.  Terrorists
>just cause senseless death and destruction, and are unlikely to ever
>accomplish anything for their own people.  Other than making them look bad.

What kind of senseless death? As in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Wake up! _War_
is senseless. It makes as much sense when people put on uniforms as it
does when they dont.. Difference between war and terrorism is on paper.

Istvan Szucs wrote:

> Without getting ito the issue of whether unborn children is
> a contradiction of terms, I don't know any organization that
> is for the daeth of fetuses. Have you ever seen ads that
> encourage abortions? I've seen enjoy coca cola, and have you
> had your break today, but I've never seen - enjoy - or have
> an abortion, or have you had your abortion this year.

There are many organizations that make aggressive propaganda in favor 
of abortions. They don't have ads as Coca Cola has, but this doesn't 
change anything. These movements are responsible for millions of mass 
exterminated unborn persons every year. They call themselves ignorantly  
"pro-choice", (Hitler, Lenin and Stalin wasn't smart enough to invent 
this absurd terminology...), but we Christians prefer calling them with 
their real name: "pro-death".

-- 

---
Ivan Marinov - Maximilian Valenski
---



---
"The Western world has lost its civil courage, both as a whole, 
and separately, in each country, each government, each 
political party, and of course in the UN. I have spent all my 
life under a Communist regime, and I will tell you that a society 
without any objective scale is a terrible one indeed. But a 
society with no other scale but the legal one is not quite worthy
of man either." (A. I. Solzhenitsyn)
---